you mean to say political correctness is so powerful now that it does not care about the financial losses that may occur of politically correct films ?

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

has it reached a point where critics pan the movie just because it has too many males ?

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

i think future films will be made with quota system . only after the black quota , hispanic quota , gay quota , women's quota etc has been filled with actors then only will the straight white males get a role in films . how the once mighty straight white males have fallen !!

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

I mean to say that people do not want to see remakes of old things, but the filmmakers think that political correctness so powerful that that on it's own, will make anyone want to see a remake, when that is so not the case.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

It's just part of Hollywood's slow process of creative putrefaction.

The hijacking of the artistic producers by the ideology of political correctness is just a symptom that Hollywood has nothing new to say: oh, we don't have any new ideas but lets just do the same movie from 30 years ago but now with lead female casts because it's "woke". Essentially, most of the people who work in Hollywood are now effectively brain dead as artists so their "new ideas" are just the old ideas recycled by forcing them into the contemporary "woke" ideology.

If you compare the state of Hollywood with other creative industries in the US like TV and videogames you can easily notice that TV and videogames are way less affected by this ideology because now they have more creative people working in there. I guess Hollywood has lost most of the young talented artistic people to other industries.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

Ha, I was going to make a joke that I want to see an all women cast remake of The Fight Club. Guess what? They actually already made it! Who knew?

Female Fight Squad (2016)

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

It looks more like a female remake of Fighting (2009), rather than Fight Club. In Fight Club they fight each other to get rid of their anxieties of the world. I would be more interested to see a female remake of that compared to The Expendables.

I haven't seen this but it doesn't look anything like The Fight Club. Seems to be more like the old van Damme films and stuff like that - people are fighting in illegal competitions and evil people running them try to exploit them.

Yeah, a remake of Fight Club with a women cast, just might make some money. But who to cast? I'd cast Emily Blunt, she was pretty kick ass in Edge of Tomorrow.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

Yeah Emily Blunt would be good. I see women fighting underground as more plausible though compared to an all women seal team like in The Expendables.

Actually if Hollywood is looking to have women in action movies more, I mentioned before how I felt the movie Set It Off was very good. Why not just remake that since it's an action thriller movie, with four lead women roles.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

Id like to see a Fight club remake thats actually centered around the fight club.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

I think Channing Tatum already made that movie.

That's a nice shot – who are we looking at there Saunch?

Emily always kicks ass :yup:.

There’s no claim that the change is “solely” to draw in a bigger fan base. The claim was the risk. Any change in any medium is bound to lose fans or gain them when something deviates from the paradigm. It’s the nature of the people. There is a risk. Time and again history is replete with examples where products, franchises etc. diminish due to some alteration from the known. New Coke in the 80’s comes to mind. This certainly is not always the case as the risky change was worth it to take the company or franchise to new heights e.g. Apple in the mid to late 90’s.
To further the Walking Dead example, many fans were done with the show after the start of season 7 causing the numbers to drop from there. There was an extreme deviation from what it started out as. Does that mean those who disapproved of the new direction after 6 complete seasons were not big fans anyway? Simply: Story presents “A.” Viewer becomes fan of “A.” Story slowly changes from “A” to “B” viewer is not a fan of the change or “B.” There are multiple factors, of course, for why fan base leaves or a show loses its popularity in which a never ending back and forth could ensue.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.



It doesn’t require any presumption to say that, on a whole, no one cared. The popularity speaks for itself. Sure every movie is going to have its critics and naysayers and, of course, Star Wars is not above reproach. Yes, I realize that Star Wars was not delivered to George Lucas by divine inspiration. He obviously wrote a story in a world from which he was greatly influenced. But the point of this entire thread is, “Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?” and Star Wars is undeniably being pushed in that direction with a feminist agenda admitted by Kathleen Kennedy.

Perhaps some misunderstanding of my post as you repeating one of the points I was trying to make. I'd agree the politics really are integral to those films and they'd be lesser cinema without them.

