Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker
 

Rumours surfaced...


Abrams is apparently pencilled in to return as director for Ep IX. Rian Johnson has been confirmed as the director for Ep VIII in 2017... some sources say Johnson will direct IX, but it's really all cloak and dagger again right now but early footage of Episode VII has been met with such appraisal that Disney are negotiating for Abrams' return.


Also, IMDb and Wiki, plus others, have Episode IX down for a 2019 release.

That's pretty short release span - that'll be 3 films in just 4 years (not even counting the spin-off film they're making).

Doesn't bode well for me when they start cranking out this many films in such a short timespan.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

I'd feel that way if it were the same director, but since they're alternating and presumably sharing scripts, their production schedules can overlap significantly.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

I really like Abrams. I loved Super 8, and am excited to see a new, fresh face taking over this franchise. With Disney's money behind it, I doubt it'll be a let down!

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Colin Trevorrow has been officially officialised as the director of Ep 9...

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Is Abrams going to have a time-traveling, old Luke meet young Luke, have his home world of Tatooine destroyed, and say that this creates a splinter continuity that changes, yet coexists with everything we ever knew and loved about Star Wars?

"Luke, I am NOT your father... ever since your temporal counterpart came back in time and created a splinter timeline that ret-conned all reality. Obi Wan Kanobi... HE was your father... and Han Solo is your brother... you are not related to Leia in any way... so it's okay to kiss her again... if you want."
-Darth Vader

Would be cool if he added a Delorean and time travel. :p

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

https://www.google.ca/amp/variety.co...202548088/amp/

Trevorrow is out.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Call Matt Reeves Call Matt Reeves Call Matt Reeves Call Matt Reeves Call Matt Reeves

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

"Differences between Trevorrow and the studio executives"


Basically Disney's suits aren't letting directors make films. Again. Like every other studio in the world.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Or they saw The Book of Henry. Both equally believable circumstances.

Hey, Disney, I hear David Lynch is back in town...

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Yes, there will be another Star Wars Movie.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

I say wait and see what Rain Johnson does with 8 If its really good let him finish the franchise but let him have all the time he wants and dont worry if there is not a star wars film every year. And if Rain Johnson cants do it. JJ should come back and finish what he started with this trilogy.

I hear a lot of people saying either Del Toro or Patty Jenkins (just because of Wonder Woman I guess) but let's go really unconventional; Cary Fukunaga.

I think they will get Patty Jenkins for the new Star Wars movie.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

I imagine she'd be too tied up with the next Wonder Woman movie, especially if they still want to move ahead with their 2019 release date.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Thank God he gone. If Jurassic World was anything to go by it would have been a pile of shite.

Patty Jenkins makes more since for a stand alone movie maybe for the long rumored Young Princess Leia or Ahsoka movies. When i mean leia there is a rumor that they wanna do a Young Luke and Leia movies that shows there lives up until before Rogue One.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Get Uwe Boll!

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

he retired

DAMN! HE WAS SO GOOD!

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

he was the last jedi

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

JJ is back.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Good.
JJ can do it and he's already dealt with Disney's suits and they trust him too.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

It was the safest bet. Rian would'a been better but I guess I can't blame him for wanting a break.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Yup, J.J. is back


Boring choice?

Nah. Some people might think so, like Saunch said it was the safest bet...
JJ also did a proper job on Force Awakens, so if anything, Episode 9 will be just as solid.
It may even make it feel like a full circle too if 9 has a similar vibe to 7 after what is seemingly a darker vision with Episode 8.


But, let's face it... who else is there?
And especially who else is there that would work under Disney's dictatorship?
Disney are simply a load of accountants, who meddle in departments they know little about. Seems a lot of studios are the same these days.
Look at what happened to Suicide Squad when the glorified accountants decided to put their hand to editing.


JJ has at least been there before and knows how Disney works, and Disney's suits to an extent actually trust him... and JJ has en eye for the old-style Spielberg-esque way of filmmaking.


I said from the start when Episode 7 was announced that they should get JJ on board, and I cheered when they did. I'm glad he's back tbh.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

I guess it's about what the series deserves at this point.

Star Wars Episode 9: Return of the Star-Killer
An original and imaginative screenplay by Jar Jar Abrams

Begins with Rey and Chewy rescuing Poe from Boba Fett (who had escaped the sarlac and became the leader of a gangster organization) on Jakku. Rey returns to planet Ahch-To (gesundheit) to finish her training with Luke, but Luke reveals that her training is already complete and she must confront Kylo Ren, who is actually her brother. Luke tells her that the "Jedi must end" because they are just as dogmatic as the Sith and that she must "find balance within herself". Luke introduces her to the porgs (who look like puffins) and the chief porg, Chirp-Too. Luke also reveals that the First Order has arrived on the planet and he believes they intend on transforming it into the next Star Killer base. Luke says "farewell," then vanishes, his grey cowel falling to the floor.

yada yada

When Finn and the others arrive at Ahch-To (God bless you), they discover the planet and the Empire base (I'm sorry, First Order base) has been surrounded by a shield projected by a generator on the surface. In the process of landing, they are shot down by a First Order sentry. Soon they are captured by porgs, but Ren and Chirp-Too set them free and the porgs make Finn and the others allies.

yada yada

While Rey goes after Kylo Ren, Finn and the others attack the shield generator. Rey surrunders to the First Order and ends up in a light saber duel with Kylo Ren in front of Snoke, who is intent on bringing her to the dark side. Ren disarms her of her lightsaber, but when Snoke orders him to kill her, he refuses. Snoke and Ren then battle. The two in black mortally wound each other. Suddenly the First Order base begins to collapse. Knowing that the Rebels (correction: Resistance) have destroyed the shield and have blown up the base's reactor, Rey tries to help her brother escape, but he dies in the process.

