When do you think superhero films will die?
 

Question that's been on my mind quite a bit recently

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

Hopefully soon, but I doubt it as they're an outgrowth of the video gaming generation...so I think they will be around for a long while.

Theater's will die before Super Hero films

As long as the retards and ****wits that support this bull**** continue seeing them, they will never die.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

There are some films that many people don't realize are based on comics like "Road to Perdition" or "Ghost World." But you asked about superhero films. I think they will be around for a while because studios are looking for concepts with name recognition in hopes of securing major ticket sales. But the linking of multiple single character films may run its course.

Hard to say. It's a phenomenon to me because you have grown men buying the tickets. Seems like ever since Sayles, Mamet and Tarantino scripts started getting more exposure the studios spiced up their writing team against a backdrop of a winning formula that appeals to all ages. As silly as it is, and as empty as it often is - I can't hate on the concept as much as what actually ends up happening on screen. I stay away but am curious as to whether or not I'd enjoy some of them. By the time I find out, I believe superhero films will be dead.

Hopefully never. I love going to see Marvel Studios' flicks. I can enjoy them with my wife, and I can enjoy them with my little seven year old nephew. They're fun ways to spend two hours at the movies. I'm looking forward to Avengers Endgame and Captain Marvel, as well as Shazam, Dark Phoenix, and any others I'm missing. :)

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

I think that in order to keep superhero movies fresh they need to really up their game now, since I keep seing same old same old, since The Avengers.

People say that The Dark Knight took the superhero genre to a whole new level, and if that's true, because of all the superhero movies we've had lately, which is a lot, I think we need another Dark Knight, that actually takes it to a new level to continue on.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

Never, and guess what? Doesn't bother me at all.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

I am in the camp of saying hopefully soon (maybe a little die off after the Avengers wrap up?), but they still pull in massive amounts of money, even when compared to their budget most of the time. I probably wouldn't be watching any of them if I didn't have a movie theater subscription.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

When they stop making money, which might be never or at least not in our lifetimes.

I've avoided watching most of them myself since I'm not especially interested in Sci-Fi/Fantasy stuff, but I do plan to watch Joker when it comes out.

Haven't seen Aquaman or Captain Marvel yet, but I do often watch most of the superhero movies... and some of the TV shows. I usually find I prefer the TV series because sometimes the showrunners aren't afraid to be more original or weird, or more R-rated. I'm tired of the whole "monstrous, giant villain wrecking stuff and planning to destroy the world" plotline, and maybe the TV series don't entirely deviate from that... but at least you might find more unexpected twists and deeper character development because there's more time to spend on the story than a 2.5 hour movie.

I tend to think Marvel's popularity over the last decade is rather different to a lot of the superhero films we'd seen previously. Really its not based nearly as much on previous popularity of their characters, the general public don't really know Ironman, Thor, Black Widow, etc and whilst Capt America is a bit better know he was considered rather cheesey.

What I think Marvel have done well is tie the popularity of rising stars to their franchise, if people want to see Downey Jnr or Chris Evan's in blockbuster they want to see them playing those characters. Its more akin to the way actors post Connery(and even he took awhile to build up his status outside of the role) ended up tied to Bond. So I think it might well be a case of waiting until you see a different generation of stars rise although of course Marvel are looking to carry on doing the same thing with the next generation.

Marvel does offer a good deal of variety between its films stylistically but still there is I think a general similarity when it comes to larger than life personas and a lot of comic dialog. Maybe a change will come when people tire of this and we saw see a shift towards something else? the early/mid 00's for example seemed to have more blockbusters that took themselves more seriously with less comedy. Again though it could be Marvel shift to star with any shifts in taste, one of their main strengths is how adaptable they are compared to a lot of franchises.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

I think many forget another major part of these films. The technology finally exists to make them work. People have been wanting and trying to make these forever. For everybody that negs "superhero/comic" movies, enjoy your little indie that gets bankrolled by the cash-machine.


Cuz if Venom bought some exec a small Polynesian island, not in our lifetime.

I don't know about this. I mean the first two Superman movies from 1978 and 1980, were great and beat a lot of the ones today. I would put Superman (1978), in my top ten superhero movies of all time, but something like Aquaman, or Spider-man: Homecoming, I found to be forgettable in comparison.