My point was that I think theres a divide between that and a more cynical style of film making that I'd say has arisen recently were tokenism and poorly realised politics are used as a shield to criticism. You look at thenegative reaction to The last Jedi which was very quickly pushed as being down to a "toxic fanbase" rife with bigotry.

I mean yes doubtless some of the reaction came from such people but I would say it made up a relatively small percentage of the criticism. Indeed I would argue that actually this style of film making depends on baiting bigotry in order to politicise otherwise quite empty cinema. A situation like Kelly Tran being abused online for me whilst obviously reprehensible behaviour was also something I think she was set up to receive by the studio.

I mean to be fair I don't think a film with a female lead automatically needs to make any point about feminism to justify itself, between those two Starwars sequels I think you had the very creditable and far less cynical Rogue One for example.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

No. How many have there been? 5? 10? Now superhero movies. They're so far out of hand it's boring.

Huh?

Dreadful movie, IMO, but she was surprisingly (to me) terrific in Sicario.

They are being made because Hollywood has an agenda.



It is the exact same reason that they keep making crappy anti-war movies which continue to bomb like Lions for Lambs; Hollywood quite often uses its influence on impressionable young minds in order to push its Leftist propaganda.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

Lions for Lambs: the definitive anti-war movie.

You would think so given how they are viewed by the Left, but, no, they are not evil as a whole (a few are, but the vast majority are not, just like every single other demographic).

This big Doctor Who fan (who has three separate, weekly watching groups came within a hair's breadth of quitting the show over them changing the gender of The Doctor to female. I own every single Doctor Who DVD/Blu-Ray, I own every single episode of all of the spin-off shows (even K-9 and (ugh!) Class) and I even have a YouTube podcast where a friend and I watch a Doctor Who serial every week while drinking and then we discuss it while we are drunk. I have been a fan of the show for the last 36 years (since I was 13). Don't tell me that I may not be a big enough fan of the show.



I have watched all of my male childhood TV and movie heroes be turned into women: first Starbuck, then The Ghostbusters and finally The Doctor. It is disheartening to men to watch everybody that they emulate be turned into a female. (Notice that these changes only seem to go one direction.) Everybody wants a hero with whom to identify. That is why Black Panther is the biggest superhero movie of all time domestically and the 3rd biggest movie of all time domestically, because (excepting Blade), Black Panther was the first really good superhero movie centered around a black superhero with whom black people could identify.





A fan who loves something with all of his heart and who dedicates a large portion of his life to that something does so with the understanding that, while some change is inevitable, that the basic tenants of that thing will remain the same. If that thing changes so much that it is basically a nearly completely different thing than what it was originally, then even lifelong fans will walk away. That is why many people, myself included, have walked away from Star Wars to the point where the most recent Star Wars film lost money!



Basically, people don't mind a bit of change, but don't change the things that they love too much or they will stop loving them. They want to know that the same hero, food or activity that they have always known will always be the same for them. That is why there was so much blowback over New Coke, so much blowback over the gender change of The Doctor and so much blowback over certain sports franchises who have moved out of the city where they were founded and with whom they have always been identified (like the Baltimore Colts moving to Indianapolis or the Cleveland Browns moving to Baltimore and becoming the Baltimore Ravens).


And the longer that something was the same (55 years in the case of Doctor Who), the more jarring the change is. All you do is anger the fans who buy and/or consume your product without guaranteeing yourself a single new fan. That is why these changes will almost always end in disaster (a la Ghostbusters).

The term that I have heard is "Get Woke, Go Broke". There are lots of examples this century of companies, political organizations, etc. taking a hard left turn and then completely going bankrupt. They do this because they put Leftist PC politics ahead or profit and logic and, thus, they turn off a _lot_ of customers and fans.

Yeah, good example and good movie. I actually have a "thing" for John Carpenter movies. One of my favorite directors and score makers.




It is interesting to see where the show will go now. Will they continue to have new female incarnations or will it revert back to male or something else? We'll see. I actually haven't kept up with the Doctor since David Tennant left. He was the best Doc in the new reboot, but Tom Baker will always BE the Doctor to me.

Oh me too :p. I really enjoyed the commentaries he did with Kurt Russell for all their films together.

