Is it wrong to sleep with someone you are against having a kid with?
 

What's your opinion on this - I'm thinking yes.

This seems to be a consistent underlying principle that separates the prudes (ex. "all non-procreative sex is a SIN!") from the hedonists who sleep with anything that walks (condom optional).

Why would it be wrong?

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

So it's wrong for people who don't want kids to have sex?

That sounds pretty dumb to me.

Because unplanned pregnancies happen even in the age of birth control and condoms.

So if a dude picks up a woman, takes her home and ****s her brains out, and then never sees her again - then for all he know she may have gotten pregnant.

And the kid may grow up never knowing his father, and end up being raised on welfare at the expense of the taxpayers. So you just ended up being a net economic drain on everyone else just to satisfy your horniness, and contributed to the problem of children not having father figures in their lives.

Big difference in what you said and what I said.

If you're in a financial position to have a kid and have vetted the lady in question enough to know you'd be able to handle it in the event it happened then that's responsible.

If you pick up some chick at a bar who you never know, **** her and then never see her again - then what if she did end up making a kid who'll have no dad in his life?

What if she's actually a crack-head who ends up raising your kid with some abusive drug dealer boyfriend; or what if she has a late-term abortion and ends up murdering the offspring you created?

I mean everytime you put your penis in a vagina you're taking a risk that can affect another innocent person, which is one of the problems with modern day "hook up culture" that transcends religious prudery.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Nurse! He's out of bed again!

It's almost dawn now, I'd better get back in my coffin.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Guess there wasn't enough clarity from the title - think about it this way.

Let's see a guy see some crack head whore at a club on a bat part of town and decides to bang her just because he thinks she's an "easy score".

But the guy knows that if he ends up getting her pregnant then it will be harmful for the kid. So he's sleeping with her knowing there's a chance of it happening even though getting her knocked up would be a bad thing due to the circumstances involved?

Is that a bad thing to do? I'm leaning toward thinking so - not to mention self-depreciating. Having sex with a woman who's "easy" is basically stamping "desperate" on your forehead - where's the challenge in it?

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

In that case then yeah, it's a bad thing.
A ex friend of mine, a total dingbat, is exactly like that and now he has about 30 kids with 30 different women. No joke.

That's nothing, what about the other 60 kids those women already have with 40 different fathers.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Yep, exactly.


In those circumstances it is a bad thing.


But if you're asking "is it wrong to have sex when you don't want kids" then no, it's not a bad thing. Only Humans and a handful of other mammals have sex for fun.
I think there's a type of Baboon and Dolphins are the only other creatures that do that.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

It's wrong to do anything if you're not going to take responsibility for any associated risks.

Yes.


No.


Yes.


Yesnoyesnoyesno.....

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/...psysfnwxvf.gif

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

I don't want kids or to be married, but under the right circumstances, I'll have sex with a girl whose worth it until she's not worth it.

I was looking at it from the point of view of sensible, consenting adults who use contraception.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

I don't know anyone who respects a deadbeat of any kind... Another reason I'm pro-abortion, pro-contraceptives, etc...

It will be a great and rich day when birth control for men are around...

What about a woman who lies, says she's on birth control, but just wants to get pregnant? I know someone who did it to some guy. If I was a judge, I'd lay all the responsibility on her and any help from the father would be voluntary.

the way you write about women makes me feel sick :sick:

It's my satirical style of writing, if you take it seriously and get offended then I apologize.

Fact is that a lot of them don't respect themselves, which is why I dislike the guys I've known who "sleep with anything" that's willing - I prefer to be more selective.

I mean if a woman's banging a guy who's only sleeping with her because he thinks she's "easy", not caring if he's using protection or not, I don't see why she needs respect anymore than the idiot who got her pregnant. People like that are causing a lot of harm in today's world with unplanned pregnancies and children w/o fathers putting a strain on the welfare system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj7y-_aIbNw

Is it? God help me I'm going to try to explain a simple logical concept to 90sace. I know this won't work but what the hell, I'll do it anyway.

Suppose a guy never wants to have kids.
THEREFORE - Every woman is a woman he doesn't want to have a kid with. And now we're back to my original statement, having no logical difference between what I said and what you said.

Yeah I'm sure this went right over your head anyway but whatever. I'm out.

Bro, you misquoted me. What I meant in which it would be a bad thing if he did end up having a kid by mistake.

Such as if he knows the woman in question has mental issues, or isn't responsible enough to be a mother - in which case if he sleeps with her it will be a bad result for the kid if she gets pregnant.

