Psycho (1960) Overrated?

[DerrickLevron]

I don't know about you, but Psycho was/is the most overrated movie of all time. I mean don't get me wrong, the plot was good, but the movie was horribly acted by all, janet leigh is another one overrated for that role. It just didn't work for me. Perkins isn't that great either.

What you all think?

[PigsnieLite]

I thought it was pretty boring too but I guess people in the 60s thought ut was scary for some weird reason. and anthony perkins just made me laugh, especially in the end when his eyes bugged out like he was tryin to convince me he was crazy.

[spudracer]

Overrated or not, this is one that scared the s*** out of most people. Now, if you're seeing it today, of course it won't have the effect it did back then.

Most movies back then were cheesy because they didn't have the resources, technology, brain power, etc, to pull off something that really did scare the s*** out of you. I'm taking this that you have just seen this movie recently. True, it has weak points in it, as does its recent update. You have to think about all the movies that came out back then, you know all the monster's in zip up suits, and other things, it was all made to scare you...back then it did. I mean it scared Leigh from taking showers ever again, so it had some effect to it.

This movie was a scary movie in it's time. Now, it's just a cheesy movie that you might jump in one part and laugh the rest. Overrated, no, just burnt out.

[PigsnieLite]

Was the legend of Hell house later than Psycho? Oh yeah, it musta been becuz it was in color but I found that movie pretty good. Good ectoplasms & I actually jumped a couple of times & it is a Roddy macdowell MOVIE, hahaha. Another old old ghost movie I really liked was THE Uninvited.

[spudracer]

Most of the horror movies from the 60's-70's were the true horror movies. That came with, Amityville Horror, Exorcist, Omen, and a few others. These were the ones that truley scared the piss out of you. These days, any horror movie is a joke trying to live up to that of the old days. Back when Karloff, Price, and other stars out of makeup out of charecter could still scare the piss out of ya. It's hard to find a good scary movie these days without laughin half way through it cause the plot is so predictable, and so corny. I get asked at work for a good scary movie, and i'm like...well...uh...there really isn't any good ones that are new. Most people get em for the fact that they're gonna see some lesbian vampires or something else, I mean scary movies have lost the edge they used to have. Granted, you will get a jump on a scene that takes you by surprise every now and then, but that sort of thing is pulled in every "horror" movie now-a-days. What they need to do is leave the special effects behind..the glitzy stars, and go with unknowns make a movie that involves the dead, but you never see them...you only see their aftermath. Sorta like the Blair Witch without all that shaky cam crap that got really annoying. Did you ever see a ghost or a witch?? Nope, but you saw what they did. That is truly scary. Seeing it without seeing it. Ya know!? :D

[Steve]

Psycho isn't overrated at all! :furious:

The ending sucks though. The whole part where the old man explains everything is stupid.

[Sir Toose]

Did you guys know that Psycho and Texas Chain Saw Massacre were based on the life of Ed Gein, a real serial killer? It's a little scarier with that in mind. Although the only thing Psycho borrows from real life is the "mother" thing. This film was ground breaking in it's time. I Love Lucy was the first TV show where they showed people in bed under the covers and this was controversial at the time.

[Zephyrus]

Overrated?! That's blasphemy! :D

Nah, just kidding. I actually like Psycho, it's number 7 (from what I can remember) on my top 10 list. Not because it was overrated or whatever.

I just think you guys missed the point a little with Psycho. According to todays standards of blood and gore everywhere, then yeah, the movie is so cheesy and full of holes, it would make Swiss cheese seem like an amateur...

But the point is, Psycho was revolutionary. It started it all. All the shrieky violin music, a person running around with a big knife, camera techniques... Hitchcock pioneered virtually everything. Ever been to a horror movie recently? Everything from Scream to I Know What You Did Last Summer are just pale copies/variations of the Psycho genre...

So, in response to your question, Psycho is definitely NOT overrated, Scream is ;D

[The Taxi Driver]

i no its like 3 years since this thread started but i jus saw psycho and i dont think its overrated. i usually dont get scared from horror movies (except when i was younger everything scared me) but today the only movies that still scare me is the shining and psycho. the part at the end freaked me out when he ran down the stairs dressed like his mother. i was like god damn he really is a f*ckin crazy.

[BCRichdude88]

You hear a lot about how a lot of horror movies today wouldn't be around if it weren't for this movie, but I don't think that is true. This movie, although it was made in the sixties, is so low budget, it's hard to imagine anybody getting really scared in the theaters.

[Sedai]

Psycho is an absolute masterpiece of technique and symbolism. The audience manipulation is amazing (you are rooting for a criminal after all, something unheard of back then). The supper scene in the parlor with the stuffed birds is incredibly tense, and worth some study.

Overrated? I don't think so.

Also, bad acting? Perkins is AMAZING in this role, and I can't think of an actor who would have been better for the part. He took the part and made it his own and just became Norman Bates. One of the best roles in film, to be sure. Sorry, but I have to ask, how old are you? I think the subtleties of Hitchcock's (not that he was subtle at all) are lost on the < 20 crowd.

[The Taxi Driver]

Psycho is an absolute masterpiece of technique and symbolism. The audience manipulation is amazing (you are rooting for a criminal after all, something unheard of back then). The supper scene in the parlor with the stuffed birds is incredibly tense, and worth some study.

Overrated? I don't think so.

Also, bad acting? Perkins is AMAZING in this role, and I can't think of an actor who would have been better for the part. He took the part and made it his own and just became Norman Bates. One of the best roles in film, to be sure. Sorry, but I have to ask, how old are you? I think the subtleties of Hitchcock's (not that he was subtle at all) are lost on the < 20 crowd.

i agree with you 100%. rich dude might just be a teen so he thinks its boring because there arent anyones guts ripped out of their nose or some sh*t like that

[blibblobblib]

Psycho is an absolute masterpiece of technique and symbolism. The audience manipulation is amazing (you are rooting for a criminal after all, something unheard of back then). The supper scene in the parlor with the stuffed birds is incredibly tense, and worth some study.

Overrated? I don't think so.

Also, bad acting? Perkins is AMAZING in this role, and I can't think of an actor who would have been better for the part. He took the part and made it his own and just became Norman Bates. One of the best roles in film, to be sure.

