Are comedy movie hypocritical when it comes to sexual assault humor?

Tools    





Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
I feel that a lot of comedy movies will have a lot of rape and sexual assault jokes pointed towards men and it's suppose to be funny. Movies like Wedding Crashers, Get Hard, or even Family Guy in a lot of parts, and Horrible Bosses. But it seems to be a double standard cause you never see humor like this directed at women compared to men.

I think Horrible Bosses is the best example, I can use and I'll be spoiling the movie, if that's okay.

In the movie, a man (Dale), is being blackmailed by his female dentist boss (Julia). Julia keeps on trying to blackmail him into having sex with her. She goes as far as use the knock out gas that she keeps around since she is a dentist, to knock him out. Strip him naked and take lots of pictures of her with him making it look like he was having sex with her, while he was unconscious.

She then blackmails him with the photos, threatening to send them to his wife, unless he has sex with her, and gives him a clock until his time is up, or the photos will be sent to her.

Dale tells his guy friends about this, and they don't take the issue seriously and tease him about it.

Now if this where the other way around, and a female employee was rendered unconscious from gas, from her dentist boss and he stripped her naked and made it look like she had sex with him in photos... and then threatened to send the pics to her husband unless he slept with her... and then she goes to her friends to tell them about it and the friends tease her about it and don't take it seriously...

Audiences would not find this near as funny I don't think, and I feel that this is a huge double standard when it comes to society and humor that just makes quite a few comedies, leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth when it's over.

But it seems a lot of fans of the movie did not feel this way. I watched this movie with my gf and another female friend of mine and they were laughing at this situation hysterically, especially in the scene, when the photos are unveiled. My female friend is even a victim of sexual assault herself, so I wondered, how can she find this stuff funny?

Now it's not that I am sensitive or offend easily with certain material in movies, as some of my favorite movies deal with sensitive and controversial subject matter. I'm just seem a possible problem with this kind of comedic material though.

Am I weird for thinking this, or perhaps I see a valid point here?



You do have a valid point here.


[Rant On]



Many things that would be deemed tragic or horrible when done to women are deemed funny when done to men. While men and women are equal, we, nevertheless, have different reactions when things happen to the different genders. Some of this stems from classic gallantry (men can take it), but much of it stems from the current misandry (he is male, so it is o.k. if he is hurt, besides, he must have had it coming).



In the movie you are citing, the male in question is, I do believe, smaller than his female boss and less able to defend himself physically as well.



It is a huge double-standard and, as usual, it goes against the men. There are several other ones right now in the movies. Mostly that men die like flies (and most of the time nobody cares), but when a woman dies, it is a huge, tragic moment. In Divergent, there is a huge battle. Watch the battle closely. Despite that fact that men and women are equal and divided generally equally among the different groups, almost every single person doing the killing and almost every single person being killed is male. It is o.k. to kill men, but not women. There is a scene where the protagonist's mother dies during this battle and the entire battle seems to stop so that the protagonist can agonize over and care for her dying mother. None of this attention was given to a single male in the film. In fact, the protagonist's father dies a little bit later and she literally shrugs off the news.


In modern cinema, men are treated like dirt. We are to be used and discarded at will. We are supposed to give up our lives for women, but they are allowed to abuse however they want. And we are supposed to take that abuse, that destruction of our property, our dignity and our lives however they care to dish it out. Hollywood teaches men that they are not worth as much as a woman and that they will always, always, always be in the wrong. It also teaches them that they are always replaceable by a female.



[Rant Off]



In modern cinema, men are treated like dirt. We are to be used and discarded at will. We are supposed to give up our lives for women, but they are allowed to abuse however they want. And we are supposed to take that abuse, that destruction of our property, our dignity and our lives however they care to dish it out. Hollywood teaches men that they are not worth as much as a woman and that they will always, always, always be in the wrong. It also teaches them that they are always replaceable by a female.
In terms of "rape jokes" though I think you see that there very seldom made by female characters(or indeed directors/writers) at men's expense, almost always its male characters/writters/directors making them at other mens expense.

