What do you feel is the biggest problem with modern entertainment

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So you are talking about a 100 year sample size...I would say the three best periods of time in American film (30's, 70's, and 90's) all came from post recession/depression times
The 30's and 70's were post recession/depression times? Strong emphasis of my question mark on that "post".

ETA: That isn't rhetorical, since those two decades are strongly associated with poor economic times, I'm trying to figure out what you meant in your timeline.



Simple. Political correctness or the new phrase for it Woke. This is why people have gravitated to low budget podcasts. People can feel agendas in entertainment, there are no agendas in these low budget podcast just entertainment. 90% of the film and shows created right now are just fleeting because of these agendas. I mean the comedy movie is practically dead because of it right now. I think the film/entertainment industry is going have to hit a rock bottom soon in order to come out of it. We have before after the 60s and 80s but this feels like a deeper hole to dig out of.

Since 2020 I haven't had much hope for anything out of Hollywood minus Better Call Saul (it's really good because it's managed to keep away from woke stuff.) I tell you what though Everything Everywhere All At Once is the first hope I've had for film since 2020. If it wins a bunch of Oscars I think we could be headed in the right direction. Entertain us don't preach.
Good points! If you haven't seen the 4 season series, Goliath (2016-2021), although it's made in Hollywood it is non PC, non woke. Billy Bob Thornton stars, and I'm a big fan of his. I especially enjoyed seasons 4, 2 & 1.



Simple. Political correctness or the new phrase for it Woke. This is why people have gravitated to low budget podcasts. People can feel agendas in entertainment, there are no agendas in these low budget podcast just entertainment. 90% of the film and shows created right now are just fleeting because of these agendas. I mean the comedy movie is practically dead because of it right now. I think the film/entertainment industry is going have to hit a rock bottom soon in order to come out of it. We have before after the 60s and 80s but this feels like a deeper hole to dig out of.
Nothing about this is new. Whether it's "woke" or PC or political correctness or morals and decency or censorship or whatever the current name for it is there's always somebody or some body or some committee that says what's too much or what's subversive or immoral or whatever.

Needing lots of money to make them, it's inevitable that the "sensitivities" of the people with money become a factor.....don't piss off the moneybags. It's nowhere near as stringent as the days when a male actor sitting on the bed of the female actor had to keep one foot on the floor to appease the censors.

It's also a lot looser than the days when any character who committed a crime had to be seen getting caught or when nobody could say anything bad about a church.

Nevertheless, there's always something like this going on. The criteria change, but the process doesn't. The more money that's involved, the more it will happen simply because of the financial consequences. Podcasts, indie movies, etc, have a place in all of this, but the bigger the budget, the bigger the oversight. It's always something.



A piece of local history; it's really true, just ask John Waters - Maryland had one of the last "Board of Censors" laws. Before it was abolished, the most vocal of the censors was a particularly grouchy, acerbic woman who bragged that, as a child, if she had ever asked where babies come from, she'd be beaten unmercifully. She thought that movies should reflect this.



Nothing about this is new. Whether it's "woke" or PC or political correctness or morals and decency or censorship or whatever the current name for it is there's always somebody or some body or some committee that says what's too much or what's subversive or immoral or whatever.

Needing lots of money to make them, it's inevitable that the "sensitivities" of the people with money become a factor.....don't piss off the moneybags. It's nowhere near as stringent as the days when a male actor sitting on the bed of the female actor had to keep one foot on the floor to appease the censors.

It's also a lot looser than the days when any character who committed a crime had to be seen getting caught or when nobody could say anything bad about a church.