The Resistance and the porgs dance the night away.

Can't wait.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Why are so many people hating JJ to return to the directors chair. I say wait and see episode 8 before making Johnson the better director. Also lets be clear episode 9 likely is not the last episodic installment of Star Wars. I mean Rey just got started using the force. So i say Episode 12 will likely be the series true end other then the stand alone films

Bruh, you already made a dozen pages worth of "Star Wars is the same" posts in that one thread. You don't need to waste time on these kinds of unnecessarily long jokes that make the exact same point you and many other people have been making for almost two years now.

We can extrapolate based on what both directors have done so far so it's easy to presume that the director of Looper is capable of making a better sci-fi movie than the director of Star Trek Into Darkness.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

What can you do Johnson doesnt wanna do two films this large. Im very sure there are smaller projects Johnson wants to do and If episode 8 is great that we could get him back for a stand alone movie or maybe episode 10. JJ was likely given option to do 9 like Johnson only JJ maybe have been the second choice. But I personally think best outcome could have been Johnson writes episode 9 and JJ directs still. It would maybe be best outcome.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Probably, I was just answering the question about why people didn't like the prospect of Abrams returning and might prefer Johnson even without having seeing Last Jedi. At this rate, it doesn't matter who directs it since the various mix-ups with this film and the Han Solo one suggest that this is more in the hands of producers and writers than the directors themselves (and Abrams himself is involved with writing and producing so bringing him back is just killing two birds with one stone).

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

I really liked Force Awakens, so I am excited to see J. J. Abrams return (in spite of hating Star Trek: Into Darkness, the other sequel he's done). I haven't seen Jurassic World, but I lost confidence when Treverrow was announced due to word of mouth about it.

Loved Brick by Johnson and hope that 8 can deliver, but I do have my doubts (didn't like The Brothers Bloom myself, and didn't watch Looper as a result).

I was disappointed when I heard Abrams was attached to this project, considering how badly he messed-up Episode 7. The point of my parody was to show how easy it is to write these stories ... I whipped that up in about 5 minutes. Force Awakens was a derivative, hollow piece of garbage which showed no imagination or originality. It was also one of the most disappointing movies of the century, since fans (like myself) had waited over 30 years for a sequel.

The only thing about Last Jedi that's piqued my interest is the part in the trailer when Luke says "The Jedi must end". I'll probably catch Last Jedi in the cheap theatre after it's been out for several months.

Everybody, be sure to load up with merchandise before the movie comes out, so that you've bought into the movie even before you've seen it.
http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/ne...orcelink01.JPG

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

All I'm saying is that, for someone who apparently claims to hate hollow and derivative content, you certainly seem to like making the same joke over and over again.

i don t understand how would u want the force awakens to be? i loved it and i think they did great work with the story, it was very emotional aswell.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

it seems there s a shocking revelation that darth sidious could still be alive.
but how coulf anyone survive that fall and explosion in the battle of endor??!!
here s the link
https://www.express.co.uk/entertainm...tlefront-2/amp

Well, since you're such a fan of Force Awakens, I knew you'd appreciate an encore.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

The thing about encores is that you're only supposed to do them once.

In a recent interview with the BBC, alongside composer Michael Giacchino, Abrams said, “Well, it’s certainly something that I’m aware of now working on ‘Episode IX’ — coming back into this world after having done ‘Episode VII.’ I feel like we need to approach this with the same excitement that we had when we were kids, loving what these movies were.”
https://media1.tenor.com/images/b1f7...itemid=5228178

Abrams added, “At the same time, we have to take them places that they haven’t gone, and that’s sort of our responsibility. It’s a strange thing – Michael’s worked on things like ‘Planet of the Apes’ and ‘Star Trek’ and ‘Star Wars,’ and these are the things of dreams. Yet we can’t just revel in that; we have to go elsewhere.”
https://media1.tenor.com/images/c86c...itemid=5752975

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Keri Russell maybe joins the cast?

https://variety.com/2018/film/news/s...ll-1202861343/

Cue all the usual responses and questions.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Hmmm.


Sadly, they seem to have lost the knack of casting unknowns for a series of movies that's trying to remove itself from the prequels.

The prequels were packed with known faces... but Star Wars, apart from Guinness and Cushing, the cast were unknown.
2 big names... over 3 movies.


Nobody had heard of Hamill, Fisher, Ford, Dee Williams, Daniels or Baker before Star Wars arrived.


Now it seems a case of "get as many big names in as possible so they can carry the film"
I think this was what hampered The Last Jedi.
Del Toro, Dern, Christie, Gleason, Serkis... they even had big names in small roles.


