Rioting in the U.S.

[Mesmerized]

I thought I'd create a topic about what's happening in the U.S. if anybody wants to talk about it. The rioting which began with the murder of George Floyd is getting worse.




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[Yoda]

Preemptively:

This is about a current/important event, so that's fine. It's subject to being closed if and when it gets too heated, starts going around in circles, or becomes an excuse to bring up stuff already discussed regularly in past political (closed) threads. This is a movie site, after all, and that's what we're trying to be about. Threads like this must exist sometimes out of necessity, but only insofar as they don't interfere with the movie part.

Okay, disclaimer done. :)

[Mesmerized]

I was watching the news last night and saw how the violence is escalating. It's starting to feel like Armageddon.

[Mr Minio]

People: Police uses too much violence!
Police: Uses even more violence.

[Mesmerized]

People: Police uses too much violence!
Police: Uses even more violence.

I guess the police think they're above everyone and can do whatever they want. If they had arrested Chauvin on the spot, I doubt there would be all this rioting.

[ashdoc]

Rioting at the time of coronavirus !! This free for all could spread the virus even more.

I hope the riots don't have a Chinese connection. China in this situation is set to benefit maximum from any weakening of the US .

[Mesmerized]

Rioting at the time of coronavirus !! This free for all could spread the virus even more.

I hope the riots don't have a Chinese connection. China in this situation is set to benefit maximum from any weakening of the US .

Yeah, I guess these rioters think they're immune to the coronavirus.

The term Antifa is being used to describe the rioters. To me they're terrorists. I doubt there's any connection to the Chinese.

[Citizen Rules]

Rioting at the time of coronavirus !! This free for all could spread the virus even more.

I hope the riots don't have a Chinese connection. China in this situation is set to benefit maximum from any weakening of the US .A Chinese connection to the riots??? Here we go again...

[Stirchley]

I guess the police think they're above everyone and can do whatever they want.

For heaven’s sake, let’s not generalize. First people we call when we’re in trouble is the police!

The term Antifa is being used to describe the rioters. To me they're terrorists.

So you don’t like the cops & the rioters are “terrorists”. Pick a side!

[Mesmerized]

For heaven’s sake, let’s not generalize. First people we call when we’re in trouble is the police!



So you don’t like the cops & the rioters are “terrorists”. Pick a side!


I'm referring to cops like Chauvin. Certainly not all cops are bad. Terrorists are always in the wrong.

[Mesmerized]

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[Citizen Rules]

From my limited knowledge...the 'rioting' is more about looting and vandalism, then about righting an injustice.

It seems to have escalated into the same mindless violence that the 'anarchist' movement caused a few years ago. The same elements seemed to be involved again too.

The police forces around America haven't done much at all to stop the wholesale destruction of business and properties. IMO they've been way too passive. One FBI agent was killed and another wounded, many cops have been wounded too.

The original killing of the black suspect, was wrong, very wrong. But destroying and killing innocent people is also very wrong. It's time for the National Guard to step in and use force if necessary. This disrespect for society's rules needs to stop now.

[Stirchley]

What I can never understand is the looting or - even worse - burning down of their neighbors’ small businesses. Many business owners are begging them to stop because they have no insurance.

[Mesmerized]

What I can never understand is the looting or - even worse - burning down of their neighbors’ small businesses. Many business owners are begging them to stop because they have no insurance.

I don't understand it either, but it seems to happen whenever there's a major protest. IMO, I think there may be an evil satanic element involved, and satanists thrive on fear and are the cause of chaos. Last night when I was watching the news, I saw someone walk past the camera displaying what I believe to be a satanic hand signal - the middle and ring fingers were folded down leaving the index and pinky pointing up. Of course it could mean something else. I'm just guessing here.

[Yoda]

Yeah, however righteous the cause, protesting on a certain scale (and of certain things) is pretty much always used by people of bad faith as an excuse to destroy and loot. And destroy and loot not just people who have nothing to do with the injustice, but sometimes even people supporting the protesters!

Managing to support the protest while still condemning this is a level of nuance that most people seem confusingly incapable of, too, as if the fear of not being seen as fully supportive of the cause is enough to stop them from condemning inarguably heinous actions that emerge from it, even indirectly.

[Citizen Rules]

I don't understand it either, but it seems to happen whenever there's a major protest. IMO, I think there may be an evil satanic element involved, and satanists thrive on fear and are the cause of chaos. Last night when I was watching the news, I saw someone walk past the camera displaying what I believe to be a satanic hand signal - the middle and ring fingers were folded down leaving the index and pinky pointing up. Of course it could mean something else. I'm just guessing here.And you're guessing wrong. You're letting your own phobias cloud your decision making process. I assure you that the riots are not caused by Satanist.

[Stirchley]

I don't understand it either, but it seems to happen whenever there's a major protest. IMO, I think there may be an evil satanic element involved, and satanists thrive on fear and are the cause of chaos. Last night when I was watching the news, I saw someone walk past the camera displaying what I believe to be a satanic hand signal - the middle and ring fingers were folded down leaving the index and pinky pointing up. Of course it could mean something else. I'm just guessing here.

Everyone needs to recite the Saint Michael prayer. ✝️ :cool:

[Mesmerized]

Everyone needs to recite the Saint Michael prayer. ✝️ :cool:

It's prayed at the end of most every Mass now.

[Citizen Rules]

Everyone needs to recite the Saint Michael prayer. ✝️ :cool:Everyone does not need to follow your particular faith:rolleyes:

[Stirchley]

It's prayed at the end of most every Mass now.

I know. I really like it. Very apropos.

[John McClane]

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZWJlMTY3OWQtOTU3OC00ODgzLWEwOTYtZGQ3ZGI5ODY5MzQyXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjk3NTUyOTc@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,16 09,1000_AL_.jpg

"If you're not cop, you're little people." -Bryant

Only posting in here once.

First things first: Turn off the news media and start watching videos from people on the ground. The media has an agenda they are going to push. The current administration has an agenda they are going to push. They are both already doing it, so if you want to see what is truly going on you need to turn to citizen shot footage.

Secondly, the majority of looting/violence/unrest is being perpetrated by far-left and far-right groups to push their own agendas. We've got billionaires busing people into these cities to promote upheaval. White supremacist organizations are actively infiltrating crowds and enciting violence. Antifa splinter cells are organizing supply chains and sowing chaos, as well.

This is straight up terrorism, and it is NOT domestic terrorism. These perpetrators are being funded and supported by international organizations. White supremacy is a serious international issue and we are doing nothing to combat it.

For the second time in the last 4 years we are seeing interference from international hate groups. This is a far bigger issue than police brutality. We are fighting international terrorist organizations that sow and revel in violence.

Finally, police militarization is a serious issue, and it's precisely why these groups WANT this type of unrest. Police units have amassed weaponry to an unprecedented scale, and police unions have actively thwarted thousands of investigations with collective bargaining.

And our courts are too spineless to reestablish the rule of law.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2020/05/13/should-cops-accused-of-stealing-over-225000-have-legal-immunity-supreme-court-urged-to-hear-case/#78dd87e12877

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-police-immunity-scotus/

I urge everyone to be safe if you are protesting. This is all some serious deep state ****.

Black Lives Matter

[cricket]

I blame the media for a lot of this crap. The murder of George Floyd had nothing to do with race but all they talk about is the racial injustice. That doesn't make what happened any less evil but call it what it is. I'm so sick of everything being automatically attributed to race. It's disgusting. What's the excuse for Daniel Shaver's murder and so many others? Racism is a problem but it's not the problem here. Misidentify the problem and it won't be solved. Police, most of which are wonderful, need to be trained differently, and they need to treat the public like they are their customers. With most jobs, if you talk smack to a customer, you can be fired. There needs to be more mutual respect to start with and then build upon that. This officer was written up how many times? He should've been gone long ago.

[Mesmerized]

Only posting in here once.



Are you sure?

[Mesmerized]

Attorney General William P. Barr has issued the following statement:

“The greatness of our nation comes from our commitment to the rule of law.

The outrage of our national community about what happened to George Floyd in Minneapolis is real and legitimate. Accountability for his death must be addressed, and is being addressed, through the regular process of our criminal justice system, both at the state and at the federal level. That system is working and moving at exceptional speed. Already initial charges have been filed. That process continues to move forward. Justice will be served.

Unfortunately, with the rioting that is occurring in many of our cities around the country, the voices of peaceful protest are being hijacked by violent radical elements.

Groups of outside radicals and agitators are exploiting the situation to pursue their own separate and violent agenda.

In many places, it appears the violence is planned, organized, and driven by anarchistic and far left extremists, using Antifa-like tactics, many of whom travel from out of state to promote the violence.

We must have law and order on our streets and in our communities, and it is the responsibility of the local and state leadership, in the first instance, to halt this violence. The Department of Justice (including the FBI, Marshals, ATF, and DEA), and all of our 93 U.S. Attorneys across the country, will support these local efforts and take all action necessary to enforce federal law.

In that regard, it is a federal crime to cross state lines or to use interstate facilities to incite or participate in violent rioting. We will enforce these laws.”

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-william-p-barr-s-statement-death-george-floyd-and-riots

[mark f]

I guess I shouldn't bring up the Louisville police shooting death of a black man this morning and the subsequent firing of the police chief.

[Captain Steel]

What's boggling is not one person (that I know of or have heard in any from of media) of any color, social status or political affiliation has defended the cop who killed George Floyd or the other cops present that failed to intervene.

No one has attempted to rationalize or justify what was captured on that 9 minute video.

Every media network that voices opinions has agreed (for the first time in a long time) this was horrible! Every person from the President to his opposing candidate, down to other cops themselves have expressed it was an appalling act injustice.

Yet, right now, untold thousands of completely innocent citizens are being victimized, assaulted, robbed, beaten and having their property & businesses utterly and permanently destroyed for no reason by rioting criminals, when everyone agrees with the cries of "justice for George."

[cricket]

I guess I shouldn't bring up the Louisville police shooting death of a black man this morning and the subsequent firing of the police chief.

7 people were shot there Thursday during protests but it doesn't seem to be big news. It's all bad as far as I'm concerned.

[cricket]

Don't know who this cop is but he's awesome

https://youtu.be/ykDvAkURTKY

[MovieBuffering]

Glad I live in the middle of nowhere so I don't have to deal with any of this silliness.

I had to get rid of FB. I think my twitter is next. Everyone and their Granny had their two cents. What's stupid is literally nobody disagrees that it was disgusting and and dude should be in jail and will be. So what is the point of all this?

For what it's worth if you actually look at the numbers .000003% of Americans were killed by police last year. Even less if you just count the brothers. If you add up African Americans and Hispanics killed by police the last two years combined it doesn't equal Caucasians in the same time period. Then you factor in justified force and the number gets even lower. You were about 10 times more likely to get killed by black on black crime last year than a cop.

Man I am all for some police reform and law reform. You feel more paranoid then protected when police are around. Hopefully we come out of this better, but it feels like this divide is here for a long time.

[MovieBuffering]

Don't know who this cop is but he's awesome

https://youtu.be/ykDvAkURTKY

Lol if I am not mistaken that is Grady Judd. Polk County police chief in Florida...not too far away from me. I'd listen to Bubba The Love Sponge out of Tampa occasionally and he would sometimes be on his show ha.

[MonnoM]

I mean, if falling for and/or perpetuating falsehood became awesome all of a sudden then sure. the "Antifa" threat of breaking into homes is complete bull****. This started from a few specific twitter accounts. Whether they're Trump supporters or just doing it for ****s and giggles (both?) isn't certain, but it's certainly fake. You could tell before it even hit the news.

[cricket]

I mean, if falling for and/or perpetuating falsehood became awesome all of a sudden then sure. the "Antifa" threat of breaking into homes is complete bull****. This started from a few specific twitter accounts. Whether they're Trump supporters or just doing it for ****s and giggles (both?) isn't certain, but it's certainly fake. You could tell before it even hit the news.

I would just take your word for it because that part doesn't matter to me. It's the take no shlt attitude that does.

[MonnoM]

I would just take your word for it because that part doesn't matter to me. It's the take no shlt attitude that does.


I get it. We're an emotional species and so we're easily persuaded by words that evoke a strong emotional response. That's a problem. This guy's a cop and I would expect someone in his profession to do some research or something before going on camera and spewing nonsense.

[cricket]

I get it. We're an emotional species and so we're easily persuaded by words that evoke a strong emotional response. That's a problem. This guy's a cop and I would expect someone in his profession to do some research or something before going on camera and spewing nonsense.

There's a lot of organized rioting and looting, and cities are burning down. Lowlifes are getting away with it because the wimps in charge are being lax. That's not the way it should be.

[Mesmerized]

There's a lot of organized rioting and looting, and cities are burning down. Lowlifes are getting away with it because the wimps in charge are being lax. That's not the way it should be.

Organized anarchy. It seems almost like an oxymoron. If the situation gets any worse, someone ought to declare Martial law.

[MovieBuffering]

There's a lot of organized rioting and looting, and cities are burning down. Lowlifes are getting away with it because the wimps in charge are being lax. That's not the way it should be.

lol not too mention Biden and Steve Carrell and some others are bailing out some of these rioters. Basically encouraging it. Hopefully they did their homework and only bailed out peaceful protesters but I seriously have my doubts.

[cricket]

lol not too mention Biden and Steve Carrell and some others are bailing out some of these rioters. Basically encouraging it. Hopefully they did their homework and only bailed out peaceful protesters but I seriously have my doubts.

