Originally Posted by Sedai
Not quite detective? These films are absolutely, completely, detective films. Both leads are private eyes by trade, and go about detecting and solving a mystery. In fact, Kiss me deadly is considered one of the definitive detective noirs of the original noir cycle, and is used as an example of hard boiled detective noir in many texts, including stuff like The Film Noir Reader and Christopher's Somewhere in the Night. Why would they be considered not-quite detective? The long Goodbye was Altman's stab at detective-noir, and a damn good one. it is, and always has been, a detective film.
Well, I'm not the author of
The Film Noir Reader, and perhaps because of that I'd consider neither to be quite a Hardboiled Suspense Thriller.
Kiss Me Deadly (1955) has a decidedly Sci-fi bent, and besides explodes the conventions of Classical era (I'd say 1930 to, surprise, 55) Detective Thrillers much like
Touch of Evil may have done for Noir. The whole film is about how the mythology of the hardboiled he-man is now obsolete, and how fists and grit just aren't enough to solve problems anymore.
The Long Goodbye (1973) similarly dodges the conventions of the Detective Thriller genre (I'd say it's more comedy, but that's me). I mean, Elliot Gould's (A hardboiled
ELLIOT GOULD!?) unsuave, unsexual Phillip Marlowe is nothing like the Bogie of yesteryear. His most commonly occuring line is after all "It's
okay with me," something any previous Marlowe incarnations probably would have had gay sex onscreen before uttering. We watch him buy
catfood for Christ's sake!
Really they're very similar movies in this regard. One ushers in the Post-classical era of the genre, and the other probably jumps the gun on the Postmodern era. I actually wrote a paper on just that.
Anyway, it should also be kept in mind that I never said that either movie was
not a detective thriller, just not quite. I meant specifically in the Classical sense of the genre; but it was just an offhand comment.