Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
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Movie of the Month - Annihilation June 2018 Went for a very recent release for this month's podcast: 2018's Annihilation, another high-concept sci-fi film from Alex Garland. Some pretty crazy stuff in this one. https://i.imgur.com/zbPCppE.gif https://i.imgur.com/xhYt74y.gif The podcast should be up in a couple of days (EDIT: here it is!). As usual, I'm joined by @Slappydavis, and I'm excited to announce that @bluedeed's back for this one, too! What'd you guys think of this one? |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I liked it.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Hated it.
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Originally Posted by Iroquois (Post 1914743)
I liked it.
Originally Posted by ynwtf (Post 1914745)
Hated it.
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Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1914746)
Originally Posted by Iroquois (Post 1914743)
I liked it.
Originally Posted by ynwtf (Post 1914745)
Hated it.
I will say that that I watched it in theater and was thoroughly disappointed for how generic it played for me. Once it was available on AMZ as a rental I tried again. This time pausing as needed to make notes. I couldn't finish the movie. And that upsets me because this should have been top of my list as it aimed for all my marks. In a parking lot now btw. I pulled over for you, Yoda. It was always ...for you. lol To quote my short review back in February: "To me, it felt like bits of 2001 without any real symbolism, Arrival without any real progression or purpose, Into the Wild without any real wonder or curiosity, Solaris without any real visual awe, and Sphere without any real psychological self-awareness were all pulled from as inspiration without ever being put to use." |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I liked it quite a bit. I watched it a couple of times and I enjoyed it each time I watched. I found it thought provoking and worthy of a bit of deep diving in regards to the genetic prism idea, as well as the themes of self-destruction. Plenty of excellent visuals to be had, and the last sequence/space-out was a high point for me. The film is perhaps not quite as smart as it wants to be, but still a step above the usual action/sci-fi fare.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
^I will agree somewhat. Definitely a step above in effort, and I wish there were more movies like this more often! Unfortunately, for me it never hit what I believe it aimed for. I wish I had finished my notes the second go around but I just couldn't, in good conscience, pay for it a third time.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I'll get into this more when the podcast is up, but I think there's probably a crazy high correlation between people who liked 2001 and who liked this.
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Originally Posted by ynwtf (Post 1914747)
"To me, it felt like bits of 2001 without any real symbolism, Arrival without any real progression or purpose, Into the Wild without any real wonder or curiosity, Solaris without any real visual awe, and Sphere without any real psychological self-awareness were all pulled from as inspiration without ever being put to use."
In fairness, this does raise a good point about whether or not this is good in its own right or just makes acceptably passable use of its influences (though I thought the obvious one was Stalker due to the whole premise of a "zone" where strange things happened). |
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1914753)
I'll get into this more when the podcast is up, but I think there's probably a crazy high correlation between people who liked 2001 and who liked this.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I was thinking more like they gravitate towards films with surreal imagery and overt symbolism.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I don't think the imagery in 2001 and Annihilation is similar let alone surreal. The movie is like a shallow jab at Stalker:
Originally Posted by Mr Minio (Post 1885477)
Annihilation (2018) -
http://www.simbasible.com/wp-content...18/03/1-10.gif A Stalker for our times. A watered down, safe version, with an all-female multiracial team, obligatory action sequences (in fear the spectator will get bored if there are no monsters), wacky CGI, too bright and kitschy computer-game-like environment, and mind-boggling last 15 minutes. Actually, I really liked the last 15 minutes. I wish the entire film was like that. Apart from all badmouthing, the movie was enjoyable enough. |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Wasn’t this suppose to be on Netflix?
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
From what I can tell, it got a theatrical release in the U.S. but went straight to Netflix in other countries.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I liked it, especially the ending. 7/10
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Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1914760)
I was thinking more like they gravitate towards films with surreal imagery and overt symbolism.
Do I really have to rent this again? |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Top 3 film of the year so far for me <3
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Annihilation was great as a sci-fi mind bender, less so for a horror. I really liked it, the people plants, that mutant bear and the ending were all very creative.
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Originally Posted by Mr Minio (Post 1914761)
I don't think the imagery in 2001 and Annihilation is similar let alone surreal.
I'm also not sure how someone could dispute the idea that the imagery in Annihilation is surreal, even if they didn't like it much. |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I have th rewatched it since it’s opening day in theaters, but I remember really really liking it. There’s a lot to it to unpack, so I’ll hold off on my full thoughts until I get to see it again.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Liked it so much. I'll try to listen to the podcast. Wanna know what Yoda thinks. Also, welcome back bluedeed - I missed you!!!!!!!
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Excellent! One of my favorite films of the year so far. Just bought the 4K/Blu-Ray the other week and plan on watching it again soon. I'll definitely have to tune into the podcast.
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I thought it was closer to a cross between Predator and Stalker with an otherworldly cancer taking over parts of the Earth. Watchable but uneven enough for me to rate it . Oh well, I rate all three films the same so I guess I deserve universal derision.
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Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1914780)
I'm a little confused by this, because "similar" and "surreal" are not points on the same spectrum.
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1914780)
I'm also not sure how someone could dispute the idea that the imagery in Annihilation is surreal, even if they didn't like it much.
Or maybe I'm just full of sh*t. |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Hahaha this movie! It's like an unwanted obsession for me. Sitting in a showing if Hereditary to relax after a rough week and this movie, Annihalation, is bugging me.
