Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

There's some spoilers here for the record if you haven't seen one of the shows i'm talking about then don't read that part of this post. I used tags for The Wire one then realized i'd have to use them throughout and i'd rather not.

I've been talking to TONGO and to a lesser extent Gideon about The Wire and rewatching it as well. It made me think that the only thing i don't like about the show on any level is Brother Mouzone. Some other characters i'm not crazy about but he's the only one i can't find anything redeeming about. He was only there to create a few extra badass Omar moments which goes against everything The Wire is about (Omars badass moments usually have some purpose); The actor was pretty terrible as well IMO.

A few others:

The Sopranos

AJ :rolleyes:, This is about 99% the actor who played hims fault, he could've been a great character. Season 1 AJ is fantastic but he kills so many potentially great scenes later on; my go-to example is always the scene where Tony picks him up and goes nuts when AJ tried to kill Junior. Awful performance there.

Arrested Development:

Season 4 was solid but i didn't like the an episode based on each character structure; one of the best things about the original run was the subplots and the whole family interacting which this pretty much eliminated. From the original run: the Mr(R) F story in Season 3. There was still plenty of great moments so i wouldn't say i hate it but it is still the weakest part of the original run IMO.

South Park:

The last three seasons. Specifically the change to an ongoing storyline. I posted this earlier about it:

I have more, just think i should cut it short.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Lost In Space:
Dr. Smith - for God's sake, the man tried to murder a whole family: women and children, and not just once but multiple times! He's abandon them, tried to sell them, trade them, left them to die, trapped them, imprisoned them and betrayed them to evil aliens countless times. He's a liar, he's lazy, egotistical, arrogant, self-centered, weak, sinister, devious, gluttonous and greedy. He's endangered the family he's tried to murder countless times, yet they end up risking their necks or forfeiting their chances to get home to go back to rescue him!
I agree with Don West - leave Smith behind, or better yet, just put a laser bolt through his head and have done with it. Then maybe the Space Family Robinson could get on with some good sci-fi adventures!

P.S. No offense to Jonathan Harris.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Love you Captain! I thought this was going to be my first thread to completely fail.

I have a collection of those! :)

I completely agree with this. For the first few episodes of that season, I did actually kind of hate it, but my love for the series made me persevere. Either the episodes genuinely got a little better, or I became less critical because by the end, I thought it was alright.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Do you agree with both the Season 4 and Mr F parts, or just one?

I was mostly agreeing with the season 4 part. The Mr F storyline was at the very least memorable, but I don't remember the specifics well enough to judge it.

I certainly remember this though:

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

The more I think about it, the more I remember not liking the Mr F story, but my room mate seems to have really liked it. I think this is the perfect excuse to rewatch Arrested Development. All of it, for context. :shifty:

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

I've watched AD a ridiculous amount of times. That and It's Always Sunny are the perfect shows to have on in the background when you are doing something.

Most of the subplots during the Mr F storyline are excellent so the episodes are mostly good but i find the actual MR F story lacking.

This is probably how I felt when I saw it. I remember really liking certain things, but not the whole Mr F story in general, which is why I'm a little uncertain about whether I liked it or not haha.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

I'm being a bit harsh in all honesty. Arrested Development is so perfect to me that a bit of a misstep like the MR F storyline feels alot worse than it actually is. Any other show and i would've loved it probably.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

As I said in PM to Camo, I agree that Brother Mouzone was a campy waste of space.

For some reason it irked me to see Richard Belzer doing a cameo. Screw the bosses? Well I say screw the guest stars. ;) Other than Ray Lewis, being it was in Baltimore they should have had Ray Lewis do a cameo, and yeah he grew up in that gang stuff.

I also think the name of the show didnt do it any favors. The Wire sounds severe, and isolated as a title. If they just called it "Baltimore" it would have made more sense to viewers going in what its about.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

I've never thought about it but i agree actually that The Wire isn't the best name. I think Breaking Bad and Arrested Development are probably the best names of shows i love.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

I seem to be on an older TV show kick tonight, but anyway...

