The MoFo Top 100 Westerns: Countdown

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Women will be your undoing, Pépé


Contrast Angel's story in The Wild Bunch with Chico's in The Magnificent Seven. Similar characters but their fates are very, very different and are as good an example as any in delineating between the Hollywood and the Revisionist Western. Just in the casting of these two characters Chico is played by Horst Buchholz, a German, while Angel is played by Jaime Sánchez, a Puerto Rican. Both characters act impetuously but Angel's is a tragic tale and can be seen as a metaphor for what revolutions or any conflicts do to young, idealistic men while Chico's journey is a straight fantasy where he gets the girl and finds a home.

That is the kind of demythologizing Peckinpah was doing that critics and those of us who love it respond to so strongly and that the John Waynes of the world find troubling.
VERY well said
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The Wild Bunch was one of the first few movies that I watched for this countdown because it aired on one of the cable movie channels shortly after this countdown was announced. It was too violent for me, so it never had a chance at making my list, but it was one of the movies that helped me figure out which western movies to watch, and which movies to avoid, to try to come up with a respectable list, rather than having a bunch of western musicals and comedies on my list. (I also finally figured out where the name Holden Pike came from.)
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The Wild Bunch was one of the first few movies that I watched for this countdown because it aired on one of the cable movie channels shortly after this countdown was announced. It was too violent for me, so it never had a chance at making my list...
Monty Python did a sketch spoofing Peckinpah entitled "Sam Peckinpah's 'Salad Days'" it pretty much sums up the same point. (Wish I could provide a clip, but all clips have been taken down).
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You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.
Monty Python did a sketch spoofing Peckinpah entitled "Sam Peckinpah's 'Salad Days'" it pretty much sums up the same point. (Wish I could provide a clip, but all clips have been taken down).

I'm not much of a Monty Python fan either.



All good people are asleep and dreaming.


Contrast Angel's story in The Wild Bunch with Chico's in The Magnificent Seven. Similar characters but their fates are very, very different and are as good an example as any in delineating between the Hollywood and the Revisionist Western. Just in the casting of these two characters Chico is played by Horst Buchholz, a German, while Angel is played by Jaime Sánchez, a Puerto Rican. Both characters act impetuously but Angel's is a tragic tale and can be seen as a metaphor for what revolutions or any conflicts do to young, idealistic men while Chico's journey is a straight fantasy where he gets the girl and finds a home.

That is the kind of demythologizing Peckinpah was doing that critics and those of us who love it respond to so strongly and that the John Waynes of the world find troubling.
...and why cast Horst Buchholz period. He just about ruins One, Two, Three.

Trivia from IMDb


...In James Cagney's autobiography, he says that Horst Buchholz was the only actor he really hated working with because he was uncooperative and tried all kinds of scene-stealing moves, which Cagney depended on Billy Wilder to correct. Had Wilder not firmly directed Buchholz, Cagney said that he "was going to knock Buchholz on his ass, which at several points I would have been very happy to do".




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“When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.”

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is John Ford’s fourth film on the countdown (#59 She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, #44 My Darling Clementine, #23 Stagecoach). It was not quite his last Western – he would work on one of the segments of How the West Was Won and officially end his reign with Cheyenne Autumn – nor was it his last film with John Wayne as they would pair one last time for the lighter Donovan’s Reef. But it sure FEELS like his farewell to the genre that made him most famous. The story is told in flashback. Senator Ransom Stoddard and his wife (Jimmy Stewart and Vera Miles) return to the town they helped forge for the funeral of an old friend (Wayne). The local paper asks for an interview. Why exactly would a famous politician come back for this quiet rancher, and what about the old rumors that the Senator once killed a man? He tells his story of coming into town to form a law practice ahead of the territory’s burgeoning statehood and how he ran afoul of local ne'er-do-well Liberty Valance (Lee Marvin). The resulting conclusion about facts and legends seem to fit not just the story but the very relation between the history of westward expansion and the cinematic legends they inspire. An all star supporting cast including some of Ford’s stable of Andy Devine, Edmond O'Brien, John Carradine, Woody Strode, Strother Martin, and Lee Van Cleef and a jaunty, mighty good theme song by Gene Pitney add to the classic farewell feeling.

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance was on thirty ballots with top ten placements of a first, a second, three third, two fourth, three fifth, a seventh, and three eighth place votes for twenty-seven more total points than The Wild Bunch.




