How do you stay happy when things in the world are so terrible? [Archive]

AgrippinaX

06-30-24, 08:10 PM

Watching this thread, as they say on Reddit. :) What I’m going to say below hasn’t been working that well for me lately, so take it with a grain of salt.

To answer your question: I listen to music, any and all sorts (I am not that selective, not just by your standards, Minio (I listen to pop, hip-hop, opera, anything), but I am constantly on the lookout for new music and update my library all the time, adding stuff. The old adage that one listens to music from one’s youth and doesn’t like new music definitely doesn’t apply to me).

I adore music and the worse things get (which, frankly I’ve had some experience with that in the last few years), the more I retreat into it. It used to be movies, but ironically, I can’t anymore. They require too much processing and they make me sad more often than not now, which isn’t the point.

As such, I listen to music, swap my headphones every now and then to keep them charged. When I’m in that zone, it physically gives me shivers. I get a scary rush of adrenaline and eargasms, as a great artist called it.

Without exaggeration, I must spend 19-20 hours a day listening to music. My library is pretty huge and on shuffle so it never gets old (thematically it must be weird, but I like going from Itzhak Perlman to Concrete Blonde to Metallica and not knowing what’s next).

I find myself foregoing films for music more and more (scandalous, I know), so in the evening I just sit on my porch with my music.

But this isn’t for everyone. My mother who trained as a professional violinist says she couldn’t do this because this ‘wears out’ music for her. I don’t relate to this. She also thinks working to music cheapens it which I understand, but I’ve never enjoyed a song any less just because I’d previously written an article or a short story to it.

FilmBuff

06-30-24, 08:21 PM

You should be happy things aren't even worse.

Like, we could be living in a post-nuclear holocaust.

Captain Steel

06-30-24, 10:07 PM

Pick a happy persona.

Can you elaborate, Rules?

Captain Steel

06-30-24, 10:15 PM

Interesting topic, and a question I've struggled with most of my life.

It's natural to feel a sense of guilt if you feel happy while there is so much suffering in the world, and there is always suffering, usually more and at levels none of us can even imagine what with 8 billion people on the planet. In light of such a reality, it would make sense to NEVER feel happy (and thus avoid the feelings of guilt), but more importantly to express your virtue and compassion towards others' suffering.

But then where would you be? Miserable all the time and only adding to the world's suffering rather than lessening it. You'd become one of the billions of reasons others can't feel happy or feel guilty about feeling happy.

There is no easy answer for this one, but realize that those who struggle with this problem are the truly compassionate and empathetic people - and being such makes you special (at least compared to those who only seek pleasure for themselves and never consider the pain of others).

Just asking this question means you are one of the people who can and will make a difference in the world!

Best advice is to take action - help people; volunteer, donate, give of yourself, lend an ear to others, be a good friend, neighbor or relative. Practice both random and targeted / intentional acts of kindness.

It's the lesson from Groundhog Day once again... you don't do it just to alleviate your guilt or to impress others or to appear righteous, but because you begin to realize that doing good for goodness sake is the key to free yourself from the prison of suffering, from being brought down by all the terribleness in the world & to allowing yourself to feel happiness despite the world.

Then take some satisfaction in the fact that you are contributing to positive changes rather than adding to all the misery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_RjndG0IX8

FilmBuff

06-30-24, 10:18 PM

This thread reminded me of this

https://y.yarn.co/10f77384-61cb-4f2b-af53-ed0d16faddd3_text.gif

Captain Steel

07-01-24, 03:45 AM

This isn't bad advice, though I'm very anti-GD.

Sometimes wallowing really is the best thing, and if one is a brilliant *******, then perhaps be that. One size does not fit all.

The something that we do with our lives may serve others in unexpected ways, so best to do and be what we're good at, assuming that's not raping/killing/torturing/drug dealing.

When I posted that movie clip I was reminded of the Joker, and then I wondered if Metropolis is Gotham City, and figured you would know?

Superman and Batman bro down together, right? Are Gotham and Metropolis the same place going by different names, or like Minneapolis-St. Paul?

It would make me happy to hear your answer despite the fact that many people are dying even as I ask this silly question. :cool:

I agree about wallowing. Grief, sorrow, pain, compassion, empathy - are natural aspects of the emotional spectrum. It's not normal to be happy all of the time or even most of the time. There is time to feel bad & times to feel sad. (Yikes, I sound like Mr. Rogers!) ;)

As to Gotham & Metropolis... they are different places. Granted, in the early days of comics, they were both based on real-life New York City, but in their fictional continuity, they are both large cities on or near the east coast, while NYC exists also in the DC Universe.

Typically, Metropolis is thought to be more modern, bright and clean, with giant gleaming skyscrapers, while Gotham is thought to be more gothic (with things like gargoyles decorating buildings), older, dirtier, seedier and darker.

(Trivia: in the Superman movie of 1978 & its sequels, footage of NYC was largely used to represent Metropolis, while in virtually all of the Batman films, Gotham was created by the filmmakers.)

Captain Steel

07-01-24, 04:08 AM

Two DIFFERENT places! :eek:

And here you have Spiderguy living in Queens. As long as he stays away from Dr. Strange, it's all much simpler.

Simplicity can, for many, prove an invitation to greater contentment. :)

Chasing that happiness dragon?

Gonna get a person et.

