18th Mofo Hall of Fame

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Will likely need links for Split and Abandon Ship so I'd appreciate if anyone can help out with those.
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Originally Posted by Iroquois
To be fair, you have to have a fairly high IQ to understand MovieForums.com.



I didn't join this HoF because I'm still trying to catch up on 2018 releases, and haven't done any rewatches for the Horror Countdown yet. But I have been creeping on the thread, and will probably continue to do so going forward haha.

Out of the three nominations that I've seen, Perfect Blue is definitely my favourite. I rewatched it not too long ago, and liked it a lot more the second time around. Out of Satoshi Kon's work, I'd probably rank Paprika, Millennium Actress, and Tokyo Godfathers ahead of it, but it's still a very solid film. I thought that Bubba Ho-Tep was alright, but I haven't seen it in at least 10 years so I have no idea what I'd think of it on a rewatch. I haven't seen Snow White in even longer, but I never really liked it when I was a kid, and don't really have any interest in revisiting it.

I might check out Road to Perdition, since it looks like something I might enjoy, even though I don't really like Tom Hanks. I'd heard of it before, but waved it off since for some reason I thought it was like The Road to Avonlea.



Here's my review of my own nomination. Didn't copy it here yesterday in case there would be more chat about noms in general but here it is now:

Brimstone (2016) R

"People think it's the flames that make Hell unbearable. It's not. It is the absence of love."

After a child dies during birth Liz, the midwife held responsible, isn't afraid of the father's drunken rage but the newly arrived reverend. Her past has finally caught up with her and everyone she loves is in danger.


Brimstone is brutal and gut-wrenching story of abuse and control. In it the religion is only a tool for oppression and fertile ground for evil to take root. Its tragedies are born of madness and unquestioning faith where cruelty becomes a virtue with a proper Bible quote. It's also a story of rebellion and love, of making a choice instead of following blindly.

With all it's religious undertones Brimstone feels almost biblical (or maybe anti-biblical). It's like Abraham and Isaac but in the film we have mothers and daughters who eventually refuse the sacrifice and rise against their divine oppressor. Some have complained that Brimstone is misogynist but in my opinion it's the opposite.

Cinematography and direction is great, music is OK (not very memorable but definitely not annoying) and script is mostly good as well (it's silly how Fanning's character doesn't seem to be able to make any sound due to her cut tongue though). Acting is brilliant (especially Pearce does one of the most vile and evil villains ever). I think some small edits could have been made to cut the length a bit.

Brimstone does things you don't expect from modern movies and I applaud it for that. It's heavy and brutal and makes you feel miserable. It has no major flaws, just some minor things keeping it little shy of the perfect rating.

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10 minutes into Split...well good news @pahaK Child Bride might no longer be my goto for terrible Hall of Fame choices.
On one hand that makes me kinda happy but on the other hand I'm worried by the fact that I still need to watch Split Maybe I'm lucky and we just disagree on the film...



All right, I've very recently seen my nomination, Snow White, so here's my review from a couple of weeks ago, abridged.

What is a protagonist? literaryterms.net defines it as:

just another word for “main character.” The story circles around this character’s experiences, and the audience is invited to see the world from his or her perspective. Note that the protagonist is not necessarily a “good guy.” Although most of the time the protagonist is some kind of hero, sometimes we see the whole story from the perspective of a villain.

From that definition, which I think is a pretty good one that most authors/artists used when drawing their protagonists, the protagonist of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is in fact the evil queen, whose jealousy and hatred eventually destroys her and all she worked towards. By this standard, which I think Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs was intended to be viewed as for adults, this film is an utter masterpiece, not only original and breathtakingly beautiful, but like nothing else Disney ever produced again. It is perhaps Disney's oddest film, the more I think about it. Even with Pinocchio, their second film, Disney had added in the "questioning of existence" part of their animated characters, and ever since, through Beauty and the Beast, The Lion King and up until Ralph Breaks the Internet, Disney heroes (notice I don't say protagonist) always have fought against both themselves and some existential force. Snow White, who I think is our hero, does not do this. Instead, she remains the most innocent, gullible, and stupid creation of Disney's. But this isn't necessarily a flaw, because Snow White isn't the character who is presenting the message and themes. It is the evil queen. So, although Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is incredibly dated from the perspective of female and male stereotypes, not-so-funny humor, and animation style, it's freshness penetrates through due to the evil queen's oddly relatable jealousy that dominates the film.

