34th Hall of Fame

[Takoma11]

Can I get a little guidance on Before the Rain in regards to some of the content?

Spoilers, I guess:

I'm reading that a turtle/tortoise is tortured/burned and that a cat is repeatedly shot.

Can I get some details on when these things happen/cues for when to look away?

[Citizen Rules]

Can I get a little guidance on Before the Rain in regards to some of the content?

Spoilers, I guess:

I'm reading that a turtle/tortoise is tortured/burned and that a cat is repeatedly shot.

Can I get some details on when these things happen/cues for when to look away?I can, I'll PM you.

[cricket]

Those scenes were disturbing but I couldn't find anything on real animal cruelty.

[Citizen Rules]

Those scenes were disturbing but I couldn't find anything on real animal cruelty.At the end of the film it says 'no animals were hurt in the making of the film.'

[MovieGal]

At the end of the film it says 'no animals were hurt in the making of the film.'

Yeah, I was told by someone I was going to be burned at the stake because of those scenes.

The actual phrase "get strung up like a witch". But close enough.

I didnt remember they happened until I rewatched it for this HOF.

My first and only time was 10+ years ago.

[Citizen Rules]

Yeah, I was told by someone I was going to be burned at the stake because of those scenes.

I didnt remember they happened until I rewatched it for this HOF.

My first and only time was 10+ years ago.I don't know who told you that but it wasn't me.

[Takoma11]

Yeah, I was told by someone I was going to be burned at the stake because of those scenes.

While I don't like seeing animals hurt/killed, I only really draw the line at unsimulated cruelty. I know that you were very sensitive and respectful about that in a past HoF, but like you said, sometimes we don't remember details about movies we haven't seen in a while.

Thank you to everyone for helping clarify for me!

[TheManBehindTheCurtain]

My wife is very sensitive to scenes like this. So I consult the Parents Guide listing in IMDB a lot. I learned to start doing this years ago when I thought Scott Pilgrim Versus the World would be great for my 12 year old son, and at the last minute we wound up taking along our twin 10-year-old nieces as well. Kids sitting in between me and my wife, but I still remember her glaring at me during some scenes!

[MovieGal]

While I don't like seeing animals hurt/killed, I only really draw the line at unsimulated cruelty. I know that you were very sensitive and respectful about that in a past HoF, but like you said, sometimes we don't remember details about movies we haven't seen in a while.

Thank you to everyone for helping clarify for me!

Takoma11 yes, i would have picked another film but Before The Rain is very impacting.

I hope you enjoy it otherwise.

I had 3 to pick from.

[Takoma11]

Takoma11 yes, i would have picked another film but Before The Rain is very impacting.

I hope you enjoy it otherwise.

I'm sure I will. It's got great buzz so far.

[I_Wear_Pants]

I'm continuing People's Joker. I am not enjoying People's Joker. The people need a different Joker. I don't care for Joker's people. I want to hide under the bed. Maybe the monsters are less dumb.

Um. Yuck. I should have hid under the bed with the monsters. People's Joker feels like an excuse to say, "Look! I'm trans so I'm awesome!" and also for the lead to make out with some dude he liked. All of the acting is awful at best and it's an insult to Batman. Please don't make me watch this again.

Bear in mind no one has ever said I'm "transphobic" in my life. Of course that's actually mostly just because no one has said it than anything.

[stillmellow]

While I don't like seeing animals hurt/killed, I only really draw the line at unsimulated cruelty. I know that you were very sensitive and respectful about that in a past HoF, but like you said, sometimes we don't remember details about movies we haven't seen in a while.

Thank you to everyone for helping clarify for me!



The only movies I've liked that had unsimulated animal cruelty were Apocalypse Now and Pink Famingos.


The cow in Apocalypse Now was getting butchered that way no matter what. Pink Flamingos however had one very unnecessary chicken squishing.

[MovieGal]

The only movies I've liked that had unsimulated animal cruelty were Apocalypse Now and Pink Famingos.


The cow in Apocalypse Now was getting butchered that way no matter what. Pink Flamingos however had one very unnecessary chicken squishing.

Similar situation with Andrei Rublev, the horse was destined to be put down anyway.

[stillmellow]

I'm continuing People's Joker. I am not enjoying People's Joker. The people need a different Joker. I don't care for Joker's people. I want to hide under the bed. Maybe the monsters are less dumb.

Um. Yuck. I should have hid under the bed with the monsters. People's Joker feels like an excuse to say, "Look! I'm trans so I'm awesome!" and also for the lead to make out with some dude he liked. All of the acting is awful at best and it's an insult to Batman. Please don't make me watch this again.

Bear in mind no one has ever said I'm "transphobic" in my life. Of course that's actually mostly just because no one has said it than anything.



She isn't awesome because she's trans. Mr. J is trans and he sucks.


Joker the Harlequin is trans. Joker the Harlequin is awesome. It's two separate sentences.


You're welcome to disagree on whether she's awesome, or if the movie's worth watching. But the movie isn't saying she's awesome because she's trans. She's awesome because she's overcome the countless obstacles in her way.

[I_Wear_Pants]

He's just a random unfunny gay guy...

[stillmellow]

We are drifting way too far into politics and religion here.


Let's start with: her character never received any surgery in the movie. She only received hormones. But there wouldn't have been anything wrong if she did.


And calling surgery 'mutilation' is a crass misrepresentation. Between all the forum members, I'm pretty sure we have more than 1 elective surgery per person.

[stillmellow]

He's just a random unfunny gay guy...


You better be talking about Mr. J, the trans male character, or thems fighting words.

[Citizen Rules]

Lets keep it chill:) and let Stillmellow have the last post, no need to argue the points further. Pants, I did link your post as your review. Keep watching the noms and I hope you can catch up.

[stillmellow]

Has Chicago won a HoF yet? If not, that's my next nomination.

Man, Chicago is such a great movie. I can't wait to talk more about Chicago. 😀

[Citizen Rules]

Has Chicago won a HoF yet? If not, that's my next nomination.

Man, Chicago is such a great movie. I can't wait to talk more about Chicago. 😀Nope it hasn't. It hasn't ever been nominated. Good movie...Check this MoFo thread out and take a look at the first 3 post.
https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=52323

[stillmellow]

(#RunningGag)

[TheManBehindTheCurtain]

Holy Moly! I just scrolled through that HoF Archives. Had no idea how many people have been contributing and how many great movies have been reviewed here over the years. So even more honored to be a newbie here. (Signed up 15 years ago but only recently started participating in earnest.) If I get a second chance, I'll have to give my nomination criteria deeper thought. But I hope I don't get into a HoF with Chicago. Anything but that. :eek: ;)

[cricket]

Has Chicago won a HoF yet? If not, that's my next nomination.

Man, Chicago is such a great movie. I can't wait to talk more about Chicago. 😀

It'll have a much better chance if it's a HoF I don't join :)

[MovieGal]

Unfortunately, the next 2 general HOF, you all may hate me..

[I_Wear_Pants]

Lets keep it chill:) and let Stillmellow have the last post, no need to argue the points further. Pants, I did link your post as your review. Keep watching the noms and I hope you can catch up.

Okay. I will add no more.

I'll move onto Persona or Rocco and His Brothers in the next day or two, and catch the other one soon after that. I have two weeks to watch six more so I should be okay. Persona is one I intended to watch some time ago so now I have extra motivation. As with most movies, I'm trying really hard to have no, or at least low, expectations.

[Citizen Rules]

Okay. I will add no more.

I'll move onto Persona or Rocco and His Brothers in the next day or two, and catch the other one soon after that. I have two weeks to watch six more so I should be okay. Persona is one I intended to watch some time ago so now I have extra motivation. As with most movies, I'm trying really hard to have no, or at least low, expectations.Thanks for trying to keep up. You can do it!

[I_Wear_Pants]

Thanks for trying to keep up. You can do it!

I have some time during the day the next two days which will help. I'll make it work.

[I_Wear_Pants]

Unfortunately, the next 2 general HOF, you all may hate me..

Nominate something different then...?

[MovieGal]

Nominate something different then...?

Nope, they are not films with animal violence or anything extreme..so im sticking with them.

