How About A God Movie That Makes Sense?
Can our subconscious, our spirit, interact with a spiritual reality through meditation? Please consider my experiences.
IMHO, I have personally experienced my spirit leaving my body and being united with the "ultimate supreme spirit" (God?). In 1956, when I was fifteen years old, I had pneumonia and thought I was dying. My father took me to a doctor who gave me a penicillin injection and recommended immediate hospitalization. We had no medical insurance or money, so my father took me home to recuperate. I remember the drive home vividly. Every breath was painful and my chest felt as though a great weight was upon it. I watched cars and trucks drive by, and wondered how people could make long term plans when life was so unpredictable. Several nights later, it felt as if my spirit left my body and it experienced being in a place with a gathering of souls or spirits. I sensed great peace, tranquility and ecstasy -- a rapture that was beyond a person's imagination. I felt as if I was a part of ALL, a part of God. I was mentally communicating and in sync with everyone, including not only some of my deceased acquaintances and relatives, but many of the prophets of the bible, and historical people I had read about. There was no dominant force, no forceful leader. I somehow knew who everyone was. Every thought interacted with the whole community. I had no questions; it seemed as if everything was revealed and crystal clear. I saw the universe stretched out with spirits engaged in mental interaction like master craftsmen contemplating the creation of a new frontier. When I told my father who was a preacher of the Lutheran Faith about my experience he dismissed it abruptly and told me that this "supreme spirit," this God that my spirit had witnessed, was not the God of the bible and he told me to pray for my salvation. We never talked about it afterwards. Since that time I never really gave it much thought until the New York World Trade Center tragedy on 9-11-01. I went into deep meditation. I wanted to find an answer to why and how some misguided individuals could believe that their actions would be rewarded with their soul's eternal life with God. I then had a couple of experiences similar to the one I had at age fifteen of my spirit communicating with the "ultimate spirit." (God, Allah or whatever one desires to call him/her/it) One spiritual experience seemed to last throughout the entire night. My spirit observed the entire history and the evolution of the universe and our varying perceptions of God, as if in a fast-forward film. The experiences I encountered after the 9-11 tragedy helped me come to this conclusion: 1. ALL religions have the same goals and all who live by the basic principles of peace will attain their goal. The problems arise when religious fanaticism arises. A fanatic passion to please God has been demonstrated throughout the Ages. We have seen vast destruction and useless killings by religious zealots that have followed us into the present century whereby even technology is unable to quell its tide. 2. In this 21st Century, the Age of Technology, we are still plagued by religious beliefs that are a contributing cause toward terrorism, killings and wars between nations. Belief in a deity, who keeps causing catastrophes, punishes people, and created the universe out of nothingness as if by magic was brought about by hysteria and superstitions. This thought process needs to be reassessed and brought up to date. Open-minded people must use common sense to determine whether this so-called deity was incorrectly perceived, misinterpreted and misunderstood by the masses of a bygone era. 3. God is a spiritual unity, a oneness, a structured government-like "Spiritual Collective"; the "Progressive and Accumulative Spiritual Intelligence" of the universe existing in a spiritual dimension; a collective of the righteous souls who have passed into the spiritual realm; a spiritual continuity. Some will say that my personal experience of oneness with a supreme spirit is nothing but a dream or a vivid imagination. It doesn't matter whether you accept or totally reject my story. What does matter is that we evolve to a point whereby we can encourage open-minded people to offer feedback on how our religious beliefs can be brought into the 21st century. Let us hope that man will eventually progress intellectually and evolve to a point whereby he can socialize with totally eliminated tendencies for barbarianism and without fanaticism; This would be true enlightenment. Namaste, Kurt Kawohl http://www.internet-encyclopedia.org...ch=kurt+kawohl |
Are you gonna talk about films at any point? ;)
Ahh what the hell (scuse the expression), i'll bite... (bout time we had another random lecturer around here ;))...
Originally Posted by kkawohl
1. ALL religions have the same goals and all who live by the basic principles of peace will attain their goal. The problems arise when religious fanaticism arises. A fanatic passion to please God has been demonstrated throughout the Ages. We have seen vast destruction and useless killings by religious zealots that have followed us into the present century whereby even technology is unable to quell its tide.
