The Young Pope
 

What were some of your thoughts on the first episode?

Can't believe this isn't called House of Cardinals.

I haven't decided whether or not to watch this. I can appreciate a bit of high-budget pulp, but it sounds like this is particularly over-the-top, and I dunno if it'll end up being mildly or moderately blasphemous, to boot. I'll probably wait a bit to hear more about it.

Re: The Young Pope?
 

I saw the first two episodes. So far it seems like a depiction, from a European perspective, of what it would be like if an American Pope "took office". They also made it a political show, showing the manipulation, slander and lust for power in the Vatican.

It held my interest so far, but IDK if I would recommend it, as of yet.

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So yeah, house of cardinals would be a befitting name, LMAO, from what I hear of house of cards.

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I've watched all the episodes. Many were On Demand, meaning there was a clip at the end of each episode where the director said a bit about that episode. He seems to have purposely made this character ambiguous in many ways.

This is a limited series, not an actual full series, so the ten episodes are all there is of this story. (There is even a big "THE END" at the tail end of episode 10, in case the term "limited series" wasn't clear enough. Ha!)

I found it oddly compelling. Jude Law was absolutely spellbinding in every scene, and his grief in one of the later episodes is so moving that I cried with him.

But I think the director's inability to commit to a clear path for Lenny Belardo makes this show more uneven than it needs to be. Sure, characters should be complex and not Good or Bad. But there's a fine line between making a character interesting and making him unknowable. I haven't decided what I ultimately think of Lenny, and the director's choices aren't helping me. :D

Having said all that, I will say that I appreciated that none of the characters are black or white. Plenty of gray area here, even in the Vatican. And those opening credits with "Along the Watchtower" and the paintings are marvelous!

Courtney and I wondered this at first, but reading around a bit, I don't think this is what Limited Series means. Surprise, it doesn't have a set definition, but this one suggests it just means a shorter season. Also, this was aired in Italy back in October, I think, so I think HBO just sort of bought it (it sounds like they produced it in partnership with a couple of other companies), which means maybe Limited Series just means "not an HBO Original."

Also, they've said they want to do a second season.

I agree that the ending of the first season could easily function as the end of the whole story, though. And if it were, it'd be a pretty haunting, ambiguous ending worthy of debate. Though I'd be glad for it to go on, because I felt like it never quite found its footing, despite moments of brilliance.

This seems to run completely counter to that big "THE END" at the end of the last episode. I wasn't kidding about that. It's really there. It's the only episode that has this. It seemed almost cheesy, but the ending of that finale could definitely work as the end of this series. I won't say more about specifics.

But why would they have a big "THE END" on the screen at the end of that last episode?

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Maybe just because it's the end of the season. Or because they wrote it not knowing if they would have a chance to make a second season or not.

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Possible, but then even cheesier. :) Better to have left it off completely. And where was this sort of optimistic commitment when Carnivale and Deadwood were airing? :D :D

Seriously, though, I'd watch a second season, if only to watch Jude Law. But it feels as if they wrapped up a few key stories and character arcs with a neat little bow and may want to unwrap them if there is a second season. But, I'd totally watch it if they do.

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I'd watch an entire second season, if even if it were significantly worse, just to get one more scene like the argument about abortion.

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That was pretty special, wasn't it? Were you watching the snippets with the director after the episodes? He seems really bent on making sure he leaves everything up to the viewer's interpretation... but sometimes he's a tad heavy-handed in the dialogue. That scene struck me that way... and yet it completely works and is fascinating to watch. Well acted by both Law and Cromwell.

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Didn't see that, no. Those are usually so vapid (on shows in general, I mean) I've gotten used to skipping past them.

I was just so pleased to see a show take theological disagreements seriously, where both people involved were actually, ya' know, smart. I'm generally not a fan of "leave it up to the viewer," except in the sense of making sure both people in an argument have a pretty good point, so that you could reasonably agree with either.

That, and the one-liners the show hits you over the head with every couple of episodes. The show is so bizarre that the poetry sneaks up on you, but when it's good, it's really good.

"Sex is the motor that drives the world."
"But it's not a motor that purrs. It's a motor that keeps breaking down."

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I fell for some of Lenny's snark: "I have to watch golf on TV later." :D

And yes, that debate scene works because both parties are from the same theological tradition yet approach their knowledge from different angles/subsets of beliefs. Of course, I have a lot of issues with specific Catholic doctrines, but I hadn't ever heard the "ensouled" bit till that episode.

