Documentary HOF Part 2

[rauldc14]

https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/ad4/d66/1fbf8a548f08a37a28a8b81c7fdbd1a71f-12-documentaries-of-century.2x.rsocial.w600.jpg

It's been quite a while since the Hall has dug into documentaries so let's do it again!

Deadline will be decided based off of how many nominations we get!

Hope to see some good ones here!

Participants:
Rauldc- Nom Sent
Sean- Nom Sent
Siddon- Nom Sent
Phoenix- Nom Sent
Keyser- Nom Sent
Torgo- Nom Sent
Beelzebubble- Nom Sent
Matt- nom sent

Place de La Republique (1974, Directed by Louis Malle)

Mr. Death (1999, Directed by Errol Morris)

Capturing the Friedmans (2003, Directed by Andrew Jarecki)

King of Kong (2007, Directed by Seth Gordon)

World of Darkness (2017, Directed by Giles Alderson)

Won't You Be My Neighbor (2018, Directed by Morgan Neville)

Minding the Gap (2018, Directed by Bing Liu)

By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent (2020, Directed by Rick Worley)

Reviews

Seanc LIST SENT
Minding the Gap (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2393618#post2393618)
By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2393933#post2393933)
World of Darkness (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2393954#post2393954)
Mr. Death (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2394105#post2394105)
Won't You Be My Neighbor (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2395986#post2395986)
King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2396211#post2396211)
Capturing the Friedmans (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2395987#post2395987)
Place De La Republique (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2396539#post2396539)


Siddon
King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2393669#post2393669)
By the Way, Woody Allen is innocent (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2393729#post2393729)
World of Darkness (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2393745#post2393745)
Capturing the Friedmans (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2393758#post2393758)
Minding the Gap (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2410422#post2410422)
Mr. Death (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2410436#post2410436)

Rauldc LIST SENT
Place De La Republique (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2393812#post2393812)
By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2394964#post2394964)
King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2396245#post2396245)
World of Darkness (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2397830#post2397830)
Mr. Death (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2401081#post2401081)
Capturing the Friedmans (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2404395#post2404395)
Won't You Be My Neighbor (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2408011#post2408011)
Minding the Gap (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2409389#post2409389)

Keyser
Won't You Be My Neighbor (https://www.movieforums.com/community/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2393830)
Mr. Death (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2406341#post2406341)
Capturing the Friedmans (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2406660#post2406660)
King of Kong (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2409588#post2409588)
World of Darkness (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2414055#post2414055)

Torgo LIST SENT
Won't You Be My Neighbor (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2393963#post2393963)
Capturing the Friedmans (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2394822#post2394822)
Mr. Death (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2395370#post2395370)
By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2396234#post2396234)
King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2398210#post2398210)
Minding the Gap (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2398696#post2398696)
World of Darkness (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2400640#post2400640)

Phoenix LIST SENT
Capturing the Friedmans (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2394322#post2394322)
King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2394548#post2394548)
By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2395215#post2395215)
Mr. Death (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2395482#post2395482)
World of Darkness (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2398180#post2398180)
Minding the Gap (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2398786#post2398786)
Won't You Be My Neighbor (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2401894#post2401894)

Beelzebubble- LIST SENT
Mr. Death, King of Kong, and By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2396680#post2396680)
The rest of Beelzebubbles Watches (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=2408983#post2408983)

[seanc]

Let’s Doc it up

[rauldc14]

This is what all the cool kids will be doing this summer.

[PHOENIX74]

Yep!

[KeyserCorleone]

This is what all the cool kids will be doing this summer.


Mr Ratburn, 2023.

[rauldc14]

We are up to 6 total noms. 7 or 8 would be pretty splendid!

[rauldc14]

Looking at Monday for the unveil!

[KeyserCorleone]

Looking at Monday for the unveil!


Suck it, Garfield.

[beelzebubble]

We are up to 6 total noms. 7 or 8 would be pretty splendid!
I am in. I've got to give my nomination some thought. Will send it tomorrow.

[Torgo]

Looking at Monday for the unveil!Woohoo!
Any interesting stats/trends/etc. in the noms yet?

[KeyserCorleone]

Woohoo!
Any interesting stats/trends/etc. in the noms yet?


Three of them have at least one shot involving pickles.

[Torgo]

Three of them have at least one shot involving pickles.Monday can't come soon enough.

[rauldc14]

I am in. I've got to give my nomination some thought. Will send it tomorrow.

Cool to see you join us again. Look forward to the nom

[rauldc14]

Last call! For tomorrow we shall begin!

[matt72582]

How many do we send in the list? And to who?

[Allaby]

How many do we send in the list? And to who?

You pm your 1 nomination to Rauldc.

[rauldc14]

You pm your 1 nomination to Rauldc.

What he said.

[rauldc14]

Nom announcement in about 12 minutes

[rauldc14]

Place de La Republique (1974, Directed by Louis Malle)

Mr. Death (1999, Directed by Errol Morris)

Capturing the Friedmans (2003, Directed by Andrew Jarecki)

King of Kong (2007, Directed by Seth Gordon)

World of Darkness (2017, Directed by Giles Alderson)

Won't You Be My Neighbor (2018, Directed by Morgan Neville)

Minding the Gap (2018, Directed by Bing Liu)

By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent (2020, Directed by Rick Worley)

[Citizen Rules]

Won't You Be My Neighbor (2018)...I seen this right after watching the Tom Hanks movie, A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood. The movie was mediocre but the doc Won't You Be My Neighbor (2018) was one of the most uplifting films I've ever seen...and I did not grow up watching Mr Rogers but after watching the doc I'm a big fan of his!


By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent (2020)...I might watch this one as I'm interested in the subject matter.

[PHOENIX74]

The only one out of that group of noms that I've seen before (aside from my nomination) is King of Kong - I've watched it twice and have no problem at all going for a third watch as I quite like it. I'm not sure whether I should look all of the nominations up and comment on them, or come at each one completely cold and unaware of what's to hit me.

[seanc]

Really looking forward to digging into these. Some pretty heavy hitters that I have seen but will pleased to watch again. Mixed in with a couple here I have never even heard of. This should be fun. I started with my nom, because why not.

93222

Minding The Gap is a wonderful film made lovingly by one of its protagonists. I think it takes great care to make stories that are heartbreaking also uplifting and life affirming. The fact that this was done by a first time, and very young, director is astounding. This is just the type of slice of life doc that I am always here for. Great film. Great rewatch. Hope everyone enjoys it.

[Siddon]

https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/msnbc/Components/Photos/070815/070815_BillyMitchellPacMan_hmed_2p.jpg
The King of Kong:A Fistfull of Quarters (2007)

This is one of those "documentaries" that was actually a crime passed off as a documentary. This is the story of a group of nerds who compete in old arcade games for high scores and pride. On the surface it's a touching thrilling little character study of a pair of men. The villain Billy Mitchell an 80's wunderkind who is a D list celebrity and Steve Weibe a challenger...an out of work every-man who never succeeded at anything inspite of being a master of several skills.

Now while on the surface this is a story of two men who enjoy Donkey Kong years later we find out that this is actually a scam. Walter Day is the man who runs this contest for the high scores of these games and it turns out what he was really doing was lying, cheating and inflating and eliminating scores to make his arcade business more profitable for a sale. It's an amazing crime the you don't find out in the documentary but rather what happens in the 10 years post. But the actions manage to elevate the subject matter...this is fraud or a Kabuki show dressed up as a documentary

We never found out which of the participants are in on the scam and which are just pathetic hanger oners. but still it's a great documentary and I hope we get a sequel.


B+

[seanc]

Do you have any article or you tube links for what you are talking about?

[Siddon]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5yp0y85ZNg8/maxresdefault.jpg
By the Way Woody Allen is Innocent (2020)

This is a series of short subject think pieces on the Woody Allen case brought together to run at nearly 2 and a half hours. The series is riveting as the viewer starts off at point A the crime and moves all the way through the 30 years to find a different result to point Z (the media). While the story has been retold thousands of times this is the first comprehensive case for Woody against Mia and it's frankly much more compelling and based on facts than the series of documentaries and interviews given post #metoo.

The film excels by using humor, music, and archival clips to bring the viewer up to speed on just what the case is. Many of the facts in the film are not debatable and the film puts on a spotlight on how poor journalism has created this culture of cancelling and de-platforming people over wants rather than needs.

It's a masterpiece of journalism that hits you with a series of gut punches. When looking at the case dispassionately you realize the effect that lies and power of the media have over our day to day lives. This film didn't get a physical release, it wasn't given award recognition, it wasn't judged as other documentaries were so in a lot of ways it hits harder.

The film concludes with the heartbreaking realization that by exiling Woody Allen that we've lost the director who has provided the world with the best female performances. That this low budget filmmaker who provided hundreds of great performances with a constant stream of small market films is gone thanks to what can best be described as a vendetta.


A

[Siddon]

Place de La Republique (1974, Directed by Louis Malle)



I could use a link for this one

[Siddon]

https://flixable.b-cdn.net/amazon-prime-video/small/de/world-of-darkness.png

A World of Darkness (2017)

Yeah I don't know about this one, A world of Darkness focuses on a vampire style table top game and the culture around it...until it doesn't and focuses on the business trials and tribulations of the company until it doesn't and makes a case that vampire and werewolf film and media were ripoffs of this game.

Point being the story is kinda all over the place, the narrative never comes together and it feels like the focus is on the creators while ignoring the major plot points of the story. The TV had it's lead die doesn't get a mention, they sued the fan club(really should be a major point of the film) glossed over for the videogames.

This movie felt almost like a series of infomercials for someone to consume the products. I think the film would have been better had they just focused on the larping community and the Vampire murder not bog the film down with it's business history. I also felt like the film had a false ending and that it's run time was almost padded out.


C-

[Siddon]

https://filmgrimoire.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/friedmans-2.jpg

Capturing the Friedmans (2003)

The last film I watched didn't get the duel narratives right...this one did. Capturing the Friedman's is a story of the collapse of a family and of a pedophile and the crimes that sent him and his son away. The case is fascinating because I don't believe you can sodomize dozens of boys without leaving any physical evidence. However I do believe that molestation likely occurred and Arnold Friedman was a monster.

The film works because the viewer understands a clear frame work of the story. It's not the issue of innocence or guilt but the degree in which the guilt occurs. The filmmakers also do an excellent job putting the people out and showing them for who they are. The biggest monster in the film might be the mother who is essence railroaded her son to jail so she could move on with her life. Never trust women I tells ya.

But yeah this is a great film, it's very well paced you never feel the runtime and you are left with certain questions about Jessie not so much with his parents. This was a great nom...might win the whole thing.

A

[seanc]

I’m going into the Woody doc with an open mind but feel the need to point out that in his late 80’s Allen has a movie coming out this year, with his last one being 2020. Maybe he wasn’t cancelled? Maybe cancel culture doesn’t work? Maybe cancel culture is a bit of a figment of our imagination? Whatever your answer, and whatever the truth I would say claiming the world has been robbed of great female performances because of the allegations is downright laughable.

[rauldc14]

Place de la Republique

https://p5.storage.canalblog.com/53/24/110219/126406842.png

The overall format for this film is genius. To be at a certain place in Paris and just continually watch and film people makes for quite an entertaining set up. And it really does work here. I just never knew from person to person what kind of miniature show we would have next. It works great for me because I am a people person. I think a modern version of someone doing this would be really interesting too, or maybe it's already been done. There's some unique interviews here, but yet there's also a few I'd say I wouldn't have let make the cut because they weren't as interesting as what I would have hoped for. I still give Malle a lot of props for putting this all together.

3.5

[KeyserCorleone]

Just gonna start with my review for my nom.


Won't You Be My Neighbor

I don't know exactly what it was that convinced me to watch this. It wasn't family, and it wasn't nostalgia. Maybe I was wondering what I had lost. And god, was this enlightening. This movie gave me a whole new respect for Fred Rogers, a man who had nothing but love in his heart. But what really gripped me was the scenes that detailed the ways that he explained adult subjects like war and death to children. I can't even begin to describe how many things my heart felt at that one time. It was like it was torn in multiple pieces and sown back together with a damn kid's song. I have NEVER felt like that before. I chose this documentary as a nom specifically because I absolutely adored it.

rating_5

[Siddon]

I’m going into the Woody doc with an open mind but feel the need to point out that in his late 80’s Allen has a movie coming out this year, with his last one being 2020. Maybe he wasn’t cancelled? Maybe cancel culture doesn’t work? Maybe cancel culture is a bit of a figment of our imagination? Whatever your answer, and whatever the truth I would say claiming the world has been robbed of great female performances because of the allegations is downright laughable.


Woody Allen has been making films for years...but the last film that's received a wide release it's been ten years. It was also the last film that recieved an Oscar (Blue Jasmine).

[seanc]

Woody Allen has been making films for years...but the last film that's received a wide release it's been ten years. It was also the last film that recieved an Oscar (Blue Jasmine).

Magic In the Moonlight, Irrational Man, Cafe Society didn’t get theatrical releases? That doesn’t sound right, but even giving that he’s still making movies with stars and Amazon has funded a bunch of his later stuff I believe. Doesn’t read like a cancelled man.

[rauldc14]

The Woody one will be my next watch.

[seanc]

BTW, Woody Allen Is Innocent:

93247

I think this one could generate a lot of discussion, but I think probably most people may be discussed out on this topic. I will be here for any discussions that pop up. What I'm not going to do is shout either "Woody is innocent" or "Woody is guilty". What I think the doc does a good job of showing, probably accidentally, is that doing that has not only been done for the past 40 years, but it's also a fool's errand.

Full disclosure, I am a fan of Allen as a director but I also find his behavior quite creepy. Yes, I know Soon-Yi is not his daughter. I still find that relationship pretty disturbing. In his art his relationship with women is pretty divisive in my mind. On one hand he does write very strong female characters. On the other hand there always feels, on some level, that those women exist to be sexual conquests for the male characters. Manhattan is an especially problematic movie for me in light of Allen's relationship with Soon-Yi. I know it was written many years prior but I do think the reflection of Allen's view of late teen women is pretty clear.

As far as the actually movie goes, it certainly just feels like an info dump to me. It wasn't particularly hard to watch, even at 2 1/2 hours, but it never really engaged me in the way I like the best docs to. It felt very much like the type of you tube video I don't watch very often: "Here's my opinion, and it is absolute truth, look no further". It feels very much like the social media nonsense I try not to engage in, or I will go bananas.

I definitely will be interested to see how everyone else responds to this, and for that reason I am glad it was nominated. As far as being "good" or deserving to be in our hall of fame, I think not.

[seanc]

93250

Not my world but I like movies about fringe groups because I enjoy glimpses into what makes people tick. Very little of that here, but enough that I stayed engaged. Just not a whole lot to say about this one.

[Torgo]

Won't You Be My Neighbor? - 4

For the ways this documentary covers what Fred Rogers was like, what he believed in, the people he influenced and what his TV program was all about, it's as fulfilling of one about him I could hope for. I watched Mister Rogers' Neighborhood fairly often as a kid, and the movie's behind-the-scenes coverage does a good job at capturing its main appeals, not to mention makes me wish I watched it even more. Pointing out Rogers' use of silence and how he kept the show at the speed of life is enlightening - it's the kind of vibe ASMR fetishists are likely seeking - as is how it addresses the special way he communicated tragedies like the Challenger explosion and RFK, Jr. assassination to children. There's also his reaction to his "photography" prank, which gives welcome insight into his sense of humor.

