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-   -   Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut vs. the original (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=51932)

ironpony 11-07-17 05:16 PM

Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut vs. the original
 
I found out about the Richard Donner Cut and why he made his own cut so I decided to check it out, since Superman II is one of my most favorite superhero movies.

I like a lot of the things in the Donner Cut for sure. I love the scenes with Superman and Jor-El that were put back in. I feel that they are written better and flow better than the Lester version with Super-man and Lara's scenes. Not that Superman and Lara's scenes where bad, I just like the Jor-El ones better.

I also liked how the attack on the white house was extended and resulted in some grittier violence against the secret service men. I feel they didn't need to cut this in the Lester version, if they felt it was too violent, cause it wasn't really, just grittier, in a good way.

And some of the more strange things are taken out, which was for the better, such as Superman throwing the giant S, and redubbing of the mute henchman's scream, which was nice as well. The guy talking on the phone during the attack on the streets was cut too, which is a good thing overall.

I suppose Lois Lane shooting at Clark with blanks to test to see if he is Superman, is better than Clark falling and burning his hand by accident. However, the footage doesn't work in the sense of the obvious continuity flaws, when the new footage is added. So this is both a pro and a con.

I do not like how Superman and Lois have sex before Superman gives up his powers though. It feels like Lois having sex with Superman as a human was a pay off, to him giving up his powers for her. So the pay off came first in this case, and it didn't feel near as special as a result.

I didn't like how Donner removed the opening sequence with the terrorists wanting to bomb the Eiffel tower. I thought it was a really good opening and better than the opening Donner had originally conceived. I know that this movie and the first Superman were originally suppose to be one movie, now that they are two movies, the Eiffel tower opening works a lot better in that case.

The worst part of Donner's cut is how his opening with Lois Lane was changed though. In Lester's cut, Lois starts to think there are resemblances between Clark and Superman so she decides to ask him questions and test it. When she doesn't get the answers she likes, and thinks about it, becoming so convinced, she decides to jump off Niagra Falls hoping Superman will save her to prove her point.

Now this comes about one third into the movie, cause she builds up her decision to jump throughout the first third.

In the Donner Cut, in Lois's first scene, she sees a picture of Superman in the paper, then looks at Clark, and then decides to jump right out of the office building window, right then and there, no question, hoping Clark will reveal that he is Superman.

There is no build up to her deciding to jump like that hardly, and it feels like it comes out of nowhere. Right there, I had doubts about Donner's cut being able to recover from that, cause I was really taken out of it, because of her jarring decision.

And later as I suspect, the Niagra Fall jump was cut completely, cause Donner wanted to opt for this much more jarring test of Lois's, with no legitimate build up to it.

I also do not like how after Superman defeats the villains, he is with Lex Luthor and Lois, then once he leaves the fortress of Solitude with Lois, Lex Luthor is not longer there with them. Superman then decides to destroy the fortress of solitude. Why? Was Lex Luthor in there and he just murdered him then? It was a huge continuity flaw I felt.

And I can understand that Donner wanted to take out the kiss that erased Lois's memory, and have Superman time travel back in time to erase her memory instead, cause Superman never had those kissing powers in the comics. But the problem with this is, now that he has time traveled back to erase her memory, Zod and his goons are now a threat that have to be stopped all over again, and the movie never addresses this.

I prefer the ending where it shows Superman return the flag to the white house, which I thought was nice, but they cut this out of the Donner cut as well.

So overall, I would have to say that the Lester cut is better. Donner has some things that he added to improve the movie, but I think he got carried away, and ended up putting back in things, that do not gel, continuity wise, with the current movie, he had to work with.

I think the ideal version would leave the Jor-El footage in, and the extended white house attack, but everything else is worse in his version compared to Lester's. There are more cons than pros, and Lester's version is my preferred one if I had to pick.

But what do you think?

DickLester 06-01-20 05:04 AM

Re: Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut vs. the original
 
Dick Lester's film is the better version!

Gideon58 06-05-20 01:17 PM

I* would love to see the Director's Cut of this film.

rambond 06-05-20 01:18 PM

Re: Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut vs. the original
 
i didn t know there are two versions of this film? what s the difference?

