Well, I think all that's fine when the craft is superior. But when it's not, it's not. And Coppola's Dracula is no Suspiria.
A scary thing happened on the way to the Movie Forums - Horrorcrammers
X
User Lists
I don’t particularly value narrative more highly than other elements of filmmaking (and often value it significantly less). Craft is always at the forefront of my cinematic interests and Dracula is one of the most impressively made films I think I’ve ever seen (Citizen Kane and 2001 are a couple of others with comparable levels of virtuosity on display, albeit with stronger narratives).
I think, moreso than narrative value, the expression of an antiquated style and giving it newfound vitality and longevity becomes the point of the film. A single effect doesn’t need to serve a specific purpose because it serves the overarching, nigh allegorical meaning behind the techniques (aligning cinema with vampirism is a fun through line of the film).
I think, moreso than narrative value, the expression of an antiquated style and giving it newfound vitality and longevity becomes the point of the film. A single effect doesn’t need to serve a specific purpose because it serves the overarching, nigh allegorical meaning behind the techniques (aligning cinema with vampirism is a fun through line of the film).
And if the film were an exercise in style that took my breath away with its techniques and visuals, I might have different feelings. But there's something almost desperate about how much is happening on screen. Again, I strongly felt a lack of coherence in the film. And I think that it connects to something that was said in the video you linked. At one point one of the speakers (maybe Coppola himself) sort of waves his hands and says "It all adds to the strangeness of the film".
But putting such scattershot strangeness into a film with a very complex narrative is a bad combination. This isn't a film where I felt that the story was being told in atmosphere and feeling. It was multiple, interweaving storylines with a different technique or effect being pushed on screen every 5 minutes.
If they wanted this to be an exercise in atmosphere and technique, then they should have simplified the story, not made it more complicated and also dumber.
When someone asks “why did this happen?” in Suspiria, my honest answer is that I don’t really care because of everything else going on that’s pure cinema. Same goes for Dracula.
X
Favorite Movies
X
User Lists
So you haven't seen Argento's?
To wit, most Argento films are not Suspiria either.
To wit, most Argento films are not Suspiria either.
Yeah, I know what you said. My response was more of a “nothing is maligned at all to me it’s a great film” deal. But again, to each their own.
The craft is superior in Dracula. I can’t see anyone that makes films or is familiar with the process debating that point.
I think Coppola is capable of great craft and it may be that great craft occurred during the making of this film but the film as a whole is not.
My parallel would be that I am a guitarist and musician. If I am crafting a song, or lets just say a solo for the sake of ease, I may use good craft throughout, I may make clever nods to Jimi Hendrix, Chuck Berry, and John Coltrane, I may use perfect bends and pulsing vibrato, I may go modal for a moment over the one chord just to surprise everyone, and I may end it with a big ascending lick that is a culmination of the styles of many guitarists, eras, and genres. But that doesn't mean it's a good solo. There are guitar-wankers who will marvel at it (and I want to be clear that I am not calling YOU a wanker, but guitar-wankers are a particularly annoying lot that are applicable here) and will argue the live-long day that my "craft" was great in that solo, but if my solo didn't succeed in being coherent and cohesive then it doesn't matter. It's not good. And I've done that many times and I fully admit it. I try not to now. Coppola should have spent less time being clever and cute and maybe "crafty" if you'll allow it, and actually made a good movie. Which he did not.
Well, I wasn't trying to be snippy, I've read maligning of its third act dozens of times, in fact often enough that there's just a lot of internet nodding around how it's probably still a great movie despite it's stumbly third act. You may not malign it, but I am certainly not on an island in doing so.
X
Favorite Movies
X
User Lists
I owe Coppola's Dracula a rewatch so will hesitate to comment on it, but I do think Argento in his better movies ties his flamboyant style to a sense of narrative progression. In Suspiria we process much of this flamboyance through Jessica Harper's POV so that the style has actual value, even putting aside his strengths re: visual storytelling within individual set pieces.
__________________
X
User Lists
Hey all! If you don't know me I'm Deschain from the old Rotten Tomatoes forum and more recently the Correrieno, which just closed down.
This is a thread for everything horror and the people who love them. So welcome!
This is a thread for everything horror and the people who love them. So welcome!
I have nothing at all interesting to add to the current conversation other than to say that I prefer Suspiria over Dracula. (I do like both, though)
I am mostly just glad this thread exists.
Carry on.
So DC ends up just flipping the table.
__________________
Get working on your custom lists, people !
Get working on your custom lists, people !
X
Favorite Movies
X
User Lists
I don't know what to say about this. I hated Aquaman. I love Planet Of The Vampires. James Wan falls somewhere in the middle.
I didn't realize you posted here, Des. It's good to see another familiar face from my old RT days. I just joined a couple weeks ago.
I have nothing at all interesting to add to the current conversation other than to say that I prefer Suspiria over Dracula. (I do like both, though)
I am mostly just glad this thread exists.
Carry on.
I have nothing at all interesting to add to the current conversation other than to say that I prefer Suspiria over Dracula. (I do like both, though)
I am mostly just glad this thread exists.
Carry on.
I don't know what to say about this. I hated Aquaman. I love Planet Of The Vampires. James Wan falls somewhere in the middle.
What could possibly go wrong?
X
Favorite Movies
Do people have any thoughts on Trick or Treats (1982)? I see Captain Terror gave it a , which is much higher than most people on my Letterboxd network. Is it worth checking out?
X
User Lists
Do people have any thoughts on Trick or Treats (1982)? I see Captain Terror gave it a , which is much higher than most people on my Letterboxd network. Is it worth checking out?
__________________
Down The Rabbit Hole
Down A Dark Alley
Latest Movie Viewing: Wings (1927)
Latest Album Listened To: Honky Château, Elton John (1972)
Latest TV Show Viewed: Doctor Who
Down The Rabbit Hole
Down A Dark Alley
Latest Movie Viewing: Wings (1927)
Latest Album Listened To: Honky Château, Elton John (1972)
Latest TV Show Viewed: Doctor Who
X
Favorite Movies
X
User Lists
Do people have any thoughts on Trick or Treats (1982)? I see Captain Terror gave it a , which is much higher than most people on my Letterboxd network. Is it worth checking out?
I'd be lying if I said I remember much about the film, but here are some thoughts you can factor in--
1. When it comes to slashers, it's not uncommon for my rating to differ from the norm (sometimes higher, sometimes lower) because evidently I respond to all the wrong things. In the case of ToTs, I remember liking that it felt like a Halloween movie; the holiday, not the film series.
2. I watched this during my All-80s October. Remember how much I hated Slumber Party Massacre II? According to my LB diary, on October 20 I watched SPM 1 & 2 followed by Trick or Treats. In that context, I could've watched time-lapse footage of a dog turd and given it a higher-than-deserved rating.
I seem to remember that another esteemed member of our ranks also liked it, but I don't want to throw anybody under the bus so I'll keep them anonymous.
X
Favorite Movies
X