I also like how the movie takes the time to explore Rogers' relationships with those who were fortunate enough to know him personally, especially Francois Clemmens and Jeff Erlanger, moments that I'll freely admit brought the tears. They were not tears of forced sentimentality, mind you, but ones brought on by the sincerity, purity of emotion and refreshing lack of irony of these moments. In short, it's a worthy tribute to a man who I'm not only very thankful was around during my lifetime, but also chose a profession that leveraged the best things about him and that made his chosen medium better than it was before. Oh, and it also deserves credit for taking the time to give rebuttals to misconceptions about his beliefs and in a way Fred Rogers would have approved.

[KeyserCorleone]

Place de La Republique (1974, Directed by Louis Malle)



English link please?

[rauldc14]

English link please?

I'm not sure if you have it, but it's on criterion.

[KeyserCorleone]

I'm not sure if you have it, but it's on criterion.


Isn't there a link I don't have to give credit card information for?

[Siddon]

I'm not sure if you have it, but it's on criterion.


Well that's nice and all but I don't have the Criterion channel. Now I tried downloading it off Pirate Bay but it's not moving.


So what are we going to do about this.

[KeyserCorleone]

Well that's nice and all but I don't have the Criterion channel. Now I tried downloading it off Pirate Bay but it's not moving.


So what are we going to do about this.


I checked all the url's I could find by googling the name of the film (copy/pasted to avoid typos) and the domain name in their own quotations. Nothing came up except a bunch of "untitled" links with gibberish in the cache.

[Citizen Rules]

English link please?

Well that's nice and all but I don't have the Criterion channel. Now I tried downloading it off Pirate Bay but it's not moving.So what are we going to do about this. I have a link for Place de La Republique (1974). I have a link for an English subtitle file which you'll need unless you speak French. I will message both links to both of you.

[KeyserCorleone]

I have a link for Place de La Republique (1974). I have a link for an English subtitle file which you'll need unless you speak French. I will message both links to both of you.


FILE? I don't do downloads, even subtitles. I just got this computer and I'm not risking it. Plus, that Archive link is the reason I asked.

[Citizen Rules]

FILE? I don't do downloads, even subtitles. I just got this computer and I'm not risking it. Plus, that Archive link is the reason I asked.Oh well, that's what happens if you're stuck using Windows on a computer, not that Internet Archive is dangerous it's a legit site. But I guess you're own your own. Siddon should be able to use that link, I mean he was willing to use Pirate Bay and I never touch that site.

[KeyserCorleone]

Oh well, that's what happens if you're stuck using Windows on a computer, not that Internet Archive is dangerous it's a legit site. But I guess you're own your own. Siddon should be able to use that link, I mean he was willing to use Pirate Bay and I never touch that site.


We should have a rule about looking for movies with English links. No offense to Raul and I thank him for hosting, but this has been an obstacle before: Takoma's original nom in the first Hall of Infamy, albeit the issue was slightly different (we couldn't find the movie at all). But now it boils down to even greater computer risks. Watching a movie on a suspicious website on your phone is one thing since those kinds of viruses rarely affect phones, but downloads are worse and will definitely harm it.

[Citizen Rules]

We should have a rule about looking for movies with English links. No offense to Raul and I thank him for hosting, but this has been an obstacle before: Takoma's original nom in the first Hall of Infamy, albeit the issue was slightly different (we couldn't find the movie at all). But now it boils down to even greater computer risks. Watching a movie on a suspicious website on your phone is one thing since those kinds of viruses rarely affect phones, but downloads are worse and will definitely harm it.I understand, I was just trying to help...I'm not even a part of this HoF.

[KeyserCorleone]

I understand, I was just trying to help...I'm not even a part of this HoF.


It's not your "fault." I just can't take the risks.

[rauldc14]

If Matt is good with it we can do a replacement nom if it's a hastle.

[Siddon]

Tried the CR thing and it didn't work so yeah I think Matt needs to pick something different

[seanc]

Funny how this one is streaming and causing an uproar, when I get annoyed when things aren’t on a streaming service because I hate all the “free” links that have nothing but garbage pop ups. Don’t ever recall anyone switching a nom for me. Anyway, I will hold off on watching that one. On with Mr Death:

93263

This took a left turn I definitely wasn’t expecting. I won’t spoil it for anyone who doesn’t know what to expect. I will say that I already thought Leuchter was off his rocker before the left turn came. He talks about death in a very blasé way. Still, didn’t expect all that. Very interesting doc, and I was pleased to see another Morris flick.

[PHOENIX74]

https://i.postimg.cc/d1DBVXQR/capturing-the-friedmans-2003-original-film-art.webp

Capturing the Friedmans - 2003

Directed by Andrew Jarecki

Produced by Andrew Jarecki & Marc Smerling

Featuring Arnold, Jesse, David & Elaine Friedman

This review contains massive spoilers!

Like many of the great documentaries, Capturing the Friedmans was the result of an incredible tale being unearthed while documentarians are pursuing something completely ordinary. Jules Naudet, Gédéon Naudet and James Hanlon were making a film about a novice fireman when 9/11 happened. The Staircase seemed like any other true crime documentary for Jean-Xavier de Lestrade until sensational revelations were unearthed. For Andrew Jarecki, it was a film about children's birthday entertainers which led him to New York clown Silly Billy - David Friedman, who sat down one day and bemoaned the state of his family. He had a brother and father in prison, both having pled guilty to child sexual abuse - but it was the way this all unfolded and the dysfunction on the part of all parties involved which made for one of the most sensational documentaries I've ever seen. Nobody escapes condemnation in Capturing the Friedmans, and Jarecki had the great fortune of happening on a family who were obsessed with video cameras and documenting their lives.

One thing can be easily summed up : Patriarch Arnold Friedman invited disaster upon his family because of his paedophilia, and the fact that he regularly bought pornographic material which depicted underage boys having sex. If he hadn't of been doing that, then none of this would have happened. There are some uncomfortably candid moments in this film. One describes an admission from Arnold that he once had sexual contact with his 8-year-old brother, and that he was exposed to sex from a very young age due to the fact that his mother had to share a bedroom with the kids, and brought guys home at night. He was obviously a very damaged individual, and from what he reveals, along with his wife Elaine, it doesn't seem that he was all that interested in women once he'd grown into a man. Elaine describes sex with Arnold as mechanical, and lacking in passion. Arnold did admit to molesting children in the past, and considering the fact that his paedophilia is very much confirmed it was probably for the best that he was behind bars.

Worryingly, Arnold conducted computer classes which specifically involved children. Once the police had discovered his pornography, their next step was to ascertain whether or not this man had ever abused any of the kids in his care at that time. What happened next was bizarre - incredible revelations from police interviews which confirmed that not only Arnold, but also his son Jesse, then a young man, had sodomized and brutalized multiple children during these classes. Jesse was described as a tormentor and monster, almost animalistic in the way he ranted, shouted, abused and demonically harangued kids. By this stage all of the boys in the computer class would be naked, tortured and brutally sodomized - sometimes forced to participate in strange games and raped. They'd supposedly be bleeding, wounded and mistreated - but it's hard to wrap your head around the fact that by the time their parents would come and pick them up, everything would seem normal. The kids happy and fine. Not only that, but the way Jesse had been described - loud, angry, abusive and abnormal - was nothing like the Jesse that everybody had known all their lives.

For all we know, some of these kids may have been molested by Arnold at these computer lessons - but the facts are long gone, and what we're left with are all of the statements these kids have made. They're not to blame for them - the police squeezed these bizarre allegations from them. It would start when a couple of detectives would inform the parents that their kid had been abused sexually at Arnold's class, before the child involved had even been questioned. The next step was the interview with the child, and the interview wouldn't end until the child had confessed to being abused - and in a torturous way where any child would be desperate to tell the investigator what he or she wanted to hear just to make them go away. These are some of the statements from those who were questioned :

"...someone else put those words in my mouth.”
"The police repeatedly told me that they knew something had happened, and they would not leave until I told them."
"I remember other parents of students who were allegedly abused telling my parents that my brother and I were in denial and pressuring them to give us therapy or hypnosis."
“What I do remember is the detectives putting on me a lot of pressure to speak up. And at some point, I kind of broke down, I started crying. And when I started to tell them things, I was telling myself that it’s not true. Like I was telling myself just say this to them in order to get them off your back.”
"I remember saying that not because it was true, but instead because I thought it would get them off my back.”
"They were operating as if everyone had been molested, abused.”
"...remember the police being aggressive and scary."
“I was very insistent that nothing ever happened to me. And that never seemed to be good enough as a response."

And on and on. Nearly 50 people have testified as to having been forced to invent stories, go along with what the police were telling them, and being pressured into admitting they were abused. To admit to this biased interview technique isn't unquestioningly demanding that we see Jesse and Arnold as innocent, it's only pointing out the fact that the police investigation was so hopelessly flawed as to be completely unreliable. They believed all these kids had been abused, and they believed they were just making them admit it - even if it took time and great effort to do so. They weren't acting in bad faith, but the way they investigated this matter is almost a textbook case as to how not to question children. If something ever did happen in those classrooms, it would be hard to ascertain now. But this wasn't the only thing wrong about the justice system in this case - once matters got to the courts it became even more one-sided and unfair.

Arnold Friedman pled guilty to all the counts of abuse and sodomy against him - true or not. He did so in the hope that it would help his son, who was facing the same charges. When faced with something like this, prosecutors will offer "deals" to the accused. Go along with the deal and you'll get favourable treatment - but plead not guilty and take it to trial, and there's a chance you'll spend the rest of your life in prison. To help convince Jesse to plead guilty as well, those prosecuting piled nearly 100 serious charges up against him, and suggested that if forced to test his innocence, he might well be locked away for the rest of his life. As an alternative, he could plead guilty and be assured of probably being jailed for less than 10 years. These deals, where defendants are often forced to risk it all if they don't give in, are something that has the feel of going against fairness and truth. Once Jesse had pled guilty (to something he still insisted he had never done) he was paraded around as a child rapist, attacked by angry parents and admonished by a judge who sentenced him to six to eighteen years in prison. If he has molested or sodomized children, which he may have, the authorities have done a wonderful job of giving him a claim to innocence.

One of the great things about this feature is the way we get an inside look into how the Friedman family were operating at this time, through home video footage. The fights, and the strange attitude the guys in the family had, to the point of performing - whether it be improvised comedy skits, music, or happy interludes in the midst of this horrible case and the fact two of them were going to prison. Elaine and David Friedman were on bad terms, with the latter constantly calling her out, arguing with her, demanding she give her unquestioning support to Arnold, and always nagging or belittling her. Elaine had found out about her husband's paedophilia, and his magazines - so I think it understandable that her attitude was "who is this man I married?" I'm not sure if she knew earlier, but if she did she may have been in denial. The proclivity the gang had for performing made those prosecuting the case uncomfortable and hostile. For example, the day Jesse was to be sentenced, he stood outside the court dancing around and performing Monty Python sketches - both unusual, and not displaying the remorse expected of him. They are simply a very strange family, and make for an interesting film.

Arnold ended up committing suicide in prison, distraught over what his paedophilia had done to his family. That did mean, however, that Jesse received $250,000 from his life insurance policy - which covered suicide at that time. Jesse ended up serving 13 years in prison, and although he's constantly tried to prove his innocence investigators still insist he was guilty of abusing those children. Elaine remarried, and seems much happier. David still seems to have a chip on his shoulder, but that's understandable. It's all summed up in expert fashion by Andrew Jarecki, who has a certain skill when it comes time to reveal facts, interviews, video footage and what music he adds to the film. It's riveting stuff, with one jaw-dropping revelation after another - but in some quarters his film is judged harshly by those who believe that Arnold and Jesse are guilty of the worst kind of crimes imaginable. Arnold comes out a very dark, damaged figure in the movie, and the family as a clan that's not quite right. The police and the justice system also come out looking quite bad - as does the suburban upper-middle class part of America where the Friedmans existed for so long with their unquestioning peers.

I've seen Capturing the Friedmans three times, and I'm still rocked by what the documentary reveals about the inner secrets at the heart of this family unit, their persecution, and ultimate destruction. I wish Elaine all the best with her life, and she's the only person in the film to whom I can comfortably say that.

4.5

[PHOENIX74]

If you haven't seen it yet, I'd suggest watching Capturing the Friedmans before reading the review.

[PHOENIX74]

https://i.postimg.cc/wMRh5d25/king-of-kong.jpg

The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters - 2007

Directed by Seth Gordon

Produced by Ed Cunningham, Luis Lopez, J. Clay Tweel, Beau Bauman & Ross Tuttle

Featuring Steve Wiebe, Billy Mitchell & Walter Day

This review contains spoilers

A good documentary really benefits from having a great villain and hero, and one of the funniest aspects of The King of Kong is the fact that Arcade Champion Billy Mitchell didn't realise how well he was fitting the archetype of the nefarious bad guy. Mitchell's claim to fame came from arguably being the best classic arcade video game player around in the 1980s - holding various all-time records on games such as Pac-Man and Donkey Kong. It was the kind of limited fame that went on to define him, considering how young he was when he attained it. Though it's now impossible to tell how much of a narcissist he would have been without being the best at these games, he's now also the champ of self-love. He dresses like the villain in a comedy would, and almost everything he says is laced with self-congratulation and flattery. In the meantime, this documentary sets his challenger, Steve Wiebe, up as a working class, down on his luck, regular Joe - out of work and for some reason playing Donkey Kong all day instead of looking for a job, though the film does show him teaching later in the film, and he's apparently now a maths teacher at Redmond High School, Washington, according to his Wikipedia page.

In The King of Kong we watch as Steve Wiebe becomes obsessed with becoming an expert at playing Donkey Kong, eventually recording himself beating the all-time World Record that had been held for years by Billy Mitchell. Unfortunately for Wiebe, he'd relied on a fellow called Roy Shildt for help getting there, and even though the mechanics of the Donkey Kong circuitry looked okay, Shildt had such an untrustworthy reputation that Wiebe's record run wasn't accepted by Twin Galaxies and self-appointed grand referee in such matters, Walter Day. So, Steve Wiebe was encouraged to come down to a Twin Galaxies tournament in person to see if he could break the record in person, whereupon it would be guaranteed to be accepted. Wiebe did this, and in a friendly spirit of competition he invited Mitchell to come and contest the matter in the flesh. Wiebe travels to Funspot in Laconia, New Hampshire, and breaks the record in person to much fanfare. It's then revealed that Mitchell, who was a conspicuous no-show, has sent a video recording of his own, which appears to show him passing the much whispered about million mark, thereby passing and overshadowing Wiebe's new score - but the video shows signs of not being authentic. In a cruel and ironic twist, Mitchell's video, unlike Wiebe's, is accepted. Throughout the rest of the film, Mitchell will constantly avoid Wiebe as if he has something to hide.

