The MoFo Top 100 of the Fifties: The Countdown
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My List:
1. 12 Angry Men
2. Dial M for Murder
3. The Bridge on the River Kwai
4. Stalag 17
5. The 400 Blows
6. The Enemy Below
7. The Man Who Knew Too Much
8. The Ten Commandments
9. North by Northwest
10. On the Waterfront
11. Ace in the Hole
12. Paths of Glory
13. The Trouble with Harry
14. The Nun's Story
15. Rear Window
16. Vertigo
17. Sunset Boulevard
18. Rio Bravo
19. The African Queen
20. The Flame and the Arrow
21. Singin' in the Rain
22. Bad Day at Black Rock
23. A Streetcar Named Desire
24. The Night of the Hunter
25. No Way Out
1. 12 Angry Men
2. Dial M for Murder
3. The Bridge on the River Kwai
4. Stalag 17
5. The 400 Blows
6. The Enemy Below
7. The Man Who Knew Too Much
8. The Ten Commandments
9. North by Northwest
10. On the Waterfront
11. Ace in the Hole
12. Paths of Glory
13. The Trouble with Harry
14. The Nun's Story
15. Rear Window
16. Vertigo
17. Sunset Boulevard
18. Rio Bravo
19. The African Queen
20. The Flame and the Arrow
21. Singin' in the Rain
22. Bad Day at Black Rock
23. A Streetcar Named Desire
24. The Night of the Hunter
25. No Way Out
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A fantastic compilation indeed!
![](https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m012qqWobt1rn5b0zo1_400.gif)
Great job, Raul!
Here's my complete list:
1. Rashomon (1950)
2. Pather Panchali (1955)
3. 12 Angry Men (1957)
4. Seven Samurai (1954)
5. Wild Strawberries (1957)
6. Tokyo Story (1953)
7. Jalsaghar [The Music Room] (1958)
8. The Seventh Seal (1957)
9. The Wages of Fear (1953)
10. On the Waterfront (1954)
11. Ugestu (1953)
12. High Noon (1952)
13. The Bridge on the River Kwai (1957)
14. Ben-Hur (1959)
15. The Ten Commandments (1956)
16. Paths of Glory (1957)
17. Les diaboliques (1955)
18. The 400 Blows (1959)
19. The Incredible Shrinking Man (1957)
20. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
21. Rear Window (1954)
22. Vertigo (1958)
23. Sunset Boulevard (1950)
24. Roman Holiday (1953)
25. Singin' in the Rain (1952)
![](https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m012qqWobt1rn5b0zo1_400.gif)
Great job, Raul!
Here's my complete list:
1. Rashomon (1950)
2. Pather Panchali (1955)
3. 12 Angry Men (1957)
4. Seven Samurai (1954)
5. Wild Strawberries (1957)
6. Tokyo Story (1953)
7. Jalsaghar [The Music Room] (1958)
8. The Seventh Seal (1957)
9. The Wages of Fear (1953)
10. On the Waterfront (1954)
11. Ugestu (1953)
12. High Noon (1952)
13. The Bridge on the River Kwai (1957)
14. Ben-Hur (1959)
15. The Ten Commandments (1956)
16. Paths of Glory (1957)
17. Les diaboliques (1955)
18. The 400 Blows (1959)
19. The Incredible Shrinking Man (1957)
20. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
21. Rear Window (1954)
22. Vertigo (1958)
23. Sunset Boulevard (1950)
24. Roman Holiday (1953)
25. Singin' in the Rain (1952)
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Thank You Raul for running a great countdown! You did a fantastic job! ![Thumbs Up](/community/images/smilies/thumbs_up.gif)
It should have been easy to figure out that 12 Angry Men was #1 on my list because I nominated it for the second 50s HoF. I was hoping that would give it the push it needed to top this countdown, and it looks like it worked.
My 1950s List:
1. 12 Angry Men (1957)
2. An Affair to Remember (1957)
3. Singin' in the Rain (1952)
4. Oklahoma! (1955)
5. Dial M for Murder (1954)
6. Brigadoon (1954)
7. North by Northwest (1959)
8. The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951)
9. Damn Yankees (1958)
10. Strangers on a Train (1951)
11. Harvey (1950)
12. Annie Get Your Gun (1950)
13. Calamity Jane (1953)
14. Carousel (1956)
15. The Gazebo (1959)
16. The Pajama Game (1957)
17. Hans Christian Andersen (1952)
18. Pillow Talk (1959)
19. The Court Jester (1955 or 1956)
20. Tea for Two (1950)
21. The Solid Gold Cadillac (1956)
22. It Should Happen to You (1954)
23. Vertigo (1958)
24. Rear Window (1954)
25. Hopefully will be on the one-pointers list.
All the movies listed in red were on my list, but they didn't make the countdown.
