Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

The punch was obviously fake - that's easy to see.

Since there wasn't really a joke here, I wonder why they went with THIS particular schtick to create buzz?

I think I would've rather seen Borat come down from the ceiling in his underwear and land on someone's face! ;)

Huh? You can see it strike him.

He seems genuinely fazed, and everyone around seems incredibly uncomfortable, too.

Anything could be faked (but really, to what end?), but I don't see a single thing to indicate it.

I can't see it connect. It looks like a classic stunt punch where the fist misses by a mile (or a good 6 inches, anyway).

I watched a couple different versions on YouTube. I think the camera angle from the back makes it look like Smith is closer than he actually is.

Also, Chris Rock's reaction is not realistic - his hands are behind his back - if someone breaks script and comes at you on stage, you're at least going to get your hands ready for whatever might happen by instinct. But even after Chris gets hit - his hands go back behind his back (as if this is all expected and rehearsed).

If you got punched as hard as that was supposed to sound, your first reflex reaction would be to grab / touch your own face - but Chris doesn't do that. You'd also be a lot more startled & stunned at least for a few seconds, but Chris seems relatively unfazed & recovers almost instantly.

I'm also wondering to what end?

P.S. After watching closely a few more times I edited some of my former observations.

Yeah, I dunno what to say dude, I'm watching it and you can see his hand on his face. He's nowhere near three feet away. And the angle in this video is partially from the side.

It's not a punch, it's a slap. Slaps don't knock you on your ass, at all. It's a perfectly normal reaction physically, but regardless, I meant everything else: I mean how he seems a little dazed, a little indignant, how his line after is a little off, how he takes awhile to gather himself.

It's kinda dissonant to think it's both staged but that they didn't bother to do anything to stage it properly, anyway.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

1/ If it was staged I don't think they would've included 2 f-bombs
2/ If it was staged I don't think they would've had so much of the action occur with Will Smith off-mic
3/ It it was staged I'm sure they would've written some sort of conclusion. It probably would've been lame and unfunny, but not this open-ended awkwardness. Unless Andy Kaufman has risen from the grave and is now writing Oscar bits.

We'll be studying this clip like the Zapruder tape.

After watching some more I had to edit some of my initial comments, Chris.

Yes, looking at their feet positions, Smith does look to be in striking distance.

I still don't see it connect, and it's hard to tell if it's a punch or a slap (although Smith's hand appears open afterwards).

I agree, the whole thing is rather weird either way. (If it was real, couldn't Chris Rock easily press assault charges if he wanted to? There would be no lack of witnesses!)

I thought I saw a lady wearing a babushka in the audience! ;)

I guess the Oscars was worth seeing after all… I was ready to just bore myself with the usuals but damn this got things to another level. I’m still in shock. Everything that happened after that cannot top that moment.

And no way in hell it’s fake.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

Oscar always surprises.

I didn't watch the show or even make my picks on the forum because for once I didn't know a single movie involved. I just came across this thread and this incident sure seems real to me. It's pretty ugly and I can't fathom any good reason to fake it.

"BONES, IN TRACTION":


https://i.ibb.co/Byp1hMH/FB-IMG-1648438444525.jpg

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

That was 100% real. Will laughed at first until he seen his wife’s reaction. Then will screaming f-bombs afterwards with absolute anger in his face was real. Also the fact Will didn’t make light of it afterwards makes me think it’s real.

No way would the Oscar’s condone violence like that and not make everyone aware it’s a joke isn’t happening.

GI Jane joke might have been harsh, but that's the job and par for the course for Rock's style of jokes. That reaction is unacceptable, IMO. It's the wrong time, the wrong forum, and on international television for all the world to see, potentially triggering all kinds of trash level speculation and judgments. Smith, for right or wrong, should be above that at his status and role model position. Yes, stand up for your wife, but with good judgment and consideration to more than the self in the moment. I'm kind of shocked, to say the least.

Also, [Friday gif here].

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

It's obviously, 100% real. There is nothing about that which appears scripted. Nothing. And as everyone has already said, why the hell would anyone agree to such a stunt if it was faked? It wasn't played for laughs. It was legitimately unsettling. It makes Will Smith, on a night where he wins an Oscar, look horrible. And The Academy simply doesn't play that kind of performance art shit.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

Chris Rock made a joke about Jada having a shaved head... thing is, she's suffering with alopecia.
Rock basically made a joke out of her medical condition... and it's not the first time Chris has made jokes about Jada's condition.