*Swells with Pride and claps hands*

Here Here! Couldnt have said it better my self! :D

[LordSlaytan]

My only complaint with Psycho is the last 5 minutes of the film. I wish it could have ended without the 'explanation'. Other than that...great.

[susan]

Psycho is an absolute masterpiece of technique and symbolism. The audience manipulation is amazing (you are rooting for a criminal after all, something unheard of back then). The supper scene in the parlor with the stuffed birds is incredibly tense, and worth some study.

Overrated? I don't think so.

Also, bad acting? Perkins is AMAZING in this role, and I can't think of an actor who would have been better for the part. He took the part and made it his own and just became Norman Bates. One of the best roles in film, to be sure. Sorry, but I have to ask, how old are you? I think the subtleties of Hitchcock's (not that he was subtle at all) are lost on the < 20 crowd.

i can't agree more....scared the hell out of me when i was a kid

anyway, i thought that this movie was the model for many other horror flicks to follow

[LordSlaytan]

You can actually go further back than that to 1955. That's when Henri-Georges Clouzot made Les Diaboliques, which was Hitchcocks inspiration for Psycho. I actually like it better, but most people say Hitchcock's plan to top the greatest psychological thriller ever made worked. If you really like Psycho, then check out Les Diaboliques. You won't be sorry.

[susan]

You can actually go further back than that to 1955. That's when Henri-Georges Clouzot made Les Diaboliques, which was Hitchcocks inspiration for Psycho. I actually like it better, but most people say Hitchcock's plan to top the greatest psychological thriller ever made worked. If you really like Psycho, then check out Les Diaboliques. You won't be sorry.

thanks for the tip...i think i will...

[The Silver Bullet]

If your smart enough you can compare fight club to psycho.
Or alternatively, if you're an idiot.

[blibblobblib]

My only complaint with Psycho is the last 5 minutes of the film. I wish it could have ended without the 'explanation'. Other than that...great.
See a lot of people i speak to hate this part of the film, but i love this part. Its pretty obvious whats happened to him, but that detective guy just sums it up, adding the last bit of horrifying atmosphere to the end of the film. Its his style of doing it...its so....twighlight zone-ish. I love it!
You can actually go further back than that to 1955. That's when Henri-Georges Clouzot made Les Diaboliques, which was Hitchcocks inspiration for Psycho. I actually like it better, but most people say Hitchcock's plan to top the greatest psychological thriller ever made worked. If you really like Psycho, then check out Les Diaboliques. You won't be sorry.
I really want to see this. I wont spoil it and i cant be bothered to do a spoilers tab but the ending involves a bath tub and a pair of fake eyes right? If so it looks sooooooo good.

[Sedai]

I picked up Les Diabolques recently, and I will also recommend it. The way tension builds slowly to the climax is perfect. Some great noir camera work as well. The DVD is touch-and-go quality wise, but worth it nonetheless.

[Mark]

Was the legend of Hell house later than Psycho? Oh yeah, it musta been becuz it was in color...

The above quote was from 2001. I find the reasoning here pretty funny. PigsnieLite determines that The Legend of Hell House had to be after Psycho because Hell House was in color. :rolleyes: I guess that means Gone with the Wind and The Wizard of Oz had to be after Psycho as well.

I have many reasons for loving Psycho, but I'm saving my comments for a future review at Movie Reviews 4 Fun (future Film List 51 to 60 is going to be all Hitchcock films). :cool:

[Sedai]

The above quote was from 2001. I find the reasoning here pretty funny. PigsnieLite determines that The Legend of Hell House had to be after Psycho because Hell House was in color. :rolleyes: I guess that means Gone with the Wind and The Wizard of Oz had to be after Psycho as well.

Took the words out of my mouth...but watch out!! There is a whole slew of people out there who will argue until the bitter end that The Wizard of Oz is colorized (They are incorrect and need to do some research...) Ugggg, where is Holden when you need him.

Can't wait for your comments on the Hitchcock stuff!!

[Psion]

Iam Terribly sorry for my rude behavior :)

[blibblobblib]

I have many reasons for loving Psycho, but I'm saving my comments for a future review at Movie Reviews 4 Fun (future Film List 51 to 60 is going to be all Hitchcock films). :cool:
This sounds VERY good to hear. Keep me posted about this so that i can wobble whilst reading all your thoughts on the wonder of Hitch...

If you dont keep me posted...you shall experience more Horror than hitch could ever translate to the silver screen....oh yes....

[Mark]

Can't wait for your comments on the Hitchcock stuff!!

This sounds VERY good to hear. Keep me posted about this so that i can wobble whilst reading all your thoughts on the wonder of Hitch...

Hmmm. Maybe I jumped the gun a little bit in mentioning it. I should explain that Film List 51 to 60 is over 23 weeks away. Our next list, 41 to 50 starts in three weeks, and we're going away from films we've never seen before to films that are considered all-time classics (eg. The Grapes of Wrath, To Kill a Mockingbird, etc.). The Hitchcock list will come after that, sometime this winter. Sorry. :(

[Caitlyn]

Iam Terribly sorry for my rude behavior :)


Nicely done… and you just got rep points (good ones) from me for apologizing instead of resorting to more rudeness… Please remember in the future that this forum is open to children… thanks… :)

[Psion]

i will thank you

[Escape]

Nicely done… and you just got rep points (good ones) from me for apologizing instead of resorting to more rudeness… Please remember in the future that this forum is open to children… thanks… :)
I don't get it. I'm still new here but why are you so hard on him for his first comment "If your smart enough etc.." ? I don't think he was trying to be an ass, he just used a couple of words irresponsibly and I'm sure was just meaning to say somthing like "If you watch closely" or "If you really focus". I dont think he deserved a lecture on it but mabe just a warning. Unless it was of course his second comment of which was deleted that put him over the top.

[blibblobblib]

Unless it was of course his second comment of which was deleted that put him over the top.

Trust me, it was his second comment that is thankfully no longer available for us to see. Involved all manner of gross words and images....grim grim grim.

[Caitlyn]

I don't get it. I'm still new here but why are you so hard on him for his first comment "If your smart enough etc.." ? I don't think he was trying to be an ass, he just used a couple of words irresponsibly and I'm sure was just meaning to say somthing like "If you watch closely" or "If you really focus". I dont think he deserved a lecture on it but mabe just a warning. Unless it was of course his second comment of which was deleted that put him over the top.

