I hate Israel so much

[SPIDEI2_MAN__]

Its unbelievable how cruel they are. They are actually using chainsaws to cut down whole olive farms as a way of making the palestinians leave this peice of land they want to build a wall in. Just imagine the Israeli army coming to your house kicking you out and 10,000 other citizens, NOT giving you an alternate place to live, AND destroying your crops. And what do they want to do with that land??? They want to build a WALL that surrounds the palestinians..if you still don't get it....its like this: GIVE US YOUR LAND NOW YOU PALESTINIANS SO WE CAN BUILD A WALL ON IT AND KEEP YOU INSIDE.

Its a Prison.

Those Israeli pigs...

[The Silver Bullet]

Uh...

[SPIDEI2_MAN__]

Uh...
What?

[Caitlyn]

There is a difference between a post inviting a discussion and a post inviting trouble… this post is the latter and I am thinking seriously about locking it down or deleting it.

[Yoda]

I gave you a second chance to be polite in your political contentions. You assured me you would. You've now broken that assurance, and have thus been banned again.

The situation between Israel and Palestine is a complicated one. Even if we were all to agree that Israel was doing unreasonable things, it would still not justify the kind of comments you have repeatedly made about the Israelis as a whole, or at those who have defended them.

On a less objective note, the mere fact that you cannot contain your anger should serve a signal to you that you are not being fair and objective in your judgements about the situation. You appear far too emotionally involved in the conflict to give a fair account of it. Right or wrong, the attitude you bring to these discussions will only hurt your case in the long run.

That's all.

[The Silver Bullet]

I doth hatein theyn politik!

[Sedai]

Wanted to chime in here. This may be none of my business, as I don't know the history with SpideRman, but I took his thread as an expession of his feelings about a political issue. Although I couldn't disagree more with his post, I saw it as a general statement with no intent as a personal attack. I mean, I am of the mind that any person should be able to state their opinion about any issue, even prejudical hatred, as long as it isn't meant as a direct attack on a person. I will think, and state, that I consider the person a bigoted, racist jerk, but I feel that is their choice to make.

I also realize that movieforums.com might not be the correct forum for these discussions, so maybe a banning was necessary, but my question is:

Is this post ban worthy, or was it just the straw that broke the camels back? For me, I would be fine with adding members to my ignore list is they are posting stuff like this, rather than have someone decide if content if right for me or not. Of course this is Chris's site, and if his rule is "Post racist bull****, and you will be banned", then ban his ass, as he broke the rules. And again, I know this kid was on rocky ground already, and if he has been a troublemaker, and deserves to get booted, so be it.

Just my stinky opinion.

_S

[LordSlaytan]

I really like what you've said here Sedai; it makes a lot of sense. Yet, what if he had only posted this comment in order to cause an argument? Given the fact that he has posted inflammatory remarks in the past and has also attacked a number of posters without provocation, maybe Chris is in the right. It does seem like a standard gripe and not a personal attack, but I see a familiar pattern that would have probably arisen by the creation of this thread, and the people that would have responded. Perhaps the lot of us just ignoring it would have been the best route, but apparently, it’s too late for that.

[Yoda]

Your opinion is welcome, Sedai. I'll attempt to explain my rationale a bit further.

As you've already gathered, this member did have a bit of a history. The first thing I can remember him doing is posting a thread about the war in Iraq (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=3958). Right from the start, he stated his political opinions in extreme ways. For example: "I think Bush is a tyranical Idiot" and "Awww sonny is trying to finish what daddy started..how cute...MoroN."

He was not, however, met with a banning, and I'm not even sure that I gave him any kind of warning, either. But he was met with a bit of disagreement, to which he did not respond. Instead, he disappeared for about a year, then came back and bragged (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showpost.php?p=143223&postcount=108):

"However, I stand today knowing I was right 1 year ago.

Iraq has NO weapons of mass destruction. Saddam was NEVER funding terrorists, and bush will get voted out of office. I can't believe I saw this coming a year ago."I responded and pointed out that none of the things he said in his first post had been proven right, and that he made no such predictions. To the contrary, a sentence in his original post ("I mean the U.S says that they are getting rid of Iraq's weapons........of mass destruction. OK. thats fine but what about Israel..they have alot of nuclear bombs.") implies that he, too, though Iraq had WMDs.

But he merely continued to insist that he had been proven right, and when asked what he had been proven right about, he responded with "Everything (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showpost.php?p=143715&postcount=116)." We went back and forth, and at one point he even denied that the Israeli War of Independence (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showpost.php?p=148555&postcount=192) even took place. When confronted with evidence, and a demand (though not an ultimatum) that he start producing evidence to support his claims, he responded only with this:

"You know sometimes I realize that you are a bigger terrorist than Israel itself. You must be jewish."This, clearly, was beyond the pale. But even then, he was given a chance to retract the statement and go on posting. He refused, and was banned. We talked on AOL Instant Messenger, and he explained that Israel was a sensitive subject for him, so I agreed to give him yet another chance. He assured me he would behave himself.

Then, this thread came along. In and of itself, it's not worthy of a banning...but neither was his thread about Iraq. The two original posts have lots of similiarities, though. They were both clearly written by someone who does not have a disagreement...he has a hatred, and past attempts to extract any sort of reasonable discourse out of him have only resulted in more spite and immaturity.

Cait put it as well as anyone: this post is not about debate, it's about stirring up trouble. I tried to explain this to him last night, using the analogy of abortion: someone is welcome to start a thread called "Why I Am Not Pro-Choice," but if they start a thread called "Why I Am Not a Baby Murderer," I'd have to think twice about allowing it.

There's a certain manner of expressing yourself that is designed to incite trouble and spark anger, rather than discussion. He fails to realize this, and has made numerous accusations that he's being banned simply for "hating a country." In reality, he's being banned for his failure to express his hatred in a civil manner, and his demonstrated inability to control his emotions when anyone dares to dissent.

Whether this convinces you or not, that sums up the reasoning behind my decision to ban him a second time.

[firegod]

Your opinion is welcome, Sedai. I'll attempt to explain my rationale a bit further.

As you've already gathered, this member did have a bit of a history. The first thing I can remember him doing is posting a thread about the war in Iraq (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=3958). Right from the start, he stated his political opinions in extreme ways. For example: "I think Bush is a tyranical Idiot" and "Awww sonny is trying to finish what daddy started..how cute...MoroN."

