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"It's like Altman's The Long Goodbye, but amped up to 11."
This makes me a little bit intrigued. I'm not a PTA fan at all (and really only liked The Master for the performances) so I've not been particularly excited for this movie, but that quote gives me a glimmer of hope.



Considering that even what I think is PTA's weakest (Punch-Drunk Love) is better than anything I've seen from Altman, that quote kinda worries me.



Considering that even what I think is PTA's weakest (Punch-Drunk Love) is better than anything I've seen from Altman, that quote kinda worries me.
What have you seen from Altman and what don't you like about it?
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Cobpyth's Movie Log ~ 2019



Admittedly, I've not seen much from him. Only seen three of his movies so far, 3 Women, The Long Goodbye, and MASH, and I would say that I prefer them in that order. I didn't care at all for The Long Goodbye and MASH but I did like some of the themes in 3 Women. But still, the film itself was way too abstract for me to fully connect with it.

One thing I didn't like about all three movies though is the way he filmed them. They just didn't impress me from a visual point of view. To me, it looks like he doesn't pay enough attention to detail. I know he has his fanbase here but I'm afraid I'll never be a fan.



How can you say you'll never be a fan after 3 films? First of all MASH is disliked by a lot of people, so no surprises there. The other two, 3 Women is not very Altman like really, but is very good.

The Long Goodbye, I'm not sure why you don't like it, but okay. And doesn't pay enough attention to detail? His movies are filled with too much detail if anything. Camera is always moving, people are always talking, it's realistic. I'd consider his cinematography some of the best ever, it's intelligent and real, we rove around everywhere, listening into people like we're there, his use of overlapping dialogue is superb. His camerawork doesn't seem forced or cinematic, but real, PTA draws attention to himself with a lot of his work (although I love it), with Altman it's natural, and it's not like he's trying to impress anyone.

Nashville and Short Cuts pretty much inspired Magnolia and Boogie Nights. I appreciate them all, Altman is possibly PTA's favourite director, and the influence is clear. I know you haven't watched those films but i's annoying when people praise PTA for such stuff when it wouldn't exist without Altman.

You haven't seen: Nashville, Short Cuts, McCabe & Mrs. Miller, Gosford Park, The Player and much more. I don't know why you seem so determined in your opinion and have to remind us of it every time as if you're proud of not liking Altman. It makes me sad



Well, he doesn't like Chinatown either, so it kind of makes sense that he doesn't like The Long Goodbye.

My favorite Altman film still is The Player and that's truly one of the coolest visual movies ever, in my opinion, so if you're looking for something in which the director is more obviously "present" so to speak, you could try that one. The same can probably be said about Short Cuts. That's also very much a "director's movie" in a sense.

Daniel is right, though. You can't just disrespect Altman and be a PTA fan. That's just hypocritical.



How can you say you'll never be a fan after 3 films?
Because let's face it, if I didn't like three of his movies, the chances that I will become a fan are very slim. The rest of his filmography isn't on the list of my priorities at the moment so I don't really look forward that much to the rest of his films. I've always been interested in The Player though, so maybe I will like that. Nashville I will also check out pretty soon.

And doesn't pay enough attention to detail? His movies are filled with too much detail if anything. Camera is always moving, people are always talking, it's realistic. I'd consider his cinematography some of the best ever, it's intelligent and real
All of what you just said is true especially when I think of MASH, but it's unnecessary detail, not artistic detail, imo. Which is probably what I admire the most in movies.

His camerawork doesn't seem forced or cinematic, but real, PTA draws attention to himself with a lot of his work (although I love it), with Altman it's natural, and it's not like he's trying to impress anyone.
And this is what I admire the most in filmmakers. I love it when directors draw attention to themselves because it's a sign of their confidence and talent. I admitted myself that three movies are definitely not enough, but so far I've not seen a single sequence from his works that comes close to the impressive long take of Boogie Nights for example, or the visuals of There Will Be Blood. Magnolia might be his Short Cuts, but Boogie Nights is his Goodfellas and There Will Be Blood is his 2001/The Shining, imo, which is why I think Scorsese and Kubrick are two of his biggest influences and not Altman. Even The Master had a very Kubrick feel to it.