Ok. There were very beautiful considerations given to details. For example the use of light. Opening shot post-crash into the light house, the angle of light streaming from the light house demanded attention. The projection screen during her course lecture created a lens flair that called back to the light house illumination. The partial glass of water between Portman's character an her husband refracted and inverted their hands as she pulled away from his touch maybe suggesting his character's reflected existence, or foreshadowing their change in the final scene. The light of the shimmer as they wake and examine their surroundings also call back to the opening light house shot. There are clever and intentional compositions throughout that were clearly doted over and significant---at least to the director, DP, and/or whoever. Cancer and its continued reference as an intrusive and aggressive force totally parallels this entity. The contrast here, for me, is how much thought and love must have been given to these details, yet other, more obvious details to plot and necessary internal rules (if this movie wants to do more than pretend to be intelligent) seemed to be dismissed. If not dismissed, then I struggle to see the greater design. For example, it appeared as though the U.S. government/military had simply given up on this. Facilities seemed to have hardly no staff, military personnel, or direction considering the risk of complete "Annihalation." Why then have no other countries been notified that might could help? Why only one guard on her husband under an open tent through which Portman's character could just walk into and touch him, while after she returned from the shimmer everyone was full-on quarantine mode? Why allow so many psychologically unstable and suicidal staff enter without additional support? Why draw parallels with this entity to cancer as an invasive, evolutionary-driven means to exist (completely unaware of itself or its affects on the host world or species) to later imply conscious intent through Dr. Ventress' increasingly awkward title-line speech near the end, followed by Portman and Isaac's "birth" and self awareness moment? It just so happens that the wife of the sole surviving team member is the one needed biologist that can figure out this puzzle that no one before could AND she has the military training to defend herself and her team? That's a Devine Intervention scale of coincidence, except that it's not. Because its just gallactic cancer. The movie had beautiful moments, sure. But the attention to those details were not consistent in other elements of this movie, to me. Seeing those details work so well only heightened my awareness of so many other details that did not work so well. And that may be the core fault I had with it from which all other faults were magnified. Ok so I had to watch Hereditary before finishing this. I hope it still reads in context of the earlier conversation. |
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1914780)
Originally Posted by Mr Minio (Post 1914761)
I don't think the imagery in 2001 and Annihilation is similar let alone surreal.
I'm also not sure how someone could dispute the idea that the imagery in Annihilation is surreal, even if they didn't like it much. |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I didn't much care for it (gave it 4/10 on IMDb).
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Haven’t seen it but will this week as plenty of free time. Will be keen to listen to the podcast also.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I was gonna wait till Netflix, but I guess I need to get my 2 cents ready.
@Yoda Have you thought about a call in/ chat/ email segment for these pods? |
Originally Posted by doubledenim (Post 1915244)
I was gonna wait till Netflix, but I guess I need to get my 2 cents ready.
@Yoda Have you thought about a call in/ chat/ email segment for these pods? |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
It was very bleak. Not only that ending but I think it was devoid of any humour. Can’t say I founf any of the characters really likeable - not to say that makes it a bad movie. The story was the real focus. Am interested to here thoughts.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Originally Posted by Larry (Post 1915924)
It was very bleak. Not only that ending but I think it was devoid of any humour. Can’t say I founf any of the characters really likeable - not to say that makes it a bad movie. The story was the real focus. Am interested to here thoughts.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Originally Posted by Dani8 (Post 1915926)
Originally Posted by Larry (Post 1915924)
It was very bleak. Not only that ending but I think it was devoid of any humour. Can’t say I founf any of the characters really likeable - not to say that makes it a bad movie. The story was the real focus. Am interested to here thoughts.
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Oh yeah definitely. And I will rewatch this keeping that in mind. I didn't go for the chick flick element, but that's the same for anything I perceive to be pushing the girlfriend power agenda (yes I can't tolerate the word agenda used in this context either so please be gentle🙄😩
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
The most puzzling part was how Kane picked up that accent.
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Originally Posted by Dani8 (Post 1915937)
Oh yeah definitely. And I will rewatch this keeping that in mind. I didn't go for the chick flick element, but that's the same for anything I perceive to be pushing the girlfriend power agenda (yes I can't tolerate the word agenda used in this context either so please be gentle🙄😩
The physicist we don’t really get much from....she’s just sorta there moping around. And the leader, the blonde boss, she basically just speaks with an emotionless monotone which is not endearing. But I’m sure all of that was intentional and the real focus I believe is meant to be on the story. Can’t say I really understood the animal attacks either lol. |
It struck me as mediocre, similar to some 1950s "B" sci-fi or horror movies. They must have had a good budget for all the special effects, especially the atmospheric ones, but they just didn't seem to convincingly accentuate the premise or the theme of the film properly. Are there paisleys and pastels in another dimension? I doubt it.
The story was actually rather cliched: Something comes from outer space, or from another dimension, the authorities send a crew to investigate, but they don't all make it back. Lord. And why must they artificially put a group of women into situations where it is impossible to believe? I haven't read the book, so perhaps that was the way it was written in the novel. But to gather 5 women scientists who in a matter of hours turn into commando babes is somewhere between silly and ridiculous. There seems to be a concerted effort in Hollywood to portray women, lately especially in groups, in roles that were only marginally believable when portrayed by men. Cultural Stalinism has replaced good movie making. The film was not without some interesting parts, but whatever it was that some people found deep, completely escaped me. ~Doc |
Originally Posted by GulfportDoc (Post 1915954)
It struck me as mediocre, similar to some 1950s "B" sci-fi or horror movies. They must have had a good budget for all the special effects, especially the atmospheric ones, but they just didn't seem to convincingly accentuate the premise or the theme of the film properly. Are there paisleys and pastels in another dimension? I doubt it.