[rauldc14]

Before the Rain

https://a.ltrbxd.com/resized/sm/upload/iy/3i/y4/dy/before the rain-1200-1200-675-675-crop-000000.jpg?v=976717a7f5

This movie really started strong but it withers away quite quickly. Act 1 is quite an engaging chunk of film for me but it doesn't seem to replicate that in the second or third act which is disappointing for me. The acting is pretty solid for the whole duration. The story falls off for me though and quite steeply. Throughout the entire film though it really has a great visual outlook. I wish I could be more engaged with the back half of the film but that just wasn't the case.

2.5+

[I_Wear_Pants]

Nope, they are not films with animal violence or anything extreme..so im sticking with them.

So you want people to hate you...

[MovieGal]

So you want people to hate you...

Not necessarily hate me but might not like the film choice...too bad...they are two of my favorite films of two different genres.

[MovieGal]

In regards to Before The Rain, the second story links the first to the third. You really need to pay attention to a scene in the first story, its the outcome of the third.

in the first story, you see a funeral being held and you see a lonely woman standing in the distant. It's Anne. She came to Macedonia for Alex but its too late. The funeral is of Alex, as we see him shot in the third story.

I guess sometimes its best to rewatch the film, to piece together the full story.

The second story does seem the weakest but its just as important as the other two.

[I_Wear_Pants]

Not necessarily hate me but might not like the film choice...too bad...they are two of my favorite films of two different genres.

Oh got it. I'll watch whatever. I can't guarantee I'll like everything, obviously. I'll give whatever a shot. Nor will I hate you.

[MovieGal]

Oh got it. I'll watch whatever. I can't guarantee I'll like everything, obviously. I'll give whatever a shot. Nor will I hate you.

Some ppl only like classics or arthouse. These are neither.

[I_Wear_Pants]

Some ppl only like classics or arthouse. These are neither.

I love how Good Bad Weird was nominated for this one, and the film itself, and it is neither arthouse nor classic, so yeah. My tastes are inconsistent and also eclectic. I have never regretted watching a film once because I watched it to know if I ever want to watch it again.

[MovieGal]

I love how Good Bad Weird was nominated for this one, and the film itself, and it is neither arthouse nor classic, so yeah. My tastes are inconsistent and also eclectic. I have never regretted watching a film once because I watched it to know if I ever want to watch it again.

Pay close to mine..

[I_Wear_Pants]

Pay close to mine..

I'm stumped. I'm not sure what this means.

[MovieGal]

I'm stumped. I'm not sure what this means.

Pay close attention to things in my nomination.

[I_Wear_Pants]

Pay close attention to things in my nomination.

Oh okay. If I remember I can.

[Citizen Rules]

Is anybody watching noms? I feel kinda lonely with nothing to do...

[MovieGal]

Nope..im done for now...

[Citizen Rules]

Nope..im done for now...So am I. I could've watched all the noms in 2 weeks time.

[MovieGal]

So am I. I could've watched all the noms in 2 weeks time.

Yeah i could have too.

[Citizen Rules]

Yeah i could have too.I actually thought about doing a Lighting Round HoF...a dozen movies in two weeks. It's never be done.

[MovieGal]

I actually thought about doing a Lighting Round HoF...a dozen movies in two weeks. It's never be done.

Depending on whats nominated for me

[Citizen Rules]

Depending on whats nominated for me
I have lots of neat HoF ideas I've never done yet.

[John W Constantine]

Is anybody watching noms? I feel kinda lonely with nothing to do...
35th HoF.

[Takoma11]

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs3.us-west-004.backblazeb2.com%2Fmdc-media%2F2017%2F02%2Flb145F4z-blue_01-1080x675.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=1232d77033d4c8a0257dd4c6ed24917cb681fb399433e8be39d70d2dda33d06d&ipo=images

Blue, 1993

When picking a film for a Hall of Fame, my mind automatically goes to a movie I liked, but want to revisit. This time around, the choice was very easy, because Blue has been bouncing around in my head ever since I watched it for the first time last year.

In rereading the review I wrote from my first viewing, I can tell that I was never able to put into words exactly how this movie made me feel. The closest word might be “unsettled”, but it’s a deeper feeling than that. This time around I’m not necessarily able to name that feeling, but I do know more why I feel it.

When I was younger, I used to set our family’s VCR to record shows and music videos. Many times, I would set the tape to record and just go to bed, waiting to see the next day what I captured. But sometimes the VCR would turn off, or time out or whatever, and I’d be watching the tape and a late night show would suddenly slip into blue. The blue in this film, for me, is the blue of 2am and the accompanying feeling of no more. Nothing left. It’s something like an existential dread, or a deep feeling of loneliness.

I think that the blue of this movie is Derek Jarman showing us hell. Hell is no more. Hell is nothing to see. Hell is nothing to show and a soundscape that goes from designed to overwhleming chaos in a moment. The first time I watched this movie, I’d just come off of a marathon of Jarman’s films, and even the ones I didn’t love still had moments of striking beauty or visual interest. I think about this shot from Sebastian all the time: Sebastian (Leonardo Treviglio) is sitting on some rocks in the water. His shadow falls on the water, and creates this beautiful window in the shape of his body through which you can see into the water, while the rest of the water is masked by the diffused light of the sun hitting its surface. Seeing the world around us and then showing that word is breathing in and breathing out. Jarman in this film shows us that he is losing his ability to breathe in.

It is almost impossible to watch this movie, in my opinion. To look at nothing but blue for 78 minutes is torturous, and even when I give it my best shot, I find my eyes wandering, seeking even the most basic stimulation. But for Jarman, in his encroaching blindness, there is no reprieve. For me, that is also part of the power of this film. To show us that we cannot walk in this person’s shoes even for 78 minutes. It’s like saying “Sure, I could see what it’s like to be homeless!” and then 10 minutes later you’re in the car with the heat on because you got too cold. I don’t think that the movie ever does this in a scolding way, but I had gone into the movie this time determined to fully watch it, and I physically couldn’t.

And that brings me to another aspect of this film that I love: the idea of death and suffering as something at once deeply personal, but also totally universal. Jarman is understandably consumed by the miseries inflicted on him by his own illness, but he takes time to mention the woman visiting her adult son who has been horribly affected by meningitis, or the victims of an airplane crash who were killed sleeping in their home. But interlaced with the interactions with others is an awareness that his ability to connect with them is slowly being dulled. The woman weeping for her son is just as abstract to us as she is to Jarman, who reports that he can’t see her, “just the sound of her sobbing.”

Jarman shows us many sides of grief in this film, ranging from dryly humorous to angry. Jarman wants to show us something more raw, and early on he speaks with disdain of the way that HIV/AIDS has been taken over by survivors, "A sense of reality, drowned in theater". He is here to bring us the reality and the theater, from the inside. No arm's length comfort of a documentary or factual presentation of what is happening to him. I like the way that he indulges in, and then subverts, many of the cliches of death and dying. Early in the film, we get an angelic choir chanting. By the end of the film they’re chanting has taken on the words “I am a mannish, muff-diving size queen with a bad attitude” and “I am a Not Gay.” Everything that Jarman says is weighed down with the acknowledgement that he knows he is dying. Speaking of some of the side effects of the medication he notes, “If I had to live 40 years blind, I might rethink my choice.” His life might be slightly prolonged, but it will not be saved.

Lastly, this time around I was struck by the repeated use of the bell. If you are not familiar, there is a meditation technique where you ring a bell and then try to identify the exact moment that you can no longer hear it. I personally find this practice a bit unnerving, as I always struggle to tell whether I’m still hearing the bell or just imagining it. Trying to detect the point where something has become nothing. The bell, I think, serves as a powerful audio analogy for what is happening to Jarman’s vision and to his life.

Diminishing, diminishing, until it will be nothing.

4.5

[TheManBehindTheCurtain]

Is anybody watching noms? I feel kinda lonely with nothing to do...

Caught up also. I've also "prewatched" one of the two remaining. Seems from the conversations we're on pause for now for 34?

I wouldn't be able to keep up with a lightning round of a dozen in two weeks! But I'd be happy to follow along ...

