More EU Madness!

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You seem to criticise John Major for not actually being a "conservative" because he supported a "globalist" project in the European Union, but I would say that free movement is a right-wing economic idea, and very inline with what I would expect from Conservatives. I always find it weird when people seem to naturally associate free movement with being liberal, when a lot of left-wing socialists are actually against it for left-wing economic reasons.

I voted to remain in the referendum, but have my issues with the EU and wish we would now get on with a sensible post-Brexit solution. Whilst I don't like a lot of things they do as an institution, I have never been opposed to the free movement of people from a social perspective, and absolutely believe we have a duty to support refugees.
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You can't win an argument just by being right!
I have never been opposed to the free movement of people from a social perspective, and absolutely believe we have a duty to support refugees.

Well said. All signatories to the Refugee Convention are obligated.



BTW, to the indigenous Europeans, when the time comes please flee to Australia or New Zealand, not here!
Where do you think we can go Don? No one will let us in. I have a family member who tried to legally emigrate to the US and was finally told to give up as Europeans are at the very bottom of the list of people being accepted in the US. Unless you're a Brit and a member of the Commonwealth, it's also extremely difficult to move to either Australia or NZ as I believe they only accept people whose professions are in short supply their countries. Yet, everyone in the world says Europeans must do more, must accept more people from Africa, from Asia, from wherever the hell they decide to come from. Not only that, we are also expected to provide them free housing, education and healthcare,
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And please, let's not talk about the poor "refugees". My country took in several thousand as our very Socialist government was all too eager to behave like the good little kid in class and appease Merkel and co when they demanded every European country must "share the burden". And so off they went to the camps in Italy and Greece to round up some Syrians and Eritreians and God knows what else. These people were received with all pomp and circumstance at the airport by government representatives who took them to their new homes: fully furnished apartments (complete with free food) and told they would be receiving free healthcare, free education, free lessons in their new language. This while there are thousand of my countrymen, living homeless in the streets. So what happens after a year? We've discovered that more than 40% of them have departed without so much as a by-your-leave presumably for the much wealthier countries of Northern Europe (the government actually has no idea where they went). Some of them stayed only long enough to receive their monthly stipend and left as soon as they could. I guess you could say that the mood amongst most people here is now not too friendly in terms receiving more "refugees". Far from seemimg the poor, desperate people that the press portrays they appear much more like a bunch of ingrates with a sense of entitlement.



You seem to criticise John Major for not actually being a "conservative" because he supported a "globalist" project in the European Union, but I would say that free movement is a right-wing economic idea, and very inline with what I would expect from Conservatives. I always find it weird when people seem to naturally associate free movement with being liberal, when a lot of left-wing socialists are actually against it for left-wing economic reasons.

I voted to remain in the referendum, but have my issues with the EU and wish we would now get on with a sensible post-Brexit solution. Whilst I don't like a lot of things they do as an institution, I have never been opposed to the free movement of people from a social perspective, and absolutely believe we have a duty to support refugees.
Perhaps you can explain something that mystifies conservatives in the United States. We don’t view Europe in general and the U.K. in particular as having viable conservative parties. Your Conservative Party is basically aligned with our Democratic Party, the liberal party. Why do you characterize Nigel Farage and UKIP as some sort of right wing extremists?

Farage acknowledges that it is critical that there be no more devastating wars in Europe and acknowledges that forming a trade block is a good way to facilitate that purpose. He favors good relations with Europe. That was supposed to be the goal of the original common market before it became much more. He simply wants to defend your borders and preserve your millennia old national identity and culture. How does that make him a right wing extremist as if he and they were mouthing Nazi rhetoric?



Where do you think we can go Don? No one will let us in. I have a family member who tried to legally emigrate to the US and was finally told to give up as Europeans are at the very bottom of the list of people being accepted in the US. Unless you're a Brit and a member of the Commonwealth, it's also extremely difficult to move to either Australia or NZ as I believe they only accept people whose professions are in short supply their countries. Yet, everyone in the world says Europeans must do more, must accept more people from Africa, from Asia, from wherever the hell they decide to come from. Not only that, we are also expected to provide them free housing, education and healthcare,
.
And please, let's not talk about the poor "refugees". My country took in several thousand as our very Socialist government was all too eager to behave like the good little kid in class and appease Merkel and co when they demanded every European country must "share the burden". And so off they went to the camps in Italy and Greece to round up some Syrians and Eritreians and God knows what else. These people were received with all pomp and circumstance at the airport by government representatives who took them to their new homes: fully furnished apartments (complete with free food) and told they would be receiving free healthcare, free education, free lessons in their new language. This while there are thousand of my countrymen, living homeless in the streets. So what happens after a year? We've discovered that more than 40% of them have departed without so much as a by-your-leave presumably for the much wealthier countries of Northern of Europe (the government actually has no idea where they went). Some of them stayed only long enough to receive their monthly stipend and left as soon as they could. I guess you could say that the mood amongst most people here is now not too friendly in terms receiving more "refugees". Far from seemimg the poor, desperate people that the press portrays they appear much more like a bunch of ingrates with a sense of entitlement.
I was only talking about the PC Europeans who have allowed and continue to allow this disaster to unfold, and not the good ones like you!



