Hawkeye (Disney+)

[Yoda]

I like that they're (seemingly) going for a much less self-important vibe with this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABj62PWspaI

[xSookieStackhouse]

im soo excited for it <3 :love:

[Captain Steel]

As a former comic book fan & collector, I have issues with some of Marvel's casting choices.

Jeremy Renner as Hawkeye is one of them.

Nothing against the man or his acting, but he never said Hawkeye / Clint Barton to me.
Renner just seems too mellow or laid back - whereas Hawkeye was always the bad boy of the Avengers; the rebel, the loud mouth, even something of a loose canon from time to time who had problems with protocol and authority.

This is going to sound a bit weird, but after watching episodes of Star Trek Enterprise, someone who struck me as seeming more like the Hawkeye of the comics was Conner Trinneer.

Not the best looking choice (although he was blond), but his character of Trip Tucker on Enterprise seemed more like Hawkeye: friends with the Captain, but often butted heads over orders (Hawkeye in the comics had a long running feud with Captain America over issues with authority although they were friends).

Tucker would sometimes disobey orders, be irresponsible, defy Star Fleet protocol if it meant rescuing his friends, was quick to take an aggressive stance over diplomacy as he had a slight temper, had little compunction about breaking the rules, was often sarcastic, was driven by his passions, and although the most loyal of teammates - he was a little bit of a loose canon himself.

These were all traits of comic book Hawkeye that I felt never really came through as defining traits with Renner.

[gbgoodies]

As a former comic book fan & collector, I have issues with some of Marvel's casting choices.

Jeremy Renner as Hawkeye is one of them.

Nothing against the man or his acting, but he never said Hawkeye / Clint Barton to me.
Renner just seems too mellow or laid back - whereas Hawkeye was always the bad boy of the Avengers; the rebel, the loud mouth, even something of a loose canon from time to time who had problems with protocol and authority.

This is going to sound a bit weird, but after watching episodes of Star Trek Enterprise, someone who struck me as seeming more like the Hawkeye of the comics was Conner Trinneer.

Not the best looking choice (although he was blond), but his character of Trip Tucker on Enterprise seemed more like Hawkeye: friends with the Captain, but often butted heads over orders (Hawkeye in the comics had a long running feud with Captain America over issues with authority although they were friends).

Tucker would sometimes disobey orders, be irresponsible, defy Star Fleet protocol if it meant rescuing his friends, was quick to take an aggressive stance over diplomacy as he had a slight temper, had little compunction about breaking the rules, was often sarcastic, was driven by his passions, and although the most loyal of teammates - he was a little bit of a loose canon himself.

These were all traits of comic book Hawkeye that I felt never really came through as defining traits with Renner.


It sounds more like Trip Tucker would have been a good choice for Hawkeye, not necessarily Conner Trinneer.

[Captain Steel]

It sounds more like Trip Tucker would have been a good choice for Hawkeye, not necessarily Conner Trinneer.

LOL! Absolutely! :D

[John McClane]

Just an excuse for them to say they got Christmas themed Marvel **** now.

I really don’t think this series is necessary, but I’ll happy to be proved wrong like I was with Loki.

Still…I am so sick of Marvel. Just give me the newest Spider-Man already 💀

[DerrickJr]

After having watched, most of the first two episodes, I can say, I'm impressed and optimistic about its future, and this is coming from someone who's increasingly found Marvel and DC productions repetitive copy pastes reliant on a fairly ageing blueprint. I can't profess to have watched all of the Marvel Disney+ miniseries, but this does match up well to, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. This show has some of what some of the recent Marvel entries had somehow missed, effortless fun and humour.

[xSookieStackhouse]

After having watched, most of the first two episodes, I can say, I'm impressed and optimistic about its future, and this is coming from someone who's increasingly found Marvel and DC productions repetitive copy pastes reliant on a fairly ageing blueprint. I can't profess to have watched all of the Marvel Disney+ miniseries, but this does match up well to, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. This show has some of what some of the recent Marvel entries had somehow missed, effortless fun and humour.

make sure to watch episode 3 before episode 4 releasing this wensday, hoping to see yelena belova on it.
u need to watch loki,wandavision also.

[Cryptic]

I'm impressed so far with episodes 1-3. It has what several of the latest movies and other series was lacking, some heart. Its found that blend of action and humor again from earlier MCU outings. I'm going to stick with it and see if it can maintain its stride.