His first comment would have only drawn a question from me as to exactly how he meant it because, like you, I realize people don’t always mean things the way they sound… So Blib is correct… it was his second comment that left no doubt as to what he meant that actually caused the problem… We do have people sign up from time to time who only seem interested in making personal attacks against other members… but Psion apologized which leads me to believe he is not one of those and is actually more interested in talking about movies and having fun… so I hope we can all move on and do just that… :)



Thanks Blib... :kiss:

[Escape]

His first comment would have only drawn a question from me as to exactly how he meant it because, like you, I realize people don’t always mean things the way they sound… So Blib is correct… it was his second comment that left no doubt as to what he meant that actually caused the problem… We do have people sign up from time to time who only seem interested in making personal attacks against other members… but Psion apologized which leads me to believe he is not one of those and is actually more interested in talking about movies and having fun… so I hope we can all move on and do just that… :)



Thanks Blib... :kiss:


Gotcha :D

[Nitzer]

I'm sorry if this is too rude but whoever said that "Stuck On You" was bad deserves to get stabbed in the eye with a fork!
The movie is funny, kind and very original. It has many fun parts thoughtout it, but what makes it so gay is that the directors don't in any way make fun of the brothers' disability, they don't praise it, they focus on showing the stupidity of those who laugh and mock the protagonist(s.) The message that the Farrely brothers are trying to get across is great, and on top of all that the ending of the movie is fantastic and heart-warming. It's a wonderful movie, full of laughs for people of all ages, and I strongly recommend it to anyone.

[blibblobblib]

get ya forks ready nitz, ive got mine. Stuck on you was awful. Your right that it has a nice message, good morals, and some good stars. but as a movie. its really rubbish. Well i think it is anyway.

But let us remember, this is the PSYCHO thread. so we should discuss that. And not conjoined twins...unless there were conjoined twins in PSYCHO??

[PimpDaShizzle]

A post of my extreme disagreement to the person who originally posted this thread - I DISAGREE.

Psycho - Alfred Hitchcock, those names go hand in hand with contribution to American Film. Technique, technique, technique. Yes, I'll say it, the shower scene. Something to be studied and watched over and over again and again. The jump cuts, the metric montage, the framing, the use and range of scale = beautiful. Don't ever bad mouth A-Man (Alfred H.) again.

[blibblobblib]

Don't ever bad mouth A-Man (Alfred H.) again.
A-Man - Secret and more geeky brother of He-Man. Beware his mighty directing power!

[Prospero]

I fall squarely into the camp that thinks Psycho is a masterpiece.
From Perkins' performance to the wonderful camera techniques (PimDaShizzle is right on the mark this time), to Bernard Hermann's incredible score - everything works magnificently. This is my third favorite Hitch, after Rebecca and Notorious (yes, I even prefer it to Rear Window, but just barely).
I know that these days, the explanation at the end seems pedantic, but you have to consider it in the context of the times: psychology was not as much a part of popular culture as it is now. And personally I love that last shot of Norman.

[SamsoniteDelilah]

I'm starting to hate the term "overrated"... so vague...
Anyway, Psycho was, as was stated, groundbreaking in plot and technique. So no, there's no way it could be overrated unless we, you know, made it a religion or something.

Funny side-note: telling a story that was sympathetic to the killer was so "out of the norm" at the time that friends of Hitchcock's came out of the movie unable to quite look him in the eye, per Suzanne Plechette, a class I took. She said there was all the typical manic hubbub going in, and coming out, no one knew where to look and just went home after. hee!

[MysticalMoose]

Overrated my ass. This movie was done extremely well and paved the way for many great films over the last fourty years. If you watch the camera angles, and the way this film is put together, it does done extremely well, as well as many movies we see today. Also the idea of multipersonality was an extremely original idea then, one that we take for granted because it is so overused today, because of psycho and its success from the 60s.

[Robban94]

Yeahh, Psycho is overrated and Twilight is the best movie ever! *sarcasm*

[L .B . Jeffries]

I usually stay out of these overrated film discusions but you've got to look at the film in its context. Hitchcock was 60 years old making a low budget horror film and not just hanging in there but making most horror films past and to that presant day look okay. Name me 10 horror films that are substantially better from 1960 and older. plus I may be going out on a limb here but I think Hitchcock was extremely interested in the inner workings of a psychopath and not to quick to give you the scares. It's more of a distrubing film than it is scary. I find sometimes distrubing to be more horrific and tends to last in my mind for a lot longer.

[will.15]

You people who say Psycho is boring, did you watch it knowing in advance what the ending was? Did you know Janet Leigh gets stabbed in the shower? I suspect you did. Someone told me they weren't impressed with The Sixth Sense. They were already aware of the ending when they watched it. I guess a movie with plot twists is a lot less impressive if you know what's coming.

[Swan]

Aint no thang overrated 'bout no Psycho.

[honeykid]

It's not overrated, but then, it depends who's asking.

I first saw Psycho when I was 9 or 10. It was B&W, nothing happened (to my child mind) for 40 minutes and then, the scene we'd heard all about, happened and we just sat there. Was that it? We all decided that it was crap and turned it off there and then and put another film in. Probably Zombie Creeping Flesh or something like that, because that's what we watched which, surely, explains why I found Psycho so boring.

I didn't see Psycho again until I was 17 and I loved it. I thought it was excellent. However, had you asked me at any time inbetween those two viewings and I would, of course, have told you it was overrated rubbish. Why? Because all I knew about film was what I did and didn't like, not what was good and bad.

[ChasingButterfly]

I actually just watched Psycho last night for the fist time and some of it was a bit boring but that's only becuase I basically knew the story inside out already and I just wanted to see the most famous scenes in context but I don't think it's at all overrated, it's classic cinema at its best!

[Sedai]

Certainly NOT overrated. I can watch this film over and over, just relishing the subtle performance of Anthony Perkins.

[WBadger]

A killer score (killer! get it?), some of the most tense scenes between two characters, Anthony Perkins' performance, and a murderer being the protagonist.

Or is this just another case of overrating it, to some? Nah, I don't think you can argue these points. My only problem with Psycho is the explained ending, but I love pretty much everything else about it.

