What makes people human?

[Midnight FM]

It's hard to say, but I think that the story of a person's life has a large role in what makes them human.

People tend to describe others in simpler terms (e.x. they meet a clerk at a store who they find to be polite, but don't actually know the entirety of who the person is).

Regarding people's physical forms, these consist of body and mind (and spirit, though it is harder to describe what spirit is). Though I would argue that a person's physical form, and even their thoughts aren't the entirety of what makes them human.

[Stirchley]

Speech. The ability to talk to each other makes us human.

[Citizen Rules]

Two turntables and a microphone.

[Yoda]

'Human' is a biological term, so the boring answer is: any organism of the genus homo sapien.

But taking the question on likely intent, rephrased as "What makes someone a person?," I believe it's the capacity for self-awareness.

[The Rodent]

Speech. The ability to talk to each other makes us human.

Animals do have elements of language.
Dolphins and whales are known to use specific calls for specific individuals.

Birds, especially Budgies, actually name one another.
Not just specific calls, but actual names.

Ground squirrels have been recorded as using complex language to identify predators... from their size, gender, colour, and general threat... they actually have language.

'Human' is a biological term, so the boring answer is: any organism of the genius homo sapien.

But taking the question on likely intent, rephrased as "What makes someone a person?," I believe it's the capacity for self-awareness.

Self-awareness is found in lots of fauna.
Dogs especially get embarrassed at certain situations, and many animals from apes to dolphins and even fish are known to understand mirrors.

Technology is something you could put into the argument... but birds especially are known to use tools, and even create tools.
As are other apes.
Some people might even say written language rather than just spoken language... but it's a fact that Neanderthal especially, had written language.
It was simply, and pictograph forms, but, it is a written language.

As for the "Homo-Sapien" thing as well, all humans today, Modern Humans, contain the DNA of all types of Hominid from history.
From Sapien, to Erectus (hehe), to Neanderthal and Denisovan and all others in between.

All of those didn't go extinct, leaving Homo-Sapiens to take over... the simple fact is that they all existed at the same time, or had time and geographical boundaries crossing over each other, and they/we, all interbred over history, leaving what is today, a Mongrel Species that we incorrectly refer to as Homo-Sapien.

Every Human on Earth is a midge-modge of all types, so closely related to one another that we can interbreed regardless of physical differences.

As for DNA itself... Humans are closer to pigs in terms of DNA, than the African elephant is to the Asian elephant... yet those elephants can interbreed... but we can't interbreed with pigs.
But, we can take a pig heart, liver, kidneys, and transplant them into a Human, as it's a viable DNA option.

Some people might argue that the creation of money, or bartering, is a Human thing.
But, it's been seen in wild monkeys and apes in Asia and Africa, that should one have a nice piece of food, they will actually offer it to a female in return for sexual relations.
So money, taxes, bartering, are not a Human-only trait.

Weird huh?

But, yeah... as for the OP...
I'd say what makes a Human is a complexity of intelligence, self-awareness, knack for technology, language, writing... lots of things combined, not just the things I've mentioned, but lots of combinations of lots of different things found across all of nature, make a Modern Human.

[John-Connor]

free will

[The Rodent]

free will

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOUAQ61E-avL_UNjKRhSm8LBAuPoJpSAsqStaXgM6CqTNP1yUalpFhYI213JiPZ9H7-qH0

[Citizen Rules]

free willPretty sure my cat has oodles of free will:p

[Yoda]

Self-awareness is found in lots of fauna.
Yeah, this is gonna be one of those "wait, what exactly do you mean by that term?" things. In my case it was shorthand for a paragraph-long definition full of caveats that I considered including preemptively but decided against. The longer version would include something about a self that can regard itself as a self, distinct from an organism that can take actions that involve itself, which can happen as pure compulsion.

Ultimately if you believe there is a dividing line between humans and other creatures (which I do), it has to be somewhere in our consciousness and how it differs. Drawing that line is naturally a bit harder, if only because our own consciousness is still so poorly understood, though that fact in itself is part of the reason for my answer.