Not to engage in a comics history lesson (but I can't help myself).

Marvel Comics (home of Spider-Man & Dr. Strange) started out their superhero age (a.k.a. the Silver Age circa 1960's) by having most of their characters based in our reality. In other words, their stories took place in real locations. Most of their superheroes operated in New York City. (Marvel has no aversion to creating fictional places, but initially were thought to bring a greater sense of realism to comics by having them take place in real cities and within a single reality where characters would meet.)

DC Comics (the older company: home of Superman & Batman) started out almost the opposite way with the majority of their characters having their own fictional cities. And at the start of the Golden Age (circa late 1930's to 1950's) characters didn't usually share stories or meet, that is until the first super-team: The Justice Society of America.
DC would later include plenty of real places among their plethora of fictional towns & cities (not to mention multiple universes, multiple Earths, then single continuities, then multiple ones again - far to complicated to try to explain).

But I think we can honestly attribute the first speculations on "String Theory" to DC Comics during their Silver Age.

AgrippinaX

07-01-24, 12:41 PM

Yet another thread descending into comic book talk.

Yoda

07-01-24, 12:50 PM

"The vastness is only bearable through love."

That's a more specific answer, but it has a much wider application because the logic works the same: instead of trying to comprehend everything, you spend time trying to comprehend one person closest to you. And instead of trying to encapsulate the unfathomable size and scope of creation, or reckon with all the problems of the world, you should similarly narrow your view, at least most of the time, to the people and things immediately around you and/or the things you can feasibly understand and control.

Paradoxically, one of the things that will make you happier is to accept that you're not always supposed to be happy. Mankind's suffering is special in that it can be amplified by pondering itself, but if you can sit back and say "I'm not very happy right now" and just find good ways to pass that time, you'll find yourself happier more.

There's more, but I could go on forever, and that probably wouldn't make either of us happy. :)

Yoda

07-01-24, 12:52 PM

Oh, and make sure to rule out boring, non-existential reasons for sadness or ennui: drink water, get enough sleep, eat better, get some freakin' sunlight, do a little exercise.

Sometimes you'll still just feel bad, but rule all those reasons out first. And no, you can't rule them out just by thinking about them. You literally have to do all those things to know whether that's the reason (or, more likely, part of the reason). It's amazing how much more manageable the big things seem when you take care of the little things.

Citizen Rules

07-01-24, 01:54 PM

...It's natural to feel a sense of guilt if you feel happy while there is so much suffering in the world, and there is always suffering, usually more and at levels none of us can even imagine what with 8 billion people on the planet...There is no easy answer for this one...I must be one big SOB because I'm happy most of the time and I do know the world is all screwed up. I just don't dwell on it.

The key is to shut off the f****** news! I'm serious, people who watch a lot of news internalize all the suffering and problems of the world and get angry, fearful and stressed out. I'm not kidding, be your own universe.

Captain Steel

07-01-24, 02:36 PM

Yet another thread descending into comic book talk.

Just like movies these days! ;)

AgrippinaX

07-01-24, 02:39 PM

Just like movies these days! ;)

I didn’t mean anything bitchy :) Just an observation. Peace and love from me.

TONGO

07-01-24, 02:46 PM

Acceptance without expectation. I can't change the world around me, and if I really want to be miserable it's when I try to. Only by changing how we view things can serenity be attained. Is the glass of water half full or half empty? Neither. The answer is you have water. Some of the happiest people in the world have no wealth whatsoever, and the richest feel empty, only compensating by a lavish exterior. Those poor people enjoy a meal and are happier for it than the rich persons overpriced plate. Be thankful for what you have now because nothing is permanent. Things, money, a great lover, etc... they only equal to temporary excitement which will always fade. Happiness comes from within. We ruin it by wanting more, or something new. A lottery winner could be living in misery weeks after winning. Many go bankrupt because of want and more, a hole within ourselves unable to be filled. It's not the world, it's the hole inside ourselves which keeps us from being happy. Growth always takes place outside our comfort zone. Let go of your fear of lost leisure and live. Once we become stronger it takes less to make us happy. Life is more vast than we allow it to be. Again, it's not the world, it's us. The only way I can make the world better is being a better person. Then I can be happy in the in-between from the inevitable good or bad times. I'm happy and content in the normal then when before it just equalled discontentment.

Captain Steel

07-01-24, 06:34 PM

I didn’t mean anything bitchy :) Just an observation. Peace and love from me.

Totally cool. If it were up to me, every conversation would involve comic books (and how the people who turn them into movies these days are just obsessed with race and trying to appear not to be racist by changing a major percentage of characters' ethnicities - which is really just another form of racism)! :D

AgrippinaX

07-01-24, 06:37 PM

Captain Steel

07-01-24, 06:40 PM

Heh, you know what, that side of things I would talk about. And I do love all things Joker. I ain’t hopeless! :)

We have entire threads devoted to that subject! :)

AgrippinaX

07-01-24, 06:41 PM

We have entire threads devoted to that subject! :)

Yeah, I know. I’m trying to behave, see. I can’t get banned from here, it’s my only social outlet. :)

Wyldesyde19

07-01-24, 07:10 PM

Totally cool. If it were up to me, every conversation would involve comic books (and how the people who turn them into movies these days are just obsessed with race and trying to appear not to be racist by changing a major percentage of characters' ethnicities - which is really just another form of racism)! :D

Not to derail this any further but:
That’s actually not racist as per the following definition
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

• the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.

