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Hello all here I am, The Prestige, and I have exploaded onto this seemingly decent looking film forum. Now, I hope I don't get into hot water if i'm posting my introduction on the wrong forum...I just didn't see any introduction forums around here. So do feel free to redirect me

Anyways, I won't beat around the bush...I LOVE films, cinema, dvds etc. Whatever format, films are incredible mediums for storytelling, and the magic is films can make you forget just how important they are.

Now, i'm sure i'm gonna get many that disagree, but I am actually surprised at the amount of 5 star films there are in film history. People have forgotten the importance of the five star feature and now use it to encapsulate nostalgic films that they enjoyed watching when they were younger. Notable examples are Jaws, ET, Star Wars, etc.

I hate to break it to everyone but there are only TWO five star films in cinema history. That might be extreme, but it's the truth. A five star film should be rare, but it ain't and is extremely overused nowadays which I feel gives a lot of films less importance. ):

Most films are usually 3 to 3 1/2 stars. But there are quite a few films that are ALMOST five stars and I will discuss them sometime in the future. Oh, and if you're all wondering, yes, Nolan's The Prestige is almost five stars.

The aforementioned five star films are Orson Welles' Citizen Kane and Christopher Nolan's Memento. I consider these movies to be both a transcendment and evolution in the cinematic industry.

Anyawys, I hope you all don't mind me being here and speaking my mind. And I hope we can all have some fantastic discussions/debates in the near future!



A system of cells interlinked
Welcome to Mofo

That said....


Memento? An OK film, where structure is concerned, but, aside from that, when looked at in chronological order, the story is pretty uninteresting. On repeated viewings, the film loses it's luster, fast. I find myself looking for something else to do, like, watch Lynch's Mulholland Drive, which, as far as the language of visceral cinema is concerned, has no equal, IMO. Memento is a solid 3 stars, but, with people like the rigid and mostly wooden Carry-Anne ButterFace in the cast, I can;t look at it as a seminal work.

Five star films:

Plenty of Five Star films out there, for sure! I mean, how can one say that about Memento, while neglecting such amazing works as The Godfather, 12 Angry Men, and Blade Runner?
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Hello and welcome to Mofo …
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The Fabulous Sausage Man
Erm...okay. I agree that most films that we would watch in a year would be 3 to 3.5 stars. Saying that there are only two five-star films is odd, but I'll accept your opinion for that. But I find your statement that Memento is a true five-star film to be somewhat baffling. Telling your story backwards is a neat trick, but I don't think it should be called a 'transcendant' piece for that. It's a very entertaining movie but I don't think it's in the same league as the likes of De Sica, Ozu, Cassavetes, Mizoguchi, Fellini, Kurosawa, Bresson and Welles...



The People's Republic of Clogher
This place seems to be the hang out for the 'Memento isn't really that great, especially from the 2nd viewing onwards' gang.

I must say that this fills me with joy as I, Tacitus, President of MABF (Memento is an Average Film Backwards), look forward to using your membership fees for bringing our organization's concerns to pseuds the world over!

Welcome to Mofo, The Prestige, we need your input - though it's been almost a day since your only post I hope you see that we're trenchant in our Cinematic views and, as you can see here, most of us expand on them in a straightforward and good-natured way.

Post often!

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"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how the Tatty 100 is done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves." - Brendan Behan



Hello all!

I'm very sorry I haven't posted since yesterday, my net wasn't working.

I appreciate the responses thus far, and I knew that there would be some detractors of Memento. I think that those who are saying that the film loses it's appeal if watched chronologically or on repeated viewings really don't understand the true nature of the films magic.

What winds me up most is when people say that 'oh, Memento is a thriller with a structure gimmick'. Erm, the film's reverse narrative structure is an important element in the film and is unique not because it's a bit of pretentious random Pulp Fiction style narrative fracturing, but because it serves an IMPORTANT purpose to the story.

Nolan's wasn't just trying to use a gimmick, but he used it in order for us, the spectators, to go through what the protagonist (Leonard Shelby), goes through. Don't you see that by using this structure we experience Lenny's state of confusion, ambiguity and and doubtlessness. Like Lenny, we see the EFFECTS before the CAUSES of the plot.

That's where the film's genius lies. And just because you know what's going to happen the next time you watch the film, doesn't mean it loses it's appeal. You might as well say the same about every other film then, innit. I'm quite positive the film grabbed you guy's attention and left you on the edge of you're seat the first time, right?

