View Full Version : America is for Hypocrisy (not democracy) Warning:may be offensive
Peasant
08-29-04, 11:46 AM
Oh America (U.S.A) !!!
The land where you can have it both ways? John Kerry
or
The land where you can have it one way? George Bush
In america you can be considered at 12 yrs. old, an Adult and a minor at the same time. You see if your 12, you lack the understanding of sexual intimacy (people over 18 know so much more). Now if youmurdersomeone you are now an Adult (lucky you). You see even though you do not have the capability to understand the complexity of sex (although you see it all around you all the time).You are able to understand the complexity of a life sentence and the value of life. It will not be to long before america executes 12 yr olds by the truck loads.Since it keeps adults over 18 from commiting murder. Murder is the only unforgivable sin (according to some). For a christian, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the only one. This is stated by the illustrious and elusive leader of christians, Jesus (you have to wonder about a guy who says he will come like a thief in the night).
In america you can be convicted of the same crime twice. Despite what that annoying piece of paper (the constitution) states. Now you can be found not guilty of a criminal charge (even though you could be guilty).Then you can be found guilty of the same charge in a civil lawsuit. You see justice does work out for everyone. Even though gay sex is legal (which is what many people have the real problem with). A civil union is out of the question. If you stop that, then you stop the gay relationship. Since suddenly marriage has become sacred again. That is why you have to love those same people who protest loudly in the streets when a christian wants a divorce (is that still a sin?). Of course there are your daily " Who Wants To Marry ....." reality shows, that gets just as much attention as the gay couple. Will George Bush ban all divorces for christians next? I mean God still hates divorce does God not? I mean, I thought I read that somewhere.
In america you can worship as you wish. You can even use the bible to justify slavery. Then ignore it long enough, to father 5 kids with your wifes sister (who is 3/5 of a person fyi). You can commit treason, just make sure you write down your reasons (call it something catchy like "Declaration of ...").Then you will be a hero hundreds of years later. Make sure you commit mass murder also. Then condemn other countries of doing the same thing (at least you will have a good reason *casinos*). Then impose sanctions (it won't hurt the citizens) to punish the leader(s) of the country. They can figure out how to subdue millions, but could never get sanctioned goods into their country for themselves anyway.
...Right.
Errr... welcome, happy posting.
LordSlaytan
08-29-04, 12:17 PM
Man...that's one ****ing wicked movie dude is talking about.
Now, where's my bong?
Tea Barking
08-29-04, 01:29 PM
All this time i tought this was a movie fourm, but all along its a forum about american politics and religion, man do i feel stupid.
Piddzilla
08-29-04, 04:41 PM
All this time i tought this was a movie fourm, but all along its a forum about american politics and religion, man do i feel stupid.
Actually, you were right the first time. It is a movie forum.
SamsoniteDelilah
08-29-04, 05:01 PM
My eyes just rolled all the way out of my head...
Peasant
08-29-04, 08:57 PM
Well everyone makes mistakes. It seems that someone unwittingly spelled "movie" as "miscellaneous" (the nerve). That made me think, I could write about a variety of topics for some reason. Well all this time I thought Blockbuster was a "video store", but all along it's a "CANDY STORE" that sells videos. What next? A street vendor who sells hotdogs, popcorn etc.Then gets the "crazy" idea to move inside, where he shows motion pictures on a big screen and calls it a "movie theatre"( you don't fool me street vendor).
AboveTheClouds
08-29-04, 09:06 PM
Riiiiight.
The Silver Bullet
08-29-04, 09:22 PM
"I ated the purple berries."
http://www.stickergiant.com/Merchant2/imgs/ssim49.gif
Godsend
08-29-04, 09:42 PM
-Drum Roll-
And welcome to 2004! Where your dreams are no longer dreams, but hallucinations as you sleep and live.
Where the trusting of one friends lead to the killing of another.
Ameri..err...Life, the Beautiful.
Don't blame America. Blame mankind.
Edit: Don't mistake mankind for the wrestler Mankind....two BIG differences. :rolleyes:
Anonymous Last
08-30-04, 11:28 AM
-Drum Roll-
Don't blame America. Blame mankind.
I always blame it on the store bought hormones.
