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I just finished watching La Haine, but I'm not sure if I'll get anything written about it tonight since it's starting to get late for me. It's not something I likely would've watched on my own, so I'm glad that Nope chose it as his nomination.



Suddenly in the last month when I use an underhanded site to stream, some of the movies sort of skip in reverse. They'll jump back a second and do it several times through the movie. It was only an annoyance before, but I found when I tried to watch Phoenix, the subtitles got thrown out of wack. This never happened to me in the past. Anyway, Phoenix is on the way from Netflix for me to watch this coming weekend.



Phoenix (2014)

Christian Petzold, does an excellent job of building suspense and the ending is an unexpected pleasure. Beautifully constructed and melancholy piece of cinema but its implausibility means that it can only be admired from a distance.
The problem is that there are a few instances in the story where it is near impossible that it could play out the way he presents it.
Phoenix is undone by a premise that asks the audience to swallow a bit more than they may be prepared to. Nothing more than a fairly compelling thriller
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A normal man? For me, a normal man is one who turns his head to see a beautiful woman's bottom. The point is not just to turn your head. There are five or six reasons. And he is glad to find people who are like him, his equals. That's why he likes crowded beaches, football, the bar downtown...



Warning: Spoilers for Phoenix below!

The problem is that there are a few instances in the story where it is near impossible that it could play out the way he presents it.
Phoenix is undone by a premise that asks the audience to swallow a bit more than they may be prepared to.
What was it about the premise that you didn't think was believable? Was it that plastic surgery was nowhere near that advanced at the time depicted in the film, or that her husband wouldn't have recognized her at the club?

While I'd agree with the first point, the second one is intentional, and meant to promote one of the film's themes. It's not as simple as a man not recognizing his wife without her make-up. The Nelly that returned from the concentration camps was a completely different woman than the one who entered. Her experiences there altered her so much that she was no longer in touch with the person she was before. She has to rediscover herself throughout the film, and it's not until she comes to terms with everything that's happened that she becomes recognizable.

Another thematic element is that her husband doesn't actually want to accept that it really is her. He is in complete denial. He doesn't want to face the consequences of his actions, so he chooses not to recognize Nelly until the evidence presented is too great for him to simply ignore.



Warning: Spoilers for Phoenix below!


What was it about the premise that you didn't think was believable? Was it that plastic surgery was nowhere near that advanced at the time depicted in the film, or that her husband wouldn't have recognized her at the club?

While I'd agree with the first point, the second one is intentional, and meant to promote one of the film's themes. It's not as simple as a man not recognizing his wife without her make-up. The Nelly that returned from the concentration camps was a completely different woman than the one who entered. Her experiences there altered her so much that she was no longer in touch with the person she was before. She has to rediscover herself throughout the film, and it's not until she comes to terms with everything that's happened that she becomes recognizable.

Another thematic element is that her husband doesn't actually want to accept that it really is her. He is in complete denial. He doesn't want to face the consequences of his actions, so he chooses not to recognize Nelly until the evidence presented is too great for him to simply ignore.
In 'Phoenix' theory, it sounds better than it does in practice. The issue of loss of identity has not been explored until the end, as the process of constructing a new identity is not shown in detail. Therefore, the relationship between them remains somewhat superficial (he fails to recognize her, or, perhaps, he only pretends not to recognize her) either way, this is where Phoenix starts to ask too much of its audience, and the betrayal as a key moment hangs in the air from the beginning, only to eventually come to the payment.





La Haine (1995)
Directed By: Mathieu Kassovitz
Starring: Saïd Taghmaoui, Vincent Cassel, Hubert Koundé

La Haine is a gritty film about a generation of people who were trapped in lives of poverty and abuse. The black and white cinematography lends itself well to the dreary outlook of the film, and it feels almost like a documentary at times. It features real footage of actual riots that took place in France during the late 80s and early 90s, and similar riots were still occurring while the film was being made. It's not all grim however, as there is some humour layered in among the violence, frustration, and discrimination.

The film follows its three main characters over the course of an entire day – almost 24 hours. The trio grapple with boredom as they don't really have much to do inside their cold environment, littered with trash and used needles. Whether they're causing mischief or just standing around, they frequently draw the attention of the police, whose presence often reignites a conflict that is always on the verge of escalating into another riot. The atmosphere in these scenes is incredibly tense, and rife with uncertainty over how the confrontations will ultimately play out.

Sound is used very effectively throughout the film, with a great mix of both diegetic and non-diegetic music. I also liked many of the stories told to or by the main characters in the film. Not all of them had a real purpose, while others were clearly meant to be significant. I also appreciated that the film doesn't provide a real resolution, because the issues its addresses are still real problems is many parts of the world, and the final scene's impact might've been softened otherwise. It's a powerful film that is sadly still as relevant today as it was when it was made.

