Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

Guess I'll take a chance on mentioning the attack.

Anyone want to talk about it, or just vent, express your fears, speculate, offer prayers & condolences?

It's heartbreaking. I thought I had become desensitized to all these shootings, but just watched a video taken when the shooting began and nearly cried. Obviously RIP to the dead and my condolences to the injured and to the most likely huge number of people traumatized by this event.

Fear and Loathing indeed... This was terrible beyond imagination... so many fatalities... and this guy was a quarter mile away! How did he hit so many people? I assumed at first the concert was taking place at the base of the hotel and he was just shooting down at heads but now that I see diagrams of the location is fully a quarter mile away across the street into the next block.

Of course the big question will be how did he get his hands on a fully automatic weapon. my guess is you can get a hold of one fairly easily if you really want one or you can adjust a semi auto. Either way, thats a problem and its kinda sick that there are businesses right on The Strip where tourists can go to pay to be able to take target practice with fully automatic weapons just like his. But Ill leave it at that. Nows the time for helping the hurt and mourning the dead as a united country. Im sure petty squabbling and political nonsense will break out soon enough but today I say my sincerest condolences for those who lost family members and loved ones in this tragedy... my heart aches for you all...

I am actually scheduled to go to Vegas this Saturday so this jolted me when I woke up this morning. Especially since we (my work) have people already on site there and there was a mad scramble to make sure everyone was accounted for this morning. Everyone is fine but what an environment to be flying into... My hope is Ill be able to do something to help once I get out there but I cant imagine what at that point...

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

It seems like every couple years somebody "breaks the record."

I was thinking about that, then some guy on CNN said the same thing - he pointed out that not giving the shooter attention wasn't as big a deal as constantly talking about "records, largest numbers, greatest mass casualty event, etc." - because there are psychos out there who just like the idea of breaking records.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

Not that it's anything new, but it's excruciating how much can one person do.

They're calling for blood donations if you are able.

I was also shocked to read about the extent of fatalities and injured this morning, and I had no idea he was 1/4 mile way. Far out. How does a guy in a retirement village get a weapon like that.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

I only heard of this attack 30 minutes ago. Horrible! The attack begs the question...what can be done about this? Gun control? Media control? I mean it's just a horrible thing.

Do we know for sure it was a fully auto weapon? I don't have TV service so I haven't heard that.

I've read it was, and to my ears certainly sounds like one. Incessant shooting for 10 minutes straight. Freaking terrifying.

Thanks, I tried to find something on the internet about it, and I read something very similar to that. But I'm wondering if the police have released info on the type of weapon that was used? I mean is it official confirmed to be an auto rifle or is that still up in the air? anyone?

I dont know anything about guns so if I saw what type it would have bypassed me. Just amazed someone of his age could get any gun when he's living in a retirement home. And I dont know yet if he killed himself or the police shot him.
Why, just why. Shaking my head. And at a country music festival where people are just having some laid back fun? Unbelievable.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

I dont think theyve officially declared anything yet. Probably wise considering how early it is and that some things are logical but unconfirmed speculation. I do know that the police said he had "more than 10 weapons" in that hotel room with him and everyone I know that knows anything about guns when they heard the recordings said THATS an automatic weapon. and that the reason they caught him was because he had been firing so much that the smoke from his weapon set off the fire alarm in his room which allowed the swat team to hone in on his room in a hotel with 3,000 rooms in it. He was also a high stakes gambler and a country music fan so do with that what you will...

You're right. I just talked to my mom who's been watching news all day. It was fully automatic weapons. The news said he had 10 automatic weapons! in his hotel room that he had converted (some or all?) into fully auto, from semi auto. And he ended up shooting himself.

Just sw this on breaking news cnn

I said in shout the last thing I saw before I went to bed was 3 fatalities. Woke up to this news. Really shocked me.

.223 caliber, that might be the AR-15 assault rifle.

.308 caliber, that might be an SKS assault rifle based on the Soviet AK47

Those are just guesses. Both are very extremely deadly weapons.