The story was actually rather cliched: Something comes from outer space, or from another dimension, the authorities send a crew to investigate, but they don't all make it back. Lord. And why must they artificially put a group of women into situations where it is impossible to believe? I haven't read the book, so perhaps that was the way it was written in the novel. But to gather 5 women scientists who in a matter of hours turn into commando babes is somewhere between silly and ridiculous. There seems to be a concerted effort in Hollywood to portray women, lately especially in groups, in roles that were only marginally believable when portrayed by men. Cultural Stalinism has replaced good movie making. The film was not without some interesting parts, but whatever it was that some people found deep, completely escaped me. ~Doc |
Originally Posted by ynwtf (Post 1914827)
Hahaha this movie! It's like an unwanted obsession for me. Sitting in a showing if Hereditary to relax after a rough week and this movie, Annihalation, is bugging me.
Ok. There were very beautiful considerations given to details. For example the use of light. Opening shot post-crash into the light house, the angle of light streaming from the light house demanded attention. The projection screen during her course lecture created a lens flair that called back to the light house illumination. The partial glass of water between Portman's character an her husband refracted and inverted their hands as she pulled away from his touch maybe suggesting his character's reflected existence, or foreshadowing their change in the final scene. The light of the shimmer as they wake and examine their surroundings also call back to the opening light house shot. There are clever and intentional compositions throughout that were clearly doted over and significant---at least to the director, DP, and/or whoever. Cancer and its continued reference as an intrusive and aggressive force totally parallels this entity. The contrast here, for me, is how much thought and love must have been given to these details, yet other, more obvious details to plot and necessary internal rules (if this movie wants to do more than pretend to be intelligent) seemed to be dismissed. If not dismissed, then I struggle to see the greater design. For example, it appeared as though the U.S. government/military had simply given up on this. Facilities seemed to have hardly no staff, military personnel, or direction considering the risk of complete "Annihalation." Why then have no other countries been notified that might could help? Why only one guard on her husband under an open tent through which Portman's character could just walk into and touch him, while after she returned from the shimmer everyone was full-on quarantine mode? Why allow so many psychologically unstable and suicidal staff enter without additional support? Why draw parallels with this entity to cancer as an invasive, evolutionary-driven means to exist (completely unaware of itself or its affects on the host world or species) to later imply conscious intent through Dr. Ventress' increasingly awkward title-line speech near the end, followed by Portman and Isaac's "birth" and self awareness moment? It just so happens that the wife of the sole surviving team member is the one needed biologist that can figure out this puzzle that no one before could AND she has the military training to defend herself and her team? That's a Devine Intervention scale of coincidence, except that it's not. Because its just gallactic cancer. The movie had beautiful moments, sure. But the attention to those details were not consistent in other elements of this movie, to me. Seeing those details work so well only heightened my awareness of so many other details that did not work so well. And that may be the core fault I had with it from which all other faults were magnified. Ok so I had to watch Hereditary before finishing this. I hope it still reads in context of the earlier conversation. |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
My favorite movie this year so far. But I haven't seen much either.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I kinda like the timing window of this chat about the film, because I strongly disagree with a lot that's been said but I'm really interested to see these takes pre-podcast release.
I think the podcast might change a few minds. |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Don’t take too long with the release of the podcast because the more I think about this movie the more I dislike it lmao.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I'm curious to hear it too. I feel like none of this movie is meant to be literal. Hopefully the pod only deals with the movie and no book references.
I know this was supposedly impossible to adapt to the screen and wonder if this creates some of the issues I see in it. |
Have people here read the book? Interesting that it is a 3 book series but the film is only interested in this one and from what I hear, will not continue on.
WARNING: "FOR THE BOOK" spoilers below
In the first book, if I recall correctly. It ends with Lena going into the hole, but we never find out what is down there. This gives Garland basically free reign to tell whatever ending he wants since he shows us not only what is down there, but what happens when she comes back out. The film offers a somewhat more optimistic ending, compared to the everyone is dead and she's in the Shimmer ending of the book. Garland does decide to go for the is she/isn't she a copy ending that might seem obvious, but this change seems a little more in line with what Garland wanted to present within the story.
One of the changes that I like is that we get more background stories for the side characters. Each one has a reason for entering the Shimmer (addiction, loss, depression, etc). Each character looking for something , some kind of meaning in their life. It's interesting to see different aspects of these women's lives lead to their desire to explore this area. While most of this is simply touched upon, it did, at least for me, add depth to what could have been cardboard characters. I love it when a film is polarizing. People on both sides can voice their opinion. When a film is universally loved or hated, sometimes the discussion can get boring because the same points from everyone is stated over and over. I feel like Annihilation sidesteps that. It helps that when a film is ambiguous in its intentions, presentation and reveal it generates more discussion. I'm all for this female driven sci/fi mind bender. While the film doesn't really make me rack my brain as much as it wants to, it's definitely enough of a thinker to make it stand above other sci/fi offerings. The horror elements really work in the film's favour, specifically the humanistic cries of the hybrid bear. Creepy as hell, effective and to me, the most memorable thing in the whole film. Another sequence involves mutilation and discovery. I'm a fan of the film. |
Originally Posted by TheUsualSuspect (Post 1916990)
Have people here read the book? Interesting that it is a 3 book series but the film is only interested in this one and from what I hear, will not continue on.