[Citizen Rules]

@MovieGal (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=80538) @jiraffejustin (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=76459) @John W Constantine (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=109412) @PHOENIX74 (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=112080)
@rauldc14 (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=60169) @edarsenal (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=50536) @Torgo (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=109334) @Takoma11 (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=107735) @ueno_station54 (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=111569) @stillmellow (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=124844) @cricket (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=68505) @TheManBehindTheCurtain @I_Wear_Pants (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=96027)

This will be my last group @mention before we get to the reveal of the noms placements:


The deadline will be midnight April 14th to have all of your movies watched and reviewed. Unless Jiraffejustin or Pants catches up then I will extend the deadline one week for each movie of theirs.

BUT if they don't catch up the deadline is April 14th. You'll need to have all movies watched and reviewed before sending in your ballots.

You can send your ballots now and if need be you can resend them if JJ and Pants watches all the noms. I will disqualify all noms from members who haven't completed the HoF and submitted their ballots by the deadline as described above. Thank you🙂

[Takoma11]

I'm almost caught up. I knew how I'd feel after watching Blue, so I put it off for a little while.

(Also, I can't BELIEVE I accidentally went out of order and skipped The Good, the Bad, and the Weird!! Definitely not something that will continue to bother me for the next 5 or so years).

[Citizen Rules]

I'm almost caught up. I knew how I'd feel after watching Blue, so I put it off for a little while.

(Also, I can't BELIEVE I accidentally went out of order and skipped The Good, the Bad, and the Weird!! Definitely not something that will continue to bother me for the next 5 or so years).Thanks Takoma. I think alot of the members are doing fine but I wanted to spell out the deadline just so there was no misunderstandings. We sill have 10 days counting today.:)

[stillmellow]

Thanks Takoma. I think alot of the members are doing fine but I wanted to spell out the deadline just so there was no misunderstandings. We sill have 10 days counting today.:)


Pariah is going to be a tough watch, but I'm too much of a completionist to leave one movie un-reviewed.


Also, I want my votes too count,oif course. 😄

[Citizen Rules]

Pariah is going to be a tough watch, but I'm too much of a completionist to leave one movie un-reviewed.


Also, I want my votes too count,oif course. 😄:up:Thanks stillmellow, I appreciate it.

[Takoma11]

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fm.media-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FM%2FMV5BMjE0OTc3NTcwNV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwOTQyNzE1MjE%40._V1_.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=ec937bc7279daae54b4a19c2a90d9fba4f60a2ed64afeb8a47cc7d35b0bcb9a7&ipo=images

The Good, the Bad, and the Weird, 2008

A trio of men---bounty hunter Park Do-won (Jung Woo-sung), eccentric thief Yoon Tae-goo (Song Kang-ho), and ruthless outlaw Park Chang-yi (Lee Byung-hun)--converge over a rare map leading the way to a lost treasure. As the men hunt each other and the map across the wilderness, uneasy alliances form and various other parties join in the chase.

This is a rollicking action adventure that loses a bit of steam in the last act.

There is something refreshingly nostalgic about the overall plot and character arcs of this movie, and it really sings when it embraces some of the more fun elements of a treasure hunting plot. There’s a scene in this movie, part of a longer setpiece, where Park grabs hold of dangling rope and swings himself around the tops of buildings, sharpshooting bad guys and it’s an engaging camera shot and just right at the edge of cartoonish.

The casting is also absolutely spot on. Jung sells the focus and borderline humorlessness of a lawman. For much of the film, his main job is to be the straight-man for Yoon’s wacky criminal, and he’s able to play that role without fading too much into dour sincerity. Lee is menacing and brings a tortured, troubled energy to his vicious outlaw. For me, this character felt like a nod to the troubled antagonist of For a Few Dollars More, a man who is undoubtedly evil, but also carrying around some heavy past trauma. Finally, the predictably entertaining Song brings plenty of physical comedy and bug-eyed reaction shots. His portrayal of a “weaving” run to avoid gunfire----taking like the tiniest little steps side to side---never fails to make me laugh.

I also really love the epic scope of the film, which confidently moves between multiple large and memorable setpieces. It all kicks off with a robbery on a train. From there, we get a complex shootout in a small town. On, then, to an extended chase across the desert. At last, we arrive at a familiar (in a nice way) Mexican standoff. Each section of the film has a distinct look and feel, and makes the most of its setting.

I had watched this film years ago, and I had the distinct memory of rating it a 7/10 on IMDb. For like the first half hour, I was kind of surprised that my rating wasn’t higher. But then, oof, the horse stuff. I’d forgotten about this, but boy are horses treated terribly in this film. One horse if brutally wire-tripped and rolls over its own neck. Another two horses are wire-tripped at the same time and one falls over the other. A third horse is forced up a collapsing ramp and falls from at least 6 feet. And after three incidents of this inhumane stuntwork, I was done. I kind of checked out for most of the race in the desert, because every time I looked up a horse was being dangerously mistreated.

Animal stuff aside, I also got action movie fatigue around the ⅔ point of the film. After the sequence in the small town, I sort of disconnected from the movie.

Despite the rough 20 or so minutes in the last act, the final 15 minutes of the movie are really great. There are plot and character developments at the end that are very interesting and shift the dynamics of the movie in unpredictable and delightful ways.

So much good stuff, but the animal mistreatment really dings it for me.

3.5

[Takoma11]

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.superherohype.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F4%2F2024%2F03%2FScreenshot_2023-11-29_at_10.38.54_AM_1200x675-2024-03-05T144512.937.jpg%3Fw%3D1024&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=6c4f8170f7e4074679b4e952c4f9dbb24117ec8f130ff49218134f185881e358&ipo=images

The People’s Joker, 2022

A child (Griffin Kramer) grows up sensing that they were born in the body. On growing up, they move to Gotham City where they become Joker the Harlequin (Vera Drew). In a society where all comedy is outlawed, Joker starts an anti-comedy club with friend the Penguin (Nathan Faustyn). But all is not smooth sailing, as Joker must contend with abusive boyfriend Mr. J (Kane Distler) and attempting to make amends with her controlling mother (Lynn Downey).

This deeply personal, outlandish parody is absolutely delightful.

When you hear a lot of conversation about a film----but mostly about the circumstances about a film---it’s hard to imagine what it actually is. I’ve been looking forward to checking out this movie ever since the buzz around it when it was shown, and then pulled, at film festivals. It wasn’t anything like what I imagined, and yet I also feel like it surpassed my expectations.

After almost two decades of superhero movies taking on the same dull palette, the same glib tone, and the same CGI-heavy bloated action scenes, there’s something borderline miraculous about someone taking a longstanding superhero universe and crafting it into something that is just about the complete antithesis of what superhero media has looked like for the last 20 years.

This movie might not have the biggest budget, but I actually responded very positively to its aesthetic, which reminds me a lot of the media that would have been popular around the time of Vera Drew’s childhood and teenage years. Anyone remember the Dogzilla book?
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fprodimage.images-bn.com%2Fpimages%2F9780152049492_p1_v1_s550x406.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=d6693fd6094e0f965d86b99a063ff1a1de34476aec73109fdbe4a37658f91aeb&ipo=images. There are also nods to things like Minecraft or early-era 3-D computer animation. For me, it felt like watching a mish-mash of someone’s childhood pop culture, and the way that they have conceived themselves through that media.

There are a few times that the film seemed like it was dipping into explainer mode. An early monologue about how Drew figured out that she was transgender; a later discussion about recognizing an abusive relationship. But while these moments felt a bit too on the nose, I do appreciate that there is a dearth of movies speaking so directly to---and not just about ---queer and trans youth, so I didn’t mind them too much. And for the most part, the movie doesn’t feel like it’s trying to explain to people outside the trans/queer experience, but mostly just living inside of it.

The movie is also nicely nuanced and uninterested in an us vs them mentality when it comes to transgender vs cisgender, queer vs hetero people, or men vs women. The only “us” is people who feel marginalized or on the outside, and the only “them” are those who use power to control others. Mr. J, despite a backstory that includes being transgender and suffering sexual coercion from a trusted authority figure, is one of the main antagonists of the film. The Penguin, who is pretty cis/straight coded, is one of the nicest characters, and is certainly Joker’s best ally in the whole film.