Hopefully some of you will at least watch some of these movies, and maybe even love them as much as I love them.
Or, maybe not.
Whether or not he's innocent is not the point of the movie. The point is that the 12 jurors went into the jury room so sure that he was guilty that they were ready to convict him in just a few minutes, but one lone juror was able to show the other 11 jurors that it wasn't as clear-cut as it seemed, and there was room for doubt.
![Thumbs Up](/community/images/smilies/thumbs_up.gif)
I see five people other than me had it as their #1: step forward and be counted! ![Smilie](/community/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Smilie](/community/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Big Grin](/community/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
My 1950s List:
1. 12 Angry Men (1957)
2. An Affair to Remember (1957)
3. Singin' in the Rain (1952)
4. Oklahoma! (1955)
5. Dial M for Murder (1954)
6. Brigadoon (1954)
7. North by Northwest (1959)
8. The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951)
9. Damn Yankees (1958)
10. Strangers on a Train (1951)
11. Harvey (1950)
12. Annie Get Your Gun (1950)
13. Calamity Jane (1953)
14. Carousel (1956)
15. The Gazebo (1959)
16. The Pajama Game (1957)
17. Hans Christian Andersen (1952)
18. Pillow Talk (1959)
19. The Court Jester (1955 or 1956)
20. Tea for Two (1950)
21. The Solid Gold Cadillac (1956)
22. It Should Happen to You (1954)
23. Vertigo (1958)
24. Rear Window (1954)
25. Hopefully will be on the one-pointers list.
All the movies listed in red were on my list, but they didn't make the countdown.
![Frown](/community/images/smilies/frown.gif)
![Smilie](/community/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![Shrug](/community/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
12 Angry Men...won, for all of you who had it on your list, I have one question, was the kid accused of murder, innocent?
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Oh, and for my countdown #1's, I'm usually pretty far off the mark, and sometimes, my #1's don't even make the countdown.
1950s: 12 Angry Men (1957) (#1)
1960s: Sunday in New York (1963) (#200)
1970s: Close Encounters of the Third Kind (#14)
Animation: WALL-E (2008) (#4)
Documentaries: Raiding the Lost Ark: A Filmumentary (Jamie Benning-2012) (#131)
![Shrug](/community/images/smilies/shrug.gif)
1950s: 12 Angry Men (1957) (#1)
1960s: Sunday in New York (1963) (#200)
1970s: Close Encounters of the Third Kind (#14)
Animation: WALL-E (2008) (#4)
Documentaries: Raiding the Lost Ark: A Filmumentary (Jamie Benning-2012) (#131)
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Since I am at the library's computer, I only have about 30 minutes left on here, but I have finally made it through all of the posts that I missed in this countdown and now I will reveal my list:
1. Compulsion
2. Dial M for Murder (14)
3. Harvey (31)
4. Marty (100)
5. Strangers On a Train (32)
6. Oklahoma (97)
7. A Face In the Crowd (49)
8. The Defiant Ones
9. Giant (77)
10. Singin' In the Rain (10)
11. High Noon (28)
12. Father Of the Bride
13. Friendly Persuasion
14. Witness For the Prosecution (24)
15. Cat On a Hot Tin Roof (62)
16. The Diary of Anne Frank
17. The Importance of Being Earnest
18. To Hell and Back
19. Julius Caesar
20. Blackboard Jungle
21. Somebody Up There Likes Me
22. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers
23. Anatomy Of a Murder (35)
24. Smiles Of a Summer Night (56)
25. Pillow Talk
I made the one-pointer list for the 60's, but I know my 25th film won't make it this time because I know I saw it on someone else's list.