He was not, however, met with a banning, and I'm not even sure that I gave him any kind of warning, either. But he was met with a bit of disagreement, to which he did not respond. Instead, he disappeared for about a year, then came back and bragged (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showpost.php?p=143223&postcount=108):

I responded and pointed out that none of the things he said in his first post had been proven right, and that he made no such predictions. To the contrary, a sentence in his original post ("I mean the U.S says that they are getting rid of Iraq's weapons........of mass destruction. OK. thats fine but what about Israel..they have alot of nuclear bombs.") implies that he, too, though Iraq had WMDs.

But he merely continued to insist that he had been proven right, and when asked what he had been proven right about, he responded with "Everything (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showpost.php?p=143715&postcount=116)." We went back and forth, and at one point he even denied that the Israeli War of Independence (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showpost.php?p=148555&postcount=192) even took place. When confronted with evidence, and a demand (though not an ultimatum) that he start producing evidence to support his claims, he responded only with this:

This, clearly, was beyond the pale. But even then, he was given a chance to retract the statement and go on posting. He refused, and was banned. We talked on AOL Instant Messenger, and he explained that Israel was a sensitive subject for him, so I agreed to give him yet another chance. He assured me he would behave himself.

Then, this thread came along. In and of itself, it's not worthy of a banning...but neither was his thread about Iraq. The two original posts have lots of similiarities, though. They were both clearly written by someone who does not have a disagreement...he has a hatred, and past attempts to extract any sort of reasonable discourse out of him have only resulted in more spite and immaturity.

Cait put it as well as anyone: this post is not about debate, it's about stirring up trouble. I tried to explain this to him last night, using the analogy of abortion: someone is welcome to start a thread called "Why I Am Not Pro-Choice," but if they start a thread called "Why I Am Not a Baby Murderer," I'd have to think twice about allowing it.

There's a certain manner of expressing yourself that is designed to incite trouble and spark anger, rather than discussion. He fails to realize this, and has made numerous accusations that he's being banned simply for "hating a country." In reality, he's being banned for his failure to express his hatred in a civil manner, and his demonstrated inability to control his emotions when anyone dares to dissent.

Whether this convinces you or not, that sums up the reasoning behind my decision to ban him a second time.

Makes a lot of sense. I personally wouldn't ever ban anyone if I owned a site, but that's just my own style, and I have a whole lot of respect for the way you have dealt with certain people on MoFo.

[Sedai]

Right on. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I guess it all comes down to what kind of site you want to run. After some thought, I feel the banning was correct, if only to promote healthy, mature debate on this website, as I would want if I owned forum site. Sometimes I jump on the censorship wagon WAY to easily, as it is an issue that bothers me to some extent. I put myself in your shoes for a moment, and I concluded that even though I truely feel that people should be able to feel any way they want about an issue, I would want folks to enjoy posting/reading on my site and have an overall pleasent experience. Hatred, prejudice, and bigotry aren't conducive to this, so I wouldn't tolerate much on my own site either.

Anyway, back to chatting about film ;)

Thanks for the reply and Cheers,

_S

[ItWASanOpinion]

First off, I wanna thank Sedai for at leat trying. I am spiderman on another name and I just want to say one last thing before I leave...
I am not racist, never did I say I AHTE ALL ISRAELIS, reread my original post if u take out the last line "israeli pigs" then there is nothing wrong with it at all......also the Israeli pigs part was referring to those people who did what i talked about in my post....i can dislike anyone if i want...there is no way to say i dislike so and so without hurting someone's feelings..people say things on here that offend me all the time but i dont say anything becasuse its thier opinion....Anyways..

If a person is not allowed to hate a country, then what the hell is free speech all about. If I am not allowed to start a thread detailing the FACTUAL actions of a country followed by my OPINION then what the hell am I allowed to do? I didn't insult anyone here, I hate Israel and its the simple truth, what am I NOT allowed to hate it and its soldiers and government? I've seen many people on this forum say "I hate so and so producer for so and so movie" and they never get banned. But wait I get BANNED (the ultimate punishment) for saying I hate a country? If thats what it takes to voice my opinion then ban away yoda. I WON'T back down from my beliefs. I am not imposing them on anyone either. For gods sakes look at the title of this thread...I clearly noted exactly what this thread was going to be about and I was expecting people to A.) Disgaree or B.) Agree.

This site has really become way to bearucratic for me, you can't just ban someone because they hate Israel and everything it stand for. If this is what it takes for me to say I HATE ISRAEL then so be it. And since I am banned for life anyways, let me also go on record and say Yoda is an ******* for banning me for something so stupid. This whole forum is dying down. It gets so boring which is why i only visit like once every 3 weeks, because through all the bull**** you might get something good. I'll continue to be present in other forums, I'll conitnue to be treated democratically, and I'll continue to hate israel whether or not that suites you. OPINIONS INSULT PEOPLE If you havn't learned this lesson, Yoda..too bad you never will. I'll come back here a few years from now and I'll see a closed down site. You are losing members quick due to all the red tape. Let me hate Israel all I want, if the majority of people here disgaree with me ...then they can post a reply (btw i didnt say anything questionable in my orginal post..it was something that happened)..
Good bye.

[Yoda]

First off, I wanna thank Sedai for at leat trying. I am spiderman on another name and I just want to say one last thing before I leave...
I am not racist, never did I say I AHTE ALL ISRAELIS, reread my original post if u take out the last line "israeli pigs" then there is nothing wrong with it at all......also the Israeli pigs part was referring to those people who did what i talked about in my post....i can dislike anyone if i want...there is no way to say i dislike so and so without hurting someone's feelings..people say things on here that offend me all the time but i dont say anything becasuse its thier opinion....Anyways..It doesn't work that way. You can't say something, get in trouble for it, then say "it's okay if you take out the really offensive part." You said it. It was a part of your post, and it indicates a major lack of emotional maturity. No one has been, or ever will be, banned for feeling hatred. But they can be banned for how they express it.