The obvious next step is to change race isn't it? I would imagine they'll stick with a female Doctor though after Jodie Whittaker.

I remember reading Steven Moffat saying that it made much more sense to decide what the Doctor would be before even getting to the casting stage – from a writer's perspective I can imagine it's even more important. Chris Chibnall seems to have taken that approach. He pitched a female Doctor to the executives, they approved it, then they auditioned actresses.

Tennant was good – I got cheesed off with him towards the end but as usual more because of the writing than the actor. Matt Smith has been my favourite of the new series :).


Well he said himself didn't he "the best way to [play the Doctor] is just to be Tom Baker" :laugh:. Sylvester McCoy, Tom Baker, Paul McGann and Jon Pertwee are my top four.

Yeah — beat you ;)! Well, as I said earlier in the thread, I quit over the female Master.

To be fair to the other two though, they were proper reboots weren't they? Not intended to be a direct continuation.

I still wonder why the hell everybody's forgotten about Blade 😊! I loved that film when it came out.

Peter Davison, as far as I know, is the only former Doctor who was against having females playing the part. He put forward the role model argument, especially citing the non-violent, thinking male hero aspect. But I don't think we are limited to role models who resemble us – I don't feel that way personally. There was a brilliant comment from a transgender fan who was watching Peter Capaldi's first Doctor Who story. They mentioned the scene where the Doctor is appealing to Clara to understand that it's still him even though he looks different, and says "Just see me", which is all this fan wanted from people – to be accepted. So not a carbon copy of that fan's experience but it was still relevant to them, without actually changing the sex of the character.

That's how I feel too. It's probably not true for the majority of the audience, fans or otherwise, but the success of this creative decision is unproven and we'll have to see what happens.

The agenda is to make money as easily as possible.

Some people are and some people are not; I would argue that young children are especially limited to people who resemble them (because familiarity and similarity are such key aspects for them) and they are also a group who needs good role models the most so that they can aspire to and learn good habits, life choices and character traits early on while they are still forming their ideas, personality and outlook on life.

Yeah, I think you're on the right track that they'll probably next try to change his race and then turn the Doc into a gender fluid non-binary pan sexual. :rolleyes:

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

I don't think children need their role models to be that much like them. I can recall role models who were not of my own race, ethnic background or religion. Most were men, not my own age. I guess you could argue they were like me because they were males. Anyone out there have a role model who was the opposite sex outside of one's mother?

Yeah, unfortunately not in my own life :rolleyes: but many women in the public eye.

:)

"God willing we'll all meet again in Spaceballs 2: The Search for More Money"'

You certainly wouldn't think so via Hollywood were they still make up the majority of the heroic characters whilst foreigners are still more likely to be cast as badguys.

I wish.


Just look at the press situation. The easiest solution is for studios and streamers is to cartel up and deny access to the social agenda waging parts of the press maximizing good PR.

Well the subject of sex, "or terrifying things like that" as Tom Baker put it :D, was avoided for a long time. Even romance, where it cropped up, was relatively vague. Peter Capaldi had a line towards the end about the Time Lords having moved beyond the human idea of "gender" but I thought how unimaginative and lacking in scope that sounded. In the classic series it was like they'd moved past thinking about gender or sex at all, and were on a different plane of existence.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

I believe that this stuff can actually be detrimental to the goal of diversity.

A lot of people seem to be annoyed by these in-your-face diversity pushes. The craziest examples are remakes of movies of which the characters were male and are just being afforded a sex change for apparently no reason but diversity.

Now let's look at this psychologically - I think annoying people with showing unnatural female leads in their face can make them more negative towards female leads in general.
It could lead to people to think, every time even an original now movie features a female lead - "Is this another one of these diversity pushes?" rather than - "Is this a good movie?".
That's exactly what you don't want!
You want it to be natural. You want female leads to be more NORMAL - not oddities like original characters with sex changes. People could well become more negative (and if just subconsciously) towards ALL female leads because they are being annoyed all the time with this "tokenism". That's not normalization.
That's politics and unnatural. Not enjoyable and thus to be rejected by people. Diversity goal fail + negative consequences for all female characters. The latter in theory.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

Just imagine 12 Angry Women. All in this small room, sweating... :yup:

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

They have a tv adaption. It’s called The View.