Seemed Smith used the ball of his hand across the jaw, rather than an actual punch, but as far as I've read it was real.

So?. It’s still only a light hearted joke coming from a comedian. Bald Men get made fun of all the time that have conditions too. Ricky Gervais has said far worse to these celebrities over the years and they have just had to laugh it off. Will should of just seen Chris backstage and spoke to him.

Lol Will Smith is a b*tch, laughing it up and then storming up the stage because wifey doesn’t approve. Self righteous assh*le

Really was a good actor on his speech

Anyway, I don't see what Will did as a big deal; Rock was punching down with his joke, so Smith punched him down, you know?

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

So tough but let wifey cheat on him for years

Bitch slap that barely phased Rock.

Rock 2-0

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

I've now seen an extended version of the incident (I wasn't watching the broadcast), and that was a long walk to the stage. Plenty of time for him to consider what he was about to do. Crazy. Never really had an opinion about Smith before, he was always just "there" as far as I was concerned, but this is a bad look to say the least.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

Appearance is reality. Even if it was scripted, the "reality" is that he hit him. If that was a bit, then the bit bombed.

I did find it odd that Smith appeared to be suppressing a smirk when he yelled F-bombs from his seat (looked a bit like Duper's Delight), but people act weird in stressed situations. It is very tempting to judge non-verbal behaviors as false, but genuine behavior can often seem false.

It is interesting that the acceptance speech was re-crafted(?) as an apologia for the strike. "I just defend strong and fragile people" yada, yada. He apologized to the Academy, but not to Rock, so it was a non-apology-apology (i.e., the sort of thing one would expect from a narcissist).



At any rate, I don't think that this was a scripted moment.

Do we know to a certainty that Rock knew about her having alopecia? If you have sources, feel free to share.

If the Rock did know, was the joke a warrant for violence ("Fighting Words")?

Wanda Sykes recently made fun of LeBron James going bald and presumably his alopecia is just as medical as Jada's (i.e., people go bald - many women wear wigs). Why is it a medical condition when a woman goes bald, but an amusement when a man does?

But, let's say that Rock knew and that making fun of female alopecia amounts to "fighting words." It's not a double-standard or, if it is, it is a righteous one. Do you, as a 53-year-old-grown-assed-man at an event the represents the best of your trade and at which you have been honored in the past and at which you are presently nominated for honors, pick this moment to stride up to a comedian to strike him across the face?

All I know is that if I snuck into an adult movie theater and How The West Was Won was playing, I'd be a little disappointed.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

At age 7?

Jada revealed four years ago that she has alopecia, so Smith didn't really need to apologize to Rock, as I see it.

I don't generally buy the whole "toxic masculinity" thing, but this is a total toxic masculinity thing. Culture of honor nonsense. "Keep my wife's name out of your mouth" - speaking of Jada as a possession (the honor of his wife has been offended). Then there's the rambling acceptance speech where he bangs on about protecting "strong" but "fragile" women.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

Interesting to see that when I was sleeping one of the highest-paid actors in America punched some dude I've never heard about before.

tl;dr why he hit him? Initially, I thought Smith's wife cheated on him with the dude, but now it seems Chris Rock just said some joke about her?

Anyway, it's much more important that the actual best film of the year got the Oscar it deserved.

https://i.imgur.com/cEDXQNz.png

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

I understand why Smith took offense to what Rock said since he was essentially making fun of his wife's medical condition, but there's a time and place for everything and smacking him in the face on live tv and getting visibly upset was going out of line and he could've handled the situation much better.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

I don't know... the slap still looks fake to me (like two kids play fighting).

And the reactions don't seem natural - there's not a hint of a pause on Chris's part, and even if a slap didn't hurt, a person would still be stunned momentarily just by the element of surprise - and when we get hit in the face it's just reflex to put your hand to your face (a combination of protection in case more is coming and as an act to sooth and inspect the area attacked via touch even if it's not necessarily painful).

Also, both are smirking immediately afterward. Such a brazen attack would need real anger behind it if it was real, yet Smith looks like he's trying not to laugh as he walks away.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

A smashing joke.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

The jokes are great though...


"Why did he use an open hand? Paper beats Rock."


"Will Smith saw Jada wasn't laughing and had a "What Would Tupac Do?" moment."