If a person is not allowed to hate a country, then what the hell is free speech all about. If I am not allowed to start a thread detailing the FACTUAL actions of a country followed by my OPINION then what the hell am I allowed to do? I didn't insult anyone here, I hate Israel and its the simple truth, what am I NOT allowed to hate it and its soldiers and government? I've seen many people on this forum say "I hate so and so producer for so and so movie" and they never get banned. But wait I get BANNED (the ultimate punishment) for saying I hate a country? If thats what it takes to voice my opinion then ban away yoda. I WON'T back down from my beliefs. I am not imposing them on anyone either. For gods sakes look at the title of this thread...I clearly noted exactly what this thread was going to be about and I was expecting people to A.) Disgaree or B.) Agree.You don't get banned for saying you hate a country. You get banned for being nothing but hateful, and insulting members when they disagree with you. I'm not going to pretend this is your first thread ever, just because I reinstated you. I'm not going to ignore your entire checkered history as a member here. I know where threads like this go, and I know how you respond when people disagree with your opinions (which you treat an awful lot like facts). I'm not going to sit here and watch it happen again.

By the way: you didn't provide a source. In fact, you've never provided a source for any of your claims about Israel, Iraq, or anything of the sort. But even if you can, your were still out of line.


This site has really become way to bearucratic for me, you can't just ban someone because they hate Israel and everything it stand for. If this is what it takes for me to say I HATE ISRAEL then so be it. And since I am banned for life anyways, let me also go on record and say Yoda is an ******* for banning me for something so stupid. This whole forum is dying down. It gets so boring which is why i only visit like once every 3 weeks, because through all the bull**** you might get something good. I'll continue to be present in other forums, I'll conitnue to be treated democratically, and I'll continue to hate israel whether or not that suites you.Actually, we've been setting new posting records (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=7009) lately. Once again, your anger's effecting your reasoning. This is the same as your denial of verified historical events; it's as if you think you can change reality just by insisting that it isn't so.


OPINIONS INSULT PEOPLE If you havn't learned this lesson, Yoda..too bad you never will. I'll come back here a few years from now and I'll see a closed down site. You are losing members quick due to all the red tape. Let me hate Israel all I want, if the majority of people here disgaree with me ...then they can post a reply (btw i didnt say anything questionable in my orginal post..it was something that happened)..
Good bye.You know what else insults people? Unreasonable hatred and animosity. As much as you'd like to make your statements out to be benign personal opinions, everyone can see that they're anything but.

As for members: not a single person has even disagreed with this decision, let alone walked out as a result. Believe it or not, lots of people appreciate an environment free of the kind of hate that you think qualifies as a discussion. If you still can't see the difference between expressing an opinion and trying to start trouble with spite and anger, then I don't think I can justify putting any more time into trying to explain it to you.

[jrs]

Note to self: This thread is useless.

[T-850]

Note to jrs: If a certain thread is useless... don't post in it. :)

[sunfrog]

Why you gotta be a hater? Love don't hate. Peace out.

[Golgot]

Why you gotta be a hater? Love don't hate. Peace out.

Prepare for a lot more hate.

Bush has basically just become the first US president to endorse Israeli settlements in the West Bank. (Here's the shortest, and most pertinent article you're gonna read on the subject...
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=493237&section=news )

Withdrawls from the comparitively piddling Gaza Strip, and some areas of the West Bank, count for next to nothing if legitimacy is leant to the majority of West Bank settlements that remain.

To have supported this position if it arose from a negotiated truce between the Israeli's and Palestinians would have been acceptable. To blaze in like this is just giving more ammunition to the extremists, and is about as likely to facilitate the peace-process as a ban on religion :rolleyes:

Odds on this has made the whole islamic-terrorism-vs-the-US situation worse, and won't please anyone.

[LordSlaytan]

Maybe you should have made another thread, Golgs, and just let this one die.

[Piddzilla]

Odds on this has made the whole islamic-terrorism-vs-the-US situation worse, and won't please anyone.

Exactly. I was completely stunned when I heard this because I can't understand how he could drop this one now. I mean, it matches Bush's politics but I have to ask myself if the president's advisors have gone on vacation for the summer or something.

[Golgot]

Maybe you should have made another thread, Golgs, and just let this one die.

Yeah, true. Just thought it would make a timely reminder of how much hate will boil from this action. But you're right...it's not a nice sight to see this title popping up is it. I'll move my seething accusations to a nicer location...

EDIT: KINDLY LET THIS THREAD DIE....FURTHER REPERCUSSION DISCUSSIONS AVAILABLE HERE....:).....

http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=152972#post152972

[Johann Bach]

I think that instead of attacking those "Israeli pigs" to use your own words, if you had attacked "German Nazi Pigs," then people would have supported your argument. I think this shows a double standard with respect to genocide. But this is just my personal opinion.

Regards.

[Johann Bach]

Oh, by the way, one thing to keep in mind is that not all Israeli's are the same, or at least this is my current undertanding. There are several parties there: Sharone's Zionist party and then there are moderate parties and liberal parties. It's mostly Sharone's party that supports genocide, but there are many Israeli's who oppose this policy and support equal rights for all humans regardless of ethnic background. I often watch that Satellite channel called "Free Speech TV" which shows many Israeli/Jewish groups protesting Zionism and Sharone and supporting all of humanity. Some leading Israeli-Americans are people like Noam Chomsky: http://www.chomsky.info/ who say Zionism is bad and that Arabs all other ethnic groups should be treated the same and equal. So, my point is that, in my opinion, you should not dislike all Israelis, but only those ones that support genocide.

Regards.

[LordSlaytan]

Hello Spiderman.

[Garrett]

Hello Spiderman.

I was thinking the same thing :rolleyes:

[Johann Bach]

Hello Spiderman.

Excuse me?

[Caitlyn]

Excuse me?


If you are not Spiderman, you are operating from the exact same area and made a beeline for this thread the minute you signed on…

[Revenant]

Excuse me?
what?

[Johann Bach]

If you are not Spiderman, you are operating from the exact same area and made a beeline for this thread the minute you signed on…

Sorry, I'm not spiderman.

What do you mean by beeline? I never heard that terminology before. thanks.

[Johann Bach]

Sorry, I'm not spiderman.

What do you mean by beeline? I never heard that terminology before. thanks.

Okey, I just looked it up on an online dictionary:
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=beeline&x=25&y=23

Main Entry: 1bee·line
Pronunciation: -"lIn
Function: noun
Etymology: from the belief that nectar-laden bees return to their hives in a direct line
: a straight direct course

Okey, I can see the confusion. Actually, I just discovered this forum while searching Yahoo for some interesting forums, so I signed up. I honestly have nothing to do with this "spiderman." This thread seemed interesting to me, Spiderman was attacking all Israeli's and I thought that was unfair, esp. since I am half Jewish. So, I posted here first. I hope you understand.

