Is Movie Forums DYING?

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16 pages in, the answer is clear.

MoFo dying? Not quite. If it was, it's been resurrected
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A system of cells interlinked
Currently 20 members and 400 guests online. I would say no, not dying. I am sure Yoda has more accurate metrics with which to analyze the issue, though.
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We've gone on holiday by mistake
I don't think movies are slowly dying, I think TV is just getting so much better. And people barely talk about television shows here unless it's an HBO show.
Perhaps it would be an idea to restructure the forum a bit, TV getting a bigger slot at the top rather than being a sub forum. Maybe even streaming Netflix/Amazon/Disney getting a separate tab too.

Times are changing so change with the times sort of thing. I know Yoda loves coding I'm sure he would be thrilled
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We've gone on holiday by mistake
No, but it's been in a coma ever since cinemaaficonado got banned.
There should be an annual Cinema gets unbanned for a week event! Yoda and Cinema will lock horns over Cinemas BS stories, engaging in live debate Skype calls and the like, while we all sit back with the popcorn.

That will bring back the old members!

@Yoda thoughts?



We've gone on holiday by mistake
Regarding the "political discord" between members we are living in quite an explosive political time at the moment, the likes of which have not been seen since perhaps Vietnam (and what's happening doesn't really compare to that). People are stubbornly entrenched in their views and it's turning family members and friends against one another.

So why should this forum or any other forum be any different?



Welcome to the human race...
I believe this akin to someone saying all Muslims are terrorists.
This really isn't the best way to start off a post imploring someone to respect other people's beliefs.

I'm glad you're posing this as a hypothetical because I believe that this way of thinking is what has actually divided the country. Blaming Trump for that is a cop out.
You're right about blaming Trump, if only because he's a symptom of a much greater problem.

First of all, a person's beliefs need to be respected, and it's the actions of people that define them, not their beliefs.
I would say that openly admitting to holding disrespectful or even outright toxic beliefs counts as a defining action.

Secondly, there are many people on both sides who hold their beliefs simply because they are misinformed.
True.

Don't like Trump's personality? I get that, but I see none of his political actions thus far to be anything outrageous enough to cause the lack of civility between the people that we have.
How hard are you looking?

I think it's less that it's "easy" and more that literally everyone is nuanced and complicated, and the only time we can't conveniently forget this is when we know them.
I guess.

Well, you've spent the last few posts describing how awful it is, so I think we can start with the premise that the bar on those alternatives should be pretty low.
Probably.

If you're implying there's some fundamental difference between the two, I don't see it. At least not in the context I'm describing: I was similarly "outnumbered" and found it similarly exhausting, but didn't think humanity was doomed because people stubbornly refused to agree with me. I didn't think the rules were unfair or flawed or that everyone was awful just because I wasn't constantly and immediately winning.
How nice for you.

This feels like a larger version of the same thing we all go through as young people, where we have that "why don't we just do X?" posture in response to the problems of the world. And then we realize logistics are a thing, or we Google "moral hazard" one day and hopefully we come out the other side more tolerant, realizing that the problems are problems because this stuff isn't obvious, actually, and lots of smart, well-meaning people think differently. Unless, of course, we refuse to learn that lesson and double down, and insist the system must be broken if the world isn't reshaped the way we think it should be.
Why not both?

Incidentally, if you think I was describing you just then, note how well it describes some Trump supporters, too. And that's the point: if your argument mostly boils down to "but they're awful!" you have to grapple with the fact that they sometimes think you're awful, too. That's why these conventions exist in the first place: they're not tools of oppression or the status quo. They allow people to co-exist amidst irreconcilable differences. They're protecting you as much as you think they're protecting all the awful people over there.
Am I supposed to infer from that "too" that I would've been right to think you were talking about me anyway? I guess it wouldn't surprise me anyway, nor would the idea that the other side would consider my views awful (or else we probably wouldn't be having this interaction).

I think so. I think one means you're not going to agree, but the other implies you can't even fathom how anyone could.
Duly noted.

