Debates pt II: Vice Presidents [Archive]

MovieMaker5087

10-05-04, 11:57 PM

I'm from Cleveland (well actually, a suburb of) and I must say the Republican's totally dominated. Edwards screwed up some, but both brought up good points and had good defensive come backs and arguements. Definently better than Bush's and Kerry's by far I must say.

Godsend

10-06-04, 12:01 AM

Wow. This was A LOT better then the Presys. ****, at times I thought they'd throw on boxing gloves or something. It was pretty intense, both of them shot some accurate shots and made the other shut up.

I liked Edwards charisma though...he stood out, over the depressed-look, dull Cheney. Cheney, also, went onto some important facts regarding Edwards comittment. Edwards shot back by showing that there is really no coalition, and its pretty much the states. Cheney then forwarded THAT to casualties, and Edwards shot back with his 90% figures of the deaths.

I look at it 50/50. Cheney brought up the good points, but he kept going on and on with the reports.

http://costofwar.com/

I don't know how accurate it is. For all I know, it could just be a friggin clock started at 87 bill.

OG-

10-06-04, 12:12 AM

I think they both brought up some very solid points, but I think all of Edwards' were just eclipsed by Cheney's far superior stance as an incredibly commanding speaker. I was more than impressed and I'm greatly opposed to the Republican ideals these days.

Cheney, regardless of physical appearance, was a machine in that debate. He almost made me want to vote for Bush. Then I remembered Bush is turd.

Also, did Cheney remind anyone else of the head of Monster's Inc? I was shocked when he actually stood up from behind that desk at the end instead of scuttling away on crab legs.

Yoda

10-06-04, 12:31 AM

Yeah, that was brutal. I almost felt like giving Edwards a hug. He's only served part of one term in the U.S. Senate, and he had to go toe-to-toe with Cheney, who's been in this game for decades.

The funny thing is, Edwards is way ahead in virtually every online poll being conducted on the major news sites. I wonder if this page (http://www.democrats.org/debates) on the Democratic National Committee's website has anything to do with it? Quote:

Your 10 minutes of activism following the debate can make the difference.

1. Vote in Online Polls

National and local news organizations will be conducting online polls during and after the debate asking for readers' opinions. Look for online polls at these news websites, and make sure to vote in every one of them:

OG-

10-06-04, 12:33 AM

A message like that is preaching to the choir, those people would have voted in those polls anyway.

Yoda

10-06-04, 12:44 AM

I dunno about that. They'd VOTE for Kerry/Edwards anyway (or "Kedwards," as James Taranto likes to call them), but I don't know that many of them would make some kind of special effort to effect post-debate spin. Given that Cheney won so definitively, yet Edwards is dominating the online polls, it seems pretty likely to me that the orchestrated attempt to effect the online polling is having an effect. Why else would there be such an incredible gap between the actual debate, and the online results?

OG-

10-06-04, 12:50 AM

7thson

10-06-04, 01:01 AM

Cheney was solid, which is what we need in the White House. Edwards, who did do well in this debate, just does not seem well...solid. His closing speech seemed IMO a bit contrived, and yes I know most things said in debates are contrived, but that was a bit too much for me. The glow of the TV set etc.etc.etc. bleh..:sick:

Yoda

10-06-04, 01:06 AM

Because I think you and I were more so taken with the rationality of what a debate entails and not concerned with the latent functions of one.

Godsend's post proves it. I didn't think it was possible to take a stance that Edwards came out as anything above Kerry's hyper shadow, yet he made a perfectly reasonable claim about it. That's a good point. You and I might be placing a greater premium on substance than others who were watching. I don't think Godsend is "perfectly reasonable" in giving such an enormous edge to mere "charisma," (which, frankly, I didn't think Cheney was lacking in, really. He drew a few laughs) but you're right in that we could be using a different measuring stick than some others.

OG-

10-06-04, 01:52 AM

I can understand that people would want charismatic government representitives who are attractive and project for America an image of vitality, so I can respect his admiring Edwards' charisma, but yes I do agree with you that that is in no way a reason to declare Edwards the winner when he so blatantly wasn't.

Cheney was like a robot. Like supercomputer!

I can't vouch if the statstics he constantly poured out of his mouth were indeed true, but he stated them with such convinction that I would have been a believer if I didn't know all politicians lie. Cheney was incredible at making every single thing he said sound like it was not up for debate at all, that it was a simple fact of the universe and he was almost insulted that he was being questioned about it. That is how you ****in' debate.

Plus Cheney was in Die Hard with a Vengeance, that gives him a +10 to badassness right there.