1. Compulsion
2. Dial M for Murder (14)
3. Harvey (31)
4. Marty (100)
5. Strangers On a Train (32)
6. Oklahoma (97)
7. A Face In the Crowd (49)
8. The Defiant Ones
9. Giant (77)
10. Singin' In the Rain (10)
11. High Noon (28)
12. Father Of the Bride
13. Friendly Persuasion
14. Witness For the Prosecution (24)
15. Cat On a Hot Tin Roof (62)
16. The Diary of Anne Frank
17. The Importance of Being Earnest
18. To Hell and Back
19. Julius Caesar
20. Blackboard Jungle
21. Somebody Up There Likes Me
22. Seven Brides for Seven Brothers
23. Anatomy Of a Murder (35)
24. Smiles Of a Summer Night (56)
25. Pillow Talk
I made the one-pointer list for the 60's, but I know my 25th film won't make it this time because I know I saw it on someone else's list.
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Thanks for hosting Raul.
Even though I didn't give it a lot of points I'd have liked to see Sunset Blvd win.
Nostromo's 1950s List
#25. Queen of Outer Space (1958)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/egtu0x.jpg)
#24. Attack Of The 50 Foot Woman (1958)
![](http://oi68.tinypic.com/2utrq54.jpg)
#23. Bell, Book & Candle (1958)
![](http://oi65.tinypic.com/osx56d.jpg)
Jimmy Stewart, Kim Novak, Jack Lemmon, & witchcraft!
#22. Paths of Glory (1957)
![](http://oi68.tinypic.com/2zz0n7p.jpg)
#21. Sunset Blvd (1950)
![](http://oi65.tinypic.com/2zfl4eg.jpg)
Several years ago I'd have put this #1, probably
#20. I Was A Teenage Werewolf (1957)
![](http://oi66.tinypic.com/2q399pf.jpg)
A James Dean clone werewolf movie
#19. House on Haunted Hill (1959)
![](http://oi65.tinypic.com/2mi46qa.jpg)
#18. House of Wax (1953)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/jig7r8.jpg)
#17. Plan 9 From Outer Space (1959)
![](http://oi66.tinypic.com/sfxmv7.jpg)
#16. Curse Of The Demon (1957)
![](http://oi63.tinypic.com/bielz.jpg)
#15. Treasure Island (1950)
![](http://oi63.tinypic.com/29aplbb.jpg)
#14. The 7th Voyage Of Sinbad (1958)
![](http://oi66.tinypic.com/bi8gnp.jpg)
#13. Alice In Wonderland (1951)
![](http://oi63.tinypic.com/2rm1cwh.jpg)
#12. The Creature From The Black Lagoon (1954)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/4pyxd.jpg)
#11. The Mummy (1959)
![](http://oi63.tinypic.com/2v2ec76.jpg)
#10. The Fly (1958)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/mmc5n8.jpg)
#9. Horror Of Dracula (1958)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/esolkl.jpg)
#8. The Mad Magician (1954)
![](http://oi64.tinypic.com/ao0sw7.jpg)
Underseen Vincent Price gem
#7. A Christmas Carol (1951)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/66m6o4.jpg)
There are so many versions of it, I'm most likely to see this or the George C. Scott version. Also wanted it to be like I am giving Marilyn Monroe and Jayne Mansfield for Christmas
#6. The Seven Year Itch (1955)
![](http://oi63.tinypic.com/qssdhs.jpg)
#5. Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? (1957)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/2r597no.jpg)
Jayne did it! She beat Marilyn Monroe finally
#4. The Girl Can't Help It (1956)
![](http://oi66.tinypic.com/28qvng0.jpg)
#3. Gidget (1959)
![](http://oi66.tinypic.com/2ajnp0y.jpg)
A little teenage girl goes to the beach and gets made fun of by her friends and the older surfer boys. She decides she wants to become a surfer girl, after almost drowning 20 feet from shore. A heartfelt film. I can't believe I put Gidget ahead of Marilyn Monroe and Jayne Mansfield.
#2. King Creole (1958)
![](http://oi65.tinypic.com/2nsot2d.jpg)
Underseen, underrated classic
#1. Viva Zapata! (1952)
![](http://oi63.tinypic.com/wtytrm.jpg)
Movie made me do push-ups and smoke a cigar at the same time, so it has to win
The End
Even though I didn't give it a lot of points I'd have liked to see Sunset Blvd win.
Nostromo's 1950s List
#25. Queen of Outer Space (1958)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/egtu0x.jpg)
#24. Attack Of The 50 Foot Woman (1958)
![](http://oi68.tinypic.com/2utrq54.jpg)
#23. Bell, Book & Candle (1958)
![](http://oi65.tinypic.com/osx56d.jpg)
Jimmy Stewart, Kim Novak, Jack Lemmon, & witchcraft!