I hate to say it, but when you look at social media, and the messaging by the people in the middle of it all, it looks democrat/liberal driven. Maybe that's just because I'm in Massachusetts otherwise known as liberal hell.

[Captain Steel]

Yeah, however righteous the cause, protesting on a certain scale (and of certain things) is pretty much always used by people of bad faith as an excuse to destroy and loot. And destroy and loot not just people who have nothing to do with the injustice, but sometimes even people supporting the protesters!

Managing to support the protest while still condemning this is a level of nuance that most people seem confusingly incapable of, too, as if the fear of not being seen as fully supportive of the cause is enough to stop them from condemning inarguably heinous actions that emerge from it, even indirectly.

I don't always agree with you, Chris (especially about certain board politics), but this was a damn good post!

[MovieBuffering]

I hate to say it, but when you look at social media, and the messaging by the people in the middle of it all, it looks democrat/liberal driven. Maybe that's just because I'm in Massachusetts otherwise known as liberal hell.

lol I was seeing a girl who lived right outside NYC and worked in the city at the end of last year. I was planning to move up there after the holidays. Had a job lined up. But the relationship fell apart after Xmas. Saved me from being in that COVID cesspool and I work in healthcare. Plus I don't think I can live in such a blue state. God bless people who can, I like my no state income tax :laugh:.

[Mesmerized]

I hate to say it, but when you look at social media, and the messaging by the people in the middle of it all, it looks democrat/liberal driven.

No doubt.

[ashdoc]

The far left in my country India at least has some ideological connection with China and takes a pro China stance in many India China disputes. Reason is that China is at least officially a communist state though it has given up communist economic policies for a long time now.

The far left connection in these riots makes me wonder of some Chinese influence on those rioters . Is China stirring up trouble in anticipation of backlash from america over coronavirus?

[resopamenic]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-01/china-trolls-u-s-over-riots-after-trump-criticized-hong-kong

[AdamUpBxtch]

What's funny is my town in WV just had a peaceful protest a day ago and literally nothing was burned down. Only one guy was arrested and it was a guy who got out of his car and tried to fight the protesters because they were blocking the road. Everywhere else is getting way outta hand. One witness in Dallas described the city as a "warzone" with the FBI coming in with drones being used and shutting down the whole city.

Obviously my town is big but not the size of ones like NY, LA, DC, Dallas, or Chicago so im not surprised if this is being escalated by certain organizations infiltrating protests in these bigger cities.

[Mr Minio]

Breaking Geneva Convention. Kewl.

EDIT: Apparently they're not. Sorry for misinformation.

[gandalf26]

My take on the problem with the US Police,

-You have 50 sovereign states all with differing laws.
-In each state you have State Police, bigger cities have their own dept, and County Sheriffs, then various Federal agencies.
-So, over 3000 sheriff "fiefdoms" elected by the community, I'm not sure if State Superintendents are elected or not.

So the problem with the above is inconsistency, as far as I'm aware all European countries have 1 police force, divided into areas/counties with their own commissioners, but all answerable to Government.

So all it takes is a couple of bad areas led by bad cops, or elected by good God fearing folk to keep the "lower class" citizens in line. Go to Netflix right now and you can find dozens of documentaries about shocking miscarriages of justice.

Then to compound the problem,

-Shocking lack of punishment against Police unless there is a video.
-Thin Blue Line, Brothhood mentality, us vs them, anyone who dares inform against another cop will suffer(see officer fired for stopping officer choking suspect).
-Militarization of Police, are they the army or there to protect their communities? It isn't clear sometimes. How many people or pets have to die in over aggressive no knock raids?
-Financial cost of fighting back against injustice, and laws making it near impossible to sue Police.
-Awful Police Unions who fight tooth and nail for the very worst officers.
- Low or virtually non existant educational requirements in the US to become a Police officer.

I believe the vast majority of Police are likely decent folk but the setup in the US makes it too easy to be a bad cop and get away with it, particularly in rural southern areas.

[cricket]

Good post^^and yes it's important to remember the innocent pets.

[gandalf26]

Good post^^and yes it's important to remember the innocent pets.

There's some awful videos out there. Family get raided due to a bad tip off and some incompetent Officer playing Rambo shoots the small family dog LOCKED IN ITS CAGE! They find about 1 spliff worth of Marijuana.

Another one they raid a town Mayor by mistake and shoot his labrador. Why shoot a barking scared dog? Same thing as shooting someone running away that is no threat.

[cricket]

There's some awful videos out there. Family get raided due to a bad tip off and some incompetent Officer playing Rambo shoots the small family dog LOCKED IN ITS CAGE! They find about 1 spliff worth of Marijuana.

Another one they raid a town Mayor by mistake and shoot his labrador. Why shoot a barking scared dog? Same thing as shooting someone running away that is no threat.

I've seen some of these and they make me ill.

[Bretfromhope]

Here is my issue with this:

How come in all the cases (Such as these), it's always someone "resisting" an officer? If an officer tells me to stop, you better believe I'll stop. Even that young Trayvon Martin guy got in a physical altercation with a security guard (ZImmerman).

Why not just be respectful and walk away?

Why push an officer over the edge? They wake up and deal with horrible situations. That's there lives. Why are you messing with them?

Hasn't anyone heard "Don't start nothing, won't be nothing?".

When you mess with a cop by "resisting", then you asked for it.

Why disrespect someone who's line is literally on the line every single day.

Also, it's never a Chinese person or some Indian immigrant?. If someone is racist, they are racist to everybody.

Why it's usually an African American who is the victim?

I don't think it's an external issue, this is an internal issue within the African American community.

[MovieGal]

We have had several nights of protest here about this issue. The Plaza area was vandalized Saturday night and Sunday, the news showed the protest. Everything was under control until the 8 pm curfew then a few individuals started throwing frozen water bottles at the police officers. I just couldn't believe it. Our mayor was all for the protest but then people disrespect him and the city by acting out when it was a curfew. **shakes my head**

[Citizen Rules]

Here is my issue with this:

How come in all the cases (Such as these), it's always someone "resisting" an officer? If an officer tells me to stop, you better believe I'll stop. Even that young Trayvon Martin guy got in a physical altercation with a security guard (ZImmerman).

Why not just be respectful and walk away?

Why push an officer over the edge? They wake up and deal with horrible situations. That's there lives. Why are you messing with them?

Hasn't anyone heard "Don't start nothing, won't be nothing?".

When you mess with a cop by "resisting", then you asked for it.

Why disrespect someone who's line is literally on the line every single day.

Also, it's never a Chinese person or some Indian immigrant?. If someone is racist, they are racist to everybody.

Why it's usually an African American who is the victim?

I don't think it's an external issue, this is an internal issue within the African American community.OMG, let's not blame the victim! And lets NOT blame the entire African American community!

George Floyd was handcuffed and on the ground, there was no need for a cop to crush his neck with his knee for eight minutes straight. That's just monstrous.

I do support the police and believe the overwhelming of officers are good & brave people who risk their lives daily to keep us safe. But in this one case there was one helluva bad cop who caused a needless death. Was the cop racist? I don't know. Just because he's white and the suspect was black doesn't automatically make him a racist, even though the media loves to say that. We need to hold individuals accountable for their actions and stop judging people by their skin color.

[cricket]

I didn't see that much resistance from George Floyd. He was impaired, and officers need to be able to deal with people who are impaired or suffering from mental illness in a better way.

It's true that it happens to blacks more than other minorities. It's not a mystery to me that it's because as a group they commit a lot of crime. I would also guess that they are more hostile towards police because of what society tells them, and also what they have gone through. It's a vicious circle, and that's why I don't like the whole racial injustice thing in specific cases that don't warrant it. I think the only way to effectively combat this problem and defeat it is with true solidarity, meaning take the race out of it. I don't think it helps to cite race in these instances. Even when it's a factor, it's something we have to get past and conquer.

[ahwell]

Here is my issue with this:

How come in all the cases (Such as these), it's always someone "resisting" an officer? If an officer tells me to stop, you better believe I'll stop. Even that young Trayvon Martin guy got in a physical altercation with a security guard (ZImmerman).

Why not just be respectful and walk away?

Why push an officer over the edge? They wake up and deal with horrible situations. That's there lives. Why are you messing with them?

Hasn't anyone heard "Don't start nothing, won't be nothing?".

When you mess with a cop by "resisting", then you asked for it.

Why disrespect someone who's line is literally on the line every single day.

Also, it's never a Chinese person or some Indian immigrant?. If someone is racist, they are racist to everybody.

Why it's usually an African American who is the victim?

I don't think it's an external issue, this is an internal issue within the African American community.

Wow. You must be joking. That’s one of the most insensitive comments I’ve read.

[cricket]

A protest a mile from my house in Brockton just turned ugly and my dogs are going crazy from the booms. Got both cars backed into the garage so if someone comes into my driveway they're getting run over.

[Mesmerized]

I downloaded a police scanner app and was listening to LIVE reports about looting, gunfire, and people being shot. It's getting depressing.

[Captain Steel]

A protest a mile from my house in Brockton just turned ugly and my dogs are going crazy from the booms. Got both cars backed into the garage so if someone comes into my driveway they're getting run over.

You have a two car garage?
Lucky.

:napoleon:

[cricket]

I feel so much better now that they brought in the midget police

65092

[jiraffejustin]

A protest a mile from my house in Brockton just turned ugly and my dogs are going crazy from the booms. Got both cars backed into the garage so if someone comes into my driveway they're getting run over.

Stay safe, buddy.

[Mesmerized]

I feel so much better now that they brought in the midget police

65092

They're called little people. 🙂

[Mesmerized]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RjuADPBo-Q

[Captain Steel]

I feel so much better now that they brought in the midget police

65092

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ADpsIb7vfs

[Mesmerized]

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[Stirchley]

Saks Fifth Avenue all boarded up like in a war zone. Mercenaries & their dogs on guard. That’s Saint Patrick’s Cathedral next door.

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[Mesmerized]

For whatever reason, John McClane is afraid to post here, so he's posting comments to me, instead. I find this inappropriate.

65118

[Yoda]

Sometimes people want to engage in a short private discussion rather than invite public argument. Plenty of legitimate uses for it, at least. Or they want to add a comment but otherwise let the argument die out, which I think is a very constructive way of doing things, rather than escalating. It's nice when people can let things go, and this allows them to do so without just going silent/while still clarifying a point.

I think you might want to talk to them directly before posting private communication, regardless.

[Citizen Rules]

For whatever reason, John McClane is afraid to post here, so he's posting comments to me, instead. I find this inappropriate.

What is inappropriate is you publicly posting a private comment, (unless the person who sent it gave you permission to do so).

If you don't want John McClane sending you comments tell him so, don't try to publicly shame him into stopping.

[TheUsualSuspect]

I need to leave this thread before more white people claim they know how to solve the issue, if this even is race related or praise the horrible acts from corrupt cops even further.

Just step away and shut up.

[Citizen Rules]

I need to leave this thread before more white people claim they know how to solve the issue, if this even is race related or praise the horrible acts from corrupt cops even further.

Just step away and shut up.I think only one person said anything that sounded like praise for the cop involved in the killing. All the rest of the post (that I've read) condemned the cop.

[cricket]

I prefer to discuss these things in thread so others can weigh in, but John McClane and I often talk privately about these types of issues when they pop up. The good thing about that is I think it's easier for us to stay cordial and remain friends even when we have very differing opinions.

[cricket]

I need to leave this thread before more white people claim they know how to solve the issue, if this even is race related or praise the horrible acts from corrupt cops even further.

Just step away and shut up.

See I think this is part of the problem, but of course it's not malicious on your part. White or black it shouldn't matter we are all in it together. I don't know how to solve it but I do know the world will be a better place when we don't hear what the skin color of the people involved is.

[cricket]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883

[TheUsualSuspect]

See I think this is part of the problem, but of course it's not malicious on your part. White or black it shouldn't matter we are all in it together. I don't know how to solve it but I do know the world will be a better place when we don't hear what the skin color of the people involved is.


The desire to be equal is good, but the reality is the total opposite.

[Mesmerized]

I prefer to discuss these things in thread so others can weigh in, but John McClane and I often talk privately about these types of issues when they pop up.

Yeah, it seems like he's got issues of his own.

[cricket]

The desire to be equal is good, but the reality is the total opposite.

Do you think it is now socially acceptable to be racist towards whites?

[John McClane]

Yeah, it seems like he's got issues of his own.As opposed to continually egging someone on to provoke a reaction?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vKC0k-Luzxw

[TheUsualSuspect]

Do you think it is now socially acceptable to be racist towards whites?


Obviously not. But please dont turn this into a whites can be racially discriminated against too arguement.

[cricket]

It seems that many people don't know who Daniel Shaver is. He was a 26yo married father of 2 little girls and a pest control specialist from Texas. He was away for business in Arizona, and for work he used a pellet gun to get birds who would be causing a nuisance high up in the air inside large buildings. At his hotel he met a man and a woman, and they enjoyed a few drinks in his room. One of them asked him what was in the case, a musical instrument? No it's a pellet gun and he showed it to them. A couple in a hot tub down below saw him through the window and called the police reporting a man with a gun.

He walked out of his hotel room and then this happened-

https://youtu.be/VBUUx0jUKxc

The cop did not get convicted, and instead was treated for trauma and received his full pension. If Shaver just happened to be black, there would be screams of racial injustice and rioting and looting. There is no doubt about that. Yet with this, there is no outrage. There's more wrong going on than many people want to admit.