Nevertheless, there's always something like this going on. The criteria change, but the process doesn't. The more money that's involved, the more it will happen simply because of the financial consequences. Podcasts, indie movies, etc, have a place in all of this, but the bigger the budget, the bigger the oversight. It's always something.
Oh I agree. Culture is evolving constantly. But this version of PC is absolutely choking the medium of film/tv out. It's not more evident than in Comedy movies/shows. It's on life support. I collected DVDs in my early 20s. I quit because it felt pointless with everything on streaming. Now I am glad I did. They are basically doing the equivalent of burning books. For example I have The Seinfeld series on DVD...looked on Netflix they have removed some episodes for being "problematic". Dog sh*t. I think it's only going get worse, so I've started collecting again.
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Good points! If you haven't seen the 4 season series, Goliath (2016-2021), although it's made in Hollywood it is non PC, non woke. Billy Bob Thornton stars, and I'm a big fan of his. I especially enjoyed seasons 4, 2 & 1.
Ha maybe. I've always been very picky about TV dramas. I quit House of Cards. I quit Ozarks, Homeland and many more after like a season or 2. The Law and Orders, NSI etcs don't appeal to me. I think tv drama is the hardest thing to pull off. I just start to feel the writers room in basically all these type of shows, trying to keep the story moving. Even Game Of Thrones..the first 4 seasons are some of the best entertainment put to film then it just stumbles off a cliff after they ran out of source material.

That's why I think the Breaking Bad universe is probably one of the most impressive feats in film/tv history imo. It has never made me feel the writers in the room. It feels like the characters are real and genuine. Plus it gets absolute bonus points because it's completely original and not based off an existing property. Plus going back to my point about PC/Woke it hasn't concerned it's with fitting a diversity quota, everyone feels cast perfectly not to fit some board room need. If they stick the BCS landing next month, which I have no doubt they will, it's the GOAT film property in my humble opinion.



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Simple. Political correctness or the new phrase for it Woke. This is why people have gravitated to low budget podcasts. People can feel agendas in entertainment, there are no agendas in these low budget podcast just entertainment. 90% of the film and shows created right now are just fleeting because of these agendas. I mean the comedy movie is practically dead because of it right now. I think the film/entertainment industry is going have to hit a rock bottom soon in order to come out of it. We have before after the 60s and 80s but this feels like a deeper hole to dig out of.

Since 2020 I haven't had much hope for anything out of Hollywood minus Better Call Saul (it's really good because it's managed to keep away from woke stuff.) I tell you what though Everything Everywhere All At Once is the first hope I've had for film since 2020. If it wins a bunch of Oscars I think we could be headed in the right direction. Entertain us don't preach.
I think this depends on which "low budget podcasts" you're referring to and the question of whether or not they genuinely have no agenda (which is arguably in itself an agenda of sorts, kind of like how claiming to be apolitical is technically a political stance). Besides, this does not account for podcasts that lean closer to woke than not (and how does one distinguish between low and high budgets for podcasts anyway?).

The status of the modern comedy movie does go back to earlier matters of what gets produced under the current systems due to an emphasis on four-quadrant tentpoles (which already contain enough humour to ostensibly minimise the apparent need for straight comedies). Not like smaller comedies are gone completely, but it's hard to get too upset at "wokeness" when the alternative is reactionary bullsh*t like giving Netflix stand-up specials to the likes of Gervais or Chappelle (and trying to act like Everything Everywhere All at Once is fundamentally better simply because you think that it treats its characters' racial and cultural background as irrelevant...hmm).

Good points! If you haven't seen the 4 season series, Goliath (2016-2021), although it's made in Hollywood it is non PC, non woke. Billy Bob Thornton stars, and I'm a big fan of his. I especially enjoyed seasons 4, 2 & 1.
On a related note, Doc, I've always been curious - is that really your #1 favourite movie or are you just trying to arbitrarily prove a point by choosing it?
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I think this depends on which "low budget podcasts" you're referring to and the question of whether or not they genuinely have no agenda (which is arguably in itself an agenda of sorts, kind of like how claiming to be apolitical is technically a political stance). Besides, this does not account for podcasts that lean closer to woke than not (and how does one distinguish between low and high budgets for podcasts anyway?).

The status of the modern comedy movie does go back to earlier matters of what gets produced under the current systems due to an emphasis on four-quadrant tentpoles (which already contain enough humour to ostensibly minimise the apparent need for straight comedies). Not like smaller comedies are gone completely, but it's hard to get too upset at "wokeness" when the alternative is reactionary bullsh*t like giving Netflix stand-up specials to the likes of Gervais or Chappelle (and trying to act like Everything Everywhere All at Once is fundamentally better simply because you think that it treats its characters' racial and cultural background as irrelevant...hmm).
Yeah; I mean, I remember watching an interview with Daniel Kwan where he said his ethnic pride intentionally lead him to steer into Chinese culture with Everything Everywhere, and the way it explored various facets of it with its mad dash across the multi-verse, so that culture is actually very "relevant" to the film... it just so happened to be really great entertainment at the same time, so it didn't end up feeling empty or preachy while doing so.