I wasn't talking about simply deciding "not" to have kids, I was talking about doing the deed with someone who he knows would be a bad mother.

It is, you just distorted what I said; if you read the opening posts it should've been pretty clear, since i straight up mentioned "prudes" who think that all non-procreative sex is wrong, which wasn't what I was getting at at all.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Okay so what is the new question then.. Is it bad to have a kid that you don't want?
Yeah probably.. sometimes people grow into it and love their child anyway, sometimes they don't.

But kids who are unplanned and born into families like that are much more likely to grow into criminals and be bad for society. That's why I believe in abortion, there is a very strong correlation between those types of pregnancies and crime rate.

So is this more "satire" or a fact I should take seriously?

The way you put yourself next to women in this (that many of them don't respect themselves, so it's incumbent on YOU to be "selective") is pretty demeaning dude. But maybe you mean it that way.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

I don't really get why this is an issue :lol:. Morally, there's nothing wrong with it. If women do get pregnant unexpectedly, then it's her body, and she has the right to choose what she does with it, especially if she feels that she can't provide for a child and provide her child with a life and environment that it deserves to be given.
But with the many contraception methods available to prevent such occurrences, there's just nothing wrong with someone having sex and sharing the most intimate thing a person can share with someone they adore, even if it doesn't work out or they don't get married. Heck, plenty of people don't want to get married or have children these days anyway.

What about having sex with someone you don't even like? :p

"Lie back and think of England" :p

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Let's be real here for a second. We're all animals that happened to evolve big brains long ago. Every animal with blood pumping through their brains have an instinct to mate with the opposite sex of their species (In some cases the same sex), its built into our genetic code. Is it wrong to continue on the species? No. Is it natural to not have sex until you meet "the right one"? No. As long as you take the necessary precautions (use condoms) I do not see why it is so wrong.

It isn't that having sex with people you don't plan to marry and have kids with is wrong. It is that people are idiots and ignorant and don't take the necessary precautions to make sure they don't accidentally have kids until they are ready to handled the responsibility and meet someone they truly "love".

You're young, Ace. You should be banging everyone.

http://i.imgur.com/fTTBLia.gif

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Thanks cricket. Been there done that.

One time I had sex with a girl I picked up at a bar and didn't use a condom, then I sent her packing and something about that felt wrong to me. Having sex with an easy chick you don't plan on seeing again and just praying that she was "on the pill" strikes me as dishonorable.

I think prudery has poisoned the well so in this day and age it's hard to have rational discussions about sex; typically when talking about the subject you'll hear either 1 of 2 messages - either something like "sex is for procreaion!" or something like "sex is natural..."

And on the lighter side - one time I knew a guy, he was a nice guy but he had no job and was living with his girlfriends parents, and told me about how he and his GF were trying to have a kid... I didn't say anything but I thought to myself how crazy it was that he doesn't care that the welfare state that I pay taxes to is going to be the one providing for his kid and he didn't think anything of it.

Don't feel bad if you sent them packing. I used to go to the girl's places, and then steal their cars to get home.

TMI Warning Below

I couldn't use condoms for a long time, no one taught me :down:
I blame our really stupid sex-ed teachers and also the prudishness of our society.

One of the most asinine things I've ever seen is when a sex-ed teacher says condoms will fit you! Just watch. Then they stretch the condom over their head. I saw this once on TV and I felt a great swell of pity for the children being "educated" by that woman. Yes technically you can stretch a small condom over a large object, it's just that the condom will squeeze the living hell out of it! Don't expect to maintain an erection.

Second most asinine thing is that there is no size information anywhere on any condom packaging.
Seriously what the hell..? I had no idea why they didn't work for me until my mid-twenites and I finally started getting the right size.

classic! I knew that Crick was Charlie Sheen

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Chopped up this video FYE. From the smartest show on television.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXQT4kNpbmU

Sometimes it's fun? :D

that's pretty much the camp I tend to be in on this issue. but, hey, I just started my first relationship in nineteen years. What do I know?

Is it wrong for two people to have consensual sex? No.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Really? It's not possible to have consensual sex that is ill advised, or reckless? :skeptical:

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

is it bad? yeah, but both are consenting, is not all the guys fault like you seem to picture it lol, it's their own choice, we can't tell people what to do :D

also just to put it out there, I wouldn't stop having sex because I don't wanna have kids at the moment, just take measures like everyone else should be doing, but again, it's their own choice

That's not the same as wrong though, is it?

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Cover your willies or be stuck watching Teletubbies..... its that simple.

http://www.movieforums.com/community...1&d=1449956464

It's wrong to have sex. PERIOD.