White people, as a whole, are not marginalized in any way. Repurposing the ethnicity or skin color of a comic book character to be more inclusive, isn’t racist.

Captain Steel

07-01-24, 10:02 PM

Yeah, I know. I’m trying to behave, see. I can’t get banned from here, it’s my only social outlet. :)

We have a lot in common! :)

Citizen Rules

07-01-24, 10:07 PM

We have a lot in common! :)We could say you two are marginalized🙂

Captain Steel

07-01-24, 10:18 PM

Not to derail this any further but:
That’s actually not racist as per the following definition
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

• the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.

White people, as a whole, are not marginalized in any way. Repurposing the ethnicity or skin color of a comic book character to be more inclusive, isn’t racist.

That's the definition made up by the side that says no one can be racist except for the majority.

This definition is a one-sided obfuscation (an aspect of biased racism itself) which makes all members of all minority groups exempt from racist thoughts no matter how they act since, by definition; they can't ever be "racist" despite the most blatant of racist attitudes & actions.

It's a silly definition that ignores reality & compresses the scales of balance on the side of the obviously false and the illogical.

It's incorrect to say only one group can hate based on race (thus making those with racist attitudes "racist"), but other groups can hate as much as they want solely because of race, yet never be guilty of being racist.

Doesn't this definition itself demonstrate judging groups as wholes (another definition of racism) and classifying one as being capable of racism, while saying all others are innocent of such hateful thoughts because it's somehow impossible for them to be racist?

Some of us believe racism (like any other attitude of negativity, hatred, prejudice, bias, or avarice toward others) is "equal opportunity" = anyone can be racist against anyone else depending on how they think, what they say and how they act.

To say otherwise is to completely deny human nature (and is racist itself as it pigeon-holes all people into groups that must presumably think a certain way along racial lines).

beelzebubble

07-01-24, 10:41 PM

Hey Everybody! Ixnay on the acismray alktay! Lets' not all get banned tonight.

Captain Steel

07-01-24, 10:44 PM

Hey Everybody! Ixnay on the acismray alktay! Lets' not all get banned tonight.

Why, it's not necessarily "political" - it's a "social" issue.

Anyway... back to comic book talk.

Oops - I mean... the secret to happiness in the face of a troubled world (which is usually engaging in comic book talk). ;)

Citizen Rules

07-01-24, 11:03 PM

Wyldesyde19

07-01-24, 11:07 PM

That's the definition made up by the side that says no one can be racist except for the majority.

This definition is a one-sided obfuscation (an aspect of biased racism itself) which makes all members of all minority groups exempt from racist thoughts no matter how they act since, by definition; they can't ever be "racist" despite the most blatant of racist attitudes & actions.

It's a silly definition that ignores reality & compresses the scales of balance on the side of the obviously false and the illogical.

It's incorrect to say only one group can hate based on race (thus making those with racist attitudes "racist"), but other groups can hate as much as they want solely because of race, yet never be guilty of being racist.

Doesn't this definition itself demonstrate judging groups as wholes (another definition of racism) and classifying one as being capable of racism, while saying all others are innocent of such hateful thoughts because it's somehow impossible for them to be racist?

Some of us believe racism (like any other attitude of negativity, hatred, prejudice, bias, or avarice toward others) is "equal opportunity" = anyone can be racist against anyone else depending on how they think, what they say and how they act.

To say otherwise is to completely deny human nature (and is racist itself as it pigeon-holes all people into groups that must presumably think a certain way along racial lines).

Attacking the definition doesn’t support your argument that switching the ethnicity of a character is, in and of itself, racist. No where does it say any of which you’re claiming, in fact.

Citizen Rules

07-01-24, 11:08 PM

Why, it's not necessarily "political" - it's a "social" issue.

Anyway... back to comic book talk.

Oops - I mean... the secret to happiness in the face of a troubled world (which is usually engaging in comic book talk). ;)While I was grocery shopping, I seen a special issue of Mad magazine where they spoofed the classic movies. See how that ties into MoFo! On the cover was the Jaws shark about to eat the Mad kid. I looked at the magazine and said to my wife as we stood in line. 'Who would read that now adays? I could see a kid in the 1960s liking it but who would buy that magazine now?" So that brings me to ask you, are you now or have ever been a reader of Mad magazine:D

gbgoodies

07-01-24, 11:19 PM

How do you stay happy when things in the world are so terrible?

Over the past couple of years, there's been so much going on that it's been hard to stay happy. Some days have been so bad that I've been on the verge of a breakdown, but I managed to push on because there are people in my life who are depending on me to be there for them. So I just keep busy doing everything I can to help them.

But when I'm alone, and I'm on the edge, I like to sit in a dark room, close my eyes, and just listen to music to relax. Sometimes, I play simple puzzle games on my phone to help my mind focus. And I'll occasionally spend time looking at pictures on Pinterest to find things to smile about. (Adorable bunny pictures can almost always make me smile. :))

Captain Steel

07-01-24, 11:21 PM

Attacking the definition doesn’t support your argument that switching the ethnicity of a character is, in and of itself, racist. No where does it say any of which you’re claiming, in fact.

