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Shogun by James Clavell is my favorite book. I only read it because a friend urged me too, and I didn't expect much because I thought Samurai were already a trodden path with all the martial arts movies I'd seen.
Mind-blown. The first time I looked at what page I was on was around 200, and I am not a speed reader. For those of you old enough you might remember an old TV limited series adaptation with Richard Chamberlain. If you haven't seen it then be thankful because it was cringeworthy. To be fair it wasn't even possible for tv back then to be able to tackle a storyline with such depth, sudden horror, and intrigue.
I'm watching the new adaptation now, and amazed like I was when first reading it. Today adaptations have come a long way, but this one seems even more spot-on than usual. The recent adaptation of The Stand (another fav) takes a far backseat to what Shoguns accomplishing. This is art, and yet pleasing to a wide audience too. I encourage you to go into it with a clear mind, and enjoy.
Saw the first episode. Yeah, it's as good as everyone says. Excited to see the rest.
doubledenim
03-01-24, 01:22 PM
Lot of GoT comparisons being thrown around
They're fairly apt. Except in terms of seating arrangements. If GoT were Shogun it would be about people wrestling for control of the Iron Floor.
I also thought the credit intros beginning in episode 2 were reminiscent of GoT and Westworld.
Oh, and they cast Mariko perfectly. The actress is doing a better job than what I envisioned the character being.
GulfportDoc
03-01-24, 08:34 PM
I recall the original 1980 miniseries, and thought it was good. Of course 44 years later they could presumably make a much better rendering of the novel.
Is it true they story a female samurai? That would have been impossible in 16th Century Japan.
WrinkledMind
03-15-24, 03:44 AM
I haven't watched the original or read the book, but I am loving everything about this series so far.
Is it true they story a female samurai? That would have been impossible in 16th Century Japan.
As far as I know, there were female samurai/warriors in Japan during and before the 16th century. It was at the beginning of the 17th when that changed.
TroyMcCloud
03-15-24, 11:07 AM
I will read that book.
GulfportDoc
03-15-24, 08:35 PM
As far as I know, there were female samurai/warriors in Japan during and before the 16th century. It was at the beginning of the 17th when that changed.
I'd be interested to see a source on that. To my knowledge it wouldn't even have been thinkable to have a female warrior in ancient Japan, which is the way it should be today everywhere.
I found a bunch of sources with just a quick, cursory Googling.
I actually would've replied in the same vein sooner but I was in a hurry and thought there was a tiny chance the objection was just to it happening during the time period in question, not to it ever happening at all.
WrinkledMind
03-20-24, 07:41 AM
I just looked up & read up on seppuku. Alongwith with the pictures.
Highly NOT recommended.
Meanwhile, the series continues to be entertaining.
I'd be interested to see a source on that. To my knowledge it wouldn't even have been thinkable to have a female warrior in ancient Japan, which is the way it should be today everywhere.
It was true that women could be Samurai. It wasn't a title given to just sword weilders, but anyone that lived by the code, Bushido. They would commit sepuku if dishonored and permitted too.
https://www.travelcontentcreators.com/female-samurai/
https://japanfans.nl/en/bushido/
Hoping everyone is enjoying the series. I certainly am. A huge book I read twice long ago, and still is my favorite to this day. Since I already know how the story unfolds I'm slowly watching the series, only an episode a week, savoring it. I'm 2 episodes behind, and so far it's the best book adaptation I've ever seen.
Stirchley
04-03-24, 02:10 PM
I'm watching the new adaptation now, and amazed like I was when first reading it. Today adaptations have come a long way, but this one seems even more spot-on than usual. The recent adaptation of The Stand (another fav) takes a far backseat to what Shoguns accomplishing. This is art, and yet pleasing to a wide audience too. I encourage you to go into it with a clear mind, and enjoy.
Someone asked me today if I’m watching it. I’m not though he said it’s excellent.
GulfportDoc
04-03-24, 08:16 PM
It was true that women could be Samurai. It wasn't a title given to just sword weilders, but anyone that lived by the code, Bushido. They would commit sepuku if dishonored and permitted too.
https://www.travelcontentcreators.com/female-samurai/
https://japanfans.nl/en/bushido/
...
Cheers, Tongo. I never would have guessed that.
Someone asked me today if I’m watching it. I’m not though he said it’s excellent.
Please give it a chance, one episode should be all you'd need to know.
Stirchley
04-05-24, 12:48 PM
Please give it a chance, one episode should be all you'd need to know.
Is there a lead actor whom I may know?
Hiroyuki Sanada will probably be recognizable. But the lack of genuine stars/highly recognizable actors is a credit to the show, frankly.