[cricket]

Obviously not. But please dont turn this into a whites can be racially discriminated against too arguement.

The reason you're not seeing it is because it is now very socially acceptable. Just 1 quick example; Antonio Brown was released from the Raiders after a few issues including calling his general manager "a cracker". A couple days later he was signed by the Super Bowl champion New England Patriots. It's as if he was rewarded for his behavior.

[TheUsualSuspect]

It seems that many people don't know who Daniel Shaver is. He was a 26yo married father of 2 little girls and a pest control specialist from Texas. He was away for business in Arizona, and for work he used a pellet gun to get birds who would be causing a nuisance high up in the air inside large buildings. At his hotel he met a man and a woman, and they enjoyed a few drinks in his room. One of them asked him what was in the case, a musical instrument? No it's a pellet gun and he showed it to them. A couple in a hot tub down below saw him through the window and called the police reporting a man with a gun.

He walked out of his hotel room and then this happened-

https://youtu.be/VBUUx0jUKxc

The cop did not get convicted, and instead was treated for trauma and received his full pension. If Shaver just happened to be black, there would be screams of racial injustice and rioting and looting. There is no doubt about that. Yet with this, there is no outrage. There's more wrong going on than many people want to admit.


I've seen that video. It's disgusting.


You cannot say this is the same, you cannot say there would be without a doubt rioting. We dont know. George Floyd died over $20, not reports of a gun.


I want to reiterate, that video is disgusting and that officer should be in prison.

[TheUsualSuspect]

The reason you're not seeing it is because it is now very socially acceptable. Just 1 quick example; Antonio Brown was released from the Raiders after a few issues including calling his general manager "a cracker". A couple days later he was signed by the Super Bowl champion New England Patriots. It's as if he was rewarded for his behavior.


The fact you are equating the two is disgusting. I'm out.

[Mesmerized]

Racism is a real problem in this country. Denying it doesn't make it any less real. Derek Chauvin has had 18 complaints lodged against him in the past for racial injustice before these new charges. He's a racist.

[cricket]

I've seen that video. It's disgusting.


You cannot say this is the same, you cannot say there would be without a doubt rioting. We dont know. George Floyd died over $20, not reports of a gun.

I don't like to compare because we all agree they are both horrible, but two differences are that this guy did not commit a crime and the police officer did not get convicted. I believe when there's no conviction, you can at least understand the outrage a little bit more.

[cricket]

The fact you are equating the two is disgusting. I'm out.

I'm not equating Antonio Brown with anything. I'm trying to tell you that racism against whites is now socially acceptable, and there are countless other examples.

[cricket]

Racism is a real problem in this country. Denying it doesn't make it any less real. Derek Chauvin has had 18 complaints lodged against him in the past for racial injustice before these new charges. He's a racist.

I don't doubt that he might be a racist, but there is no evidence that the George Floyd killing was racially motivated. If you have a link detailing his past racism please post it. I looked before and I couldn't find anything, although I agree with his record he should have been gone long ago.

[John McClane]

I'm not equating Antonio Brown with anything. I'm trying to tell you that racism against whites is now socially acceptable, and there are countless other examples.
I don't like to compare because we all agree they are both horrible, but two differences are that this guy did not commit a crime and the police officer did not get convicted. I believe when there's no conviction, you can at least understand the outrage a little bit more.
If you were truly outraged by the Daniel Shaver case you’d stop dishonoring his name. Like full stop.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/29/heres-why-we-dont-see-protests-when-police-unjustly-kill-white-people/

[cricket]

And also, racism is most certainly a real problem, by all races and against all races. I know this because I know that people are equal regardless of skin color, and because I've seen it.

[ahwell]

See I think this is part of the problem, but of course it's not malicious on your part. White or black it shouldn't matter we are all in it together. I don't know how to solve it but I do know the world will be a better place when we don't hear what the skin color of the people involved is.

We aren't all in this together. Black people have faced so much more discrimination over hundreds of years, and white privilege is very much a thing. Here is a great article that pretty much sums my thoughts up - https://medium.com/@realtalkwocandallies/white-people-stop-asking-us-to-educate-you-about-racism-69273d39d828

I hope everyone here is donating/going to protests (if they can). This is an important issue, and so many white people have sat in silence for too long.

[John McClane]

And also, racism is most certainly a real problem, by all races and against all races. I know this because I know that people are equal regardless of skin color, and because I've seen it.
I’ve been waiting on an example of racism against whites for like years now. You still ain’t gave one.

[cricket]

If you were truly outraged by the Daniel Shaver case you’d stop dishonoring his name. Like full stop.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/29/heres-why-we-dont-see-protests-when-police-unjustly-kill-white-people/

Saying how horrible it was is dishonoring his name?

[John McClane]

Saying how horrible it was is dishonoring his name?No, using his death to advance your agenda that white people can experience racism.

[Yoda]

Per the preemptive warning, the temperature in this thread has to go down a bit if it's going to stay open.

Also, do not reply just to say something is stupid/ridiculous/whatever. If you think it's absurd, say why. If you're so distraught by the wrongness of an idea that you can't bring yourself to say why it's wrong in some substantive way, then don't reply.

[cricket]

I’ve been waiting on an example of racism against whites for like years now. You still ain’t gave one.

I gave one on the last page, and while you're asking, if you don't think the term white privilege is racist, is the term black privilege? Or black "insert anything"?

[cricket]

No, using his death to advance your agenda that white people can experience racism.

Sorry, you either misunderstood or I presented it wrong. I'm saying if he happened to be black, it would be called racial injustice.

[cricket]

We aren't all in this together. Black people have faced so much more discrimination over hundreds of years, and white privilege is very much a thing. Here is a great article that pretty much sums my thoughts up - https://medium.com/@realtalkwocandallies/white-people-stop-asking-us-to-educate-you-about-racism-69273d39d828

I hope everyone here is donating/going to protests (if they can). This is an important issue, and so many white people have sat in silence for too long.

Give me one example of white privilege and I will debunk it.

[cricket]

Per the preemptive warning, the temperature in this thread has to go down a bit if it's going to stay open.

Also, do not reply just to say something is stupid/ridiculous/whatever. If you think it's absurd, say why. If you're so distraught by the wrongness of an idea that you can't bring yourself to say why it's wrong in some substantive way, then don't reply.

I think we're ok here. I believe we're all friends on the same side but with different ideas on how to get there.

[John McClane]

I gave one on the last page, and while you're asking, if you don't think the term white privilege is racist, is the term black privilege? Or black "insert anything"?Well, now you’re just making stuff up, so that’s my cue to leave.

Per the preemptive warning, the temperature in this thread has to go down a bit if it's going to stay open.

Also, do not reply just to say something is stupid/ridiculous/whatever. If you think it's absurd, say why. If you're so distraught by the wrongness of an idea that you can't bring yourself to say why it's wrong in some substantive way, then don't reply.Aye, this is what happens when I break my own promise. 😅

Another cue to bounce.

[cricket]

Well, now you’re just making stuff up, so that’s my cue to leave.

Always a good time to leave when you claim someone is making something up, but you can't say what that something is;)

[TheUsualSuspect]

Give me one example of white privilege and I will debunk it.


For the record, you think white privilege is not a thing?

[TheUsualSuspect]

I'm not equating Antonio Brown with anything. I'm trying to tell you that racism against whites is now socially acceptable, and there are countless other examples.



In your opinion it is and who the f*ck cares? He called someone a cracker...George Floyd was killed. I honestly do not understand why this matters or why you brought it up.


We're talking about a black man who was killed by a white police officer and you're saying....well whites have it tough too it's not fair.

You and me have ZERO idea of what it is like to be a black man in America, so let's stop acting like we do.

[ahwell]

Give me one example of white privilege and I will debunk it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrHIQIO_bdQ

[cricket]

In your opinion it is and who the f*ck cares? He called someone a cracker...George Floyd was killed. I honestly do not understand why this matters or why you brought it up.


We're talking about a black man who was killed by a white police officer and you're saying....well whites have it tough too it's hot fair.

No you're misunderstanding me or I'm not explaining properly. I want to know why it's a racial murder instead of just a murder with the information we have now. And I never said whites have it tough.

[cricket]

For the record, you think white privilege is not a thing?

Convince me and give me an example. I don't feel like watching Ahwell's video, no offense Ahwell.

[TheUsualSuspect]

Convince me and give me an example. I don't feel like watching Ahwell's video, no offense Ahwell.


Open a history book.

[Mesmerized]

I don't doubt that he might be a racist, but there is no evidence that the George Floyd killing was racially motivated. If you have a link detailing his past racism please post it. I looked before and I couldn't find anything, although I agree with his record he should have been gone long ago.

No "might be" anything. He's racist. Ask any protester and they'll tell you that the murder was racially motivated.

[cricket]

No "might be" anything. He's racist. Ask any protester and they'll tell you that the murder was racially motivated.

I repped you because I know you're kidding.

[TheUsualSuspect]

No you're misunderstanding me or I'm not explaining properly. I want to know why it's a racial murder instead of just a murder with the information we have now. And I never said whites have it tough.


I'm not saying it is a racial murder or not. I am saying he murdered him. All the racial undertones coming up from this is important regardless.


Do I think he killed him because he was black? No. I think he was treated the way he was because he was black. Which just so happened to result in his death.

[cricket]

Open a history book.

And still, nobody can give me an example. It's not just you, it's a pattern.

[cricket]

I'm not saying it is a racial murder or not. I am saying he murdered him. All the racial undertones coming up from this is important regardless.


Do I think he killed him because he was black? No. I think he was treated the way he was because he was black. Which just so happened to result in his death.

There's a lot of things we agree on. There's nothing wrong for you to think he was treated that way because he was black, and I would not dismiss the idea at all. What is wrong is for the media to label it a racial murder. We need to know things to improve things, not guess. That's what I believe.

[John McClane]

Convince me and give me an example. I don't feel like watching Ahwell's video, no offense Ahwell.You do not feel the need to learn about the history of suffering experienced by other races at the hand of the white man? Or acknowledge that there is a history of systematic oppression that has influenced current day power dynamics?

That, in and of itself, is white privilege.

[cricket]

You do not feel the need to learn about the history of suffering experienced by other races at the hand of the white man? Or acknowledge that there is a history of systematic oppression that has influenced current day power dynamics?

That, in and of itself, is white privilege.

Repped you by accident LOL No that's not what I'm saying, but it is a trend for people to put words in my mouth. I'm asking someone to give me an example of white privilege.

[cricket]

OK so since nobody can give me an example, I'll give my own example coming from this former presidential candidate –

https://youtu.be/QN3ZkDCzxUI

Anybody agree with her?


Wonder why she didn't last long.

[John McClane]

Repped you by accident LOL No that's not what I'm saying, but it is a trend for people to put words in my mouth. I'm asking someone to give me an example of white privilege.
I just did. Your reluctance to acknowledge that history has an effect on current day events is white privilege.

[Captain Spaulding]

In an effort to show solidarity with the protesters, I just looted cricket's underwear drawer. This is what I found:

https://i.imgur.com/5N4ZYrQ.jpg

I'd try them on but there's stains in the back. :sick:

[cricket]

I just did. Your reluctance to acknowledge that history has an effect on current day events is white privilege.

I never said it didn't. Black people have had horrible times. I'm trying to skip your point here because it's a waste of time. Just give me an example.

[cricket]

And this time make sure your example is something that provides a benefit to me.

[Citizen Rules]

I never held with the idea of 'sins of the father'. That type of thinking negates individual responsibility. Nor do I believe in collective guilt of a race, people or country. There's only individuals who can decide to do right or decide to do wrong.

[John McClane]

I never said it didn't. Black people have had horrible times. I'm trying to skip your point here because it's a waste of time. Just give me an example.You skipping the point because you think it is a waste of time is white privilege.

Either history has no effect on current day and race doesn’t play a factor in day to day life, or history does effect the current day and current race relations have been shaped by that history.

[Swan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrHIQIO_bdQ

Thanks for the video. I've been trying to learn about systemic racism but couldn't find a good jumping off point to put things into perspective. This helped a lot.

[John McClane]

I never held with the idea of 'sins of the father'. That type of thinking negates individual responsibility. Nor do I believe in collective guilt of a race, people or country. There's only individuals who can decide to do right or decide to do wrong.It does not negate individual responsibility. It necessitates action to unlearn the good/bad dichotomies about race, and it compels action to correct the systems of power that teach those dichotomies.

We are products of the stories taught to us, and this is effectively saying that isn’t the case.

[cricket]

You skipping the point because you think it is a waste of time is white privilege.

Either history has no effect on current day and race doesn’t play a factor in day to day life, or history does effect the current day and current race relations have been shaped by that history.

OK you're not going to give me an example of white privilege. I didn't think so. Maybe next year.

[TheUsualSuspect]

And still, nobody can give me an example. It's not just you, it's a pattern.


I'll give you an example of an experiment I was a part of in high school.


The class was history and the topic was racism in modern times. My partner and I decided to do an experiment at a blockbuster.


We wore similar clothing, loose jeans and a hoodie with a backpack. I would walk in, look around for ten minutes and leave, he would do the same.


I walked in, looked around for ten minutes and left. I was never talked to once (poor customer service) never followed and never asked to leave my backpack at the door.


Staff of two people.


My friend, whom is black walks in. He's asked to leave bag at door and one of the employees followed him throughout the store. 5 minutes in he was asked to leave.


I had the privilege of not being harassed. That's just my own personal experience, my first real experience on how black people live in the world.