To those who have seen the film but not the special features on the DVD, there's further controversy. There, we get to see Mitchell's video and the little giveaways that prove beyond any doubt that his effort was on an emulator, which is against the rules of competition - and if that isn't enough, photographic evidence of the circuitry he'd been using gives further credence to the fact that he wasn't on the level. It comes as music to our ears that all of Mitchell's high scores were disqualified - and I'd love to have been there when he recieved the news. Wiebe held the record for some time, but in the years since, the record has hopped around from person to person. For comparison's sake, Mitchell's long-held record was 874,300 points which was soon pushed up into the 900,000s by Wiebe and then past the million mark when the Mitchell controversy and other contenders entered the fray. I have an emulation machine set out in arcade configuration, so despite never having played Donkey Kong before I gave it a shot. After 20 minutes or so, I'd managed to set a record for myself of a nice and even 14,000 points. It's a damn hard game, but I'm itching to get back to it to gain some proficiency and push that score up to 6 figures.

I like gaming, so of course a film like The King of Kong is pretty interesting to me. I lived through the revolution which started with Pong, and then the breakthrough that was Space Invaders - a much more complex use of electronics to perform the function of making a game. Then of course the craze got underway with the likes of Donkey Kong, Pac-Man, Frogger, Galaga and all of those classic titles that we'd pay to play - or else watch those who had become more skillful than ourselves to cheer them on. I can't admit to being particularly good at it, despite loving it. My hand-eye coordination and general inability to multi-task and react quickly enough means I'll usually embarrass myself if someone is watching me. I do get addicted fairly easily though, and although I only meant to try playing Donkey Kong a couple of times, I must have had at least a dozen goes before I gave up, satisfied with at least getting past the first couple of stages. I don't really like how the competitors use little glitches - something that's allowable, as anything goes as long as it's the original hardware, but still cheating a little in my eyes.

Overall, a very successful film when it came out and it's lived on as far as documentary filmmaking is concerned - this must be the most well-known one concerning this subject, and I'd like to see more and know more about these people who still play the classic games and compete to be the best. There's no chance I'll ever be one, unless I pick a game nobody else really likes to play as much, and claim that as my stomping ground. There are many out there, so perhaps you'll see a film with me in called The King of Elevator Action one day - that's one I particularly like (and no, you won't see that movie, because even though I love the game I'm no good at it and can't get past the 2nd level.) Anyway, someone is probably so good at Elevator Action that they've got so far into it they've broken the game. I'm destined to simply sit back and watch these people in awe.

4

[Torgo]

Capturing the Friedmans - 4

This documentary successfully explores the elusiveness of the truth. It's fascinating that director Jarecki had more than the typical documentary filmmaker could dream of while making a movie like this at his disposal: hours of camcorder footage of the Friedmans, police commentary, "victim" commentary, shoeboxes full of photographs, you name it, and even he's not sure what actually happened. I've seen movies both fictional and non-fictional that pit conflicting stories against each other, and there is something special about the way this one does it and not just because of the grisly subject matter. Two that stand out involve Jesse, those being his and his lawyer's conflicting accounts of whether his father, Howard, abused him, and the more light-hearted but no less meaningful one of the cop's reaction to Jesse acting out a Monty Python routine on the courthouse steps. Was he really making light of the case, or is there a possibility that he just wanted to share a joyful moment with his brothers before he was shipped away?

Even if its exploration of truth is not interesting to you - and quite frankly, I don't know how it couldn't be - the movie is equally thought-provoking as a study of how one slip-up can collapse an entire institution. I've often thought about how little it would take for me to lose something vitally important in my life, and while it was a long time coming for the Friedmans, the way it shows how a certain magazine did the deed provides a classic example. I also like how the movie shows how external factors, i.e. ones outside of the family, make such collapses even more devastating. For instance, having lived in a fair share of suburbs in my life, I know how seriously their founders and/or long-term residents value their traditions and reputation, and it's apparent that this doubly applies for ones as posh and tightly knit as Great Neck. In sum, besides sadness, this movie left me with feelings of confusion, frustration and not knowing who or what to believe. I can't be alone in thinking that this not a preferred way to feel after watching something, but in this case, it's an endorsement.

[KeyserCorleone]

Any word on Matt's replacement?

[rauldc14]

Any word on Matt's replacement?

We are still working through it. I have PM'ed him and we will work out the kinks, whether that be getting something accessible for the current nom or replacing it.

[rauldc14]

By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent

https://www.thewrap.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/woody.jpg

I have a few beefs with this. The first being that I can't even log this on letterboxd. Anything I watch should be loggable in my opinion. Putting selfishness aside, I also thought the documentary was pretty poorly constructed. It seemed to just go and bash others rather than try to evade us of what happened with the whole Woody situation. And while I think after watching this I tend to think some of the Farrows are pretty misleading, it's obvious that I can't proof it one way or another. Like the narrator said, I like Woody Allen movies and I like Mia Farrow performances and this didn't do anything to change that. I found the conclusion with all the Polanski stuff to be a bit odd. Are they saying that Polanski has been forgiven but Allens reputation has been severely damaged? If that's the case I quite disagree

The best we get from this is discussion on this whole topic which I can definitely be a part of so I look forward to others thoughts on this. Structurally this was a chore for me but still it was interesting to at least see it. And since I can't log it on letterboxd I will just leave it unrated.

[KeyserCorleone]

I have a few beefs with this. The first being that I can't even log this on letterboxd


Can't somebody just add this on Letterboxd via Tmdb?

[PHOENIX74]

https://i.postimg.cc/KYqS6pnq/innocent.jpg

By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent - 2020

Written and directed by Rick Worley

Narrated by Rick Worley

Featuring Woody Allen, Dylan O'Sullivan Farrow & Ronan Farrow

I remember the backlash against Woody Allen's autobiography being published by Hachette, and their backdown after employees staged a walkout. I never quite came to my own conclusion about it, because I had absolutely no idea what it was he was supposed to have done, aside from the unseemly aspect of his relationship with Soon-Yi Previn, whom he had known as the child of Mia Farrow when the two were in a relationship. Unseemly as it is, she was an adult when the two started a relationship with each other, and it appears to be one set to last Allen's life. He hadn't broken the law, but the girl was nearly Allen's stepdaughter at one stage, so it was just a little yucky. I'd assumed that people thought he had more to answer for, and By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent dismantles what that was in a thorough, court case-like fashion - with facts, evidence, testimony and argument. After it you'll have no doubt whatsoever what has happened here, and have some sympathy for an artist who has attracted the attention of the mob.

The calls for Allen to be canceled, and exiled certainly are alarming considering the fact that nobody is accusing him of being a serial abuser, and that the whole debacle relates to a case from 30 years ago - one that was tested by investigators and many other professionals who concluded that it had absolutely no merit. In fact, there's a sense of the ridiculous when it comes to the child molestation claim shunted through his life by Mia Farrow regarding her adopted daughter Dylan. You can understand Farrow's rage at the time - her ex had just started a serious relationship with a women whom Farrow had raised, and as off-colour as it seems to us, to her it must have seemed like a monstrous betrayal. That she was using Dylan to exact some kind of revenge on Allen is obvious, whether the allegations were true or not - but when all the facts are considered, it becomes obvious that the incident of molestation has been fabricated, and should have been forgotten about once investigators had dropped the case. Unfortunately, Dylan, Mia Farrow and her son Ronan Farrow (who is also Woody Allen's biological son) continue to hound the poor man with the discredited charges to this day - convincing many they're true during the Me Too movement.

By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent is of a quality similar to a lot of YouTube content put together by industrious and talented people who don't have the resources to make full-fledged films. It's extremely well researched - extraordinarily well for content of this type - and Rick Worley should be commended for his intelligence, narrative poise and editing skills. He should be ready for many horrifying comments from people who have done absolutely 0 research or have been informed on the matter through tweets and memes. He gives a wonderful speech towards the end of his 155-minute video about mob rule, justice and art that will always hold true, and really rings true. Anyone who violently disagrees with him should listen to everything he has to say and weigh the evidence themselves. He quotes sources, and everything he presents is on the record and as such can be taken into account, and not dismissed as rumour or innuendo (which is what makes up the bulk of the Anti-Woody Allen accusers information.) I enjoyed watching his video, and I'm a sucker for content like it.

Worley also makes great use of clips from Woody Allen movies, and screencaps of the various comments he attracts from people who have decided Allen is a paedophile because of their erroneous beliefs that usually come from one-sided journalistic smears and a dislike of the man. The type of people that shout at you when you try to explain the finer points of the case, block their ears and refuse to even consider the facts. I did find myself pausing his video quite often to read the extracts that he puts onscreen for durations that are always a little too short - they were illuminating. How ironic is it that it's more probable that Mia Farrow abused children - but I don't want to be a hypocrite, so lets just say that claims against her are unsubstantiated. Many people have had parents who were hard to please and lost their tempers far too easily. The really sad thing is that Dylan, Mia and Ronan look set to continue their attack on this man for as long as they still have breath and a media spotlight - nothing will stop them. Allen has to live with their accusations. Accusations of a discredited event against a man with no history of child abuse, sexual harassment, sexual abuse or physical abuse. Once you consider the easily verifiable facts, there's no other conclusion you can make. A really interesting and enjoyable YouTube video.

3

[PHOENIX74]

Are they saying that Polanski has been forgiven but Allens reputation has been severely damaged? If that's the case I quite disagree


Far from it from what I understood of what Rick Worley was saying. He was illustrating that there is still a great deal of rage against Polanski, and his reputation still in tatters, despite the fact that the person he abused has long since forgiven him and claims that the media and attention-seeking officials did far more damage to her. He was questioning mob justice - the fact that it's unending, and the punishment outweighs the crime. That the whole reason we have law to begin with is because mob justice is unfair and goes against the tenets of society. The mob has turned on Polanski and Allen, and despite Polanski being guilty and Allen not, they've both been punished to an extent that far outweighs any crime they may have committed.

[Torgo]

Mr. Death (1999) - 5

This documentary was on IFC a lot in the early 2000s and I only caught bits and pieces of it, so it was nice to finally watch it in its entirety. I've been wanting to do this ever since I made a realization that Fred Leuchter is not far off from being a real-life version of Walter White from Breaking Bad. To summarize that TV series in case you haven't seen it, Walter is a brilliant scientist resigned to working as a chemistry teacher who becomes diagnosed with cancer. He starts manufacturing crystal meth to secure his family's future, but he becomes drunk with the power and validation of his intelligence his new job provides, severing his meaningful relationships in the process. The more renowned Walter becomes, the easier it becomes for him to live with the suffering his creation causes. When you replace Walter's day job with the disrespected and validation-starved one of "execution consultant," crystal meth with the Leuchter Report and Walter's new coworkers with Ernst Zündel and David Irving, it's all a bit familiar, isn't it? Is all this a bit pedantic? Probably, but it’s also a testament to how well Errol Morris proves that truth is stranger than fiction. Moreover, this is one of his best movies for how it delves into the roots of denial and how far some are willing to stoop to be recognized.

Morris may be my favorite documentary filmmaker for how authentic and unvarnished he makes every image and word seem, how he makes his subjects reveal who they really are and for how he makes the ordinary extraordinary. His signature on-camera interviewing style works just as well as it always does, as does how he lets the objects do the talking. The repeated footage of Leuchter scraping rocks off the gas chamber walls, for instance, has a much different tone near the end of the movie than when we first see him do it. I also like the sly and seemingly invisible way Morris makes the movie about something else, i.e., about how any of us and not just the likes of Leuchter, Zündel, etc. can succumb to denial. Whether you believe in capital punishment or not, you must admit there’s dark humor in the fact that prison systems no longer sought Leuchter's help after his report on state-sponsored executions went public. It ends up being a documentary that's enlightening and disturbing in equal measure about how deep the denial well goes. Oh, and Leuchter drinks 40 cups of coffee and smokes six packs of cigarettes a day? Crawling down that well must carry some health benefits (which I personally hope to never benefit from).

[PHOENIX74]

https://i.postimg.cc/j2s2Gv6x/mr-death.jpg

Mr. Death: The Rise and Fall of Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. - 1999

Directed by Errol Morris

Produced by Dorothy Aufiero, David Collins, Errol Morris & Michael Williams

Featuring Fred A. Leuchter

Contains some spoilers

Man. You can be so intelligent in one small field of enterprise or knowledge, and completely lacking and naïve in others - which I think is one of the lessons of Mr. Death: The Rise and Fall of Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. I had no idea of where this film was going to go, so when we segued from Leuchter's repair and design of various execution equipment to the Holocaust I became particularly uncomfortable. That discomfort got a lot worse as Leuchter's clumsy experiments and general lack of historical awareness led him down a very narrow road to nowhere (that nowhere being encamped with Holocaust denialism.) To tell you the truth, I didn't mind that man until that point, and even after he ended up amongst a bad crowd, his personality kept making him sympathetic. He didn't seem like a bad person - just misguided, a little narcissistic and somewhat silly. He shouldn't have gone anywhere near this field of study, even with his scant experience with gas chambers. Footage of him chipping away at bricks in Auschwitz was particularly painful.

So, with the general way this documentary was presented, I found the opening credits to be headache inducing and a little disorientating - the flashing lights and blue colours kind of aggravating. I had no problems after that - and the photographic and video stuff shot inside execution chambers had my morbid curiosity going. That "ghost photo" of the electric chair in Tennessee was a definite sign that Leuchter is willing to put his scientific mind on pause for flights of fancy - but I love "ghost photos" even though I'm never convinced by them. I just love to be a little spooked - so there must be a percentage of me that does allow for the supernatural. Leuchter narrates his own story, and he has plenty of rope with which to hang himself with, which is kind of fitting really. When students first watched this film by Errol Morris they thought it was espousing a Holocaust denial point of view - but Morris though Leuchter's flaws were self evident. I think you have to factor in for people who aren't really intelligent - because I can imagine others taking the wrong message away from it without the extra emphasis Morris put on the disproving of Leuchter's theories.

There was one short film included in this documentary that I'd seen once before, and thank goodness I had, for it allowed me to cover my eyes so I didn't have to witness it again. I find Electrocuting an Elephant, from 1903, pretty distressing - but it does confront you with the naked truth of execution through means of electricity and how horrifying it really is. I'm sickened by the film, and although the elephant in question, named "Topsy" was a troublesome beast in captivity, I still don't think it deserved to be the subject of such an unusual method of being put down. To me, when I watched the video, it seemed that it suffered - but I might be wrong. I hope I am wrong, and Topsy was rendered unconscious immediately. A short warning before we see the footage might offer some of us animal lovers a chance to choose whether we watch it or not, but I guess if we're watching a film about execution methods and the Holocaust that was made in the '90s Morris may assume that we have the constitution to handle it.

So, all in all, a film that really gives us some insight into Fred Leuchter's thought processes - the part where he delivers a speech to a bunch of Holocaust deniers - obvious pride on his face - is pretty damning. Like Prince Andrew, he probably walked away from his interviews thinking he'd done a good job and that people would see how persecuted he was. In the same kind of way he has a blinkered view of history, he also doesn't realise that what he's said is pretty damning. As I think about him, any sympathy I may have had initially is draining away. This is exactly the kind of guy who would have risen to a high level within the SS during those dark days in Germany - somebody who doesn't flinch when it comes to execution, and somebody who approaches the subject in a very analytical manner, without any empathy. Oh sure - he's against torture, but he seems to lack that feeling most of us have when it comes to taking another life. Good for executions on a technical level - but bad for virtually anything outside of the lab or engineering office. What Morris does is allow us to see that very clearly, with Leuchter's own words.