The Sons of Katie Elder, North to Alaska, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, The Shootist, Red River, The Cowboys, El Dorado, True Grit, Stagecoach, Rio
Bravo, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, Two Mules for Sister Sara, Pale Rider, High Plains Drifter, For a Few Dollars More, A Fistful of Dollars

and The Outlaw Josey Wales





You should know by now I am a much bigger fan of the Revisionist Westerns than the boilerplate classics from the likes of John Ford, but The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is the one Ford/Wayne Western I truly love. That Jimmy Stewart is one of my favorite movie stars and I love Lee Marvin helps, but I suspect it’s that there are no depictions of Native Americans in this one that may ultimately seal the deal for me. Ford tried to make amends a bit with Cheyenne Autumn, but the mostly one-dimensional use of Injuns as the antagonists in the likes of Stagecoach, the Cavalry trilogy, and The Searchers never sat well with me as a kid and is borderline appalling now. And as much as I dislike Wayne as a performer and especially as a human being his turn here is pretty darn good, getting to play some regret and pain along with his smirking bravado. It’s a good flick and I had it at fifteen on my ballot.

HOLDEN PIKE'S LIST
3. The Wild Bunch (#9)
4. McCabe & Mrs. Miller (#17)
5. Little Big Man (#38)
6. The Ox-Bow Incident (#19)
7. The Ballad of Cable Hogue (#83)
9. Dead Man (#26)
10. The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada (#52)
11. Lonely Are the Brave (#104)
12. The Great Silence (#34)
13. My Name is Nobody (#79)
14. The Grey Fox (#66)
15. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (#8)
16. Hombre (#88)
17. The Big Country (#27)
18. Pursued (#73)
19. Jeremiah Johnson (#37)
20. The Outlaw Josey Wales (#13)
21. One-Eyed Jacks (#32)
23. The Professionals (#45)
24. The Revenant (#25)
25. Support Your Local Sheriff! (#89)



Well I was off by 1, anyways happy Liberty Valance didn't make the top five it didn't crack my top 25, I don't think it would have broken my top 50 I just personally didn't care for it.


Wild Bunch was my 11th pick



I happily joined the 29 others with The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance on my personal ballot.

Seen: 58/93
My list:  

Faildictions (yee-haw version 1.12):
7. The Fighting Seventh



#24 on my list. It's a good one, I remember liking it a lot. I'm not that big into John Wayne, but I thought he and Stewart gelled well on screen.



The Wild Bunch is a super movie that really is about old (or growing old ex-soldiers) now taking to robbery, and the dying of their ways and the dying of the Old West and dozens of other themes. It's almost a perfect movie. The perfect supporting cast is dynamite but the leading four are the glue. I like that the movie shows how friends can sometimes be douche bags to one another, like in the scene where Pike has trouble getting on his horse and his friends are mocking him, but then later, they're all laughing together like it never happened. I thought this was a realistic touch of the movie. For me, Ernest Borgnine was the best performer in the movie. He's the voice of reason among his friends for most of the movie, but at the end, where he realizes they're not gonna get out of their dire straights without major bloodshed, he suddenly giggles like a child because, why not? They're screwed and he knows it and he's ready to kill! Still gives me goosebumps. I had it at #3 on my list.

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is my favorite John Ford movie and is definitely about the dying of the Old West and the advancement of civilization and the end of the gunslingers and their way of life. Everybody is perfect in this movie, but I have to give the edge to Jimmy Stewart (him being my favorite actor may have played a part in my decision). His frustration at the violence all around him is so well played, especially in the scene where he's tripped up by Lee Marvin and drops the steak and Wayne steps up and says, "That MY steak, Valance." Marvin drops coins on the floor, paying for it, but insulting Wayne at the same time. The change on Wayne's face is really well played as you know he's not going to take that insult and blood is about to be spilled. Then Stewart sees what's happened and picks up the steak and slams it on the plate, saying, "Has everybody in this town gone kill-crazy? There it's picked up!" He just can't fathom that two men would thrown down on each other over a steak, even though he's obviously angry for being tripped in front of everyone. Another great portion of that scene is Strother Martin, playing one of Marvin's lackeys, bending down, saying, "I'll get it Liberty" and Wayne kicking Martin right in the face. Hilarious stuff right in the middle of a very tense scene. Another great actor who just happened to be in The Wild Bunch, Edmond O'Brien, is awesome as the town newspaper editor, whose loud mouth gets him in trouble with Valance. The whole wraparound, with an aged Stewart relating the whole story is very touching, especially with what's happened to Wayne and his dreams and way of life. And the final line spoken to Stewart almost makes my eyes well up no matter how many times I see this movie. A true classic. I had it at #16, which I'm kind of ashamed of now. I just chalk that up to some last-minute switching of movies on my list and not being sure where I wanted certain ones to land.