And while the whole film looks at the various stages and challenges of being transgender in a world that can be very hostile, the theme that I appreciate the most was the idea that trying to “fix” people who are different is often more about assuaging the discomfort of the majority than actually helping the person being “healed”. In the film, characters are simply prescribed Smylex, a drug that puts a smile on their faces. In Joker’s case, this is about comforting her mother, and in an early therapy session, Joker is disdainfully asked to consider how being transgender has impacted her mother.

Finally, I was just overall very into the vibe of the movie. A lot of the humor just worked for me. At one point, Penguin rants at Joker that she’s selling out to “kiss Lorne Michaels’ *ss”, and she replies, “I can’t kiss his *ss,” then mumbles “You know we can’t afford to animate the back of him”. Oh, and a character played by Maria Bamford? Yes please. The whole thing is scattershot, but it’s a constructed, intentional scattershot.

Full of heart. No notes!

4.5

[rauldc14]

I watched I Confess for my director dissection so I'm good to go if it comes back as eligible.

[Citizen Rules]

I watched I Confess for my director dissection so I'm good to go if it comes back as eligible.It's not, Pants messaged me last night and said he couldn't finish. So I Confess is out for good, we'll see about Gone With The Wind.

[jiraffejustin]

Inside Moves

The movie looks okay and is pretty well acted. A problem I have with a lot of sports movies is that they don't get the sports part right. The sports scenes in this one aren't necessarily the worst I've ever seen, but it's hard to buy ol' boy going from crippled to semi-pro to playing for the Golden State Warriors. Also, kinda hard for me to swallow that one of our heroes was just willing to f*ck his boy's girl no problem and then we just forgive him and root him on to victory in a professional basketball game. Also wild that he just gets the shit kicked out of him by a pimp and then later the pimp gets tripped by the crippled guy and falls down the stairs at the basketball game that they both just happened to be at and both just happened to be in the same area at the same time. And he also happened to see the girl that caused his boy to get the shit kicked out of him just before he left and she had no idea he was now a professional basketball player. If the movie had a little more going for it, I'd be able to overlook some of those things.

[stillmellow]

Pariah


https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTM1MTQyNTY3NV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwODk0ODk2Ng@@._V1_.jpg


A very tough watch for me, because it hits very close to home. I won't go into detail, but I still face a lot of these issues within my family.


The movie is less focused on the hostility of the outside world, and more focused on the danger queer people face inside their own homes, growing up. I do know what emotional and psychological abuse is though, and Alike faces a ton of it from her mom.


Despite her mom loving her, she is fully ready to use violence, manipulation, religion, and abuse to try to force Alike to be something they're not. Sadly, there's no compromising with someone like that. They demand to control things beyond anyone's control.


The film is good, but it does get hung up a little on day to day drama, a short romance, and various monologues. I guess it's all part of her story, but none of it seems as meaningful as her homelife.


I give it a 👍.

[Citizen Rules]

A big thanks:) to stillmellow for finishing.

[ueno_station54]

https://midb.mk/sites/default/files/styles/original/public/background/before-the-rain-1994-1.jpg?itok=OmwFjSLu
Before the Rain (Milcho Manchevski, 1994)

From frame one this suffers from what I can only describe as "The 90's Stink", which if I was more learned I'm sure I'd be able to put better words to it but whether its the lens, the film, the music, maybe even the font in the credits, idk but it has the stink and it immediately makes me recoil. For the record, At Play in the Fields of the Lord had this too but for some reason it hit me way harder here even though its a much stronger film visually. I say that but despite generally looking quite good there isn't really any standout images either. This is definitely more of a message film than anything else and it dedicates the entire runtime to making its statement but the statement feels rather limp and bland to me and honestly I spent most of the runtime waiting for it to end. Its message about violence being everywhere and how violence begets violence just feels really quaint in the current year. I think a part of the problem came from factors outside of the film itself unfortunately as I think the new HoF format limited when I was able to watch this and I really don't think I was in the right mood. So this film maybe got screwed over a bit but I also still think there's a ceiling to how much I could have potentially enjoyed it. Sorry, this just wasn't for me.

[Citizen Rules]

Thanks Ueno for joining and finishing, much appreciated:)... I think the new HoF format limited when I was able to watch this and I really don't think I was in the right mood. So this film maybe got screwed over a bit but I also still think there's a ceiling to how much I could have potentially enjoyed it...I just want to say to all of the HoF members: that people could watch the movies out of order or when they wanted, as I did post the full list of movie noms at the very start of the HoF on Jan 1st here (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2522706#post2522706).

I only asked that people didn't post their reviews until the movie was listed as movie of the week. I know John Constantine watched most of the noms back in January, which is fine.

But even if everyone did wait until the movies were posted to watch them, that gave a total of 22 days to watch Before the Rain. It was posted on 3-24 and the deadline was 4-14...22 totally days. It's really not the fault of the HoF format, just saying.

[MovieGal]

Citizen Rules probably thought i was going to bail out, its why it was last.

This will teach you!

Just kidding CR!

[rauldc14]

Yeah, a part of me felt compelled to "wait" until it was posted to watch it but we really didn't have to do that, which I'll remember next time!

Anyways, just The Good The Bad and The Weird left for me

[Citizen Rules]

@Citizen Rules (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=84637) probably thought i was going to bail out, its why it was last.

This will teach you!

Just kidding CR!Ha:D Actually your movie was scheduled to be third from last, but pants dropped and JJ's nom is still up in the air.

[Takoma11]

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcriterion-production.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fcarousel-files%2F3041ffaf9ee561973c1d5f5be154eb12.jpeg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=634f1b264eaa84190b74f47ed0529a996d9f95ec7b0fb0454ef6f153f7c23c49

Pariah, 2011

Li (Adepero Oduye) is a high school student navigating complicated questions of gender identity and sexuality. Along with her pal Laura (Pernell Walker), Li flirts with women at a local strip club, before donning more feminine clothing to satisfy her religious, controlling mother, Audrey (Kim Wayans). But when Li meets the cute and confident Bina (Aasha Davis), she begins to get more assertive about following her own desires and needs.

This is a moving, nuanced portrait of a young person at a personal crossroads, slightly oversaturated with plot elements.

I have had this film on my watchlist for years, and I was delighted to finally check it out. Despite having been made over a decade ago, the struggles and bigotry portrayed in this film are still depressingly common and relevant today.

When a young person is contending with gender identity and questions of sexuality, there are three different layers they have to deal with: the external (society/strangers), the intimate (family/friends), and the internal (their own body/mind). This film is mainly focused on the family/friends piece, and that sets it apart from most films from the 2000s/2010s dealing with similar topics.

A painful reality that this movie betrays is that much of the violence and hatred that young queer people experience is at the hands of people they know, and often their own family. While we see that Li, as a visibly trans-masc person, is at higher risk for harassment and possible violence from bigoted strangers, it is only at the hands of her own family that she is physically harmed, and the hateful words cut so much deeper.

One of the hardest sequences to watch involves a blowout fight between Audrey and Li’s father, Arthur (Charles Parnell). Trying to pull on emotional leverage to punish Arthur for the time he spends away from the home, Audrey screams that Li is “turning into a man”, and then throws several slurs at her own daughter. Worst of all, she is positioning her own child’s identity as an illness resulting from her father’s neglect. If she just had better parenting, it’s implied, she wouldn’t be queer or trans.

The family dynamics in the film are very interesting. While Audrey is more aggressive in policing Li’s appearance and behavior, her father seems to mostly want to look the other way. At times, this gets into some pretty heavy denial on his part (he’s the character who trots out the old “going through a phase” line). Li has something of an ally in her little sister, Sharonda (Sahra Mellesse), who despite some sisterly bantering, does shield her sister a bit from their mother’s wrath.

The movie also does a very good job in evoking a very real sense of location and community. There are distinct sections of the neighborhood, and yet there are overlaps: Arthur investigates crimes in the area where Li goes to a gay bar; Li’s friend makes a delivery to a local liquor store where some of Arthur’s friends hang out.