Not enough sweat, if you know what I mean. ;)

The recent new version of Lost in Space, which I haven't seen but I've read about, is another good one to mention. I believe the Robinson family have an adopted child who is black (the new Fantastic Four applied the same principle but in reverse, Sue being adopted by the black Doctor Storm). Plus, their Doctor Smith is female, and played by Parker Posey.

I think the problem they've got with these things is that they very often look manufactured, or just that they're trying too hard. With that in mind I agree with what you say below, and it has become very political:

And then we're getting into the mentioned problem. If we're being fed with annoying and unnatural "token" diversity leads... genuine female/black etc characters might also suffer because we think - is that another one of these political statements?

I don't want to think about that when checking or watching a movie, but unfortunately it is a reasonable thought.
Leads to distraction and less appreciation of such characters though.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

It is pretty patronizing to women to suggest they need special movies made just for them.

Just write the same movies but with female characters.

I was thinking the other day that so many of my favourite films, some very recent favourites, have two female leads. It's a recurring pattern.

This is actually interesting cause my friend didn't like The Karate Kid remake, cause he said that it was because they made the lead character black, unlike the original, and he thought they were doing it as a political statement, and he didn't like the remake as a result.

I wasn't bothered by this though, and I felt the remake might have actually outdone the original in some ways, and it never occurred to me that the kid being black was done as a statement.

Do you think so?

But then again, if you were to remake a martial arts movie, like The Last Dragon, and make the lead character white, people would be very disappointed in that I am guessing.

They wouldn't be disappointed, they'd be screaming bloody racism. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

If you all feel this way.. then how about Hollywood stop making American remakes of foreign films.. Its pretty much the same sh*t...

Hell the Argentine version is a lot better than the American remake of "El Secreto de Sus Ojos".

and seriously, if you dont watch foreign films.. you really have no say in this...

better yet, lets remake these movies with a gay cast...

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

Oh okay, maybe I'm being doubles-standardish here, but I actually like when Hollywood remakes foreign films when they put a new take on it. As long as it's done well. But I feel it helps to bring in a new audience to a not so well known foreign film. Where as movies like Ghostbusters and The Expendables are well known to people in comparison.

I definitely hope they'd stop that too but I guess it's not happening until US audiences learn to read subtitles.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

I don't think it's just about subtitles being a problem for people though. The US market doesn't really market foreign films very well, cause most people don't even know what a lot of these movies are. For example, a lot of people I know, do not know there is a Swedish Girl with the Dragon Tattoo but everyone I know, knows about the American one. So the US has failed to promote the Swedish one just as much, and perhaps they need to just as much advertising or theater showings, or something.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

Oh it's about the subtitles...I hear it a lot

"I don't want to read while I'm trying to watch a movie"..

If any film is well made...you don't really need to read...but focus on the visual story.

Not only that the actors can tell you a lot – I'm usually much more interested in the faces of the actors than the subtitles :).

I'm unfamiliar with anything Karate Kid, but what you describe here pretty much what I was assuming will happen over time for many people - although I think for most it will be less extreme than for your friend. I think most won't and shouldn't be so distracted by the thought of political correctness statements that they literally don't like the whole movie.
It would be more subtle I think, but it might happen... more general negativity towards black/female etc leads.

I think that has nothing to do with black/female etc remakes.
In the end, let's say Sherlock Holmes becomes a black woman (**) - this would be taking an established male character and giving him a sex-change for what ever reason (besides politics)... and if politics are the driving factors chances are the product is gonna be bad because politics aren't a good source of inspiration for media that has nothing to do with politics and is supposed to entertain and fascinate.