Yoda 06-05-20 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by rambond (Post 2097261)
i didn t know there are two versions of this film? what s the difference?
The OP describes the differences.

Mesmerized 06-05-20 01:37 PM

Re: Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut vs. the original
 
I saw both versions and I liked the Richard Lester version better.

Captain Steel 06-05-20 05:49 PM

Re: Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut vs. the original
 
It's been a while (bought the Superman box set years ago which had the various cuts).

Donner's version is interesting from a study point of view, but doesn't work as a film (either a stand alone one or a sequel): it has bits of Reeve's & Kidder's screen tests (or rehearsal footage or whatever it is) put in where they look markedly different than in the rest of the film.

Donner wanted to use the time-travel bit (that was used in the first movie) as his culmination for the second - so Superman 1 and the Donner cut both end with the same time-travel solution, so the Donner cut can't be viewed as a sequel to the first.

It's interesting to see what Donner intended, but the only way his "cut" could be a film would be if he'd had complete control over both the first two movies, had changed the ending to the first, and had re-filmed the added on parts in his cut so as to make them continuous with the rest of the movie.

gandalf26 06-05-20 05:58 PM

I've always intended to watch the Donner cut but haven't yet, I think it would be a tough watch as I'm such a big fan of 1 and 2, growing up with them.

It's crazy that Donner actually wanted the same time travel resolution for 2 though, like what was he thinking?

Captain Steel 06-05-20 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by gandalf26 (Post 2097356)
I've always intended to watch the Donner cut but haven't yet, I think it would be a tough watch as I'm such a big fan of 1 and 2, growing up with them.

It's crazy that Donner actually wanted the same time travel resolution for 2 though, like what was he thinking?
He didn't intend to use it twice... he had a different ending in mind for the first movie (I don't remember what that was - I think they explain it at the begging of the Donner cut of #II).

But then he was going to use time travel to make sure Lois had never figured out Clark was Superman at the end of II.

Both features were filmed simultaneously, and (I'm not sure about this, but...) when Donner was thrown off the film by the Producers, Richard Lester came in and placed Donner's time-travel ending as the conclusion for the first movie... and then came up with the Super-Kiss (ugh!) as the way to solve the problem of Lois knowing Superman's secret identity.

gandalf26 06-05-20 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Steel (Post 2097364)
He didn't intend to use it twice... he had a different ending in mind for the first movie (I don't remember what that was - I think they explain it at the begging of the Donner cut of #II).

But then he was going to use time travel to make sure Lois had never figured out Clark was Superman at the end of II.

Both features were filmed simultaneously, and (I'm not sure about this, but...) when Donner was thrown off the film by the Producers, Richard Lester came in and placed Donner's time-travel ending as the conclusion for the first movie... and then came up with the Super-Kiss (ugh!) as the way to solve the problem of Lois knowing Superman's secret identity.
I didn't know that, wonder what the conclusion to the first film was supposed to be then?

Captain Steel 06-05-20 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by gandalf26 (Post 2097370)
I didn't know that, wonder what the conclusion to the first film was supposed to be then?
It's been so long... but I think Donner was going to have Superman intercept the nuclear bombs Lex launches in Superman and hurl them into space (as he did with the one headed for Hackensack in the first movie).

I don't remember if Donner was going to have Superman intercept them both and redirect them to space or just the one as remained in the first movie?

(That's the part I'm not sure about - would've been a pretty anti-climactic ending if Superman just prevented the explosion in California without all his heroics to save people from the bomb... perhaps Donner wanted to keep all that, but just not have the part with Lois dying - and Superman having to turn back time to save her? I think that may have been the key. So no Lois dying or time travel to save her in the first movie per Donner, just Superman saving California from the bomb that exploded.)

At the beginning of the Donner cut (II) it's one of the bombs from the first movie that explodes in space and frees the Kryptonian criminals.

In the Lester cut, it's a bomb on the elevator of the Eiffel Tower that Superman throws into space which explodes and frees the Kryptonian criminals.

rambond 11-26-20 10:13 AM

Re: Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut vs. the original
 
https://screenrant.com/silliest-mome...-fly-dceu/amp/
Something for @CaptainSteel to share his opinion

John W Constantine 11-26-20 03:43 PM

Re: Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut vs. the original
 
I'll take Dick.


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