Superman: (the original TV series):

- Never a super-villain, humongous monster or giant robot to fight during the entire course of the series! Not even a single appearance by Lex freakin' Luthor! George Reeves pretty much fought bank robbers & gangsters in fedoras! Without any super-powered villains, monsters or robots (or even the occasional giant gorilla) there was nothing to challenge Superman's mighty powers.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

The vast majority of the Ross/Rachel thing once they break up.

There's plenty of Friends things that annoy me. Think the Ross/Rachel thing would be #1. Joey getting dumber every season to the point where he is practically braindead during the last few seasons would be a close second. I think they went overboard with Monicas ocd during the last few seasons as well. She's probably my second favourite after Chandler overall but she did become a bit obnoxious near the end.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Ross and Rachel bothers me for sure. The break up is funny but the rest is annoying. Stinks too because they got the Monica and Chandler relationship so right. They are like a how to and how not to book for sitcom relationships.

My #1 by a mile is Nelly from the last couple seasons of The Office. She belongs on a show I would never dream of watching regularly, let alone loving.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Spaced - I never really liked Daisy.

i loved Oz, but hated Robert Clohessy as Sean Murphy the guard.


I loved Cheers but couldn't stand Shelley Long


I loved Smash, but couldn't stand Katherine McPhee


Loved Boston Legal but hated Christian Clemenson as Jerry Espinson

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Phoebe in Friends.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

The L word
First 3 seasons it was a realistic drama,come season 4 and they decide-out of nowhere-to turn it into a comical daytime soap with the most absurd storylines..I pretend those 3 last seasons dont excist.

Lost
I loved season 1..then i fell of cos it was the first show they aired simutaniously here and in the US- we usually get the shows later to avoid the long breaks..and that show made me happy about that..anyway,years later i got netflix and watched the whole thing. It just got too ridiculous,though still entertaining,-seems like they just kept adding on stuff without any thought to how they were going to explain it or end it and they kinda dug themselfs in.

Game of Thrones
cliche characters-especially Khaleesi,sometimes i get annoyed even before she start one of her overdramatic speeches.i dont like a lot of the dialogue,theres too much swearing and nudity just for the shock value.

I didn't actually know you were a Friends fan. The first time i watched the show i really disliked her, she became a real bitch during the second half of the show. Watching it more as i got older i'd actually say she's now my third favourite behind Chandler and Monica; her jokes are the wackiest and her relationships aren't that interesting for the most part, but i just find her really hilarious. If her jokes don't work for you then they'd probably become obnoxious though so i can understand that.

That's exactly what happened. The writers admitted they were making it up as they went along for the most part so i think the end was always going to be underwhelming. I just loved the journey though, plenty of stuff didn't work for me but there was always something interesting going on. I also think it was much better watching and discussing it with people as it happened so watching it years later on netflix could've hurt that a bit.

Yeah I like Friends a lot. Probably this summer I actually ended up watching a lot of it that I hadn't seen before, watched episodes in order, and watch final episode properly.

But yeah, absolutely not funny at all for me. Her jokes are terrible and silly and most episodes I do not laugh at her at all, not joking, some of the episodes towards the ends centric towards her are painful.

For me, my favourite character is easily Ross. Easily the character I laugh at most although I know a lot hate him because they think he is a d*ck, yes he is... but that's what makes him funny. Chandler is my second favourite.

Don't agree on Phoebe but fair enough i can understand that. I'd go:

01.Chandler - Easily the funniest for me and i also think he is the most interesting of the bunch.
02.Monica - Possibly has the most drastic character change of anybody, from the laidback, slightly underdeveloped character of the first couple of seasons to the loud and crazy character later on. She's hilarious though and i think her relationship with Chandler really worked.
03.Phoebe - I find her hilarious for the most part, i also think she can be really adorable.
04.Ross - I go up and down on him, i do think he is hilarious most of the time but he's definitely the least likable character in the show.
05.Joey - He goes downhill the most for me easily. My favourite time in the show was when him and Chandler were roommates, easily the funniest relationship in the show. He just seems to get dumber every season though to the point were i'm cringing at most of his jokes during the last couple of seasons.
06.Rachel - Easily the weakest. Barely ever makes me laugh and the drawn out Ross crap is probably the worst thing in the show. One thing i do like about her is that she's probably the character that changes the most for the positive during the show, from a spoiled brat to a hardworking mother.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

