The Irishman
 

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The Irishman (2019)

This is a first rate production in nearly all aspects. It's chief detraction is the feeling of familiarity with the character types. There have been enough outstanding pictures where each of the main actors have played memorable Italian/Sicilian mob figures, that the tendency is to mistake the characters as cookie cutter versions of earlier dramas. The fact that neither Hoffa nor Sheeran were Italian can be lost on the audience, despite the film's title.

It would be helpful to viewers to first familiarize themselves with the Hoffa/Teamsters/mob events of the 1960s. I grew up with the Hoffa saga, and there simply was not a larger nor more familiar personality in the news, week in and week out. His press attention, his loud mouth, and his insistence on re-establishing his Teamsters authority resulted in his murder.

The tone and pace of the film were absorbing. Scorsese took Steven Zaillian's screenplay (from the book by Charles Brandt) and allowed ample time for the characters to develop their relationships-- a pleasing change from today's split second, short attention span action flicks. The cinematography by Rodgrigo Prieto --a veteran of films by Innaritu, Stone, and Scorsese-- is captivating, with perfect framing and lighting.

The heavyweight cast was a delight to watch: not only the 3 principals (DeNiro, Pacino and Pesci, along with Harvey Keitel), but a superb supporting cast including Bobby Cannavale, Ray Romano, and Stephen Graham.

Much was made of the "de-aging" of the principals. It was a detraction, more so in portraying their very early years. But from the time they were middle aged and older, the make up and styling were very effective. Granted, the scene where a 76 year old DeNiro thrashed a younger heavier shopkeeper looked fakey. However it didn't change the meaning of the action.

The period music was fitting, and helped establish the feel of the era. "In the Still of the Night", the doo-wop hit by The Five Satins was one of the best period specific songs, and is one of the all time slow dancing make-out songs. There were other memorable hits from the era, such as "I Hear You Knocking", "A White Sport Coat (and a Pink Carnation", and "Cry", to name a few.

One gets the feeling that this will be Scorsese's last "mob" type picture, and if so it's a strong and fitting way to exit the style.

Doc's rating: 8/10

Re: The Irishman
 

Finally saw this, in one sitting (some breaks, but not broken up over multiple nights, which seemed like a possibility at first). Very good, interest never really waned, which is pretty impressive given the run time.

I didn't find the effects distracting, particularly given how much talk there's been about them. That might've tempered me to expect a lot worse, dunno, but I was pretty impressed and mostly forgot about them after awhile.

It was really nice, if nothing else, to see De Niro, Pesci, and Pacino, in a situation where you knew they wouldn't dream of phoning it in. All three guys showed they've still got tremendous talent and ability, even if maybe they don't find themselves in as many situations where they can (or can be persuaded to) flex it. Pacino's got his whole Pacino stamp on there, to be sure, but it fits the character, and De Niro does some really beautiful, subtle stuff. His whole performance is refreshingly tentative (notice all the modest stuttering during voice over).

I don't think the film's doing anything too revolutionary, but it's definitely another great mob film from Marty, and in a lot of ways a bit more patient and mature than his others, if not quite as entertaining as a result. It's more brutal, and more about relationships, than the others. There are fewer Moments from this film, but it's gripping on a deeper level.

Re: The Irishman
 

Haven't seen this yet but holy buckets that runtime!

The aging effect didnt bother me so much and I only really noticed it once twice on close-up side views of his face. I was aware but it wasn't distracting. What was distracting, however, was De Niro's physicality in a few scenes. For example, his speed and gate when walking and tossing guns into the rivers both showed his age and limitations. It appeared as though he had little mobility in his shoulders and from his hips down. That was more difficult to accept than all of the aging effects combined.

I took the stammering also as a sign of the actor's age (and possible frailty) rather that the character's humility. The truck breaking down "kid" comment only brought more attention to these distractions for me. Had that one line been omitted I might not have been so bothered.

I'll need to watch it again to see how I feel. I had to break it into two nights and, oddly, it felt like two different movies. I think Hoffa's story was the hook for me. Time lines were already fragmented so I wonder how it might have played to include that earlier on. Iderno.

I also noticed how De Niro showed his age with the way he moved more than anything. One thing about Pacino calling him kid, at least in the Boston area this is not uncommon. There are guys who call other guys kid regardless of age, the person could be twice as old. I've always thought it was odd.

Yeah, the "kid" reference had nothing to do with age. It was intended more in a way of a boss talking to an employee, or a higher up referring to an underling. Sometimes "kid" is used simply as a term of affection or friendliness. It was common in the 1960s.