If you remake a foreign movie you mostly don't even change the original characters, they stay the same and are just different actors.
Sometimes of course ethnicities will change naturally. This however happens natural and is very obviously not inspired by political correctness, which is why the PC re-castings seem unnatural.
A lot of people also don't know the foreign versions before America has a go at them. Thus you don't change established characters. They are only established for people who knew them before, which often aren't many outside the original country.
And if it's a single movie, as is mostly the case I think, those often aren't really established characters of the same kind as James Bond or Mr Holmes etc...

(**) Ps: Not even sure that is so unlikely - he and Watson have already become female on a HBO series.

Unless you're dyslexic....

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

UGH, people keep talking about movies getting too political, just for casting a woman or a black person in it, which is silly. it'd be political if the whole time, they kept making a big deal of how she's a woman/person of color/whatev, comparing it to a man or something like that. the choice to cast it that way in the first place is political i guess, but i don't see how it affects the movie, or somehow magically makes the movie itself political, as it is possible to make remakes slightly different, or even quite different, from a different perspective, and they can still be good.

That's true.

Yeah, this is very wrong for the simple fact that anything can be political if one allows it to be.

You’re arguing that applying a political message to something that wasn’t “meant” to be political diminishes the product? Well, it’s quite easy and a frequent practice of adaptations to apply a political message to pre-existing properties. Keep in mind that very few things are apolitical in any case. Shining a light on the doctrines that informed the original work or even changing them to suit a contemporary audience happens every day and some find that it adds to the enjoyment of the consumption.

Isn’t the OP arguing this very thing?

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

Well I am arguing that applying a political statement does not shed a light all the time. Sometimes it's just done at the hopes of pulling in a new audience, but a lot of viewers see through it and see it as trying to force politics onto it maybe.

I have no problems with James Bond being played by Idris Elba or even Charlize Theron being the first female James Bond aka Jane Bond..

Here's an idea. Make an original series with characters that are female/minorities. MAKE A GOOD SCRIPT!!! Oh but ya know that's too much effort I guess *eye roll*. Try and start a new secret agent franchise with a woman lead. A whole new character. The possibilities are endless there.

The main problem with these remakes and re imagines is that they usually take a plot that is mediocre or horrendous because they don't wanna take time to make an actual good story first. Changing the cast to females or a different race than the original characters doesn't automatically make your mediocre script any better.

Money always triumphs over reasoning which is why this **** is and will continue to happen until every big franchise is driven into the ground.

Audiences wouldn't accept a female Bond though, cause they would not like a female action hero who seduces multiple men throughout one movie. Usually audiences accept a female hero seducing one man, but if she to be like Bond and seduce an average of three per movie, then audiences would have a problem with that. This is unfortunate though, cause if audiences want a female Bond, they should also accept the Bond character traits as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a female action hero being as promiscuous as James Bond, but I think it should be done in a different movie with an original character though maybe.

Bond in the Craig years has obviously been much more socially aware as well, the characters womanising hasn't really been gloried in as we see either real romance or linger on the deaths of the women he treats more casually.

I could maybe see Idris as Bond shifting the focus a bit, rather than Bond himself being the representation of establishment entitlement this would be more Bond fighting against that entitlement, already present somewhat I spose but could be played up more.

Can’t imagine why not.

:laugh:

Again double standards? Today's woman isnt anything like what it was like in my Grandmother or Mother's time...

Who says she has to be involved with so many men...

I guarantee .. Charlize Theron can kick your a$$ as well as most of the Hollywood female action women.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

But part of that appeal of James Bond is that he as a promiscuous love life and that is part of the appeal and the fantasy. If they take that away, then a lot of fans, including myself would feel part of the appeal is being taken away, that what makes Bond entertaining in the first place.

If they were to make Bond a woman and take away the promiscuity, then I would think they are just trying to make another social political statement, and I would not like that at all.

If you are going to make Bond a woman, then keep her promiscuous, and keep true to the character still.

I don't see changing the gender a "political statement" as you call it.. I see it as "change of time". Just like if they used Idris Elba.... why not a black James Bond?.... I'm sure Idris would be great at it... look at his track record... look at Charlize's track record as well.

I don't see all this as political, racial or whatever you want to call it... I don't buy into that sh*t... I'm calling it a change..nothing more..