I dont want to get into the gun debate but just curious how the AWB wasnt renewed over there?

Wish I could donate blood. 515 wounded last I saw.

For some reason it always p's me off when they kill themselves.
It's like I can almost sympathize with someone who wants to kill themselves - but go off in the woods and do it, jump off a bridge, or pop a couple bottles of pills - in other words, do it in such a way that you're not likely to hurt anyone else. But if you're just going to kill yourself anyway, why kill other people first? What's the point? What is the great expectation of satisfaction supposed to be if you're then going to be dead anyway?

Not to detract from this story - but there was this guy I went to high school with - he was depressed or whatever, broke up with his girlfriend, etc. so he decides to off himself... he drives his car at top speed into a very crowded intersection at rush hour (where the road he was on ends at a "T," intersecting with a cross road where cars are either going straight both ways or turning onto the road he was on)!
He's still alive and in prison for the rest of his life, but he ended up killing a young man at random - a legal immigrant from Africa, driving home from his job, married with kids!
If the suicidal guy just wanted to kill himself, why not drive his car into a wall in a deserted alley? (there's plenty of spots like that to be found). The fact that he chose a crowded intersection crosses the line from despondent to evil because he premeditated injuring or killing others at random in his suicide attempt.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

I first want to express my condolences to the victims and their families. This is a horrible tragedy. I encourage anyone of faith to pray for those affected by this tragedy. And for those who are not, a trip to donate blood might be in order to deal with the numerous amount of injured individuals.

As for what I have heard so far there is a lot here that is kinda odd for mass shooters. We don't know the motive yet and the guy's background adds more questions then answers.

This guy is not described as being political or a gun guy, but he is firing what sounds like a full auto weapon from the balcony of his casino hotel room. Full auto weapons are hard as hell to get your hand on legally, and you have to know people to get that stuff on the black market or the Dark Web. And truth be told they are almost never used in crime. Now it has happened before. In LA in the 90's Phillips and Mătăsăreanu robbed banks in North Hollywood using weapons converted to full auto. But they were very familiar with firearms and had rap sheets. We have no such info on this shooter.

ISIS claims responsibility, but the FBI has found no ties at this point to terrorism. So unless he had a Quran or called 911 claiming he is ISIS like in The Pulse shooting, ISIS is blowing smoke up our ass. In addition this guy is old ass hell. Generally people like this are young. The guy has no know politics, was not a gun nut, all we know is his daddy was a bank robber, and he likes to gamble.

Questions that need answering. Where did he get the guns, how did he get them into his gun-free zone casino hotel, what was his motive. For all we know the guy snapped due to a health concern or he wanted a way out from crippling gambling debts. Ultimately the feds are going to get those answers.

The "Assault Weapon" ban sunset in 2004 under George W Bush.

From the shots I heard on a video, it sounds like full auto fire. The Assault Weapons Ban did not cover full auto weapons. They just called semi auto firearms with standard capacity mags "assault" weapons despite the fact that an assault rifle requires full auto fire.

Machine guns have been highly regulated since the Federal Firearms Act of 1938 and have not been in manufacturer for civilians since the 1980s. Legal full auto weapons have skyrocket in price since those laws passed and are in the price range of several tens of thousands or even hundred thousand dollar plus range. Most people are only able to fire them by renting them from ranges under supervision.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

Not to go off topic as well, but I hate that the media and certain members of the political elite are trying to shift focus away from a national tragedy to score political points. We don't have a final death count or even a motive for this mass murder and yet I wake up this morning to mass speculation and hand twirling by people trying to fit the shooter into the category that fits with their political opponents.

We all need to stay calm, mourn the dead, and let the authorities find out what happened and how it happened.

ISIS has been known to be an "equal opportunity exploiter" i.e., they've claimed responsibility for a number of mass murders that were never linked back them or even their influence.