WARNING: "FOR THE BOOK" spoilers below
In the first book, if I recall correctly. It ends with Lena going into the hole, but we never find out what is down there. This gives Garland basically free reign to tell whatever ending he wants since he shows us not only what is down there, but what happens when she comes back out. The film offers a somewhat more optimistic ending, compared to the everyone is dead and she's in the Shimmer ending of the book. Garland does decide to go for the is she/isn't she a copy ending that might seem obvious, but this change seems a little more in line with what Garland wanted to present within the story.
WARNING: "FOR THE BOOK(S)" spoilers below
I'm pretty sure that the biologist meets the crawler in the first book so to some degree we do know what's in there. And in my opinion Garland just took his ending from the later books where the biologist (or her clone at least) was back at the Southern Reach. Also everyone is not exactly dead in the books, they're just transformed into something else (and at least partially somewhere else). It's kinda convoluted and never fully explained.
Originally Posted by TheUsualSuspect (Post 1916990)
One of the changes that I like is that we get more background stories for the side characters. Each one has a reason for entering the Shimmer (addiction, loss, depression, etc). Each character looking for something , some kind of meaning in their life. It's interesting to see different aspects of these women's lives lead to their desire to explore this area. While most of this is simply touched upon, it did, at least for me, add depth to what could have been cardboard characters.
WARNING: "FOR THE BOOK(S)" spoilers below
In the books the expedition members are stripped of as much personality as possibly, even their names, to give Area X the least amount of data to meddle with. Initially the hypnosis stuff felt really silly to me but it kinda started to make sense later on as a means to turn people from persons to functions.
Originally Posted by TheUsualSuspect (Post 1916990)
I love it when a film is polarizing. People on both sides can voice their opinion. When a film is universally loved or hated, sometimes the discussion can get boring because the same points from everyone is stated over and over. I feel like Annihilation sidesteps that. It helps that when a film is ambiguous in its intentions, presentation and reveal it generates more discussion.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Gonna try really hard to finish the podcast this afternoon. Tomorrow at the latest...I hope?
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Originally Posted by pahaK (Post 1917022)
Funny that I read the book so little ago but can't remember how it exactly ended but...
WARNING: "FOR THE BOOK(S)" spoilers below
I'm pretty sure that the biologist meets the crawler in the first book so to some degree we do know what's in there. And in my opinion Garland just took his ending from the later books where the biologist (or her clone at least) was back at the Southern Reach. Also everyone is not exactly dead in the books, they're just transformed into something else (and at least partially somewhere else). It's kinda convoluted and never fully explained.
In many cases I'd tend to agree but it just goes so much against the nature of the books that lack of characterization would actually have been preferred by me.
WARNING: "FOR THE BOOK(S)" spoilers below
In the books the expedition members are stripped of as much personality as possibly, even their names, to give Area X the least amount of data to meddle with. Initially the hypnosis stuff felt really silly to me but it kinda started to make sense later on as a means to turn people from persons to functions.
I do think they should have stuck with the premise that the whole world knew about it, as opposed to this secret place that no one outside government officials has knowledge of. That part seemed far fetched to me. |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I do hope the podcast can change my opinion here. I've listened to several YouTube reviews, but most gravitate around the same obvious recaps and gush about how grand it was. The tone in that previous sentence isn't necessarily against the movie but the cloned reviews that I kept pulling up.
Right now, I am really stuck wondering if the aim of the movie was quite high, yet it just did not reach that level (IMO), or if it was, as Iro noted the possibility earlier in a reply, pulling too much from source and inspiration material never really finding its own voice in the amalgam. If the former, then good. I generally give leeway to such efforts even if they fail. If the latter, then I don't know what else to allow to judge this movie better. Still though, either way it falls so much in the movie really bothers me. I don't mean in the philosophical sense of interpretation that I think TUS is referring to as a positive when a movie is polarizing. I agree that polarization can be very creative, if intentional. And I also agree that polarization leads to great conversation! Here, though, I don't think I have issue with the concept/philosophy/ambiguity so much as it's the technical application of it all? Some scenes nail it. Others fall short. Let me be very clear: I love that this movie exists. I love science fiction and I love thoughtful and heady ideas. That this was released in any movie-going climate is a wonderful thing. Regardless, while I can give it high marks for being bold, it still falls apart for me! And for that, I just cannot honor it with the same amount of respect that so many seem to be willing to offer it. Help me, Obi-Yoda. You're my only hope! |
And @Slappydavis can you elaborate on which comments you strongly disagree with?
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Originally Posted by TheUsualSuspect (Post 1917034)
Didn't he finish this before the other books came out? I thought I read that somewhere? I could be wrong.
Originally Posted by TheUsualSuspect (Post 1917034)
Remind me again, how do they know that Area X (book) aka The Shimmer (film) duplicates things, or extracts info from people/animals/things. If I recall they have little information about the inside of it so what do you mean by giving Area X the least amount of data to meddle with? I know they are stripped down to their "job title" as identities, but that works better in the written form, as opposed to the film.