When people bring up racism or discrimination of gender... I say "bullsh*t"... its just an excuse.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

An excuse for what?

I just see it as the filmmakers wanting to be 'safe', and can't trust the audience that they want to take a risk, but that is my interpretation.

I don't mind a black James Bond as that is just a very minor change for me. My friend didn't like the new Karate Kid movie, cause the lead was changed to black and he thought the filmmakers were trying to make a statement and therefore didn't like it. That didn't bother me, cause it was hardly a change much. So I don't mind a black James Bond.

But when you make Bond a woman, that is a much bigger change and it becomes questionable, and I ask why are you doing this, what's your statement? And are you going to take away Bond's promiscuity, cause she is woman, and how far are you going to go with this, and how safe you are going to play it?

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

I wouldn’t have a problem if bond was female if it works. That means it needs to be a good film with strong characters and story. If it’s merely a forced gender political statement at the expense of character and story then that’s a problem.

Speaking of time, there's another angle. The Bond films are a nearly 60-year-old franchise. It could be argued that every other possible avenue has been explored with regard to the main character. This is also the situation that Doctor Who is in, though a more extreme example given that 13 actors have played the role compared to Bond's 6.

The thing with Bond is that he has a Scottish father and a Swiss mother. It's more believable now that the character could be black or mixed race than someone born in the Twenties or Thirties.

I'm guessing the issue with a female Bond might actually be that your coming up against a potential backlash from both sides of the political spectrum.

Again the Bond character under Craig especially is shown as a very flawed person, he's fighting the "bad guys" obviously but uses women cynically and gets them killed. If you had a female various of that character would it go down very well with a lot of more nominally liberal audience and media?

Not to say I wouldn't want to see it, I'd agree it sounds like a very interesting way to rework Bond but I'd fear it would end up lacking in teeth for fear of the above.

I think many of you are misunderstanding why it is that fans of the James Bond films might not want a female James Bond. It's not because of a dislike of women in movies....It's because many 007 fans have a 'real image' in their head of who Bond is. Bond has been around so long that the character has become part of the fans folk lore & belief system.

When you drastically change that image by casting a female Bond, it then threatens their mental idea of who they thought Bond was. That's human nature. And it works in reverse too....find a movie or literature character that many women cherish and grew up with and then make a film with that character as a man and see if 'sh** don't hit the fan', cause it will. Make the next Jane Eyre movie with a man as Jane Eyre and see if women don't get pissed that Hollywood is treading on their cherished role models.

Film makers can make any movie, anyway they want. Fans can like it or hate it. That's just the way it is.

I think it's fans' knowledge of the character that's being challenged. They don't need to think about who Bond is, they already know. Especially if they've read the original novels. That's why Lazenby and Dalton are regarded more favourably by fans than they probably are by the wider audience.

Agreed, that's more or less what I was trying to say.

If I was making the next Bond film and wanted a female lead, I would tell the story of another 00 agent. We know James Bond is agent #7, so why not a movie about one of his fellow agents?

That's the counter argument. It's interesting actually that a female 00 agent has never been mentioned. Barbara Bach's The Spy Who Loved Me character was basically the Russian version of one.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

I think what they could do is instead of making Bond a woman, just make another movie about a woman secret agent, but could have traits like Bond, such as using the opposite sex and getting them killed, and things like that. Could be interesting.

I wouldn't be upset if there was a male version of Jane Eyre or anything that is typically female..

I'm willing to accept change. I know some who aren't!

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

I feel sorry for those who have James Bond as their cherished role model.

Apparently, there are many!


People who use racism or political excuses are sad in my opinion. You will never accept change in any form if you think this way.

Perhaps its my age, who knows... but Im tired of hearing about racism or politics.

Let's talk about gender swap. .

Let's take the Danish film "Jagten",. remake it as an American film and have the accused being female and the child accuser being male. Wow, would that open a big bag of worms!

I believe you....I mean in general, there would be backlash if Jane Eyre was made a man.