Fights break out continually when they are provoked continually. Raising these issues in public is obviously not a neutral act.

Anyway, if your policy is essentially to argue with pretty much anyone who pushes back on the latest progressive causes, yeah, you're gonna find it exhausting. You'd find it similarly exhausting if you decided you had some kind of moral duty to argue with every movie rating you didn't agree with. Nothing remarkable about that. What's remarkable is deciding you need to do this in the first place.
Who else would do it?

I don't think that's real empathy, then. I'm not sure it's possible to genuinely empathize without being able to at least sorta find your way to the belief in question, intellectually.

Anyway, at minimum you'd need a general understanding of conservative thought that isn't just something patronizing about how people emotionally react to change, or whatever. And, to be perfectly blunt, I'm not convinced you really get the intellectual moorings of most conservative ideas.
It probably doesn't help that most of the conservatives I do get exposed to don't exactly display much in the way of intellectual rigour.

If what you're "explaining" is why something they believe is actually bigoted, then I think the "calmly and rationally" part is probably not a relevant factor in how it's received.
Some things you just can't be nice about, I guess.

If your posture is "zero sum," IE: there is no neutrality, and that any silence or agree-to-disagree is actually a form of aggression because it favors the status quo, then you've erased the difference between the people who disagree amicably and those that are disagree aggressively. So there's not much reason to be in the former rather than the latter if (when) you feel attacked.

I think there's probably no way to proceed with this discussion unless we actually get into the views themselves, because I think it's really just going to boil down to "but I just find these views horrible." I don't think they're actually unprecedented or unique or special in some way that leaves you no choice but to suspend normal rules of civility and debate. So we'd have to talk about your own views, and whether they're as reasonable as you think. Spoiler alert: I don't think they are. I'd even say some are straight-up logically invalid, and even self-contradictory. Though notice I've not felt the need to force you to defend them each time the issue has come up.

Anyway, I'm up for all that, and I think that's kinda the only thing left to be done or said. Anything else is going to leave us at an impasse where I talk about not hating people for believing different things and you think I'm asking you to shake a Nazi's hand, or something.
I would think it depends on how aggressive the status quo is in the first place more so than how strongly one agrees or disagrees about whether it should continue to exist in its current form. Also, why am I not surprised that you don't exactly hold my personal views in high regard (or possibly don't get the "intellectual moorings", but like you said, that's its own discussion)? As for the matter of suspending civility and debate, I'd have to ask what exactly about these particular views that you don't consider sufficiently exceptional.

This is my general position. There was a big ol' fight wayyyyy back in the first year or two of the site's existence about the prominence of Intermission over movie-talk threads, and there was even a major exodus of members who resented it when I suggested they maybe focus on movies, since that's the idea here. But that's what's sustainable: the thing that brought people here in the first place. The thing they have in common.

Things are definitely less pleasant here in many threads, but that's true in every corner of the Internet right now. This is a big problem with the discourse (and, I think, inherent to the very nature of mass communication, which people are not actually built for at all), but it's much bigger than this site, and I tend to think we've been hit with it a lot less than most other places.

Anyway, the answer is talking more about movies. I bring up the live-and-let-live stuff because that's an inevitable part of it. If you despise people in one thread, it's pretty hard to go good-naturedly fight about whether Die Hard is a Christmas movie in another.
You'd think so, but now everyone's arguing about the politics of the movies as well - you could start a "Is Die Hard a Christmas movie" thread now and it stands a good chance of turning into arguments over Sgt. Powell's tragic backstory ageing badly or whatever.

Die Hard is DEFINITELY a Christmas movie.

And yes, the bickering and name-calling is *everywhere* these days. Twitter explodes with it daily. And don't get me started on how ugly so much of my Facebook newsfeed has been the past year and a half. There are too many people on both ends of the political spectrum who just can't seem to get on with their lives after the political issues of 2016. It astounds and scares me how little some people want to get on with their lives, how much they can hang on to bitterness over political beliefs.

