Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Originally Posted by Powdered Water
I don't know who Moondog is but it should be the other way around. Carlin was talking about this well over 10 years ago.
And I get that you're trying to help in your own way and I wish you good luck with that, I truly do. Carlin I like, but I think his argument there doesn't apply to the core issues on this one. No one's arguing that 'the planet' is ultimately in danger here (outside the overly-hairy-bike-riding community ;)). The implications of 'CC' hit on what you're worried about - food in bellies and the like (just in the long-term too - as mark pointed out). I agree that you've gotta look out for 'greenwash' - but to differentiate between snake oil & long-term-sustenance you've gotta engage with the details a bit, no? (PS thank you :)) |
Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Originally Posted by Golgot (Post 500089)
Carlin I like, but I think his argument there doesn't apply to the core issues on this one. No one's arguing that 'the planet' is ultimately in danger here (outside the overly-hairy-bike-riding community ;)). The implications of 'CC' hit on what you're worried about - food in bellies and the like (just in the long-term too - as mark pointed out).
This isn't really germane to my point but in a way it is. I went ahead and read most of the first article about the trees and I found it to be a total fear based piece that basically told me that trees do in fact die. Really? Well thanks for that. The study only supposedly (I'm a hard line septic, does it show?) goes back to 1955. How long has this planet been around again? How can we as a species deign to think that some study that is barely even 50 years old will somehow help us understand our planet and these so-called changes? Again this is where I agree wholeheartedly with Carlin. The planet is fine its the people that are f**ked. We may in fact be a minor irritation to the world in some way and if we are then the planet has already started things in motion to heal itself. What we need to do is get ready for the changes. If we can, it may be to late for us. It's very likely that we will not inhabit this earth forever. We can't stop what's going to happen. Its already happening by some peoples accounts and studies. So what am I to do?
I agree that you've gotta look out for 'greenwash' - but to differentiate between snake oil & long-term-sustenance you've gotta engage with the details a bit, no?
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Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
I just want more people to love each other and actually admit to it or do something about it (such as contribute to hunger programs or vote to reduce the possibility of things which WE DO/ DO NOT DO which will somehow keep any babies from eating enough. I mean, is there any single person here (I already know the answer, so forgive me) who doesn't believe that every baby conceived should be fed, at least if they are, truly, a baby? I love everybody here, even if I seemingly don't speak to you directly. I would wish you to respond as soon as you see this because YOU are loved. Sorry, this is nothing but a call for lost children who feel that they may actually have somehow lost or found their family. This is 100% not about bogus BS, so only respond if you can be honest and you're comfortable. :yup: God Bless.
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Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Originally Posted by Powdered Water (Post 500082)
But to me there are way more important things that I feel humanity as a whole needs to address. Like for starters: How about we get everybody on the planet fed and then we can at least talk about global warming after someone who hasn't eaten in a week has a nice full belly.
Warning it's Sam Kinison http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0q4o58pKwA |
Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
I like Sam Kinison and George Carlin probably more than most...
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Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Me too. And I love you to Mark. You're a good man. I don't care what Holds says about ya.
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Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Golgot:
For the sake of argument would you concur that This is a pretty fair and balanced assessment of greenhouse gases and how they pertain to your arguments? |
Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Originally Posted by Powdered Water
I disagree, that isn't his only take on the world, he also has talked in the past about "Soft language" and Politicians,
Originally Posted by PW
but his point is a valid one. We as a people most likely will be able to do very little about what is happening here. Why? Because most folks just don't care and the majority don't believe its an issue anyway.
Originally Posted by PW
Besides, what is it we're really trying to get at here? If taking better care of the planet will somehow get folks to somehow stop killing each other then I'm all for it.
Originally Posted by PW
This isn't really germane to my point but in a way it is. I went ahead and read most of the first article about the trees and I found it to be a total fear based piece that basically told me that trees do in fact die. Really? Well thanks for that. The study only supposedly (I'm a hard line septic, does it show?) goes back to 1955. How long has this planet been around again? How can we as a species deign to think that some study that is barely even 50 years old will somehow help us understand our planet and these so-called changes?
I do find uber-sceptic reactions like this intriguing. Firstly, the study tells you more than 'trees die'. It asserts that US trees, of all types, are dying at an increasing rate and not being replaced. And that this is at least not a short-term trend but one extending over half a century. Why is that not interesting to you, as a stand alone fact? I find it intriguing that you could be so blase about it. And secondly, this study is just a stand-alone work separate from the body of evidence on historical climate change and the 'basic physics' that may drive it. Its focus is... trees. Is a 50yr trend not good enough for you now when it comes to tree studies? Is that too piffling & lightweight an investigation for you?