Finally, I was delighted to see the film explore a hilarious truth: queer teens get to have a lot of sexy times at “sleepovers” because they are not as supervised. Some of my friends just had a conversation about how amazed they are that their parents let them have their girlfriends stay overnight with basically no supervision, despite the fact that they’d have never let a boyfriend even stay the night at all, much less in the same room.

My only real complaint with this one was that it seemed determined to put way too many subplots into the script. Li’s struggles with her family on their own make for plenty of drama, suspense, and plot. I liked the subplot about her romance with Bina, and how that unintentionally drives a wedge between Li and Laura. I didn’t necessarily mind a few glimpses at Laura’s life. Laura seems more together on the outside, but she has been exiled by her own family and is struggling to find a path for herself. But then the movie piles on scenes of Li’s mom at work, implications that Arthur is having an affair, and it starts to feel a little overful. I guess I appreciate that the movie doesn’t turn Audrey into a one-dimensional monster, but taking runtime to show us that she’s kind of awkward at work and feels left out didn’t really add much to the story for me. Likewise Arthur’s potential infidelity.

I’d also be interested to talk to a trans-masc person about the portrayal in this film. The movie frequently conflates being trans-masc with being a lesbian, but those are different things. I had mixed feelings about the movie and the characters equating being a lesbian with being “butch”. We get a few glimpses of femme lesbian women at the bar that Li and Laura frequent, but that’s it. At the same time, I appreciate that the movie didn’t take a time out to have characters give expository monologues about sexuality or gender identity. A poem Li writes about a butterfly’s metamorphosis is a nice glimpse into her thoughts. I just felt that the movie could have used more than that.

Very glad to have finally seen this one!

4

[jiraffejustin]

The Good, the Bad, The Weird

I am guessing that everyone who likes this movie uses the word fun to describe it somewhere, but I guess if you are describing a cheetah you are going to call it fast. I don't see a new wheel anywhere in this one, but the old wheels are rolling just fine. A bunch of cool action set pieces and stunts. Three solid main characters with clear motivations that give us all the drive we need to reach the finish line. There is a cap on a film like this for me, but with the lower ceiling there is also a raised floor.

[Takoma11]

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpics.filmaffinity.com%2FBefore_the_Rain-371934198-large.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=93e69a1f32afb1178a8a361c4628eb5ef3262c3cdd5b226976554d56a3e43c9c

Before the Rain, 1994

Three stories set in, or related to, Macedonia show an unending cycle of violence. A young monk (Gregiore Colin) decides to hide a young woman he finds sheltering in his room; a photo editor in London must hash out a delicate situation with her husband; a war photographer (Rade Serbedzija), native to Macedonia, returns home to find that existing tensions have only magnified in his absence.

An outstanding use of setting and a visually engaging filming style make for two very strong segments.

There was a period from the mid-90s to the early/mid-2000s when so many movies were obsessed with the whole “multiple stories, but they’re all connected!” thing. At first, this film seems like it’s just going back to that same well, but instead it takes the notion of connection, of cause-and-effect, and twists it into something more surreal and surprising.

As the sequences that start and close the circle, so to speak, the first and last segments of the movie are by far the strongest. I think it’s no coincidence that these are the sequences that take place in Macedonia, and in the intimate circumstances of the conflict.

At all levels of community, we see the way that the conflict has poisoned relationships between neighbors, colleagues, and families. The conflict is rooted in tensions between the Christian and Muslim groups, but it fractures out into violent disagreements about how to respond to events.

Films taking place during such conflicts often get a lot of mileage out of showing us the horror of what normal life looks like in such circumstances, and this movie is no exception. Everyone is accustomed to the sound of gunfire. Children think nothing of having guns pointed at them, or pointing them at others. Characters frequently acknowledge that things are on a wire, and that even minor events could lead to an eruption of violence, yet they do little to avoid or mitigate such events.

I loved the use of the setting of this movie. The countryside is absolutely gorgeous, and it only seems to punctuate the tragedy of bullets flying through such beautiful landscapes. The young monk Kiril, the most innocent character we meet, begins the film tending a small vegetable garden on a hillside. But the human cruelty around him never ceases to intrude, and just a little ways away, a group of children brutally torture an animal with fire and explosions.

My only real issue with this film was the middle section, which I thought was very weak compared to the first and third. Just the act of moving the story to London is a bit jarring. There is something to be said for the way that people in countries like England or the US see images from world conflicts and it’s with more of an aesthetic eye than one of humanism, but then much of the action centers on the photo editor and a dinner out with her husband, and it feels like a waste of runtime. In wanting to show the cycle of violence and the way it can permeate all reaches of the world, I didn’t really click with the framing of “Well, you might be in the wrong place at the wrong time when these people throw down.” As terrible as it sounds, I just couldn’t get emotionally invested in either the editor or her husband. And maybe it was intentional, but I thought that the London sequences actually looked bad----sort of muddy and underlit and also very blue.

I did quite enjoy the sections that bookend the film, and I’m glad to have checked it out.

3.5+

[jiraffejustin]

Pariah

This is a nice, contained film that might lack the scope to standout for me. There nothing bad about the film, it probably hits a little harder for people who felt like they had to hide themselves from their parents, but is still universal enough in that "growing up is weird" to hit for me, a person who, on the surface level, would not appear to be able to relate to it in any obvious way. The actors did well in their parts. Visually the film is just okay, but anything flashier would have probably undermined the content.

[jiraffejustin]

The People's Joker

I am pretty clearly not the target audience for this film and I don't love it. That's okay though. I do appreciate that it's as creative as it is and going for something that not a lot of other films do. It has a punk attitude to it despite also trying to show a little heart. The novelty of the style wore thin for me as the film went on, but I am happy to have seen it.

[rauldc14]

The Good, The Bad and The Weird

https://images.ctfassets.net/m3qyzuwrf176/312SSOIckMU9OmBnxUFOiD/c6be77ac37abd8783df7c17961e9b933/Dec15_GOOD_BAD_WEIRD_Song1__1_banner.jpg?fm=webp&w=2000

For those who like this I'm guessing they would use the words mindless entertainment. To me it just feels like it gives off Tarantino vibes, often trying to use style over substance to win over its viewers. And like Tarantino's that I really dislike, there isn't a character to be had here that really interests me. Sure, the action can be fun at times, but it gets old quickly for me. And after awhile you just don't give a damn about the treasure map at all. The story itself is a bit weak for me too. There's some good looking scenes though. The end also fails for me, obviously it's not going to live up to The Good The Bad and The Ugly hype but there really doesn't seem to be much leading up to it to get me excited either. Overall, it's a film that just isn't my cup of tea.

2.5-

[jiraffejustin]

I just got home from work. I have to finish two more movies, I can have them done before the sun next rises. Hopefully that's not too late.

[Citizen Rules]

I just got home from work. I have to finish two more movies, I can have them done before the sun next rises. Hopefully that's not too late.Before the morning of the 15th will work. I'm on the west coast by the way.

[jiraffejustin]

Before the Rain

The first chapter of this film was pretty great so when it went to chapter two, I wasn't feeling it until the dinner scene. I was worried that the film that I was getting into was going to turn into a boring talk-fest when I thought I was getting something much more interesting and visually exciting with landscapes that I don't usually get to see in film. Luckily the dinner scene played out like it did and chapter three starts and we are back at it. I may have misinterpreted the film at a certain point, but if I didn't and the ending plays into the line scrawled on the wall "time never dies, the circle is not round" then I like it even more.

[jiraffejustin]

At Play in the Fields of the Lord

I started this and I was trying to watch it, but it was late in the evening and I had worked all day and watched a two hour movie (see above) before it. I kept dozing off and waking up in later parts and trying to rewind to find where I last remembered watching it. This isn't a fair way to judge a film, so if CR counts this as me being caught up enough to keep my nom in, I'll watch this again, this time proper. Tom Berenger really goes for it with his look in this movie, I remember that being something that tickled me. I love the setting, the rain forest is always going to bump a film up half a star for me. Makes me want to watch Embrace of the Serpent again.