It's FAR worse elsewhere than it is here.
Perhaps "getting on with their lives" isn't really an option in some cases. That obviously affects people in ways where the bitterness goes beyond performative arguing.
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Iro's Top 100 Movies v3.0



There doesn't seem to be many new posters sticking around lately. Even the ex IMDB posters have all but disappeared.
That would describe me & I’m still here after 1-1/4 years.

Nah, that's the norm. But this is different. People replaced them. We don't really have any popular members that just joined a year or two ago.
LOL. I’m not popular?

People are just too damn dramatic.
I agree.

They will all tell you how pretty damn Awesome I am...
Modest too.

IIs this even a forum about movies - is often my question.
Does it have to be? To me it’s a site where we can talk about movies & tv or anything else we choose to talk about. And this site is kept running for our entertainment & it costs us nothing so let’s not forget that.

You guys probably don't remember me.
I remember you from the food thread very well. My problem with you is that we don’t know anything about you & your profile tells us nothing. Took me a while to figure out you’re female & I think you’re Vietnamese. But as to where you live I have no clue. Is that Finnish writing in your profile? Tell us about yourself or play some of the games with us. The photo games are fun.

There are definitely cliques around here. Most of the newbies don't care to speak to me.
I highly doubt that is true. Speak to us & we’ll speak to you. The only interaction I’ve had with you is receiving a PM from you inquiring as to my gender since you were confused by it. Or words to that effect, which didn’t exactly invite a fun convo.
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28 days...6 hours...42 minutes...12 seconds
Is anybody other than @Yoda and @Iroquois reading all their gibberish?
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Perhaps "getting on with their lives" isn't really an option in some cases. That obviously affects people in ways where the bitterness goes beyond performative arguing.
I'm not talking about people who might actually be affected by policy changes. I'm talking about people (again, at both ends of the spectrum) who are just angry and pissed and are posting fake news bits because they support their anger. People who literally post outraged, ridiculous Facebook posts sometimes a half dozen times in a single day. People who were NOT doing this before 2016's election. People whose daily lives aren't really all that different post-election. But now it's all vitriol and offense and everyone is suspect who doesn't think like them on political issues.

I've been on Facebook for a decade. It was never like this before. And I know many of these people personally -- enough to know this is just emotional overreacting and knee-jerk anger at people who don't agree with them about politics. Folks who never used to jump on bandwagons are hopping on for the ride now.

It's ridiculous and it doesn't solve anything. And it's not even making them feel better. It's the ugly side to "social media," and it's liable to be its downfall.



...It's the ugly side to "social media," and it's liable to be its downfall.
Agreed with your post. I see social media as both good and bad, and often at the extremities.

I bet SJW's have a conundrum...do they applaud social media as an avenue to vent? Or do they condemn it as a venue for venting?



I am the oldest of all the grandchildren from both sides of my parents' families. Growing up, I spent most of my time with my dad's parents as they lived only 40 minutes or so away. My mother's mother lived a good 7 hours, so visits to her were limited to once a year at best. My father's parents lived on a farm. I would visit for a week or two at a time during summer breaks. At that time, I only had two other cousins: two sisters that most times would visit during the same time that I was there. I suppose it was to entertain us while our parents worked. Usually Papa would spend the day farming fields while these three of us children stayed behind with our grandmother, in the house. I believe were were each maybe 1-2 years apart from the other.

We passed our days building bed sheet forts in the front bedroom that was adjacent to the living room area. There were three bedrooms with one holding two full-sized beds. Needless to say there was a surplus of bed sheets to make use of tucking edges, tying corners to door knobs, and even using towels draped as privacy walls between our individual "rooms" within. One afternoon our tent community spilled over into roughly 2/3rds of the living room. Papa was not happy when he came home as his recliner was 10' deep into a tent kingdom. We had 5 minutes to take it all down, else the belt would be used.

Other days were spent fighting over who would check the mail down the long dirt and gravel driveway. We would argue over and literally push each other over who would collect eggs that morning from the chicken coop. We explored the surrounding woods, crawling through wet ditches collecting minnows and tadpoles that found their way into the stream from nearby ponds and wash ways. We chased butterflies.