My list so far:
Hombre Me: 13 The list proper: 88
The Naked Spur Me: 25 The list proper: 86
Ride the High Country Me: 10 The list proper: 63
Winchester '73 Me: 20 The list proper: 53
El Dorado Me: 2 The list proper: 47
The Professionals Me: 23 The list proper: 45
Shane Me: 12 The list proper: 43
True Grit Me: 4 The list proper: 38
Open Range Me: 19 The list proper: 36
Tombstone Me: 15 The list proper: 28
The Big Country Me: 9 The list proper: 27
The Magnificent Seven Me: 5 The list proper: 24
For a Few Dollars More Me: 6 The list proper: 18
A Fistful of Dollars Me: 7 The list proper: 16
The Outlaw Josey Wales Me: 1 The list proper: 13
Rio Bravo Me: 17 The list proper: 10
The Wild Bunch Me: 3 The list proper: 9
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance Me: 16 The list proper: 8
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Wayne, Stewart, Marvin, and Ford. It would have been a shock if I didn't love The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.

3. Little Big Man (#39)
4. The Ox-Bow Incident (#19)
5. The Big Country (#27)
6. The Wild Bunch (#9)
7. Shane (#43)
8. McC abe and Mrs. Miller (#17)
9. One-Eyed Jacks (#32)
10. My Darling Clementine (#44)
11. The Shootist (#57)
12. The Man Who Short Liberty Valance (#8)
14. Django Unchained (#12)
16. For a Few Dollars More (#18)
18. Day of the Outlaw (#77)
19. Red River (#56)
21. The Cowboys (#50)
23. Open Range (#36)
24. The Furies (#84)
25. Winchester 73 (#53)



John Ford has yet to do anything for me and I really wasn’t a fan of Who Shot Liberty Valance...

I love Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne has screen presence for days, but they couldn’t save this one for me. I wouldn’t deny a revisit in the future, as it’s been a long time, but first I think I will expand my Ford watchings.


Edit: Also, I had Rio Bravo and Liberty Valance switched on my prediction. So at least I had a feeling these two would be at the very bottom of the top 10...



Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.
Another one I didn't vote for. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is the last film to be considered a classic to be directed by John Ford. This complex western has grown in reputation since it was made in 1962. John Wayne gives one of his better performances as Tom and calls James Stewart's Ransom "Pilgrim" throughout, and for his part, Stewart is stalwart and stubbornly-persistent as the lawyer who wants to get even with the dastardly Liberty Valence (Lee Marvin) who robbed and whipped him just outside of the town of Shinbone when Ransom came in on the stage. This is all depicted in a flashback where one of the characters relates the story of how the three men interacted, which one was the man who shot Liberty Valence and which one wins the hand of the fair Hallie (Vera Miles). To be honest, I find the beginning of the film which sets up the flashback, to be a weak start which the film has to overcome, but it successfully does so, and the actual ending of the film, after the flashback ends and everyone, except for perhaps one significant character, knows the truth of the story to be quite moving. One thing's for sure is that this is certainly superior to the Wayne westerns (Rio Bravo, El Dorado) which Howard Hawks was making at about the same time.

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Not on my ballot but I do appreciate The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.

My old review:

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (John Ford 1962)

It's interesting that this movie comes at the end of director John Ford's brilliant career as it marks the end of an era in westerns. With the coming of Clint Eastwood and the much more action packed, violent westerns that would dominate the 1960s, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance hearkens back to the heyday of westerns. And yet it's modern in that it revolves around the changing events of a fictional western town as it changes through time, much like America had changed during the 20th century. We see this western frontier town go from the wild west days when a bad man like Liberty Valance could rule the roast...to the later days when rule of law and societal norms had caught up to the little town of Shinbone.

