Re: Joker origin Movie
 

Re: Joker origin Movie
 

Why are people even entertaining the notion of this being a Nolan-Joker prequel when it clearly takes place back in the '70s or '80s?

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I can't miss this movie, I can't. "A drama flick about a tragic Joker driven to madness and supervillanry by the overwhelming grief of a mundane life"

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The trailer was more sooky than I expected. Gonna be interesting....

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I am more excited for this after seeing the trailer but not fully committed yet. I do like the darker tone though.

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I.....I'd say I'm tentatively excited, as I'm also a bit afraid it will have a Gotham vibe, and personally, I would HATE that. Gotham is the worst thing that's ever happened to Batman. Yeah I know that's saying a lot.... :lol:

I have a friend who has SEEN and EXPERIENCED my love for Batman, and he keeps trying to get me to stick with Gotham because he loves that Joker and swears the series gets better in S02 but I can't stand more than 4 episodes.

It's WAY too much to ask to sit through basically the "Supernatural" treatment of the Batman universe. I'm so afraid this movie goes the equally non-canon route...and I have hopes because of Joaquin Phoenix, basically. He is always THE REASON to watch even a crappy movie

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You misspelled "Joel Schumacher"

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This trailer has definitely sold me

Saw the trailer. It looks like it could be good, could be not, hard to tell. One thing I noticed in the trailer is they show the Joker smoking.

You never see characters smoking in superhero movies anymore it seems. Not that I think it's bad, I'm just surprised they had the guts to go there.

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At least I had fun with his... :lol:

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Joker new trailer is simply superb and eagerly waiting for the film, the actor really did superb job in showing one of the best acting skills

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I think it's look terrible and it's a terrible idea.

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It’s officially rated R for disturbing behavior and bloody violence.

https://www.comingsoon.net/movies/ne...avior-and-more

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A Joker movie without the R is just a joke.

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I don't normally care at all for superhero/comicbook films, but I'm super excited for this!

Why, what's different about this upcoming Joker film? Is it that cast or some other reason?

Obviously the cast is the biggest draw for me, but I also really like the tone and the lack of fantasy/sci-fi elements.

I see, I just now looked at IMDB, it has Phoenix in it. It might be a good film at that, sounds interesting.

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So, after 37 years Rupert Pupkin is still hosting his own late night talk show?
That's a better run than Johnny Carson!


I swear this could be a sequel to the King of Comedy (1982) - think about it, there are some strange similarities (this could almost be Rupert's story if he hadn't lucked out in the end, after all, he did turn to crime at one point, didn't he?) ;)

Could be a good film. The trailer is interesting. Nice to see Phoenix take off some weight..:)

~Doc

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Trailer looks great! Joaquin Phoenix will be getting some Oscar buzz for this.

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Meh. What makes the Joker cool is his ambiguous origins. It looks good but I am not a fan of explaining his origins.

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The idea that an origin story will make the Joker less cool is the best argument for a Joker origin story I've ever heard.

Good chance he gets it I suspect as it was also be a makeup for not having won for several other very well reguarded roles.

I'm pretty good at spotting Oscar worthy performances before the buzz begins.

I just came across this:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...164132668.html


And yes, you're right. Phoenix should win the Oscar. He's one of the greatest actors of his generation.

He did get a nomination for The Master but even that was probably a bit too oddball to get an Oscar win whilst Her, Inherent Vice and You Were Never Really Here definitely were.

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This is the story of Garry (from Parenthood 1989) all grown up! ;)

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I don't understand why so many people, all over the net are comparing this to a Martin Scorsese movie. Just because it's about a guy who goes off the deep end, and goes on a killing spree?

Lots of directors have made movies like that, why is Scorsese held up to the gold standard when it comes to a guy who has a psychotic breakdown? Plus Scorsese only made that movie once if I recall (Taxi Driver), so I don't see why he is the gold standard for this movie to be compared to.

Watch The King of Comedy. If afterwards you still don’t understand the comparison, then you probably never will.

Exactly! :)

(I wish Jerry Lewis was in this!)

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Oh okay thanks, but I've seen The King of Comedy, but the only thing the movies have in common is that a comedian goes off the deep end. But they do so in very different ways, in movies with very different tones, at least telling from the Joker trailer.