#22. Paths of Glory (1957)
![](http://oi68.tinypic.com/2zz0n7p.jpg)
#21. Sunset Blvd (1950)
![](http://oi65.tinypic.com/2zfl4eg.jpg)
Several years ago I'd have put this #1, probably
#20. I Was A Teenage Werewolf (1957)
![](http://oi66.tinypic.com/2q399pf.jpg)
A James Dean clone werewolf movie
#19. House on Haunted Hill (1959)
![](http://oi65.tinypic.com/2mi46qa.jpg)
#18. House of Wax (1953)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/jig7r8.jpg)
#17. Plan 9 From Outer Space (1959)
![](http://oi66.tinypic.com/sfxmv7.jpg)
#16. Curse Of The Demon (1957)
![](http://oi63.tinypic.com/bielz.jpg)
#15. Treasure Island (1950)
![](http://oi63.tinypic.com/29aplbb.jpg)
#14. The 7th Voyage Of Sinbad (1958)
![](http://oi66.tinypic.com/bi8gnp.jpg)
#13. Alice In Wonderland (1951)
![](http://oi63.tinypic.com/2rm1cwh.jpg)
#12. The Creature From The Black Lagoon (1954)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/4pyxd.jpg)
#11. The Mummy (1959)
![](http://oi63.tinypic.com/2v2ec76.jpg)
#10. The Fly (1958)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/mmc5n8.jpg)
#9. Horror Of Dracula (1958)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/esolkl.jpg)
#8. The Mad Magician (1954)
![](http://oi64.tinypic.com/ao0sw7.jpg)
Underseen Vincent Price gem
#7. A Christmas Carol (1951)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/66m6o4.jpg)
There are so many versions of it, I'm most likely to see this or the George C. Scott version. Also wanted it to be like I am giving Marilyn Monroe and Jayne Mansfield for Christmas
#6. The Seven Year Itch (1955)
![](http://oi63.tinypic.com/qssdhs.jpg)
#5. Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter? (1957)
![](http://oi67.tinypic.com/2r597no.jpg)
Jayne did it! She beat Marilyn Monroe finally
#4. The Girl Can't Help It (1956)
![](http://oi66.tinypic.com/28qvng0.jpg)
#3. Gidget (1959)
![](http://oi66.tinypic.com/2ajnp0y.jpg)
A little teenage girl goes to the beach and gets made fun of by her friends and the older surfer boys. She decides she wants to become a surfer girl, after almost drowning 20 feet from shore. A heartfelt film. I can't believe I put Gidget ahead of Marilyn Monroe and Jayne Mansfield.
#2. King Creole (1958)
![](http://oi65.tinypic.com/2nsot2d.jpg)
Underseen, underrated classic
#1. Viva Zapata! (1952)
![](http://oi63.tinypic.com/wtytrm.jpg)
Movie made me do push-ups and smoke a cigar at the same time, so it has to win
The End
So I don't want to be that person, but uh... when can I start crossin' stuff out?
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Top 100 Action Movie Countdown (2015): List | Thread
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Excellent work, Dustin. ![Smilie](/community/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I had the last two films on my list, as you can see. Anyway, here's what the top 25 should've looked like.
1. Seven Samurai
2. All About Eve
3. The Cruel Sea
4. Les Diabolique
5. Sunset Boulevard
6. Invasion Of The Body Snatchers
7. Throne Of Blood
8. Night And Fog
9. Niagara
10. The Dam Busters
11. The Sweet Smell Of Success
12. 12 Angry Men
13. Dracula (The Horror Of Dracula)
14. Singin' In The Rain
15. The Asphalt Jungle
16. Touch Of Evil
17. Them!
18. House On Haunted Hill
19. The Seventh Seal
20. An Inspector Calls
21. Julius Caesar
22. Carve Her Name With Pride
23. I'm All Right Jack
24. The House Of Wax
25. The Killer Shrews
![Smilie](/community/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I had the last two films on my list, as you can see. Anyway, here's what the top 25 should've looked like.