One afternoon I convinced my two cousins that if you spin until dizzy, you could undo the effect by spinning the opposite direction. I truly believed it. We were sick for an hour, but mostly I was sick due to my injured pride. I had absolute faith that the mechanics were sound. We found broken egg shells near the road that crows had stolen from the chicken coop. After their morning raids, they apparently drop the eggs to the dirt road below to break apart and eat from.

We fed cows handfuls of hay, and chewed on sour red weeds as we sat under oak trees in the yard.

Come weekends, our parents would return to claim us. My grandmother, the consummate southern cook, would spend all Saturday cooking ham, dumplings, dressing, cornbread, and a variety of other southern standards. She had an old pecan wood dining table that sat six---enough for her, her husband, and both sets of our parents but, unfortunately, there was no room for us, the young grandchildren. Instead, our mothers prepared our plates for us, then sat us on bent knee at the old wooden piano bench just past the door frame between the dining and living rooms. There we knelt eating our meals, grateful for our time together and for the food that we were given; but ever resentful that we were forever ostracized from the big table for having not been older to have laid claim to a chair.
If nothing else came out of this thread but this beautiful piece of writing, it would be enough.



I am the oldest of all the grandchildren from both sides of my parents' families. Growing up, I spent most of my time with my dad's parents as they lived only 40 minutes or so away. My mother's mother lived a good 7 hours, so visits to her were limited to once a year at best. My father's parents lived on a farm. I would visit for a week or two at a time during summer breaks. At that time, I only had two other cousins: two sisters that most times would visit during the same time that I was there. I suppose it was to entertain us while our parents worked. Usually Papa would spend the day farming fields while these three of us children stayed behind with our grandmother, in the house. I believe were were each maybe 1-2 years apart from the other.

We passed our days building bed sheet forts in the front bedroom that was adjacent to the living room area. There were three bedrooms with one holding two full-sized beds. Needless to say there was a surplus of bed sheets to make use of tucking edges, tying corners to door knobs, and even using towels draped as privacy walls between our individual "rooms" within. One afternoon our tent community spilled over into roughly 2/3rds of the living room. Papa was not happy when he came home as his recliner was 10' deep into a tent kingdom. We had 5 minutes to take it all down, else the belt would be used.

Other days were spent fighting over who would check the mail down the long dirt and gravel driveway. We would argue over and literally push each other over who would collect eggs that morning from the chicken coop. We explored the surrounding woods, crawling through wet ditches collecting minnows and tadpoles that found their way into the stream from nearby ponds and wash ways. We chased butterflies.

One afternoon I convinced my two cousins that if you spin until dizzy, you could undo the effect by spinning the opposite direction. I truly believed it. We were sick for an hour, but mostly I was sick due to my injured pride. I had absolute faith that the mechanics were sound. We found broken egg shells near the road that crows had stolen from the chicken coop. After their morning raids, they apparently drop the eggs to the dirt road below to break apart and eat from.

We fed cows handfuls of hay, and chewed on sour red weeds as we sat under oak trees in the yard.

Come weekends, our parents would return to claim us. My grandmother, the consummate southern cook, would spend all Saturday cooking ham, dumplings, dressing, cornbread, and a variety of other southern standards. She had an old pecan wood dining table that sat six---enough for her, her husband, and both sets of our parents but, unfortunately, there was no room for us, the young grandchildren. Instead, our mothers prepared our plates for us, then sat us on bent knee at the old wooden piano bench just past the door frame between the dining and living rooms. There we knelt eating our meals, grateful for our time together and for the food that we were given; but ever resentful that we were forever ostracized from the big table for having not been older to have laid claim to a chair.
Why does this sound similar to my childhood? I wasn't the oldest grandchild...but the oldest of my group.of grandchildren. My grand parents had 12 children. My father was # 9...but there is about 10 of us around the same age..cousins and second cousins but at my grand parents house, 5 of us was there. Getting in trouble for messing with grandpa's huntin' dogs or getting a foot stuck in the outhouse hole...we caused a lot of grief to our grandma. I could share some wild stories.