AND... you've got the same actor playing a similar role as he did at least at the end of King of Comedy.

Obviously the tone will be different as King of Comedy was a mixture of pathos, pity, irony, satire and a healthy dose of actual dark comedy.

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Oh okay, but Robert De Niro is Joker seems to be playing a character more similar to Jerry Lewis's character from The King of Comedy, it s seems, in The Joker trailer.

Indeed... at the end of King of Comedy De Niro basically became Jerry Lewis (as many substitute hosts of the Tonight Show ended up taking the seat).

So, conceivably, as I pointed out in a former post, we could almost interpret or imagine this (the trailer anyway) as Rupert Pupkin still hosting the Jerry Langford Show decades after the conclusion of King of Comedy as history starts to repeat itself in a way - with an unknown comedian seeking a break, but who may be some kind of a nut like Pupkin himself was (or something far worse)... something Jerry actually warned Pupkin about as one of the pitfalls that may come with fame and which he (Pupkin) might have to deal with himself someday, should he ever achieve success.

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I agree that pepperoni pizza has nothing at all in common with cheese pizza.

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I guess I am not just seeing much of a Rupert Pukin connection just because it's played by the same actor, in another movie about a starving comedian.

That's like saying the movie The Girl (2012) is very similar to Bowfinger(1999), cause both movies are about directors doing crazy things to their lead actor, to get their movies made.

That's cool. I'm just engaging in some fun "what if" style speculation & imagination by drawing comparisons and identifying some apparent similarities (which may turn out to be the exact opposite).
And I have a thing for trying to connect unconnected fictional universes or continuities. ;)

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Yep and it's totally cool that people compared this to Scorsese, I just didn't see much of a similarity since there are lots of movies like this by different directors it seems :).

back then no one could have though of a joker without copying nicholson
ledger showed up and made a clockwork orange type of joker. now it's the same thing
no one knows how joaquin can make a joker without copying the previews
ledger was a dangerous pick for the dark knight, was a chance they've given him
joaquin on the other hand is the first pick for any role like this one at the moment
he have proven, by now, his the probably best actor alive of his generation
ledger on the other hand, had five previews good performances, one which was very good
joaquin uses his strongest natural characteristic, the eyes, and he shows emoticons true them
i can't think of anyone in this business that shows emotions true the eyes like joaquin
the bar is very high for this movie, and i can't wait to see it, but from the trailers - it won't top.

I don't think I've seen enough of Joaquin Phoenix's work to really appreciate him as an actor but what's there in the footage and trailers is really exciting. I'm looking forward to this film.

In terms of expressing emotion in the eyes/facially, Michael Fassbender's the only other actor I can think of where it feels a level beyond everyone else. I always go to Jeremy Brett as an example of an actor who was able to perfectly control and time his facial expressions and emotions, and Fassbender's that good. It may have been about Shame that Vera Farmiga said she was impressed at the variety of emotions he can show all at once. I think his only weakness really is accents – some are better than others.

You should fix that.

Well this film's probably going to be the first new experience. I can only think of him in Gladiator, Walk the Line and Signs.

I recommend Her, Quills, The Master (I don't like this movie, but he's excellent in it) and You Were Never Really Here. For his earlier work (not counting the ones he did as a kid) I recommend Inventing the Abbotts, Return to Paradise, and Clay Pigeons. He also has a small but hilarious role in U Turn.

He's good in everything. The only film he's in that I really, really don't recommend is Mary Magdelene.

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I want to see Mary Magdelene but did it ever get released?

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I doubt it, unless the Joker is recast. Phoenix doesn’t do sequels.

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Regardless of how good or bad it is, it doesn't look like a film that should get a sequel anyway. That would undermine its pretensions towards being a Serious Film.

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Well, has he done anything that would warrant a sequel?

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I guess not. Then it will be just like Dredd. A movie that many will cry out for more after seeing and then later find it was directed by somebody else.


Not really a dig at Phillips, but the influence is heavy in this, supposedly.

Maybe, maybe not, but according to what I’ve heard/read the fact that this is meant to be a one-off film was one of the reasons he took the role.