I agree with Ironpony, some of the original 'superhero films' were great like Superman 1 & II, The first couple Batman movies and films like that. But those films felt a lot different than the current crop of superhero films that to me seem more like a fantasy video game brought to the big screen. If people like them that's fine. People like eating deep friend pork rinds too, but no one ever said that was fine cuisine.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

I think I like big video game fantasy effects as long as it has some of that older superhero magic. The first Iron Man, and the first The Avengers movie captured that well I think, but it hasn't been equaled since in my opinion.

In what way are they that?

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

It gon be awhile

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

More seriously, though, I do think it might be peaking. Not because people aren't going to keep being really interested, but because they're particularly invested in these characters and they're obviously going to have to go through a lot of narrative upheaval soon, and it's going to be tough for as many people to buy right back in to a new phase/team, even with a lot of holdovers.

The other thing that works for superheroes stories is streaming sites, where they can be presented in different ways in terms of story or approach. For example: Legion was a bit unconventional in subject matter and its presentation and it got an audience. In fact unconventional plots or treatment will be key now. We saw that in Spiderverse movie, as well.

There are more avenues for superhero stories to branch out in. So, they won't simply rely on the box office.

Actually, I do not regard characters like Thor, Hellboy and the ones in Guardians of the Galaxy as "superheroes", they are more like "general" fantasy characters: They feel more like the Orcs in Warcraft rather than like "Batman".

To me Marvel Cinematic Universe's movies feel more like fantasy movies, they have a similar taste to the modern crop of immersive open world action-adventure videogames. They are not "superhero" movies like Superman, Spider Man and Batman movies were but something else. I guess that Captain Marvel feels more like a traditional superhero.

I guess that Avenger's Endgame will see the peak popularity of this specific comic book movie genre, it might gross like 2.5 billion and will never be equalled by a superhero movie again. From this point on it will decline and other blockbuster genres will rise (kinda like the rise and fall of Western, Pirate movies or Star Wars space opera stuff).

I know a lot of people say the general public didn't know the characters before the movies, but it's really not true. The general public didn't know the storylines from the comics. Characters like Spidey, Captain America, Hulk, Thor, Iron Man and even the X-Men (to a lesser degree) have been in cartoons and video games, toys and on clothes for some time.

Whether you were impressed with the Reeve Superman films probably depends on when you saw them. As a kid watching the first two in the late 70s and early 80s, I was impressed. On one hand, it doesn't seem fair to compare their special effects to those of today's films. On the other hand, I remember thinking while watching "Justice League," that I often didn't believe the characters were actually where they were. The backgrounds seemed fake. Perhaps I wouldn't have thought that as a kid, though. Any opinions on that?

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

It is time to die, it will die :p

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

Honestly, I think it's the perfect formula. I don't think they'll ever die. It's kinda like asking, "when will the action genre die?"

I personally knew the stories of X-Men, Batman, Superman, Hulk, and Spider Man's stories before the movies came out from watching the cartoons.

I heard about characters like Flash, Aquaman, Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor but to me, they were very underground and felt to me more like characters you were supposed to mock. Kinda like Space Ghost and Aqua Teen Hunger Force type of characters. While I had never heard of Captain Marvel, Antman, Wasp, Guardian of the Galaxy before the movies came out.

The Marvel movies have established the tradition of making huge blockbusters out of relatively mocked or unknown characters. Aquaman's hit movie now is the same for DC. I think that is a nice development since it shows people are being able to take seriously something that previously they were unable to emphasize with and so had to mock.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

Man, listening to people discuss superhero movies who never read comic books is like listening to people discuss religious movies who never read the Bible (or Torah, Koran, Bhagavad Gita, etc.) ;)

Addendum: this is by no means a put down - it's just a different perspective from hearing discussions among those who are familiar with the "original" source material in its original form.

If it takes that kind of reasoning then OK, no problem. I'm sure people will. Or, maybe a few dr's or lawyers or penny stocks (lol) financed the more enjoyable film experience. That more enjoyable experience being escape and transcendence rather than being clubbed over the head with transparent manipulation. I guess I have more respect for the sneakier hustle than I do the obvious one.

I've been thinking lately that the collapse of cinema as we know it will go hand in hand with the collapse of the Superhero movie. What I mean is where are those big box office returns gonna come from, kids movies only? Nolan/Cameron films?

We already are seeing and will continue to see the merging of cinema/TV/streaming to a point where we will get new releases direct to our homes.

