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Balor 08-01-23 01:31 PM

Understanding New Wave Films
 
So I see from searching around that there are threads discussing the best French and American New Wave films, but nothing general---hopefully this isn't redundant at this point.

I don't have much background with this movement aside from the 1960s films by Oshima, so I would like to learn more.

Since there are already threads listing the mandatory films, I was wondering if anyone had articles, books, videos, and even personal knowledge/experience that can help me get more out of my viewings in the future?

Mr Minio 08-01-23 02:43 PM

Re: Understanding New Wave Films
 
The New Waves are artificial groupings of disparate filmmakers who often had little in common apart from a fresh approach to film that challenged old cinema.

Yoshida, Oshima, Wakamatsu, Imamura, and Nakahira are all wildly different auteurs and yet they're all Japanese New Wave.

Godard, Truffaut, Rohmer, and Rivette all made very different movies but were scooped into the French New Wave group because they were all Cahiers guys who started making movies.

So now that it's clear the New Waves are not monolithic but a contrived thing, the question isn't really how to understand the New Waves, but rather, how to understand each of the New Waves' individual auteurs.

And the answer is simple: By watching more of their films.

You can read up more on the individual auteurs if you want, but I'd recommend against it. I think it's best to approach their art in a pure, unadulterated way, meaning you just deep dive head-first into their filmographies without giving a damn about understanding anything.

Because film is about feeling, not understanding. And if the feeling was really strong, maybe you'll want to rewatch the film in a few years and read up more on it if you still don't get it. But if you don't care about these movies, to begin with, no amount of reading is really going to change your mind. You'll understand them, but never *get* them.

Sedai 08-01-23 02:56 PM

Re: Understanding New Wave Films
 
New Wave? ;)

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-...5&dpr=1&s=none

Balor 08-01-23 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Minio (Post 2402807)
The New Waves are artificial groupings of disparate filmmakers who often had little in common apart from a fresh approach to film that challenged old cinema.

Yoshida, Oshima, Wakamatsu, Imamura, and Nakahira are all wildly different auteurs and yet they're all Japanese New Wave.

Godard, Truffaut, Rohmer, and Rivette all made very different movies but were scooped into the French New Wave group because they were all Cahiers guys who started making movies.

So now that it's clear the New Waves are not monolithic but a contrived thing, the question isn't really how to understand the New Waves, but rather, how to understand each of the New Waves' individual auteurs.

And the answer is simple: By watching more of their films.

You can read up more on the individual auteurs if you want, but I'd recommend against it. I think it's best to approach their art in a pure, unadulterated way, meaning you just deep dive head-first into their filmographies without giving a damn about understanding anything.

Because film is about feeling, not understanding. And if the feeling was really strong, maybe you'll want to rewatch the film in a few years and read up more on it if you still don't get it. But if you don't care about these movies, to begin with, no amount of reading is really going to change your mind. You'll understand them, but never *get* them.
Thank you, this actually helps quite a bit. After watching Oshima's more technically experimental works, I was sometimes left feeling that there must be a "key" to them (or at least certain scenes) that I was missing, or that otherwise I just needed a better understanding of the historical/artistic context in which they were made.

This summer is unfortunately gone for me, in terms of time for film watching projects (my current one will carry me through), but I am thinking that next year will be the deep-dive summer of Godard and others.

Balor 08-01-23 05:13 PM

Re: Understanding New Wave Films
 
(That probably won't stop me from reading up beforehand though. haha---Old habits die hard...)

Mr Minio 08-02-23 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by Balor (Post 2402857)
(That probably won't stop me from reading up beforehand though. haha---Old habits die hard...)
Most New Wavers (or at least those in France and Japan) were Leftists. So, it'd be good if you read about the events and history of the Left in France and Japan.

For example, Godard often harks back to May 1968. He also had a Maoist phase, so it'd be cool to read about that, too, if you haven't already. That is, about Maoism both in China and Europe.

The United States–Japan Security Treaty protests in Japan were huge and often mentioned in early Japanese New Wave films. The topic of anti-Korean sentiment is there, too, in at least two Oshimas. Then you have the underground far-Left that's mentioned in Wakamatsu movies, among others.

So, you don't really have to read about specific films, but about history, too. And if you know your history, you'll understand more.

