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But they could practice it with citizens and only have to break with social distancing if they needed to physically stop a criminal or a suspect they were taking into custody.
In general, giving cops a whole other set of murky guidelines to follow, in addition to all the other ones they have, seems like a bad idea, at least to me.

This is a new situation. Not sure of the rush to judgement against the one organizational force we need right now in a sea of freaked out populace.
__________________
Rules:
When women have a poet, they want a cowboy.
When they have a cowboy, they want a poet.
They'll say "I don't care if he's a poet or cowboy, so long as he's a nice guy. But oh, I'm so attracted to that bad guy over there."
Understand this last part, and you'll get them all.



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This whole topic just smacks to me of "outrage porn" and tangential argument that has little if anything to do with corona.

None of us know what actually happened. There are at least two sides to every story. Maybe the cops were wrong, maybe they weren't. Maybe the guy was in the wrong, maybe he wasn't. Maybe both were. None of us can know.

Perhaps it might be best to move on from the topic?
+1



+2. Definitely veering into outrage porn. And there are all sorts of specifics about the way the two could've talked to each other that might totally explain things, which we simply don't know. Like MattJohn said, someone behaved badly or rudely (whether they were in the right or wrong), but we don't know if it was one, or the other, or both. Beyond that, it's just general preconceptions being applied to a specific situation none of us experienced.



In general, giving cops a whole other set of murky guidelines to follow, in addition to all the other ones they have, seems like a bad idea, at least to me.

This is a new situation. Not sure of the rush to judgement against the one organizational force we need right now in a sea of freaked out populace.
After a month, social distancing is not a murky guideline (it even has designated footage) - in normal times, cops want others to practice distancing with them (ever try to get out of your car at traffic stop and walk towards the cop?)

Their reasoning they don't tend to want people in their personal space is rational - they are armed and don't want people getting close enough to them to assault them or take their weapon.

Personally, I'm not rushing to judgement on a whole force (I tend to defend police in most cases and every incident has its own variables)... but on this case, it's difficult to find mitigating circumstances for the cops' actions... (for example, if the man became beligerent AND violent towards them, I'd trust that would have been part of the story and the actual reason for cuffing him, not being in a park playing ball with his wife and kid - especially when the park had posted specific regulations of group sizes and saying it was open for physical activities).

The family was within all posted guidelines so there was no reason to harass them or order them to leave when they were within the lawful and posted regulations.



You ready? You look ready.
It ain’t outrage porn. It’s solid reporting about real world repercussions from the current climate in this country. And anyone dismissing it as outrage porn is missing the bigger picture and doing a disservice to themselves.

The government tells us that social distancing outside in parks is ok. Then cops show up and throw their weight around. Cops are an extension of government, so you see the disconnect here, right?

We will see more of this if the climate gets any worse. Right now we are part of one large social experiment.

And as an aside, anyone depending on the cops to respond/protect them is usually the one that has an outline drawn around them when they show up.

And why is everyone talking about race all of a sudden? Corona ain’t racist. It’s opportunist.



The Adventure Starts Here!
@Austruck: Cruises are disgusting. I don’t care what any cruiser says.

Glad to hear you’re getting a sweet deal, tho!
Have you ever been on one? Seriously fun, and inexpensive... and sorry, CLEAN. If you go with the right person(s), it's a blast.



I have zero idea of what the race of the cops and of the man in the park was. My only information on that event has been this thread. AND I don't care what color they are or if they wear boxers or briefs.



It ain’t outrage porn. It’s solid reporting about real world repercussions from the current climate in this country. And anyone dismissing it as outrage porn is missing the bigger picture and doing a disservice to themselves.

The government tells us that social distancing outside in parks is ok. Then cops show up and throw their weight around. Cops are an extension of government, so you see the disconnect here, right?

We will see more of this if the climate gets any worse. Right now we are part of one large social experiment.

And why is everyone talking about race all of a sudden? Corona ain’t racist. It’s opportunist.
Well said... and this is exactly why I expressed concern about things like "curfews" weeks ago (and again, I understand them in big cities where curfews are sometimes put into effect for a variety of reasons, but having curfews in the suburbs where the people out on the streets after dark are walkers, joggers, star-gazers, dog-walkers - people who pose no threat and are already isolating & distancing based on their activity even in normal times).

And there is a portion of society who will see this crisis and ceize on it as a way boost their agenda & desire for power - there are those who become enthused when they see an opportinuity to expand authoritarianism and invoke ever greater governmental controls on society.



You ready? You look ready.
Oh, I care. If they are wearing boxers I don’t recognize their authority. Only a madman wears those while walking a beat.

Another aside: I only respect laws. If a cop disregards/breaks the law then they are not deserving of your respect. I’ve never understood the idea that you should always respect every office. They’re people, yo. People are awful sometimes.



Oh, I care. If they are wearing boxers I don’t recognize their authority. Only a madman wears those while walking a beat.

Another aside: I only respect laws. If a cop disregards/breaks the law then they are not deserving of your respect. I’ve never understood the idea that you should always respect every office. They’re people, yo. People are awful sometimes.
I only wear boxer-briefs now... all the anti-chaffing protection of a boxer with the snuggness and security of a brief!



Account terminated on request
After a month, social distancing is not a murky guideline (it even has designated footage) - in normal times, cops want others to practice distancing with them (ever try to get out of your car at traffic stop and walk towards the cop?)
I'd argue that if we're talking about a set of guidelines that law enforcement is somehow compelled to comply with, it's absolutely a very murky line to discern. Far murkier than "just cause" as a general principal is.