I'm pretty sure it was also implied that some of the problems with earlier expeditions (in the books there's also been many more expeditions than in the film) were due to information extracted from the members. Not using names, not sharing any personal information and using hypnosis to implant unconscious orders was a safety measure against the area so there must have been knowledge.
Originally Posted by TheUsualSuspect (Post 1917034)
I do think they should have stuck with the premise that the whole world knew about it, as opposed to this secret place that no one outside government officials has knowledge of. That part seemed far fetched to me.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
The book sounds great!
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Originally Posted by ynwtf (Post 1917041)
And @Slappydavis can you elaborate on which comments you strongly disagree with?
Thought the characters were excellent (bored of characters that are just likeable, these characters were actually distinct). Visuals did a *great* job of dovetailing with premise. That anything in the film happened without an explanation behind it. Whether or not that explanation was good is a different question, but the film was VERY intentional. And of course, and I hate that I even have to say this, all complaints about the all-women team (book was all-women, so can we at least drop the tired hollywood agenda claims). Personally, it probably won't be my favorite film of the year (though one of the scenes is one of my favorite ever), but I think most of my faults with the movie were disagreements, rather than mistakes. I will agree both that it's bleak and that Arrival is better (but I could say that about literally any film). |
Originally Posted by pahaK (Post 1917053)
It's pretty much same in the book. There's a cover story about unspecified environmental catastrophe.
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Originally Posted by Slappydavis (Post 1917094)
I'll keep it generalized:
Thought the characters were excellent (bored of characters that are just likeable, these characters were actually distinct). Visuals did a *great* job of dovetailing with premise. That anything in the film happened without an explanation behind it. Whether or not that explanation was good is a different question, but the film was VERY intentional. And of course, and I hate that I even have to say this, all complaints about the all-women team (book was all-women, so can we at least drop the tired hollywood agenda claims). Personally, it probably won't be my favorite film of the year (though one of the scenes is one of my favorite ever), but I think most of my faults with the movie were disagreements, rather than mistakes. I will agree both that it's bleak and that Arrival is better (but I could say that about literally any film). I'm only teasing. Thank you for the reply and I'm still looking forward to the podcast. MAYBE someone can change my mind :) |
Originally Posted by TheUsualSuspect (Post 1917105)
I thought the public knew about the place in the book, no? Damn, I guess I forgot more about the book than I first realized.
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Originally Posted by ynwtf (Post 1917108)
So... Arrival is better than literally any film?
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I did some internet sleuthing and it seems a lot of praise stem from, "doesn't explain stuff". That's not a bad thing, but why doesn't every other movie get this benefit of the doubt. Looking forward to what you guys say, because I don't want to say people love it because of Alex Garland and it gets a pass.
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The movie certainly has its faults, but the highs far exceed the lows for me. I'm showing my support.
https://www.redbubble.com/people/edg...rid&style=mens haha, this is one of the cooler shirts I've seen in awhile |
I just finished basic editing...right before I have to go out the door. So, should be up in a couple of hours when I get back and finish up the intro/outro/accompanying graphics.
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Here it is!
My thanks to @Slappydavis and @bluedeed for their humor and insights, as always. Hope you guys enjoy. The best way to get it is to subscribe with iTunes. The next best ways are to just download it with this link (or add the podcast feed into your RSS reader). Or you can just listen right now with this embedded player: |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Thanks a lot guys! Look forward to checking this out tonight.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Great podcast guys. I appreciate you went in-depth about meanings of the shimmer and the ending. I loved "Annihilation" exactly because there was no definitive label to explain the shimmer and be done with it. Some stuff you dug up was awesome!
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Shoutout to bringing up the house! That really didn't work with the other stuff they established (and the sand trees...). In the BTS it was explained that it was the unhappy homelife and the "boar" was Kane. It wasn't hunting either, it was in pain and the lashing out/ attacks were from sadness. ???
I'm just trying to figure out an overall meaning of this movie. You guys brought a lot of insight from the book in, but I don't know where that lies with trying to figure out the movie. Based on the movie alone, I see two major things. Cancer and transformation. I get the cancer angle and how it grows unchecked (the Shimmer)and transforms what it comes in contact with. I can get that. The human transformations don't feel like they were playing on the same field. It seemed to be a magnification of the true self, but I'm lost on why Lena survived. If this movie is just suppose to be ambiguous, I think it could have been done better. If this movie is suppose to mean something that I don't understand, I'm fine with that. The only way this makes sense to me is if it is all a dream. |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Decent podcast! Good to hear the objective and researched comments.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Good podcast. Thanks for putting in the time. Can you say who was who? Two voices sounded remote and similar as a result so wasn't sure what user name to associate to each.