To all:

Here is an incisive interview and debate with Douglas Murray, the author of The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam:

(About 39 minutes)



I was only talking about the PC Europeans who have allowed and continue to allow this disaster to unfold, and not the good ones like you!
Really this is beyond funny now. So if we agree with you we're 'good Europeans' and if we disagree we're not even worth passing the time of day with? Good job that most of us Europeans don't judge Americans by your media and trust your people as we know them as citizens.



Really this is beyond funny now. So if we agree with you we're 'good Europeans' and if we disagree we're not even worth passing the time of day with? Good job that most of us Europeans don't judge Americans by your media and trust your people as we know them as citizens.
Oh, I'm disappointed. I was hoping you could answer my question to Daniel who is probably gone for the evening.



You can't win an argument just by being right!
Really this is beyond funny now. So if we agree with you we're 'good Europeans' and if we disagree we're not even worth passing the time of day with? Good job that most of us Europeans don't judge Americans by your media and trust your people as we know them as citizens.

I'll take 'PC Europeans' in my country any day of the week (whatever PC European means) over the narrow minded people scared of their own shadow that a brown person might have a rocket launcher in his back pocket or her scarf. In fact, I'm having coffee with my girlfriend Svetlana the Russian Goddess this morning. I'll ask her if she's 'PC'.



Oh, I'm disappointed. I was hoping you could answer my question to Daniel who is probably gone for the evening.
You don't comment on any of my posts now you realise I'm not a kid with no history, but you ask me to answer Daniels posts for him? He's perfectly capable of answering your questions himself, being a decent, educated young man with a broad minded outlook on life.

in Britain we have a far more complex political situation than you seem to understand (or want to listen to) You cannot judge our left and right political alignments in the same way as in the US. In Europe many countries have had Socialist ruling parties, you in the US haven't. We have had the threat of extreme right wing parties, we in the UK have had people like Oswald Moseley and his Fascists in the 1930s. We are a few hours travel away from Germany where Mosley and his minions were trying to get our government to cosy up to the Nazis. We've had the National Front in the 1970s, we have the EDL today, we don't like extremists in this country. Farage is a one trick pony, it just took the Brexit vote to collapse UKIP and expose them for what they are - a party ramping up people's fears of immigrants while totally ignoring what leaving the EU would do to the UK economy.



You don't comment on any of my posts now you realise I'm not a kid with no history, but you ask me to answer Daniels posts for him? He's perfectly capable of answering your questions himself, being a decent, educated young man with a broad minded outlook on life.

in Britain we have a far more complex political situation than you seem to understand (or want to listen to) You cannot judge our left and right political alignments in the same way as in the US. In Europe many countries have had Socialist ruling parties, you in the US haven't. We have had the threat of extreme right wing parties, we in the UK have had people like Oswald Moseley and his Fascists in the 1930s. We are a few hours travel away from Germany where Mosley and his minions were trying to get our government to cosy up to the Nazis. We've had the National Front in the 1970s, we have the EDL today, we don't like extremists in this country. Farage is a one trick pony, it just took the Brexit vote to collapse UKIP and expose them for what they are - a party ramping up people's fears of immigrants while totally ignoring what leaving the EU would do to the UK economy.
Thank you for your time. Ironic indeed. UKIP put themselves virtually out of business by actually getting what they wanted and campaigning so feverishly for for so very long.

I do understand your history, more than you think. I’m aware of who Moseley was. I just cannot understand why so many of your people seem so willing, even eager, to put yourselves out of business after so very long, from Billy the Conqueror and before! Whatever, one wonders, ever happened to: “Be British!”



You can't win an argument just by being right!
Do you even comprehend 'signatory to the refugee convention', Don?
Oh never mind. This is getting more than ridiculous.

I'll order a halal snack pack for you.



Do you even comprehend 'signatory to the refugee convention', Don?
Oh never mind. This is getting more than ridiculous.

I'll order a halal snack pack for you.
Yes, but I recently read a story about how many of these "refugees" supposedly “in fear for their lives,” go back to visit their homelands and families on a regular basis. I personally know a Syrian family (not refugees; been here many years as immigrants) who travel to Damascus often to visit family.



You can't win an argument just by being right!
You just contradicted yourself. Deary me.



You just contradicted yourself. Deary me.
How so? The point was that this particular Syrian family (refugees or not) is obviously not afraid to travel to Syria. The others that I referred to are supposedly "refugees" who are "afraid for their lives."

Good night.



You can't win an argument just by being right!
Stop tagging me please!

You said they were not refugees. Far out. And what you've read about refugees going back is up for anyone's guess. I read the same garbage when a 12 year old from my own country went to visit her dying grandfather for Ramadan and she was killed along with others in a Isis bomb in an ice-cream parlor. Lots of screaming just like yours of why she "went back". She was BORN here.



You can't win an argument just by being right!
And you yourself claimed earlier they would NOT go back. Good grief.



.....Europeans are at the very bottom of the list of people being accepted in the US.
I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but it is incorrect. It is the countries with high level of immigration to the US that have a more difficult time. EU countries are actually the ones with quite low levels of immigration to the US so the wait of their people applying to get here is quite a bit shorter than some other ones such as Mexico, China, the Philippines, and India. Married children of U.S. citizens from Mexico must wait more than 20 years for a visa to become available, and Filipino siblings of U.S. citizens currently wait about 25 years.

Is the process hard? Yes, it is hard for everyone, but if you are basing your opinion of how hard to get to the US on the wait times, it is a lot harder for the countries mentioned above than any EU country.
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“There's no place to hide, When you're lit from the inside” Roisin Murphy