Scorsese's Silence - Movie Forums

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Originally Posted by Upton (Post 1668490)

That's a fair view but there's a difference between compliance and complicity. There are even several scenes towards the end where in my opinion Scorsese goes out of his way to highlight that difference

True, but the compulsive aspect of it remains. If they get caught doing something pro-Christian, other Christians will suffer or even die. That's vital to me. Their sins aren't necessarily signs of an evil heart.

Originally Posted by Upton (Post 1668418)

This is well written and I agree this is mostly what I took away from the movie but

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WARNING: "Silence" spoilers below

it's totally undercut by the last shot which feels intended to make the audience feel the way you responded to it.

Oh, I don't think the article is saying he's trying to spread bad theology. Just that he is, even if he thinks it's fine.

Originally Posted by Cobpyth (Post 1668483)

I think Silence's case is less obvious than the other utilitarian examples he's offering, though. There's that compulsive aspect to it. The presence of the evil authority makes it a more layered and broader case than the others.

I think the author's point is that the film seems to excuse the apostasy, or even imply that it isn't apostasy at all. Depicting it is fine, and depicting people finding salvation in spite of it is fine: rationalizing the act itself, however, is another matter.

Originally Posted by Cobpyth (Post 1668483)

The final scene came across to me as Christianity's focus on what's truly inside. What's really in this human's heart. It's a judgement that is not really about sins. It kind of mirrors Christ's way of looking at people in the New Testament. Sins can make you evil, but they do not necessarily. There's room for human imperfection. Perfection can only be found in Christ himself.

Absolutely, but the reason it doesn't necessarily make you evil, and the reason there's room for human imperfection, is the possibility of repentance. The question for the author isn't "can this be forgiven?" Of course it can. The question is whether the film thinks there's nothing to be forgiven for.

Originally Posted by Cobpyth (Post 1668483)

That's why I don't buy the fact that the film ultimately undermines Christianity. If anything, it might demonstrate some of its most important components.

I think that's true, though not mutually exclusive with the criticisms. After all, the most insidious heresies are always mixed with truth.

Re: Scorsese's Silence

You guys have covered a lot of ground really well. I do want to say in regards to the essay the fact that Rodrigues never appears to forgive himself speaks to the film not excusing his apostasy. That's my personal opinion. I think the ending is sad and beautiful at the same time. Something an artist like Scorsese is very good at conveying.

Glad I finally saw this and got to read the thread. Great movie that I certainly would like to write about but probably won't have the brain power to do so.

Originally Posted by seanc (Post 1675233)

Glad I finally saw this and got to read the thread. Great movie that I certainly would like to write about but probably won't have the brain power to do so.

You're one of the smartest MoFos around. Don't let your sincere humbleness chain you.

Re: Scorsese's Silence

Originally Posted by seanc (Post 1675233)

Glad I finally saw this and got to read the thread. Great movie that I certainly would like to write about but probably won't have the brain power to do so.

I've chosen to remain silent about Silence for the same reason. It's like my brain can register message and critique but if you asked me to put it all into words then you may as well ask me to do so in Japanese too.