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Joker , have been and will be always that guy who is arguing with the law and harmess innocent people, they just try to get him in a way that people could see him as someone who was not like this always, but nah , for me will remain the same bastard "speaking only of the personaje of course"

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It won the Golden Lion at Venice.

That is...interesting.

Too bad he doesn't do sequels. Sometimes sequels are serious films (e.g. Godfather 2, Lord of the Rings Return of the King, etc.)

This is the next movie I'm planning to see.

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It actually looks good in the trailers so I hope it is. I never understood why Joker is the main Batman villain though, as I don't find anything about him stands out more compared to other Batman villains which seem better. And after all these years, he is still the arch-nemesis. I'd rather see an origin story movie of Two-Face or The Riddler, for example.

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Re: Joker origin Movie
 

The simplest way to put it is that Joker's chaos is the perfect antithesis to Batman's order so they are fundamentally primed for conflict from the start. Regarding other villains, I think it comes down to how much the villains are defined in relation to Batman himself and how much they can carry a movie without his presence to centre their development - The Dark Knight itself framed Two-Face and his chance-based vigilantism as being a compromise between the Joker's chaos and Batman's order, while the Riddler's trying to stump the World's Greatest Detective with his riddles.

What I'm finding surprising is that this is getting a 70mm release, which almost makes me curious enough to try seeking it out in that format just to see why it's getting such special treatment.

When I first heard of the movie and who was going to be Joker, wasn't that interested in it to be honest. But after watching the trailer, I might give it a watch.

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It's bad, but not quite as bad as I'd expected. Almost want to review it.

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It's all a conspiracy man. There's a dude in the bushes. Has he got a gun? I dunno! RED TEAM GO, RED TEAM GO.


I don't see how it can be that bad, but I will know soon enough.

Critics don't seem to like it (prob not enough trans leads). Audience seems to like it so far.

Is this going to tie in with Robert Pattinsons Batman or is this Joker a standalone?

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Last I checked, it had a 69% certified fresh on RT (nice), so most critics seem to like it...for now.

By all accounts, it's meant to be a standalone.

Admittedly I only briefly checked Metacritic this morning before work and it had 58 for critics and 8.9 audience score.

By no means definitive, and obv small sample size. Most critics seem to like it, but plenty gave it mixed/poor reviews.

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My inability to articulate has left me at an impasse when someone asks me to describe this movie and the controversy around it being floated in the media.

Jason Concepcion said this,

"If you are going to start listing down, what are the things that we should worry about that might push someone over the edge into committing a violent act. I would say the Joker is so far down the list as to be absurd."

Don't forget, you'll probably pass a Rambo poster before you go into this movie.

View Spoilers

WARNING: "What's next?" spoilers below

People can say there is never going to be a sequel, but there is no absolute. Why put the shot of Bruce over his slain parents and the implied connection between the two characters?

People can say there is never going to be a sequel, but there is no absolute. Why put the shot of Bruce over his slain parents and the implied connection between the two characters?

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Going to go see this in about 90 minutes. It's been years since I've been this excited to see a movie.

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The critics, or many of them, are wrong.

Joker is a remarkably grim, dark, sadistic film, and one of the most violent I've seen (there is one particular scene that truly shocked me and shook me up). Joker follows the theme of the misfit loner who goes crazy, and it's the best of its kind I've seen since Taxi Driver, which Joker borrows many of its ideas and elements from. It even feels like a Scorsese movie. And Joaquin Phoenix is captivating. I don't see anyone else worthy of the Oscar for Best Actor this year than him. As for the portrayal of the Joker character, it is hard to tell which actor in history played him better. Die-hard fans will probably say Nicholson or Ledger -I doubt Leto has a huge following. I believe Phoenix just entered the debate, and I can understand if many people will now say he's the best actor that played him.

I give the movie .

And I sure hope it remains a stand-alone film, and not some prequel to another unnecessary Batman series.

I'm about to go out again and need to gather my thoughts on the movie, but Phoenix's performance was absolutely stunning. Holy ****.

Personally, I'd love to see a sequel to this. They set it up nicely for one... an R rated one, a a Frank Miller one, which we haven't seen since Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy. But it could be darker, deeper and bloodier. I think it could revive the practically dead Batman franchise.