Re: The Irishman
 

Yeah, that's what I took from it, too, but it was definitely jarring because Pesci didn't really "feel" much older.

Totally agree re: old man movement, though. Most egregious in the scene with the kicking on the sidewalk. Those kicks weren't really sold much.

Oh, I don't think so. Why wouldn't they just do another take? It happens dozens of times, and the character is specifically supposed to be tentative, compared to the others. I think it's very deliberate and a really good choice, especially in the voiceover.

For any of you who enjoyed the songs and instrumentals used in The Irishman anywhere near as much as I did, here is a site which lists each of the pieces, along with a video/audio of the original artists.

https://www.slashfilm.com/the-irishman-soundtrack/

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I really like how they remade robert de niro in his 40s, at least i can feel im in a movie with robert de niro 25 years ago which is good

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I like a lot of the stuff that's on the soundtrack well enough but to me as with the Americana visuals I didn't really get the sense of connection to the story. It works as a bit of a contrast to the brutal violence you see in the montages but I don't get the sense it represents the characters.

In Goodfellas similar kind of music works for me because it reflects Henry Hill trying to buy into a respectable middle class lifestyle but I don't get the same sense of that with Frank Sheeran.

I think the chosen songs were used to set the character of the era, and to me that worked very well.

I'm trying to remember if in The Godfather the music was in contrast to the scenes where Corleone was retaliating by killing many of the other mobster leaders. Can't recall if it was opera or not, which has been used effectively in other films.

~Doc

I honestly don't remember the stuttering to be consistent. Could be in part that I split my viewing over two nights. Could be the time jumps and I didn't make the connection to the age of the character when it was happening. I do remember questioning it and asking why not another take. I couldn't answer that at the time though and the awkwardness (and me having an internal debate over it) all became too much of a distraction. I suppose, for me, the smaller points of his appearances to look younger yet moving with an apparent older body may have put me out just enough to question other elements such as his stuttering. Something that otherwise might not have caught my attention. Or at least not colored in the light that I perceived it.

Re: The Irishman
 

Having watched the a film, one must remember that we must take Sheeran account with a grain of salt. There are many who doubt the veracity of his claims.
That being said, I don’t require a film to adhere 100% to the truth.
I enjoyed the film, and felt Anna Paquins character as his conscience, ever silent, ever watching, giving him knowing glances that he understood she was aware of his deeds.
She could have has more dialogue, but that’s another matter. As a silent witness, she’s important.
The idea of death surrounding all who get involved in their way of life was another theme, as details are imposed, concerning every minor character who appeared , revealing their fate.
And there lies one last theme. Fate. Sheeran and Hoffa couldn’t escape theirs

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I think I was mostly enamored with Robert De Niro's character for most of this film. Although Al Pacino was oftentimes hilarious in it. He wasn't funny in the "DiCaprio's silly dance in Wolf of Wall Street," but he reminded me of my grandfather yelling at a cashier over flip flops. I especially loved how offended and bothered he was over the guy being 15 minutes late and how he kept coming back to it. De Niro's character, I think, can best be described as a sociopath. I didn't think it or truly appreciate it until about 2 or 3 hours into the film. I knew he was an angry, explosive type, but I didn't really appreciate how empty he seemed. It was like, through the years, he kept removing little bits and pieces of himself, becoming more callous and empty, and yet, not in an overt way. The scene when he was in the church and explained away feeling guilt over everyone he'd killed by saying, "Oh, I didn't know the families," or "I think me being here might be reason to think I'm sorry," really showed how, through the years, he became a zip-lock bag masquerading as a real person. I think that's what I like about this film. Sometimes Scorsese and others really glamorizing crime. For good reason, it's good entertainment, but this film really takes you through the story and shows that, even if De Niro's character was one of the few to "survive," he didn't really.

Re: The Irishman
 

Watched it over 3 nights :lol:. I don't care what anyone says about the run time it's just too damn long. And it's not the most griping movie that can afford that. It can be a slow burn at times. I don't think I'd ever sit down and watch the thing in one sitting.

The deaging stuff worked pretty well but there was just not hiding the way they moved, especially Di Niro. He moved like a guy pushing 80 trying to kill people. Especially one egregious scene. I'll always find it ironic Di Niro, who really broke out with his role in the Godfather II, by playing a younger version of a character an older actor could not, did this movie. Took away opportunity from a younger actor :shrug:. He is just so insufferable with his politics it bothers me more with him. Pesci can do what he wants because he is the man.