The characters are an interesting and fascinating thing in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. Of course there is Snow White, a boring and predictable stereotype of the helpless princess. She charms animals, charms dwarfs, charms the prince, and everything ends happily for her. There does seem to be something almost unfair about how Snow White's naivety gets her to a beautiful life. But I also think there is a ring of truth to that- ignorance is bliss, as the saying goes, and we are often charmed by the innocent or the "stupid" people in our lives, who don't know what's going on but are still kind, and caring, and sweet. But Snow White isn't the film's focus, anyways. In fact, she can almost be seen as an antagonist. The only true goal in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is that of the evil queen, who hopes to become the fairest in the land. By killing Snow White - who the magic mirror has said is fairer then her - she can then be without question the most beautiful. The actions that follow in the film are the rising actions of the queen. As she pursues her goal, she succeeds in killing the innocent Snow White... but overlooks her own power and beauty and accidentally kills herself. So the failure of the evil queen relays the themes and values of the movie, not the successes of Snow White, who has no real goal that we can relate to. As for the dwarfs, they are good facile characters, who propel the plot of both the queen and of Snow White.

The themes and values I think are the most interesting part of all of Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. To understand them, we must look at the evil queen as the protagonist once again. By killing Snow White, the evil queen has partially achieved her goal. If the film had ended with that, then perhaps a theme would have been that hatred and jealousy will prevail without consequence in an innocent world. By contrast, the fact that the queen dies changes the theme entirely, and notably without the effect of Snow White. The theme now is that jealousy, greed, and hatred will always come around and bite its owner. In Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs this is portrayed by a random lightning strike, making her death seem like fate. However, the fact that Snow White's friends are the ones that chased the queen to her fateful rock is more important. The good and the noble of this world, Disney is saying, will always fight back against evil; Thus, jealousy and hatred will be returned in due time. And now for the fascinating part, at least for me; I don't see that in any other Disney film. As stereotypical of a message it is, the final climax for every protagonist in most other Disney films occurs when the protagonist overcomes their conflict, learns to have confidence, or love, or forgive... the fighting evil part always seems to be in the background. They are two totally different messages that Disney gives us, and Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is one of their only films where this is not questioned - Snow White should go with her prince, the evil queen should die (it is only right), and the dwarfs should take care of her and love her. They can be seen as "fantastical" and "unrealistic," but actually the more I see it relates more to real life than the heroic and questioning characters of the Disney Renaissance and beyond.

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs is worthy of praise for what it is as a film, not just what it influenced. Besides being the first fully animated movie of all time, it creates a magical atmosphere and themes that I don't see cropped up in any modern Disney movies. It presents a different look at culture, one where our "heroes" don't always question their purpose and one where the protagonist is a villain consumed by utmost jealousy. In the end, Snow White and her prince walk into their glorious palace, and I felt an odd feeling come over. And the truth is, it's because I realized Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs takes place in a world that is alien. Other Disney films have relatable locations or real locations... but nothing like this, a place that seems in the middle of the wilderness, where the animals understand us, where nothing stops a young girl from entering and making herself at home in a cottage, where a prince is always waiting around the corner; it is a beautiful world, but one removed from ours, all except for the evil queen. And perhaps the evil queen isn't so evil... she is the only real "human" in the film anyways, and the character that creates the themes and values of the film. And that is why Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs as a film is so relatable, but the world it takes place in is so different. It creates something new, always inventing and connects to me so well.

Rating:




Split (1989)

That's a screen shot from the video I watched. The image quality wasn't good and I bet that will effect people's enjoyment of the film. I try not to let poor IQ effect how I feel about a nom, but I sure wish I could've seen this on DVD.