Thought thered be some commentary after this latest episode. Hopefully this isnt a sign few people are watching Shogun. For me it's right up there with the first season of Westworld and True Detective.
I'm just a few episodes behind. It's a weird mix of "very very good" but "not the kind of thing I feel the need to watch immediately." It's possible this is more about me than the show. :shrug:
Last episode of Shogun has aired. They did an excellent job, there were a few tweaks, but smart ones. This just makes me want to play Ghost of Tsushima that much more. Hi-yah!
WrinkledMind
04-26-24, 04:37 PM
Absolutely loved this show. That final episode was so satisfying.
The politics & dialogues were up there with the early season of GOT.
MovieGal
09-18-24, 10:45 PM
Love this show and it won 18 Emmys
Stirchley
10-16-24, 12:09 PM
Gave it my best shot. Watched 3 & 1/2 episodes & bailed out. It’s just not for me.
Gave it my best shot. Watched 3 & 1/2 episodes & bailed out. It’s just not for me.
Yeah I was surprised by some peoples reaction to it. Yoda felt the same way. One of those times I think something will be universally adored, but in reality nothing ever is. There are people that dislike Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, etc... oh well lol
Huh? I watched all of it and admired it greatly.
I remember thinking (saying?) I found it less compulsively watchable than I'd hoped (but even that got better as it went) but it's very good and I'd highly recommend it to anyone.
Huh? I watched all of it and admired it greatly.
I remember thinking (saying?) I found it less compulsively watchable than I'd hoped (but even that got better as it went) but it's very good and I'd highly recommend it to anyone.
Oh! My bad! SORRY :blush:
Yeah I must have read too much into your post.
Im really hoping they do Tai-Pan next.
Same character portrayed 44 years apart wins Golden Globes both times.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/shogun-anna-sawai-golden-globe-yoko-shimada-mariko-rcna186446
FilmBuff
01-07-25, 05:52 PM
That's pretty wild
MovieBuffering
02-04-25, 01:53 AM
Powered through it last weekend with the Hulu 3 day free trail. I thought it was very good. Anna Sawai is a stunning looking woman lol but her performance is just as stunning. She deserved all the awards she received. She was the stand out. Her and the Englishman's love interest was the most interesting part of the show imo. Everyone else were find to above fine but she was the true stand out. All the scheming over power was fine...I'd get lost in the weeds a bit but you get a feel for it until towards the back half of the season.
I guess there is a book and source material so possible they have enough for season 2...but I think they may have dropped the ball by putting it all on season 1. I can see this having the same fate as Homeland with me. I thought that season 1 was fantastic but season 2 I lost interest quickly and never revisited it.
I just feel like it's a huge mistake killing off Anna's character at the end of season 1. If it were a movie hell yeah...because it did pack a helluva punch, very earned. The best part of the whole season was Anna's character and I will dare say the whole series whenever it ends. Her character was absolutely fantastic and it made the Englishman's character more interesting. Their different world views being drawn together and the push and pull of that. I think that's why I love Out Of Sight so much...they aren't suppose to be attracted to each other...but they still are. When the story went into the power struggle it felt more tedious than the relationship stuff.
I think they are going regret killing her off like Homeland did their most interesting character. This show just didn't have a plethora of characters introduced like GOT did to be able to off some of their key players early imo. You built the first season heavily around Markio and now that rather large chess piece is gone. Plus they showed the Englishman old in his bed in England...you know he makes it back to England, his life is no longer endangered...then the Lord T guy pretty much divulges his power play for the next season at the end. Why should I be interested in a season 2...my favorite character is sayonara, the Englishman makes it home and I know the outline of Lord T's plan.
Not sure...people swear by the books so maybe they got it covered but I won't be leaping asap at season 2.
Dear lord she is stunning. ❤️
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMmE5ZTljYzctMmQxNC00ZWY5LTk2NTYtNmRhMzlmYjA1OTBmXkEyXkFqcGc@._V1_.jpg
Powered through it last weekend with the Hulu 3 day free trail. I thought it was very good. Anna Sawai is a stunning looking woman lol but her performance is just as stunning. She deserved all the awards she received. She was the stand out. Her and the Englishman's love interest was the most interesting part of the show imo. Everyone else were find to above fine but she was the true stand out. All the scheming over power was fine...I'd get lost in the weeds a bit but you get a feel for it until towards the back half of the season.
I guess there is a book and source material so possible they have enough for season 2...but I think they may have dropped the ball by putting it all on season 1. I can see this having the same fate as Homeland with me. I thought that season 1 was fantastic but season 2 I lost interest quickly and never revisited it.