[xSookieStackhouse]

I'm impressed so far with episodes 1-3. It has what several of the latest movies and other series was lacking, some heart. Its found that blend of action and humor again from earlier MCU outings. I'm going to stick with it and see if it can maintain its stride.

hoping yelena belova is on it

[Cryptic]

hoping yelena belova is on it

Absolutely, i liked her in BW :-).

[xSookieStackhouse]

Absolutely, i liked her in BW :-).

same here shes one of my least favorites

[Yoda]

Two episodes in, and this is clearly just better than the other MCU shows so far.

The thing about the others is that they have the feel of good MCU films, and occasionally the production value, but the quality of the writing is just straight-up missing. It's so weird. There'll be this cadence where the show tells you "here comes a great line," and the line that comes out is kind of just...nothing. Not clever or memorable. But all the music and cinematographic cues around it suggest the show "thinks" it's good. Very disconcerting.

Hawkeye, though, has some genuinely good writing, strong dialogue, and just seems better-acted than most of them, too. This is the kind of general quality I was hoping all their shows would have.

It also have a clear sense of what it wants to be, I think. I'd kinda describe it as the MCU doing a spy show. It has a real stealth/Bond kinda vibe that I'm really digging so far.

[John McClane]

It also have a clear sense of what it wants to be, I think. I'd kinda describe it as the MCU doing a spy show. It has a real stealth/Bond kinda vibe that I'm really digging so far.Agreed with everything up til this: I think they want it to be their Christmas shot.

Marvel boardroom:

"Hey, you know what we haven't done?"

"What's that?"

"A holiday special."

"Oh god, you mean like that Star Wars trash?"

"No, no, we're Marvel. We'll do it better"

[ynwtf]

I haven't seen a proper trailer yet but the clip that keeps playing before some streaming shows I have been watching was pretty good and clever. It's the clip where Hawkeye and someone are walking through a crowd and you hear a kid (or mom?) shout in the background something like, "Oh it's a superhero!" and Hawkeye pauses and turns awkwardly trying to figure out if they're referring to him or not as the kid runs past him up to two people in superhero costumes. That was a really nice bit and as subtle as it all is, I thought Renner played the dopey reluctant hero almost accepting his role (for the kids) only to be dismissed and left behind spot on. That scene felt like it could belong to any good action hero movie rather than another potentially generic series riding the momentum of a theatrical franchise.

If that's any indication of the quality for the show then I think I will enjoy it. My only hesitation is MCU (and Disney, to a degree) burnout.

[Takoma11]

Two episodes in, and this is clearly just better than the other MCU shows so far.

The thing about the others is that they have the feel of good MCU films, and occasionally the production value, but the quality of the writing is just straight-up missing. It's so weird.

Having watched the first two episodes, I'd agree that the writing is stronger than Loki, though I thought that Wandavision was pretty well written.

What I think the show has mostly gotten right is the balance between some sense of real stakes (Kate worrying about the guy her mom is marrying, Clint dealing with how much time he misses with his family) and a fun sense of irreverence.

That said, sometimes it goes too cutesy, in my opinion. The sequence with the LARP group, for example, I thought was just kind of silly. And some of the banter (like the back and forth about how hard it is to find a good warehouse "lair" in modern New York) walks a fine line for me.

Also, does it seem to anyone else as if the evil stepfather is a massive red herring and it's going to turn out that the mom is a villain?

[Yoda]

Yeah, you're right on that last point: they've left themselves the pretty lame options of either going with the mustache-twirling cliché or some clumsy subversion that isn't shocking because the ostensible villain is too obvious to be taken seriously.

[Takoma11]

Yeah, you're right on that last point: they've left themselves the pretty lame options of either going with the mustache-twirling cliché or some clumsy subversion that isn't shocking because the ostensible villain is too obvious to be taken seriously.

So maybe I'm totally off-base, but once I started thinking about it:


There's a lot of stuff about the mom having Kate's life all planned out

Mom runs the big security agency with all the resources

Mom was the one who was threatened by the uncle before he was killed.

And to go really dark: Right as she and the husband were fighting about money in the past, the dad gets killed and we never saw the dad die AND the mom just sort of came out of nowhere to grab little kid Kate.

One thing that I'm still trying to settle on is how I feel about the parent dynamic themes of the show. Like, obviously Hawkeye is serving as a father surrogate for Kate. She idolized her dad, and she's driven by the need to protect her family. Now, I am not a big fan of the way things are presented in the beginning, where the mom is the "bad one" for talking about selling the house because of their financial difficulties and the dad is the "good one" being like "Just believe and things will work out!". Like, sir, they do not. At a certain point, you have to pay your mortgage. But Hawkeye himself has been presenting a more pragmatic, realistic side. I just don't like it when people who are realistic and practical are seen as being villains in opposition to characters who are optimistic and imaginative. You need to have a balance of those two things.