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they frequently draw the attention of the police, whose presence often reignites a conflict that is always on the verge of escalating into another riot. The atmosphere in these scenes is incredibly tense, and rife with uncertainty over how the confrontations will ultimately play out.
I felt the clock added to the tension aswell. Whenever it appears you subconsciously think something bad's gonna happen when it reaches a main time (Eg. 12:00, 18:00). It's my favourite element of the film actually. It's pretty eerie.



Thursday Next's Avatar
I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Warning: Spoilers for Phoenix below!

While I'd agree with the first point, the second one is intentional, and meant to promote one of the film's themes.
I think it's much more concerned with its themes than it is with plausibility - this isn't necessarily a negative, I think it depends on the viewer and how much they accept that.



Thursday Next's Avatar
I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Phoenix



This film is concerned with identity, guilt and survival. Nelly returns as if from the dead, unsure how much she can trust her old family, friends and neighbours. She looks different, changed but uncannily similar. The whole idea of identity and performance, as she pretends to be herself, is addressed in an interesting way. What should she do? Try to pretend nothing has happened or seek revenge? How will everyone else react - guilt, denial, pretence?

It looks good, the cinematography is impressive. Lead actress Nina Hoss is pretty good and lends emotional depth to the movie. Her relationship with her friend Lene is as important as the one with her husband.

Everything from the title on has an air of allegory about it; this and the deliberately contrived Hitchcockian situation make it interesting thematically with some clever points to make, but stop it from ever being completely convincing just as a story. There are also some things which seem to be concealed only so they can be revealed at dramatic moments. It does make for a fairly memorable ending though. How much you enjoy this film will probably depend on how much that matters to you or how far you can suspend your disbelief. I enjoyed it quite a bit but it bothered me more in retrospect, thinking ‘why did she…?’ or ‘why didn’t she just…?’.

I’d quite like to see ‘Barbara’ from the same director and actress.



I’d quite like to see ‘Barbara’ from the same director and actress.
If you like the style and tone of Phoenix, then I'd definitely recommend Barbara. The plot is more straight forward and doesn't rely heavily on symbolism. It's also much slower, and eerily quiet. Instead of focusing on coming to terms with the past like Phoenix does, the film is more concerned about oppression, and the distrust prevalent in Germany at the time.



movies can be okay...
I watched Phoenix earlier, and I totally agree with most of what you guys said. The film does indeed require a bit of suspension of disbelief from the viewer, but that ending does more than make up for it. Talk about hard-hitting!
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La Haine (1995)
Directed By: Mathieu Kassovitz
Starring: Saïd Taghmaoui, Vincent Cassel, Hubert Koundé
My hugest problem with this movie & it spoiled it for me was the translation from the French. Everything was translated to show that they spoke in the same vernacular as American guys would do. Which made absolutely no sense. Jodie Foster was so impressed with this movie & in her interview she made no mention of this & was obviously satisfied with the translation as it was. (She was responsible for bringing the movie to America.)
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Women will be your undoing, Pépé
actually picked up Phoenix along with Sword of Doom this week and enjoyed the reviews of Phoenix and will the more detailed conversation about it AFTER I see it.




The Umbrellas of Cherbourg (1964)

That photo breaks my heart, so many scenes did...and if you've watched this and don't know what I mean, then there's nothing else I can say about this wonderful film that will reach you.

Jacques Demy effortlessly combines the classic French cinema '
Cinéma de Qualité' with French New wave realism to create one unique film, with all the dialogue being sung. But that's mainly of interest to film scholars.

What counts to me is that this is one of the most heartfelt, emotionally honest films dealing with young love that I've ever seen. And let me tell ya folks, CR was once young and while I wasn't shipped off to war in Algiers, a lot of this story rang true for me. Been there. When you're young and in love for the first time, it's like us against the world and nothing in the universe can stop that love, say for one thing...time.
..And I've always had one saying, 'time kills all deals'.

Catherine Deneuve-Geneviève is just so special here, that you either get her emotional fragility and exuberance over her love, or you don't. And yet the story is crafted so wonderfully sincere that it's easy to see how her one true love, Guy (Nino Castelnuovo), can in the end shift gears and still find happiness. And he ended up where he needed to be, and I guess Geneviève lands where time took her. Oh and the gas station scene, powerful stuff! So metered and so real. Been there too.
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A 14-year-old video enthusiast is so caught up in film fantasy that he can no longer relate to the real world, to such an extent that he commits murder and records an on-camera confession for his parents.
IMO