This brings up another thing I've been wondering whenever we hear these claims that ISIS or some other terror group has claimed responsibility - how does the media get these reports that "ISIS has claimed responsibility" - I mean: who does ISIS call? Do they call news networks, the FBI? How does anyone who takes the call know it's actually ISIS and not some punk making a prank call? Can they trace the call? What's the difference between an "actual" claim of responsibility or anyone randomly going on YouTube or some other site and typing "ISIS has claimed responsibility"?

Well first and foremost the media lies through it's teeth on just about every topic. The idea of truth in journalism is dead. Only the headlines, click bait, views, and people tuning into TV matter. But not the truth.

As for ISIS I know they try to groom attackers through social media and the internet, but to what degree I am not certain. I am no terrorism expert.

Normally I think it's sensational reporting or lazy journos taking it off social media before investigating because they want to be the first to cover it, but in this case I think the fbi chief disputed it before the media even mentioned it. I saw on a report last night the claim was BS but this morning it;s ll over the net that it's isis. Usual hysterics.

Gun control was rampant here. He was shooting full auto (very illegal without a crap ton of legal paperwork and background checks) in a gun free zone over looking a concert. That won't do anything other then give certain politicians something to gripe about.

Media control I don't think will help aside from not running the guy's face 24 hours a day, but good luck getting CNN, MSNBC and Fox News to stop that. Their media empires are crumbling with the rise of the internet. They have to run these stories to get any sort of traffic.

Truth be told man is a curious creature. We as humans are capable of the most altruistic behavior as well as the most base and horrifying acts of cruelty. Today we are witness to man's dark side.

Indeed. Just another reason why I hate the media.

Oh yes, and the modern inability of the masses to read.

One final angry lash out at a world they believe has wronged them maybe?

A sniper rifle can fire at something 4.5 miles away. A quarter of a mile is nothing.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

I just hope no one says "There's gun control in Chicago" -- yeah, but 5 miles away, there isnt!

I agree. We've had someone like that in our lives for 2 years blaming the directors of our company for his life going to sht through his own actions. Would not surprise me in the least if he gets his hands on illegal guns and goes postal. All of the partners in the company have had to live with constant threatening nd mentally disturbed behaviour and we all have cctv for the first time in our lives. Not fun watching someone fall apart, but the self absorption of taking it out on innocents out enjoying music and friendships. I cant imagine the trauma those who survived will go through forever after this.

But a full auto weapon would suck as a sniper rifle. sniper rifles are designed for carefully scoping out a single target in the hands of a trained marksman. This guy was spraying a crowd in the dark from a quarter mile away. I seriously doubt he was aiming at all.

Part of the casualty level can be chalked up to having a sea of 22,000 people caught in a fenced in pen for a while before they trampled the fences to get out (I mean if you think about it 58 out of 22,000 fish in a barrel isnt a great percentage thank goodness). Maybe more might be due to people actually running into fire since they couldnt really tell where it was coming from. And who knows how many people might have been trampled to death in the chaos...

And that thought had me freaking out earlier. Horrific to contemplate.

We will find out.

As for the full auto guns, the ATF is in the works. I will pretty much rule of these things being legal. Either he stole them somehow or he got himself a source for the weapons.

Until then we are in a waiting game until they get more info.

It overtly has nothing to do with the shooting, but the shooter's father, Benjamin Hoskins Paddock, was a bank robber during the 60s/70s.

I read that he had them legally. Will see if I can find it. And how did he get 10 guns into a casino - dont they have security on entry? Maybe highrise near public parks should. OK might be a kneejerk reaction but how expensive is it to install metal detectors.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

Yeah I saw that. Unless they can proof genetic traits of history of sociopathic behavior, it is at least an interesting tidbit. Not unless his kept in contact with relatives of his daddy who may have stayed the crime game somehow.

I need a source for the machine guns being legal. The media is so piss poor at saying what type of gun was used. I would wait for the ATF report after the investigation. Now the non full auto weapons I can see him legally owning.

As for the metal detectors, those won't be expensive to install. But I bet the cost of people not going to a casino because of said metal detectors seeing it as a minor hassle due to having to go through what would be airport security every time you go out to eat or a show would be a huge loss.