For me:

Ross
Chandler
Joey (agree gets worse)
Monica (agree gets better, miles ahead of overs in terms of being a fleshed out female character for me)
Rachel
Pheobe

"Friends" characters from great to less great:

1. Chandler
2. Ross
3. Rachel
4. Monica
5. Joey
6. Phoebe

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Walking Dead - the commercials.
It's not that just every season and every episode ends with a cliff-hanger, but now it seems like there's a mini cliff-hanger before every commercial... which seem to be coming in droves and with ever greater and increasing frequency.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Not enough teetees in Game of Thrones.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Also agree on the Arrested Development stuff. Season four is weaker but still great, takes a few episodes to get going but I really enjoyed it by the end. Because of all the constraints they had with getting everyone together, they did really well to make it as good as they did. Also agree that I didn't think the Mr F storyline was particularly great, but kind of the things that stem from it, like the recurring Mr F soundbite, are great.

From Twin Peaks there's the Nadine thinks she's in school storyline that is really silly and pointless overall. I am sure people had over problems with season 2 too but that one really stands out.

Yeah, that's great. I've got it in my head that there was a callback to that in season four i think with something different called mrf, but i can't remember what it was or if i'm not imagining it.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Yeah there is, like someone's name began with F or something, like his surname so he was called Mr F______ and when we saw/heard it, that soundbite played. Maybe happened more than once too, I can't really remember now. Need to watch the whole show again, only seen it once.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

I have always found Friends hard to get into, but from what I've seen over the years -- Joey, Phoebe, Ross and Rachel seem like the best characters. Monica is okay because she's Courteney Cox. But Chandler is bottom of the list to me.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

I hate his name -- Chandler. It doesn't work for me.

That's kind of the point. One of the main things about his character is that everything that could possibly go wrong has to him. There's several jokes about both his first and second name (Bing) being terrible, it's supposed to be a he had it tough from the day he was born thing.

Also: Chanandaler Bong :cool:

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Were they trying to copy Seinfeld? Chandler is making me think of Kramer. I know he's definitely not the Kramer character (that would be Joey, I guess), but it makes me think of Kramer.

In what way? I don't think they are that similar, Kramer is probably the luckiest character in Seinfeld. He's one of those characters that not much bad happens to (at least compared to the others) and his actions usually cause problems for the others. I'd say Chandler is closer to Jerry or George.

Kramer was called Kessler in the Seinfeld pilot :laugh:

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

I just think -- Chandler, Kramer. Both weird names with a "chh" sound at the beginning, end in "er."

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Where's the "chh" sound in Kramer? Also Kramer is his surname his first name is Cosmo ;)

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Well, you know, C... K... very similar letters. Chrissy/Krissy, Cassandra/Kassandra, Carl/Karl.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Kramer could have been spelled Cramer.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

The best name in Friends is Gunther Centralperk!

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

I hate the "Frankenmountain" storyline in Game Of Thrones, el stupido

I hate on The Walking Dead that Negan is displaying so much obnoxious sauntering, smacktalk, and swagger.......with a baseball bat! :facepalm: At least have a flunkie with him at all times toting an AK-47 for authenticities sake.

I hate Steven Bauer on Ray Donovan. The reason whys because hes just a crap actor :laugh:

Paige in The Americans: I've said enough about it here - http://www.movieforums.com/community...ad.php?t=47938

Mostly bumping this so it isn't my one failed thread!

