Manhunter vs. Red Dragon.
 

Manhunter vs. Red Dragon.

Well? Care to wax eloquent? Think the first was a masterpiece and the latter a shameless exploitation?

Think the first did not live up to the novel?

Hmmm?

Tom Noonan more convincing as Dolarhyde than ... ahem.. Ralph Fiennes?

I'm reserving judgement. I like Ed Norton... I like Hopkins... I like Fiennes too so I'll just have to see.

I will admit to a sour taste in my mouth from Hannibal so I can't say my opinion will be completely objective.

They are just trying to cash in on the Silence/Hannibal craze.

silence was so profitable they would market a Hannibal cereal that tastes like favre beans and kidney if they could.

i doubt it will be as good as manhunter, who is directing the new one? ridley scott again?

Man hunter was ****! It was absolutly horrible, michael mann was good, but Hannibal, he was horrible, and Will Grahme, wasnt half as cool as he should be. They are ruining the series, they arent cashing in (althrough they will) they have the oppurtunity to make a great film, and why the hell not?

Brett Ratner is directing this, not as good as Demme, but good nonetheless. He did rush hour, it was good, heres his chance to shine.

Dont make judgements on a movie that isnt out yet.

I have very high expectations for this movie(won't be the first time), I firmly believe it will rival SotL. Ray as a villian...sweeett!!!

Well, to me the benefits are Ed Norton and of course Hopkins. I don't know...I guess I'm expecting a different kind of film and 'm going to let Manhunter stand alone for what it was.

Either way I'm looking forward to it.

Personally, I found Manhunter's world to be a little too clean. In Silence of the Lambs, Lecter lived in a pratically condemned building, but in Mann's Manhunter, he lived in what could only be considered large corporation's complex.

I'll probably check Red Dragon out just to see how well they blended it with an already made sequel. Ratner shows promise with taking on a project like this and as well as taking on a project that goes by the name of Superman. :D

Fun fact of the day:
In Sweden, Manhunter was released as "Röda Draken" which is Swedish for "Red Dragon" (or, rather, "The Red Dragon" but you know... whatever) Kinda makes me wonder how they'll release this one.

Heh, you wacky swedes are always messing things up.

What's the verdict?

Red Dragon mops the floor with Manhunter in almost every way.

I liked them both...If u forced me to choose i would take Manhunter and here is why...

The opening scene of Red Dragon where Ed Norton shoots Anthony Hopkins ...takes every ounce of suspense out of the rest of the film...Whereas it's a great scene, Nortons character has beatin the big bad anthony hopkins in the first 5 minutes of the film...We have no doubt he will prevail throughout the rest of the film...William Peterson played it a little differently mainly because u didn't see that scene in Manhunter...but it's obvious his character is way more uneasy and scared around Lector...U dodn't no if he'll hold it together for the rest of the film, will he crack under the pressure, will he succomb to his fear?

Ed Norton isn't afraid of Lector beacuse he beat him already...so where is the drama, wher is the suspense...there isn't any - it's diffused...

The film doesn't appear to be about this so much; that's more for the trailer. It's more about the uneasiness of them working together and Graham's risk taking by consulting a serial killer who has a reason to personally hate him. Hannibal doesn't seem to have too much of an affect on whether Will solves the case or not; I think he rarely weighs in with much at all- so maybe it's more of a question of to what extent they will be able to work as partners.

Re: Manhunter vs. Red Dragon.
 

Red Dragon for me simply because the characters are way more enjoyable

Re: Manhunter vs. Red Dragon.
 

Haven`t seen Manhunter so can only express my opinion on Red Dragon. Cool, really thrilling movie! Not only Hopkins but all the actors are superb. However, it seems to me that Crawford should have been played by someone else but instead of Harvey Keitel, his face is too kind I think

Re: Manhunter vs. Red Dragon.
 

i liked manhunter coz it's directed by michael mann, one of my favorite directors, but i think red dragon is the better movie for sure, it's more modern in the direction, more sure footed.

Re: Manhunter vs. Red Dragon.
 

Having seen both films exactly once, Manhunter is the only one I feel that I could watch a second time.

Re: Manhunter vs. Red Dragon.
 

Red Dragon for sure, I watched Manhunter many years ago and I don't even remember any of it. Hopkins as Lector is just way more enjoyable to watch than Cox

Re: Manhunter vs. Red Dragon.
 

The thing about manhunter is that it has the atmospheric direction of micheal mann, u feel more involved in the scenes, especially when the killer meets and sleeps with the blind lady and when will is talking to his wife outside on the poarch and she s telling him that he s gonna be ill again because of this case....amazing direction and atmosphere

You mean, he wasn't placed in an implausible dungeon, but a clean federal facility? And that is a failing?

Hannibal is clean. He is impeccable. He is devoid of any of the baggage of conscience, mercy, pity. He is clinically predatory as he is, himself, a clinician. And Brian Cox was a credible threat. An actual monstrous human being and not the MGM movie monster than Hopkins slid into by the time they made Red Dragon.

Mann's Manhunter world is also largely clean, playing in liminal spaces creating horror through kenophobia. Dollarhyde was hunting the rich so he was entering large estates. Big lawns. Swimming pools. Upper middle class homes with big windows. That sterile tech style that was popular in the 80s. Empty that already largely empty space of any life and leave blood splatter, broken glass, and police tape, and what was aspirational ideal of the 1980s consumer is inverted into a horrible emptiness. What was once a mess of the ruddiness of life and love is reduced to a palid diorama, an altar of sacrifice for Dollarhyde's imagined entering into alterity.

And what is Dollarhyde's dream? It is to escape his own clean, sterile, emptiness. He is eating the living heart of these empty spaces, fixated on the fertile nexus of family life (young mothers with a "bloom" to them). He wants to enter into their world, but he doesn't know how, so being a crazy person, he tries to kill his way in. In a way, he is consuming them just as Hannibal does.

When Reba gives herself freely to him, vulnerable, but confident in her trust, it short circuits him. This is the first time, or so it seems, that he's felt love and it really f**ks with him. He is overwhelmed by that connection. Predictably, he falls into paranoid jealously at the hint of losing it. The Big Red Dragon finally got laid, took a step towards normal human existence by connecting with another human being, but ultimately destroyed it all because he was already so damaged that he could not risk any vulnerability. In the end, he was trapped in that emptiness.

In short, the whole f***ing movie a mediation on emptiness, loneliness, sterility, and here you are complaining that this world is clean and that Hannibal is not in some fantasy Medieval cell. The point of the film is about detachment and desire and the coldness that we feel in when our needs are unmet.

There is no competition.
Manhunter wins everyday.


Acting, direction and the brilliant music.
I personally find Cox scarier than Hopkins, which is not to say Hopkins was bad. He rightly deserved that Oscar for Silence of the Lambs.
But Cox's Hannibal seems just more realistic, as compared to Hopkins or even Mikkelsen, and I love the other two's Lecters as well.


Also, Tom Noonan was amazing.