You are correct from a debate standpoint. To support my claim would require much further delving (which I've done on other threads at length and to the almost audible groans of fellow members). So, on this I will give you the last word (since consensus holds that continuing on this particular subject will only jeopardize this thread).

Wyldesyde19

07-01-24, 11:23 PM

You are correct from a debate standpoint. To support my claim would require much further delving (which I've done on other threads at length and to the almost audible groans of fellow members). So, on this I will give you the last word (since consensus holds that continuing on this particular subject will only jeopardize this thread).

No hard feelings either, but yeah, best to stop here before it gets closed. 👍

gbgoodies

07-01-24, 11:24 PM

While I was grocery shopping, I seen a special issue of Mad magazine where they spoofed the classic movies. See how that ties into MoFo! On the cover was the Jaws shark about to eat the Mad kid. I looked at the magazine and said to my wife as we stood in line. 'Who would read that now adays? I could see a kid in the 1960s liking it but who would buy that magazine now?" So that brings me to ask you, are you now or have ever been a reader of Mad magazine:D

I used to read Mad magazine when I was a kid, but I didn't even know that it was still around. I would still read it as long as the issue spoofed stuff that I like, but I'm sure that the price has gone up so much over the years that I would probably just read it on the checkout line, rather than paying some ridiculous price for a magazine.

Captain Steel

07-01-24, 11:28 PM

While I was grocery shopping, I seen a special issue of Mad magazine where they spoofed the classic movies. See how that ties into MoFo! On the cover was the Jaws shark about to eat the Mad kid. I looked at the magazine and said to my wife as we stood in line. 'Who would read that now adays? I could see a kid in the 1960s liking it but who would buy that magazine now?" So that brings me to ask you, are you now or have ever been a reader of Mad magazine:D

Yep - I was a Mad connoisseur! I didn't buy it regularly, but maybe a few times a year. I remember in grade school the magazines were coveted and even traded about between students. One huge attraction was the fold-in back cover - which store owners wouldn't let you fold unless you bought the magazine first!

Mad was unique in that it was relatively "clean" (suitable for grade-school age kids) yet had an adult-level of biting satire.

Captain Steel

07-01-24, 11:30 PM

Over the past couple of years, there's been so much going on that it's been hard to stay happy. Some days have been so bad that I've been on the verge of a breakdown, but I managed to push on because there are people in my life who are depending on me to be there for them. So I just keep busy doing everything I can to help them.

But when I'm alone, and I'm on the edge, I like to sit in a dark room, close my eyes, and just listen to music to relax. Sometimes, I play simple puzzle games on my phone to help my mind focus. And I'll occasionally spend time looking at pictures on Pinterest to find things to smile about. (Adorable bunny pictures can almost always make me smile. :))

Look who's back!
How are you doing, gbg?
We've missed you.

gbgoodies

07-01-24, 11:32 PM

Look who's back!
How are you doing, gbg?
We've missed you.

I've had a rough year or two, but all things considered, I'm doing okay.
I'm glad to be back. I've missed you too.

Captain Steel

07-01-24, 11:39 PM

I was out grocery shopping today and I was thinking about my earlier post where I quoted Captain Steel and said 'I'm usually happy.' When I say I'm 'happy', that doesn't mean I'm on cloud nine or anything like that. I mean, I'm mostly content. I don't worry too much, but I still do of course. I don't get too bummed out but yeah on occasion I do. I do know I use to have TV and was a news junkie and it really put the burden of the world's problems on my mind. When I got married we didn't have TV service and still don't and I've been happier. I don't miss being exposed to the negativity the news can bring.

In your previous post about not watching the news, it sounded like you largely answered the question as to your own happiness. It's great advice. (And if people can't or don't choose to cut it out completely, at least they can lessen it or balance out the time with other input.)

Happiness is also largely circumstantial - I don't know all the details of your life, Rules, but from what I've gleaned here it sounds like you have a good marriage (which can be a "make or break" issue for most people) and a simplified living situation (surrounded by nature).

Relationships are key. (Bad news for me, since I'm a recluse and have few relationships... from past experience, I've come to the conclusion that I'd be - if not "happier" then more contented - with no relationships than with the pain that comes with dysfunctional ones.)

AgrippinaX

07-02-24, 03:02 AM

Or ascending!

I really needed to get that Metropolis/Gotham thing cleared up! :D

Fair enough! A pursuit of knowledge at any cost, I like that.

John-Connor

07-02-24, 04:03 AM

I'm doing okay.
I'm glad to be back.
Welcome back!

https://media0.giphy.com/media/cKbLJzS0cOTklEmzto/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952ff3zb1a8wakxewfp4tl48ziwpg5lp227xwyujqah&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gi f

AgrippinaX

07-02-24, 04:29 PM

Relationships are key. (Bad news for me, since I'm a recluse and have few relationships... from past experience, I've come to the conclusion that I'd be - if not "happier" then more contented - with no relationships than with the pain that comes with dysfunctional ones.)

Same here. I think I could force myself into it, like I’ve forced myself into so much that was stressful over the years. But I wouldn’t want to. I lasted 3 months with my ex last year. I felt so suffocated and enraged all the time, even though by any reasonable definition, he did his best to cater to my needs, be a good guy, and all that.