[Citizen Rules]

Good news fellow HoFers...JJ caught up and so there's one more nom to watch and it's a good one! Yes it's 4 hours long so I will add 2 weeks to watch it, please don't wait to the last moment to watch it because the deadline to watch the movie and have all of your ballots sent in is April 29th deadline. *If you've already sent your ballot in you'll have to resend it to me.

The Movie for Week 13 is:
107113
Gone with the Wind (1939)
Director Victor Fleming

Deadline to watch and finish the HoF is April 29th

@MovieGal (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=80538) @jiraffejustin (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=76459) @John W Constantine (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=109412) @PHOENIX74 (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=112080)
@rauldc14 (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=60169) @edarsenal (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=50536) @Torgo (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=109334) @Takoma11 (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=107735) @ueno_station54 (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=111569) @stillmellow (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=124844) @cricket (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=68505) @TheManBehindTheCurtain

[Citizen Rules]

At Play in the Fields of the Lord

I started this and I was trying to watch it, but it was late in the evening and I had worked all day and watched a two hour movie (see above) before it. I kept dozing off and waking up in later parts and trying to rewind to find where I last remembered watching it. This isn't a fair way to judge a film, so if CR counts this as me being caught up enough to keep my nom in, I'll watch this again, this time proper...I'll count that as catching up, thanks. So I added your nom and gave everyone 2 weeks to finish the HoF. I won't link your review At Play in the Fields of the Lord, I'll wait for you to rewatch it and post a review of it.

[rauldc14]

6 movies in 4 months then 6 movies in 6 days. Makes sense.

[jiraffejustin]

6 movies in 4 months then 6 movies in 6 days. Makes sense.

What can I say, I play better in the 4th quarter

[cricket]

6 movies in 4 months then 6 movies in 6 days. Makes sense.

That's how I've been rolling for a while myself. If I'm fighting with wifey I go in the other room, if I'm not we're watching a show together.

[ueno_station54]

thankful for the bonus week. won't have a chance to watch it 'til next week.

[stillmellow]

I killed some time looking at the past Hall of Fame winners, and now I'm angry that Her (2013) beat Ronin (1998).

[Citizen Rules]

I killed some time looking at the past Hall of Fame winners, and now I'm angry that Her (2013) beat Ronin (1998).There were some really good noms back in the 11th HoF...ah, the good old days.

[Citizen Rules]

@jiraffejustin (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=76459) Can you please post a quick review of Gone With the Wind and then send in your voting ballot asap...I can't have you sending in your ballot on the very last day of the deadline April 29th, as other members are waiting to see if you finish before they will watch GWTW and then they won't have any time to watch your nom if you wait to the very end.

You don't have to rewatch At Play In the Fields of the Lord I know you said you were sleepy, hell it ain't going to win anyway so it doesn't matter and your review is more than good enough. I just now linked it on the first page.

[stillmellow]

Gone with the Wind

This is a difficult one to rate. It might be easier if I broke it down into sections:

1. Visually: is an absolutely gorgeous film, with amazing costumes and Cinematography. Some of the best I've ever seen, especially considering there weren't any special effects. A+, no question.

2. Story: its a serviceable epic drama/romance, extending over many years, several of which sees the ruin and regrowth of Scarlett's estate and life. It's decent, but at almost 4 hours, my empathy for the characters begins to dwindle. It's simply too long. This story could've easily been told in 2.5 hours. "C"

3. Setting/Message: THIS is where the Movie falls off. It's one thing to forgive an old movie for outdated social sensibilities... but that's really all the movie is. It's a film about how beautiful and wonderful the Confederate South was until the Union troops arrived.

The way the Union troops are portrayed, they might as well be invading Orcs from the Lord of the Rings. Hell, it even portrays Union Troops 'freeing slaves' as if they're human traffickers, kidnapping people. In the movie they say the Union was forcing the freed slaves to fight as soldiers, something that never happened. Many free black men fought on the Union's side, but freed slaves weren't forced into military service.

I can forgive outdated sensibilities, but this drifts into straight up propaganda. "F"

4. Acting: Scarlett is a bit childish and overly dramatic for my taste. I'd know it'd be a short movie otherwise, but for the most of the film she seems absolutely determined to not be happy. Rhett is more interesting, but sadly rapey. That I'm willing to allow for being "of it's time". It still diminishes it as a love story, in my eyes.

The strongest performances come from the side characters, especially Hattie McDaniel as Mammy.

"C+"

So where does that leave us? Well, if we average everything out, it leaves us around C or C+

At an almost 4 hour runtime, I'm rounding down to "C"

[stillmellow]

First to finish! So that means my votes count double, right?

[Citizen Rules]

First to finish! So that means my votes count double, right?
Sure, why not:D

[stillmellow]

Sure, why not:D


I knew you were cool! 😎

[Takoma11]

Just an FYI, I have watched Gone with the Wind, but might just need a few days to get a review written. Fiddle-dee-dee!

[MovieGal]

When i watch it, it will takee multiple days.

[TheManBehindTheCurtain]

I watched back in January when it was first announced, with family, taking plenty of notes. It's taken several months to find the right tone. Final proofing, and releasing soon ...

[stillmellow]

When i watch it, it will takee multiple days.


Yeah, I watched it over a period of 3 days.

[TheManBehindTheCurtain]

Gone With the Wind (1939)
Director: Victor Fleming
Key cast: Vivien Leigh, Clark Gable, Hattie McDaniel, Leslie Howard, Olivia de Havilland

3

107211

The year 1939 is frequently lauded as the greatest in Hollywood history. The best picture Oscar nominees are uniformly classics: Dark Victory; Goodbye, Mr. Chips; Love Affair; Mr. Smith Goes to Washington; Ninotchka; Of Mice and Men; Stagecoach; The Wizard of Oz; Wuthering Heights.

And then there was Gone with the Wind. Nominated for 13 awards, winning eight.

This lavish romance is the tale of two larger-than-life characters. Scarlett O’Hara (Vivien Leigh) is a devastatingly beautiful but vain and self-centered young girl. Rhett Butler (Clark Gable) is a devastatingly handsome but rakish and self-centered older man. They are made for each other. We can see it. Rhett can see it. Scarlett can’t. This is the romantic locus around which director Victor Fleming spins a four-hour epic that insists on slavish fidelity with Margaret Mitchell’s 1936 bestselling novel.

The first images place us in the pre-Civil War South: slaves chopping cotton. The intro declares it “a land of Cavaliers and Cotton Fields” where “Gallantry took its last bow.” We are swept into this world of barbeques and balls. Young women fuss with their gowns and gossip about handsome suitors. The drawing rooms are filled with young men eager for the battle to commence so they can “teach the Yankees a lesson” and return home in a few weeks.

Scarlett believes herself tragically and ever-lastingly in love with the scion of a neighboring plantation, Ashley Wilkes (Leslie Howard), pursuing him even as he’s announcing his engagement to cousin Melanie Hamilton (Olivia de Havilland). Ashley heads off to war, and Scarlett and Melanie are thrown together to find their way through. Rhett weaves in and out of their narrative, letting Scarlet know of his affection, but unwilling to marry. As the war ends and Scarlett assumes the role of family leader, Rhett decides his only way to win her is to marry and provide the financial stability she craves. Their short-lived marital bliss is shattered by an unimaginable tragedy. Will they survive it?

Director Victor Fleming’s Gone with the Wind is undeniably a masterpiece, replete with iconic images and scenes. Dapper Rhett, leering at teenage Scarlett from the bottom of a staircase. Scarlett navigating the Atlanta courtyard filled with Confederate dead and wounded. Scarlett raising a defiant fist against a setting sun, declaring “I will never be hungry again!” Rhett sweeping Charlotte into his arms and disappearing with her into the dark at the top of a staircase. Rhett uttering that famous closer, “Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn,” before fading into the mist. And Scarlett’s equally famous concluding words, “After all, tomorrow is another day.”

The acting awards were undeniably earned by Vivien Leigh as best actress and Hattie McDaniel as best supporting actress for her role as Mammy, the obsessively devoted slave and nanny to Scarlett. (McDaniel was the first African American to win an acting Oscar, and one of only two African American women to win for acting in the 20th Century, Whoopi Goldberg being the other a half-century later in 1990.) I have not seen Robert Donat in Goodbye, Mr. Chips, but it must have been a remarkable effort to have denied Gable a best actor nod. GWTW also earned recognition for direction, screenplay, cinematography, art direction, and editing. (But its memorable score lost out to The Wizard of Oz.)