[cricket]

I never held with the idea of 'sins of the father'. That type of thinking negates individual responsibility. Nor do I believe in collective guilt of a race, people or country. There's only individuals who can decide to do right or decide to do wrong.

It's so true, living in the past does not help you in the future. Identity politics is a bitch. I don't even like talking black people or white people. That's what I want to get rid of and for some reason nobody seems to agree.

[Yoda]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrHIQIO_bdQ
The resume thing has been mostly debunked, FWIW. It didn't control very well for economic factors. Another study was conducted where they chose "high-class" and "low-class" sounding names within each racial group and found a correlation there, instead. Same kind of response with perceived "low-class" white names.

It's pretty striking how often examples of racism turn out to be explained by economic factors. Of course, that can be influenced by race, but that's a distinction most people don't seem to make, if they're even really aware of it. And just to confound things a bit more, that generational wealth gap should logically persist even if you thought current policies were perfectly equitable. Naturally, if nobody points any of this out, most of these discussions are just people talking past each other.

[cricket]

I'll give you an example of an experiment I was a part of in high school.


The class was history and the topic was racism in modern times. My partner and I decided to do an experiment at a blockbuster.


We wore similar clothing, loose jeans and a hoodie with a backpack. I would walk in, look around for ten minutes and leave, he would do the same.


I walked in, looked around for ten minutes and left. I was never talked to once (poor customer service) never followed and never asked to leave my backpack at the door.


Staff of two people.


My friend, whom is black walks in. He's asked to leave bag at door and one of the employees followed him throughout the store. 5 minutes in he was asked to leave.


I had the privilege of not being harassed. That's just my own personal experience, my first real experience on how black people live in the world.

It's a great experiment and it was unfair to your friend. The problem with this specific example, is that not being harassed is not a privilege. You shouldn't be harassed. It can't be a privilege if it's the way it's supposed to be. If you want to make the argument that your friend was underprivileged or something like that, I can go for that.

[cricket]

The resume thing has been mostly debunked, FWIW. It didn't control very well for economic factors. Another study was conducted where they chose "high-class" and "low-class" sounding names within each racial group and found a correlation there, instead. Same kind of response with perceived "low-class" white names.

It's pretty striking how often examples of racism turn out to be explained by economic factors. Of course, that can be influenced by race, but that's a distinction most people don't seem to make, if they're even really aware of it. And just to confound things a bit more, that generational wealth gap should logically persist even if you thought current policies were perfectly equitable. Naturally, if nobody points any of this out, most of these discussions are just people talking past each other.

This is spot on. I believe the bigger problem is economic inequity, which does have to do with racial sins of the past. However, white people only cannot fix it. The African-American community has to improve in some areas. That's why I keep saying it takes all of us. Let's identify the problems and solve them all together. I can't fathom why this enrages people.

[John McClane]

The resume thing has been mostly debunked, FWIW. It didn't control very well for economic factors. Another study was conducted where they chose "high-class" and "low-class" sounding names within each racial group and found a correlation there, instead. Same kind of response with perceived "low-class" white names.

It's pretty striking how often examples of racism turn out to be explained by economic factors. Of course, that can be influenced by race, but that's a distinction most people don't seem to make, if they're even really aware of it. And just to confound things a bit more, that generational wealth gap should logically persist even if you thought current policies were perfectly equitable. Naturally, if nobody points any of this out, most of these discussions are just people talking past each other.Indeed, but the telling thing is that the theft of generational wealth has occurred repeatedly. The most recent of which was the urbanization renewals that took place in the late 60s and 70s. In that particular instance, property owned by minorities was stolen at a fraction of its cost in order to increase the tax revenue of cities. This was effectively a double dip situation as the property was acquired through condemnation for cents on the dollar or at no cost at all, and then the newly acquired tax revenue was used to improve white neighborhoods whilst the population that was displaced has been left to languish in dilapidated communities. And this happened ALL over America.

But, ya know, no one seems to want to admit that history has an effect on these kinda things.

[TheUsualSuspect]

It's a great experiment and it was unfair to your friend. The problem with this specific example, is that not being harassed is not a privilege. You shouldn't be harassed. It can't be a privilege if it's the way it's supposed to be. If you want to make the argument that your friend was underprivileged or something like that, I can go for that.


A lot of things are supposed to be certain ways and they are not.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/theundefeated.com/features/why-do-so-many-white-people-deny-the-existence-of-white-privilege/amp/




I'm just gonna stop though because I dont want to turn the death of an unarmed black man into a debate about white privilege. I dont even know what people are arguing about anymore. A person is dead, things need to change.

[cricket]

Nobody has said anything about history not being a factor. Now to the important stuff, what is the solution? I don't think labeling things as racial incidents with no evidence to support it is part of it.

[TheUsualSuspect]

Nobody has said anything about history not being a factor. Now to the important stuff, what is the solution? I don't think labeling things as racial incidents with no evidence to support it is part of it.


I don't think there will ever be a solution.


Unfortunately.

At least not in our lifetime.

[cricket]

A lot of things are supposed to be certain ways and they are not.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/theundefeated.com/features/why-do-so-many-white-people-deny-the-existence-of-white-privilege/amp/




I'm just gonna stop though because I dont want to turn the death of an unarmed black man into a debate about white privilege. I dont even know what people are arguing about anymore. A person is dead, things need to change.

I don't see an example of white privilege there but it is a black man talking about the concept of white privilege. Is that black privilege? Just wondering since if a white person talked about black "anything", they'd be labeled a racist.

Again, we all agree on the George Floyd murder, it was awful

[cricket]

I don't think there will ever be a solution.


Unfortunately.

At least not in our lifetime.

Yeah I don't think in our lifetime unfortunately either. I do think it can happen but there's too much that has to be done.

[TheUsualSuspect]

Just wondering since if a white person talked about black "anything", they'd be labeled a racist.


Seriously? Give me a break man, come on.

[John McClane]

Nobody has said anything about history not being a factor. Now to the important stuff, what is the solution? I don't think labeling things as racial incidents with no evidence to support it is part of it.The evidence is history, so the case is shut and close.

And what about spending tax revenues to improve neighborhoods that have been largely ignored in favor of white/rich/already pretty good looking communities?

My own city is dealing with it right now. We stole generational wealth located at the heart of our city to build some of the ugliest **** ever. We destroyed our city’s history and its beauty so as to push minorities across the railroad tracks, out of the city, and leave them to languish for the last 60 years. Now that we are working to improve those areas we are having to heal the pain of that history, and that’s precisely what is needed to start fixing the issue. We have to confront the actions that have lead us to where we are and effectively condemn them. Not act like they have no bearing on current day and belittling the pain of an entire community.

[cricket]

Seriously? Give me a break man, come on.

But really, there's a lot of people who find that term offensive. And I think it's wrong to label a whole group of people by their skin color. Take black, Indian, Asian, eskimo, anything you want, I don't think it's right.


And just to be clear with my basic beef. A lot of people have suffered because of the rioting and some have lost their lives. If this wasn't looked at as a racial incident, it may not have happened. With no evidence of it being racial, labeling it as such is irresponsible and dangerous. I blame the media mostly, but nobody should be so careless.

[cricket]

The evidence is history, so the case is shut and close.

And what about spending tax revenues to improve neighborhoods that have been largely ignored in favor of white/rich/already pretty good looking communities?

My own city is dealing with it right now. We stole generational wealth located at the heart of our city to build some of the ugliest **** ever. We pushed minorities across the railroad tracks, out of the city, and left them to languish for the last 60 years. Now that we are working to improve those areas we are having to heal the pain of that history, and that’s precisely what is needed to start fixing the issue. We have to confront the actions that have lead us to where we are and effectively condemn them. Not act like they have no bearing on current day and belittling the pain of an entire community.

History is evidence that a future incident is race related? Credibility gone.

[TheUsualSuspect]

The rioting are people taking advantage of a sh*tty situation.


The cops are out of line, above and beyond with how they are handling the protesters.

[cricket]

The rioting are people taking advantage of a sh*tty situation.


The cops are out of line, above and beyond with how they are handling the protesters.

100%, just wondering if it'd still be happening if not pushed so hard by the media as a racial injustice. Maybe, but why force it down people's throats with no evidence.

[John McClane]

History is evidence that a future incident is race related? Credibility gone.
I’m just glad I held onto my credibility longer than you did. ;)

Yoda: I think it’s safe to say this has devolved into “I’m rubber and you’re glue anything you say bounces off me and sticks to you“. 😅

I formal request you shut us all up.

[cricket]

I’m just glad I held onto my credibility longer than you did. ;)

Yoda: I think it’s safe to say this has devolved into “ I’m rubber and you’re glue anything you say bounces off me and sticks to you“. 😅

I formal request you shut us all up.

Oh please speak for yourself even if it hasn't worked out for you yet:)

[John McClane]

Oh please speak for yourself even if it hasn't worked out for you yet:)You’re just sore I need two hands to count all that white privilege you got. :D

[Citizen Rules]

In Seattle it looked like the majority of rioters were white. Stats on that from actual footage would be interesting. I guess they didn't get their allotment of white privilege that particular day;)

BTW I find the term white privilege to be f'ning ugly. I came from a poor white family, I didn't get to go to college like a lot of you, we didn't live in a big house or get to have a bunch of stuff. So stop telling me I have white privilege.

We have a large homeless problem here around Seattle and outlaying areas. I have yet to see a black or minority homeless person. And I've seen a lot of them, on the streets and on the news. Every one I've seen so far has been white. I guess they didn't get their white privilege either.

I'll tell ya what white privilege is, it's a way that rich white college kids who grew up in a nice home with new cars can alleviate their guilt over having so much while the rest of us have so little...Yoda nailed it, it's about economic privilege. Rich people have rich affluent kids, who get lots of chances due to their money. Poor people have poor kids who have it much tougher and usually end up poor. It's all about economic privilege.

[cricket]

There was flooding when I lived in an apartment on the water before I met my wife. We used to live on the first floor, which got flooded, so then we moved to the second floor. We got another flood, no water damage this time but a loss of power for a few days. I was always out so I stayed while my parents went to a hotel. Went out with my friends and they dropped me off down the street in the middle of the night. They couldn't get down the street because of the water. I had brought a garbage back with me so I stepped into it to walk home. The National Guard ran up and stopped me because I matched the description of a looter. I was drunk but told them that I just got dropped off and pointed to where I lived. They asked for id, and I totally forgot it was my old address. Luckily I had my key and they just followed me to my door. Even more luckily I tried getting into the right apartment which was sometimes a problem. I thought it was funny at the time.

[cricket]

In Seattle it looked like the majority of rioters were white. Stats on that from actual footage would be interesting. I guess they didn't get their allotment of white privilege that particular day;)

BTW I find the term white privilege to be f'ning ugly. I came from a poor white family, I didn't get to go to college like a lot of you, we didn't live in a big house or get to have a bunch of stuff. So stop telling me I have white privilege.

We have a large homeless problem here around Seattle and outlaying areas. I have yet to see a black or minority homeless person. And I've seen a lot of them, on the streets and on the news. Every one I've seen so far has been white. I guess they didn't get their white privilege either.

I'll tell ya what white privilege is, it's a way that rich white college kids who grew up in a nice home with new cars can alleviate their guilt over having so much while the rest of us have so little...Yoda nailed it, it's about economic privilege. Rich people have rich affluent kids, who get lots of chances due to their money. Poor people have poor kids who have it much tougher and usually end up poor. It's all about economic privilege.

That's what I'm seeing, mostly whites causing the trouble.

I was homeless when we moved from Chicago to Boston. While staying at the Salvation Army I graduated 8th grade at a school with one other white person. Everyone there had more then I did. Never felt privileged either.

[TheUsualSuspect]

In Seattle it looked like the majority of rioters were white. Stats on that from actual footage would be interesting. I guess they didn't get their allotment of white privilege that particular day;)

BTW I find the term white privilege to be f'ning ugly. I came from a poor white family, I didn't get to go to college like a lot of you, we didn't live in a big house or get to have a bunch of stuff. So stop telling me I have white privilege.

We have a large homeless problem here around Seattle and outlaying areas. I have yet to see a black or minority homeless person. And I've seen a lot of them, on the streets and on the news. Every one I've seen so far has been white. I guess they didn't get their white privilege either.

I'll tell ya what white privilege is, it's a way that rich white college kids who grew up in a nice home with new cars can alleviate their guilt over having so much while the rest of us have so little...Yoda nailed it, it's about economic privilege. Rich people have rich affluent kids, who get lots of chances due to their money. Poor people have poor kids who have it much tougher and usually end up poor. It's all about economic privilege.

White Privilege doesn't automatically mean if you are white you live a better life, it's not a FACT that blankets over every single white person in the world. It is more in line with people in the same social, economic and political circles It's not a term that means white people have never struggled, just like it doesn't mean accomplishments by white people are unearned.

[cricket]

White Privilege doesn't automatically mean if you are white you live a better life, it's not a FACT that blankets over every single white person in the world. It is more in line with people in the same social, economic and political circles It's not a term that means white people have never struggled, just like it doesn't mean accomplishments by white people are unearned.

That's part of the reason it shouldn't be used imo.

[Mesmerized]

65127

[Citizen Rules]

White Privilege doesn't automatically mean if you are white you live a better life, it's not a FACT that blankets over every single white person in the world. It is more in line with people in the same social, economic and political circles It's not a term that means white people have never struggled, just like it doesn't mean accomplishments by white people are unearned.If white privilege isn't a fact...and doesn't apply to all white people...AND is more in line with people in the same social, economic and political circles...then it's not white privilege at all, it's economic privilege.