Now they're adding more heard-of actors and actresses.


I'm left wondering if Stallone, Li, Lundgren, Couture, Crews, Hemsworth, Banderas, Statham, Willis, Snipes, Grammer, Van Damme, Gibson and Schwarzenegger will appear as well?

I think that’s stretching it. The primary cast, the focus of the trilogy, Ridley, Driver, Boyega and even Oscar Isaacs are best known for their respective characters here. Id be surprised if there’s a significant number of us that we’re looking forward to a Llewyn Davis/Al Cody reunion in TFA.

Dern and Del Toro, being the better known entities like Guinness and Cushing were slotted in aptly sized roles.

If not as Hux, Domhnall is still best known as Brendan’s son. Christie and Serkis are never actually seen in the flesh (well, unless you count that eyeball peak.)

Russell isn’t going draw crowds on a name alone, despite how good The Americans might be.

Casting was way down the list of problems for TLJ. Apart from the character and casting of Rose I don't attribute any of the problems with TLJ to do with the cast at all.

I think Domhnall Gleason has grown out of his father's shadow to be fair and is now known as a top actor in his own right. Just a shame he is contractually obliged to play a ridiculous buffoon in these films, in fact that's s bit unfair on TFA because General Hux wasn't anywhere near as insufferable in that one.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

I doubt we are getting Mara Jade unless she will show up in a another trilogy just no Lukes wife but another female Jedi. Or Mara is just a character name that has nothing to do with Mara Jade or a Jedi. My feeling is the new characters will be new resistence or new rebellion members. In Reys case i doubt she should have students since she was never trained by anyone. Now id be ok if a Jedi from Lukes academy did survive and has his own. I just dont think Russell who is rumored to be named Mara is gonna be a big character.

Apparently Lando (bill dee Williams) will be in episode 9. Will be interesting to see how they kill off this beloved character.

This series is such trash now I would get real pleasure from watching it and Disney fail. Just being honest :)

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

I guess i don t care anymore, disney just bought fox, and.my cousin is trying to tie himself.down to another project so that he doesn t lose his job immediately, and i feel bad for this franchise as it is being turned into a teenage marketing saga

That's whats happening isn't it, Solo makes a loss or barely scrapes even which is worse than I thought possible. Episode 9 could be just as bad.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

so a year and a half of this kind of thing huh

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Hopefully. I feel episode 9 will do alright numbers wise. Even if the movie is extremely poor which I’m confident it will be. I just think they’ll con enough of the public and really work on the hype machine - moreso than the actual movie. But here’s hoping that it’s a huge fail in terms of box office. That would make my heart smile.

You know you are free to not click on Star Wars threads if the criticism is such a problem for you.

At the moment Star Wars is looking like the biggest **** up in movie history so that's gonna warrant a bit of discussion from time to time, especially on a forum, you know dedicated to movie discussion.

They won't make anymore $$$ until they get rid of *****, state Rian Johnston isn't getting his own trilogy and stop with all the SJW bull****. Rian Johnson continues to outright insult fans on his twitter, clearly a monumental ego.

Maybe we should practice ignoring. Iro ignores us, we ignore him but there’s no ignoring how terrible the franchise is as of now. What a disgrace.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

New Star Wars = Amazing


Youuuuuuuu haters!

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Ohhh you :)))))))

Yeah, and you're free to drop out if the actual movies are such a problem that the best discussion you can generate for the next year-and-a-half is repeatedly throwing out insults and hoping the next movie (which, as noted, doesn't come out for a year-and-a-half) fails.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

There isn't much to discuss in terms of actual S(J)W movies obviously. However the fallout within Disney and Lucasfilm given the current situation is very interesting.

The only reason you drop into these threads is to insult me for complaining about SW, you can't actually defend what's happening so you insult fans, a bit like Rian Johnson.

I don't need to hope episode 9 will fail, it already has. My hope is that whatever they do after that is better.

Dern didn't bother me, but Del Toro was such a distraction that it took me out of the film. So far with TFA and TLJ, the only one to bother me was Del Toro.

Is it really that interesting or do you just want an excuse to make posts so angry they have to be edited by Yoda?

Most (if not all) of the people in this thread are fans of Star Wars and most of them manage to avoid resorting to empty name-calling and repetitive complaints so I don't actually bother them and vice versa. There are a lot of different types of Star Wars fan and the kind that draw Johnson's ire do so for very good (or should I say very bad) reasons.

As for Episode IX, consider that the reason I'm not "defending" it is because at this stage we know barely anything about it and can only make the loosest of guesses as to how it'll turn out (good or bad). If your attitude towards Episode IX is that it's already failed, then how much hope do you really have that any subsequent movies are going to be better?

The Last Jedi is the best star wars movie :D

also Im excited for Ep. 9, and fascinated to see JJ Abrams do something he's almost never done before: finish a story.

best star wars movie... just lol

Iro stop making alts!!

In fact, I'd say it and Empire are the only truly great star wars films (though, for what it's worth, all i of the one's I've seen—yet to see Solo—are at the very least pretty good films).

I'm a real person, thank you very much :D

But yeah, it's the best star wars film, and frankly it's not close, in my opinion.