Tea Barking
08-30-04, 03:16 PM
Blame it on the boogie
Agent 0 Zero
08-30-04, 10:10 PM
I woke up today, and when I entered school, my teacher greated me with an God Bless America. I answered back **** America. This Country has many problems with it system of everything. America is a country were we can, have "so called weapons of mass destruction", and then bomb the next people who have them.
America a country were almost every race on this so called land of the free, has been a product of racism. I know that not every place is perfect or has no real freedom, infact I'd like nothing better then to have total Anarchy every where.
A country were, we don't have any unity periode, especially politics, and wealth. Just think what would happen if we had no 2 houses, one of the common man the other for, the richer man. We would have a more of an equal oppurtunity for better development in this land.
I don't like america but I wouldn't want to live, any where else some places are even worse here, and It's not America's fault, its the people, and greed that exsist in mankind.
Monkeypunch
08-30-04, 10:40 PM
Hey, enough with the america hating! I mean, yeah i hate the government as it currently stands, but i mean I do not hate the country, and neither should anyone else. The people and its government are two totally different things! If you don't like the world, quit yer b*tchin' and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! I am so sick of people complaining about they hate this or they hate that, but then they just sit on their arses and do nothing!!!
Oh, and Peasant.....Django, is that you?!? lol
Tea Barking
08-30-04, 10:44 PM
Equal oppurtunity for better development in this land in total Anarchy?
Godsend
08-30-04, 10:45 PM
Hey, enough with the america hating! I mean, yeah i hate the government as it currently stands, but i mean I do not hate the country, and neither should anyone else. The people and its government are two totally different things! If you don't like the world, quit yer b*tchin' and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! I am so sick of people complaining about they hate this or they hate that, but then they just sit on their arses and do nothing!!!
Oh, and Peasant.....Django, is that you?!? lol
Yeah...lets do something about it! Radicals>>>Terrorism>>>Fcuked!
:rolleyes: In other words, the DEA, NSA, FBI, CIA aren't scared to put a bullet in mine or your head. Kapiche?
Monkeypunch
08-30-04, 10:50 PM
Yeah...lets do something about it! Radicals>>>Terrorism>>>Fcuked!
:rolleyes: In other words, the DEA, NSA, FBI, CIA aren't scared to put a bullet in mine or your head. Kapiche?
Ok, you clearly have a different idea about changing the world than i do. I mean that people can make a difference in a non violent, positive way instead of whining about it.
Anonymous Last
08-30-04, 11:43 PM
Remember the good old days when Coca Cola taught the whole world to sing in perfect harmony?
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~spires/Max/Images/max2.gif
I woke up today, and when I entered school, my teacher greated me with an God Bless America. I answered back **** America.
Charmingly executed. That's almost as rude as it is unlikely.
I was going to take this argument apart piece by piece, but, as I realized with Peasant's initial post, it's far too replete with general incorrectness (not just grammatically, folks) and far too obviously lacking in original, critical thinking for me to even attempt wrestling with logically.
As happens far too often in political discourse, I have a distinct feeling
that obstinance will win out over reason on this one.
So keep on trucking, you rebels! You gentleman are fresh ideas in action, so ripe with epiphany and so in touch with the streets that you frighten my sheltered intellect and endanger my capitalist, aristocratic ideals! Don't do what the MAN tells you, but follow the lone voice of reason yelled out by that other MAN! And be sure to do it blindly, else you might get in the way of the movement!
Anonymous Last
08-31-04, 04:28 PM
It might, it might not...I wouldn’t be overly concerned about it, were I you. Any of you…
Godsend
08-31-04, 05:45 PM
Ok, you clearly have a different idea about changing the world than i do. I mean that people can make a difference in a non violent, positive way instead of whining about it.
Even protests usually lead to worse things, such as jail and what not. These unruly protestors assualts officers, trash things usually in the name of Justice. :rolleyes:
Agent 0 Zero
08-31-04, 06:10 PM
Charmingly executed. That's almost as rude as it is unlikely.
I was going to take this argument apart piece by piece, but, as I realized with Peasant's initial post, it's far too replete with general incorrectness (not just grammatically, folks) and far too obviously lacking in original, critical thinking for me to even attempt wrestling with logically.