One thing I found fascinating about this series so far is that they didn't do what you expect when you hear the title or even watch the opening credits. They didn't make him ridiculously progressive or "modern." His views are complex, and his reasons and personal history are also complex. He's vulnerable and obvious in spots and yet completely unreadable and unpredictable in others. Throw in a few oddly placed miracles, and you have a compelling show.

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Yeah, if you just heard the premise, you'd think he'd be really progressive and the whole thing would just be dumping on religious people.

If you just saw the promos, you'd think he'd be amoral and power-hungry and the whole thing would just be about intramural scheming.

Turns out, it was neither. How refreshing.

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I'm getting conflicting reports about this show. Some tell me to binge it others tell me to burn it. Might have to atleast check the pilot.

I'm not sure how they could have packaged this series accurately, though. I'm thinking they wanted to lure in people who expected those things because there would be a lot of them. And I certainly expected those things but figured I'd give it a chance. And they even start that first episode with a fake-out in that very direction.

Anyway... I found everyone flawed enough to be believable, and I saw true faith in only a few of the characters (Gutierrez being the most likable).

Complete side note: When did smoking in films and TV become a "thing" again? When I was young, it was everywhere. Then it was absolutely nowhere. Now it's crept back in, and not just in period pieces set in the '70s or earlier. Everybody smoked in this show.

Definitely give it a shot. It's fascinating, and it's well cast. However, I found I had to keep the closed captioning on in some episodes if there were too many actors with heavy Italian accents. Hard to follow what some of them were saying, especially if they spoke in hushed tones.

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Tough call. Tougher still in that I don't even know if you'll be able to tell, from the pilot alone, if you'll like the rest of it. The pilot is mostly just weird. The deeper/more thoughtful stuff comes later. I think I can safely say that if you watch half the season and aren't starting to get into it, though, you can probably safely drop it. But even then, there's just so much flowing from one mood to another that it wouldn't shock me if someone loved the last few episodes without loving the others before them.

It's an odd one, for sure.

Yeah, it's not like there's a lot of market for the theological stuff, or even a show that portrays old-fashioned Catholic ideas as anything other than utterly heinous. Putting them in the mouth of a mostly sympathetic character is already kind of shocking, considering the wider culture right now.

And I've definitely made peace with the fact that what I'd love to see in most shows would make them completely economically unsound. :laugh:

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I'd say Jude Law and the actor playing Voiello carry the earlier episodes for me. I completely forgot Law is British...until watching a trailer for the upcoming King Arthur movie and remembering. (Then again, I also watched him last night in Genius, where he uses a thick Southern accent to play Thomas Wolfe, so yeah, I'm confused about Jude Law today. Ha!)

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Odd is good, Yods. Hell, I mean you're a green midget.

How catholic is it? Might seem like an absurd question but I had to drop the Borgias because I found it 'too catholic'.

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Hmmm. I guess that depends on what you mean. Like, do you mean "Catholic" in the sense of portraying Catholicism positively, or just in the sense of being about it, or in the sense of being about its intricacies, or something else?

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In the sense of being about it. I was educated by nuns and renounced my upbringing when I was 11. I dont dislike catholics (or any religious denomination; I just roll my eyes a bit if in film it has an overwhelming mood of catholicness (I just made that word up) and religious hypocrisy.

No offence intended to any catholics in the house.

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Well, it's mostly "about" the main character in a broad narrative sense, but a lot of that has to do with his relationship with God, and pretty much all of the plot mechanics are exclusively about Catholic stuff. So you might not care for it.

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I've got it. I was just about to make my morning ritual of coffee and it hit me about the Borgias - it was the pomp and ceremony, the rituals, the hypocritical attitudes, the dirge like hymns. just rubbed me up the wrong way.

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The use of music in this show is also captivating. They mix all sorts of music and sometimes throw it in at odd spots where it doesn't seem to fit at first. But it's clearly all carefully chosen for effect. It's just a bit jarring to go from traditional, even classical music to modern folk or even heavy rock music in back-to-back scenes.

And of course, those opening credits...

Dani, I watched the first season of The Borgias and started maybe the first episode of the second before realizing I was watching it only to see Jeremy Irons act. Otherwise, it seemed full of unsympathetic, vile, backbiting, treacherous characters. I had no idea who I should have been rooting for because I disliked them all.

This show doesn't have that feel at all. Even the few power-hungry characters are sympathetic in spots. Most, though, are quite human and frail in believable ways.