Regards.

[LordSlaytan]

If you are not Spiderman, you are operating from the exact same area and made a beeline for this thread the minute you signed on…His proxy is the same?

[Caitlyn]

His proxy is the same?


Same city...

[LordSlaytan]

You know it's him.

[Caitlyn]

You know it's him.


I'm not so sure... it's a big city... but if it is, he'll be dealt with... again... ;)

[Tolstoy]

Im going to chime in here, since this in in my area of expertise, kinda.

I have a fairly unpopular view of the Israel/Palistine situation, in that I basically believe Israel is in the right 99%. Although I do not always agree with their methods, I can not say anything is out of bounds when the intentions of the muslim world have been made plainly obvious for the last 50 years, and the media saturation of pro-muslim propaganda has made the world oblivious to facts....

Fact 1: The main antagonist/protagonist (depending on your views) of the whole conflict in the early days was the Mufti Husseini. Arafat was a general in his army, and in turn the Mufti was a nazi criminal who was hellbent on the destruction of all the jews in the middle east. How can Israel even pretend to negotiate with a man who as recently as a couple years ago said he was proud to be in his army?

Fact 2: Everyone always places so much emphasis on the palistinian refugee problem. The fact is, jewish citizens of middle eastern countries have gone through just as many hardships, and have migrated to Israel in similar numbers as the palistinians. The only difference? Israel accepts jewish refugees from other countries, whereas middle eastern countries do not accept palistinian refugees. Jordan is the only country who has even a half humane policy towards palistinians, yet their policy is less than perfect. In many cases, middle eastern countries who take in palistinian refugees force them to live in camps and blockade any sort of building supplies or food from getting through. Why would anybody do this? Well this brings me to point #3.

Fact 3: In a galaxy far far away, the jews signed a dhimmitude with their muslim conquerors, sparing their lives but giving up any sort of freedom. Some of the rules of the dhimmitude -- they had to put devils on their doors, could never accuse an arab in court, could never form their own country.... oh wait... they did... see what I am getting at?

Fact 4: Before Israel formed their own country, jews were migrating to Israel en masse. Did palistine mind? F*** no! They invited the jews, or should I say the Mufti (from fact 1) welcomed the jews, but only if they paid exorbanant prices for land. That same Mufti, who all the palistinians are so fond of, tortured and executed anyone in palistine who would do the same, try to make profit from selling land to the jews.

Fact 5: They have tried to wage many wars against Israel in the past. There was no problem with jews going into Israel and displacing Palistinians before the created their own nation, it was once they formed their own nation and violated the dhimmitude that all this started taking place. Some of the more interesting slogans and quotes from arab leaders back then: "Palistine is our land and the Jews are our dogs" or when the leaders of many arab nations defied the UN and stated something to the effect of -- Many people wonder who the progressors are in this war, it is us and we are going to destroy Israel (I forget the exact quote but it is 100x worst, and represented a time when fanatics didnt hide behind cowardly acts and displayed outright their antisemetism)

There is a lot of history in this issue, and I will agree that Israel has done some horrible stuff in the past. I cant disregard the reasons for the palistinians struggle though.

Not that the palistinians are to blame though, they are victims as much as the jews are, it is the corrupt leaders of other arab nations who are using them as pawns in an antisemetic war against israel.

[The Real Spider]

Although I promised Yoda I wouldn't make any new names and stuff, I just had to this time. Just to point out to you that, LordSlaytan, once again you're wrong. I'm not Johnny basch. It just goes to show you what type of people are on this forum, ones who accuse others blindly. So I'm Spiderman and I just thought I'd step in and let you know you're wrongly accusing someone who didn't do anything. Johnny, you might not hear from me again I'm sure they are going to ban this name but, where in New Orleans are u?

[The Real Spider]

And just so you know, just because I am banned it doesn't mean I am not reading the forum anymore. I still enjoy reading waht people have to say, although I do have to say its sad that I can't reply back. So anyways, what I wanted to say is I don't appreciate people bashing me for no reason and treating me like I have commited murder or something. So I made a bad post, big deal get over it I already got banned for it..no need to beat the dead horse.

[Tolstoy]

Although I promised Yoda I wouldn't make any new names and stuff, I just had to this time. Just to point out to you that, LordSlaytan, once again you're wrong. I'm not Johnny basch. It just goes to show you what type of people are on this forum, ones who accuse others blindly. So I'm Spiderman and I just thought I'd step in and let you know you're wrongly accusing someone who didn't do anything. Johnny, you might not hear from me again I'm sure they are going to ban this name but, where in New Orleans are u?

Im still trying to figure out what you are trying to say... Was the whole point of that post to prove you are a moron?

[LordSlaytan]

Although I promised Yoda I wouldn't make any new names and stuff, I just had to this time. Just to point out to you that, LordSlaytan, once again you're wrong. I'm not Johnny basch. It just goes to show you what type of people are on this forum, ones who accuse others blindly. So I'm Spiderman and I just thought I'd step in and let you know you're wrongly accusing someone who didn't do anything. Johnny, you might not hear from me again I'm sure they are going to ban this name but, where in New Orleans are u?Blah, blah, blah...Gimee a break.

Bach joins today and posts in your ****ty thread, then gets accused for being you since he posted in your ****ty thread and also lives in your city, then you suddenly reappear to defend him while living in the same city...on the same day! Then you assume we're all so fu**ing stupid as not to figure it all out.

Jesus Christ, get a friggin' life, you loser.

[The Real Spider]

Blah, blah, blah...Gimee a break, loser.

Jesus Christ, get a friggin' life.


Yoda, these are the "nice and mature" people you were talking about? Look, I didn't even insult him and look at how he lashes out. Slaytan, I only posted here so you would stop accusing johnny of being someone he isn't. Thats all.

[LordSlaytan]

Get lost fu**wad.

[The Real Spider]

Get lost fu**wad.

Sure thing. Later.

[LordSlaytan]

Oh yeah, take Bach with you. :rolleyes:


Moron.


I can still see you even though you're anonymous and your pathetic negative reputation points equal zero, but thanks for that scathing no comment with it.


Loser.

[Golgot]

Slay, i don't honestly see much comparison between JB's writing style and arguments and Spider's. Calm down eh?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Im going to chime in here, since this in in my area of expertise, kinda.