[beelzebubbles]

Starts with a boring set up. Proceeds with a skin tightening denouement which comes very early in the film. Then boring catch the killer stuff.

Yes, it is overrated.

[scottc]

Awesome movie... 2 and 3 were ok.

[Sam!]

Psycho...overrated?

*Faints*

No. It does seem a little flat until we are introduced to Anthony Perkins, though.

[rauldc14]

I think that without Psycho, the horror genre is nothing. This is a classic film that should be viewed by all and appreciated by most. Not Hitchcock's best movie but it is still a good one.

[planet news]

I don't know about you, but Psycho was/is the most overrated movie of all time. I mean don't get me wrong, the plot was good, but the movie was horribly acted by all, janet leigh is another one overrated for that role. It just didn't work for me. Perkins isn't that great either.

What is this, I don't even-

Yall can come after me on this one, but IMHO Psycho is #3 after Vertigo and The Birds for Hitchcock. Seriously, if anything, Psycho is underrated.

[Sedai]

Nah, I kind of agree with you, Planet...

Vertigo is my favorite, by far...

[Cinefilles]

Perhaps try Dial M for Murder? So awesome. Honestly, I wasn't expecting it to be that great.

[rauldc14]

That is the true question for me. Rear Window and North by Northwest easily come 1-2 for me Hitchcock-wise. The battle for third is between Dial M for Murder and Psycho, and honestly I might have to give the edge to Dial M for Murder.

[Cries&Whispers]

Before I legitimately respond to this thread with thoughtful analysis, let me just ask: Who the **** thinks this movie is overrated?! What? This means the original right? As in not Vince Vaughn? I'm so confused, my world was just been rocked.

[mark f]

This is about the Hitch version, yes, as sad as that seems...

[Cries&Whispers]

This deeply dismays me. I'll probably respond seriously in the next day or so. But right now, I'm too confused to even continue on movieforums. I feel betrayed. :(

[Dasher]

I remember the first time I watched Psycho and truly it took a while to get into, but after Janet Leigh reaches the Bates Motel all that changes for me. It is pure excitement around every corner from that point on. I don't think it is overrated at all.

[wintertriangles]

Movies like this can only be overrated if you don't watch movies for more than cheap entertainment

[planet news]

It's also extremely entertaining too though. It works amazingly on any level you can imagine.

[wintertriangles]

But it's not entertaining for people who enjoy garbage like Vacancy, to keep with a motel movie. Those types of people see Vacancy, ignore the stupefying reaction time of the victims, and actually think "you know, that was thrilling" and WILL argue that with no basis of realism between a alleged realistic film. Show those same people Psycho, there's a chance 5% of them will pop their brain cherry, but the rest will blow it off as a waste of time firstly because it has no color, secondly because it's slow paced, thirdly because the acting is a completely different style than what they're used to which they ignorantly refer to as piss poor, and finally because they don't see the taxidermy as brilliant mise-en-scene but just some poor, cheesy attempt to scare people.

But yes it is entertaining to everyone else

[planet news]

Absolutely.

No one. And I mean NO ONE expects Leigh's death so soon in the film. Everything Hitchcock does, from the narrative focus on her to the film poster itself, is intended to make us think that she will be around to stay. It's such a brilliant subversion of the medium precisely because it makes us question the medium.

[genesis_pig]

Absolutely.

No one. And I mean NO ONE expects Leigh's death so soon in the film.

Abosultely!!!..
People who have seen Hitchcock after seeing most 90's trashy suspense films will find hitchcock films overrated...

Take Rear Window for example, Even if you know Burr is the killer, still the ending seems chilling & surprising.,, Far better than that Disturbia crap..

[wintertriangles]

Re-watchability is so undervalued nowadays

[planet news]

If there's one way to quantitatively gauge the greatness of a work of art, it's in measuring its lifespan. The longer and more times a film can be redefined as culture changes, the greater it is. Classical music means so much today, but not at all what it meant "back then". Ragtime, on the other hand, feels suffocatingly confined to a brief notch in American history.

[genesis_pig]

I have always wondered, what if Hitchcock had Anthony Perkins lip-sync to his mother's voice.. It would have freaked me out.. & I am sure Perkins would have done it brilliantly.

[honeykid]

I have always wondered, what if Hitchcock had Anthony Perkins lip-sync to his mother's voice.. It would have freaked me out.. & I am sure Perkins would have done it brilliantly.
No! Now that's the kind of freaky, but gimmicky crap, that would be done today. But, as an internal monologue, it's much more chilling, IMO.

[bdidol]

I don't know about you, but Psycho was/is the most overrated movie of all time. I mean don't get me wrong, the plot was good, but the movie was horribly acted by all, janet leigh is another one overrated for that role. It just didn't work for me. Perkins isn't that great either.

What you all think?

agreed and this is not the only overrated movie

[Minus P]

agreed and this is not the only overrated movie


I think it is over-rated, however for what it was in the time and the fact that even though we have all seen it we would re-watch it it does say a lot about its longevity.

[mark f]

WTF is this shite? Oh yeah, freedom of speech. Really good reasons posted there, guys.

[will.15]

Absolutely.

No one. And I mean NO ONE expects Leigh's death so soon in the film.
Unless they read the book.

[ollanik]

It is not overrated,it is just not scary for us,because horrors get scarier and scarier through time...in 2050 today's horrors will be funny...

[iluv2viddyfilms]

It is not overrated,it is just not scary for us,because horrors get scarier and scarier through time...in 2050 today's horrors will be funny...

I think Psycho is a bit overrated in comparison to some of Hitchcock's other works and most of today's horror movies are funny or just frighteningly awful.

[HitchFan97]

PSYCHO IS NOT OVERRATED. Sure, it's not at all scary, but it is easily the most influential horror movie ever made and quite possibly the most original film of any genre. Plus, I highly doubt any horror movie was as purely entertaining as Psycho either.

[wintertriangles]

Pbut it is easily the most influential horror movie ever madeNo and quite possibly the most original film of any genre.Not that either Plus, I highly doubt any horror movie was as purely entertaining as Psycho either.Really?

[urkillinmesmalls]

I've only seen the part where she gets stabbed in the shower...at the time I thought it was scary. Now I would love to see the rest of it.