You’re right. I was just making the point of how terrifying it is that these rifles can fire such distances. 4.5 miles in Manhattan would be 85 blocks north to south, which is an amazing distance to shoot a rifle.

I volunteer at a food pantry, which is held in the basement of our cathedral. Last week we had a Serbian refugee come down who got very very pissy because we couldn’t find his paperwork. I am going to ask our boss lady if we have a protocol in place for someone who comes down with a gun. Do we immediately call 911 or do we call the security guard who works upstairs getting our “customers” into line?

Yeah comes back to what I said earlier about lazy journos. Every time there is so much misinformation.

As for comment re:metal detectors, airport security etc in your post, I'd rather go through the minor inconvenience. I remember all the hoohaa when xrays and face recognition came in along with random bomb detection tests. Doesnt bother me at all if it stops all this insanity. We actually had that here recently with an airport scare. The biggest problem was not the inconvenience but the massive queues waiting to get in through security. Any lunatic with a gun, knife, bomb or van could have been waiting for sitting ducks.
(sorry Yods, not directed at your avatar)

And I totally understand why you would have no issues. But the masses who just want to go to a casino to play craps? I doubt they will be less understanding. And a Casino will never do anything to limit the suckers who go to a casino to gamble.

You are a very sensible man. I agree about the greed of casinos.

I cant find the article claiming the guns were legal but this is pretty sad. A sudden psychotic break? I feel sorry for his brother having to carry this news. How do you reconcile that. Atleast if he had a history of mental illness you can point the finger at poor medical systems but Eric Paddock has got no hope of resolving this in his head.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

I'm listening to the radio - and I realize it's all speculation at this point - but some callers are saying that since there seems to be no motives, red flags, familial info, criminal record, political-extremist or terrorist ties, or background on this guy linking him to anything but being a completely ordinary, average guy, people are starting to theorize things like a Manchurian Candidate scenario. (But for whom? ISIS, Russia, North Korea, Trump, the Clintons, the Alt-Right, BLM, Antifa???)

machine guns (fully automatic guns) are illegal UNLESS they were bought before 1986. The NRA worked hard to get that loop hole so that gun sellers can sell older machine guns without legal worry. Now from what Ive heard of THIS case (not officially confirmed yet) is that he bought all his guns legally and converted some of them to full auto himself. And thats illegal.

Hence why I am in the shut the hell up, mourn, and and wait camp.

no motives we know of YET. I would wait until they dig more deeply into his gambling situation before we can write that one off. Occam's razor would make it seem unlikely that this is due to hate group kidnapping, brain washing and planting and in fact someone who lost millions and snapped or something along those lines. It happened in Macao. And in the Philippines i believe.

I mentioned that in an earlier post. Including the conversion possibility. I even mentioned the North Hollywood bank robbers who did.

That being said, I say we wait and see for the actual investigation to be over. Otherwise we delve into the internet speculation echo chamber where the looney left tries to blame the NRA and gun owners and the wacky right try to say this guy was ISIS or ANTIFA.

Sure spoil the fun of the internet tin foil hat society. ;)

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

Agreed.

On another site someone speculated a brain tumor. Plausible.

Eh, amazing isnt it. I've got someone ranting at me the government did it. Woooo *cue ominous music and pass that hat over*

This just came up on my feed - how you cn help. Addresses for blood collection if youcan/ want to go down that path.

https://hellogiggles.com/news/help-v...ing-powerless/

Yep already printed up that same Twitter post and some other bits of information I got from local sites. My plan is to head straight to a donation point as soon as I pick up my car from the airport. Trouble is most of the places seem to be closed on weekends so Im still searching for a place that I know is open and when I plug in the names of places (like the police recommended Labor Health & Welfare Clinic) you get a WAVE of endless articles about the shooting and I cant find the stupid number...

Maybe theyll have Red Cross campers on the ground by then hopefully.