I have a fairly unpopular view of the Israel/Palistine situation, in that I basically believe Israel is in the right 99%

I don't know nearly enough about the ins-and-outs of the background (i've never heard of this Mufti/Nazi connection you're talking about for a start), but i'm not convinced that Israel is justified in all its actions by any means (or indeed, wise to pursue some of them).

The Arab nations are using the Palestinians as tools, for sure.

Israel has over-reacted in its desire to survive. That much is pretty clear too.

As much as agreement between all parties seems unlikely, it still seems worth pursuing for the sake of the region. As such, do you really think a solution that favours the Israelis "99%" is going to bring stability? Almost certainly not. And yet in many ways, that's what Bush has set in motion politically by backing Sharon's unilateral approach.

So, as a man with a knowledge of the intricacies, you should know more than anyone that it's not so much about who is "right", as "how can we resolve this".

[Yoda]

Although I promised Yoda I wouldn't make any new names and stuff, I just had to this time. Just to point out to you that, LordSlaytan, once again you're wrong. I'm not Johnny basch. It just goes to show you what type of people are on this forum, ones who accuse others blindly. So I'm Spiderman and I just thought I'd step in and let you know you're wrongly accusing someone who didn't do anything. Johnny, you might not hear from me again I'm sure they are going to ban this name but, where in New Orleans are u?As has already been demonstrated to you, you're in no position to accuse others of making haphazard claims. If Slaytan's assumption that Bach was you (which is a pretty reasonable guess, whether you'll admit it or not) "goes to show" something, then your behavior "goes to show" a whole hell of a lot more. If incidents like this help your argument against Slaytan, then they help my argument against you even more.


And just so you know, just because I am banned it doesn't mean I am not reading the forum anymore. I still enjoy reading waht people have to say, although I do have to say its sad that I can't reply back. So anyways, what I wanted to say is I don't appreciate people bashing me for no reason and treating me like I have commited murder or something. So I made a bad post, big deal get over it I already got banned for it..no need to beat the dead horse.Yes, it is sad that you can't reply back. It's sadder that, even when you can, you can't reply back without lashing out.


Yoda, these are the "nice and mature" people you were talking about? Look, I didn't even insult him and look at how he lashes out. Slaytan, I only posted here so you would stop accusing johnny of being someone he isn't. Thats all.So he made a bad post. Big deal, get over it. See how silly that sounds coming from the other direction?

Saying that most of the regulars are generally nice and mature does not mean that they never make mistakes. Provocation needs to be taken into account, which is why you were initially reinstated. You convinced me that it was simply a sensitive topic, and so I gave you a second chance. But your second thread proved to me that it was merely your personality, and not any special provocation, which had set you off.

For whatever reason, you say completely inappropriate things. Everyone does this sometimes, but you've done it repeatedly, and each time you've initially refused to retract what you've said, doing so only after some kind of punishment has been enacted. This shows that you have no real desire to change, and probably, deep down, don't even believe you've done much of anything wrong.

[Yoda]

I think that instead of attacking those "Israeli pigs" to use your own words, if you had attacked "German Nazi Pigs," then people would have supported your argument. I think this shows a double standard with respect to genocide. But this is just my personal opinion.Your opinion is welcome, but I disagree. While it's true that there'd have been far less outcry over the phrase "German Nazi Pigs," this is simply because no reasonable person could possibly support the Nazis, whereas all but the staunchest of anti-Semites must admit that a sensible person could potentially come to support Israel, whether doing so would be right or wrong. Making such harsh statements about controversial topics is quite different than making harsh statements about nearly universally agreed upon topics. Both are mean-spirited, but the former is FAR more likely to incite bitterness, mudslinging, and namecalling, which is what we're trying to avoid here.

Anyway, no one here, that I know of, supports genocide. Those who support Israel (such as myself) support them not because they are error-free, but because their errors are more understandable, and their aims ultimately more admirable, than those of their enemies.

[Golgot]

Anyway, no one here, that I know of, supports genocide. Those who support Israel (such as myself) support them not because they are error-free, but because their errors are more understandable, and their aims ultimately more admirable, than those of their enemies.

The errors on both sides are understandable. And I'm not so sure that Israeli aims are that distinct from Palestinian aims when taken as a whole. Both want to live in that area, and to live in peace - while the extremists on both side want to remove all others from the vicinity and are prepared to use force to do so.

If you're talking about Israeli aims being more admirable than those of the Arab-world-opposition - well, it's still a tricky one. I grant you that ferocious opposition to Jewish presence in the Middle East is not admirable. But isn't it driven by the same desire which caused the original formation of Israel? i.e. the desire to have ultimate access to sites of central religious importance. The multiple spiritual claims to the area mean that any assertion of greater right to it automatically causes further hatred, and is hardly something to be applauded.

Personally, i don't see either side as more or less admirable overall.

The sensible way to proceed seems to be to focus on establishing co-existance (which inevitably means sidelining extremists from both sides as much as possible, and engaging the majority in the conclusions and actualisations. By this i mean, coming to conclusions that are workable and acceptable-enough to those involved).

side-note: I think Bush has stepped away from this agenda by endorsing Sharon's plan. He's taken the Israel-is-99%-right approach, and lined everyone up for a fight.

[Tea Barking]

Hate leads to the dark side.

[LordSlaytan]

Slay, i don't honestly see much comparison between JB's writing style and arguments and Spider's. Calm down eh?Hmm...How about Johann joining then within one minute posting a defensive comment for Spider in this thread. How about Spider showing up on the same day to defend Johann. How about that they were never on at the same time? How about that they live in the same area? How about Spider's intentionally completely misspelling Johann's name in order to make it apparent that he doesn't know who he is?

C'mon...please! Bach is Spider!

You know, for my hundreds of posts that consist of, "Wow, you're so talented!" "Man, you're so great!" "I'm really glad you're a member here" or my just trying to get as many reviewers reviewing as possible by being supportive and kind, or by my taking on Django to get rid of him from this forum...I only have this outburst. It pissed me off that he assumed we were all a bunch of idiots.

So sue me. If people want to give me more negative reputation for it, I understand.

[r3port3r66]

Call me mamby-pamby, but I dislike the title of this thread, and when I log onto the forums main page and it appears, it's discomforting--sorta gives the main page a negative feel. Someone please change the wording... :(

[firegod]

I liked the apology post a lot more. I wish you had stuck with it.

I personally don't think Johann is Spidey, but whether he is or not, I really think one should have more proof before making the accusation.