I do think this film has merit. I bet most won't see that quality, but what I perceived was an experimental indie film that really tried to break new grounds in camera work and special effects...and all done on what must have been a shoe string budget. Some of the scene dissolves and the transitions from first focal point to second focal point to a third focal point were very effective. I do think if Orson Welles was alive he would've been impressed with the film's auteurs improvisation on film technique.

I wasn't much into the actual story though, but this is an out there art film more so than a standard flick, so the narrative isn't as important as the look of the film. That's why I say if I had seen a clean print on DVD I might have been even more impressed.

What intrigued me is: this nom seems so much like Joel. I've seen Joel's artwork he's created and read his colorful post on the board, and I swear this movie is like a vision into his artistically creative mind. I thought that was a pretty cool thing. As soon as I started watching the film I image Joel's presences was invibed into Split.





Abandon Ship (a.k.a. Seven Days from Now, Seven Waves Away) (Richard Sale, 1957)
Imdb

Date Watched: 01/28/19
Cinema or Home: Home
Reason For Watching: 18th MoFo Hall of Fame, nominated by Citizen Rules
Rewatch: No.


The premise of Seven Days From Now was strong and I did like how it made me think. However, there were quite a number of things about the film that bothered me or that I felt could have been done better.

My biggest gripe is the lack of character development. It's not often that I think a film could be improved by adding length, but in this case I think it would have been of benefit. As character after character died or was cast out to die, I felt very little because I didn't feel as if I knew them at all. An alternative to extending the film would have been to trim out some of its offal, in particular that pointless opening scene on the raft. I also found that scene distracting since the film takes the time to introduce us to the people on the raft but then we never see them again and I was left to wonder about their fates instead of focusing more intently on the events on the lifeboat. I was also a bit bothered by the inconsistencies and sometimes illogicality of decisions made by Alec and others. I know that they're human and humans make mistakes but I was particularly bothered by what happened after the death of the ship's captain and his body being dropped into the sea. Surely the space that was previously taken by a wounded man lying down could've accommodated at least one or two of the people left clinging to the sides in shark infested water, yet Alec ignored their pleas. I also don't recall anyone getting off the lifeboat in order to make room for Alec and the nurse to come aboard, so how was there room for those two but not room for two of the people in water? Speaking of those dangerous waters: if every person must do his or her fair share, why did Alec and his girl not take their turns in the water? The other thing that bothered me - at the risk of sounding heartless - was Alec's insistence on saving the child. He kept insisting that there be no "dead weight" and that only those strong enough to row and do his/her share of the work to save them would be spared. Yet he cast out the 18 year old. I get that the guy was small and not especially strong, but surely he would've been able to contribute more than the actual child? I feel like even the old woman would've been more helpful than the kid.

Ultimately a thought-provoking but irritatingly flawed film that I respect well enough but did not enjoy.

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Had to start with Tom Hanks as one of my streaming services has the film until the end of this month.

Road to Perdition (2002) R

A mob enforcer's son accidentally witnesses his father at work. Things go even more wrong after the boss's idiot son panics and decides to get rid of the witness.


It's been quite a while (about 15 years) since I last saw this but I remembered there's something that bothered me. It took me most of the film to figure out what it was. I absolutely hate the ending and the philosophy behind it. That's half a popcorn off the rating right there.

Visually Road to Perdition is beautiful and while I haven't read the comic I can imagine what it looks like. Its depiction of 1930s cities is almost surely flattering but definitely pleasing to the eye. Same goes to costumes and gear - pretty but little too polished and clean all the time. Film Noir styled rainy scenes add some darker tones to the palette.

There's a somber atmosphere in the film and it's rather obvious that there's no happy ending to this. I don't mind the predictability as it comes with the style but those character choices and reactions during the finale were awful. Otherwise characters were quite good and so was the acting (I don't like Hanks though and would have preferred someone else on the leading role).

Initially I though this was better than I remembered. Was planning to give four popcorn but after that stupid end I was contemplating between three and three-and-half but I feel generous today.







Split (1989) is an arthouse indie film made by filmmakers who don't belong anywhere in an "arthouse". Cheaply made the movie is the equivalent of a crazy person standing in the middle of the street babbling about the government trying to steal his raisins. Actually that's not fair that would be more cohesive than what I just watched.