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

By all rights, I should be all over any Nicotero-based zombie show on the tube. However, I was souring on "The Walking Dead" ever since the post-Terminus group degenerated into a dime-a-dozen paranoid survivalist militia, and gave up on the show completely when they became assassins for hire ("Will kill for food"). Haven't been able to get into "Fear the Walking Dead" at all -- who DOESN'T deserve to be eaten on that show?

Brennan on "Bones" started out as a badass martial artist -- what happened to that? Why is she now a wuss who needs Booth to save her from situations she should kick her own way out of?

The less said about "House" after the first couple of seasons, the better.

One came to mind while i was watching the King of the Hill episode: Peggy's Headache.

Great episode but it reminded me that some of the Nancy and John Redcorn stuff was really hard to watch. I didn't mind it when it was a joke, it took a few Seasons to explore Dale's character he was just an absurd (although hilarious and amazing) friend of Hank's who i at least didn't care about in any sense other than finding him really funny. When it started to seriously examine the affair it was just horrible though, later on when Nancy stops the affair and starts actually being Dale's wife you are supposed to like her and root for them but i just can't, Nancy is extremely unlikable. So is John Redcorn to an extent but they made his role more understandable with him actually being in love with Nancy and wanting to tell Dale, feeling bad for him, etc. Nancy seemingly doesn't care and just wants to continue the affair and you are just supposed to accept that she is now in love with Dale and everything is okay. Then you bring Joseph into it and ...my god, so confusing; they highlight both his relationship with John Redcorn and Dale in different episodes and through those episodes i just think god i hate Nancy. The end of Peggy's Headache where you see how much Joseph loves Dale is heartbreaking it's really sweet but the ones who come out as good people there are Dale and Peggy, Nachy is just ugh. I will say i loved the later episode where Dale and Joseph come to the ridiculous conclusion that they aren't similar because Aliens impregnated Nancy, really liked that as an explanation for how Joseph wouldn't have started questioning things as it shows that while he isn't biologically Dale's son, he is Dale's son.

I know it's a comedy and i'm probably taking it too serious, as i said though i wasn't until the show started taking it serious. That made it feel real if you know what i mean.

What do you think about this? @jiraffejustin

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

The Nancy-Dale-John-Joseph dynamic, when thought of in the more serious light, can be a tough one to swallow. In a real life situation, this would be a devastating thing to witness. Early on it's played for laughs, as you said, and I think it is often quite funny, but it's always a little sad for Dale and Joseph. When it starts to look further into this situation, you've gotten to know the characters a little more, and you are right, Camo, it can be pretty hard to watch. For me though, I don't dislike it as much as you. I don't necessarily think we are supposed to like and root for Nancy much more than we do for any other person who has given themselves over to some vice but is trying to rehabilitate themselves. It's been awhile since I have seen these episodes, so I might be a little off here, but that is my perspective at the moment. I actually think it's to the shows credit that you feel this way, because it has built up an emotional connection to Dale. Dale is a sweetheart, and what has been done to him is terrible. The moral questions of whether or not to clue Dale in to the situation come up, and I think it's a pretty realistic choice a lot of characters have made not to tell him about it. There is also the theory that Dale already knows what is happening, but he chooses to ignore because he doesn't want to lose Nancy. I like to believe that Dale really is that naive as to not know anything, because it makes him that much sweeter. I think maybe we are supposed to forgive Nancy for her actions against Dale, if only because Dale would probably do the same. She goes through her reconciliation and like the others, doesn't have the heart to tell Dale the truth. People f*ck up, sometimes they f*ck up for a long time. I guess I forgave her.

@Camo I don't really know if I made my point, but here is the response I promised.

There is very little I would take against Gravity Falls, but the moral of Roadside attraction is by far the worst I can find.

Interesting post, Camo. I'm a big King of the Hill fan. It was different from most other animated comedies because it was like a "realistic" cartoon - in that nothing happened that could not happen in real life. It could've easily been a live action sit-com. But, in addition, it always had heart. I always got a warm feeling at the end of each episode.

I loved any episodes that revolved around Bobby. (My least favorites were those that featured Cotton.)