I just wanted to go home and be alone with my music. He was a part-time musician and had great taste, so I think a huge part of the attraction was exploring that together. But that never happened, and I was bored and wanted to be alone all the time, so eventually I just left. I suppose it was unreasonable of me to think that if he was a musician, he had to indulge my melomania. I do have three close friends which I unironically consider to be a lot, but I think relationships are also put on a pedestal of sorts.

So I don’t think it’s ‘bad news’ for us, as such. We’re just a little different. It’s an interesting subject. All my life I’ve been reading about people/relationships/company enhancing quality of life, yet I’m at my most depressed when I’m forced to go into the office, interact with people, all that jazz.

The only time I considered killing myself was when I was going into the office five times a week about three years ago. Relationships can cause a lot of stress and leave one rather unprotected and, well, vulnerable. Which again is supposed to be a good thing, but I just can’t afford for things to get worse. Some people just aren’t meant to be around other people, I think.

Captain Steel

07-02-24, 05:50 PM

So I don’t think it’s ‘bad news’ for us, as such. We’re just a little different. It’s an interesting subject. All my life I’ve been reading about people/relationships/company enhancing quality of life, yet I’m at my most depressed when I’m forced to go into the office, interact with people, all that jazz.

I love that paragraph!

AgrippinaX

07-02-24, 05:54 PM

I love that paragraph!

Thank you!

Balor

07-02-24, 10:06 PM

Ha---I just stop being happy...

rauldc14

07-02-24, 10:51 PM

Journal your thoughts

Galactic Traveler

07-02-24, 10:55 PM

Happiness is a choice. We can all be happy if we truly want to.

FilmBuff

07-02-24, 11:10 PM

Happiness is a choice. We can all be happy if we truly want to.

I think we can be relatively happy. The moment we stop to think about all of the horrible stuff that happens in the world, well, I think it's a little bit hard to be happy about that.

Galactic Traveler

07-02-24, 11:21 PM

I think we can be relatively happy. The moment we stop to think about all of the horrible stuff that happens in the world, well, I think it's a little bit hard to be happy about that.

In my line of work I've seen some awful things over the years. Stuff that briefly makes you cast doubt on whether or not there's a god. But here's the thing, and there's really no way of getting around it. You have to stay strong and not let evil acts bring you down or question your foundation. You can't allow other people or acts to rent space in your head. I firmly believe the world is mostly full of love. Of course there's evil out there but there's exceptions to every rule. It's important for me to ignore the bad stuff and focus on all of the good that's out there.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ8gtyGlNgSC2tvSMsSCjSLbiDgFxzk1i_Xfw&s

FilmBuff

07-02-24, 11:25 PM

You can't allow other people or acts to rent space in your head.

But that's not what I'm talking about, at all.

It's just the feeling of wishing you could do something to ease the pain of others, or make a meaningful improvement in the lives of people, but often that is beyond any one person's capacity.

It's hard getting adjusted to the idea that there's a lot of stuff you just can't do anything about.

Galactic Traveler

07-02-24, 11:29 PM

It's hard getting adjusted to the idea that there's a lot of stuff you just can't do anything about.

Agreed.

Balor

07-03-24, 12:11 AM

Happiness is a choice. We can all be happy if we truly want to.

Well, yes, I suppose we can all become Stoics.

gbgoodies

07-03-24, 02:41 AM

Welcome back!

https://media0.giphy.com/media/cKbLJzS0cOTklEmzto/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952ff3zb1a8wakxewfp4tl48ziwpg5lp227xwyujqah&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gi f

Thank you! I'm glad to be back! :)

doubledenim

07-03-24, 08:24 AM

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMTZxa3R4YmNsaGdnNWVpc2thZDg2N3BqaDRkcTQwbTNrdm1kbXJqYyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/MSic43N1RoGt0kxXvo/giphy-downsized-large.gif

mrblond

07-03-24, 10:51 AM

How do you stay happy when things in the world are so terrible?

Things in the world been terrible for a hundred years already.
Yes, for a century time, there were couple of several-year breaks that established some illusions.

Maybe, the world needs some great earthquake to get a better direction. You know, every medical treatment is terrible but can't be avoided, in case you want to move on.

Balor

07-03-24, 02:56 PM

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMTZxa3R4YmNsaGdnNWVpc2thZDg2N3BqaDRkcTQwbTNrdm1kbXJqYyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/MSic43N1RoGt0kxXvo/giphy-downsized-large.gif

Ok, this does make me happy...

Balor

07-03-24, 02:58 PM

(And no, this was not by sheer willpower!)

Citizen Rules

07-03-24, 03:23 PM

Things in the world been terrible for a hundred thousands of years already.The world has been terrible and wonderful since the dawn of time.

Captain Steel

07-03-24, 03:31 PM

Happiness is a choice. We can all be happy if we truly want to.

"Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."

(and this, coming from a guy who suffered from depression)
- Abraham Lincoln

Citizen Rules

07-03-24, 04:12 PM

"Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."

(and this, coming from a guy who suffered from depression)
- Abraham Lincoln I watched an excellent documentary about Lincoln and learned that he did suffer from chronic depression. Which segues into what I wanted to say earlier:
One of the last groups of people who still get publicly shamed, are those suffering from depression. I'm sure it hurts those people when the rest of us tell them 'don't worry be happy'. It's not like they can switch of depression at will.