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It was good, I'd prefer the Wayne's weren't in it tbh, you could take anything Batman out of it and call it "Clown" and it would work better for me

Just curious: if there were no DC comics references in it whatsoever, and if it were indeed just an independent film titled "Clown," would people walk away saying, "Oh, that was just a rip off of the Joker! Bob Kane's, Bill Finger's and Jerry Robinson's estates should sue!"?

Or...

Would they say, "They ripped off Scorsese! That was just a darker version of King of Comedy! It was King of Comedy meets Taxi Driver!"?

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This was amazing. Absolutely amazing. Loved every second. My favorite movie of the year perhaps, after all the big ones either disappointed or didn't live up to the hype...

This might be my best movie-going experience since Mother in 2017.

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Was it Krusty who said everything is ripped off nowadays lol

I dunno man, for me they were the weaker parts of the film

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Wait tell ya guys rewatch it on the smaller screen, at home...then see if you still love it.

I guess my question was: take away the comics references & the title and would audiences have recognized this as Batman's Joker, or would it be seen as a stand alone original film having nothing to do with comic books or characters in previous movies?

One of the bigger issues I had with the film was the SJW politics in it. It's a film about violence but the only people who were allowed to be victims in the film were the awful white males. I liked the ambition of the film I felt like it captured 1980's New York well enough (still felt like a movie set unlike say The Deuce). My issue with the film is that it lacked focus, if it was going to be a political story then it really needed to focus on mental health not on wealth and politics. That should have played a much smaller role in the film that you discover on rewatches. This was very much Phillips aping Scorsese and he didn't get a lot of the points and messaging of those 70's and 80's Scorsese films.

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That's why I don't think it's a "great" movie. Take Joaquin's performance away and there isn't much here. Phillips just copied a bunch of stuff paid homage to a bunch of stuff. Hell, he even did the cop car window scene.


I gave this movie a

on the performance alone. If there was some semblance of movie behind it, this movie would have been great.

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Surprise, surprise! I loved the film. I'll watch again before saying more, but one thing I'm sure: the violence is well done!

.Actually, I heard that their algorithm isn't based on just fresh tomatoes, it's based on any rating that isn't "I wouldn't let my foot watch it." So a lot of critics might've thought it was just okay but collectively it's a high percentage. Just some information from a podcast of critics I thought I'd share.

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I had a miserable time and not the way I was supposed to. It just drags on and on about how terrible "JOkEr'S" life is with a pay off that just wasn't satisfying for me. It's edited like a trailer, the interesting concepts are thrown in the toilet, there's no coherent plot, the time period it's set in has nothing to do with anything that happens, it's emotionally manipulative, repetitive, and needlessly preachy, it's a waste of Phoenix's talent, it was horrifically boring and was basically some kid's passion project about mental health awareness with the so called Joker attached to it for safety. It's a bad mental health movie, it's a bad Joker movie, it is a bad. Movie. And until my husband and I get a car, I'm not going to the theater to watch anything else. This. Sucked.

Same, if only because I question the claim that this has great cinematography.



I do think the film is trying to draw a connection between mental health and wealth/politics, though - Arthur only really starts to lose control once his psychiatry program gets its funding cut and he can't get his meds, he finds out the "real" connection his mother has to Thomas Wayne (a billionaire who suddenly wants to go into politics, which sounds familiar), the way that rich figures like Wayne or Murray Franklin look down on him simply for existing while abnormal, etc. Definitely needed more focus, sure, but more on examining the connection between the topics than merely flip-flopping on which one deserved attention from one scene to the next.

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I don't think Joker is a great film, but as someone who's been through the mental health system like Arthur Fleck it resonated with me quite a bit. The system is just not built to help men who're severely mentally ill, just as the black woman in the beginning said. There are people who fall through the cracks and end up getting worse in spite of what the system tries to do. It's a very real problem, and to me the movie's trying to shine a light on that which is very nice to see.

People who understand the struggle of going through the mental health system, like myself, will get a lot more out of this movie than people who have no experience with it.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. Like if everyone were to rate on a scale from 1-10 then 1-5 would all be "rotten" and 6-10 would all be "fresh".

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Most likely the former.

So you're saying: take away all comic references and audiences would still identify this as DC's Joker?

