Religion and morals
 

https://causes-prod.s3.amazonaws.com.../Fy/jC/7OB.jpg

Any takers on either side of the fence? I think this is an interesting question. I agree with it but then it makes me question what gives us the ability to empathise.

Ohhhhh no. I don't have time to have this discussion this week, and yet I know I won't be able to resist. :laugh: I'll try to nutshell it:

This used to come up a lot in the many religious discussions we used to have, which are admittedly much rarer now (and a lot of those are closed now--though only because of dormancy).

The distinction is between how people behave, and whether or not they have a rational basis for that behavior. There is no denying that non-religious people can and do behave morally. This is very much consistent with the teachings of most organized religions, and is, in fact, sometimes explicitly part of it: The Bible, for example, says that even non-believers have the "law written on their hearts." The existence of a conscience is a big part of many theological arguments, as well; it's the beginning of what's essentially a book-long syllogism in C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity.

So it shouldn't be controversial or particularly challenging to any religion that non-believers have a sense of right and wrong. The issue is whether or not it means anything to say something is "right" or "wrong" in a purely materialistic universe. Inevitably, if you drill down deep enough, any materialistic moral system ends up coming down to survival or instinct, neither of which actually overlays cleanly on the traditional Western moral code most of us (believers and non-believers alike) agree on.

Re: Religion and morals
 

I did a search and noticed that.

Nice response, Yods. yeah I sort of look back on eg the pagans and think they must have had a sense of right and wrong without religion, or they would have wiped each other out.

I believe that eny being, except satan, knows what's right or wrong in the final analysis.

Re: Religion and morals
 

Paganism is religion.

Re: Religion and morals
 

I dont regard the divine in nature as religious doctrine. If you do, that's fine, but that's not my question.

That is an excellent distinction.

That's a sort of slippery slope as 'right' and 'wrong' can be contextual.

What makes you say he/she doesnt know right from wrong, if he exists. Wasnt he God's #1henchman? Maybe he just enjoyed being an egomaniac?

I believe Satan knows right from wrong. He merely chooses evil.

It's hard to draw lines when society already has an established set of laws and by extension, accepted levels or morality. I think anyone can empathize or choose to be good or bad without religion, and have a clear understanding of what good or bad is; however, that is still above the safety net of already established social norms. How then were those norms first established? It is impossible to now place this within a vacuum to observe, but we do have history and modern psychology to use as guides for self awareness. Instinctively, we fear out groups. What was right or wrong within our tribe, would not apply to their tribe. Don't kill your neighbor, but that stranger across the river? THE DEVIL!!! Yeah, we still do that. So there's also context as a factor.

gosh. I'm rambling.

Long story short (too late!!!), it's easy to say one can so readily exist without the other, now, after all the rules for engagement have been designed. Without those rules (from whatever source), those born more empathic would of course still be able to feel what those who were born more aggressive are feeling ...as those more in touch with their internal moral compasses are beaten to death for food or territory.


;)

And further to that, does god really know right from wrong? He thought it was ok to sacrifice his own son to torture and death. In my world, infanticide for any reason is pretty bad.

Ramble away :up:

It just got me thinking when I saw that meme. Does my own personal moral code come from a strict religious upbringing or would I have it if I had been brought up as an atheist? I lapsed at the age of 11 but still believe in my own code.

Like all beings, he was created to know and to love God. Henchman? No. He was the angel of light before he became the devil.

You would have been fine if raised atheist, I believe, if for no other reason than for the already established moral code of society. Where did that moral code come from though, is the more interesting question ;)

If God is omniscient and god created Satan then God created Satan to be evil.

In that case, if Satan was created to be 'evil' then is he 'wrong' if he does good?

:D

Henchman was just tongue in cheek to keep it light and bright. You know, like the mods are Yoda's henchmen.:)

LOL my brain hurts. Good point, though.

At first, I was like all grrrrrrrrr! Then I was more like wuuuut? then, at the end there, i was all like totally LOL!

I'm the unknown quantity.

:)

Yeah I think you're onto something. If brought up as atheist would I go about smacking old ladies in the face and kicking kittens? Doubtful. 1. I would be dragged before the court and more importantly 2. that would make me feel bad emotionally