Di Niro, Pacino and Pesci were all very good. It's a compelling mob flick from Martin Scorsese of course it's going be high quality. It was a little tough to follow towards the middle of the flick for me. Maybe on repeat viewings, which I probably won't attempt, it would be clearer for me. Think he went on too many divergent paths at some points in the film. It's an entertaining enough movie, that will probably dominant award season but I found it a poor man's Goodfellas. I think he should have leaned more into the Hoffa stuff because that was the interesting parts. We get how the mob works, you gave us Goodfellas for that :lol: Of course it's worth a watch, but it doesn't have very much repeat value to me

I'd give it 3 out of 5.

For sure, it could have definitely cut at least 30 minutes from it. The last 20 mins in particular about him trying to rebuild a relationship with his daughter and then contemplating his inevitable death, which was a main theme, was analyzed. Still, it definitely was enjoyable regardless of runtime mostly due to the performances.

Re: The Irishman
 

Yeah, I don't think you can call this a poor man's Goodfellas anymore than you can call Unforgiven a poor man's Outlaw Josey Wales. They're both ostensibly about the same thing with the same creators but, as Ebert would say, it's how they're about the same thing that matters - Henry Hill actively making the choice to join the mob because he thinks it's cool is different from Frank Sheeran passively moving his way up the ladder because he sees it as just another way to provide for his family, for instance (I get the feeling that there are more point-by-point comparisons to make but I think that one distinguishes the two at the core enough so that I'm not writing one off just because it has also has a montage of stuff falling off the back of a truck).

I found the age thing to be entirely distracting. During the "fight scene", why oh why didn't they use a stuntman/double? I was thinking to myself during the fight "is he going to keel over and die?"

Looked like a fight in the retirement home over who gets the last tapioca at the pudding bar.

My other overall complaint is that this crew has done it all already regarding organized crime. (I'll avoid the obvious list).

I want to see the obvious list.

Re: The Irishman
 

https://twitter.com/rkylesmith/statu...25672301727744
:fire: :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:

I suppose:

Good Fellas
Good Fellas in Vegas (Casino)
Godfather I, II, III
Scarface
Carlito's Way
Once Upon a Time in America
The Death Collector
8 Heads in a Duffel Bag
Donnie Brasco
A Bronx Tale
[...]

The possible mob plot permutations for these guys are becoming exhausted IMO. {shrug} For instance, I no longer see Pesci as a new character, but as "Tommy DeVito"...

LOL. For me or Iroquois?

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For the tweet just before.

I'm guessing you're using an adblocker that's blocking the JavaScript that embeds it so it looks like I'm just posting the fire emojis.

It's different enough when it comes to the unions and the old gangster thing (which is touched upon in some of those titles but not explored quite as thoroughly as it is here). If anything, this movie reminded me that Pesci can do more than just be Tommy DeVito.

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Yeah, there's a nice meta expectation thing going on where, by having Pesci play a very calm, collected, in-control character, it creates a lot of tension simply because we expect that particular actor to play a different kind of character.

Ok. But that kind of thing doesn't always work either. For instance, IMO, Dustin Hoffman was entirely the wrong guy to play in Billy Bathgate. The entire movie seemed off because of it. If that's some kind of beneficial meta-tension, then sobeit, but it ruined the movie for me. He's just not edgy enough somehow.

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For sure, it can backfire, too. It's not guaranteed to work.

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I might rewatch the film sometime, I'd say it's an easier rewatch than Raging Bull, at least for me.

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Watched this again the other day, not sure why, just felt compelled to. Still think it's extremely good. I'm not sure it's kinetic enough to be as watchable as Scorsese's other great films, but I really appreciate how melancholic it is. I appreciate that Marty completely sold out to make the point he was making a little more subtly in his previous gangster films. It feels like the last one he'll ever make: an extra emphasis on the end result of that lifestyle on an individual level, but also its passing from society at large.

I also appreciate the degree to which he still finds, after all these years, little flairs and bits of style to tuck away into otherwise straightforward scenes, like Frank's voiceover suddenly turning into a direct address once the camera gets him face to face. Marty could be forgiven for phoning some of this stuff in, and I kind of expect that's what this would be in the lead up to the release, but I'm very happy to have been wrong.

And my goodness, some of the acting in those scenes, those scenes where nobody explicitly says what's happening, or what's going to happen, but everybody knows anyway.



I'll never love it or compulsively watch it the way I love and watch Casino, and it'll never be talked about half as much as Goodfellas, but it's an excellent film, and I think it's wonderful that he found a little corner of the genre he nearly owns that he hadn't painted all the way to the edge in, and filled it in before he hangs it up.