See what I think you're doing is: seeing the world from your own viewpoint: your white and not poor...so then you view most all white people as living like you do in relative comfort and then label that white privilege. But that's a fallacy as millions of white people are dirt poor and millions of blacks and minorities are middle or upper economic class.

[ahwell]

If white privilege isn't a fact...and doesn't apply to all white people...AND is more in line with people in the same social, economic and political circles...then it's not white privilege at all, it's economic privilege.

See what I think you're doing is: seeing the world from your own viewpoint: your white and not poor...so then you view most all white people as living like you do in relative comfort and then label that white privilege. But that's a fallacy as millions of white people are dirt poor and millions of blacks and minorities are middle or upper economic class.

Perhaps, however white privilege extends to how blacks are TREATED in the US, not just how “economically well off” they are.

[cricket]

And another thing is that I thought we were supposed to be getting away from generalizing people by skin color or any other group that they belong to. I just think it's wrong to do, and the weird thing is that it's the social justice types who use it. It's just so hypocritical, but again, they think they are doing the right thing when in fact they are pissing people off and alienating them. I hear these things and I can't help but think it's people being brainwashed in college.

[Citizen Rules]

Perhaps, however white privilege extends to how blacks are TREATED in the US, not just how “economically well off” they are.If we could say that all the white cops involved in black dead suspect cases were caused by racism, then I say yes to that part of it. But of the handful of cases, many of them have been shown not to be racist and to be justified in using force. This recent case IMO was NOT justified and I believe cop should've been charged with 2nd degree murder not 3rd.

I think bad cops get away with this stuff because of the 'thin blue line'... they look at other cops as their own and they take care of their own. It sucks anytime one of these events happen, one life wrongly lost is one too many.

[Citizen Rules]

Gosh I can't spell. Fixed some typos up there.

[cricket]

Perhaps, however white privilege extends to how blacks are TREATED in the US, not just how “economically well off” they are.

Ahhhh, everyone always leaves out those poor Asians. But screw them, if the black community is struggling, let's see if we can knock the whites down a peg.

[cricket]

RIP David Dorn, a 77yo retired police officer killed by looters.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcToAxM3DsBPxeaDYrIFK2OLD4LRyFt5jaqKnaq7ljSJcRk8DdWo&usqp=CAU

Are my eyes deceiving me because he looks black, but none of the stories mention it. Maybe it only matters sometimes.

[TheUsualSuspect]

If white privilege isn't a fact...and doesn't apply to all white people...AND is more in line with people in the same social, economic and political circles...then it's not white privilege at all, it's economic privilege.

See what I think you're doing is: seeing the world from your own viewpoint: your white and not poor...so then you view most all white people as living like you do in relative comfort and then label that white privilege. But that's a fallacy as millions of white people are dirt poor and millions of blacks and minorities are middle or upper economic class.


I do not view all people as having the same social class as me, give me a break. Millions of black people are poor and millions of white people are middle to upper class. There, I just switched it and the fact still remains the same.


You get upset at the notion of white privilege. Those are your own issues to deal with.

[cricket]

I do not view all people as having the same social class as me, give me a break. Millions of black people are poor and millions of white people are middle to upper class. There, I just switched it and the fact still remains the same.


You get upset at the notion of white privilege. Those are your own issues to deal with.

Do you really think it's right to generalize people based on skin color? I though that's what racism was. Not calling you racist btw.

[John McClane]

Yoda

Please shut this down. For real. This is doing no one any good.

[cricket]

Doctored!

No, what can I say, your searching skills are better than mine:p

[TheUsualSuspect]

Do you really think it's right to generalize people based on skin color? I though that's what racism was. Not calling you racist btw.


I just find it funny people get butt hurt over a term like that and think its comparable.

[Citizen Rules]

I do not view all people as having the same social class as me, give me a break. Millions of black people are poor and millions of white people are middle to upper class. There, I just switched it and the fact still remains the same.

You get upset at the notion of white privilege. Those are your own issues to deal with.You misunderstood my post (or maybe I wrote it poorly). What I was trying to say is, if you believe there's white privilege it's because of your own life's viewpoint. If you and the majority of white people you know have it good, it's easy to hold that up as an example of how most white people live...ergo white people live in privilege. If you were a poor white person your viewpoint would be very different.

If you meant something else by white privelge please explain. It sounded like you were saying economic privilege is white privilege.

[cricket]

Yoda

Please shut this down. For real. This is doing no one any good.

Quit posting, don't shut it down for everyone else who wants to chat. But then, who cares about fair?

[cricket]

I just find it funny people get butt hurt over a term like that and think its comparable.

But it is generalizing people by skin color. How is that not wrong?

[John McClane]

If white privilege isn't a fact...and doesn't apply to all white people...AND is more in line with people in the same social, economic and political circles...then it's not white privilege at all, it's economic privilege.

See what I think you're doing is: seeing the world from your own viewpoint: your white and not poor...so then you view most all white people as living like you do in relative comfort and then label that white privilege. But that's a fallacy as millions of white people are dirt poor and millions of blacks and minorities are middle or upper economic class.Even tho you’re poor have you ever went into a high end shop and looked around and maybe asked a question about something? If you didn’t get a “oh, you can’t afford that” or “you wouldn’t understand what that is” that would be white privilege.

[John McClane]

Quit posting, don't shut it down for everyone else who wants to chat. But then, who cares about fair?you have made it abundantly clear life ain’t fair for white people

[cricket]

You misunderstood my post (or maybe I wrote it poorly). What I was trying to say is, if you believe there's white privilege it's because of your own life's viewpoint. If you and the majority of white people you know have it good, it's easy to hold that up as an example of how most white people live...ergo white people live in privilege. If you were a poor white person your viewpoint would be very different.

If you meant something else by white privelge please explain. It sounded like you were saying economic privilege is white privilege.

You saw the example he gave me, something that can't even be considered a privilege. In my experience, people either use something like that or something that is actually majority privilege.

[pahaK]

As a Finn, I find this whole white privilege and collective guilt annoying. We (using a similar historical generalization as black) have had our independence for a bit over a century. Before that, we were governed by either Sweden or Russia, and our folks were sent to fight their wars. Finns were also raided and sold to slavery to the east (Russia, Crimea, and even further) in large quantities. We were actually in high demand because we were considered both exotic and capable slaves. We've never had any colonies, either. Where's our historical privilege? What should we apologize to Africans?

I don't take a stance on this latest police brutality case (I haven't bothered to look for a full video, but the coronary report seemed to say that the cause of death wasn't asphyxiation). As a whole, statistics don't support massive, murderous racist tendencies in the US police force (as far as I know white criminals get killed more often per X cases). Statistics do support considerably higher crime rates for black though, which can (and to some degree, should) cause some bias in assessing certain situations.

But then again, I'm the biggest pos on these forums (at least I think that's what Camo once said) :D

[Yoda]

Removed some posts. Will close the thread if need be.

Do not reply to this topic if you do not want to discuss it. And repeating things counts as not wanting to discuss it.

[Mesmerized]

I hope we all can agree that George Floyd was murdered by Derek Chauvin. Either Chauvin intended to murder him, or he had a serious problem in his failure to comprehend three simple words, I can't breathe.

[TheUsualSuspect]

As a Finn, I find this whole white privilege and collective guilt annoying. We (using a similar historical generalization as black) have had our independence for a bit over a century. Before that, we were governed by either Sweden or Russia, and our folks were sent to fight their wars. Finns were also raided and sold to slavery to the east (Russia, Crimea, and even further) in large quantities. We were actually in high demand because we were considered both exotic and capable slaves. We've never had any colonies, either. Where's our historical privilege? What should we apologize to Africans?

I don't take a stance on this latest police brutality case (I haven't bothered to look for a full video, but the coronary report seemed to say that the cause of death wasn't asphyxiation). As a whole, statistics don't support massive, murderous racist tendencies in the US police force (as far as I know white criminals get killed more often per X cases). Statistics do support considerably higher crime rates for black though, which can (and to some degree, should) cause some bias in assessing certain situations.

But then again, I'm the biggest pos on these forums (at least I think that's what Camo once said) :D


Independent coroner stated he did die from asphyxiation.

[TheUsualSuspect]

I hope we all can agree that George Floyd was murdered by Derek Chauvin. Either Chauvin intended to murder him, or he had a serious problem in his failure to comprehend three simple words, I can't breathe.


I think everyone agrees on that.

[pahaK]

Independent coroner stated he did die from asphyxiation.

Did he actually examine the body and since when is someone hired by the victim's family independent? Regardless of that and the fact that you only chose to reply to that small part of my post, I do repeat that I don't have a solid stance on this particular event because I feel I don't have enough information. The main points of my post were the absurdity of white privilege and white guilt from my (Finnish) historical point of view, and the lack of statistical evidence that supports US police rampantly killing black people.

[cricket]

Yea I would say that there's no such thing as independent when the person is hired, but that goes for the other autopsy that was performed as well.

[cricket]

George Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe while he was still standing up, and when people are getting arrested they will say a lot of things. That doesn't matter to me because he didn't need that kind of restraint, he died, and the officer let it happen and/or contributed to it. Morally I think it's just as bad regardless of what the legal defense may be.

[John McClane]

If you disagree about the culpability of history in current day society you are a racist.

If you qualify the death of George Floyd in any manner other than complete condemnation you are a racist.

If you claim that white privilege doesn’t exist or can’t exist you are a racist.

If you believe socio-economics are the deciding factor of your treatment in America you are a racist.

If you don’t believe we have a responsibility as society to answer to history you are a racist.

You have always been a racist if these statements apply to you but, if you believe them now, you are actively choosing racism. And I don’t **** with racists clowns. 🤡

Get the wax out of your ears, learn to listen, learn to read, learn to think, learn to have compassion for the shared history of a community and answer for the shared blame. Don’t be a racist clown. 🤡

Apparently, we are more interested in protecting fragile mindsets than fixing things.

If you disagree with this post then I’m pretty sure you missed the day when God was handing out souls.

This place has become a save haven for racists, and I don’t even know why I bother with it anymore. It’s evident that I have to take responsibility for my part in continuing to support such a community, and in light of this weakness I will be largely absent for the coming weeks.

To everyone else in here who has effectively condemned racism: You are the proud owner of a brain and you have a beautiful soul, and I hope you consider your own culpability in continuing to mingle with racists.

https://www.businessinsider.com/white-supremacist-telegram-channel-encourages-violence-george-floyd-protests-2020-6

https://www.lawfareblog.com/riots-white-supremacy-and-accelerationism

[cricket]

If you disagree about the culpability of history in current day society you are a racist.

If you qualify the death of George Floyd in any manner other than complete condemnation you are a racist.

If you claim that white privilege doesn’t exist or can’t exist you are a racist.

If you believe socio-economics are the deciding factor of your treatment in America you are a racist.

If you don’t believe we have a responsibility as society to answer to history you are a racist.

You have always been a racist if these statements apply to you but, if you believe them now, you are actively choosing racism. And I don’t **** with racists clowns. 🤡

Get the wax out of your ears, learn to listen, learn to read, learn to think, learn to have compassion for the shared history of a community and answer for the shared blame. Don’t be a racist clown. 🤡

Apparently, we are more interested in protecting fragile mindsets than fixing things.

If you disagree with this post then I’m pretty sure you missed the day when God was handing out souls.

This place has become a save haven for racists, and I don’t even know why I bother with it anymore. It’s evident that I have to take responsibility for my part in continuing to support such a community, and in light of this weakness I will be largely absent for the coming weeks.

To everyone else in here who has effectively condemned racism: You are the proud owner of a brain and you have a beautiful soul, and I hope you consider your own culpability in continuing to mingle with racists.

https://www.businessinsider.com/white-supremacist-telegram-channel-encourages-violence-george-floyd-protests-2020-6

https://www.lawfareblog.com/riots-white-supremacy-and-accelerationism

I've always condemned racism and spoke of not wanting to judge anybody by skin color. If you want me to be honest, I see a lot of what you say as racist.

[Yoda]

The intersection of economics and race is complicated, at minimum. If somebody feels that isn't true, then there's not much to talk about, because they think the world is a lot simpler than I do and any explanations I give them will be unacceptably nuanced.

Anyway, with something like race I look for signs that tell me whether someone is arguing in good faith or not. For example, whether they seem to genuinely want to explain things (though people need to be careful about coming into a heated discussion with the idea that they're just going to instruct others), or whether they seem to be actively looking for a reason to use the "R" word in order to not have those discussions.

Either way, the basic edict of "don't reply if you don't want to discuss this" still applies. I have no patience for clapback theory. I think it's juvenile and tricks people's brains into releasing endorphins for winning arguments they're actively avoiding.

[TheUsualSuspect]

Did he actually examine the body and since when is someone hired by the victim's family independent? Regardless of that and the fact that you only chose to reply to that small part of my post, I do repeat that I don't have a solid stance on this particular event because I feel I don't have enough information. The main points of my post were the absurdity of white privilege and white guilt from my (Finnish) historical point of view, and the lack of statistical evidence that supports US police rampantly killing black people.


Did he actually examine the body? Did the first examiner examine the body? Is he hiding information to protect his co-workers?


Maybe more examiners should be hired for a general consensus.