I love Star Trek but . . .

the shields are always under the command of the Captain. Why not let them be under computer control? The Enterprise always get wanged at least once before the command "Shields up!" is heard.

Also, the hand phaser's beam looks like it travels about 100 ft/sec and causes very little damage when hitting surfaces. Damn. Throw that thing down and pick up a .44 magnum -- that will f**k those bad guys up good!

Because the Captain may also want to fire phasers, which can't be done when the shields are up.

There should've been some instances where someone died from a hand phaser on stun - the same way some people go into cardiac arrest and die after getting zapped by a taser.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

I love Star Trek but . . .

When the away team is sent down to a possibly hostile planet, they are sent in their long underwear. Damn. Give those guys some armor or a personal shield.

Yeah really good comment, i obviously don't feel the same way as you but i see where you're coming from.

Think that's part of the problem for me personally, the fact it was presented as a vice at first. Initially she was disgusted by Dale and John Redcorn was just a guy she wanted to have sex with while John was clearly in love with her. I get people being human and making mistakes that's fine, but when the show tries to turn it around on Dale somewhat by showing that he's not been a thoughtful husband i find it even harder to sympathize with her. If it was a fling or if she left him for John because of Dale not being thoughtful that'd be understandable but she kept it going for i'm guessing at least 15 years when you consider Joseph's age, allowing Dale and Joseph to grow attached and allowing John Redcorn to fall for her while having to watch another man bring up his son. I've not seen every episode of King of the Hill so if they return to it later then i'm not aware of it, as far as i know the Dale-John-Nancy arc ends with the episode that John tries to bond with Joseph and is close to telling him he's his son before he decides to pass on his land the government gave him when he's older. For the record Bobby hating the white man in that episode is amazing :D. If that is the case then we are expected to have forgiven and accepted Nancy later on even sympathize for her which i can't do. Like the episode that she thinks she is losing her looks so Dale tries to sue a tobacco company, we are supposed to sympathize with her there and while i find Dale's part at the end really sweet the sentiment is somewhat ruined for me because of my feelings about Nancy.

Anyway, that's just my feelings on it i get where you are coming from. Completely agreed that it is a success for the show that it was able to make me care about its characters.

Not sure if @Captain Steel has any thoughts on this since you said you are a fan?

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Californication - Becca Moody.

This is one of the most annoying characters in television history. She was just pretty bland and boring in season 1, then after that she got excruciating, and just more unlikable with every season. Madeleine Martin also does an awful job playing her. Always the same monotone voice, which makes it hard to take her seriously when her character is supposed to be sad.

24 - People not cooperating with Jack.

I'm on season 7, and this is really getting old now. HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING! Give the guy a break. The court plot in season 7 didn't even go anywhere, so there was no point to it. Much as I love seeing Kurtwood Smith.

Two And A Half Men - Season 9-12.

Enough said.

The X Files - Alex Kersh.

This guy is getting on my ******** nerves... I hope he will be gone soon. Skinner did shut down The X Files too once, but he's incredibly funny and has at least given them many chances. Kersh is just an incredible nuisance, you want Mulder and Scully to repeatedly punch him in the face.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Walking Dead. they act like idiots for drama.

Examples, when Otis and Shane drive to the high school for the medical equipment, the lot next to the supply trailer is covered in walkers, they both run around like morons, take damage, Shane ends up sacrificing Otis to get away with the medical equipment. first fix that came to mind watching it.. "Why doesn't otis jump out since he knows the equipment to grab, then Shane rolls up in the truck honking the horn, flashing the lights, then he idles away leading all the walkers away with him. Otis strolls in, grabs the stuff, waits for Shane to swing back by, throws the bags in the bed of the truck, hops in the cab, they drive off at full speed before anything gets near him.

Or taking the prison: why go into the fenced in courtyard to go "hand to hand" when they could have just stood at the fence making noise poking them in the head when they got close, bam, courtyard cleared, not one shot fired.

Clearing out the cell blocks.... they have the keys, so shut the gates, bang on the bars, spear anything that wanders up through the bars.