Also Rose Tico is a fantastic character, Holdo was great, The Canto Bight sequence is essential and makes the entire series better in like 12 different ways, Luke's arc is magnificent, actually, every character's arc is fantastic for that matter, and it's got the most visually impressive moment in any star wars film (ramming at lightspeed). I watched the film again last night, and I was just enamored with it all over again (I've now seen it 4 times).

Watch it again, but with an open mind. Engage with the movie on its own terms. It does what it does very well, even if what it does wasn't maybe what some fans had wanted (I'd argue what it does is like, orders of magnitude more interesting than what those fans wanted, for what it's worth). Maybe the film will surprise you on rewatch.

I know I may not get an answer, but what is so "SJW" about Star Wars that has you so up in arms? I'm not going to assume anything about you, since I don't know you, but I don't understand what that even means.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

How bout dem you mother jokes lol. They probably hold up to repeat viewings too am I rite???

Star Wars is a silly action adventure franchise made to appeal to children (which is not a slight, there are some incredible works of art that come out of children's media), it's always had silly one-liners. There is exactly one 'your mother' joke, not jokes, and yes, it, like many other lines in the films, is very silly. Remember, this is the franchise that immortalized the phrase 'stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking, nerf-herder'. Not exactly the bastion of clever, adult-aimed humor.

Also Last Jedi contains my two favorite jokes in the franchise. The 'ship is actually an iron' visual gag is clever (also using camera work to tell a joke rather than dialogue actually requires, like, thought and care with the visual design, which is really cool!). The other one is the 'That's the force!" joke. Not only did I laugh, but it's humor that reveals character. We learn that, while we know Rey is very powerful, she doesn't understand that power, she's still a naive young adult who has a lot to learn as she, *ahem* takes her first steps into a larger world. It also aligns well with the fact that Luke learned from Yoda, another teacher who had a sense of humor.

Sure, a lot of the humor is silly, but it's supposed to be, because that's how Star Wars has always been, and like Star Wars films before it, even the silly jokes sometimes have a larger narrative purpose or at the very least thought and intention behind them.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Listen you like the film that’s great - I despise it. I definitely don’t agree that Star Wars is generally silly or catered to just children - especially the originals. It’s been described as a space melodrama, which I’d agree with and has it’s serious moments.

You can justify the comedy elements. Good points, credit to you and your arguments. To me though that humour makes me cringe and borders on making me physically ill lol.

Sounds like the argument of a stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf-herder tbh. :p

In seriousness though, silly and serious aren't mutually exclusive. The original trilogy has a lot of silly stuff, and a lot of serious stuff, because it's a fun adventure. Last Jedi has a lot of silly stuff, and a lot of serious stuff (hell I'd argue it takes the universe more seriously on a thematic level than any film previous).

And the fact that it's aimed for kids is just that, a fact. George Lucas described it as such. Again, children's media can also be serious and have artistic merit, there's no shame in it. Pixar is one of the most consistent production company's in the industry right now for critically acclaimed films, and all of their movies are animated, family friendly films. My favorite TV show of all time is a cartoon called Avatar: The Last Airbender, which is a kids show made on Nickelodeon that has a lot of silly comic relief and also is maybe one of the best narratives about imperialism and war that I've ever seen.

Being kid friendly and silly doesn't mean it can't also be mature and appeal to adults. You can do both. In fact, I'd argue that real maturity leaves room for the ability to laugh at yourself a bit and just enjoy the thing. Self-seriousness to an extreme degree is how we get juvenile half-baked films like Batman v Superman: joyless, soulless, and grim-dark just for the sake of it.

You're allowed to dislike the film, and its humor, but to act like Star Wars isn't designed to be kid-friendly and fun and sometimes silly, is just not correct. I'm also just curious as to why the silly stuff in Last Jedi bugs you so much but the silly stuff in Empire doesn't?

Lol the first few line made me laugh. That’s humour! It was timed well. The rest...I’ll respond to another time. I just can’t right now. Respect and may the force be with you.

I would say two things have me majorly up in arms.

1) Lucasfilm/RJ/Media have basically labelled those who don't like TLJ as not liking it for political reasons, "manbabies", "don't like strong women", "rascist alt rights who don't like black leads/strong women/ethnic minorities". They are hiding behind these falsehoods when in fact people of all kinds of diverse backgrounds universally dislike TLJ for its nonsensical story.


2) SJW issues are creeping into Star Wars and they add nothing to the plot and basically distract you from what should be some fun escapism for all the family. People don't want to take their kids to see Solo when you have one of the writers banging the "Lando is a pansexual" drum.


One of the comments below puts it quite well, "shame you forget to make a decent story".


In the Last Jedi we have "dumb flyboy" Po being lorded over by Admiral Holdo and kept in the dark for no apparent reason other than to seemingly have a strong female be in charge and put "the man" in his place. The character Rose played by an Asian actress seems to be more diversity box ticking. Luke Skywalker turned in to a joke, is it cause he's a powerful white male :) who knows?


The focus seems to be in the wrong place, just concentrate your efforts on good stories, if those stories happen to have 3 strong transsexual muslim leads then who cares as long as it makes sense to the story.

Is it so terrible to name call those that have presided over the destruction of my favourite movie franchise?