From your point of view and many other white people, white privilege does not exist. I think it does. I've never been pulled over because of the colour of my skin, had people follow me in stores, hold onto their purse tighter, etc. This is the world we live in, Cricket would say that's not privilege its black under privilege. To me that's him agreeing with my statements but not wanting to admit it and finding different phrases.


I obviously can't change your mind or open your eyes. You cant change mine or pull the wool over them. I've stated that I'm leaving this thread multiple times but just keep coming back. Nothing is advancing with these discussions, we are going in circles. So when I dont reply to whoever posts a reply; dont take that as an I dont have anything to say, or I'm insulting you. I'm just tired of going in circles.


Like I've said and Cricket, Citizen Rules, John McClane among others...the man was killed, the cops should be found guilty, the riots are wrong, the police are out of line with protestors. We are in agreement with that and I'll take my leave.

[pahaK]

Did he actually examine the body? Did the first examiner examine the body? Is he hiding information to protect his co-workers?

That was an honest question. I don't how such legalities work in the US (can anyone bring their own doctors to examine the body?). And I was considering mentioning that isn't the "hiding information" angle a pure conspiracy theory (or is it not, as the cause is just)? I, personally, have more faith to the county coroner.

From your point of view and many other white people, white privilege does not exist. I think it does. I've never been pulled over because of the colour of my skin, had people follow me in stores, hold onto their purse tighter, etc.

For me, the big question is where is the line between causality (all of your examples are things that seem to happen to ethnic groups that have considerably higher crime rates than, for example, whites - in Finland Roma are in a very similar situation) and racism (which in my opinion would be purely based on the color of skin and generally just being different). Prejudices are built on information and past experiences, they're rarely born out of nothing.

[matt72582]

I've avoided this, for many reasons, and instead of quoting 50 posts, I'll just say a few things. Socio-economics DOES play a part. I think its a combination of many things, and in a span of a few minutes, the brain working like a computer sometimes act on instinct (which doesn't mean it's accurate and/or fair). Obviously skin color is a huge determining factor, because its something you can't hide and I think most people would rather be racist "inside" than take a chance. To me, there's nothing more annoying than "black lives matter" vs. "all lives matter". I don't like agendas. I support any group protesting, even if I don't agree with them. The more I disagree with something, the more I want to know why.


What I would like is for more to be inclusive about the whole thing. I think its wise if someone on TV says "Black, brown, and poor people are not treated fairly" because then it includes more people, and some who might feel left out would join the cause or at least be conscious of what's going on and investigate more. Or simply using poverty would kill two birds with one stone, but the main thing is, it wouldn't leave out a small percentage of people who won't get noticed, instead of an all-exclusive group, which leads to some people who don't fit a certain group category to feel, "Hey, I've been screwed by the police, but they don't care about me" which I think leads to a backlash, and resentment between mostly poor people, instead of the system itself. I browse on Twitter, and saw a conversation where one said, "Asians don't need affirmative action because they're doing fine". All of them? Isn't that a stereotype? I like to include all people, to emulate a fist, rather than dividing us (making us easier to control and divide) into little fingers. People should also know that most will only see highlights - anything that makes news for the respective news stations (and their target audience). I also think there are agent provocateurs, infiltration, and a distortion of what's happening. If I was against the protestors, I'd spray-paint things like "White Lives Don't Matter" to stir things up, so millions could say "See? See??". I was watching graffiti in NYC which seemed to be by one or two guys by looking at the color and handwriting. The US doesn't seem to have a "let's have a conversation" mindset. People always say "Never discuss politics and religion", until things get out of hand, and then it's all out chaos. I was listening to my neighbors talk while I was on my porch, and when a few criticize our governor (Whitmer), I'm going to assume they might just defend Trump no matter what, even though I don't like either one of them (nor Biden), and when another neighbor told me "I don't know your politics, but Trump isn't setting a good example", then I might not hesitate to criticize him. She really liked when I corrected her phrase of "the lesser of two evils" to "the evil of two lessers". I'm a very political person, and it's exhausting, so I try to avoid it, and have, but I think if everyone spoke what was in their hearts and minds, we might get more ideas, instead of binary thinking without nuance. I bring up my neighbors because I think a lot of people will remain silent unless they speak to their bubble, whether it's people they work with, friends, family, or in the case I mentioned, where I live, because I've lived here for 5 years and have enough chaos in my life and around this area, so I use the internet anonymously sometimes to experiment. I noticed something simple as an avatar can prejudice and manipulate. If for example I say the same thing on a platform, but once doing it with a white beautiful blonde woman and pasting the same exact comment with a man, or an empty avatar. Be interested in accuracy instead of validating things you've thought for years. There's nothing wrong with saying, "I was wrong". People shouldn't be quick to jump at people for feeling a certain way. We can't know everyone's life with a few posts.

[cricket]

I've avoided this, for many reasons, and instead of quoting 50 posts, I'll just say a few things. Socio-economics DOES play a part. I think its a combination of many things, and in a span of a few minutes, the brain working like a computer sometimes act on instinct (which doesn't mean it's accurate and/or fair). Obviously skin color is a huge determining factor, because its something you can't hide and I think most people would rather be racist "inside" than take a chance. To me, there's nothing more annoying than "black lives matter" vs. "all lives matter". I don't like agendas. I support any group protesting, even if I don't agree with them. The more I disagree with something, the more I want to know why.


What I would like is for more to be inclusive about the whole thing. I think its wise if someone on TV says "Black, brown, and poor people are not treated fairly" because then it includes more people, and some who might feel left out would join the cause or at least be conscious of what's going on and investigate more. Or simply using poverty would kill two birds with one stone, but the main thing is, it wouldn't leave out a small percentage of people who won't get noticed, instead of an all-exclusive group, which leads to some people who don't fit a certain group category to feel, "Hey, I've been screwed by the police, but they don't care about me" which I think leads to a backlash, and resentment between mostly poor people, instead of the system itself. I browse on Twitter, and saw a conversation where one said, "Asians don't need affirmative action because they're doing fine". All of them? Isn't that a stereotype? I like to include all people, to emulate a fist, rather than dividing us (making us easier to control and divide) into little fingers. People should also know that most will only see highlights - anything that makes news for the respective news stations (and their target audience). I also think there are agent provocateurs, infiltration, and a distortion of what's happening. If I was against the protestors, I'd spray-paint things like "White Lives Don't Matter" to stir things up, so millions could say "See? See??". I was watching graffiti in NYC which seemed to be by one or two guys by looking at the color and handwriting. The US doesn't seem to have a "let's have a conversation" mindset. People always say "Never discuss politics and religion", until things get out of hand, and then it's all out chaos. I was listening to my neighbors talk while I was on my porch, and when a few criticize our governor (Whitmer), I'm going to assume they might just defend Trump no matter what, even though I don't like either one of them (nor Biden), and when another neighbor told me "I don't know your politics, but Trump isn't setting a good example", then I might not hesitate to criticize him. She really liked when I corrected her phrase of "the lesser of two evils" to "the evil of two lessers". I'm a very political person, and it's exhausting, so I try to avoid it, and have, but I think if everyone spoke what was in their hearts and minds, we might get more ideas, instead of binary thinking without nuance. I bring up my neighbors because I think a lot of people will remain silent unless they speak to their bubble, whether it's people they work with, friends, family, or in the case I mentioned, where I live, because I've lived here for 5 years and have enough chaos in my life and around this area, so I use the internet anonymously sometimes to experiment. I noticed something simple as an avatar can prejudice and manipulate. If for example I say the same thing on a platform, but once doing it with a white beautiful blonde woman and pasting the same exact comment with a man, or an empty avatar. Be interested in accuracy instead of validating things you've thought for years. There's nothing wrong with saying, "I was wrong". People shouldn't be quick to jump at people for feeling a certain way. We can't know everyone's life with a few posts.

No need for multi quote because I can't disagree with anything. It's funny, I feel like I have completely different taste in movies than you do, yet you're someone I usually agree with. With social issues, I also think of you as someone that has very different ideas than me. Yet again, I find it hard to disagree with you because of your thoughtfulness and fairness. You're an interesting cat.

[matt72582]

No need for multi quote because I can't disagree with anything. It's funny, I feel like I have completely different taste in movies than you do, yet you're someone I usually agree with. With social issues, I also think of you as someone that has very different ideas than me. Yet again, I find it hard to disagree with you because of your thoughtfulness and fairness. You're an interesting cat.
Thank you, and I feel the same about you. Actually, I love half the movies on your Top 10, and I respect someone like you who doesn't mind being the only voice, and I still remember your video post regarding Christine Blasey-Ford, and regardless of a few differences, I think you're sincere and coming from a good place. Politically, I feel like I'm on an island, because I think political correctness is the ultimate prejudice, and I just can't go with whatever is acceptable (so when groups change, all of a sudden their principles go out the window?) and over 20 years, I've become more lax on some social issues such as guns and immigration, or at least not high priority. I guess I just don't like group-think or when people tell others how they can or cannot feel.

[Citizen Rules]

...I like to include all people, to emulate a fist, rather than dividing us (making us easier to control and divide) into little fingers.....

I liked your post, lots of interesting thoughts there. I like the idea of all of us being a strong fist, instead of being divided into fingers that don't always work together.

People should also know that most will only see highlights - anything that makes news for the respective news stations (and their target audience). I also think there are agent provocateurs, infiltration, and a distortion of what's happening...News media=agent provocateurs, I like that, very true. To me the news has morphed into anti-news that tells a bit of the truth and screams it over and over until that small bit of the news story becomes the whole story of humanity. If we had serious and complete news coverage instead of the 10 second sound bite things might be a whole bunch better.

[Mesmerized]

George Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe while he was still standing up, and when people are getting arrested they will say a lot of things. That doesn't matter to me because he didn't need that kind of restraint, he died, and the officer let it happen and/or contributed to it. Morally I think it's just as bad regardless of what the legal defense may be.

It doesn't matter whether he said it before, or after, he was being pinned down. The cops should have heeded his pleas. Chauvin is a murderer.

[doubledenim]

Is anyone knowledgeable of Germany/Deutschland and how it has addressed and tried to reconcile its past with the Jewish people?

Someone that has been there, lived there, versus just reading about it?

[cricket]

It doesn't matter whether he said it before, or after, he was being pinned down. The cops should have heeded his pleas. Chauvin is a murderer. Why are you defending a murderer?

I'm not defending the guy and I think I've made it clear what I think of him. However, I'm afraid this might be a big problem from a legal standpoint.

[Citizen Rules]

I have a question for everyone who's watch the full video of the arrest of George Floyd:

How much pressure does it look like the cop Derek Chauvin used with his knee? Does the video look like he had his full weight pressed into into the suspects neck?

Could George Floyd move and/or lift up his head our shoulders at all?

Can any of that be told by the video?

Has there been expert discussion on news programs about the amount of pressure?

[cricket]

I have a question for everyone who's watch the full video of the arrest of George Floyd:

How much pressure does it look like the cop Derek Chauvin used with his knee? Does the video look like he had his full weight pressed into into the suspects neck?

Could George Floyd move and/or lift up his head our shoulders at all?

Can any of that be told by the video?

Has there been expert discussion on news programs about the amount of pressure?

I was thinking about this and I'm sure it will come up in court. I haven't been able to watch the whole video as it's just too upsetting. I am concerned that things are going to get a lot uglier because I'm not confident any of these guys get convicted.

[Yoda]

Yeah, I saw some stuff from one of the autopsy reports that, if true, would make a conviction difficult.

[cricket]

Yeah, I saw some stuff from one of the autopsy reports that, if true, would make a conviction difficult.

You've got various serious heart conditions, multiple hardcore drugs, and on top of that he tested positive for corona. I have no idea which of these are relevant, but you just have to put doubt in a jury's mind. I thought it was for the best when he was originally charged. From what I understand, it was upped to murder 2 in order to charge the other officers. When I saw that I thought oh crap. Now you have to prove intent. I was already seeing black experts in different fields saying how it doesn't make sense that he intended to murder him. Plus, can he get a fair trial and is that an issue? How much pressure was he putting on his neck? I've heard a lot of people in law enforcement condemn that technique but how was this guy trained and does it matter? Did they use more force because they became aware of his criminal history and if so what would the jury think? This guy was clearly in distress and he went down on his own. He may have been facing significant time if he did indeed pass a bad bill. Being arrested like that and knowing the trouble you're facing can affect your health very easily. It's very murky and that makes the case against the other officers murky as well.

[Captain Steel]

I have a question for everyone who's watch the full video of the arrest of George Floyd:

How much pressure does it look like the cop Derek Chauvin used with his knee? Does the video look like he had his full weight pressed into into the suspects neck?

Could George Floyd move and/or lift up his head our shoulders at all?

Can any of that be told by the video?

Has there been expert discussion on news programs about the amount of pressure?

I couldn't tell for sure.

Heard one news commentator say the cop was moving his other foot freely which indicated he had his full weight on George.

In the video, the cop addressing the crowd says something at one point like, "He's talking, so he isn't choking." or "He's talking, so he's breathing."

I remember something like this from first aid classes - involving choking requiring the Heimlich maneuver - if the person can talk, even in a strained way - then they are getting air through their trachea, so there's no need to start panicking (although action is necessary as whatever is restricting their airway could shift and get fully clogged) - it's when they go silent and can only motion with their hands that immediate, forceful intervention is required.

HOWEVER, that applies to a blocked airway usually from food - not from having your neck crushed under a knee which could both restrict the airway AND restrict blood flow through the carotid artery.

[jiraffejustin]

Yeah, I saw some stuff from one of the autopsy reports that, if true, would make a conviction difficult.