Tyler1 08-02-23 11:59 AM

Re: Understanding New Wave Films
 
You may wish to read up on the two volumes of Deleuze's cinema books. What we now refer to as New Wave cinema, as Mr Minio has rightfully pointed out was not a movement with a singular manifesto which all directors openly endorsed or were even aware of (in most cases New Wave as a movement only made sense AFTER its effect was felt on the cinematic landscape). Though this group of directors did not necessarily corroborate or share similar ideas and political views, the films they made did reflect certain common characteristics which were noticeably different from pre-world war 2 films in their stylistic form and content. Very briefly, Deleuze detected that in post-war cinema there was an emergence of time-images over movement-images which were predominant before the war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbYYrRDKm5I

Balor 08-02-23 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Minio (Post 2402975)
Most New Wavers (or at least those in France and Japan) were Leftists. So, it'd be good if you read about the events and history of the Left in France and Japan.

For example, Godard often harks back to May 1968. He also had a Maoist phase, so it'd be cool to read about that, too, if you haven't already. That is, about Maoism both in China and Europe.

The United States–Japan Security Treaty protests in Japan were huge and often mentioned in early Japanese New Wave films. The topic of anti-Korean sentiment is there, too, in at least two Oshimas. Then you have the underground far-Left that's mentioned in Wakamatsu movies, among others.

So, you don't really have to read about specific films, but about history, too. And if you know your history, you'll understand more.
This is a great idea. I read a book on the history of the May '68 protests in Franch for a seminar last year, and I have a copy of Baudrillard's memoir of the time sitting on my shelf. I read most of the "little red book" some years ago, but I can always refer back to that easily. The US-Japan treaty I have gotten a little bit filtered through Mishima (what a lens that is haha), so more time spent there would also be a smart idea.

Balor 08-02-23 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Tyler1 (Post 2403012)
You may wish to read up on the two volumes of Deleuze's cinema books. What we now refer to as New Wave cinema, as Mr Minio has rightfully pointed out was not a movement with a singular manifesto which all directors openly endorsed or were even aware of (in most cases New Wave as a movement only made sense AFTER its effect was felt on the cinematic landscape). Though this group of directors did not necessarily corroborate or share similar ideas and political views, the films they made did reflect certain common characteristics which were noticeably different from pre-world war 2 films in their stylistic form and content. Very briefly, Deleuze detected that in post-war cinema there was an emergence of time-images over movement-images which were predominant before the war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbYYrRDKm5I
Deleuze's books on film have been on my to-read list for some years now. I will pick up copies!

reinajk30 08-03-23 03:31 AM

Re: Understanding New Wave Films
 
hey Balor, i watched three- four new wave french films, my favorite is "The 400 Blows" ("Les quatre cents coups") directed by François Truffaut. interestingly, it appears to be one of the earliest films of the new wave French cinema movement. probably you can start from this point

Little Ash 08-03-23 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Minio (Post 2402975)
Most New Wavers (or at least those in France and Japan) were Leftists.

I'm now trying to remember what the politics of the films of the Czech New Wave directors I've generally were in comparison. I mainly just remember the, "big brother sucks," theme, which also a byproduct of the temporary era of more political freedom they had in the moment.

Mr Minio 08-03-23 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Little Ash (Post 2403201)
I'm now trying to remember what the politics of the films of the Czech New Wave directors I've generally were in comparison. I mainly just remember the, "big brother sucks," theme, which also a byproduct of the temporary era of more political freedom they had in the moment.
Yeah, a critique of the authoritarian and bureaucratic aspects of the communist regime, especially its repression of artistic and intellectual freedom, human rights, and democracy was a ubiquitous if often an overtly covert theme in Czech New Wave films. For example, Milos Forman criticized the absurdity and hypocrisy of the communist regime using satire.

Most filmmakers at the time supported the reformist movement led by Alexander Dubcek, who tried to create “socialism with a human face” in 1968, by introducing more liberalization and decentralization in the political and economic system.

A rejection of both the Soviet domination and the Western capitalist influence, and a search for a third way that would preserve the national identity and culture of Czechoslovakia was an ongoing idea, too.

But then in August 1968 the USSR and the Warsaw Pact countries invaded Prague and all the dreams were shattered. Forman, Passer, and Nemec left Czechoslovakia. Those who stayed had been banned from making movies for some time.

Many Czech New Wave directors were Leftists. For example, Vera Chytliova was a feminist. It's just that none of them liked the one-party dictatorship and ideological orthodoxy of the time, which stifled artistic freedom.

Balor 08-04-23 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by reinajk30 (Post 2403183)
hey Balor, i watched three- four new wave french films, my favorite is "The 400 Blows" ("Les quatre cents coups") directed by François Truffaut. interestingly, it appears to be one of the earliest films of the new wave French cinema movement. probably you can start from this point
I had it rented from my local library, but ended up not watching it---which was a mistake! I really liked the documentary on Truffaut's interviews with Hitchcock (still kicking myself for not picking up the $5 book version at my local library's bookstore), so I think your suggestion is a good one.


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