*Not referencing any post in this thread, it's just something I had been thinking about.

doubledenim

07-03-24, 06:50 PM

FromBeyond

07-05-24, 03:45 PM

I don't.

Citizen Rules

07-05-24, 04:45 PM

I don't.If the world was less terrible would that make you more personally happy?

Captain Steel

07-05-24, 06:35 PM

Baby goats make everything better!

Are we at the point in the conversation where the “average life” has never been better in the history of mankind and we’re not designed to process information from a “world” of more than 30 people?

Interesting: the "average life" (or perhaps the "average modern life") is really a double-edged sword.

I think one reason people may have been (or seemed) less unhappy (from things like chronic depression) in eras past is because they just didn't have time for a lot of introspection or dwelling on problems. Their lives were work and drudgery (which should be sources of unhappiness) where they were often one weather change away from losing everything they had. But I think they were so consumed with all the work that it took just to stay fed and warm and to survive that pondering the negative didn't own a space in their minds.

If anything, indoor plumbing should make us ecstatic (but it doesn't because we take it for granted). Whereas having to get up, get dressed, put shoes on, stoke the fire on your way out, go to the outhouse JUST to take a leak, then gather more wood on your way back in, sweep the snow out that you tracked in the house, then hang your clothes by the fire to dry (since they got wet from snow) before returning to bed should have made people miserable, but it didn't since that was the way of life when you had to use the bathroom in the middle of the night.

Most of us today live lives of convenience like the past world never knew. Yet, these lives of relative luxury seem to create their own forms of disconnect & unhappiness. We've all heard the stories of the people who seem to have it all, or who have gained it all, or who've had it all handed to them, being the most unhappy & self-destructive people in the world.

There seems to be a strange balance between things like convenience & comfort and work & drudgery and how these things pertain to happiness, contentment & fulfillment.

AgrippinaX

07-06-24, 07:07 AM

Well, for a thread that I for one was looking to make me feel better, or at least not actively worse, this isn’t exactly succeeding. Right.

In relation to the above, I’m probably the last person on Earth to buy mindfulness, gratitude and all that yoga stuff (for various largely health-related personal reasons I won’t go into). However, I quite often find myself, not grateful as such but actively appreciative of hot baths, good coffee, warm fireplace, my garden, pine trees, a house surrounded by nature and rivers and such.

I certainly don’t come at it from a place of being actively thankful, let alone giving thanks to an entity/a God/a ‘something’, but I do find myself noticing the things I enjoy in life (oh my god, MUSIC! I would sell my liver and spleen both to keep music in my life) on a daily basis, not only when there’s a crisis or electricity and hot water (or music for that matter) are suddenly lacking.
So I think it’s possible to be reasonably appreciative of everything that we as a society ‘take for granted’ and yet still feel down, and I think one doesn’t preclude the other (not that anyone above suggested it does, but I find it a common narrative that ‘gratitude’ is a cure of sorts for depression and feeling down. Oh please).

I remember back when I had my life-changing if not quite life-saving surgery, for years I felt worse than ever. My family told me I turned into a brat (largely accurate), I couldn’t cope with ‘oh god, this is how healthy people live, I’ve missed out on life, I’m behind on everything, life is even worse now than it was before the surgery, blah blah.’ This kind of thing eventually settles down, but I think an objective realisation that yes, the new me has it better than the old me, and yes, people at large have it better today than 100 years ago shouldn’t be expected to do as much for inner peace as it seems to be. It just really doesn’t make anything any better, if you think about it. If anything, it’s a light self-guilt-trip because how dare you feel down when you’re suddenly healthy or have electricity unlike your unfortunate ancestors?! I just don’t think it’s a productive framework, personally.

FilmBuff

07-06-24, 10:40 AM

"I cried because I didn't have shoes, until I saw the man who had no feet"

-old proverb

AgrippinaX

07-06-24, 12:52 PM

"I cried because I didn't have shoes, until I saw the man who had no feet"

-old proverb

This is an incredibly reductive perspective. I was thinking of a version of this proverb myself, I think an Indian version that had ‘if you’re miserable, buy a goat, get rid of the goat, feel better’. But frankly life at times is a bit too complex for proverbs.

Edit: apparently what I’m referencing is some kind of arcane software dev joke. Heard it from my oldest brother, so possible, I guess. But I thought it was older than that and the one I remember definitely had a goat, not a duck.

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/347808/is-there-an-english-equivalent-to-get-rid-of-the-goat

FromBeyond

07-06-24, 04:56 PM

If the world was less terrible would that make you more personally happy?

I'm pretty sure it would for me yeah to a degree and for many others.

Yoda

07-06-24, 05:59 PM

My guess is it would be a very small degree.

The question could just as easily be reframed: how can someone remain sad with all the good and beauty in the world?

Happiness and contentedness are not primarily circumstantial, I don't think, at least outside of the extremes. They're dispositions that are usually pretty resilient in the face of those circumstances, whatever they are.

KeyserCorleone

07-06-24, 06:04 PM

I shall now quote one of my favorite characters from one of the very few anthro comics I read:

"Pick some people you love and support them, I guess."

Mr Minio

07-06-24, 06:37 PM

The question could just as easily be reframed: how can someone remain sad with all the good and beauty in the world? Like what and where? One has to really try hard and pretend to be happy-go-lucky to say this.