People who have sex go to Hell.

Unless maybe you pray to our Lord and beg for forgiveness. Even if you are married and having sex with your spouse.

My parents had sex and made me. They are in Hell for it.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

That's how Christianity used to be very early on. You were supposed to be celibate and marriage was considered failure. Frankly, the only good thing about it was that the children you had might be a better Christian than you and your partner were.

Any definition of "wrong" that didn't include reckless behavior would be pretty bizarre.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

But your actions can be reckless without being wrong. If I play around with a gun and it goes off, I'd have been reckless, regardless of the result of the shot, but not wrong.

Morals are an assigned belief. You can promote the idea that it's wrong to recklessly play with a gun. You can promote the idea that it's wrong to have sex with someone you won't want to have a kid with. Depends on your own personal belief. If a man and a woman have reckless sex and she gets pregnant, that might be "wrong" to someone, but at the same time, they were just doing what nature intended for them to do -- they are biologically programmed to reproduce. They are biologically programmed to get together and get it on. Nature has successfully done its job if this occurs, no matter how these people feel about it mentally/psychologically/philosophically.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

As Honeykid said, early Christians used to not believe in having sex at all.

But obviously, they still did it, anyway. Their bodies took over and overruled the propaganda that was in their minds. Nature wins.

You're forgetting the pull out method. ;)

Or the abortion method.

That would definitely be wrong!

I don't even see the counterargument here; does it have something to do with awareness? IE: you're assuming recklessness cannot be wrong if the person is being reckless out of ignorance, rather than indifference?

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

My belief (being male) is I shouldn't vocalize my opinion for something I will never have to deal with.

I think the choice is simple, the people involved are the ones that will have the rest of their lives affected by it.

With that out of the way...



I would love for the crick to make a "lifestories" thread, seriously... statute of limitations and all. ...even if he is a pats fan... ... and they stole a Superbowl from us (jokes and jokes and jokes and jokes :o)... ... ... and hopefully we can meet them in the Superbowl and repay them.

Being an 80's baby, I was indoctrinated with 2 things...

1. Do drugs and you will D.I.E. .
2. Have unprotected sex and you will D.I.E. .

"Knock on Wood". Being young and impressionable and having the fear of Death by my peen worked. As far as I know... Like when people ask if you have any kids, "None that I know of. ;)"

Goodnight folks! Man are my arms tired. :D

Recklessness is stupid and unsafe, but not wrong. I don't see it as a right or wrong thing. Why would it be wrong? Unless you mean if it's not wrong then it has to be right. Is that the case? Because that's not what I mean. I just mean it's not wrong.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Hahaha. Thread title.

Why would putting people in danger be wrong? That seems like it should be self-evident, but if you want it in syllogism form, okay:

1. It's bad when people get hurt.
2. Putting people in danger means they might get hurt.
3. Therefore, recklessly putting people in danger is bad.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

I didn't say there was anyone else there. Even alone it's reckless and stupid but I don't think it's wrong.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

There are probably way more people out there who have sex with others they will never have kids with.

I don't think it's really possible, by definition, to do something reckless that isn't also wrong. But we've gotten pretty far afield: regardless of whether or not we can construct a hypothetical where this distinction is possible, the issue is whether or not consent should be the only determining factor as to whether or not a sexual act is right or wrong. That flips the burden of proof: it means not that you can construct a scenario where it isn't reckless, but rather, that you can't construct a scenario where it ever is. Which doesn't really seem like a serious position.

I think trying to reduce this question to one of consent is, like so many other responses in this thread, answering a different question than was asked. People are ostensibly answering "is this wrong?" but the responses are actually applicable to questions like "do I like the idea of being told I shouldn't do this?" or "is it fair if people criticize me for doing it?" or "should I be allowed to do it?"

My positions in a quick way:

1. Sex for it's own sake isn't necessarily wrong. Also, while we're on it, it can be wrong to have sex FOR the sake of procreation (e.g. you want to have a baby so that you can torture it). I think it's pretty clearly circumstantial.

2. I agree with Yoda that recklessness is damn near directly tied to wrongfulness, but I also think think that every action has an element of recklessness attached to it. Reckless as a descriptor only makes sense if it crosses some threshold of reckless (otherwise the term has little meaning). Recklessly having sex is probably wrong, but not all sex for it's own sake is reckless sex.

3. I think the idea of "It's wrong to do anything if you're not going to take responsibility for any associated risks" is fairly true, but you and I may have very different ideas about what "taking responsibility" means.

4. If a hedonist is selfishly pursuing pleasure maximization they should take mild proactive steps to avoid stds and pregnancy for the hedonist's sake.

