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Originally Posted by Wyldesyde19

Maybe not by American standards ,but I�m measuring it by Hong Kong standards which, let�s face it, was throw everything together and hope it makes some money. Maybe throw in some actions just because. Who cares if it makes sense, right?

You're measuring Hong Kong movies by Hong Kong standards so you're using the same thing to measure something? You can't measure entertainment by the factors of arthouse cinema. And if you measure HK cinema o the 80s and 90s by the standards of today's HK cinema, then today's cinema is simply unwatchable.

Originally Posted by Wyldesyde19

But this isn�t about the US. Bringing them up as some sort of argument for comparisons sake doesn�t hold up.

It does hold up. I'm just comparing films of the same type from the same era just from different countries.

Originally Posted by Wyldesyde19

Arguing against serving the story is a shallow response. The story is important, after all. Even Hong Kong films even had them. Even if they were sometimes simple.

Bemoaningly, they had the story. Some of them would be better off without one. But the screenwriting was so much different from American storytelling. Where American entertainment cinema fails is their idea that even 100% entertaining silly or fantasy movies need a coherent, 'well'-written story that checks all the boxes of 'proper' film writing you'd use in any other 'serious' movie. They cannot quite escape this.

Originally Posted by Wyldesyde19

And if blue light to make it artsier is the highlight, it�s not much of one.

You don't get it. It's not to make it artsier. It's to make the atmosphere better. But you probably watch these films on Bluray where them morons who restored the movies deleted the blue light.

Originally Posted by Wyldesyde19

Also, I don�t like Jackie Chan films very much. There I said it.
Except Police Story.
But that�s it!

Yeah, me too. Jackie Chan's films are overrated, indeed, but I like Police Story. City Hunter is the best film with Chan, also the least favorite of Chan's films he starred in, which says a lot.

Originally Posted by Wyldesyde19

I also like A Chinese Ghost Story
Tsui Hark isn�t that good.
I Need to watch more Johnnie To.

A Chinese Ghost Story is classic. Tsui Hark is very good (better than Spielberg when it comes to Spielbergian cinema of the middle kinda stuff) but his movies aren't always great. Anything he made post-handover is bad, in particular. Still, he directed and produced some amazing masterpieces.

Johnnie To is a GOAT. One of the few directors who not only survived the handover quality-wise but arguably upped their quality after the handover, which is insane!!!

[quote=Mr Minio][quote=Wyldesyde19]Maybe not by American standards ,but I�m measuring it by Hong Kong standards which, let�s face it, was throw everything together and hope it makes some money. Maybe throw in some actions just because. Who cares if it makes sense, right?[/quote] You're measuring Hong Kong movies by Hong Kong standards so you're using the same thing to measure something? You can't measure entertainment by the factors of arthouse cinema. And if you measure HK cinema o the 80s and 90s by the standards of today's HK cinema, then today's cinema is simply unwatchable.

[quote=Wyldesyde19]But this isn�t about the US. Bringing them up as some sort of argument for comparisons sake doesn�t hold up.[/quote] It does hold up. I'm just comparing films of the same type from the same era just from different countries.

[quote=Wyldesyde19]Arguing against serving the story is a shallow response. The story is important, after all. Even Hong Kong films even had them. Even if they were sometimes simple.[/quote] Bemoaningly, they had the story. Some of them would be better off without one. But the screenwriting was so much different from American storytelling. Where American entertainment cinema fails is their idea that even 100% entertaining silly or fantasy movies need a coherent, 'well'-written story that checks all the boxes of 'proper' film writing you'd use in any other 'serious' movie. They cannot quite escape this.

[quote=Wyldesyde19]
And if blue light to make it artsier is the highlight, it�s not much of one.[/quote] You don't get it. It's not to make it artsier. It's to make the atmosphere better. But you probably watch these films on Bluray where them morons who restored the movies deleted the blue light.

[quote=Wyldesyde19]
Also, I don�t like Jackie Chan films very much. There I said it.
Except Police Story.
But that�s it![/quote] Yeah, me too. Jackie Chan's films are overrated, indeed, but I like Police Story. City Hunter is the best film with Chan, also the least favorite of Chan's films he starred in, which says a lot.

[quote=Wyldesyde19]
I also like A Chinese Ghost Story
Tsui Hark isn�t that good.
I Need to watch more Johnnie To.[/quote]

A Chinese Ghost Story is classic. Tsui Hark is very good (better than Spielberg when it comes to Spielbergian cinema of the middle kinda stuff) but his movies aren't always great. Anything he made post-handover is bad, in particular. Still, he directed and produced some amazing masterpieces.

Johnnie To is a GOAT. One of the few directors who not only survived the handover quality-wise but arguably upped their quality after the handover, which is insane!!![/quote]

FilmBuff 08-14-24

Originally Posted by Mr Minio

Americans can't have fun.

Lol, have you ever been here?

[quote=FilmBuff][quote=Mr Minio]Americans can't have fun.[/quote]

Lol, have you ever been here?[/quote]

John-Connor 08-14-24

Goodmorning!