I just feel like it's a huge mistake killing off Anna's character at the end of season 1. If it were a movie hell yeah...because it did pack a helluva punch, very earned. The best part of the whole season was Anna's character and I will dare say the whole series whenever it ends. Her character was absolutely fantastic and it made the Englishman's character more interesting. Their different world views being drawn together and the push and pull of that. I think that's why I love Out Of Sight so much...they aren't suppose to be attracted to each other...but they still are. When the story went into the power struggle it felt more tedious than the relationship stuff.
I think they are going regret killing her off like Homeland did their most interesting character. This show just didn't have a plethora of characters introduced like GOT did to be able to off some of their key players early imo. You built the first season heavily around Markio and now that rather large chess piece is gone. Plus they showed the Englishman old in his bed in England...you know he makes it back to England, his life is no longer endangered...then the Lord T guy pretty much divulges his power play for the next season at the end. Why should I be interested in a season 2...my favorite character is sayonara, the Englishman makes it home and I know the outline of Lord T's plan.
Not sure...people swear by the books so maybe they got it covered but I won't be leaping asap at season 2.
Dear lord she is stunning. ❤️
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMmE5ZTljYzctMmQxNC00ZWY5LTk2NTYtNmRhMzlmYjA1OTBmXkEyXkFqcGc@._V1_.jpg
Yeah she definitely got MVP honors. Nailed every quality described in the novel to-a-T.
This is a standalone season. There wont be a season 2. Shogun wasnt a series.
I agree Anna Sawai is good in "Shogun", but I still feel like this is a grossly overrated show. I genuinely don't understand why people seem to love it, and why it is getting so much awards attention, but like we discussed before, not every show will appeal to every person, and that's ok. I still have 2 episodes to go, and it's been months, and I still haven't gotten to them. I will eventually finish it!
MovieBuffering
02-05-25, 12:23 AM
Yeah she definitely got MVP honors. Nailed every quality described in the novel to-a-T.
This is a standalone season. There wont be a season 2. Shogun wasnt a series.
Think they already green lit a season 2. Even if not too much money now after their big emmy night not to.
If that's all they have to go with on source material I am definitely not going spend time on season 2. Most of these people are really good at adapting source material...it's when they get left to their own devices is when it crumbles...i.e GOTs. As I said up there in the spoilers I was already skeptical but I am down right dubious if there is no more source material.
That's why I'll always give the Breaking Bad universe the GOAT designation in TV...hell in all of drama media Movies/TV. 2 amazing shows and I thought a pretty good movie...all completely original with no source material. That gives it an edge to me over it all. That is a talent above all these other shows/movies and to do it over a decade and a half. Sustained. Sheesh.
MovieBuffering
02-05-25, 12:30 AM
I agree Anna Sawai is good in "Shogun", but I still feel like this is a grossly overrated show. I genuinely don't understand why people seem to love it, and why it is getting so much awards attention, but like we discussed before, not every show will appeal to every person, and that's ok. I still have 2 episodes to go, and it's been months, and I still haven't gotten to them. I will eventually finish it!
I get it. I thought the political/power stuff got a little silly and convenient for the main Lord guy. As I said it was sort of a back drop to me for the more interesting dynamics of the Mariko and Englishman's relationship. Where as Game Of Thornes political/power narratives was just as strong as the characters (for most of the show).
I'd recommend finishing the last 2 episodes. Mariko's character really freaking takes flight to elite status.
Stirchley
02-05-25, 12:32 PM
I agree Anna Sawai is good in "Shogun", but I still feel like this is a grossly overrated show. I genuinely don't understand why people seem to love it, and why it is getting so much awards attention, but like we discussed before, not every show will appeal to every person, and that's ok. I still have 2 episodes to go, and it's been months, and I still haven't gotten to them. I will eventually finish it!
Don’t think I even finished the pilot. Shogun does nothing for me.
Sarai is beautiful & she’s very good in Pachinko, the South Korean series, which is much better than Shogun IMO.
I finally finished this! Since they killed off one of my favorite characters, and even with that character I didn't love the first season, it's unlikely that I'll be watching future seasons.
MovieGal
02-23-25, 06:39 PM
I finally finished this! Since they killed off one of my favorite characters, and even with that character I didn't love the first season, it's unlikely that I'll be watching future seasons.
They were only doing one season from what I understand.
I wish there was more.
It's likely there will be a second season.
https://variety.com/2025/tv/news/hiroyuki-sanada-shogun-season-2-shooting-fall-fx-1236301526/
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