Originally Posted by PW
Again this is where I agree wholeheartedly with Carlin. The planet is fine its the people that are f**ked. We may in fact be a minor irritation to the world in some way and if we are then the planet has already started things in motion to heal itself. What we need to do is get ready for the changes. If we can, it may be to late for us. It's very likely that we will not inhabit this earth forever. We can't stop what's going to happen. Its already happening by some peoples accounts and studies. So what am I to do?
There's no need to be such a fatalist. We've got more talents than just ****ing things up ;)
Originally Posted by PW
Well I suppose that's true. Don't you find though that when you are talking to someone about this "issue" that they already have their minds made up and in turn its next to impossible to get them to see reason? Or even enter into a debate about it?
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Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Originally Posted by Sir Toose
Golgot:
For the sake of argument would you concur that This is a pretty fair and balanced assessment of greenhouse gases and how they pertain to your arguments? Now, what devilishness are you planning... :D |
Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Originally Posted by Golgot (Post 500139)
Now, what devilishness are you planning... :D
It's just that your sources are a bit slanted and there are other sites who slant in the opposite direction. I'm just looking for a baseline to start from before we waste a bunch of time discrediting each others sources. |
Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Originally Posted by Sir Toose
No devilishness :)
It's just that your sources are a bit slanted and there are other sites who slant in the opposite direction. I'm just looking for a baseline to start from before we waste a bunch of time discrediting each others sources. Well tell you what, why don't you suggest some issues you have problems with - such as assertions on the wiki page you think are errant/contradicted elsewhere etc? I think it's a given that I've bought into large swathes of CC thought/assertions, so sources I cite will often be supportive of that theory (but almost always based in scientific research for the most part - for what that's worth to you ;)) |
Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Crap. I just lost a huge post trying to reply to you Gols. I'll try to revisit this with you later when I can muster up the energy to type it up again. It took me over an hour and I lost it all. I don't know what the story is with my internet connection lately but I've lost several long post in the last few days and its very frustrating.
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Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
I think we really need to do something about to help curve climate change... and soon.
Climate is the average weather of an area... like over a long period of time, so even though now it may still be cold, the earth in general is experiencing a general warming. That's not good in the least, as the earth warms, the permafrost thaws in the summer and realeases ages old CO2 and other greenhouse gasses in to the air, which will dramatically increase the already high levels in our atmosphere. On top of that, pieces of ice on the antarctic and glaciers and the like melt more and more each year... raising the water level. But what is more worrying is that for every 3 degrees (celcius) the water temp. rises, the water will expand and raise the sea level roughly... (can't remember exactly but we did the math and i have the notes somewhere around here) roughly 2-4 feet i believe, which is simply astonomical. so thats some basic stuff i know about Climate change... and this is all pretty much what i've learnt in my Meteorology class at university over the past few weeks |
Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Originally Posted by Outbreak (Post 500247)
so thats some basic stuff i know about Climate change... and this is all pretty much what i've learnt in my Meteorology class at university over the past few weeks
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Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
haha unfortunately not... but I go to York U in Canada so my school has been on strike for the past 3 months so half the stuff i forgot over the long brake... I've only been back one week, and have that class once so far... besides, I've smoked alot of weed during the strike :P
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Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Originally Posted by Powdered Water
Crap. I just lost a huge post trying to reply to you Gols. I'll try to revisit this with you later when I can muster up the energy to type it up again. It took me over an hour and I lost it all. I don't know what the story is with my internet connection lately but I've lost several long post in the last few days and its very frustrating.
(I guess just use the preview & back up occasionally in word - I'm kinda in that habit now days, coz my net eats some of my mammoth posts too on occasion. Bah) |
Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
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Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Climate Change sceptics say 'Damn, they told us so' :p |
Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Just as a first-glance overview, I find it interesting that the people who have taken the time to think about all this seem fairly-concerned-to-panicked about climate change, while the main comment from those opposed is that they don't want to think about it, or don't believe that they can do anything (but refuse to listen to suggestions).
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Re: Hot Under The Collar (Climate Change Chatter)
Originally Posted by SamsoniteDelilah
Just as a first-glance overview, I find it interesting that the people who have taken the time to think about all this seem fairly-concerned-to-panicked about climate change, while the main comment from those opposed is that they don't want to think about it, or don't believe that they can do anything (but refuse to listen to suggestions).
You can find lazy/'auto-partisan' thinking on all sides tho :| (PS Toosey may attempt to devour you whole for lumping him in with the 'don't want to think about it' crowd ;)) |
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