Welcome to hyperreality. What's really happening? I don't have a clue. I just know that modern media messaging leaves us in a state of constant state of stimulation, agitation, fear, anger, and confusion. I hear that the "other side" is evil and lying to me, that the stakes are apocalyptic (I am not sure who is at fault, but democracy is definitely at stake - everyone is saying that), that the stakes, therefore, justify the means, and that I am a sucker for believing the left or the right or the establishment line or the conspiracy theory. We have photoshops, Deep Fakes, autotuned singers, robocallers, and phishing attacks. It's amazing we believe anything anymore.

1. It's not what you know, it's what you can prove. What you can prove has use premises acceptable to your hearers. These premises will basically reflect a gated media narrative. Thus, even if you're right about this, you're wrong.
2. Cui bono? Does this really help Will Smith? Does it really help Chris Rock? At most, we can speculate that the stunt was engineered to help flagging ratings of an increasingly irrelevant awards show. The theory "there's no such thing as bad publicity" would be the order of the day. We're getting memes from this, but this also lowers the decorum of the Oscars even more. Would the Academy really want to give itself a black eye for ratings?
3. The simplest explanation, the surface explanation, should have presumption unless and until you have strong evidence to the contrary.
4. It's OK to note that something looks "weird" or even that something is "wrong" without committing to a firm denial of the surface explanation. Your denial will require an explanation and if you really haven't done the math, you will start conjecturing wildly to prove a firm counterclaim. I agree with you that it looks weird, but I am not prepared to accept a burden of proof to establish that it was not a "real" event. I don't know.
5. Accept that weird stuff happens, that sometimes people look unnatural and suspicious in pressure situations. I once had a person speculate to colleagues that I was gay after grabbing my ass in a photocopy room. I didn't really know what was happening or what to do about it in the moment, so I kept my cool and walked away. In his eyes, that was proof I was gay (I guess I was supposed to assault him or scream or something). The only thing I regret about the incident is feeling shame at the thought of being misidentified as gay. Has it occurred to you that this might look fake to you, in part, because this is the first time we have seen these two people in an honest moment that wasn't scripted and produced and polished?

See...I had Judi Dench kicking Billie Eilish in the lady parts...so I lost the pool.


I guess Will next movie will be The Pursuit of Chrisbitchass

Only if the immortal phrase Rebecca Martinson coined in her email to her Delta Gamma sorority sisters were used to describe this event.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

Rock's reaction is pretty funny. Few people would have taken being slapped on live television so lightly.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

I really want to get Smith and Gervais in the same room now, because I am pretty sure Ricky would just keep going.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

https://i.imgur.com/1GxM8nq.png

Who slaps better? Simon Yam or Will Smith? 👋

Bernie Mac

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH54auk02KI

Seriously?

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

This is straight up some West Philly ********. I know where this guy comes from and that was no joke. "DON"T MESS WITH WEST PHILLY" says anybody from my neighborhood.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

Anything for ratings.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

I don't believe it based on his demeanor walking back.

So the mature and adult and non-criminal response to someone who has made a joke, even if it was in bad taste, is to hit them?

That's ridiculous.

The notion that we are supposedly in a culture where we are trying to be better people, and the way we keep that in check is to physically attack people who say things we don't like, is some backward ass thinking.


I'm not some complete pacifist who doesn't think there are times where it is at least somewhat understandable to strike back at someone. But even when it is understandable, it is almost never the best course of action. It should be a last resort. Which means I hardly can ever see a joke being an excuse.

And what line do you draw in the sand once you consider this acceptable? I'm pretty sure anyone could come up with a reason why a joke hurt their feelings or made them feel misunderstood or unloved or different. What if the joke had been about Jada Pinkett Smith investing a tonne of effort and hopes and her life savings into a GI Jane 2 project, and it had been a complete failure, and she'd been staying up all night crying, and Will Smith had been consoling her? Maybe that failure of a movie made her distrust her worth as a human being. Maybe it was an even worse fate than alopecia. Could Will Smith still hit Chris Rock over that GI Jane joke?

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

The hipocrisy of the beautiful people in Hollywood is beyond me. If this is really for real, than I realy hope Chris brings Will Smith to justice. Also, props to Chris (judging that it was true) for his posture.