[John-Connor]

:D

[Captain Steel]

How to pronounce the word sentient.
Is it sen-ti-ent or sen-shunt?

[The Rodent]

How to pronounce the word sentient.
Is it sen-ti-ent or sen-shunt?

I've heard it said sen-shee-yent

[Citizen Rules]

Animals do have elements of language.
Dolphins and whales are known to use specific calls for specific individuals.

Birds, especially Budgies, actually name one another.
Not just specific calls, but actual names.

Ground squirrels have been recorded as using complex language to identify predators... from their size, gender, colour, and general threat... they actually have language.

Self-awareness is found in lots of fauna.
Dogs especially get embarrassed at certain situations, and many animals from apes to dolphins and even fish are known to understand mirrors.

Technology is something you could put into the argument... but birds especially are known to use tools, and even create tools.
As are other apes.
Some people might even say written language rather than just spoken language... but it's a fact that Neanderthal especially, had written language.
It was simply, and pictograph forms, but, it is a written language.

As for the "Homo-Sapien" thing as well, all humans today, Modern Humans, contain the DNA of all types of Hominid from history.
From Sapien, to Erectus (hehe), to Neanderthal and Denisovan and all others in between.

All of those didn't go extinct, leaving Homo-Sapiens to take over... the simple fact is that they all existed at the same time, or had time and geographical boundaries crossing over each other, and they/we, all interbred over history, leaving what is today, a Mongrel Species that we incorrectly refer to as Homo-Sapien.

Every Human on Earth is a midge-modge of all types, so closely related to one another that we can interbreed regardless of physical differences.

As for DNA itself... Humans are closer to pigs in terms of DNA, than the African elephant is to the Asian elephant... yet those elephants can interbreed... but we can't interbreed with pigs.
But, we can take a pig heart, liver, kidneys, and transplant them into a Human, as it's a viable DNA option.

Some people might argue that the creation of money, or bartering, is a Human thing.
But, it's been seen in wild monkeys and apes in Asia and Africa, that should one have a nice piece of food, they will actually offer it to a female in return for sexual relations.
So money, taxes, bartering, are not a Human-only trait.

Weird huh?

But, yeah... as for the OP...
I'd say what makes a Human is a complexity of intelligence, self-awareness, knack for technology, language, writing... lots of things combined, not just the things I've mentioned, but lots of combinations of lots of different things found across all of nature, make a Modern Human.Impressive post! I enjoyed reading it.

[The Rodent]

Impressive post! I enjoyed reading it.

:) thanks, man.
Dude, I've done so much research on genetics and history and yet still know so little about it it's unreal.
I think I gave up when they started making more discoveries on DNA between Humans and decided it was just too much that we'll never understand.

[Stirchley]

I've heard it said sen-shee-yent

Sentient says I.

[Citizen Rules]

:) thanks, man.
Dude, I've done so much research on genetics and history and yet still know so little about it it's unreal.
I think I gave up when they started making more discoveries on DNA between Humans and decided it was just too much that we'll never understand.Can ask a question. On another thread you said you don't follow news or current events (I don't either basically) so my question is instead of following news do you watch and read a lot of scientific and nature shows and articles? If so, cool🙂

[The Rodent]

Can ask a question. On another thread you said you don't follow news or current events (I don't either basically) so my question is instead of following news do you watch and read a lot of scientific and nature shows and articles? If so, cool🙂

History and nature stuff.
Love watching history shows and looking into the politics of bygone eras.

I also studied Astrophysics and planetary physics for a bit, and combined my research by studying meteorology and historical subjects like palaeontology and paleobiology etc, ancient meteorology records and so on... a wrote a thesis on Global Warming that I found out afterward has a connection to Milankovitch Cycles from planetary physics :laugh:

Also did some study on psychology due to my own mental health problems and that I was able to cross reference my studies with a friend of mine who's a psychologist.
I even ended up at one point proof reading her dissertations to get her doctorate before she handed them in :D

It's all part of being a recluse I think.
I got PTSD, Agoraphobia and suffer with paranoia as well... so all I have is to read sh*t and write very amateur thesis.