Originally Posted by kkawohl
2. In this 21st Century, the Age of Technology, we are still plagued by religious beliefs that are a contributing cause toward terrorism, killings and wars between nations. Belief in a deity, who keeps causing catastrophes, punishes people, and created the universe out of nothingness as if by magic was brought about by hysteria and superstitions. This thought process needs to be reassessed and brought up to date. Open-minded people must use common sense to determine whether this so-called deity was incorrectly perceived, misinterpreted and misunderstood by the masses of a bygone era.
Now a rational evaluation of modern mystical experiences would be interesting. At the moment we have some "quiet" scientific movement in that direction, in that there have been investigations into brain-damage/stimulations which result in adoption of extreme religious beliefs, visions in migraines and epilepsy, and altered-brain-states under meditation (that i know of - and i must say that my favourite type of scientist always has a "spiritual"/holistic/humble aspect to their work). But an open discussion would be intriguing. If anything it seems to me that some perceive this "technological age" as one which has gone past such considerations or realities - which is a shame (and just plain daft in many ways - I'm thinking mainly here of those rationalists and empiricists who'd like to leave the world of sensation and/or the unexplained behind for the "purity" of thought-alone. That's one of the many types of rational-objectivism i think it's dangerous to think is attainable by a subjective, rationally-investigating, individual)
Originally Posted by kkawohl
3. God is a spiritual unity, a oneness, a structured government-like "Spiritual Collective"; the "Progressive and Accumulative Spiritual Intelligence" of the universe existing in a spiritual dimension; a collective of the righteous souls who have passed into the spiritual realm; a spiritual continuity.
Originally Posted by kkawohl
Let us hope that man will eventually progress intellectually and evolve to a point whereby he can socialize with totally eliminated tendencies for barbarianism and without fanaticism; This would be true enlightenment.
In the meantime, i'm off to see if the Matrix 3 has anything profound to say about joy and dismay, dogma and sway, and the mind's interplay. Never know :) (and you never know, that reference might stop this getting shunted to the miscellaneous thread, for, ooo, maybe about 5 minutes ;)) |
Originally Posted by Golgot
(and you never know, that reference might stop this getting shunted to the miscellaneous thread, for, ooo, maybe about 5 minutes ;))
Has it been 5 minutes yet... ;) ... Moving to Intermission... for now... |
I believe him. I've seen a ghost and I have had incredible synchronicities. I just had a really great one the other day.
Meditation may be okay, but I don't recommend the Transcendental Meditation by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi -- which I've discovered is not easy to learn how to do because you have to attend one of his schools and pay some money. I have heard some horror stories about him and his TM. Of course, Kawohl there, whoever he is, didn't talk about him. |
Originally Posted by Sexy Celebrity
I believe him. I've seen a ghost and I have had incredible synchronicities. I just had a really great one the other day.
Meditation may be okay, but I don't recommend the Transcendental Meditation by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi -- which I've discovered is not easy to learn how to do because you have to attend one of his schools and pay some money. I have heard some horror stories about him and his TM. Of course, Kawohl there, whoever he is, didn't talk about him. At the end of the day TM lines up with buddist meditation practice, Christian mantra prayers, all types of meditation really, even some crazy pseudo-kabbalistic stuff i've read. It's all breathing/body-mind techniques it seems. What do you mean by synchronicities btw? Like deja vu, o que? |
Sorry for not replying sooner...busy.
Now...I am asking for your help in a new endeavor. I'm a transcendentalist & rationalist, non-religious but spiritual. Many of today’s societies are still inundated with religious inconsistencies that are the result of their own politics and dogmas that have become something other than spirituality; they are wrought with superstitions that are also resulting in acts of terrorism. Terrorists are eager to die for the promotion of their causes and are also killing others because of a twisted religion that has them believing they will be rewarded for their faithfulness. Even intellectuals in modern societies have been brainwashed by clinging to beliefs that still subscribe to the antiquated unscientific concept of a personal powerful God that was structured after kings, lords and domineering tyrants who controlled the masses. Spirituality is the spiritual aspect of a person that encompasses the spirit and controls sense. Common sense and rationality dictates that what man has called God is in reality a spiritual unity in the spiritual dimension that has never interfered with and needs nothing from mankind. I would like to enlist your help in changing the face of religions. Can you envision the worldwide headlines if atheists and believers started declaring their allegiance to a modern rational deity that is a spirit which has never meddled in the affairs of mankind? Eventually prejudicial exclusive religions would be considered passé. Albert Einstein stated, “The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity. Everyone who is seriously interested in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe—a spirit vastly superior to man, and one in the face of which our modest powers must feel humble." Your opinion is appreciated. I have started the ball rolling. Please see http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...entalism+today http://www.authorzone.com/view_autho...?authorid=1426 Namaste, Kurt Kawohl |
God used to look like this...