Same for me, MsAus. I realised i was only watching for the sets and wardrobe. I couldn't connect with any of the characters at all.

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Yeah, it's much more about people struggling with their imperfections and hypocrisies than anything else. That's kind of what I mean when I say it's not House of Cards. I don't mind a well-done show about destructive, ambitious people grabbing at power. It can be fun. But this definitely isn't that, even though it kind of seems like it's going to be in the early episodes.

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OK this sounds like it would interest me. I like films about human frailty and flaws.

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Darn. I dont have HBO. I wonder if it's available for a free download somewhere.

Only with a service like HBO GO or HBO NOW...

https://www.justwatch.com/us/search?...20young%20pope

The next time I tell you guys I'm busy you can be sure to remind me that I actually sat down and made this:

Re: The Young Pope
 

So the New Pope is actually season two of the Young Pope, even though it says S1?


I can't tell you how much time I spent on that HBOGo page trying to figure this out :blush:

Yes. Sorta makes sense if you see it, they're both limited series, even though it's clearly one story.

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I just watched The New Pope tonight on HBO. It was ok. They could have done better with the soundtrack though. The Vatican and Rock music just don't mix well.

Haven't seen the new episode yet, but didn't they do this a lot with "season 1" (The Young Pope)?

I didn't watch The Young Pope, but there's another episode of The New Pope tonight at 9pm on HBO.

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Yeah, this is the style of the show (both seasons). It's the same show. If you don't like the music I'm afraid you're in for a lot more of it.

Personally I find it to be one of the more stylistically interesting and daring shows on television.

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It was definitely a lot more interesting than the initial advertising made it sound to me. Need to catch up with the new season/episode today! Adding Malkovich can only be a good thing.

Watched the first ep of The New Pope last night, looking to see John Malkovich, but he has not yet appeared. The episode was really goofy and erratic, but I suppose they have to pave the way for Malkovich's entry. Don't know what they're going to do with J. Law. We'll see.

Presumably since the subject matter will not allow for HBO's typical language and sex infatuation, instead they give us..... quirk..:)

Oh, it does.

I'd recommend watching the first season, it's essentially the same show and it'll give you a good sense of whether you'll like it even an episode in, probably. Some of season one (the penultimate episode, in particular) is among the best episodic television you'll see, though.

Heh. Yes, I watched the first season with J. Law. If I hadn't, I'd probably not consider going past the 1st ep of the 2nd season..:cool:

Oh. I'm confused, then: you said you didn't expect the subject matter to allow for this stuff. But if you already saw the first season, you already know it hasn't precluded them from doing that.

Yes, the 1st season was relatively tame, yet quirky. But the 1st ep of the 2nd season was way out. Hoping the 2nd ep would ameliorate, we watched it, but couldn't make it to the end. It's not for me, although it's possible that it could eventually become more to my taste. I don't feel like wading...

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I dont like it. Too vulgar for my taste. I expected it to be something like Pope John Paul II with Jon Voight.

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Although Malkovich is doing great so far (well, he wasn't even IN the first episode of this season), I'm finding this season REALLY uneven in its execution compared to the first season. It's like I can almost FEEL the director just off camera, basking in the lovely direction he's giving, and deriving great pleasure in his use of music and odd dancing by nuns, and strange conversations with characters we barely know (the bleached-blond guy with Ester). All the quirky devices used in the first season just aren't working for me this season. They're overshadowing the actual story for me ... which, when I think about JUST the story, feels rather trite and shallow.

For now I'll keep watching, but this season doesn't feel like it's compelling me to watch the way the first season did. Is it that Jude Law is mostly missing? Will Malkovich be able to fill that gap? (Okay, I laughed out loud at the publicist mentioning the actor John Malkovich to John Brannox. Nice fourth-wall bending there.)

We'll see. So far, though, I'm disappointed.

This ended up being pretty good. Still love the visual flair, it's made me want to watch some of Sorrentino's films.

Also, here's my text-only impersonation of Voiello:

"I em the longest-sourving secretaryofstate in the heestory of de chourch."

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Ha! You captured Voiello's accent perfectly! Nice.

I haven't kept up with this since about episode 3. Kept forgetting it was on! Since I'm now caught up on Tiger King and Ozark and a bunch of other shows, should I go back and catch up then? :D

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Yeah, it's worth it. There's some absolutely beautiful moments in the back stretch. Taken as a whole it's almost as good as the first season, and I'd say some of the best of the 20 episodes are in the second half of the second season. Definitely worthwhile. Feels like a real ending, too.