4

[beelzebubble]

I think I will be watching Mr. Death over the weekend. Unfortunately, I don't have a computer, so I will be watching it on my phone. Is this a phone friendly film? I won't be missing out on any fabulous cinematography, will I?

[Torgo]

I think I will be watching Mr. Death over the weekend. Unfortunately, I don't have a computer, so I will be watching it on my phone. Is this a phone friendly film? I won't be missing out on any fabulous cinematography, will I?I had a similar limitation yesterday and had to watch it on a tablet, so I don't think that will affect your enjoyment.

Also, as PHOENIX mentioned, it includes a short film of an elephant being electrocuted and a couple of scenes with possibly seizure-inducing flashing lights. Sorry for not warning all of you earlier.

[beelzebubble]

Also, as PHOENIX mentioned, it includes a short film of an elephant being electrocuted and a couple of scenes with possibly seizure-inducing flashing lights. Sorry for not warning all of you earlier.


Awwww! I have avoided video of that electrocution for so long. Damn.

[Citizen Rules]

I think I will be watching Mr. Death over the weekend. Unfortunately, I don't have a computer, so I will be watching it on my phone...Please tell me that's not how you watched Lawrence of Arabia:eek::)

,,it includes a short film of an elephant being electrocuted...Good thing I didn't join.

[beelzebubble]

Please tell me that's not how you watched Lawrence of Arabia:eek::)
.
lol No, I have a nice sized tv as well. Just no computer.

[Citizen Rules]

lol No, I have a nice sized tv as well. Just no computer.Shoo, I'm relieved:p :)

[matt72582]

If you like Morris, check out "American Dharma"

[seanc]

Won't You Be My Neighbor:

93396

I knew when I saw this in the noms it would be tough to beat for me. One of my favorite documentaries ever. It just gives me all the feels about goodness and pure Christianity in this very broken world.

I really try not to put people on too high of a pedestal, because all of us are so deeply flawed. It is very hard not to look at this man's life through rose colored glasses though.

This doc is so pure to me that I really don't even have much to say. The quietness and grace that is shown towards neighbor here brings me to tears at multiple points. The picture above is a scene that I will absolutely never forget because to me it is such a beautiful portrait of how we are called to live but rarely do.

I really love this doc, what a wonderful rewatch.

[seanc]

Capturing The Friedman's:

93397

This is a really well done doc but I was hoping to love it more because of some of the things I had heard about it. Because of the topic this movie could not be more uncomfortable to watch. We are constantly hearing things for an hour and a half that most of us can't spend more than five minutes talking about. What makes the doc so interesting is that as soon as we are given a point a view about one of the people we are immediately given an opposing view point. It is a very interesting way to tell the story because it keeps the viewer guessing. However at the end of the day we are left with a man who has done incredibly horrific things even if he didn't do ALL that he was accused of. It's a fine line that doesn't end up mattering to me when I step back and look at the big picture. Very well done movie and the subject matter is very disturbing but compelling. It is a look at how a seemingly normal guy can be doing the most unimaginable things.

I copied my old review of this movie because it really does capture how it made me feel both watches. I don't have anything to add of substance but Arnold Friedman is obviously quite the monster even if everything else is difficult to sort out.

[KeyserCorleone]

Just a reminder: if that Woody Allen documentary is going to be reviewed on Movieforums, then it really does need to be uploaded to Tmdb / Letterboxd so a page for MoFo can exist.

[seanc]

King Of Kong:

93449

This is the type of doc that I absolutely love watching these days. I think idiosyncratic characters is why most of us love watching documentaries. When that comes in a package of harm and crime, like Capturing The Friedmans or Dr Death, it can make me feel guilty that I am being entertained.

When it come in the package of King Of Kong however, I can feel fine about how entertaining people can be. There is a plethora of idiosyncrasies in King Of Kong and I love every bit of it.

This watch took me on a fairly deep you tube dive of interviews afterwards. It’s very interesting to see how much stock is put into these records, that most of us could care less about. Too bad we never had a follow up where these two actually go head to head. Or maybe it’s better this way, where the drama of it all can hang there, and give us the entertainment I enjoyed so much this watch.

[Torgo]

By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent - 2.5

I have two words to describe this documentary, video essay, whatever you want to call it: exhaustive and exhausting. In regard to the former, Rick Worley deserves credit for doing his research. With all the articles, news clips, sound bites, etc. he unearthed, he could easily make researcher an additional title along with cartoonist and film critic. If anything, this video is valuable in the discussion of the corruption found in cancel culture. As we've seen with Aziz Ansari, Richard Stanley, Dan Price and many others, it often results in mob justice, not to mention punishment that does not fit the crime. Unfortunately, the documentary's reliance on arguments that are immaterial or that have pseudologic weakens its aims, as does how it earns my other descriptor (more on that later).

Does Mia Farrow have questionable adoption and parenting methods? Do Woody Allen and Soon-Yi Previn have a healthy marriage? Does Woody Allen have strong working relationships with his performers? The documentary leads me to believe I should answer "yes" to all of the above, but I don't think this means we should doubt everything Mia says, believe everything Woody says or vice versa, much less agree with the title. The same goes for Worley's argument that we should trust Allen and Polanski because their work does not promote what they are accused of, which is also suspect for how Worley bullies those who choose not to watch it, and I say this even though the Hachette Book Group affair scares me as much as it scares Worley. There's also the objectionable treatment of Ronan, who can't be blamed on how Mia's parenting may or may not have affected him, and while he and the other MeToo followers are not right 100% of the time, the suggestion that they are in it for the fame, fortune, camaraderie, etc. is a classic straw man. Besides, blame the excess of media outlets rather than Ronan on his countless news magazine appearances because it's the rule for someone in the headlines to make several such appearances and not the exception. As for why the documentary is exhausting, it sort of plays out like a feature length version of the "Mr. X" scene from JFK (and it's just as easy to pick apart, I might add). That is a great scene, but I would not want to watch a 150-minute version of it and not just because it offers little room to breathe. I also find Worley's attempts at adding comic relief smug and sophomoric. Again, the video provides legitimate criticism of cancel culture, and even though Worley doesn't go far enough, I appreciate that he attempts to give Mia and Ronan credit where credit is due. It still makes me thankful that "trial by video essay" is not a thing.

[seanc]

I’m mostly agreeing with the assessments of the Woody Allen doc, but I am still waiting to hear how exactly he has been punished or canceled. Still feels like a figment of our cultures imagination.

[Citizen Rules]

I’m mostly agreeing with the assessments of the Woody Allen doc, but I am still waiting to hear how exactly he has been punished or canceled. Still feels like a figment of our cultures imagination.I can't answer that of course. But I know Takoma won't watch his movies, so that's a cancellation of one!

[seanc]

I can't answer that of course. But I know Takoma won't watch his movies, so that's a cancellation of one!

I suppose we are all cancelled in some way then. Maybe you are joking? If not, is that a fair assessment of “cancel culture”?

[rauldc14]

King of Kong

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2007/08/16/arts/17kong-600.jpg

I feel like Documentaries in which the subject matches an interest I have a deep appreciation for only helps how much I can enjoy it. This makes me want to go an arcade right away. The Mitchell vs. Weibe stuff is just super intriguing to me. First was crazy how Weibe goes to Finland to break the record and then all of the sudden Mitchell sends in a tape to get his high score back. The fact Mitchell couldn't go head to head vs. Steve is really quite pitiful. The guy travels across the country and Mitchell wouldn't meet him 10 miles to play was appalling. This was a very well structured documentary too. Certainly one of my favorite documentaries of all time. I play in the World Tecmo Championship and while I am nowhere near an elite player stuff like this gets me pumped for that too.

4.5

[Torgo]

I’m mostly agreeing with the assessments of the Woody Allen doc, but I am still waiting to hear how exactly he has been punished or canceled. Still feels like a figment of our cultures imagination.Same here. Career-wise, he's doing just fine. This may be common knowledge, but he released movies in 2019 and 2020 and is working on his fiftieth one right now. Also, as for his memoirs that Hachette decided not to publish, he just found another publisher.

[Citizen Rules]

I suppose we are all cancelled in some way then. Maybe you are joking? If not, is that a fair assessment of “cancel culture”?Sorta joking tone, as in a lighter post and not trying to be controversial, just topical.

But I was being serious in that Takoma had said in the Persona Rec Hof she wouldn't watch Woody Allen films. Does that cancel him? I guess it's the same as one vote for any candidate. One vote or one cancel vote doesn't do nothing, but they can add up to a point where businesses like streaming services take note and remove certain movies from their services. I call that part of the cancel culture.

[seanc]

but they can add up to a point where businesses like streaming services take note and remove certain movies from their services. I call that part of the cancel culture.

This is where I agree with you definition of being cancelled, but disagree that it has happened to Allen. It seems like just the perception of being cancelled is enough.

[Citizen Rules]

This is where I agree with you definition of being cancelled, but disagree that it has happened to Allen. It seems like just the perception of being cancelled is enough.Sorry for the late reply, after I initially posted this morning I had to leave for the day, just got home.


Yeah I agree Allen isn't cancelled and I for one plan on watching more of his filmography. If you haven't seen it, I recommend Wonder Wheel.

[seanc]

Sorry for the late reply, after I initially posted this morning I had to leave for the day, just got home.


Yeah I agree Allen isn't cancelled and I for one plan on watching more of his filmography. If you haven't seen it, I recommend Wonder Wheel.

Wonder Wheel was a bit of a disappointment for me because it paired Allen with Winslet, who is also one of my favorites. I didn’t hate it,, but definitely in that muddled middle of his filmography for me. Blue Jasmine is my favorite of his in the last decade or so. There are a handful I haven’t seen. He makes a crazy amount of movies.

[rauldc14]

Seen 11 of Woody's 50. Quite behind, but also not in a rush for much.

[Allaby]

I've seen 46 of Woody's films.

[Citizen Rules]

I'm at 19 of Allen's films and would like to see more.

[rauldc14]

I've seen 46 of Woody's films.

Must be Marks son :)

[PHOENIX74]

I’m mostly agreeing with the assessments of the Woody Allen doc, but I am still waiting to hear how exactly he has been punished or canceled. Still feels like a figment of our cultures imagination.

I think it was that thing with his book just about to come out, and then his publisher dropping the whole deal when there was a mass walkout. Plus all the famous actors coming out and doing interviews about how they'd never appear in a Woody Allen movie, and those who have stated they'd donate any money they made from him to a Me Too charity. He's got a good proportion of people out there thinking he's a paedophile, which is unpleasant to have to deal with.

The whole thing with Soon-Yi just made him look terrible - there's no spinning that, even though he was never her step-father.

Definitely not cancelled though. I assume being cancelled means you can't make and release movies anymore. Nearly cancelled book-wise at the most.

[seanc]

93476

A little bonus watch since I was looking forward to another Malle. Watched on a beautiful transfer with flawless subtitles on the best streaming service in the world nonetheless.

This is a very cool doc. There isn’t much to say about it because it is just observing human nature. I could watch a doc like this a week though. Different areas and countries. I love just hearing people talk and try to articulate their world views. Not because I’m being judgmental but because you realize it’s how most of us think and talk. We kind of talk ourselves in circles and go off on random tangents. Human nature is a wonderful thing to behold. Really enjoyed this. Bummer it isn’t going to be in the running.

[Citizen Rules]

...Watched on a beautiful transfer with flawless subtitles on the best streaming service in the world nonetheless... I see what you did there;)


BTW is that doc still in the HOF? I thought it was being changed out? It doesn't matter to me, just curious as I was wondering what the replacement would be.

[seanc]

I see what you did there;)


BTW is that doc still in the HOF? I thought it was being changed out? It doesn't matter to me, just curious as I was wondering what the replacement would be.

It’s out but we haven’t gotten a replacement yet.

[beelzebubble]

I'm super busy at work so I am just going to let you know I have seen three of the docs this weekend.

Mr. Death
The Woody Allen one with the long title: He is innocent
King of Kong
I enjoyed all three of them. The Woody one kind of opened my eyes to the notion that Mia is the one keeping the accusation alive. I already had a problem with Woody dating Mia's daughter. That was just nasty. Sow the wind. Reap the whirlwind. I would definitely call the Woody one a video essay. But does that make it "not" a documentary? That might be an interesting discussion.

Mr. Death was excellent. I believe there is a film with Timothy Spall as the neo-nazi and Rachel Weisz as a prosecutor (I think). They actually have a scientist debunk Mr. Death's findings in that movie.
In King of Kong, Billy Mitchell was so smug, he made a perfect villain.

[rauldc14]

Regarding Place De La Republique:

It seems as if it won't be in. There may or may not be a replacement as Matt hasn't started watching the noms yet anyways. I feel no real need to push the issue. If Matt wants back in, I'll just extend the time.

I still would recommend people seeing Place De La Republique. I thought it was good.

[Siddon]

The reaction to the Woody Allen documentary is fascinating to me. Woody and Soon Yi have been together for 30 years what he did was not a crime or fairly unusual. The reaction is yeah he was accused of molesting a seven year old...but he wasn't cancelled and he still had a gross relationship so it's okay that this man had his child stolen away from him.

Also we are just going to ignore the physical and psychological damage Mia inflicted on her children because...well we don't like the relationship between Woody and Soon Yi. Three of her children are dead, two are estranged...

As for the notion if the film is a documentary or a "film essay". I think it's a strong element of a performative documentary. It's pushing you towards an emotional response by going through the history of the case and hitting you with a series of hard facts.

[seanc]

Woody and Soon Yi have been together for 30 years what he did was not fairly unusual.

One other example?

[Gideon58]

Woody and Soon-Yi have been together for 30 years? Seriously? Reading that made me feel about 150 years old.

[Gideon58]

II've seen 46 of Woody's films.


I've seen 42

[Siddon]

One other example?


Of the age difference....Frank Sinatra and Mia Farrow

[seanc]

Of the age difference....Frank Sinatra and Mia Farrow

Marrying an ex wife’s daughter?

Pretty sure I didn’t have to explain that but here we are.

[Thief]

I'm not participating in this HoF, but I just want to share my love for King of Kong. One of my favorite documentaries, but most importantly, one of the most fun and entertaining. The way that director Seth Gordon manages to successfully build the rivalry between the "underdog" and the "arrogant champion" is quite brilliant; especially when post-documentary incidents have proved that Billy Mitchell *is* indeed that much of a douchey assh*le :laugh:

[Siddon]

Marrying an ex wife’s daughter?

Pretty sure I didn’t have to explain that but here we are.

That wasn't what I was talking about and also...that didn't happen.

Strange in your review you claimed it was an info dump and yet the film clearly lays out that Mia and Woody were never married, Mia didn't live with Soon Yi, Soon Yi lived with Andre Previns. The Previns took Mia in after her relationship with Frank Sinatra ended and she claimed she was being abused. Then surprise Mia ended up pregnant with Andre's children and Dory Previn(Mia's friend who took her in) ended up in a mental institution.