http://photobucket.com/albums/v502/A...ST/th_god1.jpg Now God looks like this... http://photobucket.com/albums/v502/A...ST/th_god2.bmp |
Originally Posted by kkawohl
...I would like to enlist your help in changing the face of religions.
|
Originally Posted by SamsoniteDelilah
Despite the fact that you're clearly a loonie bird, you had me up til here. With rationality as your watchword, you have to realise that there are varying degrees of spirituality, of intellect, of civilization... and that religions serve a purpose for the people who subscribe to them. To imagine that you can convert everyone to one diety and one social structure associated with that spirituality is to turn your back on rationality.
I appreciate your opinion SD...yet, let's not insult the loon...and then claim that rationality is in religion today...is that not an oxymoron? Terrorism is one of our main problems today...so, how can we change Muslim religious ideology to stop terrorism? A fanatic passion to please God has been demonstrated throughout the Ages. We have seen vast destruction and useless killings by religious zealots that have followed us into the present century whereby even technology is unable to quell its tide. Muslims have been led to believe that they must expand Islam in order to please Allah/God. Since Judaism created the present perception of God, it is the duty of Judaism, the originator to bring rationality to a belief in Allah/God if Israel and Judaism wants to live in peace with Muslims. If all the events that occurred as written in the Bible, Qur’an and Torah now, today, would humanity be as gullible now and accept all miracles and God as portrayed then? If the context entails incorrect exegeses and the vast tradition of hermeneutics and the translation is illogical, it is illogical whether it is by my interpretation or by any logic. Mankind has progressed past a need for a God who desires and requires servitude. We can eliminate servitude and still have a closeness and love of God. It was man who placed restrictions on himself for the good of mankind and attributed this to God. Most of us now live in a lawful society. Now laws are proposed and enforced by governments. God does not, and never has meddled in our affairs. If we take rationality completely out of context when establishing an association with present day problems between Jews, Christians and Muslims, we can come up with numerous solutions. Reality however dictates that if there were no distinctions between Muslims, Jews, and Christians, strife would be nonexistent. The major distinction is religion The best weapon against irrationality is logic. If logic is implemented in religion, eventually the inference of reasoning has to predominate and the illogical will be considered inferior and will ridicule itself out of existence. Today we have at our disposal the means whereby the media can reach even the farthest corners of our world. How does one confront the passions of people with a logical entreaty to abandon faith? How does one convince a young man that his self-immolation in a bombing will not bring redemption from Allah to his soul and rewards to his people or honor to his family? If logical reasoning lodges doubt into the mind of a martyr that his soul will be destroyed as a punishment for being the cause of cutting short another soul's ability to attain a bond with Allah/God, eventually the act of self-sacrifice ceases. This is the only effective way that man will eventually attain peace. We can spend billions of dollars in an attempt to annihilate groups of people who have an adamant fanatical goal to destroy anyone who hinders the path of spreading their religion. They believe that this has been commanded by Allah. The end result will always be the same. The fanatics who are destroyed fuel the hatred of a new group with the same or an even fiercer fervor to die for their Allah if the need arises. How do we solve this problem? The pen is mightier than the sword. To the illiterate, visual projections via film is the greatest tool. The media and film producers have always shied away from the possibility of offending religious organizations. A fear of the fundamentalists' wrath has even stifled the desire for the truth. Can the real truth be revealed? Will this end strife? Maybe not, but unless we try, we will never know; will we? True logic is the science of inference and reasoning. Kurt |
Anonymous Last,
Your keed..ing, art & blood line, are wunderbar. |
Originally Posted by Sexy Celebrity
I believe him. I've seen a ghost and I have had incredible synchronicities. I just had a really great one the other day.
Meditation may be okay, but I don't recommend the Transcendental Meditation by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi -- which I've discovered is not easy to learn how to do because you have to attend one of his schools and pay some money. I have heard some horror stories about him and his TM. Of course, Kawohl there, whoever he is, didn't talk about him. You don't need Maharishi Mahesh Yogi or anyone else to meditate...meditation can best be practiced by yourself...just eliminate all thoughts from your mind by repeating one word consistently... ...and you can "Google" "Transcendentalism Today" or "Kurt Kawohl" for more info. |
Originally Posted by Golgot
Ahh what the hell (scuse the expression), i'll bite... (bout time we had another random lecturer around here ;))...