I think you guys underrate it big time. Oh, and being a film student, I have seen MANY films, cheif.



Honestly, how many films can you guys say has such a strong relationship with it's audience, and then some? It just seems like you guys are nit picking. I mean, it's an opinion and it's appreciated, but I just think you guys need to look deeper into the movie. Watch it again. Oh, and while you guys are at it, watch Ang Lee's incredibly underrated Hulk. Four star film that might be remembered as a classic one day.



What winds me up most is when people say that 'oh, Memento is a thriller with a structure gimmick'. Erm, the film's reverse narrative structure is an important element in the film and is unique not because it's a bit of pretentious random Pulp Fiction style narrative fracturing, but because it serves an IMPORTANT purpose to the story.

Nolan's wasn't just trying to use a gimmick, but he used it in order for us, the spectators, to go through what the protagonist (Leonard Shelby), goes through. Don't you see that by using this structure we experience Lenny's state of confusion, ambiguity and and doubtlessness. Like Lenny, we see the EFFECTS before the CAUSES of the plot.
While I still lean towards the "Memento is very good but isn't great on repeat viewings and is not a masterpiece" camp, this is a fine point. The reverse-chronology has a very specific, very sensible reason for existing, to the point at which, as much as it may seem like a gimmick from afar, it clearly isn't.

I particularly like the way you phrased that last point, in that we "see the EFFECTS before the CAUSES." This relates to my favorite part of the movie: when he says "okay, what am I doing? I'm chasing this guy. *gunshot fired towards him*. No, he's chasing me."

That said, and as much as it pains me to admit this about a film I think is at least very good, I do think there are a few significant plot holes. Not the kind that would effect an initial viewing, mind you (which is an important distinction in my mind), but certainly things I can't make sense of upon further reflection. I'd elaborate, but it's been said before and you probably know what sorts of things I'm referring to, anyway.

Anyway, way to roll with the punches.



The People's Republic of Clogher
Well, I own Memento, all 3 flippin' discs of it (and Hulk as well, actually) and while yes, the conceit is rather admirable, my interest dwindled so much on subsequent viewings that I stand by my earlier comments...steadfastly.

That said, I think Chris Nolan is a director with a great deal of promise though personally I don't think he's bettered Insomnia, a film which I have a deal of affection for.

Just off the top of my baldy head I can think of The Usual Suspects as a recent mainstream movie which has a strong relationship with it's audience (I'm sure there are plenty more but, for reasons which I care only to indulge with my pill bottle, I've really not got the inclination to delve deeper right now) and I think it's a much better film, gimmick and all, than Memento...



Well Yoda and Tacitus, thank you loads for the replies.

Yoda, yeah, I know the plotholes that you might be referring too, and I can assure you that I had the exact same thoughts even when I watched the film a third time (i've seen this film 11 times already), however, I did some intensive thinking and it all makes sense when you really think about in indepth. Thinking about the plotholes, I was hesitant to give the film 5 stars at first, but then it made sense.

Tacitus, i'm glad you've got decent films in your collection, mate. Anyone who has Hulk and Memento already has a fairly decent DVD collection, specially if you've got the prestigeous 3 disc set of Memento But I still think you need to reevaluate your feelings on Memento. I have not, and will never watch the film in chronological order because then you're not really watching the final product, aren't you? You would be watching a reediting of a movie.

The Usual Suspects is a movie I like to call 'The Definition Of A Four Star Film' in that it's a film noirish blackly comic old shaggy dog of a tale with a VERY cool twist where repeat viewings compliment it...however, unlike Memento, it's not intimate and lacks a certain disturbing profoundness that Memento is able to convey.



The People's Republic of Clogher

Tacitus, i'm glad you've got decent films in your collection, mate. Anyone who has Hulk and Memento already has a fairly decent DVD collection, specially if you've got the prestigeous 3 disc set of Memento But I still think you need to reevaluate your feelings on Memento. I have not, and will never watch the film in chronological order because then you're not really watching the final product, aren't you? You would be watching a reediting of a movie.
Apart from the first 20 minutes, I've never actually seen Memento in chronological order, even though it's hiding on my DVD - partly for the reasons you mention and partly because, well, it's just an average movie backwards (or frontwards, I'm confused now) innit?

Seriously though, I think you've got all the ammo to enjoy MoFo so head over to your user control panel and scribble down your 10 favourite films.



Just done it, mate. It actually took me almost an hour to think of my top 10, but hey, they are all there.