I’ll grant Gone with the Wind points for its ambitious production values and superb acting. But the story leaves me cold and frequently angry on multiple counts.

I find no redeeming value in the core protagonists, who undergo little meaningful character arc. Scarlett in particular may have taken command of her fate by the final frame, but she remains as teeth-grindingly manipulative, vain, and deluded as she was four hours previously. Rhett is no hero, joining the cause only when it is beyond hope, and, though damaged by personal loss, evokes no sympathy when his fragile ego is wounded a final time.

The year 1939 was also an era when segregation was still enforced by law in the South and practiced extensively throughout the States. Hattie McDaniel was prohibited from entering the segregated Atlanta theater where GWTW debuted. She was initially banished from the Academy Awards ceremony as well until producer David O. Selznick reportedly called in a favor. She and her escort were seated separately at the back, not allowed to join the white cast members. Her acceptance speech was dignified and restrained.

Can we excuse GWTW as a “product of its time”? No. Because of what else we know about the year 1939: It was as far removed from 1865 as we are today from World War II. How would you react to a movie set in Germany in 1945 that referred to the Axis powers only as “invaders”?

One cannot fault the actors for showing up for such a payday. The genuine fault lies with a Hollywood system whose goal of cashing in on the popularity of a mammoth bestseller led it to embrace all of the original novel’s faults and, over a tedious four-hour run time, admit virtually no concessions to moral truths.

No one should expect this yarn to be completely reworked as a tale of contrition; that would be just as dishonest. But could it not have been so relentless in its whitewashing of the past? One could excuse some lamentations about “a civilization gone with the wind” if it were seasoned with some acknowledgment of regret and guilt.

What, for example, should we make of Ashley’s observation that, though the war forced him to free his slaves, he would have done so anyway after his father died. The filmmakers were willing to overlook the original novel’s references to the Klan, but in this speech they did not see an opportunity to introduce the slightest tinge of remorse or acknowledgment of moral culpability. His father’s pride was more important than the freedom of the humans he owned. Or, after the war ends, could we not, among the tedious hours of Scarlett’s whining, have eavesdropped on her for just a few minutes addressing her beloved Mammy with genuine thanks? Could we not know even whether the former slaves are now working for a wage or just for room and board? Something. Anything.

But all this makes GWTW required viewing for cinephiles, as it provides a perfect scale upon which to weigh one’s own capacity for balancing art and message. From the lavish parties at Tara and the spine-tingling escape from the Atlanta inferno, to the offensive stereotypes and anemic apologetics. For every viewer there is an opinion, from those who place it in their top 10 as the pinnacle of Hollywood showmanship, to those who view it as the damaged product of a profit-driven Hollywood system that stared directly into the face of evil … and looked the other way.

[Citizen Rules]

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fhookedonhouses.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F03%2FGone-with-the-Wind-Scarlett-in-front-of-Tara.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=23ebb305d17f2b10d54571dbbfff385ccdce9ce109006a09b31cff38200a0f88
Gone With the Wind (1939)
Dir. Victor Fleming

The glamorized lifestyles of rich slave owners.


If you don't like Gone With the Wind, don't blame Victor Fleming, he made a perfectly filmed version of Margaret Mitchell's smash hit novel...But you can blame the old south for creating a slave based economy where a very few white southerns grew filthy rich on the backs of their slaves. People criticize GWTW for romanticizing the pre Civil War era lifestyle of the elite plantation owners like we see at Tara or Twelve Oaks, but this is their story, a story of people who were swept away with the tides of the civil war. You might hate these people and what they stood for but this is the way they lived and viewed their world from high on their pedestals.

This was only my second viewing of Gone With the Wind, I'd seen it once some twenty years ago. I'm a huge fan of Viven Leigh and this is considered her crowning achievement. She's radiant here as a southern belle who raises her eyebrow and men come a runnin'. But there's so much story in the novel that even at four hours the movie has to abbreviate many of the scenes, leaving a feeling of a mere outline of events that leaves me wishing there was more.

Also this time around I didn't feel Scarlett had much of a character arc. She neither grew as a person after the Civil War when she had to work with her hands in the soil of Tara just to survive. Nor did her selfish ways result in her loosing everything and being left utterly alone. Instead after Rhett leaves she still has vast wealth, a huge house and is ready to manipulate more people as 'tomorrow is another day'.

I didn't read the novel but I bet Scarlett has more depth to her character than in the film. But I'm not going to hate on the movie just because Scarlett and these rich slave owners aren't model citizens. Hell people love The Godfather...I guess the mafia with their killing and selling narcotics and forcing women into prostitution is all very palatable. It's odd to me how people can be offended by one unpalatable subject and lambast the other.

Gone With the Wind is the greatest achievement during the Golden Age of cinema.
rating_4_5

[jiraffejustin]

@jiraffejustin (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=76459) Can you please post a quick review of Gone With the Wind and then send in your voting ballot asap...I can't have you sending in your ballot on the very last day of the deadline April 29th, as other members are waiting to see if you finish before they will watch GWTW and then they won't have any time to watch your nom if you wait to the very end.

You don't have to rewatch At Play In the Fields of the Lord I know you said you were sleepy, hell it ain't going to win anyway so it doesn't matter and your review is more than good enough. I just now linked it on the first page.

Im at a cabin in the woods right now, I’ll be back in civilization on Monday. I can write my stuff on Monday. I’m going to give your film a proper watch. I’d rather you disqualify me than me not watch the film properly.

[Citizen Rules]

Im at a cabin in the woods right now, I’ll be back in civilization on Monday. I can write my stuff on Monday. I’m going to give your film a proper watch. I’d rather you disqualify me than me not watch the film properly.Monday will be fine.

[jiraffejustin]

Gone with the Wind

A film hall of fame without Gone with the Wind would be like a baseball hall of fame without Babe Ruth. It's a big, beautiful movie that represents the high water mark of American film achievement. There have been better American films after this, but nothing of this scope. It's probably cool not to like this now, both because it's a hip thing to do and also because you can take the moral high ground. I am not much of an activist, I just like good movies. I like Das Boot too. This is the best soap opera of all time and Scarlett has pretty dresses and the set design is fantastic. Just a fantastic achievement.

[rauldc14]

Gone With the Wind

I didn't care for the racial undertones, but loved the end scene. There was a decent pace to the movie for how long it is. The movie feels dated in spots though but that's to be expected. But the two leads did really well and there was good chemistry. I've always enjoyed Gable and Leigh. Love the end dialogue frankly my dear I don't give a damn. But the movie is too long. I'll have to watch it again as there was parts I was in and out of mentally. But it's quite a notable film in cinematic history.

[jiraffejustin]

I am half-way through At Play in the Fields of the Lord and I gotta say, it's much better when you are awake. The jungle is almost always going to boost a film up by at least half a popcorn.

[edarsenal]

I'll take a link for The People's Joker, please and thanks.

[Torgo]

Gone With the Wind - 4

Having spent, well...quite a bit of time in Georgia, I somehow have never seen this movie until now. I'll just say that this is as scandalous around here as saying I've never been to the World of Coke or to a Bulldogs game. Now that I finally have, I'm glad I did because I really enjoyed it. I also appreciate finally learning why the movie is so popular and controversial.