Director John Ford diminishes the characters impact in his story telling and instead makes the changing times of an American icon (IE the western town) the principal theme. Initially I was surprised that John Wayne had such little impact in the film, I mean this is not The Searchers or Rooster Cogburn. Here the Duke is just another gear in the machinery that highlights Americana, family and the old west. I guess that surprised me some as I expected with the big name actors that this would be their film...but John Ford wisely puts them into the background so that the overall themes of change can come more into focus.




The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is a greatt movie and got my vote!!

Seen: 34/93
- Slow West (#95)
- The Big Gundown (#85)
- The Furies (#84)
- The Gold Rush (#78)
- The Shooting (#71)
- The Grey Fox (#66)
- The Great Train Robbery (#60)
- Meek’s Cutoff (#58)
- Red River (#56)
- Bone Tomahawk (#54)
- The Cowboys (#50)
- Rango (#41)
- The Gunfighter (#40)
- Open Range (#36)
- Hell or High Water (#35)
- The Great Silence (#34)
- The Ballad of Buster Scruggs (#33)
- Johnny Guitar (#30)
- Tombstone (#28)
- The Revenant (#25)
- Stagecoach (#23)
- True Grit (#22)
- Blazing Saddles (#21)
- The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (#20)
- The Ox-Bow Incident (#19)
- For a Few Dollars More (#18)
- McCabe and Mrs. Miller (#17)
- A Fistful of Dollars (#16)
- The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (#15)
- There Will be Blood (#14)
- Django Unchained (#12)
- The Hateful Eight (#11)
- Rio Bravo (#10)
- The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (#8)

My list:
1. There Will be Blood
5. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
6. The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford
7. McCabe and Mrs. Miller
8. Blazing Saddles
10. Rio Bravo
11. For a Few Dollars More
12. Johnny Guitar
13. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
14. Hell or High Water
16. The Revenant
17. The Lone Ranger
18. A Fistful of Dollars
19. Red River
20. The Gunfighter
21. Bone Tomahawk
22. The Hateful Eight
23. The Ballad of Buster Scruggs
24. Stagecoach
25. Django Unchained
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FWIW I had "Wild Bunch" and "Liberty" at numbers 10 and 11 respectively.

One can't say enough about The Wild Bunch. One thing that fascinated me was the portrayal of the nasty General Mapache by Emilio Fernandez, who was a huge star in Mexican cinema as a writer/producer/actor. Mentally I equate his character with the great Alfonso Bedoya as "Gold Hat" in The Treasure of the Sierra Madre-- both sneering, evil characters.

And of course it was the first time I recall seeing that type of special effect from a gun shot, with the blood shooting away from the wound. Unfortunately it's been way overdone since.

It was nice to see such old pros make a movie about such old pros. It was fine work by Holden, Borgnine and Ryan; and the production crew was top of the line.

I always loved "Liberty Valance". Great actors, for sure, but the movie was a little different from typical westerns, in that there was a little twist and surprise element which allowed the audience to be in on something that the characters were not.

It was one of Ford's most appealing films, and it is fairly unique among his output. Also, I've always enjoyed Lee Marvin. Here he plays a taunting bully, not too unlike his character part as "Chino" 9 years prior in The Wild One.

Both great films IMO.



I am not a fan of John Wayne but I don't mind him as an actor as much as I used to, and there are times when his persona works well with the movie. The Shootist was the first movie where I genuinely liked the Duke and The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance was probably the second, though it's helped that James Stewart carries much of the movie. I had three John Wayne movies on my list and those are the three that I actually like and respect. I've got three more films from my list coming up.

My List:

3. McCabe and Mrs. Miller (#17)
4. The Outlaw Josey Wales (#13)
5. High Plains Drifter (#31)
6. Little Big Man (#39)
7. Jeremiah Johnson (#37)
8. The Wild Bunch (#9)
9. The Big Country (#27)
10. The Shootist (#58)
11. Rio Bravo (#10)
12. The Ox-Bow Incident (#19)
13. The Gunfighter (#40)
15. 3:10 to Yuma (1957)(#48)
16. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (#8)
17. The Sisters Brothers (#102)
18. The Life and Times of Judge Roy Bean (#76)
19. The Naked Spur (#86)
20. Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid (#67)
22. The Ballad of Buster Scruggs (#33)
24. Support Your Local Sheriff! (#89)
25. Johnny Guitar (#30)
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