[honeykid]

PSYCHO IS NOT OVERRATED. Sure, it's not at all scary, but it is easily the most influential horror movie ever made and quite possibly the most original film of any genre. Plus, I highly doubt any horror movie was as purely entertaining as Psycho either.
Is that the most original film of any genre... Based on a novel.... Inspired by real life events?

Like WT, I'd argue with all the points made.

[will.15]

I would say it was very original as a movie at the time. And what does it matter if it was based on a book?

It was inspired by a real muder case, not based on it, and the elements that made Psycho original, the fate of the female protagonist, the brilliant staging of the shower scene, and the twist ending are not part of the real life case.

Psycho, for good or bad, was the first slasher film. And it was thought to be very scary at the time, but because it has been so imitated with later efforts increasing the body count and gore it isn't the shocker it once was.

[mark f]

Like WT, I'd argue with all the points made.

Yeah, but you guys like to argue. :cool:

[honeykid]

I would say it was very original as a movie at the time. And what does it matter if it was based on a book?

It was inspired by a real muder case, not based on it, and the elements that made Psycho original, the fate of the female protagonist, the brilliant staging of the shower scene, and the twist ending are not part of the real life case.

Psycho, for good or bad, was the first slasher film. And it was thought to be very scary at the time, but because it has been so imitated with later efforts increasing the body count and gore it isn't the shocker it once was.

I didn't say it was based on a real murder case, I said "inspired". In fact, I deliberately said "inspired" for that reason.

I agree it's a great film, I wouldn't even call it overrated. I was merely agreeing with WT because, IMO, he was right.

I'd also argue that Peeping Tom was the first slasher, but that's a minor quibble and one certainly didn't influence the other.

I actually think that Psycho's influence on American horror is far more important. Just when British horror had turned onto the monster/supernatural lore that Universal and Hollywood had made so popular in the 30's, Psycho pushed American horror into a more 'realistic' or 'human monster' that the British had been doing in the 30's.

[HitchFan97]

Is that the most original film of any genre... Based on a novel.... Inspired by real life events?

Like WT, I'd argue with all the points made.

I was saying that it's *possibly* the most original film ever made.

[wintertriangles]

But not even possibly. It's a crime thriller, which had been around since the 20s. It did nothing new with the genre other than being really well made.

[Deadite]

I don't think I've ever seen a film structured quite like Psycho. Quite an excellent horror film.

In a way, Scream ripped off its surprise death twist.

[ash_is_the_gal]

But not even possibly. It's a crime thriller, which had been around since the 20s. It did nothing new with the genre other than being really well made.

Had this particular twist already been done?

[HitchFan97]

Yeah, Psycho crosses many genres (then there's the classic debate of whether it's a horror film or not). And while it is a crime thriller, the "twist" that Ash mentioned also turns it into the first modern horror movie. And you can't deny that films such as Halloween took huge levels of inspiration from Psycho.

[urkillinmesmalls]

In a way, Scream ripped off its surprise death twist.

You gotta watch the real thing first.

[will.15]

By the time Scream came along the ending of Psycho had been already ripped many, many, many times.

Probably the first movie with a twist ending was also a psycho thriller, the silent Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.

Movies with twist endings were pretty rare until Psycho came along. Chase a Crooked Shadow which came out a few years earlier was an exception. I mean strong twist endings that really surprise you, not oh, it was all a dream and that sort of thing.

[will.15]

But not even possibly. It's a crime thriller, which had been around since the 20s. It did nothing new with the genre other than being really well made.
Yes, it did.

It was much more violent than anything before it.

But now that I think about it it may not have existed without Les Diabolique. That was probably what inspired Hitchcock to make Psycho.

[Deadite]

I wonder.... if it didn't have the Hitchcock name attached, would many people care enough to debate whether it's a horror film? I suppose The Birds wasn't a horror film either.

[Deadite]

By the time Scream came along the ending of Psycho had been already ripped many, many, many times.

Probably the first movie with a twist ending was also a psycho thriller, the silent Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.

Movies with twist endings were pretty rare until Psycho came along. Chase a Crooked Shadow which came out a few years earlier was an exception. I mean strong twist endings that really surprise you, not oh, it was all a dream and that sort of thing.

Are we talking about the same thing? I'm talking about the beginning of Scream.

[wintertriangles]

But now that I think about it it may not have existed without Les Diabolique. That was probably what inspired Hitchcock to make Psycho.Which is one of my points.

Had this particular twist already been done?
If we're going to call movies one of the most original ever based on the twist we've got a lot of uber original films in the same genre.
I don't think I've ever seen a film structured quite like Psycho. Quite an excellent horror film.
Just because you haven't seen the other films doesn't make me wrong. Or neg worthy.

[HitchFan97]

"If we're going to call movies one of the most original ever based on the twist we've got a lot of uber original films in the same genre."

Yeah, but the twist, and the incredibly unique narrative structure that results from it, is only one of the elements that makes Psycho so original. No film before ever had such a shocking subject matter or a crazy knife murderer running on the loose. Today, thanks to Psycho, all it takes is a trip to your local movie theatre to see a film with a disturbing subject matter or a crazy knife murderer.

[wintertriangles]

Yeah, but the twist, and the incredibly unique narrative structure that results from it, is only one of the elements that makes Psycho so original. No film before ever had such a shocking subject matter or a crazy knife murderer running on the loose. Today, thanks to Psycho, all it takes is a trip to your local movie theatre to see a film with a disturbing subject matter or a crazy knife murderer.
Actually it's thanks to M, Peeping Tom, Diabolique, and Psycho. And more I'm sure.

[will.15]

Without Psycho, would Halloween ever been made, which begat the slasher genre as it exists today?

[honeykid]

Just to argue, you're forgetting both Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Black Christmas when mentioning Halloween's influence. But, as I said, now I'm just making arguments.

[wintertriangles]

Probably not the same Halloween that was made, no. But what about Black Christmas? But without all the precursors to Psycho, Psycho would not have been made by that logic. And there have been equally violent films before it, such as Peeping Tom or hell even Battleship Potemkin.

EDIT: Honey mentioned BC, damn

[mark f]

Black Christmas is the first one of those mentioned with "penetration", but the Italians had already done it earlier.

[will.15]

Probably not the same Halloween that was made, no. But what about Black Christmas? But without all the precursors to Psycho, Psycho would not have been made by that logic. And there have been equally violent films before it, such as Peeping Tom or hell even Battleship Potemkin.