By the way, I don't think Spidey was misspelling "Johann"; Johann happens to be a German form of "John".

[LordSlaytan]

I'm sorry firegod.

The reason I changed it is because I'm not all that sorry. I went after somebody who has been banned from this forum, not a regular member. If you look through my history over the last year, you'll only see me going after two people, and they've both been banned. I don't make a habit of attacking people just because it makes me feel good, I go after people who are detrimental to the site, that's it.

I'm usually pretty nice to people and try to be as supportive to newcomers as humanly possible. I'm also on the welcome wagon, more often than not, and my use of vulgarity and profanity is usually sparse.

I understand that there are a good number of posters here that prefer flowers to bullets...but I am not one of them. I belong to the school of thought that the best way to get rid of an antagonist is to be antagonistic. You may believe me wrong for that all you want, that's your choice, and your freedom, but you cannot expect everyone to feel that way.

I've done a hell of a lot to support this site, and even in my humble (sometimes not so humble) opinion, this site has benefited because of my presence. I don't see my lash out to a banned member who is manipulating the forum, and its members, as being so terrible. But that’s just me.

You know I like you, and Golgot knows I like him a hell of a lot as well, so my defending myself isn’t an attitude of dislike or disrespect to either one of you, it is just my sticking to my guns. I don’t understand how somebody could still say after all the evidence is laid out that Bach isn’t Spider, and that he is trying to get one over on us. And I don’t understand how somebody, who was banned for a good reason, tricking us and then acting like we’re too stupid to notice it, doesn’t irritate anybody else besides me.

[firegod]

I'm sorry firegod.

The reason I changed it is because I'm not all that sorry. I went after somebody who has been banned from this forum, not a regular member. If you look through my history over the last year, you'll only see me going after two people, and they've both been banned. I don't make a habit of attacking people just because it makes me feel good, I go after people who are detrimental to the site, that's it.

Or maybe people you FEEL are detrimental to the site. You'll get no argument from me, and I think you have a great attitude 99% of the time.


I'm usually pretty nice to people and try to be as supportive to newcomers as humanly possible. I'm also on the welcome wagon, more often than not, and my use of vulgarity and profanity is usually sparse.

Agreed.


I understand that there are a good number of posters here that prefer flowers to bullets...but I am not one of them.

Well, I certainly have no problem with the occasional bullet, especially as harmless as they usually are on a message board. I just sometimes disagree with how and when they are used.


I belong to the school of thought that the best way to get rid of an antagonist is to be antagonistic. You may believe me wrong for that all you want, that's your choice, and your freedom, but you cannot expect everyone to feel that way.

Of course I don't expect that. That would be boring as hell, in my opinion.


I've done a hell of a lot to support this site, and even in my humble (sometimes not so humble) opinion, this site has benefited because of my presence. I don't see my lash out to a banned member who is manipulating the forum, and its members, as being so terrible. But that’s just me.

I don't think it's so terrible. I just didn't like some of the messages from you in this thread. No biggie, I don't think.


You know I like you, and Golgot knows I like him a hell of a lot as well, so my defending myself isn’t an attitude of dislike or disrespect to either one of you, it is just my sticking to my guns.

No disrespect to me perceived on my end, I assure you.


I don’t understand how somebody could still say after all the evidence is laid out that Bach isn’t Spider, and that he is trying to get one over on us. And I don’t understand how somebody, who was banned for a good reason, tricking us and then acting like we’re too stupid to notice it, doesn’t irritate anybody else besides me.

Well, the only real evidence, as far as I can tell, is that they both live in or near New Orleans, the similarities of their views on Israel, and the whole timing issue (Johann posting in the Israel thread right away, mostly). I just don't see that as real strong evidence. They don't have the same IP address, and they don't seem to write similarly. The latter is something that is very difficult to fake for most people. I could probably do it pretty well, but I really doubt Spidey could.

I really don't think it's all that big a deal; I just hope that Johann (if he is not Spidey) doesn't decide to take off after the kind of welcome he's received from you and Caity. He seems to be a bright guy who could contribute quite a bit.

[Tolstoy]

So, as a man with a knowledge of the intricacies, you should know more than anyone that it's not so much about who is "right", as "how can we resolve this".

I honestly don't think there is any realistic way to solve this other than through complete war, which is basically where we are headed.

I don't think that Israel will give Palistine back all the post-1967 lands, because numerous Palistinian officials have stated that those lands are their trojan horse for the destruction of Israel.

I would be the first to beg Sharone to give the land back if I thought it would do one of two things:

A) Please the palistinians and stop the war.
B) Get rid of all public support (must include arab support) for the Palistinian cause once they continue launching terrorist attacks against Israel from their newly formed state.

A, imo, doesnt have a chance in hell of happening. Too much hatred and too much history between these two for people to forgive and forget.

B, imo, doesnt have a chance in hell of happening either. The arab world has been using palistinians for the past 40 years to launch their war against Israel, after they lost a couple outright wars against them. They arent just going to stop pulling the strings once the Palistinians get their land back, since arabs care absolutely nothing for the Palistinians (if you disagree I can expand on this point). So, not only do you have the arab world obviously against you still, you will continue to have a large portion of the world against Israel because they don't see the problem in the Gaza Strip/West Bank, but it lies solely that there is an Israeli state. With this continuing international and domestic support, the palistinians will be able to continue legal terrorism against the Israelis, and we will be in the exact same position as before.

So what do I think is the solution? There are only 2:

A) Things continue as they are going now. Israel gives back some land, then take it back after a terrorist attack and then bomb a couple hamas leaders, and the circle remains unbroken.

B) War

Regardless if Palistine gets back the West Bank/Gaza strip, these are still the only two things that will possibly happen.

As for my support of Israel 99%, I will agree that they have done just as much against the Palistinians as they have done against Israel (probably more) but imo Israel has been doing it out of defense whereas the Palistinians have been used as pawns to continue a war against Israel that has been going on for the past 60 years. One that they tried to win by force, and lost. Israel gained the land fair and square through wars which were started by the arab world. We may as well redefine the borders of the entire world while we are at it.