Re: The Irishman
 

Oh, and I barely thought about the de-aging stuff at all the second time. I never hated it and it never really took me out of the film the first time (though I thought about it a lot then), and it might as well have been non-existent on the rewatch.

Mostly agree with this, although I tend to return to different Scorseses than your cited favourites. But not sure I understand the sellout comment?

Yeah I have weird tastes as far as Scorsese is concerned. Casino is my favorite and I think much more of The Departed than most.

I mean "sell out" as in "go all out for" and not in the pejorative sense of "compromise artistic vision for money" sense, if that's the issue.

I owe Casino a rewatch as I found the last third a bit trying, but it's been a few years. The Departed held up very nicely with a rewatch last year, which was the first time I'd seen it since high school I think.

Ah ok, that makes more sense. I think the closest Marty got to actually selling out is Boxcar Bertha, but I think even that has some decent style. And that was him trying to learn how to make movies under Corman so "selling out" probably isn't an accurate term. I also found a fair amount of his personal touch in The Color of Money and Cape Fear, which I think are far from the sellout assignments they're sometimes cited as.

Yeah, it is long, but then so is The Irishman. Casino is just emotionally exhausting. But I love that it's kind of the middle ground between the pure fun and action of most of Goodfellas and the somber meditation of The Irishman. Like smack dab in the middle, almost like he made the three films as a gradation from one into the other (there's even an "you're not really one of us and we never quite forget it" throughline to all three. Hill is just half-Italian, Rothstein is Jewish (and they mention it a lot), and then of course Frank.

Anyway, the thing that I love best about Casino is its immersive depiction of a dysfunctional relationship. There's a lot of very perceptive stuff in there about how people in those situations think, and convince themselves of things.

Yeah, while I enjoyed it the first time through, it's just too crazy (especially since I didn't see Infernal Affairs until later) to keep up with and appreciate. It's fun but it's bonkers. The second (and third, and fourth...it became one of those films I just put on for no reason) viewing, it's easier to step back and see the machinations clearly, and how they flow from one another. Other than a certain on-the-pointy-nose shot at the end, of course.

Yeah, with Casino, now that I know how the third act goes (constant shouting matches between De Niro and Stone), I might be able to gel to it better. But yeesh, that was a rough final stretch (intentionally so).


I'd dreaded revisiting The Departed as it had been derided as a mid-2000s film bro classic (roughly on the level of The Boondock Saints in some circles) and I wasn't sure how much I trusted my teenage opinion. But I think the movie is, among other things, really good at using its cast. Like Leo's occasionally obvious acting and Damon's dweebishness become integral to their characters. I mean, if you cast Mark Wahlberg and not only get a very good peformance out of him but also let him manage to steal the movie from a bunch of heavyweights, it's safe to say you know how to use your actors.

I love Casino too...it has enormous rewatch appeal, whenever I run into it channel surfing, I always stop and watch it.

Just rewatches this recently and it’s even better the second time around. Pacino owns the screen each time he is on. He embodies Hoffa.

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John-y come lately, but finally got a copy of this from criterion this week and watched yesterday. The De-aging thing didn't bother me very much, De Niro's blue eyes I found more distracting during the beginning. Definitely a slow burn. Would definitely watch again.

The Irishman is an excellent film that is sure to delight fans of gangster movies and classic Scorsese. Its stellar cast brings the story to life, with De Niro and Pacino delivering exceptional performances. The film also features a strong supporting cast, including Ray Romano, Anna Paquin, and Bobby Cannavale.

The Irishman is a slow-burn drama that is more about the characters and their actions than about the plot. While the story does have its share of action and suspense, it is ultimately a character driven story that is a meditation on loyalty, honor, and regret.

The Irishman is an outstanding film that is full of great performances and a powerful story. It is a must-see for fans of Scorsese and for anyone who enjoys a good gangster movie. Highly recommended.

Did you "write" this with ChatGPT or something?

Yeah, I'm surprised if that is an actual person.

It honestly doesn't sound that different to me than about 80 percent of published reviews. So I guess there is a good reason why it is assumed AI can replace actual human discourse.

Will rewatch sometime this year. I'm gonna marathon Scorsese's (directed) films starting this april.

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The Irishman is a good one I guess

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Not a good movie,too long and boring,watch Goodfellas,Casino,or Scarface instead.

Bump:

I may have been wrong about this, as I felt a weird desire to watch it again (third time) this week. Still really good. There's a lot of depth here. Things keep occurring to me.