I've always thought so. I don't belong to a designated religion tho, and feel happy for that to be honest. I think they guide in the right direction, but people tend to get a bit over-attached to the structural elements like official texts etc (i saw quite an intriguing debate the other day between four "high ranking" Anglicans debating the gay-bishop issues, and was pleased to see how they were prepared to evaluate the bible's texts on varying levels, and to accomodate each others' appraisals. But then they are appealingly non-dogmatic in my experience ;)) The question might be... what control/influence do such moderates and peace-lovers have over the more zealous members of their faith? Next to none i'd say.
Well, i think you'll find there's even a blind-faith in technology these days amongst some people - and indeed that technology isn't likely to reform the pertinent faculties/elements/tendancies of the human brain just yet (unless you count decreased attention spans and better neuron control over our thumbs for texting as potential dogma-reducers ;))
Now a rational evaluation of modern mystical experiences would be interesting. At the moment we have some "quiet" scientific movement in that direction, in that there have been investigations into brain-damage/stimulations which result in adoption of extreme religious beliefs, visions in migraines and epilepsy, and altered-brain-states under meditation (that i know of - and i must say that my favourite type of scientist always has a "spiritual"/holistic/humble aspect to their work). But an open discussion would be intriguing. If anything it seems to me that some perceive this "technological age" as one which has gone past such considerations or realities - which is a shame (and just plain daft in many ways - I'm thinking mainly here of those rationalists and empiricists who'd like to leave the world of sensation and/or the unexplained behind for the "purity" of thought-alone. That's one of the many types of rational-objectivism i think it's dangerous to think is attainable by a subjective, rationally-investigating, individual)
I'm afraid i'm not a big fan of the enduring/immortal-personalities idea of heaven - but hell (there we go again) you're the one with the experience (which i don't knock by the way.) But i love the cumulative-One-everywhere amalgam image of "god". Tho for me, it would extend beyond a culmination of the the minds of individuals over time. I prefer to think of "God" as a combination of the "knowledge" contained within all matter over time (in all it's forms). But that's just me ;). I always get a bit worried when "god" gets anthropomorphised in any way - makes me suspicious it's just an self-referential analogy-process our minds like to use (which could almost lead back to the why-do-fanatics-get-produced-by-organised-religion thing)
Bring it on baby. If we can build even the tiniest building block for such a social step during our time, well, we'll have done a huge amount. Gotta have means and ways and flexible sways tho.
Namaste, Kurt |
Originally Posted by kkawohl
...Terrorism is one of our main problems today...so, how can we change Muslim religious ideology to stop terrorism?...
A fanatic passion to please God has been demonstrated throughout the Ages. ...
|
When religions are used as a force for shaping and manipulating society it does not mean that its spiritual and altruistic effects are negated but it nevertheless is a manipulation of the masses for selfish or political reasons. Attempts at controlling society by using God as an authoritarian figure or as an angry patriarchal Concept of God has historically always had the indirect dire consequences of motivating peoples desires to please this deity to a point where they will indiscriminately fight and die for that cause. The common man is thereby used as a tool for the political enhancement of the manipulator.
We can see the results of this manipulation most often in the uneducated parts of the world. Fighting between Muslims and Christians in Sudan has for past 21 years been the cause of over two million deaths in that region. Muslims are still told by clerics to expand Islam by any means possible; this supposedly is Allah’s message to Muhammad. This goal of attempting to please Allah has caused strife between Muslims and its neighbors in the Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, India and many other regions of the world. When the truth behind the concept is known, only then can one accurately judge the concept. Spirituality is an interaction of man’s spirit with the Spirit of God. This interaction was often expanded upon by followers who added their own interpretations and gradually the original message was skewed to meet the agenda of the newly formed religion. The complexities, histories, and practices of religions have always been used to indoctrinate and keep new members from questioning the composition of the God that religions have created for the masses. True spirituality and a true God is self-sufficient and requires nothing from mankind. This is the value of truthfulness and rationality. |
Originally Posted by kkawohl
Since Judaism created the present perception of God, it is the duty of Judaism, the originator to bring rationality to a belief in Allah/God if Israel and Judaism wants to live in peace with Muslims.