There is actually another way to resolve this issue, and it is being implemented as we speak. A huge wall separating Israel and Palistine. Jews brought prosperity to Palistine during the 30s/40s, so muchso that the region was able to basically double the amount of Palistinians living in the area. Once they get their own country, they are going to turn into a third world nation, they will continue to live in poverty, and somehow this will all be Israels fault, so be it. A huge wall separating the two countries will basically be war, since it will mean the destruction of the palistinians since they wont have an economy, and they wont be able to launch attacks against Israel. Of course this isnt a fool proff idea, since there isnt much international support for the idea, since it does basically mean death to the Palistinians.

[bluebottle]

It's ironic, that the victims of the worst genocide in man's history, believe that their problems may only be solved by completely annihilating another people. It's also extremely depressing and doesn't give me much hope for the future of humankind.

[Piddzilla]

It's ironic, that the victims of the worst genocide in man's history, believe that their problems may only be solved by completely annihilating another people. It's also extremely depressing and doesn't give me much hope for the future of humankind.

Man, I've been away over the weekend and look at all the good stuff I have missed. :D


Even if I somewhat agree with you I don't think the fact that the jews were the tragets for Hitler's genocide should be a reason for them to be extra humble today. It's just like saying that germans should still feel ashamed for being germans only because what happened in Germany in the 30's and 40's.

That said, I think this world would be a whole lot better without Ariel Sharon, George W Bush and palestinian suicide bombers. I think it is rediculous to say that I am on Israel's side or Palestine's side. But the politics that Sharon stands for (backed up by a moron desperate for votes in an upcoming election) is just saddening.

[Caitlyn]

Well, the only real evidence, as far as I can tell, is that they both live in or near New Orleans, the similarities of their views on Israel, and the whole timing issue (Johann posting in the Israel thread right away, mostly). I just don't see that as real strong evidence. They don't have the same IP address, and they don't seem to write similarly. The latter is something that is very difficult to fake for most people. I could probably do it pretty well, but I really doubt Spidey could.

I really don't think it's all that big a deal; I just hope that Johann (if he is not Spidey) doesn't decide to take off after the kind of welcome he's received from you and Caity. He seems to be a bright guy who could contribute quite a bit.


I had doubts that Johann was Spider from the beginning because there was a marked difference in their writing abilities… however, the first post Johann made was in this thread which did appear a bit suspicious due to the fact it followed the pattern of pervious banned users… and the similarities in the location between the two prompted the post I made in here… basically just to see what he would say…

And as far as my welcome, it would have been a lot warmer had Johann not made one more post in the book suggestion thread before moving on to start threads containing spam… which incidentally contained books for sale... and follows the same pattern of several sneaky spammers we have had on here…

[bluebottle]

I don't think the fact that the jews were the tragets for Hitler's genocide should be a reason for them to be extra humble today.
What gave you the impression that I do?

[Piddzilla]

What gave you the impression that I do?

Oh, I don't think you do really... It's just that in this discussion I often hear the "the jews should know since they're jews" line as some kind of argument against Israel. And I thought that perhaps your post was one of those lines.

[bluebottle]

And I thought that perhaps your post was one of those lines.
I can guarantee you, that is most definately not the case, and the only people I actually hate are Nazis and others of that ilk.

[Golgot]

...so my defending myself isn’t an attitude of dislike or disrespect to either one of you, it is just my sticking to my guns. I don’t understand how somebody could still say after all the evidence is laid out that Bach isn’t Spider, and that he is trying to get one over on us.

Yeah, soz Slay, but i just didn't/don't see it as conclusive as all that, like Fire says. But he may well be Spidey, it's true. Time will tell.

--------------------

I honestly don't think there is any realistic way to solve this other than through complete war, which is basically where we are headed.....

This was a very refreshing post, on many levels. It's nice to be able to agree on equanimity of responsability (more or less) and look at the actual possibilities for change.

I must admit i find the idea of the wall being the only resolution to be truly demoralising. (But then, the whole situation is truly screwed up, as your breakdown neatly demonstrated)

Thought i'd try and take us away from this thread and its ugly title tho, as r3 suggested, and continue on another thread.

Anyone else wanting to carry on chatting about the old and the new in this unchanging milleu, why not come to this thread...

Bush blithely backs Sharon planhttp://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=7141

[Tea Barking]

Ok time for me to be serious (which i try to avoid :p )
I havent been here that long but you guys seem to be good friends on here, so dont argue over this guy.
He made a childish thread and reading the posts i think he desvered to get banned.
He got out of his pram said what he wanted acted childishly and got banned, end of story.
This thread should now be locked/deleted.

And now for something compleatly differnt *does a funny walk from the ministry of funny walks*

[Johnathan_F]

I totally agree Isreal is evil. Heck its the reason there is a crisis in the middle east to begin with.
If America wants peace in the middle east and wants to avoid another 9/11 (which I think we all do) then we need to stop being Isreal's lap dog turning a blind eye to the crimes against humanity it has committed even to the extent of supporting those crimes as a method of "self defense" and start holding Isreal accountable.
In truth I personally believe that we should just get rid of Isreal and re-establish Palistine...but thats just my oppinion

[John McClane]

Wow. What a choice for a first post. Bumping a flaming topic up from the grave. :p

[adidasss]

what the hell are Isreal and Palistine!?
edit: shoulda quoted...:(

[Yoda]

I'm going to have to issue a warning here. If you say something like that again, Jonathan, your account will be banned.

This is a very sensitive subject, so people blanketing either side with terms like "evil" (as this new member did) right in the middle of a bloody conflict are going to find their posts deleted and their accounts banned if they continue doing it. If you want to say a particular act is evil, that's one thing, and you can voice your general disapproval any number of ways.

This may feel like a fine line, but it's one I feel needs to be enforced. I don't want a verbal holy war on this board. It's a hard issue to discuss even politely, without members (let alone total newbies) dropping in and using the starkest language imaginable just to stir up trouble.

[Johnathan_F]

first off let me appologize if I offended anyone...I was merely surfing the web on a chosen topic (namely my oppinon on the middle east) and I happen to come accross the oppinion of a certain past member of whom I agree with on this site and so I threw my 2 cents in... I did not take into account the date of the entry just the content itself...forgive me for bringing up a dead issue. But in the future please realize that entering certain ideas to look up online can lead one to this persons article and as such lead random people like me to respond.....BTW what is this chat page about anyway?




I'm going to have to issue a warning here. If you say something like that again, Jonathan, your account will be banned.

This is a very sensitive subject, so people blanketing either side with terms like "evil" (as this new member did) right in the middle of a bloody conflict are going to find their posts deleted and their accounts banned if they continue doing it. If you want to say a particular act is evil, that's one thing, and you can voice your general disapproval any number of ways.