As happens far too often in political discourse, I have a distinct feeling
that obstinance will win out over reason on this one.
So keep on trucking, you rebels! You gentleman are fresh ideas in action, so ripe with epiphany and so in touch with the streets that you frighten my sheltered intellect and endanger my capitalist, aristocratic ideals! Don't do what the MAN tells you, but follow the lone voice of reason yelled out by that other MAN! And be sure to do it blindly, else you might get in the way of the movement!
Hold on one second. What are you trying to say here? Are you trying to be sarcastic?
Monkeypunch
08-31-04, 06:23 PM
Even protests usually lead to worse things, such as jail and what not. These unruly protestors assualts officers, trash things usually in the name of Justice. :rolleyes:
I swear if you roll your eyes at me one more damn time.....
America a country were almost every race on this so called land of the free, has been a product of racism. I know that not every place is perfect or has no real freedom, infact I'd like nothing better then to have total Anarchy every where. Interesting idea. I presume you can point to an instance in recorded history where anarchy produced a free, happy, peaceful society then, right?
I'll give anyone here 10-to-1 odds that this kid's a white high schooler who lives in the suburbs and loves Fight Club.
A country were, we don't have any unity periode, especially politics, and wealth. Just think what would happen if we had no 2 houses, one of the common man the other for, the richer man. We would have a more of an equal oppurtunity for better development in this land. The benefits the "richer man" has he has generally because he earned them through innovation or ingenuity of some sort. It's called the profit motive, and without it, your computer probably wouldn't exist.
:rolleyes: In other words, the DEA, NSA, FBI, CIA aren't scared to put a bullet in mine or your head. Kapiche?How many of you family members (or close friends) have been murdered by the government, out of curiousity?
Henry The Kid
08-31-04, 06:50 PM
How many of you family members (or close friends) have been murdered by the government, out of curiousity?
Literally? Because I think they did kill my soul. That's... a form of killing.
Sorry. Non-metaphorical deaths only.
Agent 0 Zero
08-31-04, 08:43 PM
Interesting idea. I presume you can point to an instance in recorded history where anarchy produced a free, happy, peaceful society then, right?
You know what when I read you'r reply, I wondered don't mess with the moderators, but you know what just for that comment I will. Yes there has been an a time were anarchy has provailed as an better choice. If look at the Americans ( not the fake one's, I mean the native American's) lived in an anarchy like life style. They had everything a man, woman, and child wanted true freedom, and every one was united. If one person went out to hunt the others went to.
I'll give anyone here 10-to-1 odds that this kid's a white high schooler who lives in the suburbs and loves Fight Club.
Well your odds are wrong, because if you look in the Mofo Pictures thread my brother is mixed and not even close to being white. So please before you go, and make unnecessary comments, get your facts straight.
The benefits the "richer man" has he has generally because he earned them through innovation or ingenuity of some sort. It's called the profit motive, and without it, your computer probably wouldn't exist.
Benifits of what "richer man"? Lets be serious half of thoose guys in there arent there to help the people out and they don't plan to. You want to talk about innovation and/or ingenuity of a sort, than lets talk about J.F.K, Martin Luther King, or other political figures, that instead of sitting ther whineing about the problems they made a change.
How many of you family members (or close friends) have been murdered by the government, out of curiousity?