The culture that gives rise to such jokes isn't IMHO feminist but rather a male macho one which views male weakness as only worthy of mockery.



I wouldn't point at comedy movies or movies of any kind. For me, this has always been a normal part of guys joking around in regular life. The only time it's directed towards a woman is when it's about somebody's mother.



I wouldn't point at comedy movies or movies of any kind. For me, this has always been a normal part of guys joking around in regular life. The only time it's directed towards a woman is when it's about somebody's mother.
Pretty much, I think this is far more an outgrowth of male culture than it is some form of "man hating feminism".

I would argue personally that mainstream comedy films have tended towards embracing this culture more often over the last couple of decades. it seems like the standard go to tone of a lot of comedy these days is a kind of immature machismo with male characters played as overgrown jocks or fratboys.



There's definitely a lot of the overgrown frat boy stuff, but it's not usually presented as admirable. It's usually supposed to be funny because it's absurd/ridiculous. I suppose that leaves it open to playing it off as more mischievous than dangerous (obviously, it can be either), but it doesn't usually seem to be venerating it exactly. No more than The Simpsons venerates Homer.



Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
The humor has been done a lot when it comes to men assaulting other men for laughs. One movie example would be Hot Tub Time Machine. In that movie,

SPOILERS

One of the characters agrees to a bet, hoping he will win, but if he looses, he has to give oral sex to the guy he is loosing too, even though he is straight. He accepts the bet, hoping to win but looses. He doesn't want to perform the oral sex, so the guy tries to force him to do it at gunpoint. Of course he comes real close to doing it, but then he is saved at the last moment.

But if this situation was done with female characters, and a woman was forced at gunpoint to perform oral sex on another woman, even though her character was straight, would the audience find it as funny, if it were women?



There's definitely a lot of the overgrown frat boy stuff, but it's not usually presented as admirable. It's usually supposed to be funny because it's absurd/ridiculous. I suppose that leaves it open to playing it off as more mischievous than dangerous (obviously, it can be either), but it doesn't usually seem to be venerating it exactly. No more than The Simpsons venerates Homer.
I would argue that whilst the characters involved aren't always nominally shown as entirely admirable there is ultimately an endorsement of the mind-sets they represent in the humour of the films/TV there in.

I mean the idea of male characters behaving in a childish fashion is very old in comedy but I think more recently you've definitely see a shift towards focus on a more macho frat boy aspect of that which takes the form of stuff like jokes about male sexual assault. I would say a character like Homer represents more of the older tradition were as a character like Peter Griffin the newer one.

To some degree I think you could argue that's a reflection of society with the rise of this kind of culture but also I suspect a product of the entertainment industry becoming more fractured. Comedy films and TV these days I'd say tend towards trying to target a core audience the same way horror films do.



Hmm. I'm struggling to think of ways in which these movies really endorse the behavior. As I mentioned, they certainly seem to regard it as no big deal, but the humor usually comes specifically from the fact that the behavior is ridiculous (otherwise, why laugh at it?). And there's usually some (really lame and formulaic) storyline about how the main character has to grow up to actually win over some girl or graduate or what have you.



I think the best example of this is in the film "Super" with Rainn Wilson and Ellen Page.

WARNING: spoilers below

Ellen Page literally rapes Rainn Wilson and then they carry on like nothing happened.


And you should watch the film anyone cos Rainn Wilson KILLS IT.



That elusive hide-and-seek cow is at it again
I think the creators of South Park pretty much touched on this one with the XJ-212 Funny Bot formula, "setup, punchline, then 'Awkwaaard.'"

