Re: Is The Godfather the greatest American film ever made?
 

Didn't you just complain about memes further up the thread? It's OK, I like em, they make me laugh. Though usually I don't totally get the references as I haven't seen the movie in the image. That must be An Officer and a Gentlemen? Why yes, I am!:D

Re: Is The Godfather the greatest American film ever made?
 

An imaginary Star Fleet officer that is!

Re: Is The Godfather the greatest American film ever made?
 

The Godfather can't be the greatest American film of all time because it borrows from a story that already existed.

To compare the level of artistry: singer vs. singer/songwriter.

Conclusion: Steven Spielberg was wrong and that's the final verdict.

You can close this thread now.

A meme is fallacious or illicit when, for example, it is used as an ad hominem by positioning a visual personal attack as as a "proof" of some claim. I have no claim to prove, here, so this is just sh*tposting, which is entirely above board, counselor.

He's must think It's a Wonderful Life is Swedish.

Re: Is The Godfather the greatest American film ever made?
 

@Corax Nope, I ain't taken the bait:nope:

You got me there, what do you mean?

In a former life, I spent a lot of time with scales, ratings and statistics and what everybody in that field realizes is that every compilation of statistics can add up to a greatest, mostest, bestest or whatever. That all works pretty well for things like tire life, favorite short color, hot dog sales, etc, but the more you get toward things like art, the less it actually means since there IS no right answer, just a total of numbers. It's like how anybody in the music world recognizes that the easiest thing to count up is number one hits. Make an algorithm that combines sales, streams, media mentions, and you have a number one hit. That all works pretty well from a commercial perspective since money IS what counts.

I, for one, never gave much credence to those sort of ratings aside from the obvious commercial impact. In that light, we really come up empty on World's Greatest Movie, since, after all, by now, lots of movies have exceeded the Godfather and its sequels in sales, streams, reviews, etc.

I'd argue that the most we can come up with that's not just about the numbers is a list of movies that remain well regarded. It's a much bigger hill to climb when we try to find One Greatest Movie and we're embarrassed to notice that some long years ago, pre-Godfather, that cringe-worthy, racist, melodramatic, Birth of a Nation was the world's greatest movie. I think we're not going too far off to come up with a list of great movies, but the best of all time? I, for one, think of TGF as being "quite good". I could think of a lot of movies that are quite good. Is ONE the greatest? I don't think so. I, for one, would prefer the first LOTR trilogy. That beats the heck out Italian gangsters.

I'm not damning it with faint praise, but for me, it was quite good, but the subject matter didn't appeal. Acting was good, characters decent, but it just want on too long, too much of Marlon Brando mumbling. That got old. World's Greatest Movie.....nahh.

Re: Is The Godfather the greatest American film ever made?
 

What this thread needs is someone to come in and claim how there really is no such thing as a greatest movie ever made. That's when it's going to get real interesting.

Greatest "American" film.

Now when you say reviews, do you mean the number of them or the combination of reviews total and general acclaim? Because if it's the latter, then the total number of movies surpassing it isn't very large.


Just from the lists section I can pull up these:

• AFI's 100 Years, 100 Movies (10th Anniversary): #2, surpassed by Citizen Kane.
• AFI's 100 Years, 100 Thrills: #11
• MoFo Top 100 2010 Edition: #1
• MoFo Top 100 2020 Edition: #2, surpassed by 2001.
• MoFo Top 100 of the 70's: #1
• Sight and Sound Director's Poll: #12, with both Kane and 2001 surpassing it.
• Letterboxd Top 250 Narrative: #12, with Godfather II surpassing it
• Empire's Top 100: #3, surpassed by The Empire Strikes Back and LOTR 1.
• Variety Top 100: #3, surpassed by The Wizard of Oz and Psycho.
• Watchmojo Top 100: #1
• Rolling Stone Australia: #4, surpassed by Star Wars, Titanic and Shawshank (Titanic? Cashgrab).
• RT 200 Best Movies of All Time Article: #1
• Rateyourmusic Top 100: #4, surpassed by 2001, Harakiri and Come and See.