But people are really giving because I saw an article about how one place had a full parking lot and a line around the block at 4am! Gotta love people who care that much to wait overnight to give blood. And you gotta love that theres too many to count! People just want to help. Tragedies ALWAYS sprout a wave of heroics, generosity and altruism. I think its the nature of our species. We kill each other but we also go out of our way to help each other. Wish we'd figure it out...

And at times like this I wish the media would pull their head out of their colons and report about it. We need to keep these selfless members of the community in mind whenever something like this happens. Good for you for wanting to do your bit, I Rex. Even if you cant find one collecting on a weekend your intention is there, but at a guess I would think there'll be drives 24/7.

Interesting that he was holed up in the hotel (with those guns?) since last month. Will be interesting to see if he went with the intention of hitting the music festival or if he flipped out from gambling debts and something like the noise tipped him over the edge.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

Give blood... Especially if you are like me (O-negative)

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

Good job, people, using a tragedy to rail against the media, which has done nothing wrong in this instance. It's not the media's fault if people can't comprehend what was actually reported. Such as that it's been established this guy had bought multiple guns legally, but it has not been confirmed if any of those legal purchases were the guns used in this shooting. And no one claimed he just bought a full-auto rifle. It likely was converted after the purchase anyway.

I actually live in Las Vegas and in fact work about two blocks away, but I happened to be off last night. I could have been working, it just wasn't how my schedule worked out. I imagine where I worked, along with everywhere else on the Strip, went into some sort of lock down mode. I guess I'll find out tonight when I go to work. I will try to donate blood on Wednesday.

I'm sure most have already seen this; October 1st when the shooting happened was the 274th day of the year and the Vegas Shooting was the 273rd mass shooting (four or more shot) this year in America :eek: Horrifying. http://www.abc15.com/news/data/mass-...curred-in-2017

Yeah this is horrendous. Like Swan i saw a video where you could only hear the gunfire and it was stomach turning. Also not sure if this was confirmed because i heard it early but i read that there was so much smoke from the gunfire that the shooter set off an alarm giving away his position.

:(

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

I was glad to hear Trump say we'd talk about guns soon... He supported restrictions his entire life -- no reason why automatics are available for sale at a gun show, etc...

Has anyone heard anything about this guy being on any type of medication?

I don't think this is strictly a gun problem. I think alot of people fail to realize that the United States has the highest rate per capita use of anti-depressant drugs and boasts the highest consumption of opiates.

After every mass shooting, both sides yell about gun control, etc., but nothing is said about the alarming problem we seem to be having with doctors overdosing prescription medication.

But, since I haven't with anything on the subject, I'm just speculating at this point, but I would be very surprised if this guy wasn't on some kind of medication. The link between mass shootings and anti-depressants seem to be getting more and more common.

Automatic guns are not available for sale at gun shows. Semi automatic are available, but not fully auto.

I've said the same thing before on this board about school shootings. A number of the shooters were on psychiatric prescribed drugs. I don't know about this last shooter, and if he was on any prescribed psychiatric drugs?

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

I dont know if meds were involved either but the question always has to be asked IMO, especially with a medical system as woeful as you guys have in US. I did see some comments that he was highly agitated whatever that's worth.
Mateen's wife said he was bipolar for example but I dont recall if he was on scripted meds, just abusing steroids.

I know drugs affect different people differently, but I've always been a little skeptical about drug excuses. I've done a lot of drugs, yet I've never hurt anyone. I've got a temper, yet it does not control my behavior and has never been heightened beyond my control by drugs. It's simply not in me to physically harm anyone - I've never taken any amounts of drugs or gotten drunk enough where it drove me to hurt or want to hurt anyone or lose my ability NOT to hurt anyone.

There's just no chemical influence that can make me step over certain moral codes (like going from the only conditions that would make me willing to kill would be self-defence or defence of others to becoming a mass murderer, or intentionally killing any innocent person).

I kind of believe that kind of evil has to already be in someone - I don't think drugs ALONE can turn someone into a mass murderer (of course a tumultuous upbringing, affiliating with bad associations, poor role models, various traumatizing experiences, poor or abusive relationships, mental or emotional problems, series of unlucky circumstances COMBINED with drugs or addiction, could certainly cement evil into one's being & influence them toward violence).