Which leads to the basis of the film...did Woody molest a seven year old Dylan Farrow.

[seanc]

That wasn't what I was talking about and also...that didn't happen.

Strange in your review you claimed it was an info dump and yet the film clearly lays out that Mia and Woody were never married, Mia didn't live with Soon Yi, Soon Yi lived with Andre Previns. The Previns took Mia in after her relationship with Frank Sinatra ended and she claimed she was being abused. Then surprise Mia ended up pregnant with Andre's children and Dory Previn(Mia's friend who took her in) ended up in a mental institution.

Which leads to the basis of the film...did Woody molest a seven year old Dylan Farrow.

My bad. I do forget they weren’t married but they were together a long time and had children, so that’s semantics.

I definitely missed the part where Soon Yi didn’t live with Mia? It was her adopted daughter and there was the abuse allegations against Mia. I’m definitely confused about that.

[Citizen Rules]

I once called Woody a perv for marrying his own adopted step daughter. I was wrong of course as Siddon once pointed out to me on another thread...and that's a huge part of why society thinks Woody is a perv, as so many of us think Soon-Yi was Woody's adopted daughter and think Woody was married to Mia. Neither are true but like mud thrown on a politician, that stink has stuck on Woody and he's now labeled 'pervy'.

[Thief]

That wasn't what I was talking about and also...that didn't happen.

Strange in your review you claimed it was an info dump and yet the film clearly lays out that Mia and Woody were never married, Mia didn't live with Soon Yi,

Regardless of this or that, Allen and Farrow were indeed in a 10-year relationship that started right after she adopted Soon-Yi. Ten-ish years later, he started a relationship with Soon-Yi. Regardless of whether or not there was any abuse or illegality, the relationship itself is still a pretty f*cked up thing to do. Personally, I'm quite indifferent to his work (only seen three of his films, only loved one), but I seriously don't blame anyone who prefers to stay away from his work because of his personal life choices.

[seanc]

I never thought Soon Yi was Woody’s daughter.

I did used to think he was married to Mia, have been told not way before watching this doc, but they were together over a decade and had children together so I don’t know that they weren’t technically married is a…technicality.

Soon Yi not living with Mia is new information for me even after watching the doc. She adopted her and has abuse allegations regarding Soon Yi. So if she didn’t live with her the abuse allegations are more than a little confusing. I’m not finding anything to that effect so waiting to hear back from Siddon.

[seanc]

So, I’m nor sure I know anyone that wouldn’t think it pretty messed ip, even if legal, that an ex partner would marry their adopted child.

Woody’s “I hardly knew her” defense sounds a lot like Trump saying he doesn’t know his lawyers that get arrested.

The whole situation is just so freaking bizarre, and Mia also being weird doesn’t make Woody less so. Just because something is legal doesn’t make it normal.

[Citizen Rules]

Regardless of this or that, Allen and Farrow were indeed in a 10-year relationship that started right after she adopted Soon-Yi. Ten-ish years later, he started a relationship with Soon-Yi. Regardless of whether or not there was any abuse or illegality, the relationship itself is still a pretty f*cked up thing to do...I seriously don't blame anyone who prefers to stay away from his work because of his personal life choices.When I was in high school in the late 70s people said the exact same thing about gay relationships, which caused a lot of gay people great harm.

I thought we had grown beyond that in the 21st century but I guess not, we're still judgemental and if society says something is OK to demonize, we'll do it.

Soon-Yi and Woody's relationship might not be our cup of tea and we might not understand it but they are two adults who apparently love each other. They are entitled to do what they want.

[Thief]

When I was in high school in the late 70s people said the exact same thing about gay relationships, which caused a lot of gay people great harm.

I thought we had grown beyond that in the 21st century but I guess not, we're still judgemental and if society says something is OK to demonize, we'll do it.

Soon-Yi and Woody's relationship might not be our cup of tea and we might not understand it but they are two adults who apparently love each other. They are entitled to do what they want.

Whoa, I'm not sure what to make of that parallelism you're trying to pull by the hair. One thing has literally nothing to do with the other so I won't even address that.

When I say the relationship is "pretty f*cked up", I meant starting a relationship with the adopted daughter of the woman you've been together for 10 years. Sure, they're adults, and they can do whatever they want, but it is still a pretty f*cked up thing to do to your adopted mother and to your partner of 10 years/mother of your children.

[seanc]

Anyone else ever watch Clueless and at the end think, okay technically I guess that’s alright but it sure feels gross? That’s how I feel about Woody Allen.

Like him as a director and screenwriter, still watch his movies. Think he’s got a wobbly moral compass.

Doesn’t mean I know what to make of the Dylan stuff. Doesn’t mean I think Mia isn’t another wack issue. Sure don’t think it makes me homophobic.

[Citizen Rules]

Whoa, I'm not sure what to make of that parallelism you're trying to pull by the hair. One thing has literally nothing to do with the other so I won't even address that. Each does have something to do with the other. Simply this: at one time gay relationships were ridiculed and hated by the general public. I'm old enough to remember that. Luckily that has changed for the gay community but the idea that a legal relationship that isn't what we're pesonally use to can still be demonized draws a parallel between the way society once treated gay relationships...and the way people are treating Allens and Soon-Yi relationship today.

When I say the relationship is "pretty f*cked up", I meant starting a relationship with the adopted daughter of the woman you've been together for 10 years. Sure, they're adults, and they can do whatever they want, but it is still a pretty f*cked up thing to do to your adopted mother and to your partner of 10 years/mother of your children.People back in the day would say the same type of thing about gay relationships, they might say it's hurtful to the families or something else like that. But what they were really doing is condemning adults for living their lives. It's not our business to judge.

[Thief]

https://media.tenor.com/jtsEuNdy6G0AAAAC/jerry-seinfeld-nope.gif

[Citizen Rules]

https://media.tenor.com/jtsEuNdy6G0AAAAC/jerry-seinfeld-nope.gifThat's no answer, that's what people do when they don't want to engage.

[Thief]

That's no answer, that's what people do when they don't want to engage.

I've engaged, but you're doubling down on a parallelism that, as far as I'm concerned, has no bearing whatsoever to the issue being discussed and I won't let myself be dragged down that route.

[Citizen Rules]

I've engaged, but you're doubling down on a parallelism that, as far as I'm concerned, has no bearing whatsoever to the issue being discussed and I won't let myself be dragged down that route.Actually you posted a silly meme to try knock my idea that has validity. I would've respected a simple "we'll have to agree to disagree."

[seanc]

I’m still waiting on the Mia didn’t live with Soon Yi info, because now I’m thinking about all the Mia treated the adopted kids like slaves allegations.

[Thief]

Actually you posted a silly meme to try knock my idea that has validity. I would've respected a simple "we'll have to agree to disagree."

Hey, that's not a "silly meme", that's Mr. Jerry Seinfeld, sir; and I unleashed it after two instances of you trying to equate two things that are not even in the same ballpark. Damn right I'm knocking that down. My arguments are there on my posts before the "silly meme" for anyone that wants to address them.

[Siddon]

I never thought Soon Yi was Woody’s daughter.

I did used to think he was married to Mia, have been told not way before watching this doc, but they were together over a decade and had children together so I don’t know that they weren’t technically married is a…technicality.

Soon Yi not living with Mia is new information for me even after watching the doc. She adopted her and has abuse allegations regarding Soon Yi. So if she didn’t live with her the abuse allegations are more than a little confusing. I’m not finding anything to that effect so waiting to hear back from Siddon.

I don't think Mia and Woody ever cohabited at any point in their relationship.

Mia/Previn household was three biological sons: twins Matthew and Sascha (born February 26, 1970),[190] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_Farrow#cite_note-191) and Fletcher they then adopted Lark Song Previn and Summer "Daisy" Song Previn and Soon Yi and this was in 1977.

1980 was when Mia dumped Andre and she adopted Moses, in 85 she adopted Dylan (the accuser), and in 87 Woody's biological son came along and that's Ronan. Unless it was Frank Sinatra's kid.

The abuse allegations happened on Farrow's compound in Connecticut. Where she beat Soon Yi with a phone when she was an older teenager and stripped Moses naked infront of his siblings.

Soon Yi and Woody hooked up I believe when Soon Yi started college.

But then again we keep talking about this relationship while ignoring the claims of a seven year old being molested. And if it's right to hound someone until the day they die (he's 87 years old) even though we have all of this exculpatory evidence.

[Citizen Rules]

Hey, that's not a "silly meme", that's Mr. Jerry Seinfeld, sir; and I unleashed it after two instances of you trying to equate two things that are not even in the same ballpark. Damn right I'm knocking that down. My arguments are there on my posts before the "silly meme" for anyone that wants to address them.I thought we were done but now I need to re-explain as you stated categorical that I'm wrong, so:

I'm NOT comparing being gay to Woody & Soon Yi's relationship.

I AM comparing the way society once was uncomfortable with gay relationships so wrongly called them names, just as people are today uncomfortable with Woody & Soon Yi's relationship and are calling them names. That's easy enough to understand.

[Citizen Rules]

Dinner time for me. I'll check back later.

[seanc]

I don't think Mia and Woody ever cohabited at any point in their relationship.

Mia/Previn household was three biological sons: twins Matthew and Sascha (born February 26, 1970),[190] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_Farrow#cite_note-191) and Fletcher they then adopted Lark Song Previn and Summer "Daisy" Song Previn and Soon Yi and this was in 1977.

1980 was when Mia dumped Andre and she adopted Moses, in 85 she adopted Dylan (the accuser), and in 87 Woody's biological son came along and that's Ronan. Unless it was Frank Sinatra's kid.

The abuse allegations happened on Farrow's compound in Connecticut. Where she beat Soon Yi with a phone when she was an older teenager and stripped Moses naked infront of his siblings.

Soon Yi and Woody hooked up I believe when Soon Yi started college.

But then again we keep talking about this relationship while ignoring the claims of a seven year old being molested. And if it's right to hound someone until the day they die (he's 87 years old) even though we have all of this exculpatory evidence.


So they adopted her in ‘77, split in ‘80, and she didn’t live with her? Also, when you mention the “compound”, I’m assuming the adopted kids were in and out?

I’m not tracking the Mia didn’t live with Soon Yi comment, especially when you say I missed it in the doc.

I don’t know what to make of the Dylan stuff, and probably never will. I can say it louder for the fourth time for the folks in the back if I need to?

[Siddon]

So they adopted her in ‘77, split in ‘80, and she didn’t live with her? Also, when you mention the “compound”, I’m assuming the adopted kids were in and out?

I’m not tracking the Mia didn’t live with Soon Yi comment, especially when you say I missed it in the doc.

I don’t know what to make of the Dylan stuff, and probably never will. I can say it louder for the fourth time for the folks in the back if I need to?

Soon Yi came to the US in 77, Mia left the Previn household in 79, Mia started her relationship with Woody in 1980. Woody was "the father" to three of Mia's kids (Moses, Dylan, and Ronen).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okFP4iQrfu8

You see throughout the other documentary that Mia was raising those three kids in Connecticut. The Previn kids were in New York...did they visit obviously. But the idea that Mia/Soon Yi/Woody lived together wasn't true. I also don't think Mia was even raising Soon Yi...another aspect of the documentary was Mia had multiple people working for her.

It's also telling that Mia's white kids still seem to stick together with their mother but the minority children ended up impoverished, suicidal, and estranged from Mia.

[seanc]

You see throughout the other documentary that Mia was raising those three kids in Connecticut. The Previn kids were in New York...did they visit obviously. But the idea that Mia/Soon Yi/Woody lived together wasn't true. I also don't think Mia was even raising Soon Yi...

I never said this and it wasn’t what you asserted. You said Mia never lived with Soon Yi. Now you are saying the three of them didn’t live together (goal post moved). You are now also speculating that “you don’t think” Mia even raised Soon Yi.

Maybe we can admit that this whole situation is rather complicated and dysfunctional?

You appear to be doing the same thing with Mia that you are accusing people of doing with Woody. Both can do immoral things at the same time. Doesn’t have to be one or the other.

[Torgo]

Mr. Death was excellent. I believe there is a film with Timothy Spall as the neo-nazi and Rachel Weisz as a prosecutor (I think). They actually have a scientist debunk Mr. Death's findings in that movie.Looks like it's called Denial and it came out in 2016. Spall plays David Irving and Mark Gatiss plays Van der Pelt, the Holocaust historian. Andrew Scott and Tom Wilkinson are in it, too? Heck of a cast!

Has anyone seen it?

[PHOENIX74]

Looks like it's called Denial and it came out in 2016. Spall plays David Irving and Mark Gatiss plays Van der Pelt, the Holocaust historian. Andrew Scott and Tom Wilkinson are in it, too? Heck of a cast!

Has anyone seen it?

Yeah, I've seen Denial. Hasn't really stuck in my memory that much, aside from Timothy Spall's performance, having the more interesting true-life character to play - and making him look like an arrogant simpleton.

[rauldc14]

World of Darkness

https://img.yts.mx/assets/images/movies/world_of_darkness_2017/large-screenshot1.jpg

It's cool to learn that stuff like this has so many followers and it was cool to see the history and.the progression of it all. As for the documentary itself, it's not bad but maybe it could have made the subject matter a bit more intriguing. Like Siddon said it did kind of seem to bounce around a bit. Just seems like a straightforward informative piece of information rather than an engaging one, but I don't necessarily always see that as a bad thing either.

3-

[PHOENIX74]

https://i.postimg.cc/RFYHgRM5/world-of-darkness.jpg

World of Darkness - 2017

Directed by Giles Alderson

Produced by Henrik Johansson & Kevin Lee

Featuring Dhaunae De Vir, Shane DeFreest & Oliver Dickens

My experience with role playing games begins, and ends, many years ago. Watching World of Darkness brought the intrigue I had with Dungeons and Dragons back to me. I remember devouring the manuals and going over lists of creatures, weapons and potions. Different kinds of treasure, spells and character types. It sounded like a fun thing - and in primary school I had a friend who liked to play it, and tried getting anyone he came into contact with into it. I joined some adventures, and loved the way that you could explore places which would be gradually exposed on a grid map - throwing all kinds of different dice to decide what happened to your character. I eventually lost contact with this kid, and although I tried and tried, I could never get enough of my friends interested to really get into it. It wasn't popular - and eventually rumours started spreading about kids committing suicide and hurting people in real life - which gave Dungeons and Dragons a bad name. My ambitions to really get into it never amounted to anything, and the common ground I had with my friends at school revolved around console or arcade gaming.

In this documentary I got to discover how these role playing games evolved after I gave up on D&D, and how a magazine called White Wolf grew from a photocopied distribution base of around a hundred to hundreds of thousands expanding into a whole role playing conglomerate. White Wolf Publishing produced books and games, and became a success. This expansion centered around the introduction of a Vampire mythos that broke off into a whole subsection of role playing. A series of games under the umbrella title of "World of Darkness" drew a devoted following, and games such as Vampire: The Masquerade became an overnight sensation. Sometimes these games would involve people dressing up as their characters and the invention of a sort of live roleplaying scene developed. Being centered on something I knew virtually nothing about - I'm very vague on the details, and not even sure I have what I've written correct. This documentary moves at breakneck speed through nearly 40 years of role playing game history.