This isn't to say that the film is without a doubt the best, but it's doing extraordinarily well. Most of the surpassing films have only been seen twice if that. But if I had to pull a chart of the top 100 based on these lists with a score system like the one we used, that might be a fun project.

For me, I divide these things up. Greatest American film? Casablanca. Greatest non American film? Probably Something French or Japanese. I’ll get back to you all in another 6 years.

I don’t mind rankings or lists categorizing films. It helps me focus on said list and then branch out from there.
Too 100 euro horror? Fun stuff. Look it up

Different angle, same conclusion.

The point being, if we already all agree on the general principal that there can never technically be a greatest movie of all time, a point that has been established time and time again in other threads as well, how much fun can it possibly be to keep turning the conversation towards what no longer needs to be talked about, ever again, until the end of civilization?


Maybe we should also have a thread where we each can take turns spoiling Citizen Kane. Then we can let it quiet down for a few days, then start spoiling it all over again. You know, to see if it is just as much fun the second time around.


But don't let me interrupt. Please continue.

I can think of about fifty movies that don't sound dumb being mentioned in the Greatest Ever conversation. Casablanca is definitely one of them.


But then, I'd probably also include Gummo in the conversation, so I definitely don't know what I'm talking about.

Alternatively, it could be discussed why a greatest film of all time can't exist.
And you actually helped me with that by saying "we don't even know what best means".
I think that's an interesting point although I'm not sure if it will lead to anything substantial, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there (even if it's nowhere).

I registered on this site last year, I guess I should have read the 500 thousand threads to make sure I wouldn't repeat anything that had already been said.
My sincere apology.

Well, now I feel I should shut up... it's all been said. But I wrote it, so I'm going to throw it in here anyway.

In Christian Petzold's Criterion closet picks he spoke about top 10 lists, and argued that there isn't 10, there are thousands, and movies have something to do with other movies... "they are friends" he enthusiastically insists - and he makes an interesting point. If you look at cinema, or go through the early years chronologically - you see the language of film slowly being built and created right before your eyes - and then someone like D.W. Griffith comes along and takes it all, all that discovery and advancement and puts it in 1 movie, first with Birth of a Nation and later Intolerance - and you could take those pictures, raise them skyward and say "Behold, this is cinema". This is the new peak.

Later on, Orson Welles does the same with the new advancements, new style makers, and breaks a few rules in the process, so that again, we have the culmination of cinemas past, with a taste of cinemas future, you can hold Citizen Kane up in the air and say, "This is cinema!" This is the new peak. Arguably you can do that with the Godfather, but what you can't do is stop and say, "We're at the end, we found cinema #1 and are now done!" You don't stagnate, you push on and on. Schindler's List showed a shift and new growth and maturity for Spielberg, not only for the sober subject, but for him as a filmmaker, the technique - you can still find his signature style there, but he added Soviet innovators into the mix, there's some Klimov in there, which helps serve the subject matter and tell that story in the way it deserves. It's Petzold's notion of films being friends, that they are part of larger community.

Kane brought a lot of other filmmakers along with it, just as an Intolerance was built on the innovations of so many directors and editors and cameramen, etc., etc. before it. Godfather is one of the thousands, inspired maybe thousands afterwards, maybe future directors and crewmembers took what it did and expanded upon it and made a new 'greatest of all time, and that will branch into a future 'greatest of all time' - There isn't just 1 or 10... Godfather, Kane, Schindler and whatever else you feel deserves to be in the mix (me, On the Waterfront), put them in there, they belong.

I know we like to separate things, but movies aren't sausage links, why can't there be a hundred or more "greatest of all times"? Just one massive lump of great.

(saying that, I enjoy listing, not because I'm trying to lock down a definitive, authoritative list, but because it's an enjoyable brain teaser for one, but that it also helps me organize the history of film in my mind, as well as organize my thoughts and memories on seasons and individual picture... and to invite conversation and discovery).

I think I completely agree with all of that. It's sort of what I think I was getting at when I mentioned above about how there is really only one movie. This person just said it better

At some point I must see Gummo.
I’m spending too much time in Japan/France/Italy/Hong Kong/Brazil/Taiwan lately.
I have no regrets…..