Do you think his trial will be fair though? How do you assemble a jury for a trial like this? If he isn't convicted more cities will burn, and I think everybody probably knows that.

[jiraffejustin]

Think about how screwed up this all is for the other three officers as well. You know for sure they didn't intend for Floyd to die, they just got caught in a terrible situation and now their lives are potentially ruined.

[MovieBuffering]

Think about how screwed up this all is for the other three officers as well. You know for sure they didn't intend for Floyd to die, they just got caught in a terrible situation and now their lives are potentially ruined.

I heard it was one of the guy's 4th day on the job. Yikes.

[cricket]

I heard it was one of the guy's 4th day on the job. Yikes.

Yea it's a tricky situation if you're one of the other cops. Do you make a scene and knock the guy off him, then Floyd suddenly gets up and injures one of them. Not only that, you're suddenly not trusted by guys who you count on to watch your back. One of them could have been a hero but it's easy for us to say.

[Captain Steel]

Think about how screwed up this all is for the other three officers as well. You know for sure they didn't intend for Floyd to die, they just got caught in a terrible situation and now their lives are potentially ruined.

I do hold them accountable for failing to intervene.
Chauvin may have been the senior officer, but they wouldn't had to have challenged his authority to just tap him on the shoulder and whisper in his ear, "Hey, man, we're being filmed and the guy's saying he can't breath - we don't want another Eric Garner situation - he's already cuffed so let's try to put him in the car again."

[jiraffejustin]

Yea it's a tricky situation if you're one of the other cops. Do you make a scene and knock the guy off him, then Floyd suddenly gets up and injures one of them. Not only that, you're suddenly not trusted by guys who you count on to watch your back. One of them could have been a hero but it's easy for us to say.

I highly doubt any of them thought Floyd was telling the truth. They probably thought Floyd was doing what a lot of people do: lying. Cops have to deal with people actively trying to get one over on them and lying to them all the time. It's very easy to armchair quarterback this thing, but I can't honestly say I would have done anything different than any of the other three officers. I can clearly say that I wouldn't have done what Chauvin did, but the other three, I don't honestly know. It's not easy to speak up sometimes, especially in the heat of the moment. Then you have to consider that you have to keep an eye on the man on the ground and the potential crowd of people that can close on you quickly. I'm not saying they handled it correctly, because the end result kind of lets us know that clearly the optimal conclusion was not the one we got.

[cricket]

I do hold them accountable for failing to intervene.
Chauvin may have been the senior officer, but they wouldn't had to have challenged his authority to just tap him on the shoulder and whisper in his ear, "Hey, man, we're being filmed and the guy's saying he can't breath - we don't want another Eric Garner situation - he's already cuffed so let's try to put him in the car again."

From what I understand one of the officers did say something. It will be interesting to see if they treat the three of them exactly the same. I don't think they can do that.

[Captain Steel]

From what I understand one of the officers did say something. It will be interesting to see if they treat the three of them exactly the same. I don't think they can do that.

Yes, I did JUST hear that on the news.

Conflicting reports: I only heard this once on a news show (and haven't heard it repeated anywhere since), and I don't remember who said it, but someone claimed that while Chauvin was kneeling on Floyd, the two other officers (not seen in the main video) were kneeling on Floyd's back thus compressing his lungs while Chauvin compressed his airway.

[cricket]

Yes, I did JUST hear that on the news.

Conflicting reports: I only heard this once on a news show (and haven't heard it repeated anywhere since), and I don't remember who said it, but someone claimed that while Chauvin was kneeling on Floyd, the two other officers (not seen in the main video) were kneeling on Floyd's back thus compressing his lungs while Chauvin compressed his airway.

Well that would definitely be taking part. I'm surprised none of the citizens rushed in. I almost did that once in my wild days when a friend, who happened to be black, was on the ground getting cuffed. There were tons of people around and I was circling them looking for an angle. I'm certainly glad I didn't do it and wouldn't even think of it now. Of course it wasn't a life threatening situation.

[cricket]

https://youtu.be/WlNoOOYi05Y

[Mesmerized]

Do you think his trial will be fair though? How do you assemble a jury for a trial like this?

Find 12 Amish people who have never heard of Derek Chauvin or George Floyd, or 12 cave dwellers.

[Captain Steel]

I don't want anyone to misread this as a defense of the cops, but at one point in the video I thought Officer Thao was being a wise acre when he said something to the guy filming; along the lines of "this is what drugs do to you."

Now, autopsy reports say George Floyd had both Fentanyl and Methamphetamine in his system.

What I thought was just a prejudiced jerk response from Thao with no other reason then to get the crowd off his back, may have actually been an informed statement based on his being able to recognize the symptoms or side-effects of drug use / abuse.

Or, it could still have been just a prejudiced jerk response to try to get the crowd off his back (figuratively, that is).

[cricket]

I've been reading some contradictory information but it seems that this murder 2 charge comes with the caveat that no intent was necessary, but it would have to be the result of a felony assault committed. This makes some sense and it would actually be easier to convict than murder 3.

[cricket]

From your point of view and many other white people, white privilege does not exist. I think it does. I've never been pulled over because of the colour of my skin, had people follow me in stores, hold onto their purse tighter, etc. This is the world we live in, Cricket would say that's not privilege its black under privilege. To me that's him agreeing with my statements but not wanting to admit it and finding different phrases.

I meant to get back to this earlier. If white people were allowed to walk into 7-11 and take stuff without paying then I'd agree with you. The things you are listing are not privileges. They're just not and nobody explains how they are. White people are generally treated fairly, not better than they should be. We need to get people in the black community up to that same level of fairness. When they get there, they won't suddenly become privileged; they'll just be where they should be. You need to tell me a benefit that white people have that they shouldn't have, because if they should have it, it's called fairness-not privilege.

The other part of it that just boggles my mind is the type of people who use the term. It's generally people who profess fairness and equality. Judging and generalizing people by skin color means everything in this conversation, yet they think it's perfectly ok to do it when it suits their agenda, which according to the agenda of not judging people by skin color, it doesn't. It's the ultimate in hypocrisy and it accomplishes nothing. It continues the same behavioral pattern by redirecting it, instead of eliminating it.

The part that I find most odd is that in the big picture we agree, yet we disagree with smaller details within that big picture. I get amused by it because I don't know what to make of it.:)

[John-Connor]

https://youtu.be/1ww-Xq0yZfw

[cricket]

More disgustingness^^. My initial reaction is that the guy who pushed him should be arrested, but I'm not sure what you do when citizens interfere with police. There has to be a better way. That being said, if a violent act is egregious enough to warrant suspension, I don't see how it doesn't warrant arrest.

[cricket]

Assault and Battery on a police officer is a more serious charge than assault and battery, and in Massachusetts it carries a minimum jail sentence of 90 days. Why isn't assault and battery by a police officer a thing?

[pahaK]

I stumbled on this on another forum. She pretty much sums my general opinion on these matters.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=273957870461345&ref=watch_permalink

[Mesmerized]

I stumbled on this on another forum. She pretty much sums my general opinion on these matters.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=273957870461345&ref=watch_permalink

The girl in the video is full of shiitake mushrooms. She's hateful and indifferent to the murder of George Floyd and she doesn't care that his family is suffering.

[TheUsualSuspect]

More disgustingness^^. My initial reaction is that the guy who pushed him should be arrested, but I'm not sure what you do when citizens interfere with police. There has to be a better way. That being said, if a violent act is egregious enough to warrant suspension, I don't see how it doesn't warrant arrest.


The old man is returning a riot helmet that was on the floor to the officers...


The pool of blood, the arresting of people right there and trying to stop the video instead of helping. Initial statements from police say he tripped.


Disgrace.

[gandalf26]

https://youtu.be/1ww-Xq0yZfw

Idiot thugs unable to act in a dynamic manner when someone trying to help them, the way that poor man was lying didn't look good at all.

[gandalf26]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8390857/Two-Buffalo-police-officers-suspended-video-shows-shoving-elderly-man-ground.html

The two Officers who shoved him have been suspended, the man is in critical condition.

The entire response team of officers have resigned in protest that their 2 colleagues have been suspended, but it's not clear if they've resigned from their jobs or just from being on that response team.

Buffalo Police initially released a statement saying "a person was injured when he tripped and fell", no he was shouted at and shoved while trying to help you, when there wasn't even any kind of disturbance going on close by(as in chaos of a riot right in front of them) requiring those kind of aggressive actions. US police slow to understand we live in the age of the handheld camera yet again.

[Stirchley]

⬆️ I’m amazed they didn’t kill that elderly man. The way the cop pushed him over & then nonchalantly walked on is staggering. I just hope the poor old fellow recovers from this. If he had any sense he wouldn’t have confronted the cops.

[gandalf26]

⬆️ I’m amazed they didn’t kill that elderly man. The way the cop pushed him over & then nonchalantly walked on is staggering. I just hope the poor old fellow recovers from this. If he had any sense he wouldn’t have confronted the cops.

*Tried to return a lost Police helmet.

[jiraffejustin]

I expect more police to follow the resigning officers. It’s already hard to be a police officer and now you are taking an even bigger risk when you know your people don’t have your back when you feel like your safety is being threatened so you act on it. Right or wrong, it seems like being a police officer isn’t worth it anymore. I don’t want to attribute malice to what I could first attribute to incompetence, but incompetent/malicious officer and a hostile political environment are going to give us the police reform we claim we want. I don’t know that it will be better however. If it does get better, I expect it to get worse first.

[cricket]

Alter the training of police, hold them to a higher standard, and then pay them a lot more.

[jiraffejustin]

Alter the training of police, hold them to a higher standard, and then pay them a lot more.

That won’t happen if they get defunded.

[Captain Steel]

I expect more police to follow the resigning officers. It’s already hard to be a police officer and now you are taking an even bigger risk when you know your people don’t have your back when you feel like your safety is being threatened so you act on it. Right or wrong, it seems like being a police officer isn’t worth it anymore. I don’t want to attribute malice to what I could first attribute to incompetence, but incompetent/malicious officer and a hostile political environment are going to give us the police reform we claim we want. I don’t know that it will be better however. If it does get better, I expect it to get worse first.

I considered becoming a cop when I was younger, but then I kept thinking if I did (based on my commitment to honesty, integrity and desire for justice) I'd end up being like Serpico.

[gandalf26]

I considered becoming a cop when I was younger, but then I kept thinking if I did (based on my commitment to honesty, integrity and desire for justice) I'd end up being like Serpico.

That is the reality I read about more and more, that many officers do become Serpico, obviously them coming to harm is highly unlikely but forced/bullied out, shunned, is a common theme for those who won't play bad cop and want to be decent in rotten departments.

[gandalf26]

I expect more police to follow the resigning officers. It’s already hard to be a police officer and now you are taking an even bigger risk when you know your people don’t have your back when you feel like your safety is being threatened so you act on it. Right or wrong, it seems like being a police officer isn’t worth it anymore. I don’t want to attribute malice to what I could first attribute to incompetence, but incompetent/malicious officer and a hostile political environment are going to give us the police reform we claim we want. I don’t know that it will be better however. If it does get better, I expect it to get worse first.

People do have the Police's back when their safety is threatened.

People don't have the Police's back when they're choking handcuffed people to death or seriously harming old age citizens who are trying to help them.

Its been a long time coming that Police in the US were humbled and turned into a proper professional service in line with a supposed first World country.

[jiraffejustin]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

[cricket]

I stumbled on this on another forum. She pretty much sums my general opinion on these matters.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=273957870461345&ref=watch_permalink

I've seen a lot of her the couple of years, and while I don't always agree with her, she's pretty impressive. She's a great role model for young women and African Americans who question if their voices can be heard. She's not afraid to be brutally honest about real topics that other people are afraid to talk about.

The girl in the video is full of shiitake mushrooms. She's hateful and indifferent to the murder of George Floyd and she doesn't care that his family is suffering.

Responses like this are a problem in this thread and out in the world. Do you care more about Floyd and his family more than any other person who passes away? It's sad and upsetting for everyone but you shouldn't. It's how it happened that's really concerning. People give honest and well thought out statements and responses, but if it's not pandering to a certain crowd then they are vilified. How about telling us what she said that you disagree with? I've been saying the same thing all along, don't misidentify the problems. There's a lot going on, and people saying nonsense about acknowledging their white privilege are living in fantasyland. The police department needs to fix their ****, and the black community needs to fix theirs. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be empathy and understanding, and a willingness to help. That cool experiment that TUS and his friend did going into a store? Yep they looked at the black friend more suspiciously. That's because they live in reality. That's not racism and the exact same would happen if the store clerk were black. But let's chalk it up to the alternate reality of white privilege. By the way, you criticized a black woman talking about the black community. If you were on the other side of the fence, that would automatically make you an insensitive racist. I don't mean to sound overly critical because again, I think everyone here means well.

[Citizen Rules]

I've been doing some self reflecting lately and I've thought about my initial feelings in the George Floyd case. On the day the news broke, my mom telephoned me and told be about this horrible event where a cop had crushed the neck of a helpless black man who was handcuffed and pleading that he couldn't breath. I was horrified and angrily declared how rotten it was that a white racist cop killed a black man. I wanted the cop to pay for what he'd done!