Of course there are an extreme minority out there and no one condones that, poor Kelly Marie Tran forced off social media by awful bullies. It's not any actor/actresses fault that they played a hated character in a hated movie with a terrible story.

Johnson with his monumental ego though is trying to have us believe that the majority of haters are like this. He refuses to eat humble pie and apologise for what is the most hated SW movie. All he has to say is "hey guys I tried to do something different and clearly you guys don't like it, I'm sorry we will try to do better", but no "it's wow what a bunch of manbabies and racists, my film is amazing". Lucasfilm have and will continue to be punished severely for this attitude.


I think its going to be incredibly difficult for JJ to pick up the ashes of his original story outline and make some sort of coherent continuation/ending. Also rumours are that this wont be a trilogy, just another episode.

My attitude is that I wont see it along with millions of others unless;

-KK fired
-Rian Johnston publicly admonished by Disney/Lucasfilm for his behaviour and stripped of his trilogy.
-SJW agendas are gone from these movies.
-Some sort of public acknowledgement that fans are not happy and they will strive to do better.


I'm hopeful for great stuff from Disney SW as I've said many times but I don't think that will start with Episode 9. Even if the film is good in a 8/10 sort of way people are so angry that they will stay away.

.

Leaving aside whether or not TLJ even counts as nonsensical (and there are enough arguments that it isn't), it doesn't help when there's enough overlap between the "nonsense" haters and the "bigot" haters (and of their respective complaints) that it's hardly worth making the distinction.

Or it's a matter of Star Wars evolving to fit the times and being more direct in reflecting its overall progressive/anti-fascist sentiments than the vague-enough-to-seem-generic originals. Positing that it's meant to be "fun escapism" and nothing else sounds like an ideological cop-out more than anything else (speaking of ideological cop-outs, the fact that the writer calls Lando pansexual only to not bother explicitly indicating that in the film proper is bad because it just sounds like an empty promise that's more likely to anger your average "SJW" than be appreciated by them).

More of the same complaints that have been countered again and again. He lost a squad of bombers and gives her no reason to trust him. Complaining about "diversity box ticking" makes it really difficult to prove that you're not like the racist/sexist haters. Treating the film's attempts to examine and develop Luke as something more than yet another archetypal chosen one hero as a "joke". We already did this for dozens of pages.

That being said, you're not going to get much argument from me about Solo in particular. Its attempts at keeping up the sociopolitical commentary of the previous Disney installments is way more ham-fisted and problematic (and only one of its many problems).

If it means that your post now ends in "Last edited by Yoda", then yeah, chances are you may have crossed a line there.

Why should he apologise? It makes sense for Joel Schumacher to apologise for something as universally-despised as Batman and Robin, but Last Jedi isn't hated nearly as much - the response has been (and still is) more positive than negative and not without fair reason. As a result, it's very easy to think of the people who think that they are entitled to apologies for films that did not please them personally as "manbabies".

F*ck the ashes, then - and f*ck the rumours while we're at it.

Then you'll never see it.

Sounds like those people need to watch some movies that go out of their way to promote the virtue of not giving in to one's anger.

People are simply tired of SJWs and don't want to be bashed over the head with it in movies, especially not beloved franchises.


I crossed a forum rule and apologised to Yoda for it, whether I crossed a line is debateable.



Do you have evidence to back up this claim that the response to TLJ has been more positive than negative?

Again covering old ground but somewhere like RT only 46% of the audience like it, that's about 200'000 user reviews. about 30,000 less scores than TFA which indicates there weren't bots giving it loads of negative scores.

You even have RT coming out saying "No are audience scores haven't been tampered with".https://theplaylist.net/rotten-tomat...jedi-20171222/

If you can point to somewhere that gives TLJ a positive score in terms of high numbers (thousands) of user rating I would be happy to look at that.

So when you cause that much damage to the franchise as Rian has, and those supposed to be overseeing him YES you could have a little humility about it. Not sure if name calling and condescension against legitimate complaints has ever worked out well in business.



I will out of curiosity but not in a way that gives them any £££.

Or they don't like the reminder that people other than white guys like the franchise and get to be the heroes for a change.

If you don't want to get lumped in with the sexist haters then maybe don't call the woman in charge "****". There's a correlation there that you should probably be aware of.

If that's all it takes, then IMDb still has it at a weighted average of 7.3/10 based off approximately 400,000 ratings (79.6% of which rate it at least a 6). Like I said before, people liked it more often than not (and I compared it against the genuinely widespread hatred of Batman and Robin to really put it into perspective). It's not like you're questioning how legitimate these complaints are anyway.

Planning a holiday?

You sound just like Rian Johnson. Virtually no one was complaining about Rey or Finn back in the Force Awakens. Are you saying everyone just became rascist/sexist in between? It's a huge copout and you know it.


Lump me in with whoever you want but it wont make it true.


Can't speak for the IMDB score, but Meta and RT have the audience giving it a 45-46% score. The $$$ numbers don't lie anyway, $2 billion for TFA, only $1.3 for TLJ, followed by a desperate $300m something for Solo. How bad will Ep 9 be? We can only guess.


Compare that to Avengers, $1.5 billion for first one, Age of Ultron much less well received but it still did $1.4 very little difference, now doing great things with Infinity War $2 billion.