The narrative connects, and it was easy to follow what was going on 90% if the time - I can imagine that when you have hundreds of hours of interviews, editing a documentary out of it must be a challenge. The story is told by each interview subject - a common style which takes the narrator out of the equation. These people are so excited about what they were doing - whether it be the creator of a product or consumer, and their excitement gave me a feeling that I'd missed out on something by being completely ignorant of what went on - I'd never heard of World of Darkness or The Masquerade before. In Australian slang, that means I'm a "Dag" - I'm not informed about trends, and ignorant when it comes to what's cool or any counterculture forces ripping through the old establishment. I see roleplaying shops out there, but walk by them only briefly considering what's going on in there. I usually see kids painting little goblin statues, and think "What's with the painting of the little statues? How does that fit into roleplaying?" I still don't know.

Today, when I think of RPG I think of gaming, and there's a sad kind of coda to the World of Darkness documentary. The company that created the game "EVE" joined forces with White Wolf Publishing in the hopes that a massive World of Darkness online multiplayer game would be created on much the same level. After many years of development, all of the resources were diverted into keeping Eve running - and as such all of the work on the WoD game was flushed down the toilet. The documentary shows us a few demos, and I can state unequivocally that the World of Darkness game would have been a disappointment - I think Eve works because space is a frontier that suits roleplaying characters coming into contact with each other. When you set your game on Earth, in a city, it becomes really tough to build enough of a world to be inviting to millions of people playing at the same time. It becomes bound by it's limited topography. Your mind's imagination is a richer place to explore - and vampire role playing games suit that space more.

So, this was an okay documentary. I was interested in the topic - it's not plugged into what I'm most interested in at this stage of my life, but it was presented in a way that would allow people totally unfamiliar with the concepts to still understand it and follow it - that's always a good thing. Maybe to those that are really into it, the film didn't delve deeply enough into that world, but I have no idea if that's true. It showed us much inspired art, and the way some films have been influenced (if not outright plagiarized) by and from this World of Darkness series of games. I was definitely educated. I don't know much about role playing's origins - so perhaps there should have been a few moments spent on that at the beginning. Ancient strategy games - Chaturanga and Kriegsspiel, just to give us our bearings on a world some of us rarely interact with. If that was done and I missed it - apologies. But other than that - perfectly okay. People were very well interviewed, and the visual representation worked well. The amazing feeling people get, being included in such a tight-knit community - and one with such incredible creativity - is a really good thing, and I love to see people enjoying what they do like these people do.

3

[Torgo]

The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters - 4

It's too bad DodgeBall already claimed the "A True Underdog Story" subtitle, isn't it? Anyways, I love this documentary's nostalgia about arcade culture and its reassurance that it's still alive. Also, while they mostly speak for themselves, I love how colorful the movie makes the characters who are keeping it alive. With that said, the documentary is just as fascinating when it's about arcade game enthusiasts as it is one about how even institutions as harmless as Twin Galaxies are not immune to corruption. On one end, we see how quick its operators are to abandon their standards while reviewing contributions from someone with a stake in them and/or who they fear. It's amusing how much Robert Mruczek's segment about how conscientious he is or the ones revealing how serious Walter Day takes his job contrast with the pivotal Funspot scene, whether it's Billy Mitchell's obviously fraudulent video, Walter Day submissively kneeling on a skee-ball table during their phone call or that oh-so thorough 10-minute review period. On the other end, we see how suspicious and unwelcoming tainted organizations can be to outsiders, i.e., Steve Wiebe. While Twin Galaxies had reasons to question his association with Mr. Awesome, they obviously do not apply the same scrutiny to longtime members, and has there ever been a more obvious toadie in a documentary than Brian Kuh? As for the villain, it's hard to think of a more "love to hate" one in a movie - fictional or otherwise - than Billy Mitchell. As good as the Funspot scene is at presenting contrasts, it gets no better than when the movie weighs Billy's insistence that record seekers play in person against Wiebe's willingness to do just that and Billy's predilection for VHS tapes, not to mention the not-so-climactic moment when they're finally in the same room.

Whether you find the race to achieve the highest score in Donkey Kong or the drama within Twin Galaxies more interesting, you can't deny how entertaining the documentary is on the whole. If it's not the thrilling and funny ways it plays up its "underdog challenging the system" dynamic, it's how it uses classic motivational songs like "Eye of the Tiger," which rivals how Cobra Kai does this. I also like how it rides a fine line at poking fun at these enthusiasts while honoring them at the same time, such as how it reveals how their passion improved their professional lives. In sum, I doubt there will ever be a better documentary about competitive video gaming. Oh, and of all the gaming advice and inspiration Mitchell and Wiebe provide, I'm glad the movie provides what may be the best advice of all: make sure your child or pet goes to the bathroom before you start playing.

[Yoda]

Torgo if you're interested, there've been many developments (lawsuits, countersuits, etc) in the years since that came out. You'll find many (incendiary, it must be said, even though it seems to be justified) videos on Karl Jobst's (https://www.youtube.com/c/karljobst) channel, just a quick search for "Billy" will yield a bunch of updates on all this stuff. It's gotten considerably more dramatic since the film.

[Torgo]

Torgo if you're interested, there've been many developments (lawsuits, countersuits, etc) in the years since that came out. You'll find many (incendiary, it must be said, even though it seems to be justified) videos on Karl Jobst's (https://www.youtube.com/c/karljobst) channel, just a quick search for "Billy" will yield a bunch of updates on all this stuff. It's gotten considerably more dramatic since the film.Thanks, I did see that name come up while looking at the movie's IMDB trivia and Wiki page. I do know Mitchell has been banned from Twin Galaxies for using MAME. A quick glance at that channel looks like that's only the half of it.

Has anyone met him or seen him speak at a gaming expo? A good friend of ours is a filmmaker and arcade YouTuber who has met him and says he's a nicer guy and less of a jerk than you'd think. It's hard to weigh that against how the movie presents him and how litigious he is.

[Yoda]

I just assume all this stuff is slanted. Though I also assume that it's pretty easy for someone to be fundamentally unreasonable but still personable. I know a handful of people who, when you talk to them, are unbelievably friendly, in ways that are impossible to square with their reputations. Just how it goes, I guess. If anything there might be an inverse correlation there, where anyone who acts like this can only continue to exist in the community at large if they come across as candid or charming or friendly in person. Who knows.

[PHOENIX74]

Thanks, I did see that name come up while looking at the movie's IMDB trivia and Wiki page. I do know Mitchell has been banned from Twin Galaxies for using MAME. A quick glance at that channel looks like that's only the half of it.

Has anyone met him or seen him speak at a gaming expo? A good friend of ours is a filmmaker and arcade YouTuber who has met him and says he's a nicer guy and less of a jerk than you'd think. It's hard to weigh that against how the movie presents him and how litigious he is.

I got a bit of feedback when posting my review elsewhere - someone who lived in Hollywood, Florida, spent a lot of time at the Grand Prix Arcade and frequented "Rickey's Restaurant" - the place Billy Mitchell's family owned. He was an acquaintance of his, and shared this anecdote :

"A story to shed some light on Billy's gaming nature and attitude in the 1990's. In the back of his restaurant was a Galaga video game. Of course, Billy's initials were always at least holding the top five spots. On a few occasions somebody did manage to post a higher score and their initials stood above Billy's. But coincidentally this was always short lived and within 24 hours he would have all the top positions again. A waitress from the restaurant revealed that whenever someone had a higher score, Billy would open the machine and reset it, wiping all the initials clear and then he would play it for hours to have his initials fill the screen once again. So I guess this would serve to show his competitive, and a bit sneaky, nature concerning gaming. I would tend to believe more that he did cheat the system in order to maintain this elite Donkey Kong position he had accomplished at such a young age."

[Torgo]

I got a bit of feedback when posting my review elsewhere - someone who lived in Hollywood, Florida, spent a lot of time at the Grand Prix Arcade and frequented "Rickey's Restaurant" - the place Billy Mitchell's family owned. He was an acquaintance of his, and shared this anecdote :

"A story to shed some light on Billy's gaming nature and attitude in the 1990's. In the back of his restaurant was a Galaga video game. Of course, Billy's initials were always at least holding the top five spots. On a few occasions somebody did manage to post a higher score and their initials stood above Billy's. But coincidentally this was always short lived and within 24 hours he would have all the top positions again. A waitress from the restaurant revealed that whenever someone had a higher score, Billy would open the machine and reset it, wiping all the initials clear and then he would play it for hours to have his initials fill the screen once again. So I guess this would serve to show his competitive, and a bit sneaky, nature concerning gaming. I would tend to believe more that he did cheat the system in order to maintain this elite Donkey Kong position he had accomplished at such a young age."Wow. It's not that surprising, but wow.
He's essentially a real-life Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite. Just replace football with classic arcade games.

[Torgo]

Minding the Gap - 4

As hard as this documentary is to watch at times, the experience is enjoyable overall, especially for how honest and genuine it is. I say this even though there are times when it seems made up for how extraordinary it is that these three pals found each other. Granted, their stories are likely similar to several others given the rough state of their hometown, but it's still miraculous given their shared passion for skateboarding and reasons for looking backward that make it difficult to look forward. As for the reason in Zack's opening line, which details the consequences of having the classic masculine ideal foist upon you, it's no mistake that it kicks off the movie, and his home life is as good a demonstration as any as to why such teachings are hard to shake off. It's painful to listen to the recording of his argument with ex-girlfriend Nina in particular, especially since he may not know another way to handle such a situation as a result of these teachings. The friends' accounts of being abused are no less easy to take, especially since they are convincing that they have coped with it at one moment but indicate that they'll struggle with it for the rest of their lives the next.

There are also the ways the documentary conveys the difficulty of having to grow up in a city with few opportunities and that is riddled with crime like Rockford, whether it's the repeated footage of decaying buildings, the empty streets or that being swindled such as in the case of the skate park fiasco is the norm rather than the exception. I also found Bing and Keire's accounts of treating their minority status as a badge of honor fascinating, especially for how Keire explains that being black lets him continuously prove everyone wrong. The documentary ends up being less about skateboarding than its thrilling opening scene implies, but it succeeds at stressing the importance of finding something that provides release and makes you feel free in such dire situations, and it thus made me think about how I do the same whenever I struggle. It ends up being a complete portrait of a generation who have learned the hard way that what paid off for preceding ones won't necessarily pay off for them. Thankfully, as evidenced by the epilogue that shows that things are getting better for all of them, it's a situation that can be survived.

[PHOENIX74]

https://i.postimg.cc/fR3sFhyL/minding-the-gap.jpg

Minding the Gap - 2018

Directed by Bing Liu

Produced by Bing Liu & Diane Moy Quon

Featuring Keire Johnson, Zack Mulligan & Bing Liu


This is something of a remarkable feature debut by filmmaker Bing Liu, who appears to have been recording the lives of two friends, Keire Johnson and Zack Mulligan, along with himself, for quite a number of years. What he captured seems to distill the essence of 21st Century life in the United States for kids, especially guys, who are coming of age. Domestic violence, poverty, parenthood, parental expectations, marriage break-ups, alcoholism, responsibility, racism, friendship, loss, urban decay and education all feature prominently, with all of these issues explored in an intelligent and thought provoking way. Everything has a basis in what these three young people really love : skateboarding. It's while skating that these bonds were forged, and as kids they let out their frustrations, got away from the encroaching demands of their parents, and started to develop a sense of self esteem as they improved their skills while Bing recorded everywhere they went.

As the three advanced into adulthood, even as they took their first steps into independence and separate lives, Liu kept on coming back to interview his two friends, and their parents along with his mother. Edited together, the result speaks volumes and is revelatory - the film's nomination for a Best Documentary Feature Academy Award was warranted, but still must have come as a surprise to the down to earth Liu. Much of what's in the film is very candid. When he interviews his own mother, he's moved to tears when she tries to explain to him that she'd make different choices in her life, knowing what she does now. Liu's stepfather would beat him when she wasn't around, and would also choke and abuse his mother - the scars from these events are all too obviously written on the faces of both parent and child, and it makes you wonder how men can let themselves do the atrocious things they end up doing. Liu wants to know why his mother didn't protect him, and his mother is pained by this and blames herself - but it was up to his step-father and his mother's partner not to torture the two people he supposedly loved.

All of this takes on an even greater import when we manage to peer deeply into Zack Mulligan's story. He's the first one of the three to have fathered a child, and at first he appears set to do his duty, make the sacrifices he must to look after the young boy, and provide for his new family. When his partner, Nina Bowgren, is at work, he looks after the baby and vice versa - but he often finds himself at odds with her when she gets home and demands some time to herself. The fights they both have are recorded by Liu, and the one time Nina really loses her mind during a confrontation Zack has the audio recording to reveal and paint a particular picture. It's only when Nina is alone with Liu and his camera do we hear that Zack is being violent towards her - and all of the sudden we begin to notice moments between them that read completely differently now we have that information. The two are enacting moments we've heard their parents had, and so on seemingly through generations. Domestic violence, and dysfunctional families, seem par for the course - and it's eye-opening to see just how common the problem is.

Keire Johnson at first seems dislocated from the race issues we assume most African American people have to live with - he has been told that despite having white friends, he should never forget that he's black, by his father - and the tragic passing of this figure in his life, one that he never really made peace with, is hard for him to process. Keire's father was particularly hard on him, and it was during a split between father and son that he passed away. Those are the rare fights that are never resolved, due to our mortality. The last thing Keire ever said to his Dad was "I hate you." Still, compared to Zack, Keire he seems the more happy one - with a great sense of humour. At first there are some doubts as to whether he'll adapt to the hard work it takes to enter the workforce - especially the way some African Americans are looked upon by employers. To our considerable relief, Keire ends up thriving - dependable, and very personable, he seems set to earn some security for himself.

The fortunes of the boys wax and wane. Zack drinks and parties too much. They all seem to have been disciplined harshly as kids. They all exist at a challenging time to get by - everything in life seems to have a high price, and the pitfalls are treacherous and many. Everyone's family is touched by divorce and domestic drama, along with health problems and even death. Through Liu's excellent editing (with the help of documentary whizz Joshua Altman) we flow with ease through these people's lives. Nathan Halper adds a reverent feel to the journey of these souls through his piano and keyboard melodies - a spiritual accompaniment through pain, which is uplifting. It really blends in. Liu allows his subjects to share their lives on camera in their own way - and as such it never feels like he's forcing the information out of them, instead letting if flow freely.

A slogan on one of the boy's skateboards is "This Device Cures Heartbreak" - just seeing that sent a pang through my heart, and I'd say one other device is sharing the pain and fear with others. This was a really great film about domestic violence and family trouble - one that speaks to a 21st Century audience. The cure for that isn't as simple, as it has an iceberg-like nature - so much hidden beneath the surface, reacted to with shame, lied about, and accepted. It's made that much worse when people turn to alcohol to try and ease the pain. The generational problems are the hardest to eradicate, and you can see how deeply woven they are into the fabric of the families we see. I can see exactly how skateboarding could be used as an escape - a pastime which requires kids to be on the move, always outdoors and away from home. There, Liu found two friends who accepted and encouraged him, with skateboarding and filmmaking - and he turned their lives into windows through which you can see America's soul.