Either do I...It's a numbers game.

Over prescribe psychiatric drugs to millions of people, many who are all ready very unstable, ....and the odds can go up, that one of them will snap. Of course the fact that they already had problems in the first place also plays a big part.

Even weed can cause psychotic episodes so no surprises pharmaceuticals can.

I think that gun data is terrible skewed (rather purposely or by ignorance), people often compare gun deaths in the United States to gun deaths in Switzerland, the U.K., France, etc when the state of Texas alone is larger than all of those countries. And within gun statistics, I've never seen a study breaking down those numbers (How many were suicides? How many were accidents? How many people were killed by illegal guns?). That's why I think it's less of a gun problem, thought I totally agree that some people shouldn't own guns, and something else affecting our society. In the 1920s/1930s (up until 1934), you could purchase a Thompson sub machine guns at sporting good stores, or even by mail, and Chicago presently, with some of the strictest gun control laws in the country, have more deaths than Prohibition Era Chicago (thought this is a different argument, I think the legalization of narcotics would see a sudden fall of violence in Chicago). But my point is, not that long ago, people had easier access than we do today to very powerful firearms, yet these mass shootings, outside of the gang wars of Chicago and New York, were unheard of.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

The Chicago have strict gun control laws doesn't really matter when there's really lax gun control laws five miles outside of Chicago. It's incredibly easy for criminals there to get guns, and i believe the majority of the Chicago gun deaths are by gangs.

I'm not making any Gun Control argument, i don't have an opinion on that since i never grew up around guns. Just don't think the "but Chicago has strict gun control laws" argument really works.

I see your argument, I just don't understand the solution of strict gun control, because somewhere, someone will find a source for anything. And to be fair, I don't think most gun control advocates are for any kind of total disarmament, just common sense gun registration/regulation, which I don't think is that offensive to the Second Amendment.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

I dont think any amount of drugs can cause a person to slowly amass an arsenal of weapons, meticulously plan out a murder spree and then successfully pull it off. All while living a normal life and showing not even a HINT of dysfunction to associates and neighbors and even immediate family members. Thats not "unstable" to me. Thats careful long term cold calculation. But what do I know. Clearly there was something "wrong" with him. But Im not sure what yet... Can you hide being a sociopath for your entire life?

In regards to the gun issue, I find it a little sickening that the day this event occurred republicans were considering a bill making silencers legal at the behest of the NRA. thankfully this event was enough for them to quickly stuff it into a drawer for now. But the clarion call of the NRA is a strong one so Im sure it wont be long before they revisit the need for gun owners to be allowed to silence their kill shots.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

I agree with Gangland on gun control being a non sequitur....America in the past 1930s-40-50s, etc...had a large number of guns per capita, and yet there wasn't the 'popularity' of mass shootings back then. These mass shootings are mostly a phenomenon from the last few decades.

Guns haven't changed lately nor has the accessibility of them gotten easier. Semi automatic guns were available back in the early 20th century, so that's not a new twist either.

So instead of looking at guns as causing mass shootings, lets look at the people who 'pull the trigger' as being the cause. So what is causing these people to go out in a 'blaze of glory'? Answer that, and you'll have yourself a large part of the puzzle solved.

Hell yes. Jeffrey Dahmer?
How about Martin Bryant who was the catalyst for our gun restrictions.
3 out of every 100 men you come into contact with will have an anti social personality disorder but not necessarily diagnosed as such. The numbers are probably even higher.

But they can sell converters, don't they?

I think society is more indifferent... Before people wanted to be on TV; now they wanna be on TV, internet, social media, etc etc.... I also think people need to love something, someone, perhaps have a role model, but it seems we're going backwards in this rat race.

True, but this same logic would seem to undermine gun control arguments in general, since the laws we pass aren't going to apply to Mexico.

Granted, it's easier to drive across state lines than across national borders, but obviously lots of firearms already make it across, and that'd only get worse if we made the prospect more lucrative by heavily restricting access to them here.