We are also at the point of seeing too many reboots/regurgitation of already told stories with far too little time in between, even mildly successful franchises like Fantastic 4 have a failed reboot, the excellent X-Men movies have even come full circle back to basically a remake of Last Stand. Several Spiderman's in 12 years? Batman about to follow suit.

The major stress test will be what happens post Avengers Endgame.

Or maybe dummies will keep paying $$$ for this ****.

You got my ear, I'd like to hear your perspective as a comic book guy on the current crop of superhero films. BTW are we calling any movie based on comic book characters superhero films? I'm not, I don't consider V for Vendatta to be anywhere near the same league as Wonder Woman or the current crop of superhero films.

I repped you, but I have no idea what you just said but it sounded good:p

Agreed...and I'll add: Netflix will be a huge player in new releases in the coming years. Especially when Disney launches it's own streaming service and a huge number of titles under Disney's control are pulled from Netflix.

Sadly, I'm not all that familiar with the more recent films - I only got up to "Civil War" in the Avengers franchise - I realize it was part of the Captain America series, but it was an Avengers movie. (I'd really like to see them all someday.)

A lot of comic-based movies are not superhero films (such as Road to Perdition).

Then there's superhero films vs the relatively newer superhero team movies (which require some very different dynamics).

So, when you don't consider "V" in the same league as Wonder Woman, are you saying V was that much better or that much worse?

I always wonder what viewers of Watchmen (another story written by Alan Moore - author of "V") was like as a cinematic experience for those who had no knowledge of the comics? The comic itself was an insider's nod to comic fans as the characters were all thinly veiled copies of characters from a company called Charlton that had been acquired by DC and turned into a story overlaid with political / social commentary in a reality like ours but where masked mystery men & superheroes were real. And then the movie, except for a couple major changes, ran like a frame by frame copy of the comic - which in and of itself was written and drawn more like a movie storyboard than the typical comic. I knew all this going in, so I find the concept intriguing what someone thought of the movie who'd never seen the comic. Did it come off as unique, an extrapolation of what most people thought comics were like, or just as something bizarre?

V was much, much better. We've talked about that movie before. I thought it was ground breaking in it's treatment of the subject matter, and it's beautifully written syntax and it's deeply felt study of humanistic responses to conditioning.

I kinda liked Wonder Woman except for the superhero fighting scenes (go figure:p), which is why I earlier compared Super Hero films to first person video games. Oh, I really liked Road to Perdition too.

Usually, people use the words "comic book movie" and "based on a graphic novel" to distinguish between superhero movies and movies that are adapted from "graphic novels". V is a movie based on a graphic novel while Amazing Spider Man is a "comic book movie".

There are, actually, many more movies based on non-superhero comics than movies based on superhero comics if you take into account all the Asian movies based on manga like Oldboy. In fact, there are even more live action movies based on manga than anime movies: Japan makes like 200 movies adapted from manga per year.

I watched the movie and read the comic years later. I noticed how faithful the movie was to the comic. Overall, Watchmen, the movie, is still is my favorite superhero movie and Watchmen, the comic, is my favorite English language-original graphic novels. I thought Watchmen, the movie, was very powerful and I even (heretically) think that some of the changes they made from the comic actually improved it over the comic.

My favorite comic book movies in the broad sense are, of course, Miyazaki's movies that were adapted from graphic novels (Nausicaa and Porco Rosso).

Whew! For a minute there I thought you might be saying that V didn't compare to Wonder Woman! ;) I know V doesn't get a lot of love on this board, but I thought it was a great movie - I'm probably due to read the comic again as I only read it once back in college in the 80's (and don't think I appreciated it as much as I might now).

Yes - so many of the superhero movies just look like video games in the action scenes and fairly undecipherable ones at that - WW was a good example of that (along with the clips I've seen from Justice League and several others).

I'd agree - especially about the conclusion of Watchmen.
I'm usually a stickler for sticking to the source material, but having Dr. Manhattan be the "false flag" just made so much sense in the movie (as opposed to the alien octopus) it makes me wonder why Moore didn't think of it for the series. I usually don't like when creators try to tie so much of a story back into itself (like having every villain be tied into a hero's origin), but in this case it worked better with the story and had a lot more irony than Ozymandias' "alien" conspiracy from the comics.

(Still wonder about why they changed Rorschach's killing of the child-killer - except maybe because in the comics, his act of justice was very similar to a scene in the original Mad Max movie?)