As far as Bond films go, I stopped watching them after Roger Moore, so personally I don't care what they do with the franchise. I'd be more interested in watching a 'Bond' film if it was about agent 006 who's a woman and set in the early 1960s during the height of the cold war.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

When you say people are using racism or poltics as excuses, excuses for what exactly? I thought that some movies actually were trying to make political statements through gender swapping, and I didn't have it as an excuse for anything. So what would that excuse be?

are you willing to accept change? do you see every freaking change as politically motivated? I sure in the heck don't.... I see people who are a double standard, who look for things to be their way...if anything changes from the norm.. they immediately throw "politically motivated" or "racism" in it..

I think you like to be a bit controversial in all these threads you make... I think you enjoy looking for reason to argue about things....

Any discussion on politics or racism or any of the topics like this, there is never a healthy discussion...Never!

Edit:

And seriously, I really dont care what you think of what I said...

I enjoy movies for what they are.. entertainment.

Who cares if a man or woman is playing a character different than what the book says or what the norm says or society..

How is it racism or politics if someone wants a fictional character to remain more or less as its been described in the original works and has been for the last 50 years? Especially if the said someone would have no objection for similar new character being of another sex and/or race.

Was going to say something like this. The last decent Bond film as far as I'm concerned had a 00 agent as a villain. So why not go that route again, as a villain again or even a fellow agent leading to its own spinoff.

Having a female Bond though LOL nope, do that and you'll be going woke and broke.

go back and read what he said.. he calls these changes in characters in movies like the new
"Ghostbusters" and "Ocean's 8" using all-female cast are politically motivated.

and he said that James Bond character couldn't be changed to a woman because James Bond is promiscuous and no one can accept a woman being that way..

So does this mean that non-political, non-racist reasons to oppose changes in fictional characters (at least well established ones like James Bond) are valid or at least understandable in your opinion? Because I'm kinda getting the "change is progress, change everything" vibe from some messages in this thread.

Also I do agree with @ironpony on political (or ideological) motivation behind those all-female remakes. On the other hand I do disagree with his reasons to oppose female James Bond (but still oppose the idea due to fact that James Bond is well established white male hero). And just for the record, I do like the concept of female action heroes and would like to see more good ones.

I think the changes have nothing to do with politics but I think he's trying to find a reason to get people to argue... and like I said... There is never a healthy argument because it's all based on opinions...

There is too much drama in politics.... and like they say... Opinions are like a$$holes.. everyone has one and they all stink.

I don't mind if they change a character from male to female or vise versa...

if you like female action heroes, go see "Peppermint".

Y'all want to argue about this.. .go for it.. but it's my opinion, it's all stupid.

It's on my watch list.

We already know Agent 006. He was in the movie GoldenEye, (with Pierce Brosnan as James Bond). Agent 006's name is Alec Trevelyan, and he was played by Sean Bean.

If you haven't seen GoldenEye, you should give it a try. It's by far the best of the Brosnan Bond movies.

I'll give you an example of where politics, especially the current political climate in the UK, has entered into things.

Steven Moffat, the outgoing showrunner of Doctor Who, spoke at the end of his tenure about not casting a female Doctor. He said it hadn't been the right time and that "[Doctor Who] is also for people who voted Brexit. That's not me politically at all – but we have to keep everyone on board".

This was demonizing viewers who had voted the opposite way to him, and insinuating any number of other 'character flaws' that would make these viewers stop watching because of a female Doctor.

No. But if you change a character primarily out of a political agenda and not because you are simply inspired to do so... this isn't a good scenario. It doesn't have to be bad, but chances are great and it's harder to accept. You're talking more generally about political messages... however it's specifically about forcing well established characters to change significantly - inspired primarily by politics, without context in the story itself. Which disturbs the coherence of the story and it's world.

Ain't a double standard. If a woman seduces many men, it's a very different thing for the audience... the male part (majority I assume) can no longer identify with the main figure as a ladies-man but only with the "being seduced" role, which I think is less appealing for them.
I personally don't care about that part of James Bond, could watch a movie without "womanizing" with no issues.
I guess even for the female audience it will be strange because if something has been a certain way for decades it's hard to immediately accept a complete U-Turn, especially when the original is being "taken away" for it's sake.
+ Women on average are more comfortable with the "being seduced" role and for men vice versa. Not allowed to post links...