I don't think the simple act of having sex for pleasure is "wrong". In fact, if both parties consent and are taking the necessary steps to keep themselves protected, then they're also probably smart enough to understand the risks involved in having sex. In that case, I would hardly consider this "wrong".


Now, if you have someone who just wantonly goes around hooking up with people without any regard for protection, testing, etc. then, I could definitely see a case for that being considered "wrong". It certainly isn't smart or responsible.

nope, I'm not offended at all. Prob more sad to read stuff like this in this day and age. I thought we'd got past rediculous ideas like you have using the kind of language you do.

As for your 'satirical style', I see no evidence of that. I always thought satire involved a clever use of wit

If this is the case then I don't see that there's a definite answer because it'd be the consequences of that action and the reactions to them (if any appear/occur) which would lead to an answer.

I don't think it's wrong, but it's not right either as it's a neutral act.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

BURN!!! :eek:

But really, the main problem with you, 90, is that you never really know how to deliver your discussions. Sometimes I see where you are going, but mostly you lose me beforehand or further down the line. In the middle somewhere, I may see a point, but usually I'm gone before I get there...

The dispute isn't about whether or not the act is inherently right or wrong, it's about whether or not consent is the only relevant factor in determining its morality. So if you think it's even possible that there are negative consequences and reactions that could make the action wrong (and it sounds like you do), then you already agree in principle.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

But wouldn't that make most thing morally wrong? I could drive within the legal speed limit but still hit someone and kill them. That doesn't mean it's morally wrong to drive, does it?

I think a better analogy would be whether or not it's morally wrong to drive while intoxicated, even if you don't get into an accident. And I think the answer to that is pretty obvious. Reckless behavior doesn't need to manifest itself tangibly to be wrong: it's wrong the moment you create a danger you can't control.

But that's neither here nor there, because as I said in the last post:

You seem to be arguing that it's not necessarily wrong, but as far as I can tell nobody has suggested otherwise. It has been suggested that it's automatically not wrong if the act is consensual, though, and that's what I was disagreeing with.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Why have sex when I can play videogames

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Is it wrong to play video games you don't intend to finish?

So are you saying that it's is wrong depending on what else happens afterwards/the result? Or are you saying that the possibility of pregnancy, regardless of whether or not precautions are taken, is enough to make the act immoral if you don't intend to or wouldn't want to have children with that person?

I haven't been saying either of those things: I've been saying that consent isn't the only thing we need to know to determine if it's right or wrong.

I'm not sure how to put it any plainer than that. Whatever you're arguing with is, I think, some kind of assumption or extrapolation.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Hells no. It's fun!

I agree with that. My question was that that isn't the same as wrong, which then lead on to the whole reckless thing.

[/quote]I'm not sure how to put it any plainer than that. Whatever you're arguing with is, I think, some kind of assumption or extrapolation.[/quote]
Yep. we seem to be at cross purposes here. So, to answer the question, is it wrong?

Cool.

Depends on how literally you take the question. If it literally means not wanting a kid, that would technically encompass even married couples not using birth control who just hope they don't get pregnant right now, which even your staunchest Catholic would have little objection to. I'm married, and don't want kids right now, but I understand and accept that still I have responsibilities if it happens.

*Gasp* Yoda! Have some decency!

But that was the question. I mean, it's a stupid question as it doesn't take into account anything else, but that's the question. Hence me answer of "no".

I never intend to finish them. But then, I'm old and when I started playing them there was no finish. :D

It's the question if we decide to take it as completely literal, but given the follow-up posts and the fact that virtually nobody would answer "no" under that interpretation, I doubt that's the question as it was intended.

Sometimes I buy a game and play it for awhile, and I don't even remember its title.

What's the point of answering a question in a way you think it might've been intended? I think it's a stupid question. If it's a badly written question which is asking a more complex question, that's fine. But you can't answer (and/or argue) a question you've interpreted and expect to have any meaning discussion about it (and by "it" I mean both the question which was asked and the question you decided to answer) because you need to establish just what it is you're arguing as well as what you're arguing against (as you're saying that other people are also interpreting the question)

Is it wrong to drink if you don't intend to get drunk?

Because discussion is more useful and productive when all involved make a good faith effort to understand what the other person is trying to say.

In this case, I don't see how there's any doubt: his second and third posts in the thread make his meaning pretty plain, both of which were posted long before you or I replied.

Re: Is it wrong to sleep with someone you won't want to have a kid wit
 

Nope. Sex is normal. Howerver, whatever you take is also being taken from you. Don't forget that.