You want to talk about murder or unrighteousness, as in a sarcastic way, as if its never happened before. Lets talk about how plots and assassination plans brought america where it is today, a powder keg waiting to explode. How many people have been killed by the Gov., you probaly wonder. Three, three people in my life have died because of unnecessary war's, if you ask me that seems like a goverment murder. This country is based off of one thing money. People in general have died for this country, ask any of thoose people in the white house, or the senate to go fight a war they won't get off there asses and do it, they'd rather wait till the victor shows up.The people sitting in thoose chairs in the court rooms don't care about whats wrong and whats right, but who gets the cash in the end. For the record Monkey punch I do try my best as a citizen to make this country better, I do participate in things, to help, and that is what this country needs but I don't see if not one person around me, even as type right now there probaly argueniing over who's wrong and who's, but instead of comming together as one and making things better they still continue. Let give you all an example, today in school, I was a my table talking, and while talking, a friend of mine was talking about the election. Quickly they began argueing about whos better Bush, or Kerry, then it ****ted to aids, war, racial descrimination, I can't stand it when people argue about stupid things like. It's like an old couple. Many people claim to say they would die for this country, but what if some guy came in with a gun, maybe a someone who hate America. THell kill you if you wish to die for this counrty, if you dont want to die, then he'll blow up the country. See, as he points this gun towards you your whole brief history of knowledge of this counrty appears before you. You wonder me die for this country?..... Um.... No!!!!! lets be real here. If you were to ask me would I take the bullet yes hell yes I would. Because I figure we have work so hard to achieve so little of what we need, why stop it all now.. But say what to want, but if America does not change , or change now the people will revolt. So go ahead say they my view on this is very derogative and packed with ideals, and goals that are plan stupid, but I'll never change my view. America is not the true free country it is made out to be. Take it as a ruler were only at ssix inches, and we need the six to complete the foot. America Is Not Just the only thing on Earth Screwed up. This whole planet is, except for animals we seriously need help
I read this and I thought to myself: Is this worth a response. I said no, but then again I am not one to keep my mouth shut either. Therefore I wrote a little essay entitled: What does America mean to me. Here it goes:
What America Means to Me
I can go home after a hard days work and drink my beer, have sex with my girlfriend, watch a movie, and have another beer. What more could a guy ask for?
Hope you all liked my essay, I actually started to write a serious one, but figured I needed a beer first, sorry.;)
Agent 0 Zero
08-31-04, 09:15 PM
I read this and I thought to myself: Is this worth a response. I said no, but then again I am not one to keep my mouth shut either. Therefore I wrote a little essay entitled: What does America mean to me. Here it goes:
What America Means to Me
I can go home after a hard days work and drink my beer, have sex with my girlfriend, watch a movie, and have another beer. What more could a guy ask for?
Hope you all liked my essay, I actually started to write a serious one, but figured I needed a beer first, sorry.;)
:laugh: we need some humor, its to uptight here!
Peasant
09-01-04, 01:41 AM
In my initial post I wanted to refute the idea, that america is the "ideal" society or the "greatest" country on earth (it does provide a world of opportunity for many). I am aware that americans are not one monolith group of people. I was trying to convey: while the world has it's problems, so does america. I feel america is as "intrusive" as it is "influential". The entire world does not share the same ideals as america. This misunderstanding is why Osama bin Laden is still WANTED: DEAD OR ALIVE. Raising the reward is evidence of american thinking (everyone has a price *sigh*). I mean anything less than 25 million had to be an insult.
When a politician chastises China for it's human rights policy, (I don't agree with the treatment of their people, so leave the dreadful attempts at sarcasm alone) when it comes from a goverment that ALL BUT eradicated an entire race of people. It just makes you look like a schmuck. Does america have 1 billion+ people in country. No, well then you have the human right to SHUT THE HELL UP!!! When you have that many people living in bliss. Let the flow of wisdom begin.
I do realize that some people do not like the UGLY part of history. To write the truth off as "general incorrectness" is indicative of people who like the "fairy tale" version of history. I meet people who have been bamboozled to believe ancient egyptians were "european in feature" and it's sad. So, is Shaka Zulu the military equivalent to Alexander the Great or was he just "a savage"? Jenghis Khan, I'll just leave that alone for now. I met a lady from Montana and we dicussed native american life (prior to the genocide). This women did not understand why the "ungrateful indians" as she called them, destroyed the nice houses the goverment built for them. Perhaps, the same reason you wouldn't want to live in a treehouse, made by the man who killed most of your family?
Listen to the "fairy tale" and the Crusaders (no, they never pillaged any villages) were "noble men" trying to free the Holy Land from muslims (yes, I realize this is euro-christian but it's the same mentality that followed into america). I do not hate america, but the lack of understanding other cultures is a problem. In no way do I feel that america had the "best interest" of the Iraqi people at heart. That is all just a byproduct (band-aid) of the debacle. The same with Afghanistan (which should have been completed 1st).