I mean, I’m never generally for punching people, but why/how the **** is that joke okay? Her hair loss is due to a health issue and she has made it known it bothers her/has caused some anxiety. When I had an asthma-like breathing condition people would follow me and imitate my breathing, it felt awful and was anything but a joke though they would call it such - admittedly they were in their early teens in a boarding school, and this is an adult male in charge of a giant room and ambiance thereof.

Good on Will.

Punching someone is never the answer. Will has always been the "peace" guy. Hypocritical. He could react with negativity towards Chris without this horrible act.

I firmly believe we’re all hypocrites. In my experience, in such cases people never quite get it through their skulls how traumatic such jokes are until they can feel it. It’s Chris’ right to make the joke (I don’t condone censorship) and Will’s right to respond as he sees fit.

I take it you’d rather she and Will both swallowed it. Been there, heard that.

The punch does look a bit unnatural, but I think that might just be because they are camera-conscious people.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

Will was simping hard last night.

And props to Chris. That man can take a slap.

He could blast Chris during the break and ask him to publicly apologize to Jada. One of a million different ways he could act.

If we have a society which allows people to hit you when you say things they don't like (or worse, I don't know what you mean by 'as seems fit'), isn't this at least right next door to censorship, if not actual censorship?


Also, you can react to something you don't like in a myriad of ways before you hit them. He could have called him out from his seat. He could have slammed him in a press conference after the event. All things which may have garnered more universal sympathy for what a bad taste joke that was. But instead he hit Rock. Which will be an action likely to be hung around his neck for years. Which will almost certainly make him the butt of even more jokes. And which will cloud the inappropriateness of Rocks joke, possibly having the opposite effect of having Pinkett-SMith the butt of even more alopecia jokes, at least through association.

I do not disagree that he could. But it’s not the same. “Publicly apologise”, dear Lord, what did that ever do? There is a masochistic tendency to look classy when trying to react to disrespect so as not to “stoop to someone’s level”, I could never understand it. The person responsible for the insult usually couldn’t care less about the classiness of it.

Not to mention that had it been a non-pc joke about any of the social justice obsessions of the day, Will would have been lauded as a hero and Chris out of job with his reputation destroyed. I write this and find myself agreeing with the one of the above posts that yes, the hypocrisy is unthinkable.

I think it’s genuinely horrible that he said that, and the Smiths are well within their right to take offence.

I understand your point of view and respect that. I was here thinking: there are some things in our lives that can make us lose control. I can't understand how a "comedian" can react this way to a joke, but maybe it was too much for the guy to see his wife swallow it - I still disagree with his reaction and really hope Chris brings him to the court. Losing control doesn't take away his responsibilities.


I agree.

I don't know where you live, but my representatives in government are dangerously close to slapping each other on any given day so I'd prefer that this reaction not be normalized.

I just thought it was a hard slap/open hand smack and put Chris’s reaction (which I did also pick up on) down as top tier professionalism. No way was it staged with what he said afterwards either.

In London. Okay, I do see your point in that specific context. Although dear old British Parliament has historically been known for MPs getting rowdy, there’s not been (that I know of) any physical violence of this nature, but then again, there’s always a first time. And what a show that would be, with all the goings-on being televised!

Yes. 👏

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

In this climate, an international broadcast of physical violence at an awards ceremony is a very big deal. No matter the reasoning behind it.

Like if that's OK behavior for "high society" then we're all just royally screwed, aren't we?

Also for the record I hope Will Smith gets arrested for this, if any mere mortal behaved in such a way, say at a comedy club we’d be locked up but Smith does it in front of millions of people and nothing. More fool him this will forever tarnish his win.

LAPD said they’d only file a report if the affected party complains, so doesn’t look like it for now.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

If Smith was a white dude and slapped Rock's face, would he be allowed to receive the Oscar? Would he been arrested? Would he been allowed to continue there? It's just something for all of us to think. not trying to turn the conversation in white/black war here since I believe color shouldn't matter. But you know... woke Hollywood and SJWs are silent right now.

Yup, I was thinking that.

Will needs to get a couple tips from Juwan Howard on how to deliver a slap.

This, basically.

So many people have opinions based on nothing more than "I don't think that would look that way," with no real reason to think they really know how it would look. And, to be blunt, sometimes their idea of "how that should look" comes from TV and movies. How many people have you seen slapped across the face in real life? How many hundreds or thousands have you seen in TV shows and movies? IE: the places where they always react a normal way, almost always rub their cheek, etc.