Originally Posted by kkawohl
We can eliminate servitude and still have a closeness and love of God. It was man who placed restrictions on himself for the good of mankind and attributed this to God.
|
Originally Posted by kkawohl
When religions are used as a force for shaping and manipulating society it does not mean that its spiritual and altruistic effects are negated but it nevertheless is a manipulation of the masses for selfish or political reasons. Attempts at controlling society by using God as an authoritarian figure or as an angry patriarchal Concept of God has historically always had the indirect dire consequences of motivating peoples desires to please this deity to a point where they will indiscriminately fight and die for that cause. The common man is thereby used as a tool for the political enhancement of the manipulator.
We can see the results of this manipulation most often in the uneducated parts of the world. Fighting between Muslims and Christians in Sudan has for past 21 years been the cause of over two million deaths in that region. Muslims are still told by clerics to expand Islam by any means possible; this supposedly is Allah?s message to Muhammad. This goal of attempting to please Allah has caused strife between Muslims and its neighbors in the Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, India and many other regions of the world. When the truth behind the concept is known, only then can one accurately judge the concept. Spirituality is an interaction of man?s spirit with the Spirit of God. This interaction was often expanded upon by followers who added their own interpretations and gradually the original message was skewed to meet the agenda of the newly formed religion. The complexities, histories, and practices of religions have always been used to indoctrinate and keep new members from questioning the composition of the God that religions have created for the masses. True spirituality and a true God is self-sufficient and requires nothing from mankind. This is the value of truthfulness and rationality. |
Originally Posted by SpoOkY
and what you think the that the jewish community will change their beliefs of God after all this time.......and that this change will make other religious groups do the same. If you believe that them you are truly deluded.
People still relate to superficial possessions and memories and attempt to integrate these with the spiritual. The biggest problem is that not only are many Jews still ignorantly clinging to superstitions, it now is the major cause of escalation into a seemingly never-ending conflict between Muslims, Jews and Christians. The Crusades lasted 300 years with each side claiming God’s support. Now thousand years later the conflict is still continuing. De-superstitionizing religions must begin with Judaism if Jews, Muslims and Christians are ever to subdue religious strife.
If it was man then why does the bible state "as the body without spirit is dead, so faith without deads is dead" (James ch 1:17), seeing as this is meant to be God's word isn't he instructing us to become servents for God in terms of our actions. You tend to generalise sooo much about everything, this drastically reduced your persuasive influence.
As time passes and when people eventually transcend their religious prejudices (maybe in 100 years) they will no longer say, “I am a Jew, a Muslim, a Christian”; then they will say “I am a Jewish Transcendentalist, a Muslim Transcendentalist, a Christian Transcendentalist”; and thereafter they will say “I am a Transcendentalist”. |
Originally Posted by SamsoniteDelilah
If we take this post and strip away the things that are true of all religions... and then delete the generalised rhetoric that you've employed which has no bearing on your actual suggestion... what we're left with is the not-so-advanced concept that you just don't like Muslims. You'll forgive me if I don't rush to sign up with your "cause".
In U.S.A. there are more than 1500 religious denomination and faith groups, including 900 Christian, 100 Hindu and 75 Buddhist denominations. Perception plays a major role in religions. There are numerous interpretations of the Scriptures, hence there are various sects who use the same source, theTorah, Bible or the Qur'an, but come to different conclusions. Religious differences are acceptable by the majority as long as fanaticism does not cause physical confrontations. The ironic fact is that the followers of these religions all claim to live by the Word of God. Many claim that God has personally talked to their messengers who have relayed these Words of God to others. Apparently the Words of God were either misinterpreted, God is contradicting himself, or we start all over again by each side claiming to live by and having heard the Word of God correctly. If Jews, Christians and Muslims would ever come to the realization that their God is the same logical deity, rationality would dictate peace and eliminate borders. |
Originally Posted by kkawohl
1. ALL religions have the same goals and all who live by the basic principles of peace will attain their goal. The problems arise when religious fanaticism arises.
3. God is a spiritual unity, a oneness, a structured government-like "Spiritual Collective"; the "Progressive and Accumulative Spiritual Intelligence" of the universe existing in a spiritual dimension; a collective of the righteous souls who have passed into the spiritual realm; a spiritual continuity.
What does matter is that we evolve to a point whereby we can encourage open-minded people to offer feedback on how our religious beliefs can be brought into the 21st century.
|
Originally Posted by kkawohl
that are the result of their own politics and dogmas that have become
something other than spirituality |
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