Lastly, I find it insincere when politicians use 9/11 as a platform (just my feeling). It turns the tragedy into a cheap whore. It is used just like a timeout in football (nothing to say? Mention 9/11). A great way to turn tragedy into triumph. I do applaud those who have decided to seek truth for themselves (whether it's white,black, red, gray, ...). I salute those brave people in the rest of the world. That deal with a 9/11 every other day and don't need a memorial for every bad day in their history. To remind them that life is precious.
Peace to you all
That deal with a 9/11 every other day and don't need a memorial for every bad day in their history. To remind them that life is precious.
Is there a place in the world that deals with that many people dying ever other day due to a direct terroist attack? Tell Bush he may want to get directions there. Seriously though I see what you are trying to say, but I also think you are doing a bit of what you are condeming. Why mention 9/11 at all.. After all it is helping you in an attempt to prove a point, so you have jumped on the whore too one could say. I also think that you misunderstand the true meaning of what a memorial represents, but hey maybe it is me who is confused.:confused:
Peasant
09-02-04, 08:04 AM
Is there a place in the world that deals with that many people dying ever other day due to a direct terroist attack?
Yes, Sudan in Africa is one. I don't merit the attack by the number of people killed. Based on your question, I will infer that you do. The numbers of dead are estimated between 15,000 - 30,000 in the Sudan. That dwarfs the number killed on 9/11 (is it any less tragic?). It would be like comparing a cold to pneumonia if I used that reasoning.
Seriously though I see what you are trying to say, but I also think you are doing a bit of what you are condeming. Why mention 9/11 at all.. After all it is helping you in an attempt to prove a point, so you have jumped on the whore too one could say.
Perhaps, I should have used "terroist attacks" instead of "9/11". I attempted to covey the idea, that a "terroist attack" happens frequently in other countries, but they don't put up a memorial everytime. In Isreal if people are bombed in a nightclub or a pizza parlor. They rebuild it and move on with life. I don't feel I have contradicted myself, because I did not use "9/11" to:
a) achieve or hold a political office (it's not the only issue for a country)
b) achieve celebrity status as a "hero" (police or fireman from NY do this anytime they are on t.v.)
c) emulate false patriotism (were people patriots before or afterwards?)
or
d) benefit from it financially (e.g. 9/11 books, Fahrenheit 9/11, and other such marketing)
I also think that you misunderstand the true meaning of what a memorial represents, but hey maybe it is me who is confused.:confused:
I don't think a memorial is a bad thing, in and of its self. I just feel americans can overly use and exploit the meaning. When it trancends into marketable memorabilia (e.g. books,coins,stamps,mugs,watches etc....) it's sad. I felt insulted when they tried to peddle "Princess Diana" memorabilia.
America Is Not Just the only thing on Earth Screwed up. This whole planet is, except for animals we seriously need help
ahem...
Perhaps, I should have used "terroist attacks" instead of "9/11". I attempted to covey the idea, that a "terroist attack" happens frequently in other countries, but they don't put up a memorial everytime. In Isreal if people are bombed in a nightclub or a pizza parlor. They rebuild it and move on with life. I don't feel I have contradicted myself, because I did not use "9/11" to:
a) achieve or hold a political office (it's not the only issue for a country)
b) achieve celebrity status as a "hero" (police or fireman from NY do this anytime they are on t.v.)
c) emulate false patriotism (were people patriots before or afterwards?)
or
d) benefit from it financially (e.g. 9/11 books, Fahrenheit 9/11, and other such marketing)
Still you used it, all I am saying.
projectMayhem
09-02-04, 02:05 PM
America a country were almost every race on this so called land of the free, has been a product of racism. I know that not every place is perfect or has no real freedom, infact I'd like nothing better then to have total Anarchy every where.
So you aknowledge the fact that racism is a problem, yet you wish for an anarchy where people's hatred would remain unchecked and they could feel free to just kill anyone they didn't like without any consequences? Good thinking man.
Anonymous Last
09-02-04, 02:10 PM
So you aknowledge the fact that racism is a problem, yet you wish for an anarchy where people's hatred would remain unchecked and they could feel free to just kill anyone they didn't like without any consequences? Good thinking man.
Good times...aint we lucky we got 'em?
You want to talk about murder or unrighteousness, as in a sarcastic way, as if its never happened before. Not at all. I just have enough perspective to realize that injustice has always existed, and will always exist, and that lashing out at the insitutions and countries which have been most successful in minimizing them isn't going to help one damn bit.