I'm not sure why people think they can eyeball stuff and assess it like this. I guess everybody likes to think they've got a pretty good bead on the world, despite mounting evidence to the contrary everywhere.

Right, what we have here is a male millionaire slapping another in defense of "his" woman, and not only is he not escorted out of the building, he's literally awarded his profession's highest honor mere moments afterward. And then gives a half-apology that is more about how passionate he is. This is a terrible look for the Academy and sends a terrible message on many different levels. Male privilege, wealth privilege, etc. A PR nightmare, and I can't believe anyone thinks the Academy wanted this for "ratings".

I think it’s up to individuals to decide if they want to be better people. Endless self-improvement is more of a yoga cult by now, you can’t expect people to react to events based on what would make them better people in a progressive culture. It’s not exactly a top-priority consideration under duress/stress.

I agree that a line needs to be drawn. But this isn’t the first time Rock is making fun of Jada personally. He seems to just have a thing for making fun of her (read soft-bullying), which makes it even worse. It wasn’t random, it was an “Oh, let’s take the piss out of Jada again” kind of decision.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-...s-rock-oscars/

Also yes, she was “visibly upset”.

https://inews.co.uk/culture/film/was-will-smiths-slap-of-chris-rock-staged-why-his-response-to-jada-pinkett-smith-oscars-joke-seems-genuine-1543015

So much this.


People have a notion that how individuals handle their emotions is some universal thing, even though it is constantly shown not to be remotely the case.


It's the same error that leads people to think suspects are guilty of crimes they are entirely innocent of, simply because they didn't act how they think you are supposed to. "Why is that mother not sobbing uncontrollably? She must have been the one to have murdered her baby!" It's a fallacy that drives me nuts and is the cause of no end of bad situations.


In highly charged emotional situations people can behave in all sorts of unexpected ways. My friend laughs when he delivers bad news. I emotionally shut down and barely show any emotion at all, even though I'm someone who is so highly emotional I cry over songs and movies multiple times a week or even day.


Chris Rock was clearly in shock. Will Smith was clearly over come with rage. To expect them to have cut and dry emotions on their faces is to completely underestimate the complexity of being human.

Will wasn't. His initial, honest reaction was the same as everybody's - aside from Jada's - in that auditorium and the spirit in which the joke was clearly intended: her haircut is a similar style to Demi Moore's in a mostly forgotten 1997 movie that is generally only remembered at all because of said haircut. Jada rolled her eyes, Will and most everybody else chuckled. Seconds later he was avenging the honor of his wife as if she had been called a smelly whore.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

Yeah, and in some cases the way things were "off" was so subtle that it would be bizarre to script it that way.

After Rock was hit he said "That was the greatest night in the history of television." The phrasing there is wrong. Either it's the greatest thing or "this is the greatest night..." Same with "we're here to give a Documentary..." He's not a sputtering mess (like movies and TV might have us believe), and he's not perfectly stoic, because almost nobody can be in that situation. He tries to be tough and soldier on but is a bit shaken.

It also reminds me of how every single crime story that becomes high profile shows lots of "irregularities." As if those aren't there every time, as if anything looks exactly how it should (or how everybody thinks it should) when viewed up close and frame by frame. Every event is questionable, everything is a little funny or uncertain or confusing. That's life.

And if anyone's confused by the position of his hands and feet, I guess they've never experienced blocking. Stage direction is serious business and most people are just trying really hard not to screw up.

:beatty:

It's kind of amusing, really, that people ostensibly "seeing through" some alleged media ploy would be unconsciously using notions of behavior they got from media in the first place to determine what's plausible.

Makes perfect sense to me. Then he saw she was upset and that “triggered” him.

I think I understand what Will did and why he did it. Would I do the same? I'd certainly want to, but none of those things would make it or me right. He did the wrong thing and, like most very rich/powerful people who do the wrong thing (even in public) he'll more than likely get away with having done it. It is as it ever was.

You can throw all kinds of defenses for why he did it and that he should, but the truth is that it was wrong. Frankly, I'd have had more time for Jada going up there and doing it. It'd still be wrong, but at least she was the victim of the joke. This screams of that 'are you looking at my bird' mentality and makes me think this has more to do with something else than with what Chris said. You don't get the explosion from lighting a match, you get it from lighting the fuse.

Also, since when aren't you allowed to offend people? People have the right to be offended, that's their right, but people have the right to offend. It's only when that offense becomes illegal that there should be a problem and that is up to the lawmakers and (for the most part IMO) what they think will get them elected/re-elected or the people who lose money from actions such as boycotts.