Yoda

07-06-24, 06:39 PM

Like what and where? One has to really try hard and pretend to be happy-go-lucky to say this.
What a strange question from someone who comes on this site every single day to tell us that we're all missing out on the exquisite beauty of one piece of art or another.

There are literally billions of acts of good will every single day (not an exaggeration) to say nothing of the inherent beauty of huge swaths of existence. Every stroll in the park is filled with more than you could count in a lifetime.

This question should never be answered with granularity because the examples are so frequent that, if someone is genuinely asking, they must first fail to possess the capacity to notice it, I guess, or else have some untenably high threshold for what might qualify, in which case examples would be useless anyway.

Mr Minio

07-06-24, 06:43 PM

Yeah, happy-go-lucky "I lied to myself life is positive just because the alternative is horrible" checks out.

Yoda

07-06-24, 06:47 PM

An even stranger response than the first, given that the question was not "is life positive in a purely binary sense?" And noting the arbitrary framing of the question doesn't imply it is.

You're obviously bringing lots of unstated assumptions (and undefined terms) to these questions.

Mr Minio

07-06-24, 06:54 PM

I think it's a matter of one outweighing the other. You've got the beauty of a stroll in the park and then you have thousands dying horrifying deaths in Ukraine and Gaza.

Yoda

07-06-24, 07:11 PM

Yes, like most issues, it's pretty easy to make one side sound silly if you pit your best counterexample against something superficial, even if an advocate for the other side would never offer it up as if it were equivalent.

It's also easy to fall into cheap demagoguery by just listing horrible things, but that doesn't really address the extremely heady philosophical questions that actually underpin all this, like whether existence is intrinsically good, or whether an entire life would be better not lived if it ends in violence.

Tough questions, all, and none of them are really being engaged with, that I can see. They certainly aren't addressed by saying "suffering exists, therefore everything is terrible."

But all of this is broader than the question actually posed in the OP. The answer to that is that happiness and unhappiness have a tenuous relationship, at best, to the broader state of the world. The unhappiness someone seemingly feels at the existence of suffering/evil/whatever often exists independent of it, and in fact is the thing causing them to fixate on it. It is a preexisting disposition you bring to circumstance, not a reaction to that circumstance.

beelzebubble

07-06-24, 07:13 PM

I’m mostly happy and content. It certainly helps that I’m not in the middle of a war. Lucky me. The thing is I should not be happy. I have depression and autism. I have spent decades in misery. Not understanding why I was so miserable. But at this stage of the game, I have meds, a pretty good knowledge of human behavior and a damn good mask. Life is a struggle and it’s your job to find out what works for you. Good luck and quit cherry-picking from other people’s arguments. It smacks of disingenuousness.

Mr Minio

07-06-24, 07:48 PM

Yes, like most issues, it's pretty easy to make one side sound silly if you pit your best counterexample against something superficial, even if an advocate for the other side would never offer it up as if it were equivalent. You did talk about a stroll in the park, though. But yeah, give me one greatest, most amazing, "happy" thing that neutralizes horrific wars.

like whether existence is intrinsically good In all fairness, I'd say existence is neutral in itself and it is many factors and even our subjective interpretations of these factors that decide whether or not it's good or not. If you pose this as "is it better to exist than not exist", I'd say it's better to exist 99% of the time, but I'm not sure if that's what you mean by existence being "intrinsically good".

or whether an entire life would be better not lived if it ends in violence Too many factors come into play here, but one's life would have to be really terrible (and short) to deem it not worth living IMO. However, saying something like "he lived a beautiful life and died a horrible death doesn't help the family of the deceased very much, now does it? One could argue that if the person lived a good life (= was a good person), the horrific death feels even more terrible/unjust.

"suffering exists, therefore everything is terrible." More like "if so much suffering exists how do you stay happy by focusing on the happiness even if the there's as much happiness as there is suffering?".

The answer to that is that happiness and unhappiness have a tenuous relationship, at best, to the broader state of the world. The unhappiness someone seemingly feels at the existence of suffering/evil/whatever often exists independent of it, and in fact is the thing causing them to fixate on it. It is a preexisting disposition you bring to circumstance, not a reaction to that circumstance. I don't know, man. If your whole family dies in an instant, then your unhappiness is inherently tied to the existence of the suffering/evil/whatever. If somebody you knew to be a "saint" died an unjust, horrible death whereas somebody who hurts others enjoys their life in luxury, then your unhappiness seems to be fair, eh? Or should you just brush it off as "sh*t happens"/it's God's plan and continue with your life? If so, how many times before you start thinking that maybe the things in the world are indeed that terrible and this makes it really hard to stay happy?

John McClane

07-06-24, 08:07 PM

As long as I got socks without holes, and bread without mites. Life can always get worse. I suspect I will witness global collapse in my lifetime, but I’m putting all my money on being wrong

Mr Minio

07-06-24, 08:17 PM

As long as I got socks without holes, and bread without mites. Life can always get worse. I suspect I will witness global collapse in my lifetime, but I’m putting all my money on being wrong My approach exactly, but isn't this lying to yourself that you aren't on a lone raft in the middle of the ocean as long as you're not drowning?