4.5

[Takoma11]

[CENTER]https://i.postimg.cc/fR3sFhyL/minding-the-gap.jpg

Minding the Gap - 2018

It's only when Nina is alone with Liu and his camera do we hear that Zack is being violent towards her - and all of the sudden we begin to notice moments between them that read completely differently now we have that information.

It's been years since I've seen this film, but a scene that lingers in my mind is when Liu confronts Zack about hitting Nina, and Zack admits it and says something to the effect of having to "put her in her place" or "teach her a lesson" or something like that, and there's just this moment of silence between them. And for me, that silence is Liu processing the fact that his good friend is a domestic abuser. I think part of him was probably hoping that Zack would defend himself, or say that Nina is also violent.

For me that moment was interesting because I personally don't think I could remain friends with someone who was intentionally harming their partner or child in that way. It makes you wonder where that line is for these three young men.

[PHOENIX74]

It's been years since I've seen this film, but a scene that lingers in my mind is when Liu confronts Zack about hitting Nina, and Zack admits it and says something to the effect of having to "put her in her place" or "teach her a lesson" or something like that, and there's just this moment of silence between them. And for me, that silence is Liu processing the fact that his good friend is a domestic abuser. I think part of him was probably hoping that Zack would defend himself, or say that Nina is also violent.

For me that moment was interesting because I personally don't think I could remain friends with someone who was intentionally harming their partner or child in that way. It makes you wonder where that line is for these three young men.

I've been thinking about that. First off, there's nothing worse than when one of our best friends disappoints us - and yeah, the specter of "this person can no longer be my friend" is such a keenly-felt, devastating blow. To lose a great friend hurts enormously. Liu must have felt incredibly sad about where things stood - especially after being abused in the past by his step-father, and knowing what it felt like. Not all of us have the strength needed to go through with severing ties though.

Personally - I had an older brother. 14 years older than me, but he was the sibling I loved the most, because of his infectious and charismatic personality. He died in 1995, at the age of 35, and he had a different, darker side to that personality that he never showed me - but nevertheless I knew enough for us to be completely estranged from each other in the years leading up to his accidental death. Squaring all of the love, hate and loss is all a part of life I guess - it can be paralyzing, confusing and so difficult though. Those of us that find it so natural being decent people are all the more disturbed by it all, and to be robbed of our best friends and siblings because they decide to act that way rubs salt into the wounds. Minding the Gap really does well in bringing the subject into a space where we can confront it.

[Takoma11]

I've been thinking about that. First off, there's nothing worse than when one of our best friends disappoints us - and yeah, the specter of "this person can no longer be my friend" is such a keenly-felt, devastating blow. To lose a great friend hurts enormously. Liu must have felt incredibly sad about where things stood - especially after being abused in the past by his step-father, and knowing what it felt like. Not all of us have the strength needed to go through with severing ties though.

Personally - I had an older brother. 14 years older than me, but he was the sibling I loved the most, because of his infectious and charismatic personality. He died in 1995, at the age of 35, and he had a different, darker side to that personality that he never showed me - but nevertheless I knew enough for us to be completely estranged from each other in the years leading up to his accidental death. Squaring all of the love, hate and loss is all a part of life I guess - it can be paralyzing, confusing and so difficult though. Those of us that find it so natural being decent people are all the more disturbed by it all, and to be robbed of our best friends and siblings because they decide to act that way rubs salt into the wounds. Minding the Gap really does well in bringing the subject into a space where we can confront it.

First, I'm sorry about your brother. Reconciling the different sides--good and bad--of people we love is so incredibly complex.

With Minding the Gap, that complexity comes in the form that this friend--who he now knows is an abuser--was probably one of the things that got him through his rougher years. I think it's also an interesting moment because Liu was probably getting his friend's version of all of those interactions/confrontations, and most likely had created a narrative in his head where Nina was the bad guy. To have that totally spun around must be very disorienting.

[Torgo]

World of Darkness - 3

This is a pretty good documentary about the Vampire: The Masquerade story. I had the privilege of playing the game once, and I would have played it again, but life changes both fortunate and unfortunate put that on hold. I've also played various other tabletop RPGs and used to be a regular convention attendee, so I'm very much this movie's intended audience. I think it mostly succeeds at capturing the appeals of all of the above. I also find it fascinating as a documentary about the challenges of starting and running a tabletop RPG and a gaming business.

The appeals of playing RPGs like Vampire: The Masquerade and attending conventions, the ones that have cosplayers in particular, include getting to connect with like-minded people, the opportunity to visit other worlds and that “letting your freak flag fly” is encouraged rather than condemned. The documentary does a good job at making this evident, especially in the segments where longtime players talk about what the game means to them. I especially like the accounts of the players who said the game helped them cope with life's difficulties such being raised under oppressive conditions or having an ailing parent. The way the movie tells the story of White Wolf and their prized franchise's formation is no less interesting, especially the part about how the trips through the worst parts of Gary, Indiana influenced it. Speaking of influences, it was enlightening how it reveals that the game played a part in the boom in vampire and werewolf stories in the late '90s and early '00s (even though there is a bit more hubris than truth in some of the accounts). I also never got tired of seeing how creative the most devoted players are when it comes to costumes and makeup, and again, this should be required viewing for anyone who has ambitions of following in White Wolf's footsteps.

Even though this is a complete account of the Vampire: The Masquerade phenomenon, as a movie, it's just decent on the whole. It relies too much on a safe, templated and standard issue documentary format for me to consider it a great piece of filmmaking. Plus, it repeats and/or rewords commentary here and there and in ways that do not add much. Since I felt like more of a fly on the wall than a participant when I played the game, I do appreciate how it fills in the blanks, and it's always nice to stroll down the memory lane of my convention-going days (which I hope are just on hiatus and not over). Oh, and I wish I knew when all of those late-night Goth parties were happening in Atlanta! What a blast they would have been.

[rauldc14]

Place de La Republique won't have a replacement and also it will not be an official part of this Hall of Fame. But like I said before I would check it out if you had the chance.

[rauldc14]

Mr. Death

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/niBw8JakaFg/mqdefault.jpg

I didn't really know how to feel with this one. I didn't know much about Fred Leuchter so I was surprised at the turn that this took. I thought it would be all about him and his building gadgets. Seems asinine that he doesn't believe the gas chambers happened but we have seen everything come with a conspiracy theory and honestly who even knows what to believe these days. It was interesting enough but it did feel a bit flat to me too.

3

[KeyserCorleone]

Just a reminder: if that Woody Allen documentary is going to be reviewed on Movieforums, then it really does need to be uploaded to Tmdb / Letterboxd so a page for MoFo can exist.


Isn't someone gonna add it? I don't want to watch a movie I can't review on MoFo or can't add to my list of every movie I've ever seen on Letterboxd. And I can't do it because I was banned on Tmdb.

[beelzebubble]

Isn't someone gonna add it? I don't want to watch a movie I can't review on MoFo or can't add to my list of every movie I've ever seen on Letterboxd. And I can't do it because I was banned on Tmdb.


Okay, spill the tea! Why were you banned from Imdb? Please tell a detailed and dramatic story.

[Torgo]

At another forum, there was a discussion about who should play who in a dramatic adaptation of The King of Kong. Here were the top picks:

Billy Mitchell: Steve Carell or Ben Stiller
Steve Wiebe: Nathan Fillion
Nicole Wiebe: Elizabeth Banks
Walter Day: Christopher Lloyd
Brian Kuh: Michael Cera
Mr. Awesome (Roy Shildt): Robert Englund or Michael Rooker

It's probably too late for this to happen, but what could have been...

[KeyserCorleone]

Okay, spill the tea! Why were you banned from Imdb? Please tell a detailed and dramatic story.


TMDB, and it was because I called out a mod for his rude behavior towards Christians after several attempts to have a discussion about tagging a softcore movie as adult.

[PHOENIX74]

At another forum, there was a discussion about who should play who in a dramatic adaptation of The King of Kong. Here were the top picks:

Billy Mitchell: Steve Carell or Ben Stiller
Steve Wiebe: Nathan Fillion
Nicole Wiebe: Elizabeth Banks
Walter Day: Christopher Lloyd
Brian Kuh: Michael Cera
Mr. Awesome (Roy Shildt): Robert Englund or Michael Rooker

It's probably too late for this to happen, but what could have been...

Great casting. Whoever thought up all of those choices ought to be working in movies. Peter Dinklage played a character based on Billy Mitchell in the Sandler & Co movie Pixels, but I think Ben Stiller would be perfect for that role.

[PHOENIX74]

https://i.postimg.cc/1RY79JSg/won-t-you-be-my-neighbor.jpg

Won't You Be My Neighbor? - 2018

Directed by Morgan Neville

Produced by Morgan Neville, Caryn Capotosto & Nicholas Ma

Featuring Fred Rogers, François Clemmons, Yo-Yo Ma, Joe Negri
David Newell & Tom Junod

Growing up an Australian, I was never aware about the scope and influence of Fred Rogers and his television program Mister Rogers' Neighborhood. The closest we had was probably Play School - but that show doesn't quite match what Fred Rogers was doing with his. Rogers had the unique ability to speak to children about anything. Instead of entertainment, or education, he was connecting with them and unlocking the secrets of the world around us. He did this as if he had an innate ability to, but documentary Won't You Be My Neighbor? doesn't delve too deeply into Fred Rogers' early life - it's primary focus is the television show. As cautious as I feel about making judgements about public figures, he seems almost unimpeachable - great and good of heart, intelligent and gifted with wisdom. At one stage, one of his collaborators directly relates him to Jesus - and although that judgement is usually taken with a sly wink, it's hard not to agree with the fact he had that completeness about him.

I first noticed Fred Rogers in any appreciable way when he appeared very briefly on a television screen in the 1982 Steven Spielberg/Tobe Hooper film Poltergeist - but even that small moment made an impression. The introductory song he sings on his show, "Won't You Be My Neighbor?" just sounded so different. Not in a bad way, or a good way - just the cadence and manner of singing was very strange and unearthly. I went through most of my life knowing little more except that he hosted this American kid's show, but the release of A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood in 2019 filled me in a lot more, and is the perfect film to have seen before watching this documentary. The journalist whose article inspired the film, Tom Junod, even appears in Won't You Be My Neighbor? Now I have a much better idea of who this extraordinary man was.

This is a good documentary - it covers a lot of ground through many different interviews and features many different key moments of Fred's career and life. Two really stand out as extraordinary. Firstly his testimony to the Senate Subcommittee on Communications in 1969, where an obviously nervous Fred Rogers confronts an irritable and gruff John Pastore, but eventually wins him over completely with his wisdom and explanatory skill. Not only did Fred win the day, against all odds, but he also seems to transform the recalcitrant senator, putting a smile on his face. According to Fred Roger's biographer, Maxwell King, the moment is considered "one of the most powerful pieces of testimony ever offered before Congress," and is indeed a remarkable occasion that's a high point of this documentary. Secondly, we get to see Rogers meet Koko the gorilla, which is a touching moment that I think we should have seen just a little more of. For example, it's not explained to us that Koko is removing Rogers' shoes and socks because she's seen that on his television show every day for years - another amazing and touching scene.

Having seen this, it's no longer surprising or strange to consider that Rogers would talk to people via puppets, even adults. Communication seems to have been a powerful tool he'd mastered, and he'd use every method of conveyance he'd learned as useful. Talking to kids, something some adults really struggle with, appeared almost second-nature to him, but it's also something he worked very hard on. Every person interviewed for Won't You Be My Neighbor? appears to relate to us the many different ways that Fred Rogers talked or interacted with others and themselves. Despite his generosity, and service to America's children, we get hints late in this documentary that the lunatic fringe of the American Right have started attacking him for not challenging children to do more and be better, mistaking his "you are perfectly okay as you are" as a motivational issue instead of one regarding self-esteem. As usual from that quarter - bizarre.

Won't You Be My Neighbor? is probably the biggest 'feelgood' contemporary documentary around at the moment. If you're looking for inspiration, or at least want confirmation that there are truly great people that come along once in a while, then it's for you. Knowing nothing about the man, I thought he was still around, but was saddened to see he died in 2003. That might provoke an "of course you silly goat" from American readers, but please note that overseas this really is a man whom you never, ever hear about. A shame - I think his television show would have done just as much good here in Australia as it did in the United States. I loved the Mister Rogers' Neighborhood themed music and general transposition of elements from his show to this doc. I loved seeing moments from his shows, and the sheer joy people seem to have talking about him. It's an easy recommendation to the people I meet when I hear they haven't seen it. It'll make their day a beautiful one.

4

[KeyserCorleone]

Is someone gonna add the movie or not? If not, I'm gonna have to drop out. No offense, but I've worked on my list of every movie I've ever seen for twelve years now, and I want to keep it in a public place that I can use without any problems, and I've been asking for literally more than a month.

[Citizen Rules]

Is someone gonna add the movie or not? If not, I'm gonna have to drop out. No offense, but I've worked on my list of every movie I've ever seen for twelve years now, and I want to keep it in a public place that I can use without any problems, and I've been asking for literally more than a month.Can you get a family member or friend or coworker to sign up and add the movie?

Or can you use a VPN and do it yourself?

[KeyserCorleone]

Can you get a family member or friend or coworker to sign up and add the movie?

Or can you use a VPN and do it yourself?


Are you kidding me? That's just gonna get me IP banned. They'll recognized the IP address as a duplicate. Just because I can't login doesn't mean I don't go there sometimes. I'm not taking that risk.

[Citizen Rules]

Are you kidding me? That's just gonna get me IP banned. They'll recognized the IP address as a duplicate. Just because I can't login doesn't mean I don't go there sometimes. I'm not taking that risk.I thought you were already banned? A family member, friend or coworker should be able to sign up and add the movie for you. Have you asked anyone in RL?

[KeyserCorleone]

I thought you were already banned? A family member, friend or coworker should be able to sign up and add the movie for you. Have you asked anyone in RL?


I just told you. The IP address would be recognized. I was normally banned but not IP banned, and I don't want to make the situation worse. And nobody I'd ask in the real world would know a thing about these websites anyway.

[beelzebubble]

When do we need to complete the Hall of Fame?

[rauldc14]

When do we need to complete the Hall of Fame?

Good question. I have no definite end date but I was thinking mid September.

[rauldc14]

If I knew how to I would add the movie by the way. I think it's insane it's not on there.

[KeyserCorleone]

If I knew how to I would add the movie by the way. I think it's insane it's not on there.


There's a wiki if you need it.


https://www.themoviedb.org/faq/website

[PHOENIX74]

KeyserCorleone - I added By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent to the TMDB

[KeyserCorleone]

KeyserCorleone - I added By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent to the TMDB

I see it on Tmdb and you rated it, but it's not showing up on letterboxd.