I guess I need to rent this movie again. I'm still very disappointed in it, but I need to look again to confirm my memories. I'm off next week so I should have time to follow through this time. For example, the conversation of Lena's character at the end being ambiguous as to which version she was brought up a few thoughts for me. I agree with call-in voice #1 that the movie ruled that she was the original version, as the copy was burned. Along with it, all of the shimmer was burned as well. Btw, how did Kane's copy not also burn? I mean based on the only provided evidence within the movie, he too should have be set afire, no? I suppose you could argue that he was no longer inside of the shimmer, but there was not enough evidence provided to even loosely support that effect when so much more evidence suggested that he should have been consumed. Anyway, the thought that came up for me was that I enjoy ambiguity; however, I do not think the ambiguity that we are left with was intentional. At least not to the level that existed. I think there were too many internal rules left out (perhaps intentionally, to leave question and wonder), but for the rules that were allowed the movie just did not follow them equally throughout. Kane not burning for example. Or Lena surviving by clearly destroying her clone, yet showing she has been altered to some degree in the final scene when previous we were shown that everything affected within (at least within) the shimmer was destroyed. OK, so even if I can accept that Kane was outside of the shimmer and safe from its destruction, whatever was affecting Lena was still very much inside. Granted, we don't know what happens to her during the blackout, but that is just sloppy to me considering how intelligent this movie tries to present itself as. Now, back to the conversation. I enjoyed some of the comments that were projecting meaning or intent or references to other movie and literary sources. I think art can be provocative, challenging, and embracing of other works of art to carry forward some idea even if just an allusion. In fact, I believe good art must do that (personal opinion). There is a somewhat fine line here though where the artist intentionally places such nods and exercises expertise and self-awareness enough to transcend that "nod" to having purpose beyond a nod that then carries forward and becomes something more than an abridged reference note and simply adding something "mysterious" without any true meaning or reference. Because the latter only works from the viewer's perspective given whatever history, knowledge, and personal contexts that individual brings with him or her to the viewing. Yes, it is deep that the view can cite a novel line of text that some obscure scene reminds him or her of. But was that the intention of the writer or director? Or was that simply the effort of the viewer projecting their own considerations? That is outright laziness on the part of the creator, IMO, to leave such projections up to the view. Please do not get me wrong here. I DO believe that leaving things up to the view to ponder is WONDERFUL! I just do not think, given how so much of this movie to me was uneven and consistently inconsistent, that it deserves credit for doing so on purpose. That work was all on the viewer. Should Dark Tower take credit for reminding me of Something Wicked This Way Comes when I saw the old amusement park elements? Should all of the fear and excitement that the older movie gave me as a child raise the level of quality for the Dark Tower just because that was my unique and pretty random association to an inconsequential scene? Seems silly to me. To simplify this whole thing, let me offer this: when I looked at my dog (RIP, Dootle-bug!) and she tilted her head at me, I immediately fell in love and wondered if she was trying to communicate with me. I wondered if she was showing affection or what questions she might be formulating to ask if we shared a language. I projected so much of my own insight and awareness onto her that I began to see my personality reflected back through her. In reality, she was most likely thinking, "Hungry. Cat poop in dirt stuff. Yum." The dog was not enlightened. I just figured she was because I gave her so much unearned credit. --- Addition: I am frustrated because as I read and listen to comments I feel that all of the praise this movie gets appears to mostly be from individuals projecting their own thoughts onto it. My take on that is that the movie was void of anything meaningful in and of itself. What ideas were presented were only presented and I feel the movie in its release state was at best a second draft. The wonder that so many seem to be praising this movie appear to be personal projections. Again, I can stare into a deep, dark hole, and ponder the infinite mysteries of the universe. Regardless of what I'm thinking as a result of seeing the hole, it's still just a gaping, empty hole that deserves NO credit for what I put into it. *cries* |
Originally Posted by ynwtf (Post 1918216)
Can you say who was who? Two voices sounded remote and similar as a result so wasn't sure what user name to associate to each.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
The good news for me, I guess, is that once all of this is over I will have a pretty decent scathing review to mark ...at some point.
:D |
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1918220)
First/clearest voice is mine. Second voice is Brendan/bluedeed. I think slappy's first comments are a few minutes in.
Ah ok thanks! I had the other two reversed. |
Originally Posted by ynwtf (Post 1918216)
Addition:
I am frustrated because as I read and listen to comments I feel that all of the praise this movie gets appears to mostly be from individuals projecting their own thoughts onto it. I'd say Annihilation is particularly conducive to discussion because it deals in some really broad themes. But it's totally reasonable to make that distinction between a good movie, and a movie that's good as a jumping off point for a larger discussion. |
Originally Posted by ynwtf (Post 1918222)
Ah ok thanks! I had the other two reversed.
Since I edit these things, the best shorthand I have is naturally speaking style: if Brendan's thinking about what to say, he pauses, and if Slappy's thinking about what to say, he repeats the previous word or phrase. And I don't think about what I'm saying at all. |
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1918227)
This is kind of a running gag on the podcast, yeah: is the movie we're talking about good, or are we just good at coming up with stuff to talk about? At this point I think we've all concluded that even a moderately interesting film creates lots of opportunities for analysis, and that we could probably riff on anything (cough).
I'd say Annihilation is particularly conducive to discussion because it deals in some really broad themes. But it's totally reasonable to make that distinction between a good movie, and a movie that's good as a jumping off point for a larger discussion. Yeah. I think I'm past the point of objectivity, unfortunately. Good that this movie has created such discussion. I just wish I could believe that was by design! Thanks for the link too, btw. I'll listen to it this evening. |
Originally Posted by ynwtf (Post 1918234)
Yeah. I think I'm past the point of objectivity, unfortunately. Good that this movie has created such discussion. I just wish I could believe that was by design!
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Starting the podcast now...will chime in after I finish!