1. Seven Samurai
2. All About Eve
3. The Cruel Sea
4. Les Diabolique
5. Sunset Boulevard
6. Invasion Of The Body Snatchers
7. Throne Of Blood
8. Night And Fog
9. Niagara
10. The Dam Busters
11. The Sweet Smell Of Success
12. 12 Angry Men
13. Dracula (The Horror Of Dracula)
14. Singin' In The Rain
15. The Asphalt Jungle
16. Touch Of Evil
17. Them!
18. House On Haunted Hill
19. The Seventh Seal
20. An Inspector Calls
21. Julius Caesar
22. Carve Her Name With Pride
23. I'm All Right Jack
24. The House Of Wax
25. The Killer Shrews
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My whole list (well, except the film that might still be revealed as a one-pointer):
1. Rashomon (1950) (#9)
2. Tokyo Story (1953) (#21)
3. Seven Samurai (1954) (#6)
4. The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956) (#47)
5. Vertigo (1958) (#4)
6. Floating Weeds (1959) (#78)
7. Paths of Glory (1957) (#8)
8. Early Summer (1951)
9. Tokyo Twilight (1957) (#91)
10. Early Spring (1956)
11. The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice (1952)
12. The Killing (1956) (#52)
13. The Ballad of Narayama (1958)
14. Throne of Blood (1957) (#38)
15. Ikiru (1952) (#16)
16. Forbidden Planet (1956) (#55)
17. North by Northwest (1959) (#5)
18. The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951) (#36)
19. The Seventh Seal (1957) (#13)
20. Rear Window (1954) (#2)
21. Rebel Without a Cause (1955) (#39)
22. Sunset Boulevard (1950) (#3)
23. Othello (1952)
24. The 7th Voyage of Sinbad (1958)
25. Probably a one-pointer
1. Rashomon (1950) (#9)
2. Tokyo Story (1953) (#21)
3. Seven Samurai (1954) (#6)
4. The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956) (#47)
5. Vertigo (1958) (#4)
6. Floating Weeds (1959) (#78)
7. Paths of Glory (1957) (#8)
8. Early Summer (1951)
9. Tokyo Twilight (1957) (#91)
10. Early Spring (1956)
11. The Flavor of Green Tea over Rice (1952)
12. The Killing (1956) (#52)
13. The Ballad of Narayama (1958)
14. Throne of Blood (1957) (#38)
15. Ikiru (1952) (#16)
16. Forbidden Planet (1956) (#55)
17. North by Northwest (1959) (#5)
18. The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951) (#36)
19. The Seventh Seal (1957) (#13)
20. Rear Window (1954) (#2)
21. Rebel Without a Cause (1955) (#39)
22. Sunset Boulevard (1950) (#3)
23. Othello (1952)
24. The 7th Voyage of Sinbad (1958)
25. Probably a one-pointer
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Thanks for posting that Yoda, very interesting, I enjoyed watching it. Yes the cinematography was amazing. An excerpt from my review of 12 Angry Men
I was impressed with the cinematography, especially the establishing camera shot of the court house building. I loved the way the camera made the building look monolithic and imposing. Then the camera goes inside to an upper deck and looks down at the people coming into the building, and it makes them look so small and insignificant....Brilliantly done!
Then the camera shot becomes close up and personal as we follow different people down the corridors. Finally the camera pauses for 2 seconds at these huge and foreboding court room doors. Then into the courtroom itself.....What a wonderful done opening shot!
Then the camera shot becomes close up and personal as we follow different people down the corridors. Finally the camera pauses for 2 seconds at these huge and foreboding court room doors. Then into the courtroom itself.....What a wonderful done opening shot!
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Ned's 25 50s List
1 Rio Bravo
2 Treasure Island
3 The Ten Commandments
4 Seven Samurai
5 Godzilla
6 Old Yeller
7 North By Northwest
8 Vertigo
9 Ben-Hur
10 The Searchers
11 Shane
12 The Robe
13 Rear Window
14 Creature From The Black Lagoon
15 Peter Pan
16 The African Queen
17 High Noon
18 Cinderella
19 Hondo
20 Day The Earth Stood Still
21 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea
22 Lady And The Tramp
23 Blood Alley
24 Alice In Wonderland
25 Ivanhoe.
1 Rio Bravo
2 Treasure Island
3 The Ten Commandments
4 Seven Samurai
5 Godzilla
6 Old Yeller
7 North By Northwest
8 Vertigo
9 Ben-Hur
10 The Searchers
11 Shane
12 The Robe
13 Rear Window
14 Creature From The Black Lagoon
15 Peter Pan
16 The African Queen
17 High Noon
18 Cinderella
19 Hondo
20 Day The Earth Stood Still
21 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea
22 Lady And The Tramp
23 Blood Alley
24 Alice In Wonderland
25 Ivanhoe.
Excerpt from my review:
Ultimately as much as crime solving may be an interesting idea for a movie, it doesn't appear to be the purpose of this movie. We never see the defendant again after the opening and really the movie neither seems to be about the characters themselves or the legal process. It seems to be about nothing less than the value of rationality in the pursuit of justice.