I know you haven't watched those films but i's annoying when people praise PTA for such stuff when it wouldn't exist without Altman.
I praise PTA for his achievements, and when I comment on Altman I comment only on his works. But if PTA has already achieved more than Altman ever did (which I think he did), then what's wrong with considering his work as superior? I know that liking Altman is less mainstream, but there is a reason why PTA receives the praise he does.



Well, he doesn't like Chinatown either, so it kind of makes sense that he doesn't like The Long Goodbye.
Maybe because they're both pretty slow and can get quite dull at times. Yeah, I can definitely see the connection.

Daniel is right, though. You can't just disrespect Altman and be a PTA fan. That's just hypocritical.
Who said I disrespected him? There isn't a single director that I disrespect. Also I don't see how it's hypocritical if I admire one director but don't really like another, even if that director is influenced by the other.



BlueLion is the weirdest member on the forum. His favorite movie is Mulholland Drive but every other surreal film he sees he seems to hate. I don't get it.



Altman is actually one of the most confident directors I know. The Player starts with a freaking 8 minutes long tracking shot, for instance, and he always makes daring (and occasionally very funny) cuts (like in Short Cuts) and uses interesting and fluent camera movements to create a delightful sense of space (probably most notably in The Player and Gosford Park). He had the whole range of filmmaking tricks in him and used them in refreshing and appropriate ways throughout his filmography.

Altman's cinematic vision is one of the most recognized in American cinema (especially amongst cinephiles) and rightfully so! There's also a reason for that.

I do believe Altman films (much like PTA films) need more of an "acquired taste" than for instance the films of Scorsese, Tarantino or Kubrick, which all have a much more "bombastic" and noticeable style to them (even for people who don't often watch movies). Once you get into Altman's way of storytelling, though, the enjoyment is boundless! I praise myself very lucky that I was immediately able to grasp what was so special about him as a filmmaker after the very first Altman film I watched (which was Gosford Park).

Besides all that, I do think PTA has it in him to become even "greater" than Altman was and I don't think it's inappropriate to call him superior already (even though I wouldn't say that myself just yet).



Maybe because they're both pretty slow and can get quite dull at times. Yeah, I can definitely see the connection.
It's your loss, man. I don't think they're slow at all. They're both wonderfully atmospheric neo-noir pictures, each in their own unique way.



BlueLion is the weirdest member on the forum. His favorite movie is Mulholland Drive but every other surreal film he sees he seems to hate. I don't get it.
And which surreal films would those be?



Un Chien Andalou (which you called "artsy fartsy crap"), Last Year at Marienbad, Primer, Under the Skin. Those are the only ones I can think of right now, but I know there are more.



Un Chien Andalou (which you called "artsy fartsy crap")
Well. that's a short. I probably shouldn't have even rated it.

Primer, Under the Skin
I gave both those films
ratings. That doesn't even mean I dislike them, let alone hate them.

Last Year at Marienbad bored me out of my skull, but even that I wouldn't say I truly hated. Just wasn't my cup of tea. I can't like every movie though just because they're surreal. Just like I can't love all action movies, all horrors, westerns, and so on.



I usually give a new director three to four chances to make some kind of impression on me. And I try and go with the films they are most noted for. If all those chances fail or underwhelm I generally move on in another direction. Blue Lion is not unusual in that regard.

Then again, for the sake of full disclosure, I am not an Altman fan either.



i have a soft spot for Altman since he was the first director i ever started exploring in depth, but i don't love him as much as i used to. i like PTA too, but i think i might respect Altman a bit more, just because Altman is far more original. most of PTA's films borrow a lot from other films, with the possible exception of The Master. at his worst he's incredibly self-indulgent and it just seems like he's trying to show-off his (admittedly impressive) ability, but Altman always feels far more natural in his abilities. i do think The Master is better than anything Altman ever did though.



I usually give a new director three to four chances to make some kind of impression on me. And I try and go with the films they are most noted for. If all those chances fail or underwhelm I generally move on in another direction. Blue Lion is not unusual in that regard.
I think truly great directors are worth exploring further, even if the first three films aren't particularly your thing. Tastes can evolve and one great film experience is enough to finally make someone see "the light".

I truly believe that there are films and directors that could be loved by everyone, if they just watched it with the right mindset, in the right mood and with the right understanding. You shouldn't ignore a widely praised filmography of a certain director just because you didn't like three movies of his.

At least, that's my humble opinion.