I'm sure the filmmakers love Ed Wood and John Waters but those films had a certain charm this was bereft of humor or style or any level of substance. I'm not entirely sure the script just wasn't a collection of the worst of Youtube comment sections.


I don't think this film even registers the standards of Red Letter Media






Hmm, arthouse?
Never struck me as an arthouse. Definitely innovative staging and arty elements but more a comedy.

To me split is about an object serving as a catalyst to wake people up from programming, etc.

This ones easy to rag on if youre not vested in it, thats for sure.

Also, robocop and the matrix used production stills from this film to model their "innovations".
Lots of info out there about this film if interested.



Split (Chris Shaw; 1989)




This was a weird one but overall I wasn't a fan. I felt that the plot was quite incoherent and disjointed for me to enjoy, and that most of the acting was pretty mediocre. I did however think that the film had some good visuals, especially considering the small budget of the film. While the film was able to keep my interest for the majority of its running, I felt that things got way too convoluted and over the top towards the end, at which point the film lost me. Overall I would say that this is an interesting nomination, but not the type of film I would find any value in.
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Have you ever gave a film a 0 before?

Hmm, arthouse?
Never struck me as an arthouse. Definitely innovative staging and arty elements but more a comedy.
It's not arthouse, it's like what's called gorilla theater or like experimental movie making. Joel do you own this on laser disc?



Split (Chris Shaw; 1989)




This was a weird one but overall I wasn't a fan. I felt that the plot was quite incoherent and disjointed for me to enjoy, and that most of the acting was pretty mediocre. I did however think that the film had some good visuals, especially considering the small budget of the film. While the film was able to keep my interest for the majority of its running, I felt that things got way too convoluted and over the top towards the end, at which point the film lost me. Overall I would say that this is an interesting nomination, but not the type of film I would find any value in.
I'm just happy ppl are watching it. It deserves an audience, I think. When this came out, and a decade or so after, it was much fresher and probably able to be appreciated a bit more. I can't be certain about that last part. I'm kind of weird so, we'll leave it at that.




It's not arthouse, it's like what's called gorilla theater or like experimental movie making. Joel do you own this on laser disc?
I loved your review of it! I own this on blu ray and dvd. Should I try and rip it onto youtube? There is no LD release of this sadly.

The blu ray looks AMAZING. It's shot in 4:3 so it was meant for home video even tho it had a brief theater run.

BTW you comparing me to this movie..that's interesting, I've never considered that. I suppose this film influenced me a lot. I mean, did you catch that scene transition from them driving with the cat in the carry on box in the back seat, to him carrying it, seamlessly, to her apt parking lot?

Woah!



Abandon Ship (Richard Sale; 1957)





An interesting an thought provoking survival drama. Tyrone Power shines here in the lead role and the supporting cast is quite solid too. The film does quite well at portraying a moral dilemma and it meant the the film was able to keep me interested until the end. Overall, I did quite like this and thought that it was both gripping as well as good at making the viewer question the main character's ethics. Solid nomination.
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I was kinda afraid that this isn't going to be for me. I rarely like horror comedies so the odds were stacked from the start.

Bubba Ho-Tep (2002) N

Elvis Presley and JFK (dyed black after the failed assassination attempt) fight against an evil mummy in a retirement home in Texas.


Like so often with these cult classic horror comedies I don't find Bubba Ho-Tep particularly funny. Two main characters are somewhat interesting but even with them the concepts are better than the execution. That black JFK was by far the funniest thing in the movie.

In addition to not being particularly funny the biggest single flaw in the film is its failure to utilize the tools of the media. It feels like almost half of the dialogue is (boring) narration by Elvis which to me screams inability to tell the story through cinematic means. I don't like heavy narration on my films and Bubba Ho-Tep must be one of the worst offenders I've seen.

All the films attempts to have some deeper meanings about getting old and having regrets feel forced (I blame the narration again, it's not emotionally engaging to be told these things by the narrator without much connetion to rest of the film). Its best joke is the concept (Elvis and black JFK in a retirement home) but it's not enough to carry a whole feature film.

Another proof that horror comedies in general aren't my thing, especially the ones with cult status.