[Citizen Rules]

History and nature stuff.
Love watching history shows and looking into the politics of bygone eras.

I also studied Astrophysics and planetary physics for a bit, and combined my research by studying meteorology and historical subjects like palaeontology and paleobiology etc, ancient meteorology records and so on... a wrote a thesis on Global Warming that I found out afterward has a connection to Milankovitch Cycles from planetary physics :laugh:

Also did some study on psychology due to my own mental health problems and that I was able to cross reference my studies with a friend of mine who's a psychologist.
I even ended up at one point proof reading her dissertations to get her doctorate before she handed them in :D

It's all part of being a recluse I think.
I got PTSD, Agoraphobia and suffer with paranoia as well... so all I have is to read sh*t and write very amateur thesis.Once again I'm impressed! I'm interested in all those subjects but I just don't have the free time to get into them more. So much to learn it boggles the mind.

[The Rodent]

Once again I'm impressed! I'm interested in all those subjects but I just don't have the free time to get into them more. So much to learn it boggles the mind.

Here's one for ya...

The heatwaves we're experiencing in 2023, 2024... and one to come in 2025...

I predicted in 2008 when I studied astrophysics.

I've predicted back in 2008 also, that from 2025 to around 2040, we'll have White Christmases again, but the Summers will be killers.

I found there's a gentle sway in Earth's orbit that rocks back and forth over a 40-50 or so year period.
2025 to 2040... the weather will be like the 1970s: Blistering Summers... White Christmases.

Then, from around 2040 leading into 2050 and into the mid 2050s, it'll be like the 1980s and early 90s: Cold Winters, but not WC's... and the Summers warm but bearable.

By 2055 to 2070, it'll be how it was about 10-15 years ago... wet soggy winters, and Summers that last barely 2 days of mild sunshine.

By the 2070s to 2080s, it'll be back again like 2025 to 2040, and the 1970s with Summers that kill from the heat, and White Christmases again.

The rock/sway in the perihelion and aphelion of Earth's orbit causes it.

The Milankovitch Cycles are a similar occurrence in the Earth's Orbit.

[The Rodent]

Maybe that's what makes us Human...

The need to study and learn in depth.

[Mr Minio]

'Human' is a biological term, so the boring answer is: any organism of the genius homo sapien. Wow, Yoda thinks only geniuses are humans! :lol:

But taking the question on likely intent, rephrased as "What makes someone a person?," I believe it's the capacity for self-awareness.

Yeah, humans have the natural capacity to be self-aware, although not all humans have the immediate capacity to be self-aware. It's a little bit like all MoFos have the natural capacity to speak Cantonese (they're the kind of creature who can learn it), but none have the immediate capacity to speak it (unless we have any members from Hong Kong or Guangdong).

If you equate self-awareness to self-consciousness, like recognizing yourself in the mirror, then newborns can't do that, but some animals like magpies can.

I believe that you, of all people, would prefer to use a much simpler definition: what makes you a person is being a member of the rational kind. This is a good definition for at least three reasons:

It includes any individual from an intelligent alien race who is a person, but isn't a human.
It's foolproof against attempts to call people with impaired self-awareness subhuman.
It bypasses the whole natural vs. immediate capacity discussion ("Am I self-aware when under general anesthesia during a surgery?").


Ugh, you and Swan know how to take me out of a self-imposed hiatus.

[Yoda]

Wow, Yoda thinks only geniuses are humans! :lol:
Blame autocorrect. Which is particularly ironic because it obviously thought it was smarter than me. 'No no, you don't want to say that. Say this instead.' I said what I said. Silence, robot.