EDIT: Honey mentioned BC, damn
ttleship Potemkin is hardly comparable to Psycho.

Peeping Tom came out the same year as Psycho and while well regarded today was a box office and critical disaster at the time. It's subject mattert is similar, it's treatment isn't.

The only real precursors to Psycho that matters I can think of is M, Les Diabolique, and Hitchcock's own the Lodger, and possibility the climax to Hitchcock's Sabotage.

[wintertriangles]

ttleship Potemkin is hardly comparable to Psycho. Uh, yes it is since we were talking about violence. Different kind of violence, both are shocking.

Peeping Tom came out the same year as Psycho and while well regarded today was a box office and critical disaster at the time. It's subject mattert is similar, it's treatment isn't.

The only real precursors to Psycho that matters I can think of is M, Les Diabolique, and Hitchcock's own the Lodger, and possibility the climax to Hitchcock's Sabotage.I'm pretty sure you aren't arguing about anything anymore

[rauldc14]

In one word: No

[Yoda]

I've deleted the last few posts in this thread. Personal insults have no place here. And if you guys want to go at each other, it at least has to be about something. Feel free to disagree vehemently about Psycho, but otherwise, please allow other people to have the discussion without having to familiarize themselves with whatever feud is going on.

[will.15]

Hitchcock was an innovator. The suspense film existed in some way before he started focusing on them, but no one did so much with it until he came along. Did the innocent man on the run thriller exist before he did The Lodger and especially the brilliant 39 Steps? To say Psycho is not original because violent movies had been done before or there were thrillers before or psycho movies before misses the point. Any narrative movie strictly speaking could be considered not to be original because it is using storytelling devices and narrative plot that existed in some way. But Psycho brought elements to the genre that was new even if Hitchcock was influenced by the masterful Les Diabolique. Hitchcock didn't directly borrow (rip-off) the way Brian de Palma would shamelessly do from Hitchcock in Dressed to Kill and that one with Cliff Robertson and Genevieve Bujold.

[planet news]

Psycho is, first and foremost, a film about architecture.

[honeykid]

Y'know, there are times when nothing beats a PN post. :cool:

[HitchFan97]

Hitchcock was an innovator. The suspense film existed in some way before he started focusing on them, but no one did so much with it until he came along. Did the innocent man on the run thriller exist before he did The Lodger and especially the brilliant 39 Steps? To say Psycho is not original because violent movies had been done before or there were thrillers before or psycho movies before misses the point. Any narrative movie strictly speaking could be considered not to be original because it is using storytelling devices and narrative plot that existed in some way. But Psycho brought elements to the genre that was new even if Hitchcock was influenced by the masterful Les Diabolique. Hitchcock didn't directly borrow (rip-off) the way Brian de Palma would shamelessly do from Hitchcock in Dressed to Kill and that one with Cliff Robertson and Genevieve Bujold.

Exactly. Sure, Psycho was clearly influenced by M and Diabolique, but that in no way means the film was incapable of being original in its own right.

[will.15]

Y'know, there are times when nothing beats a PN post. :cool:
And concise, a rare thing.

[rybev]

I'm a bit late to this thread but no - Psycho isn't overrated.
It's the film that changed my life and sparked my interest in films.
It's pure perfection.

[HitchFan97]

I'm a bit late to this thread but no - Psycho isn't overrated.
It's the film that changed my life and sparked my interest in films.
It's pure perfection.

Me too!

[ollanik]

It's the film that changed my life and sparked my interest in films.
It's pure perfection.

Really?

[MovieMan8877445]

Really?

Why do you sound so surprised?

[mark f]

We're supposed to be lyin' MoFos.

[ferretpossum]

There are a couple of things that hinder "Psycho" to modern audiences.

Firstly, movies have gone so much further since 1960. Think about it. We've had Leatherface, Pinhead and Hannibal Lecter since then.

Secondly, and I'm trying really hard not to spoil it here, nearly EVERYBODY knows whodunnit. Usually before they've even seen the movie. That really robs the film of something (remember Hitchcock tried very hard to keep the plot under wraps).

But if you want to know why the movie is a masterpiece, I recommend you read Donald Spoto's dissection of it. When I first read that I realised I'd watched the movie without really understanding it at all.

[MovieMad16]

I knew who the twist before watching it, and I still think its a masterpiece. Hitchcock truely went to lengths to make a film market unlike any other. I wish other Mystery films would be like this. Maybe they should do one with multiple endings, and screen these endings in multiple cinemas hence there wouldn't be a canon ending.

[will.15]

I knew who the twist before watching it, and I still think its a masterpiece. Hitchcock truely went to lengths to make a film market unlike any other. I wish other Mystery films would be like this. Maybe they should do one with multiple endings, and screen these endings in multiple cinemas hence there wouldn't be a canon ending.
The reason they can't do that in a mystery film is because the ending has to flow from the story. Psycho's ending surprised people when they saw it, but it comes out of the story. Trick endings that don't flow from the story once it is revealed come across as cheats and disappoint. You see Psycho through the end and you say,"Yeah I should have seen that." I once saw a lousy Psycho type movie where it was revealed at the end the teenage girl who was killing people was really a boy, but they obviously cast a girl and substituted a boy at the end so it was unbelievable. Psycho cheats slightly with the dubbed voice, but otherwise seem inevitable and logical once the climax occurs. William Castle's rip-off of Psycho, Homicide, has a neat Psycho variation and again the only cheat is dubbing. But where Psycho has the structure of a tragedy, Homicide is just a trick film, but an enjoyable one on that level.

[HitchFan97]

I too knew the twist before watching Psycho, and its still one of my favorites. Speaking of which, i'm on vacation and I just bought a framed poster of the movie at a memorabilia store at Universal Orlando :D

[ollanik]

That is just not type of horror that can scare me...only ghost,creepy Asian horrors,David Lynch movies can scare me and creep me out...but i still think that Psycho,Scream and similar movies are great,but like thrillers...

[chipper]

Psycho created a new genre. The legendary shower scene became the single basis for the slasher movies of modern times.

This is one suspense/thriller movie where characters were portrayed with equal charm and disdain. Insanity was always portrayed with such complexity and horror. This is the first time an antagonist was portrayed with a certain amount of awe, mystery, coherence and downright insanity.