You know I think there's some truth there.

Good question, I wondered about that too?

Are these converters being sold legally for turning semi auto into fully auto? Or are they being sold for something else and then being illegally modified? @gunslinge45 might know.

Yeah as i said i wasn't making a gun control argument, just saying that i don't think that specific one works.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

I've never even held a gun let alone fired one. I really think the glorification of the gun and gun culture is part of the rise of gun deaths. Kids exposed non-stop to violence on TV, in movies and in video games has got to have an effect (or is it affect?). Plus a lot of kids don't have a strong role model around to keep them from getting involved in gangs, etc. I would really like to see as much outrage at the high murder rates in cities like Chicago like there has been at situations like this most recent one in LV.

They do background checks (or they are supposed to) when you buy a gun, right? Do they only look for criminal records or do they look at mental health history and medications as well?

We had guns when I was a kid but strictly for use on my dad's properties, not suburbia, mostly for hunting rabbits and foxes. Havent touched one since I shot a bunny when I was about 8 nd never forgave myself, but I was taught gun safety. How many people with guns these days are taught to respect them, I mean for goodness sake, idiot parents leaving guns lying around in houses, cars and most recently a day care centre? Unbelievable.

I cant buy the violence on tv, music etc argument. I'm not saying it isnt possible, just that I watch a lot of violence and am a pacifist. My husband listened to death metal growing up and plays violent computer games - couldnt hurt a fly. I think if someone has a predisposition to kill people or animals no amount of fictional violence will compel them, but I'm not a shrink so just my personal opinion. This kid for exmple - I cant buy that Dexter inspired him to do that

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...red-girlfriend

Re: your question concerning background checks - in aus they do; no idea about USA. Even before the restrictions came in there was a schedule of antecedents that prohibited ever receiving a permit which included drugs (mental health history as well if I recall correctly) and certain criminal offences.

Not easy getting a firearm here these days if you want to do it legally, however, if I stupidly decided I needed a gun I could get one by 5pm today.

I am very hesitant to blame psych meds. As someone who deals with the mentally ill more then I should, it is being off meds that is usually what makes people call me to deal with them. And even if the person is so out there off his meds in the thralls of a full blown psychotic breakdown where they have lots all control, they are incapable of a complex plan like this. Grabbing a knife or some simple weapon sure, but not a deliberate plan such as this.

I think when we have a big picture it is going to be something beyond a simple talking point on guns, drugs, or mental illness.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

I think a tougher/more interesting question is whether the rise in mass shootings and the rise in prescription drugs share a common source.

Or change their dose without medical supervision. How about full blown alcos who go cold turkey? That can be pretty bad as well.

Just talking in general. Paddock's brother certainly hasnt implied anything like this. Just came across as a pretty non descript kind of guy which is why it's so baffling.

Chicago has a death toll problem due to high gang violence, an entrenched gang culture, and the inner cities have been left to degrade by a political class more interested in re-elections then solving problems.

Blaming TV, video games, rap music, metal, or the like for violence is ignoring the bigger issue.

Sort of a A does not cause B, but both are drawn form C sort of deal? I hope I made sense.

OK then what factors do you blame the rise of mass shooting in the USA on?

If I knew those answers I would be in a different line of work. I can opine on street crime no issues at all. But the why to mass shootings not related to gang and drug turf shootings, I can only speculate.

I know a bunch of mass shooters have links to a lot of different factors from untreated mental health, war time trauma, child abuse, to just wanting to copy cat the Columbine kids who they were obsessed with. But each shooter is his own little case with his own flaws, issues, traumas and histories, and motivations. I hesitate to try and find a blanket explanation to their rise. But trying to find some commonality is by no means a bad place to start.

So speculate:p...that's what we are all doing.

Can I pipe in on that one as an outsider? Feelings of self seclusion and disenfranchisement is my guess (not just usa but anywhere in the world). Seems to be a lot of unhappiness for people and their place in the greater community these days.