I didn't mind the changes in V because it seemed the film makers wanted to make it an allegory for a post 9/11 world - so I felt those changes worked for that purpose (much like the update to Iron Man's origin - making his kidnappers middle eastern terrorists of the 21st century as opposed to the Viet Cong of the 60's). Still, V probably could have worked just as well if it stuck to the source material - it just would have been a different type of allegory.

This does clearly feel different to the likes of Superman, Batman and Spiderman in the past were the popularity of the films seemed tied more into the existing popularity of the characters. If anything these days I would say that such characters seem to have a more limited appeal by themselves as DC have had several disappointing films at the box office featuring big names.

Again it does feel to me that the appeal of Marvel(and more recently DC) is more creating a certain fantasy world and linking it into rising star actors. I mean I'm far from an expert on Marvel Comics but my impression is that a lot of these characters are not wholey "off the page" but rather have a strong mix of the actors persona. I don't think Marvel could just recast Ironman and expect to have anything like the same appeal as Downey Jnr playing the character.

It seems to me that really there are two ways we could see the end of the "Marvel era", either we see the decline of that specific franchise in favour of another or we see the decline of franchise film making generally. Not sure the latter is going to happen anytime soon and the former there doesn't seem like an obvious candidate, Starwars had the potential but I think they've managed to rather poison the well there annoying large sections of the fanbase.

I read this about 3 or 4 times and :shrug: :suspicious: :skeptical:



I was saying the popcorn movies always pay for the cheese and wine movies. Yet it seems popcorn movies get shht on by the cheese and wine crowd, even though the popcorn movie is what keeps the cheese and wine lights on.

I've often heard people say popular films financially support more artistic ones. But doesn't every film have its own budget? I mean, are there a lot of independent films that lost money and had to be subsidized with the profits of successful ones? And aren't there are a fair number of indie film companies that don't make mainstream films? (These are not entirely rhetorical questions. I'd really like to hear others' take on these.)

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

As previously mentioned, the question is akin to asking "When will X genre die off?". Much like every cinematic genre that has existed since the dawn of cinema, you will notice (often retrospectively) some pioneers and gradually a bloom of films that popularize the concept. What follows is saturation of the market and gradually we arrive at a bottleneck effect during which only a handful of these films get made. It has been the case with pretty much every niche film category so far. I am confident that if someone were to plot this, the result would look very much like a Bell curve. I am purposefully excluding the basic building blocks of storytelling, drama and comedy.

Gangster films, Courtroom dramas, Sword and Sorcery, Slashers, Noir (now packaged as neo-noir), Monster flicks etc fit the bill. It is nothing we haven't seen before as an audience. We just happen to be smack down in the middle of the spring of superhero films with saturation creeping in to many fans already. The difference in this case is the popularity the endeavor has enjoyed (mainly in the MCU) and there is a good reason for that. The MCU has something going for it that no series of films have had to my knowledge.

The story is told over a vast number of films with serious regards to continuity. Thus, once you exit the movie theater, even if you are not completely satisfied with the result you are more inclined to go see the next film because this is just a chapter of a larger story. When was the last time you stopped reading a book you originally enjoyed because 2-3 chapters in a row seemed to go in a direction you didn't care for? Chances are you will stick with it till the end (which in the case of the MCU is Endgame) because you are already invested in it. This differs heavily from other franchises who have made a considerable number of films, because you are following a well-laid out plan. You are not just capitulating the success of one film and saying "lets make a sequel".

So no, superhero films will not be extinct. We possess the technology to make decent ones happen. Even once Marvel loses its allure and thins out its releases, they will still be around in smaller numbers. I can imagine a similar conversation had at any point in the previous century with a different genre in mind. But even if you were frustrated with amount of Westerns that came out in the 30s, surely you wouldn't object to it having for instance 5-10 films released per year as it happens nowadays.

Genres do not die off: they slow down, lose their appeal, get reinvented, evolve and do it all over again. Given the vast pool of different cinematic taste, once audiences have seen something, there will always be a market for it.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

If it happens it won’t be anytime soon. With Captain Marvel nearing one billion, even average superhero movies are scoring high amounts of money, including venom and aqua man. Even with the cookie cutter films, every now and then we get a surprise like Logan, Deadpool, black panther, or Thor ragnarok.