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And why is everyone talking about race all of a sudden? Corona ain’t racist. It’s opportunist.
I have zero idea of what the race of the cops and of the man in the park was. My only information on that event has been this thread. AND I don't care what color they are or if they wear boxers or briefs.
Allow me to beg everyone: I'm the last person in the world to speak with authority on dangerous subjects from any kind of high road, but regardless, maybe don't bring up that word again. It's just gasoline waiting for a match.

Cops and law by themselves as a subject is likely ok I'm guessing, but when the word after Q words shows up, outrage is upon the wind and is a'comin'....

Up to Yoder...



I'd argue that if we're talking about a set of guidelines that law enforcement is somehow compelled to comply with, it's absolutely a very murky line to discern. Far murkier than "just cause" as a general principal is.
I don't see how it's murky. These new societal rules are being given to everyone since virus doesn't discriminate.

Even in normal times, no one (cops especially) should violate someone's personal space (usually considered a 2 foot circle) if they are not doing something wrong.

Social distancing has expanded that space to a 6 foot circumfrence - and it's for mutual protection. For cops (or anyone) it's protecting them FROM viral spread and protecting others from them if they are a carrier.

Not hard to understand or practice.

Now, of course, just like in normal times, a cop may have to violate personal space to apprehend a criminal. (Cops can't violate personal space or apprehend someone if they aren't suspected of a crime, so the general rules of behavior are still the same both within police protocol and general societal norms.)

So nothing really new here - just that, to slow the spread of Covid, we are ALL practicing social distancing (this includes cops) - unless they have to break with the practice for what would be considered an emergency (to stop a criminal), just like an EMT, firefighter or Dr. might have to break the practice to help someone in immediate need.



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I only wear boxer-briefs now... all the anti-chaffing protection of a boxer with the snuggness and security of a brief!
A low-road proof of me:

You're likely safe from "lengthening" too. {chuckle}



And why is everyone talking about race all of a sudden? Corona ain’t racist. It’s opportunist.
As far as I can tell, you're the one that brought it up:

This is the precise line of thinking that ends in minorities being shot dead.



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I don't see how it's murky. These new societal rules are being given to everyone since virus doesn't discriminate.
Law enforcement by definition have a different charter regarding their conduct than the general populace.

It shouldn't be murky to you and me. It absolutely would be murky as a compelled requirement for cops to follow:
Were they always 6' apart?
Does it apply to family members?
Were more than 4 there only for someone to drop something off?
What about people already living together?
What about proof of having had the disease and no longer a carrier?
What about, what about, what about.....
I really think you're oversimplifying this when it comes to law enforcement.

Anyway, I feel out of ways of explaining this thing.



Law enforcement by definition have a different charter regarding their conduct than the general populace.

It shouldn't be murky to you and me. It absolutely would be murky as a compelled requirement:
Were they always 6' apart?
Does it apply to family members?
Were more than 4 there only for someone to drop something off?
What about people already living together?
What about proof of having had the disease and no longer a carrier?
What about, what about, what about.....
I really think you're oversimplifying this when it comes to law enforcement.

Anyway, I feel out of ways of explaining this thing.
I understand what you're saying.

Now, more than ever, a little common sense goes a long way.

For the situation in question - if the father was not breaking the law (and based even on the newly posted regulations, he wasn't) and was not suspected of a crime, he should not have been handcuffed or detained. He shouldn not have been surrounded or had his personal space violated. The cops could have spoken to him if they has some issue that had to be discussed. But based on the situation described, there was no need for cops to even approach him.

Now, even if the father got rude with them - hey, it's a stressful time - if someone is minding their own business, is with their own family (who they'd be together with indoors somewhere anyway) and is not breaking the law and expresses that they wish to be left alone, then they should be left alone rather than being harassed about being in a wide open area with only their wife and kid. Common sense.



I hope Americans don't start supporting a bunch of extremist conspiracy theories, like some did after 9/11. I mean there's no end to how people could/can and probably will spin the pandemic to give voice to their own personal bias and fears. In when that happens logic goes out the window.



You ready? You look ready.
As far as I can tell, you're the one that brought it up:
Ah, that would be my foul then. 😅

I don’t even remember writing that today was such a blur.

Also, this is not outrage porn either.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox11on...-store-produce



Just to clarify, when I say "outrage porn" I don't mean that the complaint or concern isn't genuine, or valid. I mean, primarily, that people are outraged about a situation they don't (and sometimes can't) have any real knowledge of, based primarily on whatever preconceptions they have about the demographics of the parties involved, but it minorities, or police officers, or some other social dynamic that they've decided this is an example of.

It's not hard to imagine versions of this event, consistent with all the reporting, that make either party look highly unreasonable depending on exactly how they behaved. Saying someone "refused" to do something encompasses everything from polite refusal with explanation to cursing someone out for making a benign suggestion, after all.

The main thing is, whatever you thought about the virus, or the cops, or the government, does not necessarily have any applicability or bearing here, and definitely doesn't tell us who behaved in what way absent more information.

That said, I don't have any problem believing the cops were overzealous, or even outright bullying the people. I have no idea. Sounds perfectly plausible, for sure, in part because everyone's on edge. Which is another reason to extend everyone a little more grace than usual, anyway.