.

But not literally no one. As with TLJ, a vocal minority blew things out of proportion (did you completely miss out on the "Rey is a Mary Sue" discourse or what) and tried staging their own boycotts, then tried again when Rogue One did the same "heroes are women and/or people of colour" thing that continued and escalated with TLJ. What I'm saying is that there were always racist/sexist people who hated new Star Wars and they've only gotten worse with the passage of time and general deterioration of online discourse. If you've somehow missed all that in favour of focusing on SJWs or Johnson or whoever else, ask yourself why.

Keep telling yourself that.

You asked for a user score that indicated a positive response, I gave you one. Box-office gross only matters so much in determining a film's quality or even popularity anyway. TFA was always going to be so huge that a follow-up would struggle to match its gross and $1.3b is hardly indicative of a franchise-ruining flop (much less the $300m from Solo).

lol @ people complaining about 'SJW' politics in a film franchise about violent, antifascist uprising against an authoritarian fascist government with heavy visual influences for the villains from nazi propaganda films that was heavily inspired by the original creators attitudes toward (or I guess more accurately, against) the Vietnam War.

Star Wars is and has always been deeply political (and more specifically very left-wing politically).

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

So tired of people talking about Box Office its like its the only thing that matters in todays films. I am ok with films making much less money but still breaking even but being a good movie means more to be then box office. Look at Empire and Return of The Jedi while both made much less money most would agree that they are better then A New Hope. While they are still big films they still didnt make no where near Phantom Menace money. Which is the real measuring stick because new star wars has lot more inflation. While Solo flopped I still value it as good film and probably better then episode 7 and 8. Its pretty clear the Stand Alone films were meant for fans while the New Episode were to push whatever agenda Kennedy wanted with the female movement.


Now its is clear that Star Wars always had strong female characters. Rey was very disliked because apparently Jedi cant have strong female jedi other then in cartoons with Ahsoka

I personally disliked the character because I felt the character was too strong, too soon, and too fast, relative to what I've experienced with the history of the franchise. I seriously doubt that would change if she were a he. Or an asexual frog lizard.

OK cool. She has an inexplicable mega-grasp of the force without experience or training. Prequels told us it's Midichlorians anyway, and we're told through Snoke that because of Kylo Ren's growth in the dark side that he expected a stir from the light to bring balance. My issue there isn't that she is a she; it is that if Ren is so powerful (private training under Luke for some period of time and one-on-one mentorship by Supreme Leader, Snoke), then how is he bested by anyone really. Especially by one with no training? Granted, perhaps she is then super-saiyan blue powerful in the force (though she never seemed to demonstrate any force awareness before things started happening to her, but eh.. that's a minor thing). Even still, she had absolutely no experience with a light saber. Yes, Luke channeled the force to deflect the practice droid in ANH and to "reach out" when firing his proton torpedoes into the lone, thermal exhaust port. But again, he had Ben's guidance to help clear his mind and to direct him. Rey did not. Did she?

I just can't see the force providing her with sith apprentice level combat techniques to stand her own against Ren. Or worse (IMO), against multiple "elite" praetorian guards at once. I mean, I REALLY hate to be that guy, but that s***'s mechanical. :D

My problem isn't gender. I'm inclined to believe that's not the problem of others either, though it is convenient to point at. IMO.

ugh. This movie has really pushed me to the dark side =\

It's worth noting that Kylo was mortally wounded by a blaster blast from a gun which took down like 4 people in one shot earlier in TFA, and that he was emotional compromised after killing his father, an action which, to quote Snoke, "split him to the bone" emotionally and morally. That was literally Kylo Ren on his absolute worst day against Rey, one of the most naturally gifted force users in the galaxy at that point in time (which to be fair, the main character of the franchise has pretty much always been 'one of the most powerful force users at the time' so this is no inconsistent with the rest of the series).

It's not so much that she has a great grasp on her powers, she doesn't, she does like 2 things with the force the entire time, which is a mind trick (something the movies never claim to be particularly difficult, especially since stormtroopers that don't break their indoctrination are generally easy to manipulate), and she grabs the lightsaber from Kylo, which is mildly impressive but again, Kylo is injured, and not expecting any resistance from her.

The reason she never exhibited force powers before (though this is debatable, she had recurring force visions she perceived as dreams of Luke's Island and the original jedi texts and stuff) is because, when thrust into this larger world, something *******awakened******* inside her, i.e. the reason the movie is the title that it is. It was always there, lying dormant, but it awakened when it was called upon in a time of crisis.

Also, it's very possible that Rey is stronger than Luke was at this point. That isn't a flaw, that's just like, a creative choice for the needs of the narrative and the themes. I'm more interested in films having meaningful things to say and executing on those ideas in their craft, narrative, etc. than I am in them being perfectly consistent logic puzzles, plot-wise. All films have inconsistencies in their logic and plot (though not nearly as much as people think, like TFA and especially TLJ are far more consistent both internally and to the rest of the series than people give them credit for and a lot of the confusion just comes from blatant misinterpretation sometimes), it's unavoidable, but as long as its in service to meaningful art, I don't really care that much.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Hey. I'm glad you enjoyed it then.