For all its flaws, America has secured more individual freedom and justice for its citizens (and, indeed, even for those who are not its citizens) than a great many other countries throughout history. The difference between us is not that you believe there is injustice in the world, and I do not. No, the difference is that I don't think we should tear down what progress we've made simply because there's more to be done.
The people sitting in thoose chairs in the court rooms don't care about whats wrong and whats right, but who gets the cash in the end. For the record Monkey punch I do try my best as a citizen to make this country better, I do participate in things, to help, and that is what this country needs but I don't see if not one person around me, even as type right now there probaly argueniing over who's wrong and who's, but instead of comming together as one and making things better they still continue. Let give you all an example, today in school, I was a my table talking, and while talking, a friend of mine was talking about the election. Quickly they began argueing about whos better Bush, or Kerry, then it ****ted to aids, war, racial descrimination, I can't stand it when people argue about stupid things like. It's like an old couple. If you're annoyed by discussion and debate, then that's just something you need to get over, because both are essential to human progress. Hell, you're engaging in both right now by reading this, and responding. Everyone is frustrated by injustice and bickering over how best to deal with it, but advocating some ridiculous non-solution like anarchy out of sheer frustration is immature and foolish. While you throw up your hands in anger and despair, those people arguing like "old couples" are working out solutions.
Quit being a part of the problem.
America Is Not Just the only thing on Earth Screwed up. This whole planet is, except for animals we seriously need helpMost animals I know run around wildly eating and killing anything they want to without any regard for most other living creatures. None of them show any concern for their environment or other species. How in the hell does that make us the screwed up ones? Do you think there are panthers having discussions like this right now?
In my initial post I wanted to refute the idea, that america is the "ideal" society or the "greatest" country on earth (it does provide a world of opportunity for many). I am aware that americans are not one monolith group of people. I was trying to convey: while the world has it's problems, so does america. I feel america is as "intrusive" as it is "influential". The entire world does not share the same ideals as america. This misunderstanding is why Osama bin Laden is still WANTED: DEAD OR ALIVE. Raising the reward is evidence of american thinking (everyone has a price *sigh*). I mean anything less than 25 million had to be an insult. Putting a bounty on a known terrorist is hardly a bad thing; rather, it seeks to take a human flaw (greed) and put it to good use; same as capitalism.
No one is suggesting that the "entire world" shares Americas ideals, and America is not forcing what ideals it has on anyone. You can't FORCE freedom, by definition. Liberty is not a cultural preference.
When a politician chastises China for it's human rights policy, (I don't agree with the treatment of their people, so leave the dreadful attempts at sarcasm alone) when it comes from a goverment that ALL BUT eradicated an entire race of people. It just makes you look like a schmuck. Does america have 1 billion+ people in country. No, well then you have the human right to SHUT THE HELL UP!!! When you have that many people living in bliss. Let the flow of wisdom begin. How can it make us look like schmucks when not a single one of us had anything to do with it? The US government is not a person, it is a collection of people and laws. No one alive today had any control over how America was founded, or what it did to the Native Americans. If you're suggesting that people should inherit the sins of their ancestors, you'll soon find that every human being is outrageously guilty.
America is right to criticize countries with poor human rights records. If only the totally innocent can speak up, you're going to be left with silence.
Listen to the "fairy tale" and the Crusaders (no, they never pillaged any villages) were "noble men" trying to free the Holy Land from muslims (yes, I realize this is euro-christian but it's the same mentality that followed into america). I do not hate america, but the lack of understanding other cultures is a problem. In no way do I feel that america had the "best interest" of the Iraqi people at heart. That is all just a byproduct (band-aid) of the debacle. The same with Afghanistan (which should have been completed 1st). Spurning Democracy is not like building a treehouse; if we were only to move into Iraq after Afghanistan was pristine, we might've waited a decade, if not more. That said, progress has been relatively swift there; the people are taking to Democracy in droves. Enormous numbers of adults in Afghanistan have already registered to vote, and hundreds are vying for public office.