This may feel like a fine line, but it's one I feel needs to be enforced. I don't want a verbal holy war on this board. It's a hard issue to discuss even politely, without members (let alone total newbies) dropping in and using the starkest language imaginable just to stir up trouble.

[John McClane]

BTW what is this chat page about anyway?:rolleyes:

[Yoda]

first off let me appologize if I offended anyone...I was merely surfing the web on a chosen topic (namely my oppinon on the middle east) and I happen to come accross the oppinion of a certain past member of whom I agree with on this site and so I threw my 2 cents in... I did not take into account the date of the entry just the content itself...forgive me for bringing up a dead issue. But in the future please realize that entering certain ideas to look up online can lead one to this persons article and as such lead random people like me to respond.....
While I appreciate your apology and clarification, the problem wasn't so much the resurrecting of the old thread as what you chose to say. Still, I appreciate you toning it down.

BTW what is this chat page about anyway?
If you mean this forum, it's, well, about movies. We have areas here for discussions unrelated to cinema, of course, but we try to keep the focus on film more often than not.

[Johnathan_F]

unrelated to cinema you say....so by that do you mean you only discuss sundance or inde films?

[Yoda]

unrelated to cinema you say....so by that do you mean you only discuss sundance or inde films?
No. I'm not sure where I'm being unclear here, exactly...this forum exists to allow people to discuss movies. This particular board (titled "Intermission: Miscellaneous Chat") exists so that the members here can occasionally discuss things other than movies.

[KnicksRIP]

I gave you a second chance to be polite in your political contentions. You assured me you would. You've now broken that assurance, and have thus been banned again.

The situation between Israel and Palestine is a complicated one. Even if we were all to agree that Israel was doing unreasonable things, it would still not justify the kind of comments you have repeatedly made about the Israelis as a whole, or at those who have defended them.

On a less objective note, the mere fact that you cannot contain your anger should serve a signal to you that you are not being fair and objective in your judgements about the situation. You appear far too emotionally involved in the conflict to give a fair account of it. Right or wrong, the attitude you bring to these discussions will only hurt your case in the long run.

That's all.

Excellent post, although I will admit that it is perfectly *reasonable* to be emotional about such matters of life, death, and land.

This is a VERY complicated issue, and I doubt that internet punditry will win anyone over to anyone else's side. I'm glad this is one of many forums where people can get issues off their chest, but after a certain amount of bickering, it's easy to find a stalemate that will only lead to more hurt feelings, which is why I pulled out of the other thread (I'd like my time here to be more about movies than about politics, after all).

I don't wish anyone ill will, or any group of people, etc. I wish only for the same things other people typically wish--peace and prosperity. Actions notwithstanding, if the Israelis left the Middle East, that would be a huge gaping hole of culture, as well as an extremely unique, extremely vulnerable 10% Arab-Christian populace. And if many Palestinians continue to be decimated by poverty and uncareful military operations, that, too, will lead to a gaping hole in the culture of the region. Both cultures are so fragile in so many ways, it's easy to see why they react to each other like cornered beasts, and particularly easy to see why there may be hatred when one culture is typically wealthy or middle-income and the other is impoverished.

As I always say, it's the oldest civilized region in the world, but in many ways, it's the least mature. These two types of people need each other (and I don't mean as the basis for a hateful dichotomy), and there are many peaceful neighborhoods in America (I'm not sure about other places) where that reciprocity is evident.

So, as absolutely corny as it may sound, the last thing we need in this world right now is MORE hatred (such as that present in the title of this thread).

[Equilibrium]

I wonder who this "SPIDEI2_MAN__" is.

By the way jonathan...i am SPIDEI2_MAN__ and this thread has been dead for a while now...its one of the reasons i got banned and had to change my name to this one.

Personally I dont think your post merited a warning it wasn't malicious in nature..just very emotional, however, learn to curb your language around here and i welcome your support. Hope to see you around kid.

[Equilibrium]

Excellent post, although I will admit that it is perfectly *reasonable* to be emotional about such matters of life, death, and land.

This is a VERY complicated issue, and I doubt that internet punditry will win anyone over to anyone else's side. I'm glad this is one of many forums where people can get issues off their chest, but after a certain amount of bickering, it's easy to find a stalemate that will only lead to more hurt feelings, which is why I pulled out of the other thread (I'd like my time here to be more about movies than about politics, after all).

I don't wish anyone ill will, or any group of people, etc. I wish only for the same things other people typically wish--peace and prosperity. Actions notwithstanding, if the Israelis left the Middle East, that would be a huge gaping hole of culture, as well as an extremely unique, extremely vulnerable 10% Arab-Christian populace. And if many Palestinians continue to be decimated by poverty and uncareful military operations, that, too, will lead to a gaping hole in the culture of the region. Both cultures are so fragile in so many ways, it's easy to see why they react to each other like cornered beasts, and particularly easy to see why there may be hatred when one culture is typically wealthy or middle-income and the other is impoverished.

As I always say, it's the oldest civilized region in the world, but in many ways, it's the least mature. These two types of people need each other (and I don't mean as the basis for a hateful dichotomy), and there are many peaceful neighborhoods in America (I'm not sure about other places) where that reciprocity is evident.

So, as absolutely corny as it may sound, the last thing we need in this world right now is MORE hatred (such as that present in the title of this thread).

for the first time since we've debated about politics...i can't find anything in this post i disagree with.

[MrPink]

damn It's unbelievable how many people are out there who just do not understand the situation and because of some images seen in the media developers retarded opinion.

this video summarizes the situation the best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEzvhvOcWEs

Edit -another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM0DjOC74zI&feature=related

[downthesun]

I live in the UAE and have a few Palestinian friends so quite clearly my opinion on this matter is going to be completely skewed one way. I'm not even going to touch this topic *avoids conflict and argument*

[will.15]

Hey, Mr. Pink, there is no need to revive every ancient thread you can find about Israel, and why are you double posting videos? You are not going to convert pro Palestinians with clips from super right-wingers like Glenn Beck and Dennis Prager.

[honeykid]

will's right. I don't think a Glen Beck video could convince me to **** Drew Barrymore. :D

[zed]

I understand if you are anti-Israeli, but I do not understand if you are Pro-Palestinian. How anyone can support someone who deliberately targets children is beyond me.