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To answer some of ynwtf's questions:
It is definitely unclear why specifically phosphorous burns the shimmer (and not any fire). One thing that does seem clearly intended by the film is that the copy had to be the one that initially caught fire (meaning, the wall behind Kane when he used the grenade didn't catch fire and burn the shimmer down, the shimmer had to be 'taught' how to burn down. If you make the most-stretchiest stretch you could, you can say it relays to the theme of self-destruction; Lena taught her clone how to *literally* self-destruct, and that clone not only spread fire, but the concept of flammability (and that spread as a 'mutation' along with the fire). Again, that's a hazy connection. I interpreted Kopy-Kane as not burning because he's outside the shimmer, but specifically I recalled the oil spill metaphor. If a field of oil catches fire, if somehow a bird covered in oil got away from the main pool of oil, it wouldn't catch fire. As far as projection goes, I think you're right, but I also don't think that's a necessarily bad thing. A lot of my favorite films contain a lot of projection, just like how a lot of my favorite conversations with people are ones where either they or I operate as a screen for their projections to take place. And I think that takes skill. Which, this film fumbles sometimes. Basically, to take your example of Dark Tower...yes! I do think it deserves a little credit! If a movie is able to act as a screen for people to project/recall unique and random pieces of their life and relive and/or reflect on them in a meaningful/positive way, then that's a good film! If that film's enjoyment hinges on those associations, then that film is likely to be divisive, unless those associations are more or less universal. The film-maker may not 'deserve' credit for bringing out those associations if they are so random, but like it or not, those associations improve the viewing of the film. The baker of the madeleine may not deserve credit when Proust had a strong involuntary memory of his childhood, but Proust would probably call that madeleine one of the best he ever had. To be clear, I think Annihilation is just solid, not amazing. But I'll mainly defend the work along the lines of intent and effort, though I won't necessarily defend how successful it is. I think it had things that completely failed to connect with me, and I liked it less for it.
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1918229)
if Slappy's thinking about what to say, he repeats the previous word or phrase.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Listened to the podcast and then flew off to lunch to think about it for a bit.
Some good points were brought up. Interesting thought about the echos. As I listened, I was reminded of a paper MoFo WinterTriangles once sent me, called Plato and the Simulacrum. It's a pretty difficult text, but it dealt with some ideas about how originals are affected when they are copied, and both are affected by the existence of the other. I'd recommend it, but damned if I couldn't understand more than 40% of the thing. I was thinking of picking up the book, but after hearing that Chris has bailed after two of the three books, I may take a pass. |
Originally Posted by Slappydavis (Post 1918310)
True, bad habit I picked up from my family that talks over each other given the slightest window. If you want to keep the floor you have to keep saying SOMETHING or else you've lost it.
I'm a lot closer to you than Brendan in this regard, anyway, I've just had to listen to myself recorded so many times over the years that I've been forced to make a little headway into it. When I was really little I'd just fill time with gibberish inbetween the few words I actually knew, like "gabba blobba bla apple juice gabba tubba." |
Originally Posted by Sedai (Post 1918316)
I was thinking of picking up the book, but after hearing that Chris has bailed after two of the three books, I may take a pass.
They're also pretty modest in length, if that makes a difference. |
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1918322)
It might be more for you than me. I bailed because I sensed (correctly, as it turned out) that I wasn't going to get the kinds of answers I was hoping for. But I know you dig on open-endedness and ambiguity a lot more than I do. So, I don't have a recommendation either way, except to say that what I know about you leads me to believe you might like it more than I did.
They're also pretty modest in length, if that makes a difference. |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Good comments by ynwtf and others. If I interpreted that all correctly ynwtf I’d tend to agree. Now what I said before - good podcast, interesting and informative although my appreciation for the movie itself hasn’t grown. As ynwtf said or I believe he said, a lot of the discussion was focused on the book(s) again this was interesting and informative but the movie itself hasn’t grown from the discussion imo.
Interesting comments from yoda re the main character and perhaps she is on the autism spectrum in the book. Maybe they should have run with that. But in the movie she could be personable, seemed adequate socially just was cold and detached. I said it in a previous post but I found her and really all the character unlikeable. I’m more than fine with unlikeable characters but they should be interesting. These were not. Maybe it would have added a layer of interest if she was different in that way. Someone, maybe yoda mentioned the swamp. In my opinion they had an opportunity to create a area in the film teeming with life and danger - given they were going for this horror theme. The swamp was devoid of life save for the cgi crocodile which was an odd tenseless encounter. More on the horror type scenes in reference to the visuals. We got a very bright colour palette with splashes of darkly twisted mutations such as the skull growths. It was odd and jarring for me. Beautiful and bright but not effectively haunting then suddenly a grotesque bone fragment growth. Credit though I found the flower people interesting. In terms of the bear - one of only four creatures we see when this are meant to be growing and splitting apparently. It was just fkn weird lol, compared with the doe that copied itself almost perfectly - I hadn’t noticed one was brighter than the other as pointed out. In terms of who she was, whether she was a clone. I never really thought so. I appreciate she was telling the story and could manipulate it but as others have said and as yoda said, it’s her. Why would she destroy her own shimmer and not suffer the burning fate of the shimmer herself. Why not just let it keep growing as apparently there was no way to stop it or was there some type of insidious plan which wasn’t clear. Basically what I’m left with regarding this movie is - a strange and jarring world which failed to scare me. Strange logic regarding the mutations and duplicates. Such plain and unlikeable characters. Again the podcast was great to listen to but mainly with reference or just plain help From the book as the movie itself felt all over the shop. I’ve gone from thinking it was at best average. Now I’m just a hater. 2/5 or less for me. |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Good movie, needs a rewatch though for me, tempted to get myself a 4k copy,a quiet room and go full volume on the Dolby Atmos soundtrack second time around. I'll reserve my opinions until then.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Yeah I gave it a 7/10. Very good, not great.