For all the heat this will create, this is just something which happens thousands of times a day around the world. Someone said something he didn't like about 'his bird', so he lamped him. It's not big, it's not clever and it's not right. But, sadly, only the setting and the participants make it unusual.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

Clearly he was triggered. Just as clearly it was over something he knew was innocuous.

Well, for starters, when it comes to someone behaving in a criminal manner (assault) we can absolutely demand self improvement on how they behave. You don't hit people, unless it is in a case of self defence.


But outside of this situation, sure, I guess its true we can't force people people to be better people. But I know what leads to a garbage pit society, and it is one where we just start hitting people when we don't like something they did, and then shrugging our shoulders and saying 'but he was mad, why not?'


And for the record, if it hasn't already been stated, I hate Rock's joke. It was in poor taste and it was a lousy joke regardless of that. And his on stage defense of 'it was a GI Jane joke' is disingenuous. It was a 'bald woman' joke. A woman who has a condition and has been public about her struggle with it. I hate it.



But it's also just a joke. This doesn't mean jokes can't be cruel. Or they can't have a negative affect on a person. Or that people don't have every right to be outraged by a cruel or mean spirited joke. But the recourse to such things, if any, is to have people speak out against it. Make Rock potentially consider whether or not these kinds of jokes are worth it. In a society where we support free speech, we combat speech we don't like with better speech. It's an imperfect solution, but it is a hell of a lot better and more effective than what Will Smith did. Which accomplished exactly what? He just gave Rock another twenty minutes worth of material. Brilliant job there, Fresh Prince.

Right, and you can't ignore that this happened onstage at the Oscars, and on TV. Nothing about this was "normal", so why would their reactions be? If you slap me at a backyard barbecue, my response is going to be much different than when I'm on stage in a room full of my peers in tuxedos, knowing there's a TV audience of millions watching, and I'm the guy in charge of keeping the show on the rails.

This is a good line I've somehow never heard before that I'm sure I'll use in the future. :up:

Anyway, I get his impulse. While my rule is basically "yeah, no, you don't use physical violence for words," I have to admit there is some point at which someone could say enough about someone I loved that I might have to make an exception. And I think that's true of lots of people. It's just that point is way, way higher than one joke, particularly in the context of "we're all rich and famous and in the 98th percentile for attractiveness already so we get made fun of a bit." The pedantic philosopher in me wants to note that there's a limit to even "just words," I just don't think Rock came within 20 miles of it.

It's Pat!

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

That's a good point, I hadn't thought that maybe it was less "oh she's upset, I should defend her" and maybe more "oh she's upset, and I'm part of the reason." That can create a feeling of obligation to not just stand up for her, but to do so in such a strong way that it makes up for that initial reaction.

He was laughing to maintain appearances, like he referred to having to do often in this business. Once it became apparent she was genuinely hurt, he threw professionalism to the wayside and reacted truthfully.
What does Chris Rock have on his face right now? Fresh Prints.

Very much so.



I spent a lot of years as a bar rat. I've been in many heated confrontations. I've said bad things to people, people have said bad things to me, and I've engaged in an awful lot of shoving and threats when I was younger. I've behaved in ways that aren't very much in line with my stance in this thread. But in a bar, these things sort of come with the territory. It is more likely you act like expected in such a situation because bar and fight go together like hand in glove.



But I'm also someone who has had fights in classrooms when I was younger (never provoked by me, for the record), and those are a completely different kettle of fish. Because of your surroundings, its like you are fighting under water. You keep thinking 'I'm not supposed to be doing this, something doesn't make sense, I'm doing something I shouldn't be doing'. There is a lot of stunned silence and staring at eachother. Sometimes its not like you are even really fighting at all.



Now just magnify this so that it isn't just twenty classmates looking at you, but a large segment of the world. And you are in tuxedos.


No one knows how they would behave in that kind of situation. And Chris Rock's shocked expression reads as completely authentic to me. As Yoda mentioned, just listen to his choice of words when he first speaks. He is completely lost in the moment. He is just trying to say something to keep the show going, but it is a weird and mangled thing he says. One thing it doesn't read as is something that had been scripted or rehearsed. Not even remotely.

lol

A recycled meme?

I understand your point, but to me these are different. People will react the way they’ll react, but no one/nothing is preventing the thing from being said (I would only really see the latter as genuine censorship, though I agree that it’s not far off).