As for the Crusades: it was an ugly response to an ugly threat. They were right to respond, but surely did so in extreme, unjustifiable ways. I don't see how that particularly supports any of the claims you're making, however, unless you're simply trying to say "hey, people screw up sometimes," in which case, well, duh.
Lastly, I find it insincere when politicians use 9/11 as a platform (just my feeling). It turns the tragedy into a cheap whore. It is used just like a timeout in football (nothing to say? Mention 9/11). A great way to turn tragedy into triumph. I do applaud those who have decided to seek truth for themselves (whether it's white,black, red, gray, ...). I salute those brave people in the rest of the world. That deal with a 9/11 every other day and don't need a memorial for every bad day in their history. To remind them that life is precious. Humans are built so that such reminders are generally the most effective way to keep the lessons learned from the tragedy fresh in people's minds. As for the political implications of 9/11: I don't see any major figure using it unfairly. Merely mentioning it is perfectly reasonable, as it spawned a great many new policies. To pretend it didn't happen, and to leave it out of the public discourse, would be ridiculous.
I have been to many countries, and for the most part I get the sense that a lot of people would love to live in America. I wonder why that is? Because it is better than the country they are in. America has its faults and trust me I know there are many, but on a scale I think it is near the top. Me I would love to live in Spain, the beaches there are great and most of the women go topless. Australia looks like fun too; a whole country full of rednecks, my god that would be heaven.
Peasant
09-03-04, 12:23 AM
Putting a bounty on a known terrorist is hardly a bad thing; rather, it seeks to take a human flaw (greed) and put it to good use; same as capitalism.
This same thinking encouraged the westward expansion of america. It was a free pass to destroy another way of life. So, by your reasoning "evil" is "good" when it justifies the agenda. This can work both ways. You can exploit a human flaw (arrogance) and turn in innocent people for money. The point is people are not protecting Osama, because the reward is too little. He is regarded as a hero to many muslims. It would be like an american turning in George Washington, during the Revolutionary War. Sure you would find a few willing, but not enough to make him "public enemy #1". In a nutshell, it defeats the purpose.
No one is suggesting that the "entire world" shares Americas ideals, and America is not forcing what ideals it has on anyone. You can't FORCE freedom, by definition. Liberty is not a cultural preference.
I disagree, when I see the invasion of "american" culture in countries like Saudi Arabia. When american women refuse to respect the muslim way of life. They consider the women "unfortunate" and "pity" them. You don't think "liberty" is synonymous with american culture!? I think the average american would disagree with you (if not the entire world). Why is it embedded in the american constitution then?
How can it make us look like schmucks when not a single one of us had anything to do with it? The US government is not a person, it is a collection of people and laws. No one alive today had any control over how America was founded, or what it did to the Native Americans. If you're suggesting that people should inherit the sins of their ancestors, you'll soon find that every human being is outrageously guilty.
My point exactly; every human being is guilty. That's why I find it hypocritical to admonish other countries for their track record. Riddle me this Batman (Yoda). Did anyone alive today have any control of the Civil Rights movement? Do americans deny homosexuals civil liberties? Do americans still execute people? Do americans give children (under 18) Life Sentences? Yes, then with these few current examples. I will say yes, it makes a person look like a "schmuck" (if not worse). Did americans appreciate it, when Great Britain admonished them for its use of slavery? My point is other countries are learning also.
America is right to criticize countries with poor human rights records. If only the totally innocent can speak up, you're going to be left with silence.
This statment is either arrogant/naive (I'm not sure which since I don't know you). I will keep this simple. By what authority has America gained the Right to criticize any person (let alone a country) outside of U.S. citizenship?
Spurning Democracy is not like building a treehouse; if we were only to move into Iraq after Afghanistan was pristine, we might've waited a decade, if not more. That said, progress has been relatively swift there; the people are taking to Democracy in droves. Enormous numbers of adults in Afghanistan have already registered to vote, and hundreds are vying for public office.
So, what is your point? Iraq was no more dangerous than any other "rogue" (by u.s. accounts) nation. Where was the concern for "human rights" in the Iraq of the 80's? The invasion was due to animosity left over from the 1st invasion. Now, Iraq is a cesspool for terroism (becoming a greater danger). Your statment sounds like a Fox News Channel (which is bias to begin with) account verbatim. How long do think this (cut and paste) "democracy" will last after american forces leave? After america ignored the rest of the world. It's not as creditable as it once was. Also, someone needs to tell the N. Koreans "help is on the way" (since america wants to fight injustice).