Ok Braeden – As to your points. First in terms of our aim for this discussion. You’ve seen the film multiple times and clearly love it. I’m the opposite. I assume we both won’t be changing our minds, which is ok. It’s a subjective experience. I’m just going to do my best answering your points as politely as possible, only expressing an opinion.
You did initially say star wars is a silly action adventure franchise. I didn’t agree but will agree that these are not mutually exclusive. But to what extent are you talking about in terms of silliness. On the extreme scale we have ‘scary movie 2000’ silliness, then maybe Deadpool and maybe fast and the furious edging towards that middle ground – 50 silliness 50 seriousness.

Personally I think the original trilogy is more serious then silly and more serious then those examples.
Of course you have to keep in mind science fiction (emphasis on the fiction) and how suspension of disbelief is managed. But the story and characters; the most important elements of a film (imo), are overly dramatic yes, but overly silly, no. But lets not bring Jar Jar into this or ewoks. Lol!

I didn’t think it was catered to JUST children as I did say. You’ve acknowledged that it can appeal to more than children. Sounds like we are more or less in agreement but maybe are battling which one is foremost. I’d maybe go the middle ground and say adolescent. It would be hard to really pinpoint. First you have the film makers intention then really how the end product turned out. The burning skeletons of Luke’s Uncle and Aunt and the close up of the burning skull and how the eye falls out of the skull and rolls towards Luke looking at him directly. That was sad, serious and even for the 70’s maybe a bit full on for young children (especially when the eye pops out). But if I’m going to be fair, that’s only one example. The rest of the film I’d say is suitable for children but of course as suitable for adolescents and adults.
Now I never said Star wars wasn’t designed to be kid friendly or fun or sometimes silly. Please don’t take my words out of context. I feel like this mix, that worked in the originals doesn’t work in new trilogy. Rather than me trying to explain why I don’t like the film I’ve found a youtube breakdown. I agree with what’s said. Up to you if you’d like to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ECwhB21Pnk
If it’s unfair that I’ve just posted a youtube video, that’s fair enough, don’t oblige me. I would be a little annoyed if I had to sit through a 20 min long video ***** canning a movie I love haha. But if you are interested its here.


End of the day though. We can scrap together arguments. Justifying plot holes, exposing plots holes and logic back and forth which is what some posters seem to be doing. I’m sure I’m guilty of it but really its just prolonging the argument. I won’t fight to change your mind on it – if that’s happens, great, you will be welcomed to the dark side.

Thanks for engaging with what I have to say in good faith at the very least. I've read through it and I do think that a lot of it comes down to a combination of 'taste' and 'what we want to get out of a new star wars film'. I may revisit that video another time this last bit of what you said interested me more, and my response is less so pointed at you, and more just, my thoughts on the general state of discourse around The Last Jedi. So here's that:

I guess this is at the very core of what bugs me so much about the conversation surrounding the film and those who dislike it so much. I honestly don't care, even a little bit, about logic-ing my way through the narrative of a film. I'm capable of it, and I think that TLJ is as internally consistent as any of the star wars films get, but it doesn't really matter to me all that much. Films are not logic puzzles, made to be figured out to understand a perfectly clear picture of the things that happen in the movie. Films are works of art designed to communicate ideas and evoke emotional responses.

Everyone gets so bogged down in plot minutiae and whether or not the jokes were to their liking and we never actually engage with the film on its own terms. Let's talk about the themes of the film, and how they use character arcs and filmmaking techniques to communicate them. I don't particularly care who Snoke is, or whether or not Rey's force powers are perfectly consistent with that of the rest of the series. These things are so superfluous in the context of talking about the quality of a film, at least to me. This sh*t, frankly, doesn't matter to me so long as it is consistent enough to not break my suspension of disbelief and is used in service of artistic ideas worth engaging with.

I'd much rather talk about what Star Wars: The Last Jedi is actually about, what it has to say, and how it says those things, than squabbling over what amounts to information to fill up a wookieepedia article. It's impossible to even have this conversation, so long as we keep going back and forth on whether or not Rey is a Mary Sue, or the humor was fun, or if Holdo not telling her plans to Poe made sense. I have answers to all of these questions (she's not, it was, and it does, to be clear), and justifications that are supported by the text of the film to back up those answers, but the fact that I do think they work isn't why I think the movie works. I think the movie works because I think it uses the craft of filmmaking to tell an engaging (and to my mind very entertaining) story with incredibly well-realized characters that have arcs that build to very well-communicated and interesting themes. The rest of that stuff is just like, a nice bonus.

To put it simply, I don't think Last Jedi has any more or less plot holes than any other Star Wars film. I just don't really care that much about plot holes, because every single movie that has ever been made ever that has a coherent plot, has plot holes and contrivances to allow the movie to work. As long as none of them completely break my immersion in the film, I'm fine. They don't matter to me, and I'll excuse them happily if its in service of an emotional experience that was fulfilling and thematically resonant.

Even putting aside some of the virulent bigotry put out by a small minority of the fans (though this is certainly an issue and hate-fueled harassment directed at minorities and women in fandom spaces is a problem that merits discussion for sure), the general state of Star Wars discourse is just so depressing to me, because we can't seem to actually engage with Star Wars as a series of films that have ideas worth discussing, but rather as like, sequences of portrayed events that either do or don't meet our standards for 'sufficiently star warsy, based on my position on what that means'

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

what in the f*ck kind of version of Star Wars has an eye popping out of a burnt human skull

Star Wars Episode 4.2: The Popping Of The Eyeball

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Lmao!!