First of all, if this movie did not invent the Hollywood epic, it might as well have. Half the joy of watching this is basking in its grandiosity, which made me understand why it is the biggest moneymaker of all time since it begs to be seen on the big screen. One moment in particular where the camera zooms out on the Tara estate while Gerald O’Hara praises the value of land made my TV seem like it stretched to IMAX proportions. I watched a game show for movie buffs many years ago where someone argued that Vivian Leigh gives the best performance of all time in this, and I can see where he is coming from. If Leigh needed to do anything as Scarlett O'Hara, she had to convince us that the war, her romances, etc. sent her on a trip to hell and back, and she nailed it. What's more interesting to discuss, though, is whether her experiences changed her. As her short-lived marriage to her cousin Melanie's brother, Charles, indicates, Scarlett was just as prone to deception and spite before the war. These tendencies help her succeed, but as we also see in other great movies with similar arcs this one may have inspired like Citizen Kane, The Godfather Part II, etc. a professional rise tends to lead to a personal fall. With that, it is as good a time as any to mention the movie's other dynamo casting move in Gable as Butler. Charming, roguish and essentially Scarlett's mirror, their cursed romance succeeds in challenging the notion that Scarlett changes, and with her foolish pursuit of Ashley, a divide forms between who she wants to be and who she really is. There is more to it than that, though, isn't there? After all, Scarlett O'Hara is not just a legendary character because she is viscous. All the while, we are reminded that in this world run by men, Scarlett believes she must be the way she is not to succeed, but to survive. As the extensive opening credits indicate, there are many players here beyond the doomed couple, some of whom through no fault of their own made me cringe - more on that later - but everyone ends up leaving a lasting impression. Standouts are Howard's annoyingly indecisive Ashley, De Havilland's saintly Melanie and of course McDaniel's voice of reason that is Mammy.

I have not watched many epics, but I have not seen one I have disliked yet, with this being one of the best American ones I've seen. While it is also one of the longest ones I have seen, since it held my interest and nothing in it seems unnecessary, that is not a drawback. That is not to say it does not have any drawbacks: much of the dialogue, especially during Scarlett and Rhett's arguments, seems too on the nose and explanatory as if the writer had little faith in the intended audience members' attention spans. Also, despite taking the movie's age and context into consideration, I still felt bad for McQueen, Brown and Polk for how they had to portray Prissy, Big Sam and Pork respectively. With that said, despite not sharing author Margaret Mitchell's lament that the Civil War happened, I would not make any core changes to the movie, and I am thankful that nobody has done so yet. After all, I doubt I would be drawn to history, literature or movies if they only offered perspectives I agree with. Again, I am glad that I finally checked this movie off my cinematic bucket list, that it exceeded my expectations and that I have another movie to put on my list of ones to see in a theater. I am also glad that I am less likely to be tarred and feathered in my home state now.

[Torgo]

And to think I almost watched the version for senior citizens:

https://youtu.be/GhiOAFE64M4?si=IWnPbyNxivP9jsiT

[ueno_station54]

https://film-grab.com/wp-content/uploads/photo-gallery/08%20(421).jpg?bwg=1547218923
Gone with the Wind (Victor Fleming, 1939)

Ok so just gonna address the elephant in the room, the overtly racist, pro-confederacy messaging of the film made this a complete non-starter from the opening text crawl and there was no way it was ever gonna win me back, though at least its honest and open about just wanting to own slaves and big houses instead crying "states rights" like the modern confederate sympathizers do. This had no chance and honestly I was hoping to be more conflicted about that but I don't think much else of the movie really works for me either. Don't get me wrong, I love a movie about an awful woman but she's just a little too annoying here, though I'll hang most of that on me just not being into the acting of the time. I don't know what the deal is with that accent every actor had in this era but Vivian Leigh just sounds like an overly yippy lapdog for 4 whole hours. Speaking of runtime, this shit went on longer than the actual confederacy did and I intended to watch it in one go but the fact that the first half feels nearly like a complete story (that I hated every second of) only for "INTERMISSION" to follow was just too demoralizing and I watched the second half the following day. The second half has the benefit of getting further and further away from the civil war as it goes thankfully so it gets a little less in your face with its disgusting messaging and is therefor a bit easier to watch. From here its mostly just a story of this terrible woman's life falling apart and looking at just that... its ok I guess? Its paced way too fast (wild to say about a movie this long, it just has too many things happen) and almost none of the dramatic moments land the way they're supposed to. Like, almost every tragic event in the late stages of the film feel like they're shot with comedic timing in mind, its baffling but at least somewhat entertaining. I also don't really know how this was sold as a romantic story because there is just flat out no sizzle at any point and it doesn't help that the one lead is endlessly annoying and the other I find to be rather creepy, which is exceedingly common for romantic male leads of this era, at least from my limited experience. So yeah, its a no for me.

[Takoma11]

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.alternateending.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F01%2Fgonewiththewindbkgd.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=e53971c7d635b332c3ac116b7ccde17f0420ff0eac3204432f6663d65c12656b

Gone with the Wind, 1939

Spoiled rich girl Scarlett O’Hara (Vivien Leigh) is madly in love with Ashley (Leslie Howard), who ends up engaged to the saintly Melanie (Olivia de Havilland). Unable to let her infatuation go, Scarlett carries her wounded pride through the trials and tribulations of the Civil War, and falls into a volatile affair with the mercurial Rhett (Clark Gable).

Epic visuals are the gorgeous frosting on a rotten cake of a story.

There is something to be said for scope and scale and the power of staging. I think that a sequence of Scarlett walking out into a street where thousands of men, wounded and dying, lay in the dirt. Likewise, I was very taken with a few scenes where there were overt stylistic choices, like a conversation between Melanie and Scarlett in a military hospital, filmed entirely with the women’s shadows projected large on the wall behind them.

But . . . that’s about all I can say for this film. I did watch it in one go (and I guess can give a slightly backhanded compliment that the four hours didn’t feel as long as I thought they would?), and not in one single moment did I feel myself click with anyone on screen.

The story of a self-centered promiscuous racist horse-murderer wooing a . . . . self-centered promiscuous racist horse-murderer is a hard sell for me, and every subplot centering on keeping a whole race of people in captivity left virtually nothing to gel with emotionally. Characters don’t have to be likable to be compelling, but they do have to grow or change. And yet every character in this movie stays fundamentally exactly the same, with only external forces causing them brief deviations from their norm.

It’s one thing for the characters to be tone-deaf about slavery and the subjugation of the Black people around them. That’s, you know, probably historically accurate. But the movie itself is equally tone-deaf and I found that more and more grating as it tried to frame character moments from that perspective. When Rhett declares that he’ll join and fight for the Confederacy because he can’t help but side with the underdog . . . while standing mere feet from enslaved people. Yikes. And while the movie seems to want us to be appalled at Prissy (Butterfly McQueen) lying about her midwife credentials and taking her sweet time while Melanie struggles with childbirth, I was utterly delighted. Meanwhile, there is only one thing that Black characters do to merit any kind of respect: take care of white people. Hattie McDaniel has a larger than life personality and I adored McQueen’s Prissy, but like all the other characters, they do not grow. (And the movie seems to imply that once freed Mammy and others just . . . stick around because they prefer the status quo because every enslaved person in this film absolutely loves their lives!).

Ultimately, I wasn’t sure what I was supposed to get out of this film. It felt like big set pieces dancing around a fundamentally dull story about two people whose egos and rich-kid self-centeredness kept them from happiness. And when one of those people says things like “I’ll sell you South, I will!” and the other says to a grown woman “Blow your nose like a good little girl”, I’m not aboard that train.

I suppose from a cinematic completionist point of view, I’m glad to have checked this off my list.

2.5

[MovieGal]

107461
Gone With The Wind
(1939)

First I want to say, this isnt my type of movie. Its not a bad film. Its not something I would normally watch from the 1930s.

It should be titled "The Dramatic Life and Loves of Scarlett O'Hara", because thats what it was. It was about the family, her beloved plantation and the men she used.

I understand in the time period this film takes place, there are things that are acceptable then but not by today's standards.

I found her character as well as many other characters annoying and overly acted.

I will leave my review as this.

Adieu

[jiraffejustin]

At Play in the Fields of the Lord

Pretty solid experience. I've said this several times already, but the jungle works for me. Especially when they are on the river. The acting in this one is not bad, but also pretty limited. I like John Lithgow, but I can't always buy him in serious roles. I think he did a fine job in this one, but still he was a little off. Kathy Bates is pretty good, she went from the most annoying character (other than Woflie) to the most sympathetic. I could have done with less little kid peepees. Tom Waits was annoying. Tom Berenger doesn't really have the chops for such a big role in a film, but he does have a strong physical presence. Uyuyu getting Martin was pretty funny at the end because I didn't see it coming. Not a perfect film, but I am glad to have seen it.