We have a sort of Inception moment partway through the movie where Fonda's character, Davis (he's one of maybe 3 characters ever named, but not referred to by name), is in the bathroom and another character asks him, "What if you convince all of us he's innocent and he really did do it?"
That's a good question, what if he really did do it? Reasonable doubt is not proof, so even if everybody sides Not Guilty, it's still possible the kid committed the crime and gets away with it.
The movie never explores this question, but perhaps because the answer should be reasonable to infer given the course of reasoning offered to us? Okay, let's say he did it: What does that mean?
It doesn't mean he'll kill again. It doesn't mean he didn't feel bad about it. It doesn't even mean the murder wasn't justified. All it means is that a criminal wasn't punished.
The inverse of that is an innocent who is punished.
Not punishing a criminal isn't an inherent moral wrong, it's a neutral judgment. If the punishment is death then it's a crime we are committing which is morally excusable. It's not morally "good" to put criminals to death, but it's not morally "bad" either, SO LONG... as the criminal in question is actually guilty and deserving of that level of judgment.
That's what's in question here. Davis begins the movie with no hard evidence to suggest the kid's innocence, but circumstances provoke him to question the fairness of such a verdict. Maybe he is guilty, but is he guilty of a crime worth killing him for?
Even if none of that were in question though, the original question still remains an important one: What if he's guilty and he gets away with it?
Well, then that presents us a new conundrum: Which is worse? To give a killer a second chance or to condemn an innocent to death?
I think the implications speak for themselves: What we have to lose letting a killer go free is indefinite, and while it could potentially prove far more disastrous than one innocent death, one innocent death is precisely a consequence we can be certain of if we make the wrong decision. And even then it begs the question of whether condemning innocents can even be justified given a certain outcome.
What sort of justice is that?
We have a sort of Inception moment partway through the movie where Fonda's character, Davis (he's one of maybe 3 characters ever named, but not referred to by name), is in the bathroom and another character asks him, "What if you convince all of us he's innocent and he really did do it?"
That's a good question, what if he really did do it? Reasonable doubt is not proof, so even if everybody sides Not Guilty, it's still possible the kid committed the crime and gets away with it.
The movie never explores this question, but perhaps because the answer should be reasonable to infer given the course of reasoning offered to us? Okay, let's say he did it: What does that mean?
It doesn't mean he'll kill again. It doesn't mean he didn't feel bad about it. It doesn't even mean the murder wasn't justified. All it means is that a criminal wasn't punished.
The inverse of that is an innocent who is punished.
Not punishing a criminal isn't an inherent moral wrong, it's a neutral judgment. If the punishment is death then it's a crime we are committing which is morally excusable. It's not morally "good" to put criminals to death, but it's not morally "bad" either, SO LONG... as the criminal in question is actually guilty and deserving of that level of judgment.
That's what's in question here. Davis begins the movie with no hard evidence to suggest the kid's innocence, but circumstances provoke him to question the fairness of such a verdict. Maybe he is guilty, but is he guilty of a crime worth killing him for?
Even if none of that were in question though, the original question still remains an important one: What if he's guilty and he gets away with it?
Well, then that presents us a new conundrum: Which is worse? To give a killer a second chance or to condemn an innocent to death?
I think the implications speak for themselves: What we have to lose letting a killer go free is indefinite, and while it could potentially prove far more disastrous than one innocent death, one innocent death is precisely a consequence we can be certain of if we make the wrong decision. And even then it begs the question of whether condemning innocents can even be justified given a certain outcome.
What sort of justice is that?
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12 Angry Men is an engrossing movie by a great director but I would like it more if it was as nuanced a take on crime and punishment as Omnizoa describes it to be. It just seems wrongheaded the way it camps out in Fonda's corner while he plays devil's advocate to heaps and heaps of circumstantial evidence. Then it ends on this triumphant note of letting a killer go free in the name of... what exactly? If the movie ever gets a gritty reboot they should flip the script and have a sane hero convince 11 bleeding hearts that they don't understand what reasonable doubt means
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You're taking whatsisname's article which supposedly disproves the reasonable doubt too seriously.
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It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
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It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
My IMDb page
Last edited by mark f; 10-09-16 at 07:29 AM.
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