The debate still didn't sway my vote towards Bush, but I can respect the machine that was Cheney during that beating. Maybe I was just relating to his pacemaker though. :)

Piddzilla

10-06-04, 06:40 AM

The debate was going on while I was getting my beauty sleep so I haven't seen it yet. But this thread is incredibly interesting anyway. :D

The swedish news site that I visit the most has a completely different opinion than you guys. They say that the debate was a disappointment because it never created the tension that was expected between these two debaters. They also said that it was impossible to select a winner and that it was pretty much a tie.

The news site I am talking about is www.dn.se and it is the site of Sweden's largest and most important morning paper, the liberal independent Dagens Nyheter (liberal in Sweden means right wing). It's interesting because after the first Kerry/Bush debate they said that it was also hard to select a winner but they gave Kerry the advantage. And that debate I thought Kerry won without a doubt.

Diablo

10-06-04, 08:22 AM

Awe man... You telling me I missed it?? Damn...

OG-

10-06-04, 11:27 AM

Thanks for pointing that out Pid, I find that incredibly fascinating.

As against Republicans in the White House as I am, I just don't see how anyone could think that debate was a tie. I was watching the debate with my friend Mark who has very similiar political views to mine and we both thought Cheney killed it. I don't get it.

Garrett

10-06-04, 12:02 PM

I can't add much depth to this topic, but I'd like to point out that Cheney completely blew Edwards away.

Yoda

10-06-04, 12:51 PM

:suspicious:

Aniko

10-06-04, 01:37 PM

I definately didn't see the debate as a draw. Cheney was very impressive. He was confident and strong. I found myself wishing he were running for president. Edwards was ok, but he seemed to rehash his words/issues alot...and if I remember correctly, even the moderator pointed out at one point that Edwards didn't answer her question.

Whatever magic Edwards was trying for last night didn't work for me. Cheney's the man!

2wrongs

10-06-04, 02:24 PM

The debate made Edwards look like a child compared to Cheney. I'd be one frightened little girl to go up against Cheney in a debate. The man does his homework! He's a machine. I like how Edwards was reduced to pointing at Cheney and basicly doin' a "he started it!"
What a baby. Cheney kicked ass.

OG-

10-06-04, 03:00 PM

I watched it on CNN and one of the commentators pointed out that Cheney's voice is "like a sedative". It really is. Listening to him talk was like having cough syrup poured directly into my brain. It was incredibly seductive. I imagine Joesph Goebbels spoke in much of the same manner.

I too wish he were running for president simply because he seems far more capable of making important decisions than Bush does...well anyone does. But he still stands for many, many things I am against and could thus never bring myself to vote for him regardless of how seductive of a speaker he is. Hell, he supports a constitutional ammendment to ban same sex marriages while admiting that he is morally against it.

2wrongs

10-06-04, 03:25 PM

Hell, he supports a constitutional ammendment to ban same sex marriages while admiting that he is morally against it.
Morally against the ban or morally against same sex marriages?

Henry The Kid

10-06-04, 04:19 PM

I didn't see it as anywhere near as one-sided as you all did. I thought they were both equal in rehashing ideas, though Cheney was probably a bit better at it.

All in all, what a lame set of candidates. The libertarians are debating the green party, I believe. Or they might already have. Now THAT is something that should be watched.

OG-

10-06-04, 04:41 PM

Morally against the ban or morally against same sex marriages?

Morally against the ban. At least that is what I gathered, he gave up his 30 seconds of response to that issue, so maybe he did or didn't mean that.

Godsend

10-06-04, 06:32 PM

People believe Cheney won cause he was so out forwarded. He went straight to the facts, leaving the elaborate details behind. Edwards, on the other hand, threw in his case of giving detail and getting to the point.

ex.: Cheney said "Just take a look at his record" That's big cause we can tell by the tone of his voice its not quite the healthy record.

Edwards threw in his speech about cornering Osama in Tora Bora, or how he visited Israel (I believe) and what had happened, or how he used to see his dad trying to educate himself.

In the end, Edwards threw himself out to be the more sensible, humble man of the two. Though Cheney was like the ultimate soldier, he was thrown down by the fact of what Edwards has experienced and what American's has felt.

Cheney also said he comes from a poor background, but comparing those times to now times it quite difficult.

Garrett

10-06-04, 06:35 PM

:suspicious:

Not this viewer.

OG-

10-06-04, 06:43 PM

Cheney also said he too has had heart surgery while he was not covered on health insurance...unless this happend when he was two, I'd think it were a safe bet that he could afford to pay for it, unlike the average Joe sans health insurance. Alot of the things he said about himself made him look like an *******, but he just made Edwards look like a chump.