The 80s rock, ignore what 12 year olds think about it...

[quote=John-Connor][FONT="Century Gothic"]Goodmorning! :o The 80s rock, ignore what 12 year olds think about it...:D[/FONT]
[IMG]https://64.media.tumblr.com/061873c056280bcdda20f289d483ec74/tumblr_plhr5zX5t51v6w3juo4_500.gif[/IMG][/quote]

Wyldesyde19 08-14-24

Also, Lam Nai Choi made two films that I clearly think are amazing: Riki- oh and The Cat.
The alien fungus like creature in The Cat was very creative.
Still need to see The Seventh Curse

[quote=Wyldesyde19]Also, Lam Nai Choi made two films that I clearly think are amazing: Riki- oh and The Cat.  
The alien fungus like creature in The Cat was very creative.  
Still need to see The Seventh Curse[/quote]

Wyldesyde19 08-14-24

In general, for me.
Maybe not by American standards ,but I�m measuring it by Hong Kong standards which, let�s face it, was throw everything together and hope it makes some money. Maybe throw in some actions just because. Who cares if it makes sense, right?
Their attempts at making money at the Box Office resulted in films that would make the US blush. And the US had sown truly bad films during that same period.
But this isn�t about the US. Bringing them up as some sort of argument for comparisons sake doesn�t hold up. US films were more coherent. (Sometimes)
Arguing against serving the story is a shallow response. The story is important, after all. Even Hong Kong films even had them. Even if they were sometimes simple. That�s fine, it isn�t a dig. it wasn�t like the US (or Japan, or Italy, or France etc) didn�t always make that deep of a film.
And if blue light to make it artsier is the highlight, it�s not much of one.
Also, I don�t like Jackie Chan films very much. There I said it.
Except Police Story.
But that�s it!
I also like A Chinese Ghost Story
Tsui Hark isn�t that good.
I Need to watch more Johnnie To.

[quote=Wyldesyde19]In general, for me.  
Maybe not by American standards ,but I�m measuring it by Hong Kong  standards which, let�s face it, was throw everything together and hope it makes some money.  Maybe throw in some actions just because.  Who cares if it makes sense, right?  
Their attempts at making money at the Box Office resulted in films that would make the US blush.  And the US had sown truly bad films during that same period.  
But this isn�t about the US. Bringing them up as some sort of argument for comparisons sake doesn�t hold up.  US films were more coherent.  (Sometimes)
Arguing against serving the story is a shallow response.  The story is important, after all. Even Hong Kong films even had them.  Even if they were sometimes simple.  That�s fine, it isn�t a dig. it wasn�t like the US (or Japan, or Italy, or France etc) didn�t always make that deep of a film. 
And if blue light to make it artsier is the highlight, it�s not much of one.  
Also, I don�t like Jackie Chan films very much. There I said it.  
Except Police Story.  
But that�s it!
I also like A Chinese Ghost Story
Tsui Hark isn�t that good.  
I Need to watch more Johnnie To.[/quote]

Mr Minio 08-14-24

Lookee here. So it IS possible to make a modern rape'n'revenge film that looks half-decent.

[quote=Mr Minio]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyEujHcu-8o

Lookee here. So it IS possible to make a modern rape'n'revenge film that looks half-decent.[/quote]

Mr Minio 08-14-24

Can't wait to write a film review where I say "I feel like the rape jokes were a little bit forced."

[quote=Mr Minio]Can't wait to write a film review where I say "I feel like the rape jokes were a little bit forced."[/quote]

Mr Minio 08-14-24

Americans can't have fun. But they do know how to write a good script.

[quote=Mr Minio]Americans can't have fun. But they do know how to write a good script.[/quote]

Mr Minio 08-14-24

Originally Posted by Wyldesyde19

The more I dig further into Hong Kong cinema during the 80�s and 90�s, the more I feel it�s mostly over ratted. Particularly their hybrid action films (usually horror/comedy/action/combination that seems too much of a mishmash of genre to be coherent at times).

Overrated by whom? Me? Maybe. In general? Doubt it. They have a better atmosphere and lack the annoying things their American counterparts have. Also, the real or perceived lack of coherence is a good thing. They don't suck up to boring screenwriting norms of the American mainstream plus the mishmash of genres is a great thing, too. A silly comedy in the first few scenes, a rape horror/thriller in the next, and a melodrama about a girl who got raped that then turns into a weird vigilante girls-with-guns, all of that basked in trademark blue light with over-the-top performances. This shit could never be made in America because SeRvE tHe StoRy plus It'S PrObLeMaTiC.

Originally Posted by Wyldesyde19

There are some good directors out of that particular period, for sure. Wong Kar Wai, Stanley Kwan, Ann Hui, Fruit Chan for example. For the most part, yeah…not so great.

These are 'serious' directors, and yeah, all good ones. I'm talking about the entertainment side of HK cinema.