Yes I was aware of complaints from a minority with TFA but clearly they were a minority then but are a majority now I guess we will have to disagree on that.

I wasn't aware of the term "Mary Sue" for TFA and didn't know what that meant, though obviously I heard plenty of complaints that Rey could do everything/beat Kylo Ren with no training. I always argued against those complaints.

You will get no argument from me that there are racists/sexists out there for sure but the disagreement is with the %, obv you and Rian/media think a large % of complaints are for those reasons when clearly it is an insignificant "tiny" vocal minority. There are media reports talking about it where they sight alt right pages that have.....40 followers. The vast vast majority of complaints are to do with the story, and the gut punch of what they did with Luke.



Damn I guess I became racist and sexist sometime in-between 2015-17 after loving Rey and Finn in TFA. Hate when that happens.




Why would Star Wars struggle when Marvel isn't though? They don't have that huge drop-off even when a film isn't as popular. Doing $2 billion for one then $1.3 is worrying when the first part was loved by most, because like I said 6 months ago people are so pissed off they've avoided the repeat viewings that TFA had, they aren't selling toys either, and the backlash has clearly continued into Solo, so much so that future spin offs appear to be on hold. For those that say the prequels followed this pattern, well they sucked hard so people didn't want to see them. The OT did aswell but back then sequels and trilogies weren't a thing back then.

They are building theme parks too that must be a worry for them because what fans are going to spend a lot of $$$ to go there when they wont even spend $10+ on Solo?

They are in a huge mess at the moment and that will continue for a couple of years till they sort their **** out.

@Larry

Here is another good one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPsRp7uUXUk

Like I said before:

That Sargon video you went on to post is a good example of that point where the line between legitimate criticisms and general right-wing bitterness towards The Feminists or whoever becomes incredibly blurry. It does go a long way towards explaining why certain aspects of this film draw more criticism than any of the ones before it (as noted, you could comb every film in the series for similar examples of "plot holes" - they even made an entire film based around answering the question of why the original Death Star has such a surprisingly exploitable weakness, after all). Ultimately, it's about asking what makes people make the complaints that they do and, by extension, what makes other people defend it in turn. Taking the example of Luke, I can understand how it is disappointing to see the character go from stalwart hero to embittered failure, but I also understand that this sense of disappointment is deliberate (as reflected through Rey's own reaction) and ultimately makes sense within the narrative and thematic text of the film/series at large. Meanwhile, to want Luke to remain the exact same character as he was 30 years prior and be the unambiguous hero sounds like it could (and likely would) tip over into hollow wish fulfillment and result in a lesser film (and this is reflected in so many of the suggestions I've seen about how certain fans would "fix" TLJ, like having Admiral Ackbar say "it's a trap" while being the one to do the lightspeed ram instead of Holdo).

Recognising that there is a problem is the first step is to solving it.

Trying to boll this all down to box-office and user ratings can miss the bigger picture, though - TFA was the big event that also worked to broaden its appeal so as to win over as many people (old fans and newcomers alike) as possible, which explained why it was both a huge hit while also drawing criticism for being conventional and derivative. I do question how much the backlash really affected Solo, which never really seemed like it was going to be a huge hit in the first place due to how redundant it seemed (and ultimately ended up being) and the reaction should definitely make them re-evaluate how they'll approach spin-offs in future. I think you can explain away the drop-off over time in each instance as the result of the first installments in each trilogy being such unprecedentedly huge events (one was quite simply one of the archetypal blockbusters while the other two had time to build up huge levels of anticipation) that any follow-ups couldn't help but look less impressive as a result. It's not like Empire was universally loved when it came out either - it took time for it to be considered not just a contender for the best in the franchise, but a serious entry in the best films ever made despite having a scene where a goblin beats up a robot with a stick. Which brings me back to my earlier point - another year-and-a-half of this, huh?

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Will check it out soon thank you.

Unseen footage of Carrie Fisher to be used in episode 9. Guess they are going the Paul Walker route.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainm...cid=spartanntp

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

gandalf, I'm wondering. How would you conduct Episode 9?

You don't even have to go in-detail. At the very least, you could just list bullet points on what you would to include in the film to make it better.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

I suspect the first thing he would do is create a new character: a wizard who leads the protagonists to their goal.

:D

Not sure I would want to touch it, even if I was the greatest writer/director in the world. Tainted goods, trying to write a continuation of the mess that was 8 would be no fun at all.

I have a fair idea of what I would have done if you could start back at episode 7 again, or even a new era, the galaxy is old and used enough that you wouldn't need to say whether it was past or future.

I would deffo be doing Darth Jar Jar, what is there to lose at this point :)

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Judging by your posts, certainly not your dignity.

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Handbags....

Re: Star Wars Episode IX (9)
 

Alternate realities? Or that it was all just a very detailed vision of Yoda's, while he was speaking with young Annie. Not our Yoda. I mean the CGI jumping jack.