The twist is common now and was based on the book yet even if you put it side by side all the films that used the same trick can never execute the surprise in the same level of brutality and simplicity. Also, it is the first movie that dealt with brutal murder, Oedipal complex and transvesticism. These issues were beyond taboo in that time. That should be enough to tell you how courageous the film was and how successful it became in pushing forward issues others shied away from.

Even the use of the heroine was different. We were manipulated to watch her and then she was taken away from us all too suddenly. We were inspired to be attracted to Bates only for him to end up being the bad guy.

You can question the movie's politics but you cannot question that it enormity of contribution.

[dvdmoviereviews]

Have to agree with some of the comments here about the changes in modern audiences compared to the 1960s. I watched this a week ago on TV and the story is a solid one. Scary? No. Some good acting and the shower scene is a classic scene but it's lost it's bite as far as shocks go.

[MrPink]

psycho (1960) overrated?
no.

[Warren'sShampoo]

I'm starting to hate the term "overrated"... so vague...

I concur.

To the people who feel that Psycho is overrated, how many of you have viewed the film multiple times?

[Used Future]

Black Christmas is the first one of those mentioned with "penetration", but the Italians had already done it earlier.

Yup, much of Black Christmas feels like an expansion on the final reel of Sergio Martino's Torso released the previous year. I'd put that down to coincidence, but not the influence Italian Gialli had on the American slasher boom of the late 70's and early 80's. Hitchcock influenced everyone everywhere, but this is most evident in the Italian cinema of the 60's and 70's. The emergence of Dario Argento and his contemporaries is clear indication of this.

Films like Halloween were influenced by Black Christmas in terms of subject matter for sure, but it's clear Carpenter was imitating Hitchcock in terms of technique and the art of creating suspense.

[TheGirlWhoHadAllTheLuck x]

Psycho isn't overrated at all! :furious:

The ending sucks though. The whole part where the old man explains everything is stupid.

I've always hated that bit. It's basically just to explain the blatantly obvious and reassure the audience that he isn't gay.

[TheGirlWhoHadAllTheLuck x]

Funny side-note: telling a story that was sympathetic to the killer was so "out of the norm" at the time that friends of Hitchcock's came out of the movie unable to quite look him in the eye

I don't think it's sympathetic. His actions are explained in true Freudian style but we don't like him or particularly feel sorry for him.

[TheGirlWhoHadAllTheLuck x]

Also, it is the first movie that dealt with brutal murder, Oedipal complex and transvesticism. These issues were beyond taboo in that time.

I'm not sure that's right. I don't believe that there were no films with brutal murders in before Pyscho. There may not have been any done in that slasher style but the murder in that 1930's film of Oliver Twist... such a clever and effective way of doing it. More frightening than the shower scene.

As for the Oedipus complex, it was the whole point of Laurence Olivier's version of Hamlet. He even cast Gertrude as twelve years younger than him just to emphasise it! There's elements of the Oedipus complex in Strangers on A Train. It's also in Peeping Tom too.

The movie does not really "deal" with transvestitism. Norman is not a transvestite.

[Gabrielle947]

I don't think it's overrated.Personally,I don't like horror movies where I can't even watch at the screen because some ugly creepy killing monster can pop up anytime.Psycho doesn't have tons of blood,slashed legs and arms,ghosts or fantasy monsters.It manages to scare with the simplest things - dark,creepy well-acted maniac and music.Nowadays horror movies can't do anything without some dark forest,pretty faces and unstoppable killers who come out of nowhere. :D
If horror movies' purpose is just to scare the viewer,than yes,Psycho is not a great movie but I believe that the point of horror movie is to scare the viewer using logic and less things which just naturally causes fear(blood,dark etc.).This is why The Shining is also great.

[HitchFan97]

Oh jeez... not this topic again :D

Anyways, I think the part with the blowhard psychiatrist functions as one of the film's many brilliant scenes of dark humor. And of course we identify with Norman; the way Hitchcock makes us subconsciously want that car to sink in the swamp is possibly the greatest instance of audience manipulation ever. In a few short moments, the viewer has gone from identifying with Marion to Norman.

[TheGirlWhoHadAllTheLuck x]

Oh jeez... not this topic again :D

Anyways, I think the part with the blowhard psychiatrist functions as one of the film's many brilliant scenes of dark humor.

I can see that as being something Hitchcock might have wanted to do but to me it smacks of Hollywood censorship and patronising the audience when the "psychology" goes over their heads. It's exposition, pure and simple.

And of course we identify with Norman; the way Hitchcock makes us subconsciously want that car to sink in the swamp is possibly the greatest instance of audience manipulation ever. In a few short moments, the viewer has gone from identifying with Marion to Norman.

Do we ever identify with Marion? She's not particularly sympathetic- she steals money from her boss and goes on the run just because her yummy boyfriend is poor. We want the car to sink into the swamp because we don't like her and because Perkins is a more fun and interesting character. So we identify with him in the sense that we want the car to sink but he is the psycho and we aren't.

[HitchFan97]

I never found Marion to be a completely unsympathetic character. True, she isn't half as interesting as Norman, but for the first 40 minutes or so she functions just fine as the protagonist. The fact that we, as an audience, don't even care when she is murdered and go along with making Norman the new protagonist (despite his own covering up of Marion's death!) is no less than groundbreaking. It's a roller-coaster ride of a film and that's just one of its many twists.

[TheGirlWhoHadAllTheLuck x]

I never found Marion to be a completely unsympathetic character. True, she isn't half as interesting as Norman, but for the first 40 minutes or so she functions just fine as the protagonist.

Nah, she couldn't have carried the film. She had to be bumped off. And is Norman the protagonist? I think the sister and boyfriend are on screen for longer.

[Skepsis93]

I never found Marion to be a completely unsympathetic character. True, she isn't half as interesting as Norman, but for the first 40 minutes or so she functions just fine as the protagonist. The fact that we, as an audience, don't even care when she is murdered and go along with making Norman the new protagonist (despite his own covering up of Marion's death!) is no less than groundbreaking. It's a roller-coaster ride of a film and that's just one of its many twists.