John McClane

07-06-24, 08:27 PM

My approach exactly, but isn't this lying to yourself that you aren't on a lone raft in the middle of the ocean as long as you're not drowning?collectively, as a species, i don’t hold much hope for us given our consumption rates. eventually there will be places on Earth that will be entirely inhospitable without continual access to AC. that’s a precarious way to live. an other species would either just lay down and die or migrate. so we’re either really smart or really dumb. :D

Citizen Rules

07-06-24, 09:22 PM

collectively, as a species, i don’t hold much hope for us given our consumption rates. eventually there will be places on Earth that will be entirely inhospitable without continual access to AC... Yeah, like my car with broken AC or my house with no AC. When it's close to 100 degrees and no AC, it's hot!...And yet I'm still happy:)

John McClane

07-06-24, 09:35 PM

Yeah, like my car with broken AC or my house with no AC. When it's close to 100 degrees and no AC, it's hot!...And yet I'm still happy:)yeah, but i’m sure you don’t live in a place that is projected to see temps of 120ish in the coming decades.

Citizen Rules

07-06-24, 09:43 PM

yeah, but i’m sure you don’t live in a place that is projected to see temps of 120ish in the coming decades.Who knows how hot it will get here. We made it to 103 in Western Washington last year which is just insane. 90 is usually the highest we go.

Yoda

07-09-24, 12:10 PM

See, that's an actual reply that takes the issue seriously. Thank you for that. Why do we have to go through the rigamarole of a few flippant non-sequiturs when we could just go straight to this?

You did talk about a stroll in the park, though.
In response to your (frankly still perplexing) question for examples of good things. Which is a different thing than saying "there are good things but they pale in comparison to the bad ones." If you had said that I would have said something else in response.

But yeah, give me one greatest, most amazing, "happy" thing that neutralizes horrific wars.
Holding your child in your arms? Marrying someone you adore? Being moved to tears by a piece of art? This question has no answer and an infinite number of answers. And no one answer is really sufficient anyway because you're weighing the totality of existence, so it's cumulative. It's "sometimes wars happen" vs. "every good thing that has ever happened to you." You're asking for the readout on a scale the size of the cosmos.

In all fairness, I'd say existence is neutral in itself and it is many factors and even our subjective interpretations of these factors that decide whether or not it's good or not. If you pose this as "is it better to exist than not exist", I'd say it's better to exist 99% of the time, but I'm not sure if that's what you mean by existence being "intrinsically good".
It means almost exactly that: it is better to exist than not exist. To complain about the nature of our existence is to desire better, but is not generally an argument that we have been wronged in some way.

Too many factors come into play here, but one's life would have to be really terrible (and short) to deem it not worth living IMO.
Precisely.

However, saying something like "he lived a beautiful life and died a horrible death doesn't help the family of the deceased very much, now does it? One could argue that if the person lived a good life (= was a good person), the horrific death feels even more terrible/unjust.
Feels, yes. But is?

That's kind of the problem here: it's very easy to make an emotionally compelling argument. Much harder to make an intellectually compelling one. Grief overwhelms sense.

I don't know, man. If your whole family dies in an instant, then your unhappiness is inherently tied to the existence of the suffering/evil/whatever. If somebody you knew to be a "saint" died an unjust, horrible death whereas somebody who hurts others enjoys their life in luxury, then your unhappiness seems to be fair, eh? Or should you just brush it off as "sh*t happens"/it's God's plan and continue with your life? If so, how many times before you start thinking that maybe the things in the world are indeed that terrible and this makes it really hard to stay happy?
Perhaps we can construct elaborate, comically rare scenarios where circumstance is clearly responsible for happiness/unhappiness. But if we're having this discussion in a first world country on an internet forum, we're part of the 99% of people that fall outside of those extremes, and for whom their level of happiness largely exists independent of the state of the world.

Captain Steel

07-14-24, 04:42 PM

"I cried because I didn't have shoes, until I saw the man who had no feet"

-old proverb

I remember a stand-up comedian doing a riff using this proverb: he told how when he was a kid he wanted a pair of Nike Air Jordan sneakers more than anything else in the world. All he could think about was those Nike Air Jordans, but neither he nor his family had enough money to afford them. He begged and begged his mother, but she said they couldn't afford them. Then his mom pointed out to him a boy about his same age sitting in a wheel chair - and the boy had no feet. The comedian said he felt really bad at that point... because... wouldn't you know it... tied to the handles of that wheelchair were a brand new pair of Nike Air Jordans! :D

FilmBuff

07-14-24, 04:52 PM

https://j.gifs.com/1RLLwA.gif

AgrippinaX

07-15-24, 07:21 AM

I remember a stand-up comedian doing a riff using this proverb: he told how when he was a kid he wanted a pair of Nike Air Jordan sneakers more than anything else in the world. All he could think about was those Nike Air Jordans, but neither he nor his family had enough money to afford them. He begged and begged his mother, but she said they couldn't afford them. Then his mom pointed out to him a boy about his same age sitting in a wheel chair - and the boy had no feet. The comedian said he felt really bad at that point... because... wouldn't you know it... tied to the handles of that wheelchair were a brand new pair of Nike Air Jordans! :D

Beats the original version, in my view. I’ve always found these proverbs invariably baffling. All they’re saying is ‘it could be way worse for you’, which, I would argue depressed people/those who are feeling down are already aware that everything largely sucks, thank you very much. Why would you encourage someone who is already down to dwell on even more depressing possibilities?