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

Well I think if they are going to have a female James Bond, they should have her be a "manizer", as I feel that is true to the character, and I would be much less interested in a female James Bond, if they were to take that away. I would feel what's the point of doing a female James Bond, if the character is going to lose his/her traits in the process.

Bond is a homme fatale womanizer, so it would make sense to make a female Bond a femme fatale manizer.

Audiences have accepted femme fatales manizers before, it's just usually they are villains in movies, where as they would just have to make it the heroine instead. Is that do-able with audiences?

Basically a lot of fans like me, like the traditional Bond formula. So if they were to do it with a female Bond, they should have her start out in bed with a man, during the first act, before the new plot opens up more and gets more heavy.

Then along the way she hooks up with another man on the mission, who either turns out to be bad, or ends up getting killed, then along the way, she hooks up with the last guy she ends the story with, in defeating the villain with.

Could they do that for a female James Bond?

Actually sounds interesting...
But dammit, not as Jane Bond haha. A totally new character would be the way to go. One that leans on the James Bond aesthetic, style and legacy but not just James Bond with a sex-change. That's just kinda cheap... Jane Bond sounds more like a James Bond copy, cooked for 10-14 year old girls IMO.

Re: Are these female lead remakes are getting out of hand now?
 

Yep for sure, I would like to see it with a new character. The closest the came in my opinion was the movie Haywire. In that one, the girl seduces the guy by undoing his pants immediately, without even kissing him first. I thought this was a major breakthrough as female action heroines always start off slower it seems, but she goes right for the pants, and she is a heroine and not a villain.

But they couldn't have her go for multiple men throughout the movie though still, like James Bond.

I was thinking of Haywire all the way through this discussion :D.

That's my kind of breakthrough :cool:.

Doubt that women would care (I wouldn’t), but would his name be Jane?

Oof, this is a “major breakthrough”? Someone gets a hand or blow job without being kissed first? Thrilling.

I watch movie after movie after movie where the good guys are evenly split between male and female, but every single bad guy is male. Every last one. The perception given by Hollywood is that only men can be evil. Look at Black Panther. Every single woman in the movie (except a single incredibly minor character, who is a girlfriend of a bad guy) is a good guy on the good side. All of the bad guys are male. Every single one except for the single minor character. What are the odds? Infinitesimal, unless you believe that women are inherently good while men are much, much, much more predisposed towards evil.


This is also directly related to my other Hollywood gender complaint: the rate of death of men and women in movies. Men die at great rates, all of the time. However, when a woman dies, it is a dramatic and rare event. Last week, I watched Hotel Artemis. There are exactly three women in the movie and about 40 or so men. Spoiler: Every single woman lives and only two men live. Despite the vast disparity in gender represented in the movie, more women live than the men. Not a single woman dies. It is o.k. for nearly all of the men to die, though, because they are evil. There is one killer for hire evil woman, but she gets to live as well.



Another great example is the Divergent movie (the first one). Despite the fact that men and women are shown to be equally represented in the various factions, if you watch closely, nearly every single person killing other people is male (because, remember, men are evil) and nearly every single person who is shown dying is male (because, remember, it is o.k. to kill men). When the protagonist's mother dies, the entire movie stops in the middle of a battle for a couple of minutes so that we can say goodbye to the mother. (You know, because a woman's death is dramatic). However, when the protagonist's father dies a little later in the movie, the protagonist basically shrugs it off. There is no dramatic goodbye, the movie doesn't stop and it is almost as if nobody cares. Watch the movie closely with this in mind and you will see it.



This stuff has been going on for years and years. Kids watch these movies and, subconsciously for most, consciously for some, they are left with the impression that men are evil. It is no wonder there is so much hate for men from the Left these days.

Guess you’ve never seen Fatal Attraction, The Postman Always Rings Twice, Double Indemnity, Bonnie & Clyde, Black Widow, etc., etc.