The cheese and wine movie fans tend to hate popcorn movies because they are much more popular and so they develop a resentment towards those popular movies. And then they start rationalizing things by saying that they do not like movies that are "stupid" and try to "manipulate" you: it is more of an attempt to attack popular movies because they are popular rather than any sincere criticism.

It reminds me of Tarkovsky's "criticism" of Apocalypse Now which he said was awful and that he sleept over it, which was his resentment of the popularity that Hollywood movies get relative to his more obscure movies. I wonder what Tarkovsky would think about the Avengers movies. :D

I know. I got ya the first time ;P

I'm basically saying that a lot of smaller films that I find superior to blockbuster Comic Book movies were financed by entities outside of the studio system. Kind of a common thing, this. And that I prefer these kinds of films because even though drama is a manipulator in story form, it's more subdued done right, and not some see thru obviousness - like the big comic book monkey movies. I said monkey movies. You scratch your head and eat bananas while watching them.

Because you are just focusing on the studios and not the exhibitors.

Siddon, you may be right about that where theaters in more urban cities are concerned. But I live in a more middle class, somewhat rural area where the major releases are competing for screen time. Independent films are only available on video, cable or streaming or at the local libraries.

Where do you live

Apoc Now is hardly what I would call a popcorn film even if it did quite well at the box office, in that case(and his dislike of 2001) I think its more that Tarkovsky had quite a narrow idea of what he thought film should be. I mean if you look at his favourite films and its not really deliberately obscurist, stuff like Ugetsu or Woman of the Dunes was quite successful for more challenging cinema as well.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

I dunno!

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

I live in a small town in eastern Ohio.

When do you think superhero films will die?

Never. Superman's immortal.

I do, not every time but it depends on how far south it's gone. I do the same for any series I watch. For instance, I stopped watching Attack On Titan (an anime) because it was too emotionally manipulative. I was being shown from the beginning that it'd mainly be concerned with how often I cried as opposed to how well the story played out.
As for the MCU, I stopped at Infinity War because I was being shown that the characters I've been watching for a decade have devolved into plot devices and I don't want to watch that.
Sure, I could be "missing out on when it gets good," but I also prefer not to sit through a bunch of nonsense because it "might get better," like a toxic relationship. Watching people refuse to use the amazing abilities they have to get out of a certain situation for the sake of a sequel is not fun to watch.
I'm actually working on a video about Infinity War right now (Ami Scythe ;)) so I'm not gonna write my entire script again lol. I agree with everything you said but I'm still throwing in the towel.

Soon I hope.

:cool:

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

Considering they've been around since the 1970s, probably never?

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

Yeah, I don't think they will die...maybe eventually go through a dormant period, but they are not gonna die anytime soon. The reason is when new superheroes hit the comics, they are gonna be destined to make the big screens one way or another. So don't expect the superhero genre to die out.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

I can see superhero films hitting a slow period,but I don’t see them ever reaching true death. I mean, westerns still come out lol

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

When DC and Marvel stops...

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

Not soon enough

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

Superhero movies themselves will never die, because it's a genre.

The superhero craze will definitely die, not for a while thought.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

I don't think my local theater is going to play Long Shot this weekend because they are stuffed full of Avengers showings....:bored:

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

I feel that the last three superhero movies I saw were too much the same. Wonder Woman I thought was considerably good, but I felt that the two that followed, that I saw, Black Panther and Aquaman both copied Wonder Woman it feels like. There is a world that exists in a another dimension, or underwater, or in a hidden African land that no one can find, etc, where there is a magical society that wants to help the world, and these worlds all have monarchy type societies where the superhero is the King, or Princess of that world. So it feels like it's been getting tired and been there, done that, for me.

In fact Wonder Woman is also very similar to Thor, so I guess it's not so original either, but I felt it was better than the two that followed it.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

Probably not in the next decade since pop culture merchandise is going strong and a lot of people especially kids are being hooked as new geeks of the genre.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

mid 2020s

I don't wish for superhero movies to go away completely, some of my favorite movies are superhero movies, but I just wish that the mainstream movies would evolve into something different, superhero movies have overstayed their welcome, in my opinion. The problem, I think, is that if superhero movies goes away they're just going to be replaced by something equally as tiring, and something that has the same trademark, and is owned by Disney.

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

But.... superheroes never really die?

=\

Re: When do you think superhero films will die?
 

tbh i have had enough of superhero films, althought i enjoyed the ending of the Avengers saga, but enough is enough, i want my favorite genre to come back to life, the Drama romance thriller