[KeyserCorleone]

@KeyserCorleone (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=94296) - I added By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent to the TMDB


So I read the Letterboxd FAQ and found that you can force a temporary input by matching a Letterboxd movie ID's number in the address with the same number from Tmdb. The page is right here: https://letterboxd.com/film/by-the-way-woody-allen-is-innocent/

Thanks for helping me, Phoenix! That was huge for me!

[PHOENIX74]

So I read the Letterboxd FAQ and found that you can force a temporary input by matching a Letterboxd movie ID's number in the address with the same number from Tmdb. The page is right here: https://letterboxd.com/film/by-the-way-woody-allen-is-innocent/

Thanks for helping me, Phoenix! That was huge for me!

No problems, happy to help! Once I perused the instructions you posted a link to I thought, "Hey, I can do that," and indeed I could.

[rauldc14]

Capturing the Friedmans

https://chlotrudis.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/capturing.jpeg

Although the subject matter is quite alarming, this was a very well made documentary. It flowed really well and kept my attention from point A to point B. You never really feel for any of the parties involved because it hits you from so many angles. The editing was really well done too. I don't think I would go out of my way to see it again due to the subject but I'm sure I will see it again eventually.

4

[KeyserCorleone]

Mr. Death

his was the doc I was most interested in for this HoF. I had high expectations for this for one reason: Errol Morris. I adored The Thin Blue Line, and was strongly hoping that the same personal touches and excess detail were there to tell a strong story. This had many similar strong points. The level of detail concerning this man's story is impressive, everything from developing the technology of more humane executions to the varying testimonies of his defense of a Holocaust denier. And among the complexity, Morris still leaves plenty of room for cinematic touches when home videos weren't being played. My only concern is that one could feel emotions, positive or negative, for the subject of The Thin Blue Line, and I found that difficult with this movie. But it's obvious Morris' heart went into this

rating_4_5.

[rauldc14]

35 of the 49 reviews are in! We are basically knocking it out of the park.

[KeyserCorleone]

Capturing the Friedmans


I knew zip about it when I turned it on, so much of the information at the beginning came as a complete surprise. I appreciate how thorough it is, even when it gets to some of the most disturbing details. But as a movie, I can't help but feel its filmmaking quality pails in comparison to Mr. Death. Although, it certainly was more personal than Mr. Death. It's really easy to care for the misses concerning everything she had to go through with all that going on. And everyone else who was (even if it was slightly) involved had their own interesting things to add.


rating_4

[rauldc14]

Won't You Be My Neighbor

This was even better the second time around. Just like It's A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, this doc also seems to seek out wanting to be a better person. It's a very well structured documentary and it's amazing to see the topics that Feed Rogers took on directly with an audience of children. While it's probably not true the guy seemed to not have an ounce of hate in his body or soul.A reminder that not all television is bad too.

4

[KeyserCorleone]

35 of the 49 reviews are in! We are basically knocking it out of the park.


Don't we still need a replacement for Place de La Republique, or did we find a link with proper subs?

[rauldc14]

Don't we still need a replacement for Place de La Republique, or did we find a link with proper subs?

Matt is out. He hasn't participated so there's no need to watch that.

[KeyserCorleone]

OK, So I guess it's King of Kong tonight or tomorrow.

[KeyserCorleone]

I've seen 46 of Woody's films.


******* it, I've only seen 5.

[beelzebubble]

Oh shoot! I guess I need to write some reviews. I’ve seen everything. I’m just lazy. I think #1 will be between Won’t You Be My Neighbor and Capturing the Friedman’s. King of Kong was super fun though in great part to that one guy who loved to play the heel.

[rauldc14]

If anyone knows how to watch Minding the Gap without a Hulu account let me know. That's all I got left.

[Citizen Rules]

If anyone knows how to watch Minding the Gap without a Hulu account let me know. That's all I got left.I got a link check your messages in 5 seconds.

[rauldc14]

I got a link check your messages in 5 seconds.

Thanks. The picture froze the first time around but it should work.

[Citizen Rules]

Let's ask SpelingError if he can find a link for Minding the Gap (2018) He's a wizz at finding links and the one I found isn't working for Raul.

[SpelingError]

I sent raul a few links to the film. If anyone else needs a link, let me know,

[beelzebubble]

Here are my reviews. Such as they are.
Mr. Death (1999, Directed by Errol Morris)
Fascinating look at an intelligent man’s inability to see past his own lack of understanding and change his mind based on new information because being right fed his ego. One wonders whether he shared the anti-Semetic views of the Holocaust deniers while he continues to embrace his disproven thesis.
rating_4_5
Capturing the Friedmans (2003, Directed by Andrew Jarecki)
A look at incest and child sexual abuse running through a family is a very well made film. I saw it long ago. But remember how good it was.
rating_5
King of Kong (2007, Directed by Seth Gordon)
What a lot of fun! I loved the way Billy Mitchell embodied the heel. He really tore into that character and made it his personality.

rating_4_5
World of Darkness (2017, Directed by Giles Alderson)
I was fascinated by the way a RPG group, created their own RPG about vampires and the way it made its way through the RPG fans. It was interesting to see the group try to break into video games. \
rating_4_5
Won't You Be My Neighbor (2018, Directed by Morgan Neville)
Fascinating look at Mr. Rogers, the kindest children’s show host for several decades. Teaching kindness and thoughtfulness to several generations of children.

rating_5
Minding the Gap (2018, Directed by Bing Liu)
I had trouble watching a story about young men from my economic background. I know guys with similar stories. I was happy to see the kid who had the guts to move away from town to Denver, a town with more opportunity. It was sad to see the young couple implode into spousal abuse and drug abuse.

rating_3
By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent (2020, Directed by Rick Worley)
I definitely was on Team Mia before seeing this video. Now I am on the fence. Yes, Woody Allen was never arrested for child sexual abuse. But Dylan Farrow, accuses him to this day. Did Mia brainwash young Dylan? Who knows. But Woody did, sleep with his wife’s adopted daughter, which is just completely unsavory. Whether she was of age or not doesn’t mean much to me. It is, in my opinion, a boundary that shouldn’t be crossed. The beginning of the movie was wearing because it was so relentless in the way it imparted information. I liked it better when it got a little snarky in its humor. Definitely gave me a more nuanced view of Woody and Mia’s relationship as well as his and Soon-yi’s.
3

[rauldc14]

Be sure to send a ranked list when you can!

[seanc]

Be sure to send a ranked list when you can!

I feel very seen at the moment

[rauldc14]

Minding the Gap

https://filmmakermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/minding.jpg

A story of the tragedy of three young men's lives. We get to see them at their darkest moments yet we still get to see them enjoy life in their own way. I think it shines a light on lives having destiny and purpose in a way, even when things seem like they can be out of your control. The kid moving to Denver seems to confirm this in a way, as well as the other that almost moved there and then didn't. For as negative and environment these kids seem to have, the film still gives us hope for its characters and stays uplifting in a way. It certainly is a documentary that is quite unique.

4

[KeyserCorleone]

The King of Kong


I like the general idea a lot. One subculture of the modern world comes together only to see one guy top the other, but the interesting part of the story is what's going on in their minds and occasionally through their personal lives. It has its twists so this documentary feels more cinematic. I don't really think I like Billy Mitchell much as a person, considering his sneaky way of doing things. Still, I wish it was a little MORE personal, and I don't think it had a lot of information I'll be taking with me.


rating_4

[Siddon]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-zvVjCP1Ox4/maxresdefault.jpg

Minding the Gap (2018)

Sigh I know a lot of people liked this one, but this film was just not for me. Over the years I've watched so many of these films I call them poverty porn. This is the story of a group of skateboarders who are I think high school dropouts. A lot of the specific details are murky which is something you don't really want in a documentary. Each of the three young men is dealing with his own problems.

White kid has impregnated his girlfriend, they are in a domestic violence type situation. Both of them seem kinda abusive so the idea of having this baby in the middle is kinda terrifying until an uncle and aunt take in the mom and child. The white kid is also developing a drinking problem and he also starts a skate park which didn't work out because his partner stole all the money and left town. These are compelling stories but we're only seeing them on the surface level.

Asian Kid is the director and he's also from an abusive home life when his mother married some older guy who was near death but also beat him up. He's the director and his scenes with his mom are heart wrenching but he hasn't been established as a character in the story so as the viewer what are we really seeing.

Black kid is the third character he's a bit more defined than the others from a personality POV. His story is more linear his issues are more universal. In his case his dad is dead and he also appears to be the only black guy in his circle of friends. His identity crisis is compelling but the narrative splits between all three characters makes this somewhat of a rough watch.

When judging a documentary film you never want to be left asking questions as to the honesty of the filmmaker.

B-

[Siddon]

https://moviebuffsforever.com/cdn/shop/products/movie-buffs-forever-dvd-mr-death-the-rise-and-fall-of-fred-a-leuchter-jr-dvd-1999-12239739519064_grande.jpg?v=1647559484

Mr. Death: The Rise and Fall of Fred A. Leuchter, Jr.

I always wonder about how two separate thoughts can exist at the same time. On one hand the idea of a Holocaust denier is laughable and atrocious yet on the other hand watching someone have their livelihood destroyed because they did a bad job at something they were qualified to do also kinda turns my stomach.

This is my least favorite of Morris' documentaries just because it's a story told is two distinct points of view and we don't really get the film we need. The big stories are how poorly run executions are from state to state and these Holocaust denying trials. But rather that tell those stories we get this tale of a tragic little man in the middle of it all.

On a practical level the documentary could use a bit of work. When ever I notice a score it's either something wonderful or annoying...this one was annoying. I also think the rise and fall of Lechter could have been handled better by doing more with the relationship he had with his wife and the people who hired him to do the work.

Not to say it's a bad film or even a mediocre one it's relatively good just dated. The subject matter is great, the story flies by and it's compelling.

B

[rauldc14]

One more for Siddon. 3 more for Keyser. Than we good.

[Siddon]

https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/723624234-f5c774160b1e6f0675167224eb9a27077c20d157f3bd3c8ec10eabb8736809ab-d


Won't you be my Neighbor (2018)

One of the things I like about these HOF's is you can see was a well-made Documentary is verses more flawed ones. In Won't You Be My Neighbor we get the story of Fred Rodgers, a TV show producer and host of children's programing from Pittsburgh. This film stays on track with it's direct messaging of this man's life and work.(unlike Mind the Gap). The film varies it's style of storytelling using animation, interviews, and old footage (unlike Woody Allen is Innocent). It spends money on a proper score (unlike Dr Death) and it isn't trying to sell you on something (unlike that Vampire one) and it concludes with a complete story (unlike King of Kong). The fact this film didn't get an Oscar nomination didn't snub the film but it demeaned the award....this could/should have been a BP nom.

It's hard to get into the specifics of what makes this story so powerful. Perhaps it's the way the third act hits you with a gut punch. Putting in 9/11 and Fox News offers a reflection of how the world has changed post Mr Rogers. The tribalism that we experience today seems to be antithetical to Fred's basic Christian messaging. It's a powerful statement that sadly fell on deaf ears.

A+

[rauldc14]

KeyserCorleone is all that stands between us finishing this :)

[KeyserCorleone]

World of Darkness

I had no idea this public larp game was so influential. I myself have tried out the modern-day werewolf vs. vampire thing in a novel I've been slowly working on, but I had no idea that all these famous franchises that focused on that were influenced by that. In fact, watching this documentary is literally the first time I've even heard of anything related to White Wolf.

These guys have had an interesting history, one that played its part in redefining nerdhood and pop culture. A big part of the late-90's and 2000's obsession with darkness and grittiness came from this, for better or for worse. But as far as documentary-making goes, I stayed interested throughout the whole, even thought I didn't find the history itself to be an incredible story. I find it to be a healthy but average outlook on the world of pop culture commercialization and business, one that builds on the gothic atmospheres of the products White Wolf sells, and carries over fairly well despite being a documentary. And I appreciate its attempts at being a more personal story through the larpers' interviews concerning how larping is a way to feel complete and explore one's self. That brought a cool edge to it and shed some light on this vampire game.

rating_4 = 76/100

[rauldc14]

Two more from Keyser and we done.

[KeyserCorleone]

Minding the Gap

OK, it was really easy to connect with this documentary, not because I've been through it before, but because it's a perfect recreation of all the urban horror stories. This captures the ideals of the Blink-182 generation in very upsetting ways, letting us see the extent of how a broken family operates. Some of these stories are absolutely horrifying. However, there is one potential problem: we're only hearing their sides of the story, and we've seen evidence that they may not always be truthful. So while this movie has so much to say, we can't be entirely sure just how reliable it is.


rating_4_5

[KeyserCorleone]

By the way...


******* if this isn't one of the most informative movies I've ever seen. This guy put the entire idea of a tweeter just quoting so-called articles to shame. The guy did RESEARCH, and he has argument after argument after argument that takes into account article after article, quote after quote and even goes deep into human behavior to dissect the whole of it in a very consistent manner. I guess the only flaw is that because he's talking and going so fast, that the documentary is too much to soak in. I'm gonna give this only one of the criticisms I gave to the otherwise great Shoah: it should've been a series.


rating_5

[KeyserCorleone]

We good?

[rauldc14]

We good?

Yes. I can do the unveil tomorrow!

[beelzebubble]

Yes. I can do the unveil tomorrow!
Hello.
Raul.
Anybody home.

[rauldc14]

I'm a slacker. Soon people, soon :)

[KeyserCorleone]

Hello?

[rauldc14]

I'm very bad at forgetting this, my apologies.

[rauldc14]

7th Place

World of Darkness

https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/690957223-99d8b749e96905e2e257cc98f8a433f48517eaf0a3b0ae8b6ed0ac5b83e23162-d_295x166

13 Points

[rauldc14]

6th Place

By the Way, Woody Allen is Innocent

https://variety.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Screen-Shot-2021-03-28-at-9.15.57-AM.png?w=1000&h=563&crop=1

18 Points

[rauldc14]

5th Place

Mr. Death

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/niBw8JakaFg/mqdefault.jpg

29 Points

[seanc]

Feels about right so far. Nothing in this one that I regret watching. It was a good Hall.

[rauldc14]

4th Place

Minding the Gap

https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5b76e8e593b83975deefe25d/16:9/w_2560,h_1439,c_limit/Brody-MindingtheGap.jpg

30 Points

[rauldc14]

Tied for 2nd

King of Kong

https://www.cnet.com/a/img/resize/d1b206d7e7974b4ebd4ef1916be580123c4d0756/hub/2020/06/18/cbb89561-8543-4235-ac7f-e85529c48d52/billy-mitchell-king-of-donkey-kong.jpg?auto=webp&fit=crop&height=675&width=1200

Capturing the Friedmans

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQzDWT6fwyoIvEXqvkiNDZ6TXhW1-0QMG7gGQ&usqp=CAU

33 Points

[rauldc14]

1st Place

Won't You Be My Neighbor

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9JnTVo7U--5Rd31RaKtMSplwGwJVntyyv_g&usqp=CAU

40 Points

[seanc]

Won’t You Be My Neighbor was my #1. Definitely hits me in the feels every time. The top 4 are all timers as far as docs go in my opinion. So I’m not surprised Minding The Gap was the middle of the pack.

[KeyserCorleone]

Thanks for picking my nom, everyone!