The night the farm got overrun... one person jumps in a car, flashes lights, honks horn, idles off drawing all the walkers with them while everyone just sits in the house... if there's more than one wave, repeat as needed.

Doing NOTHING to fortify the prison: find a phone book, get the address of local lumber yards, maybe concrete supplies, go grab enough plywood to cover the fences, eventually make shells and fill with concrete,find a backhoe, dig a nice moat around the place. they didn't even do so much as hang sheets on the fences so random walkers wouldn't see them. just let everything pile up on the fences til they came down.

I get the solutions are boring, but it'd help sell it if they acted like they at least had a clue how to be clever and survive. there's plenty of drama to be had outside the fences on supply runs.

Great ideas!


For me, part of the fun of post-zombie apocalypse movies is placing myself in the situations shown and imagining how I'd handle them. So no, presenting practical solutions wouldn't be at all boring; they'd be kind of the point.

Something I hate from a show I love, or loved might be a better description. The way during certain phases of Doctor Who, the tilt towards comedy resulted in the hallmarks of the show being regarded as send-up. You'll often see the TARDIS being described as "impossible", when really it should be fascinating and inexplicable – by our standards – that a vast spaceship can be disguised by a much smaller exterior. That's how the series started out, and it was great.

No, I'm just saying I get THEIR reasoning behind it, it'd be boring tv to show them doing things the logical and safe way, so they get them doing insane things that just make you wonder "How are ANY of them still alive?"

Like the first episode. Rick gets trapped in a tank... "Trapped in a tank"?? I sure hope if a zombie apocalypse ever goes down I find myself "trapped in a tank" cause I think instead of desperately trying to figure out a way to escape it, I'd be learning to drive it and that'd be my new home.

Or, while in Atlanta, make up a few hundred molotovs since cars/gas/fuel isn't a problem, then drive that box truck through the streets slowly while a couple guys in the back lob mollys out into the crowd following them, once you clean out a section, start barricading the streets/alleys.. clean the city out a block at a time til you run the town....

Even the latest episode, Rick and Michonne get trapped in a car, they climb out the sunroof standing on the roof, walkers surrounding the car unable to climb up after them... so... Michonne's got a nice long reaching katana.. Rick has that axe... start picking them off from that spot where they're safe... but no, the solution is to jump down and run to another area with more zombies to get on the same level as them and deal with them there... they could have had them deal with the ones on the car the safe method, them when they climb down and start exploring, they run into a herd of them... so they don't look stupid, just unlucky.

The show's great but the way they have them deal with zombies just to up the drama makes them look like idiots.

Breaking Bad

Well not hate, but i think the show for as good as it is, it's pretty un-rewatchable. There's this very well executed journey that works so well the first time round, you are watching Jesse and Walt switch places in a believable and exciting manner, their journeys are the inverse of each other; watching one go from good to bad and vice versa we have to travel to everything in-between which takes us to horrible and awesome places. Thing is after you know everything in my experience at least it doesn't really work.

I think if Better Call Saul keeps up the quality it has had it won't have the peaks of Breaking Bad but it will be a more complete and rewatchable show to me at least.

I found BrBa highly rewatchable but I am a chronic rewatcher. The only one I found hard to rewatch was when Jesse's house became a meth den. It made me physically sick, like projectile vomit sick. BCS, however, I find even more rewatchable.
Yes I know I need Rewatchers Anonymous.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Jerry Seinfeld is the worst thing about Seinfeld.

Dunno about the worst thing but he's definitely the worst out of the main four.

George>Elaine>Kramer>Jerry

Also out of most popular recurring: Uncle Leo>Newman every day.

I rewatch most of my favourite dramas (Breaking Bad is one of them) but i struggle to get through more than two or three episodes of BB now. That's not taking anything away from it, it's one of my very favourite first time watches.

Really packed a punch, didnt it.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

LOL Cam, you must get a tonne of PMs. Inbox full again.

Re: Things You Hate From Shows You Love
 

Done.

I keep forgetting about profile comments.