So I'm interested to see where the show comes down on both Hawkeye and the mom in terms of their relationship to Kate.

[John McClane]

Wait, I thought the villain was Santa Claus?

[ynwtf]

Wait, I thought the villain was Santa Claus?

nono. you're thinking Happy!

[ynwtf]

So maybe I'm totally off-base, but once I started thinking about it:


There's a lot of stuff about the mom having Kate's life all planned out

Mom runs the big security agency with all the resources

Mom was the one who was threatened by the uncle before he was killed.

And to go really dark: Right as she and the husband were fighting about money in the past, the dad gets killed and we never saw the dad die AND the mom just sort of came out of nowhere to grab little kid Kate.

One thing that I'm still trying to settle on is how I feel about the parent dynamic themes of the show. Like, obviously Hawkeye is serving as a father surrogate for Kate. She idolized her dad, and she's driven by the need to protect her family. Now, I am not a big fan of the way things are presented in the beginning, where the mom is the "bad one" for talking about selling the house because of their financial difficulties and the dad is the "good one" being like "Just believe and things will work out!". Like, sir, they do not. At a certain point, you have to pay your mortgage. But Hawkeye himself has been presenting a more pragmatic, realistic side. I just don't like it when people who are realistic and practical are seen as being villains in opposition to characters who are optimistic and imaginative. You need to have a balance of those two things.

So I'm interested to see where the show comes down on both Hawkeye and the mom in terms of their relationship to Kate.

Yeah, I finished ep3 last night over a two-night binge and have to say your list was pretty much my mental checklist as it played out. Like, "Huh. That's convenient, the fiancé was menacing but dude, her RED DRESS (or whatever the technical fashion term for that is, I could not say), SCREAMS villain!!"

For whatever it's worth though, I took the father to be the "bad guy" in the opening argument, being unrealistically idealistic and aloof in his financial responsibilities (or whatever the argument was). When he left to check on the daughter, I took that as more of a nod that he's literally running away from the argument in a way, as he is probably also running away from his responsibilities leaving the mother to be the realist. So from that specific sequence, I felt she was more the adult in the room and probably the only one of the two capable of resolving their problems. Or cutting the string to her problem, which could have been him.

Most of everything after that scene in which the mother collected her daughter during the attack landed exactly opposite of that initial feeling with me. I totally expect her to be the phantom menace here.

I am enjoying the show for the most part. The new fiancé is a silly caricature though and is driving me mad. It's kind of funny that the writers made a point in which the daughter jokes after Hawkeye names the Tracksuit Mafia with, "That's a bit too on the nose isn't it?" Or something similar. So is the fiancé, IMO.

At first I was concerned that the daughter would continually make silly decisions that were only presented to move the story forward. That still may come to be, but so far I'm buying her over eagerness and clumsy approach in not really considering her decisions through to the ultimate consequences of her choices. It makes sense at her age and feels mostly believable. I'm worried that that will become a nuisance very soon though.

I am also enjoying the use of sound in that Clint is hearing impaired. Hopefully that will play more of a role other than filler for drama of the moment. That was a sweet moment on the phone with his son. I would like to see more of that.

Editing has been the weakest link for me. Some cuts have made scenes feel very B or even daytime drama quality. I'm not sure why that's standing out, but the fight scene when the girl is "in suit" and running through the street only to bump into the Tracksuit Mafia crew (again) really irritated me. Mostly, it was after Clint appeared and cuts were made from overhead looking down on the action, to inside the car looking out through a snow-crusted windshield, then outside to the side of the action to then repeat the cut sequence. I understand that we need to feel as helpless and confused from her perspective from within the car during the fight, but one shot was enough to suggest that. Especially considering how nice the overhead shot was and how disorienting the remaining shots were. There was no fluid visual continuity there IMO. Other scenes were more comfortable, so maybe that was just a one-off.

These will probably be my only real comments on the show as I just realized that I'm giving this MCU "series" more thought that I have other deserving movies, yet again.

le sigh.

[TONGO]

I finally have gotten around to watching this. Was slow to because I heard so much bad about it, but after Love & Thunder I thought Id give it a shot. After L&T anything , simply anything was worth giving a watch. Didnt like it at first but in ep 3 now and am surprisingly enjoying it. I like Hailee Steinfeld (she was pure money in True Grit), and shes the only reason I can accept the Kate Bishop character. Fanboys with no appreciation for the craft of acting probably wont give her that appreciation curve.