Yeah, humans have the natural capacity to be self-aware, although not all humans have the immediate capacity to be self-aware. It's a little bit like all MoFos have the natural capacity to speak Cantonese (they're the kind of creature who can learn it), but none have the immediate capacity to speak it (unless we have any members from Hong Kong or Guangdong).

If you equate self-awareness to self-consciousness, like recognizing yourself in the mirror, then newborns can't do that, but some animals like magpies can.
Infants are precisely why I included the word capacity, yes.

I believe that you, of all people, would prefer to use a much simpler definition
I did, but my desire for simplicity is often at odds with my desire to head off obvious objections. I often have to pick between the two.

Ugh, you and Swan know how to take me out of a self-imposed hiatus.
:modest:

[The Rodent]

what makes you a person is being a member of the rational kind. .


Aha!

Nail... meet hammer...

Minio has it with "Rationale".

All animals... don't have rational thoughts.

Apes, dogs, cats... monkeys... fish...

It's mostly instinct with hints and flashes of genius (like tool making and technology, and self-awareness).
Animals run purely on instinct, using little to no actual rationale to their current mood or behaviour.
See something... kill it, or run from it.
Something made you angry? Like, entered your territory? Kill it. Attack. Rip it apart... with no rational thought. Just kill.
Something scared you? Run. Fast. Don't look back... and don't use rational thought. Just... run.

Toddlers and babies are like that.
Put two toddlers in a room with a handful of toys... at some point, there's gonna be a full on, uncontrollable fight.
No rationale.
Just... fight. Attack. Rip the other one apart.

Babies just cry for help because it's built in to do so because the brain hasn't grown to understand the fight-or-flight thing yet.

Look at chimps... they're essentially the same as toddlers.
"You p*ssed me off... I'm going to rip you to pieces..." and it's jus animal instinct.


This was something I learned from studying psychology... racism and xenophobia are essentially in-built responses to an alien presence.
Like a wolfpack entering the territory of another wolfpack... there's gonna be a fight.
An Ape Troupe... wanders into another troupe's grounds... there's gonna be a fight.
Bird flocks are the same.
As are pods of dolphins.
Prides of Lions as well.
As are all animals.

What makes "A Human"... rational thought.

Thank you, Mr Minio...

[pahaK]

'Human' is a biological term, so the boring answer is: any organism of the genus homo sapien.

This would be my answer, too.

You can't just pick an ability and say it makes us human. Be it self-awareness, language, or rationale, it would be probable that there are, have been, or will be distinctly non-human beings with that ability (be it aliens, AI, some other animal thousands or millions of years further in their evolution, etc. - and if you're a religious person, gods, angels, devils, etc. would certainly check that box too).

To me, the whole question is nothing more than an echo of spiritual vanity; a declaration saying "I'm human, I must be special".

[Citizen Rules]

....To me, the whole question is nothing more than an echo of spiritual vanity; a declaration saying "I'm human, I must be special".True enough. If there's one word I'd never describe humans as, it's special.

[I_Wear_Pants]

Needing money.

It's amazing how smart everyone here thinks they are...

[beelzebubble]

The opposable thumb.

[Mr Minio]

Needing money. Maybe, which is part of being rational.

The issue I have with money is that, should we discover some animals use currency, we'd be forced to call them human. Some animals indeed collect tokens (like pebbles or branches) and give them to alpha males as tribute or exchange them for sex, so while not exactly "money" money, there's some primitive understanding of trade, exchange, and the duality behind a thing's purpose (a pebble can be both "money" that pays for sex, as well as something you can use when building a nest).

The opposable thumb. Koalas have two. Are they more human than we?

[beelzebubble]

Koalas have two. Are they more human than we?
Possibly.

[Citizen Rules]

Possibly.Probably they are.

[beelzebubble]

Probably they are.
They are definitely cuter.