Originally Posted by Iroquois

the hell you say. seeing stuff like the boxer's omen and the seventh curse for the first time in the last few years does nothing to undermine what face-melters they are, especially in comparison to a lot of what passes for "new" great films.

Yep, two great films - better than any entertaining film made in the US at the time.

Originally Posted by Wyldesyde19

Naming two films isn�t exactly a ringing endorsement of Hong Kong films during that period.

There are so many other great films, though. Plus the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. HK cinema of the 80s & 90s is the capitalist dream come true. They left them 'muricans way behind! Just watch these films on DVD/VHS/Laserdisc because the Bluray restorations are terrible for the most part.

Originally Posted by Wyldesyde19

Comparison to new films isn�t exactly an argument in and of itself either, I�d add.

I'm comparing them to entertainment from the US from the same time and there's no comparison.

[quote=Mr Minio][quote=Wyldesyde19]The more I dig further into Hong Kong cinema during the 80�s and 90�s, the more I feel it�s mostly over ratted. Particularly their hybrid action films (usually horror/comedy/action/combination that seems too much of a mishmash of genre to be coherent at times).[/quote] Overrated by whom? Me? Maybe. In general? Doubt it. They have a better atmosphere and lack the annoying things their American counterparts have. Also, the real or perceived lack of coherence is a good thing. They don't suck up to boring screenwriting norms of the American mainstream plus the mishmash of genres is a great thing, too. A silly comedy in the first few scenes, a rape horror/thriller in the next, and a melodrama about a girl who got raped that then turns into a weird vigilante girls-with-guns, all of that basked in trademark blue light with over-the-top performances. This shit could never be made in America because SeRvE tHe StoRy plus It'S PrObLeMaTiC.

[quote=Wyldesyde19]There are some good directors out of that particular period, for sure. Wong Kar Wai, Stanley Kwan, Ann Hui, Fruit Chan for example. For the most part, yeah…not so great.[/quote]  These are 'serious' directors, and yeah, all good ones. I'm talking about the entertainment side of HK cinema.

[quote=Iroquois]the hell you say. seeing stuff like [i]the boxer's omen[/i] and [i]the seventh curse[/i] for the first time in the last few years does nothing to undermine what face-melters they are, especially in comparison to a lot of what passes for "new" great films.[/quote] Yep, two great films - better than any entertaining film made in the US at the time.

[quote=Wyldesyde19]Naming two films isn�t exactly a ringing endorsement of Hong Kong films during that period.[/quote] There are so many other great films, though. Plus the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. HK cinema of the 80s & 90s is the capitalist dream come true. They left them 'muricans way behind! Just watch these films on DVD/VHS/Laserdisc because the Bluray restorations are terrible for the most part.

[quote=Wyldesyde19]Comparison to new films isn�t exactly an argument in and of itself either, I�d add.[/quote] I'm comparing them to entertainment from the US from the same time and there's no comparison.[/quote]

Wyldesyde19 08-14-24

Originally Posted by Iroquois

Originally Posted by FilmBuff

That's because they ARE overrated, but in all fairness they seemed a lot better when they were brand new!

the hell you say. seeing stuff like the boxer's omen and the seventh curse for the first time in the last few years does nothing to undermine what face-melters they are, especially in comparison to a lot of what passes for "new" great films.

Naming two films isn�t exactly a ringing endorsement of Hong Kong films during that period. I already conceded that there were some great directors out of that period and I�d certainly add Lam Ngai Choi since you mentioned The Seventh Curse, but for the most part it wasn�t as great of a run as most mention, for me I should add.
Comparison to new films isn�t exactly an argument in and of itself either, I�d add.

[quote=Wyldesyde19][quote=Iroquois][quote=FilmBuff]That's because they ARE overrated, but in all fairness they seemed a lot better when they were brand new![/quote]

the hell you say. seeing stuff like [i]the boxer's omen[/i] and [i]the seventh curse[/i] for the first time in the last few years does nothing to undermine what face-melters they are, especially in comparison to a lot of what passes for "new" great films.[/quote]
Naming two films isn�t exactly a ringing endorsement of Hong Kong films during that period. I already conceded that there were some great directors out of  that period and I�d certainly add Lam Ngai Choi since you mentioned The Seventh Curse, but for the most part it wasn�t as great of a run as most mention, for me I should add.  
Comparison to new films isn�t exactly an argument in and of itself either, I�d add.[/quote]

Iroquois 08-14-24

Originally Posted by FilmBuff

That's because they ARE overrated, but in all fairness they seemed a lot better when they were brand new!

the hell you say. seeing stuff like the boxer's omen and the seventh curse for the first time in the last few years does nothing to undermine what face-melters they are, especially in comparison to a lot of what passes for "new" great films.

[quote=Iroquois][quote=FilmBuff]That's because they ARE overrated, but in all fairness they seemed a lot better when they were brand new![/quote]

the hell you say. seeing stuff like [i]the boxer's omen[/i] and [i]the seventh curse[/i] for the first time in the last few years does nothing to undermine what face-melters they are, especially in comparison to a lot of what passes for "new" great films.[/quote]

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