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Yeah, even if Crazy Rich Asians is ultimately not that good a film on its own merits, I understand that it's meant to be reflecting a sort of culture shock as its American-born protagonist has to travel to China and meet her love interest's in-laws so it's a film based on navigating and overcoming a significant difference in cultural norms and expectations. To shrug it all off as too much wokeness or whatever is just...yeah.



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I didn't think it was too woke, I just felt that it relied too much on the race of it's cast, to expect that alone, to carry the movie's cliches all the way to finish line.

Even the idea of a person marrying into a new family and having to prove themselves, feels cliched since it's been done so many times before, doesn't it?



This is what is great about foreign language film. They don't tend to have quotas or anything like that to have to abide by.

I watched a film called 'Hive' recently. From Kosovo. And every single cast member was white. That's because it's a true story, and in the story, every single person was white.

I'm all for diversity and I'm all for equality but that type of story simply wouldn't get made in Hollywood now, because of the obvious reasons. And I think that has somewhat ironically stifled the diversity of films made in the USA (and other places, mostly English language speaking)



This is what is great about foreign language film. They don't tend to have quotas or anything like that to have to abide by.

I watched a film called 'Hive' recently. From Kosovo. And every single cast member was white. That's because it's a true story, and in the story, every single person was white.

I'm all for diversity and I'm all for equality but that type of story simply wouldn't get made in Hollywood now, because of the obvious reasons. And I think that has somewhat ironically stifled the diversity of films made in the USA (and other places, mostly English language speaking)

The Northman. (And ftr, I liked The Northman).

I never saw Stonewall, but my understanding is they basically wrote out the presence of Marsha P Johnson (a black trans woman) to focus on a white, gay male.

That was based on real life events and they still changed the race to someone who was white.



The Northman. (And ftr, I liked The Northman).

I never saw Stonewall, but my understanding is they basically wrote out the presence of Marsha P Johnson (a black trans woman) to focus on a white, gay male.

That was based on real life events and they still changed the race to someone who was white.
I'm not saying diversity only happens in Hollywood. But it seems alot more prevalent.

The Northman is an American film Universal and Focus films made it.

I wonder how Schindler's List would look if they had never made it in the early nineties and instead made it now. Maybe it would be better? Who knows.



I'm not saying diversity only happens in Hollywood. But it seems alot more prevalent.

The Northman is an American film Universal and Focus films made it.

I wonder how Schindler's List would look if they had never made it in the early nineties and instead made it now. Maybe it would be better? Who knows.

Your post made it sound like you can't get American movies with predominantly or purely white casts now, even when it's a story based on true events involving a purely white demographic. My post was a counterpoint or at least a counter-example to that sentiment.

I've not watched Schindler's List in a long time (I'm honestly not a fan of Spielberg's films), so I don't know what you think would be different?



I wonder how Schindler's List would look if they had never made it in the early nineties and instead made it now. Maybe it would be better? Who knows.
Why do you think it would/could be better?



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If they made Schindler's List now they wouldn't want Schindler to be a 'white Savior' so they would change his race to Jewish or a non-white race at least.



This is what is great about foreign language film. They don't tend to have quotas or anything like that to have to abide by.

I watched a film called 'Hive' recently. From Kosovo. And every single cast member was white. That's because it's a true story, and in the story, every single person was white.

I'm all for diversity and I'm all for equality but that type of story simply wouldn't get made in Hollywood now, because of the obvious reasons. And I think that has somewhat ironically stifled the diversity of films made in the USA (and other places, mostly English language speaking)
Yes. I so wholeheartedly agree with your post and the sentiment.



If they made Schindler's List now they wouldn't want Schindler to be a 'white Savior' so they would change his race to Jewish or a non-white race at least.
I’m confused. Surely Jewish people are predominantly white? (Ethiopian Jews are black.)
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If they made Schindler's List now they wouldn't want Schindler to be a 'white Savior' so they would change his race to Jewish or a non-white race at least.
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