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The comic fans probably would, but they probably wouldn't have watched it in the first place lol

Was a little surprised that Rex Reed gave Joker a glowing review:

https://observer.com/2019/10/joker-r...enix-rex-reed/

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No sequel, eh? Search the internet. Here's one I read.



My cynical nature wins again. After the movie comes out, now the quotes are flying.


Long live the Brothers Gotham!

Cool. It’s one of those situations where I hope to be wrong. :shrug:

Haven't watched it yet but a friend of mine said it was really good, so might have to check it out soon

Don't get mistaken, this film is not about the seventies and eighties in Gotham, its about a entire generation in the twenty first century.

So why isn't it set in the twenty first century? Why isn't it set in NY? Why did they make a movie about The Joker? This is why I hate this movie.

I didn't anticipated this before watching the film, I was expecting something different, I didn't expect to see much of my mentality, my view of society true the eyes of a anarchistic nihilist sociopath murderer, I came out of that theater with my emotional bag held by a thread, I was ashamed, not just his views but what he did with what he experienced, he tried to make people laugh, that is exactly my escape in day-life, if people, really close people actually knew what I think about certain subject they'd be blown away, I'm in a way hiding my perspectives from other people, like so many people do, so, the honesty I'm always talking about in this forum is something I don't really do in real life, here I don't care about ridicule because I don't know anyone here. The director would never tell you that he focused on today mindsets, how some, not to say most, because I can't talk for other people, see today society. There are more and more people that either do what everyone once did, try to belong, be accepted or be themselves and subject themselves to ridicule. Some people can adapt, other's can't. Isn't set in the twenty first century, isn't set in NY, is about the joker because of the audience he wanted to see his film, is exactly the audience that can, not just empathize, but see themselves in the character. The joker was the perfect character, no one knew what lead Arthur to become the joker, the author used what he believe is the mindset of most of the people he knew was going to watch his film, and he used that, successfully we can now say. We live in a depressed era, and this film is seen as dangerous because it offers a sense of glorification. Like Bukowski said:

Maybe that's where the disconnect is. Maybe it's because unlike most others, I don't nod along to anyone being preachy in order to make themselves sound smart so that they too can feel smart when they're just spitting the same trash anyone anywhere could spit without thinking about it. "Rich bad. Poor good. Mental health suck. We need fix system. Fight system. Is Joker btw. Just want bring u here to say 'we live in society.'" Maybe I just want a film that mixes the black and white paint a little bit. Maybe I want to be taken seriously and not be treated like the only way I'm going to listen to something so called "meaningful" is if you flash a silly character in my face. It's this approach to serious situations in life that's keeping them from being solved. Joker was personally a waste of my time and realistically a waste of everyone else's because it will be forgotten within the next year.

Because you personally didn't get anything out of it, the film is a waste of everyone's time? Get a grip. :rolleyes:

Well, I guess it's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. The magnificent and scary thing about opinions is that, everyone can have it's own, and in the end of the day no one really cares, because it's just another, and there are plenty, and the reason people also don't give them much importance is because they know the sources by what kind of opinion someone have, and this is not just about opinions, is about something that can really affect people, like this film showed in various ways, you fell alienated when you fell you don't have relevance, it's worse, far worse when you're naive to the point of not seeing what other people can do to you when you're authentic, that's the case of Arthur, his a grown man that's so naive, his like a child speaking about how he lives with his mother, like that's not a problem nowadays, being ridiculed for that, being supported by someone because they're just pitying you, so just he can joke about you the next day, you laughing at things other people don't, don't getting the jokes other people find funny, all the things that make you an easy target to those who own the labels and rules, to those who created insecurities, those are the rich people in this film. In the end Arthur accepts it, and introduced a little anarchy, that's the biggest common point between Taxi Driver and The Joker. This is not a film saying rich people are bad and poor people are good, that was not the intention, if you got that, please try to consider it otherwise, your seeing it superficially, this is much more than that, but I really can't explain, when I was watching the film it was personal, and I believe for some people was the same thing, that's why some love it, some hate it. I think the author managed to put a mirror in front of many people in the audience, me very-very much included. I was so naive while growing up, I got ridiculed so many times for how I saw things, and I learned how to adapt, this is a story of someone that didn't, and in the end he got tired of it all.