As for the Crusades: it was an ugly response to an ugly threat. They were right to respond, but surely did so in extreme, unjustifiable ways. I don't see how that particularly supports any of the claims you're making, however, unless you're simply trying to say "hey, people screw up sometimes," in which case, well, duh.
What threat? The crusades started due to civil unrest in Europe. Pope Urban II was an opportunist, he used the crusades to solve his own problems. It was a ploy distracting people from the obvious "threat" (themselves).
Humans are built so that such reminders are generally the most effective way to keep the lessons learned from the tragedy fresh in people's minds. As for the political implications of 9/11: I don't see any major figure using it unfairly. Merely mentioning it is perfectly reasonable, as it spawned a great many new policies. To pretend it didn't happen, and to leave it out of the public discourse, would be ridiculous.
Do you think americans have learned from the Roman Empire? It's on the same path (my point is history repeats) and memorials are important to the generations that made them (treated with apathy by future generations). I don't have a problem with mentioning 9/11. It just seems that the current U.S. administration, has been defined by it. They don't just "mention" 9/11. They make entire speeches from it (playing on the emotions of the people). 9/11 will be referenced to or "mentioned" as much as possible during the RNC. Why didn't people learn from the 1st World Trade Center bombing? So, if we follow this account in 10 years 9/11 will be a distant memory. Only thought of when the next disaster strikes. :(
I didn't read that all, but you took some time to write it, so here's some rep.
Peasant
09-03-04, 12:52 AM
I have been to many countries, and for the most part I get the sense that a lot of people would love to live in America. I wonder why that is? Because it is better than the country they are in. America has its faults and trust me I know there are many, but on a scale I think it is near the top. Me I would love to live in Spain, the beaches there are great and most of the women go topless. Australia looks like fun too; a whole country full of rednecks, my god that would be heaven.
Many people in the world think that all americans are "rich" . Compared to the extreme poverty in some places; it's true. You have mentioned some great places. Check out Japan, if you get the chance. :D
sunfrog
09-03-04, 01:17 AM
Stop it Yoda. Haven't you gotten help for your problem yet? Bye! I'm running away now.
Anonymous Last
09-03-04, 11:31 AM
Just watch it now. (http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon121.swf )
Just watch it now. (http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon121.swf )
Hey, I already posted that!
No one knows what crashed into the Pentagon, all surveillance footage from the surrounding area (that had a clear view of the crash) was confiscated within minutes by the FBI, and never been released.
All thats been released are FIVE pictures showing the crash, and an object that is NOT a plane.
Here's a flash on the pentagon crash:
http://thehardrive.com/panzer/pentagon.swf
Anonymous Last
09-03-04, 01:09 PM
Hey, I already posted that!
I am sorry Nitz.
It was in my inbox today from my buddy.
I missed your original post on this. Did not mean to hang on your coat tails.
Consider yourself 'splained and your subject matter back to its former pristine glory.
Golgot needs to see this...will give him weeks of ammo...
The video could easily be doctored, but where did that wreckage go....
Lets ask the Warren commision.... ;)
I am sorry Nitz.
It was in my inbox today from my buddy.
I missed your original post on this. Did not mean to hang on your coat tails.
Consider yourself 'splained and your subject matter back to its former pristine glory.
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~jthale/MrBurns.gif
Excellent...
Anonymous Last
09-15-04, 02:33 PM
http://www.imao.us/img/bush_awol_memo.jpg
Golgot needs to see this...will give him weeks of ammo...
The video could easily be doctored, but where did that wreckage go....
Lets ask the Warren commision.... ;)
Ah, i already know 9-11 was designed to take out troublesome ex-CIA official O'Neill ;) :rolleyes:
It's intriguing, but i ain't got nothing more to add than what you've said :).
Now, Yoda defending the bounty used in Afghanistan, that i'd take issue with. But not on this thread. Anyone who wants to argue about that type of 9-11 aftermath thing can come to my Guantanamo thread :) (just trying to keep things tidy ;)).
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