Yes, I can see that as a factor. The more that people interconnect: with mobile phones, instant media and the internet, the more that people tend to isolate themselves from the real world and the real people around us.

Yeah I was just thinking the exact thing, then on top of that there is the constant bombardment of bad news on the net. There was a time back in the old days we grew up in where you could just avoid newspapers and tv coverage. Now it's impossible unless you live in a cave. Some days the world does seem like a dismal place. Maybe Paddock just felt like he couldnt reach out to anyone so just snapped. Pretty sad, despite how heinous what he did was.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

I blame some of it on what we're doing right now - the Internet, social media, electronic communication.

Experts say it is de-socializing us, isolating us, addicting us, making us mentally and physically unhealthy, making us unable to relate to each other in a human sense, or, in some extreme cases making us unable to differentiate between reality and virtual reality.

Of course, like all factors that can influence, it's going to influence people to different extents depending on how vulnerable they are, how vulnerable they allow themselves to be, and how much of themselves, their time and their psyche they invest in it.

We seemed to have one of those ESP synchronicity moments again!
(I blame the Internet!)

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

Do you guys have something like RUOK campaign? It;s a national day here in sept to touch base with someone (mostly men) who might be suicidally depressed. Really gets the community involved simply by asking the question of someone where things dont seem quite right.

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

RIP to the victims. A horrible thing to have happen. It is very perplexing how the shooter is in his mid-60s, wealthy, and had no past criminal record. He must've had a really dark secret that he kept completely hidden. At the very least this evil man is gone from this world and won't hurt anyone else.

These pictures were released from inside the killer's hotel room. You can see he used a bump stock to achieve the rapid rate of fire. If you do a little search you can find the leaked photo of the killer after he shot himself.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...vegas-guns.jpg

Last update I saw (this afternoon) the Sheriff said he was majorly pissed (not verbatim) that these photos somehow got released to the media during an active investigation. Now to learn there are photos of the shooter in the crime scene on the Net? (The Sheriff must be livid.)

Re: Las Vegas Attack 2017
 

Well, you can see his shoes, pants, a small part of his top and a glove. It's mostly you can see he was well-organized from other photos of the rooms.

I didn't see that but there is a leaked picture showing his head after he shot himself in the mouth.

That's great. Who on earth would want to see that. Isnt there enough bad sht in the world so why would you promote it?

Well-said. People are complex and it's best not to simplify or categorize.

My tight-knit community of friends is majorly comprised of people with mental health challenges and their family members, and I've noticed those struggling are all completely different. There's a deep-seated problem in categorizing people into different mental subgroups, because everyone within those subgroups is different in how they operate mentally, and in different ways. Plus, that leads to people thinking there is a distinct difference between the "mentally ill" and the "mentally healthy" people. There isn't a wall separating us, or if there is, it's a man-made one. Everyone's brain operates a little differently, and it's not a categorical thing. The mind doesn't work like that. You can call my brain schizophrenic, but it's just a word people give me. My brain works the way it works - different not just from other people with schizophrenia but anyone ever.

A lot of my bipolar, schizophrenic, etc. brothers and sisters are absolutely brilliant in their own ways, one of those ways being their kindness. A lot of us struggle to fit into society but you know what? Maybe society isn't all that it's cracked up to be. You don't have to fit into society to be a good person. You just have to want to be a good person.

There's definitely a huge stigma surrounding mental illness and it's not helped when people like this guy go around mass murdering people. Because mental health always gets brought up. But anyone is capable of murder. You get the choice. And none of my mentally ill buddies would kill a bunch of people. Sure, some of you might think I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt and secretly they want to. But don't most people who think they're "normal" with wonderful, kind, and mentally sane friends and family say that exact same thing? You always hear people who knew shooters saying they saw no signs that person was like that, that they seemed totally "normal".

People are normal until they shoot a bunch of people, then their mental health is questioned and the stigma against mental illness is bolstered. But don't clump me and my friends with people like this a**hole.

I didn't promote anything and I sure as heck don't need to show respect to a psychopathic killer.