Trump, Great President Or The Greatest President?
 

We need a new thread for four years of what is bound to be one of the most divisive presidencies of all time. Here it is. Let the discussion begin.

Re: Trump, Great President Or The Greatest President?
 

$#@%!

Re: Trump, Great President Or The Greatest President?
 

I actually don't know how divisive it'll be. If he goes back on a lot of the things he said during the campaign (a near certainty), he might end up being pretty anodyne in practice. Not that this'll stop less thoughtful people from reacting to the rhetoric as if it were policy.

That, of course, was the whole problem: either he's serious about that stuff, in which case he's dangerous, or he's not, in which case he's purely symbolic and won't necessarily do the things his supporters are ostensibly supporting him for. The upside of that for critics is that, well, he won't necessarily do the things his supporters are ostensibly supporting him for.

Re: Trump, Great President Or The Greatest President?
 

Nice unbiased thread title :D

Re: Trump, Great President Or The Greatest President?
 

His speech sounded slightly Keynesian when he talked about investment, I'm interested in hearing how he goes about that. He's always seemed slightly more middle ground on issues like that, healthcare too. But yeah, I think there's been an overreaction as to how much damage he could potentially do, people act as if he is free to do what he wants and that he will start WW3 tomorrow.

Yeah, this is the worst thing for any real conservative: which party is the free market party now? Most Republicans still are, but the fact that they have to fight their own nominee on this is maddening, and since he's the most visible, this really muddies the intellectual waters for less informed voters. Same thing happened when Hoover ran as a free market type, didn't govern like one, and then the wrong side got the blame when the Depression hit simply because his rhetoric didn't match his policies.

Democracy works, in the long run, if and when people can clearly evaluate which ideas are working, or not, and why. A Republican with Keynesian economic policies really messes up that process.

People were also acting like Bernie Sanders could change Americas infrastructure too just by being elected. :rolleyes: Alot of fear & hate was used in this campaign, Trump just used it best.

Nothing left to do now but just wait and see.

So, let's talk some people off the ledge. There are silver linings here for Never Trump conservatives, and maybe even a few for liberals (though fewer for them, I admit).

So, for Never Trump conservatives, here are some good things to take away from the election:

1. No more Clintons. No more Hillary, no more Bill, and no Chelsea Clinton in 2032. Total repudiation of her, and, I think, an implied repudiation of their general style of politics.

2. The Supreme Court. Because this is what likely convinced many people who dislike Trump to vote for him anyway, it's one of the few things he gave people in writing, by submitting a list of judges he would consider appointing. This could be bad in the long run, because I think we may be in need of judicial reform, and this certainly slows that movement, but we'll get genuine textualists on the bench now (not that they always stay that way once appointed).

3. The Evolution of Media. The media is more decentralized, and this result suggests that the remaining centralized heights of it matter less and less. That's good, if a little tumultuous during the transition. Many of these outlets have been in slow decline for decades, and frankly, they deserve to be supplanted. And individual personalities, writing editorials and columns and the like, are going to have to take a good look in the mirror. And it's going to be very hard for even the remotely thoughtful ones to see this result and not conclude that they really are out of touch. Some will rationalize, but others will self-reflect and learn, and that's good.

4. Anti-Dynasty Sentiment. It's entirely possible that a lot of this was fueled by anti-dynastic sentiment at the thought of another Clinton in the White House. We'll never know, but it's possible the same thing would've happened in reverse if Jeb Bush were the nominee. Trump's a pretty awful vehicle for this sentiment, because he's at the "outsider" extreme, but it's something.

5. Progressives Rediscovering Checks and Balances. Republicans have been saying for eight years that Presidential power (and Federal power in general) needs to be reigned in. It'll be pretty gratifying watching Democrats come around to that line of thinking now that they've lost the Presidency. It's pretty depressing that it took someone unhinged to get them to come around on this, but I'll take what I can get.

Re: Trump, Great President Or The Greatest President?
 

For actual liberals, the list is shorter and less compelling, but there's a lot of overlap: you guys really are better off being done with the Clintons. You really are better off with executive power being checked, even if the change hurts your policy goals in the short term. And in the long-run a demand-side-friendly Republican might do more for their economic ideals than any success a Democrat might have with them (I cringed as I wrote that).

The media decentralization is more complicated. Moderate Democrats are probably better off in the long run, but it could be an unequivocally bad thing for those further left, because I think a lot of their current ideological movements have survived not on genuine consensus or strength of argument, but on what's essentially a media shame apparatus.

Re: Trump, Great President Or The Greatest President?
 

1 and 4 will appeal to the left. It's a win for those against globalisation and corporate interests, for people who are opposed to deals like NAFTA and TPP. For a lot of the left, the embrace of people like Bill Clinton and Tony Blair was a step backwards as it did more to benefit special interests rather than the electorate.

I think Sean just got himself a Trump tattoo.;)

Re: Trump, Great President Or The Greatest President?
 

Well, good thing everything has to be passed through the house. I think a lot of Trump's own party would disagree with his ways.

I'm all trumped up. Get it?

I genuinely have no idea what his economic plans are going to look like after he works with Congress. Paul Ryan's a lot more capable, I think, and I think exit polling suggests there is way less support for most of Trump's signature policies than he's going to believe after this result, so I'd like to think Ryan mostly pulls him back on the trade front. But who knows.

This is assuming Ryan remains Speaker, of course. But again, I think Trump has less clout than his supporters imagine.

Hillary Clinton thinks this is a great joke. "Trumped up trickle-down economics." I can't believe that zinger didn't work!

Re: Trump, Great President Or The Greatest President?
 

We’ve now elected a president with absolutely no experience and no qualifications. But I’m sure it’ll all work out. What could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes:

I'm sure he'll run our country better than he did his airline or his casinos, right?

Re: Trump, Great President Or The Greatest President?
 

You know that video of Hillary getting dizzy and the Secret Service having to prop her up? That's what Congressional Republicans are going to have to do with Trump.

Re: Trump, Great President Or The Greatest President?
 

I wonder if Hillary was dizzy again last night.

I still find it funny that you've voted for President Fart. Sorry, but that just isn't going to get old for me. :D