I think you’re right, but again, the point of hitting Rock isn’t to “garner sympathy” or, to put it crudely, “look good/ be in the right”. To me it’s about an emotional reaction; I think it’s kind of impressive on that level alone in a profoundly fake world. In an ideal scenario, yes, he could have come up with a brilliant impromptu freestyle that would wittily annihilate Rock, but we don’t really expect that, do we? That would have to be scripted (and even if it hadn’t been, it would look scripted enough to equally take away from the actual offence, which as we’ve agreed is not necessarily the point). There’s no winning here if you’ve been insulted. And I think once one understands that, pretty much anything goes.

Anyone recall that other Will Smith slap from 9 years ago

https://youtu.be/8cBRfjcY9SQ

“He’s lucky I didn’t sucker punch him” we believe you now Will..

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

Imagine how much differently this would have gone if he had just walked up and said right into Rock's lapel mic.

"Please apologize. That is not cool."

And then walked back to his seat visibly upset. Like they told me in grade school: use your words.

Yes and no. I definitely see that, but this relies on the other person having the decency to feel bad, which, I don’t know… Rock may well have gone, “Pah, you snowflakes”.

PR-wise, of course he should have done what you’re suggesting, there’s no denying that.

That’s what I’m saying. PR wise it’d be Rock in the hot seat, and Will would be getting a parade right now for his display of new age masculinity. But it’s “high” society. They too baked from getting lost in the tall grass.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

Everybody hates chris.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

If Smith had done as Mc - two C - Clane describes, and then Rock mocks Smith for the effort unable to recognize his place in the moment, then Rock would be the one getting the ugly coverage today. Smith would be lauded a hero one a few levels. First, for defending his wife. Second, though he laughed at the joke initially, one could argue that he then recognized HIS role in the ugly and chose to rise above it. Finally, by not literally assaulting another person (as a role model, whether he deserves it or even wants it or not), he would have honored for showing restraint and measure beyond baser emotions.

Oh well, Will.


Edit. I forgot the quote, but McClane landed it sooner.

While I get what you are saying about the world being profoundly fake (and it is), I still view what Will Smith did as little more than a different kind of posture. It's a posture to the world that he stands up for his wife. It's a posture to his wife, that he has her back. It's a posture to himself that he isn't some wuss and he's a real man (whatever the **** that means)



We can get super philosophical on this if we like, but nearly all human behavior, particularly in social situations, is a front. How we walk is a posture. The language we use is a posture. Our politics are a posture. We try and transmit who we believe ourselves to be, or who we want to be seen as, through gestures which are symbolically encoded to make others see us the way we want to be seen. Me writing this response to you is a front. Society itself is a front. This isn't to say we can't have important and deeply held beliefs beneath these postures, but the way we peacock them to the world is always deeply suspect.



Are the nice dresses and pleasantries of an awards ceremony where elite people pat themselves on the back nauseating formalities? Yup yup yup yup. And do I kind of like things that disrupt that a bit. Sure, as much as the next misanthrope. But regardless of any of this, I'll take the society that is full of stupid, nauseating formalities that doesn't slap people in the face just because some empty sense of honour was infringed upon. By a comedian. On a stage. Making fun of a bunch of rich people and all of this pompous nonsense.



Ultimately, Jada Pinkett will survive. Will Smith will survive. And yes, even Chris Rock will survive. But what is being learned from this kind of behaviour, moves us one step closer towards a society that might not be all that much fun surviving in.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

I've deleted a few posts. This situation bears no relationship to Ukraine and I can't think of a single reason to use such a provocative example for something as simple as a simile.

Thank you! Exactly.

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

Yesterday I kept asking, if this was fake then what was the point?
The only thing I could come up with was... to create media buzz?
Now, if it WAS fake, and the goal was to create media buzz... then it turned out to be a wildly successful venture! ;)

Re: Uncensored video of Will Smith and Chris Rock at the Oscars
 

I find "to create buzz" as an explanation a lot more plausible when a) the people involved clearly need the buzz and b) the people involved have a plausible chance of coming off well.

Neither is coming off well (and it's hard to imagine how they could've expected to), and both of them are already insanely rich and successful and at the top of their respective professions. So apart from the various ways in which it doesn't look scripted, I don't think even the standard "you're talkin' about it, aren't you???" motivation exists here.