[hownos]

The ability to imagine

[Citizen Rules]

They are definitely cuter.Yup.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fscienceinfo.net%2Fdata-images%2Fimages%2Fwhy-does-koala-bear-not-always-drink-water-but-now-they-often-do-picture-3-UJn3GswVs.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=64722d858dac8f72a00bbe35b735e186b8c280999ce65baf129e9b06207569b6&ipo=images

[I_Wear_Pants]

Maybe, which is part of being rational.

The issue I have with money is that, should we discover some animals use currency, we'd be forced to call them human. Some animals indeed collect tokens (like pebbles or branches) and give them to alpha males as tribute or exchange them for sex, so while not exactly "money" money, there's some primitive understanding of trade, exchange, and the duality behind a thing's purpose (a pebble can be both "money" that pays for sex, as well as something you can use when building a nest).

Well there's that. It's an exchange of a good for a service, so it's a similar idea, and basically what money is, so maybe that isn't accurate.

I think just being genetically human makes us human. If I had the mind of a gorilla I'd be a gorilla even if I acted like a human. I have a mind of a human so I'm a human even if I acted like a gorilla. "Identifying" as something is different than "being" something. I'm human because I'm human. I watch movies because I watch movies. I don't like throwing the frisbee because I don't like throwing the frisbee. That cat is a cat because he is a cat. Rachel Zegler made stupid decisions because she makes stupid decisions. Sometimes things happen just because they happen or are things because they are things.

I'm getting a headache (I get headaches because I get headaches).

[Stirchley]

Well there's that. It's an exchange of a good for a service, so it's a similar idea, and basically what money is, so maybe that isn't accurate.

I think just being genetically human makes us human. If I had the mind of a gorilla I'd be a gorilla even if I acted like a human. I have a mind of a human so I'm a human even if I acted like a gorilla. "Identifying" as something is different than "being" something. I'm human because I'm human. I watch movies because I watch movies. I don't like throwing the frisbee because I don't like throwing the frisbee. That cat is a cat because he is a cat. Rachel Zegler made stupid decisions because she makes stupid decisions. Sometimes things happen just because they happen or are things because they are things.

I'm getting a headache (I get headaches because I get headaches).

What did Rachel Zegler do that was so horrible? Tell me if you have time.

[I_Wear_Pants]

What did Rachel Zegler do that was so horrible? Tell me if you have time.

She said some rather misguided things about the new version of Snow White and won't own up to them. I suppose I shouldn't have included her in my string of examples...

[Captain Steel]

She said some rather misguided things about the new version of Snow White and won't own up to them. I suppose I shouldn't have included her in my string of examples...

What was worse was Peter Dinklage coming out and saying that featuring real dwarves in Snow White and the Seven Dwarves was demeaning to little people (despite the fact that they are featured in the very title of the movie itself).

The actors portion of the little people community was outraged at Dinklage; saying it's hard enough for them to find work, then they have one of their own trying to make sure they can't get any acting jobs!

Adding insult to injury - the movie switched from its original decision to have "Seven Diverse People" to CGI dwarves - making the movie look ridiculous (there's already a classic version with animated dwarves) AND not casting any real dwarves in the movie.

It seems the people at Disney are just in a regular Lose / Lose (woke) scenario these days.

[I_Wear_Pants]

What was worse was Peter Dinklage coming out and saying that featuring real dwarves in Snow White and the Seven Dwarves was demeaning to little people (despite the fact that they are featured in the very title of the movie itself).

The actors portion of the little people community was outraged at Dinklage; saying it's hard enough for them to find work, then they have one of their own trying to make sure they can't get any acting jobs!

Adding insult to injury - the movie switched from its original decision to have "Seven Diverse People" to CGI dwarves - making the movie look ridiculous (there's already a classic version with animated dwarves) AND not casting any real dwarves in the movie.

It seems the people at Disney are just in a regular Lose / Lose (woke) scenario these days.

It was all a big mess. I don't know if any one person is to blame for the movie being a shamble. I just think Zegler hurt it a lot. I've never had interest in it regardless of its controversies. I'll stick with the original animated versions of these Disney films, thanks.