Awkward here is the role reversal. Is it funny? Sure. In the exaggerated context of Horrible Bosses it is (to some, at the very least), else it wouldn't elicit laughter. Is this a negative or a double-standard? I'm not sure. Was the intent of the writer(s) to imply that and create a social commentary? Could it not also be interpreted that changing the dynamic here might help break the ice of a topic that is already divisive and carries with it a range of social land mines? I Personally doubt the intent was to promote a perspective or to create dialogue either way. Who knows? Maybe that perspective will help change our business administrative structures, breaking down walls of gender equality. We can read what we choose, but I think sometimes a joke is just a joke because it is awkward.
__________________
"My Dionne Warwick understanding of your dream indicates that you are ambivalent on how you want life to eventually screw you." - Joel

"Ever try to forcibly pin down a house cat? It's not easy." - Captain Steel

"I just can't get pass sticking a finger up a dog's butt." - John Dumbear



I think the best example of this is in the film "Super" with Rainn Wilson and Ellen Page.

WARNING: spoilers below

Ellen Page literally rapes Rainn Wilson and then they carry on like nothing happened.


And you should watch the film anyone cos Rainn Wilson KILLS IT.

I immediately thought of that scene too. But to me it's actually one of the most accurate depiction of a woman raping a man. It shows how one's bottom parts can seem to consent while your body language and your words clearly express the opposite, and also how a physically inferior person can still dominate another and have her own way. Sexual assault is about power.
__________________
In my own land, I’m in a far domain
[...]
Welcomed gladly, and spurned by everyone



Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
But I think Super also shows how it's double standard about genders though, cause the movie suppose to be a comedy, and if it were the other way around, and Ellen Page was the one being raped, the filmmakers would be afraid to make that way.



But I think Super also shows how it's double standard about genders though, cause the movie suppose to be a comedy, and if it were the other way around, and Ellen Page was the one being raped, the filmmakers would be afraid to make that way.

It's an interesting point, though I never thought of it that way. For me it would have been double standard if the scene had been played for laughs and if I'd been expected to root for Libby (Ellen) raping Frank (Rainn), or maybe thinking that at least he got lucky.


I thought the scene was amazing because it dared explore the subject of man rape in a way that doesn't diminish the character of the man going through it, but that of the perpetrator (when the opposite is usually the case - i.e the raped man lacks manliness).


What we'll agree on is that the scene would've been completely different even if it had featured a young man raping a fully grown woman that is stronger than him. But it's not the movie that has double standards, but the society in which it is shown.


Anyway, I might be wrong about it all. Did you find that scene to be a comedic one ? Did it leave you the impression that Rainn was somehow a lesser man for going through it ?



Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
Well I guess it's because I found all of super to be kind of comedic and satirical, and cheesy. Like the rape was done in a cheesy way. It's suppose to be kind of a cheesy movie but it diminishes the seriousness of the rape as a result persay. I didn't think he was lesser man, for what happened at all though. I just think it when it comes to dark comedy movies that are suppose to have cheese in them such as this, viewers are more accepting of a man being raped than a woman, it seems.



I just think it when it comes to dark comedy movies that are suppose to have cheese in them...
Usually dark comedy is juxtaposed to cheese comedy. Though I haven't seen the movie you're talking about.



Movie Forums Squirrel Jumper
It was both dark and cheesy. I watched the movie out of interest from this, and I have to say that I feel that it reiterates what I mean, that sexual violence or assault against men is more comfortable for moviegoers in a comedy compared to women?



Usually dark comedy is juxtaposed to cheese comedy. Though I haven't seen the movie you're talking about.

What an interesting insight! Do you have any examples for that ?



It was both dark and cheesy. I watched the movie out of interest from this, and I have to say that I feel that it reiterates what I mean, that sexual violence or assault against men is more comfortable for moviegoers in a comedy compared to women?
I found that scene to be mostly disturbing (in a good way) and unexpected and it just stayed in my mind that way. But maybe I should watch it again with my definitely woker 2019 mindset


I also remember browsing the old imdb boards like I always did back then. A fairly common opinion was that it wasn't a rape scene at all. That's probably because Libby is way shorter and weaker than Frank, and also because an erection means consent (to those who held that opinion at least). For me that is a typical case of cognitive dissonance, where people get all the more opinionated when the evidence against there case is strong. But maybe that bit of misplaced doubt regarding the nature of those scenes (or the tragic reality of what they depict) is partly to blame for the trend that you describe.