Jon |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Going to give this a listen this week. I fully expect Chris to relate it to Alice in Wonderland somehow.
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Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1914746)
/internet
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I gave it 10/10
Originally Posted by films246+1 (Post 1919423)
Yeah I gave it a 7/10. Very good, not great.
Jon |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
That's a tad harsh. There are some legitimate critiques in the podcast, none of which are eschewing intellectualism (to the contrary, we usually over-intellectualize the stuff we talk about :laugh:).
I suppose there are people who will write it off as weird because it doesn't follow the usual script, but there's some odd choices in there even if you don't do that. And the flip-side phenomenon, of course, is that some people like anything weird or audacious even if it's narratively or intellectually messy. For every dude who adores every Marvel movie there's a film student who thinks anything sufficiently different is ipso facto genius. If you look back a bit there's some talk earlier in this thread (and in our Eyes Wide Shut podcast) about Kubrick and the way dealing in certain themes with sufficient technical style can lead a lot of people to read genius into ambiguity. |
Originally Posted by mariamjosephjr (Post 1921533)
I gave it 10/10
9s and 10s are hard to give out. Where is Gone With the Wind? Grouped with Annihilation? No way. Jon |
Originally Posted by GulfportDoc (Post 1915954)
And why must they artificially put a group of women into situations where it is impossible to believe? I haven't read the book, so perhaps that was the way it was written in the novel.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I think it warrants a re-watch from me. I was underwhelmed when I first watched it, but then I gave it more thought, re-analyzed it in my head, and realized perhaps I wasn't giving it enough credit.
As far as Garland films go, I didn't like it nearly as much as Ex Machina, but once again... I think it deserves another chance. And upon a second viewing, I might rank it higher. |
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 1921534)
...
I suppose there are people who will write it off as weird because it doesn't follow the usual script, but there's some odd choices in there even if you don't do that. And the flip-side phenomenon, of course, is that some people like anything weird or audacious even if it's narratively or intellectually messy. For every dude who adores every Marvel movie there's a film student who thinks anything sufficiently different is ipso facto genius. If you look back a bit there's some talk earlier in this thread (and in our Eyes Wide Shut podcast) about Kubrick and the way dealing in certain themes with sufficient technical style can lead a lot of people to read genius into ambiguity. Symbolism rather than substance. If you present something incoherent, and give people the impression that if they don't "get it", they're unimaginative neanderthals, then they'll start saying that they get it. And some even believe that they do...:D ~Doc |
I love this movie! It is definitely my favorite movie so far this year, and I believe it is one of the best that has been released this year. There was definitely some room for improvement in terms of the pacing of the movie as well as the development of the some of the key characters, but overall it was very well done! Natalie Portman was great and the visual effects as well as the music were incredible.
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Originally Posted by DocHoliday (Post 1922255)
I think it warrants a re-watch from me. I was underwhelmed when I first watched it, but then I gave it more thought, re-analyzed it in my head, and realized perhaps I wasn't giving it enough credit.
As far as Garland films go, I didn't like it nearly as much as Ex Machina, but once again... I think it deserves another chance. And upon a second viewing, I might rank it higher. I tried a second time and didn't make it halfway through. I keep thinking that I'm missing something very deep in this one from all the praise (and partly from what I'm seeing in these forums), but man! I just don't see it! And I want to! lol. So. Yes. Please come back and tag me or something when/if you do follow-up? |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Can we all agree that Dredd is still his best movie?
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Originally Posted by doubledenim (Post 1922699)
Can we all agree that Dredd is still his best movie?
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
I'm afraid we can't all agree on that haha I, for one, cannot. Though I did enjoy Dredd
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Yeah, kind of just spitballin' there :) . I liked Ex Machina better, but it seems to more divisive in general.
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Originally Posted by doubledenim (Post 1922699)
Can we all agree that Dredd is still his best movie?
I'd say it's easily Ex Machina. |
Originally Posted by ynwtf (Post 1922660)
I'm curious what a second viewing might offer you.
I tried a second time and didn't make it halfway through. I keep thinking that I'm missing something very deep in this one from all the praise (and partly from what I'm seeing in these forums), but man! I just don't see it! And I want to! lol. So. Yes. Please come back and tag me or something when/if you do follow-up? |
Originally Posted by doubledenim (Post 1915941)
The most puzzling part was how Kane picked up that accent.
The Shimmer copies/mutates/mimics more than just DNA. The tattoo again is another key element to show it's not just DNA as several people are seen with it. Lena, Anya and Kane's team members. Then there are more obvious things like her house (maybe not real?) and their clothing. The humanoid at the end copies her...but it also copies her clothing, which is not DNA. I think the Shimmer essentially captures your identity. Tattoos are part of peoples identity, as well as their homes, accents, etc. Then again, this is all a Usual Suspects (film, not me :p) unreliable narrator scenario. Who knows what really happened in there. |
Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
A Quiet Place. Snoozlandia more like it.
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Re: Movie of the Month - Annihilation (June 2018)
Read all your comments, now ewally want to watch it:D
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