Can you expand on how you think Bates became the protagonist? I most certainly didn't identify with him, but I don't think I missed the point of the film, either. He's not a likable anti-hero like Dexter Morgan, he's creepy as s**t and I wanted him to be caught. If anything, I think once Marion is killed we're left with a series of, sort of, temporary protagonists to root for, first Arbogast and then Sam and Lila.

[HitchFan97]

To me, Norman becomes the protagonist the moment that car stops sinking and we want it to submerge all the way into the swamp. To be fair, he is a very mysterious character up until the finale so there's an argument to be made that Psycho doesn't really have a protagonist after Marion is killed. But as the most interesting character, and the one that the audience is most often forced to identify with on a subconscious level, I think he fits the bill as well as any other character. Take the scene where Arbogast is questioning him, for example. It's tense because we identify with Norman and don't want him to get caught (at least that was my experience).

[TheGirlWhoHadAllTheLuck x]

Can you expand on how you think Bates became the protagonist? I most certainly didn't identify with him, but I don't think I missed the point of the film, either. He's not a likable anti-hero like Dexter Morgan, he's creepy as s**t and I wanted him to be caught. If anything, I think once Marion is killed we're left with a series of, sort of, temporary protagonists to root for, first Arbogast and then Sam and Lila.

Agreed. He is a psycho, as the title says.

[Guaporense]

I don't know about you, but Psycho was/is the most overrated movie of all time. I mean don't get me wrong, the plot was good, but the movie was horribly acted by all, janet leigh is another one overrated for that role. It just didn't work for me. Perkins isn't that great either.

What you all think?

Well, Psycho was the Hitchcock film that induced into the strongest emotional reaction from me. It is among my top 100 favorite films and is a very powerful film if you manage to watch it on its own terms.

One thing I learned while watching films is that you shouldn't focus on the flaws of specific films and instead you should focus on the strengths of the films in order to really get them. You can always find flaws in films as there isn't such a thing as a flawless film (with the possible exception of Miyazaki's, Kiki's Delivery Service (see http://thingthatdontsuck.blogspot.com.br/2010/04/25-part-5-kikis-delivery-service.html)), all films are flawed and so one can always criticize a film on its flaws and regard them as worthless/overrated.

[Guaporense]

Though I might agree that Psycho can be regarded as overrated in the sense that it is not an artistically sophisticated film (yes, it was innovative but it wasn't something creative like Tarkovsky's). It is not, for me, a 10/10 film (I rated it 9/10) and it isn't comparable (to my subjective perception of film) to truly great things like Blade Runner. But, again, that's only my subjective perception.

While Hitchcock can be regarded as overrated because he is voted by critics as the greatest director of all time, but, in fact, is he greater than Kubrick, Kurosawa, Ozu or Tarkovsky (other directors that are nearly as well regarded by critics)? To my mind, no, he isn't. He makes good thriller films but he doesn't make real art (to my subjective perception) like the four directors above do and his films failed to leave the same impression on me as these four did.

I mean, "Vertigo" is the greatest film ever made? Its an effective, though I bit outdated thriller, that entertains the audience but looks rather pale if I compared to masterpieces such as Rashomon, Apocalypse Now, 8 1/2, 2001 and Late Spring. In fact, I even prefer to watch several James Cameron films over Vertigo, films that are anything but high cinema art. So I can agree that Vertigo and Psycho are overrated when compared to the top of the line of cinema and that while usually considered among the top 50 films ever made I would guess that they should be a few hundred positions lower.

[HitchFan97]

Hitchcock doesn't make real art? :skeptical: I don't know what you mean. He was a brilliant artist in every way; his films speak volumes about human interactions and are heavily ingrained in Freudian psychoanalysis. Vertigo is at least partially about the very nature of art. The depth of his work is just not as clearly apparent as some other great directors because he was also very preoccupied with entertaining his audience.

[MovieMad16]

I disagree about Psycho. Its a masterpiece and arguably the film that he will be remembered most for.

[HitchFan97]

I mean, "Vertigo" is the greatest film ever made? Its an effective, though I bit outdated thriller, that entertains the audience but looks rather pale if I compared to masterpieces such as Rashomon, Apocalypse Now, 8 1/2, 2001 and Late Spring. In fact, I even prefer to watch several James Cameron films over Vertigo, films that are anything but high cinema art. So I can agree that Vertigo and Psycho are overrated when compared to the top of the line of cinema and that while usually considered among the top 50 films ever made I would guess that they should be a few hundred positions lower.

Vertigo is far more than just an effective thriller. In fact, if you look at it as just a thriller, it's easy to see it as one of Hitchcock's weaker films. But it reveals itself more to me each time I watch it; you can approach it from literally countless angles. Yes, it's an effective thriller with great visuals, music, and performances. But it's also a meditation on the nature of art and creation, and in that sense it can be seen as representative of film itself. Yet you can still dig deeper. For a long time, I only admired Vertigo as a personal and confessional film for Hitchcock, but lately I've realized what a universal experience it is. The film's portrayal of love and obsession is no less than heartbreaking, and its display of the manner in which we all try to remake our loved ones in our own image of perfection is both painfully true and deeply resonant for me personally. And I know that I still haven't fully unlocked all of Vertigo's secrets; I know that I'll always be able to discover new things about it, because it's an endless obsession, just like Scottie's own experiences in the film.

[TheGirlWhoHadAllTheLuck x]

I think Hitchcock had a great eye for detail. He was able to make Psycho iconic. Whether you equate iconicism with quality is a different matter.

For me, Anthony Perkins makes the film. The other actors are bland and the sleuthing looks like something from an old-fashioned detective story.

[supertexgrrl]

Did you guys know that Psycho and Texas Chain Saw Massacre were based on the life of Ed Gein, a real serial killer? It's a little scarier with that in mind. Although the only thing Psycho borrows from real life is the "mother" thing. This film was ground breaking in it's time. I Love Lucy was the first TV show where they showed people in bed under the covers and this was controversial at the time.

Did not know that about Ed Gein

[SammyNoNo]

I agree with the OP. Perhaps I'm not so impressed because I'm in my early 20's, but I found the movie to lack any semblance of suspense.

[TheGirlWhoHadAllTheLuck x]

I agree with the OP. Perhaps I'm not so impressed because I'm in my early 20's, but I found the movie to lack any semblance of suspense.

Is this because you knew the twist?