By the time this thread was created, I began to question my own belief that this was indeed a racist motivated hate crime. There had been no evidence that the cop was a racist, but yet I had declared him a racist just because his skin color was white and the dead man was black. I thought to myself, what if the cop had been black but the same exact circumstance happened leading to a death of a black suspect? Would I still call that racism? And what if George Floyd was a white man who died while a black cop subdued him with a knee to his neck...would that be racism? I realized I had been wrong and that without any concrete evidence of racial hatred by the cop, the skin color didn't matter.

So then I decided in my head that the cop, Derek Chauvin, must be some psycho bully cop who gets his kicks abusing people. But then I thought about that and read about the case and how George Floyd, a very large and powerful man, resisted arrest as he was being put into the squad car, claiming he was claustrophobic. That made me realize why the cops had him pinned down on the ground and when he said he couldn't breath, to them it was the same as when he said he couldn't get into the cop car because he was claustrophobic, they thought he was lying.

I don't believe any of the cops intended to hurt him or to have him die. I believe it was a one in a million circumstance where the elements came together to cause his death. Sort of like what happened to the Titanic or what they call the 'perfect storm'.

I do think the cops were careless and there forth negligent. A third degree murder charge (manslaughter) would be appropriate. Anything else and we're just throwing these officers under the wheels of justices to quell social unrest.

All Lives Matter.

[cricket]

I've been doing some self reflecting lately and I've thought about my initial feelings in the George Floyd case. On the day the news broke, my mom telephoned me and told be about this horrible event where a cop had crushed the neck of a helpless black man who was handcuffed and pleading that he couldn't breath. I was horrified and angrily declared how rotten it was that a white racist cop killed a black man. I wanted the cop to pay for what he'd done!

By the time this thread was created, I began to question my own belief that this was indeed a racist motivated hate crime. There had been no evidence that the cop was a racist, but yet I had declared him a racist just because his skin color was white and the dead man was black. I thought to myself, what if the cop had been black but the same exact circumstance happened leading to a death of a black suspect? Would I still call that racism? And what if George Floyd was a white man who died while a black cop subdued him with a knee to his neck...would that be racism? I realized I had been wrong and that without any concrete evidence of racial hatred by the cop, the skin color didn't matter.

So then I decided in my head that the cop, Derek Chauvin, must be some psycho bully cop who gets his kicks abusing people. But then I thought about that and read about the case and how George Floyd, a very large and powerful man, resisted arrest as he was being put into the squad car, claiming he was claustrophobic. That made me realize why the cops had him pinned down on the ground and when he said he couldn't breath, to them it was the same as when he said he couldn't get into the cop car because he was claustrophobic, they thought he was lying.

I don't believe any of the cops intended to hurt him or to have him die. I believe it was a one in a million circumstance where the elements came together to cause his death. Sort of like what happened to the Titanic or what they call the 'perfect storm'.

I do think the cops were careless and there forth negligent. A third degree murder charge (manslaughter) would be appropriate. Anything else and we're just throwing these officers under the wheels of justices to quell social unrest.

All Lives Matter.

You know what's interesting about this? There's more evidence of racism by the people who call the cop racist, than by the cop. There is zero evidence that anything about the incident was racially motivated. So why are people calling him racist? Because he is white obviously.

[Yoda]

Deleted several posts and issuing a temporary ban, just FYI.

[Captain Steel]

I've been doing some self reflecting lately and I've thought about my initial feelings in the George Floyd case. On the day the news broke, my mom telephoned me and told be about this horrible event where a cop had crushed the neck of a helpless black man who was handcuffed and pleading that he couldn't breath. I was horrified and angrily declared how rotten it was that a white racist cop killed a black man. I wanted the cop to pay for what he'd done!

By the time this thread was created, I began to question my own belief that this was indeed a racist motivated hate crime. There had been no evidence that the cop was a racist, but yet I had declared him a racist just because his skin color was white and the dead man was black. I thought to myself, what if the cop had been black but the same exact circumstance happened leading to a death of a black suspect? Would I still call that racism? And what if George Floyd was a white man who died while a black cop subdued him with a knee to his neck...would that be racism? I realized I had been wrong and that without any concrete evidence of racial hatred by the cop, the skin color didn't matter.

So then I decided in my head that the cop, Derek Chauvin, must be some psycho bully cop who gets his kicks abusing people. But then I thought about that and read about the case and how George Floyd, a very large and powerful man, resisted arrest as he was being put into the squad car, claiming he was claustrophobic. That made me realize why the cops had him pinned down on the ground and when he said he couldn't breath, to them it was the same as when he said he couldn't get into the cop car because he was claustrophobic, they thought he was lying.

I don't believe any of the cops intended to hurt him or to have him die. I believe it was a one in a million circumstance where the elements came together to cause his death. Sort of like what happened to the Titanic or what they call the 'perfect storm'.

I do think the cops were careless and there forth negligent. A third degree murder charge (manslaughter) would be appropriate. Anything else and we're just throwing these officers under the wheels of justices to quell social unrest.

All Lives Matter.

I'd agree with all of that.

The only part I'd question is the one in a million circumstance (yes the circumstances were one in a million, but the outcome was significantly determined by the cops' actions).

What I mean is: the duration of time Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd's neck was probably the most significant factor. Almost 9 minutes of a knee on a man's neck significantly increases the odds of something permanently injurious or fatal happening.

That seems to be the biggest problem with Chauvin's actions. Almost 9 minutes during which Floyd (who was already cuffed - which is another major factor in determining if he needed to be restrained in such a manner) said he couldn't breath, pleaded for his life and passed out.

That Chauvin continued for almost 3 minutes after Floyd passed out is unconscionable - even if he thought Floyd was faking it, a cop can't risk taking the chance that it's a fake - you role the guy over, check his vitals, and if he's faking you can go back to restraining him.

If Chauvin had used this tactic for maybe 2 or 3 minutes, it's quite likely no one would have had a problem with it, but to continue it for 9 minutes - 3 of which were after Floyd appeared to lose consciousness... well, that's a problem.

[Citizen Rules]

You know what's interesting about this? There's more evidence of racism by the people who call the cop racist, than by the cop. There is zero evidence that anything about the incident was racially motivated. So why are people calling him racist? Because he is white obviously. Good question and that's what I was asking myself. Why did I initially call it white racism?

My only answer is: like a lot of people I hate injustice...and I rushed to judgement based on my emotions...without having any hard facts. I filled in 'the facts' from preconceived ideas and then proceeded to declare that the truth, all based on my empathy for the victim. I think that's a human weakness and something the majority of people do. We say you can't judge a book by it's cover, when in reality we love to judge everything on the scantness of evidences.

[Citizen Rules]

I'd agree with all of that.

The only part I'd question is the one in a million circumstance (yes the circumstances were one in a million, but the outcome was significantly determined by the cops' actions).

What I mean is: the duration of time Chauvin kept his knee on Floyd's neck was probably the most significant factor. Almost 9 minutes of a knee on a man's neck significantly increases the odds of something permanently injurious or fatal happening.

That seems to be the biggest problem with Chauvin's actions. Almost 9 minutes during which Floyd (who was already cuffed - which is another major factor in determining if he needed to be restrained in such a manner) said he couldn't breath, pleaded for his life and passed out.

That Chauvin continued for almost 3 minutes after Floyd passed out is unconscionable - even if he thought Floyd was faking it, a cop can't risk taking the chance that it's a fake - you role the guy over, check his vitals, and if he's faking you can go back to restraining him.

If Chauvin had used this tactic for maybe 2 or 3 minutes, it's quite likely no one would have had a problem with it, but to continue it for 9 minutes - 3 of which were after Floyd appeared to lose consciousness... well, that's a problem.I agree with your reasoning. 'One in a million' was me just trying to say it was a rare fluke and not something that happened on a regular basis. I agree that Chauvin (and maybe the other cops) caused the inadvertent death of Floyd by their negligent actions. I was mainly just wondering at my own thought processes and how my mind changed.

[cricket]

Good question and that's what I was asking myself. Why did I initially call it white racism?

My only answer is: like a lot of people I hate injustice...and I rushed to judgement based on my emotions...without having any hard facts. I filled in 'the facts' from preconceived ideas and then proceeded to declare that the truth, all based on my empathy for the victim. I think that's a human weakness and something the majority of people do. We say you can't judge a book by it's cover, when in reality we love to judge everything on the scantness of evidences.

That's why I mentioned in an earlier post about my buddy getting arrested years ago. I remember thinking at the time why is he arresting the black guy when there's 8 of us and 5 of us are white. The fact of the matter once I had a clear head was that it was obvious and justified. Live and learn.

[cricket]

Deleted several posts and issuing a temporary ban, just FYI.

If anyone insults me I don't mind. I think it's good to have these talks and get things out.

[Captain Steel]

I agree with your reasoning. 'One in a million' was me just trying to say it was a rare fluke and not something that happened on a regular basis. I agree that Chauvin (and maybe the other cops) caused the inadvertent death of Floyd by their negligent actions. I was mainly just wondering at my own thought processes and how my mind changed.

I agree with your main point - the aspect of racism is only being applied due to the visual skin colors of the people involved, when, without knowing the internal though process of the cop, no one can say for sure (unless or until more information is obtained).

Plus, these types of incidents happen a lot without the same reactions from the public - white cops kill white people (sometimes justifiably, mistakenly or through brutality with hatred & anger), black cops have killed black people and white people under the same sets of variables.

In most cases, it seems the racism label is usually applied when it's a white cop and a black victim. Also, if the killer is a minority and they kill a white cop, we don't usually hear cries of racism and major protests against it even if that turns out to be a suspected part of the motivation.

[cricket]

This is all true, but at the same it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was racist. I just don't like guessing in these situations when it can help instigate problems like rioting, looting, and more killing. One of his incidents was pulling a woman out of her car, in front of her baby, for speeding. He sounds like an equal opportunity ahole tyrant who like to bully and intimidate. This time he went too far.

[Captain Steel]

This is all true, but at the same it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was racist. I just don't like guessing in these situations when it can help instigate problems like rioting, looting, and more killing. One of his incidents was pulling a woman out of her car, in front of her baby, for speeding. He sounds like an equal opportunity ahole tyrant who like to bully and intimidate. This time he went too far.

The thing is the bulk of the protesting and rioting is based on the assumption of racism before the facts are in.

If we speculate that Chauvin's victim had been a white man, it's unlikely we would have seen either the protests or the nation-wide destruction (does anyone disagree with that speculation?)

And, plenty of white people (more actually than blacks) have been wrongly killed by cops, but we have never seen major protests or riots over them.

So it seems kind of obvious that the protests and riots are due to an assumption of racism when, as you suggested, Chauvin's actions may have been based on his inner make up - he might have just as easily choked out anyone of any color or any gender under his knee just based on how he was feeling that day.

[cricket]

The thing is the bulk of the protesting and rioting is based on the assumption of racism before the facts are in.

If we speculate that Chauvin's victim had been a white man, it's unlikely we would have seen either the protests or the nation-wide destruction (does anyone disagree with that speculation?)

And, plenty of white people (more actually than blacks) have been wrongly killed by cops, but we have never seen major protests or riots over them.

So it seems kind of obvious that the protests and riots are due to an assumption of racism when, as you suggested, Chauvin's actions may have been based on his inner make up - he might have just as easily choked out anyone of any color or any gender under his knee just based on how he was feeling that day.

That pretty much sums up why I posted in this thread and blamed the media in my first post.

[gandalf26]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

Yea I must have, I guess the first half of your post sounded like playing the violin for the poor Police.

[cricket]

65167

That stretches for about two blocks and it's about a mile and a half from Fenway park. Peaceful and nobody in the streets, no problem.

[cricket]

Luckily this guy survived

https://youtu.be/VThH5GdFDHA

[cricket]

This is awful, and I'm sad that I even have to notice that skin color was not mentioned. It shouldn't have been, but it seems like the norm now.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/13-year-plead-guilty-connection-tessa-majors/story?id=71043374

[pahaK]

This is kind of relevant as well. For some reason, this didn't cause multiple deaths and days of rioting worldwide.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/

[cricket]

Holy crap that is disturbing

[Captain Steel]

This is the height of hypocrisy:
https://districtherald.com/rioters-call-for-somali-cop-who-killed-white-woman-to-be-freed-on-cnn/
https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/2020/06/rioters-call-freeing-somali-muslim-cop-who-killed-daniel-greenfield/

Protesters have been calling for justice and demonstrating against racial injustice & police brutality - but here it seems some protesters who are part of the same movement want a killer cop freed who killed a completely innocent person (the very person who called 911 for help) for absolutely no reason at all. And I can't seem to figure out any reason they'd want him freed except that the cop was black and the victim he murdered was white.

And ironically, this also occurred in Minneapolis!

[cricket]

This just happened a couple weeks ago but only made local news.

https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/family-holds-vigil-for-ahwatukee-man-fatally-shot-by-police

[Captain Steel]

My previous post: I watched the news clip a little more closely and if I may try to interpret - it sounds like the two protesters were trying to say (at the time) that unless Chauvin was prosecuted immediately, then in all fairness, another killer cop (Mohamad Noor) should be released.

At least I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that that's what they were trying to say - they wanted the same speed of justice in the George Floyd case. But if I recall, the cases were similar in that I don't believe Noor was arrested immediately either.

The irony can't be ignored though: a white woman was murdered by a black cop for no reason: the police weren't responding to arrest her, they were responding to her call for help (she heard a sexual assault occurring), she had no record. She was unarmed and a person who, by all accounts, had a very warm, welcoming and peaceful demeanor who was dressed in her bed clothes (hardly a threatening figure).

She was wearing her pajamas as she approached the car greeting them... and the cop pulled out his gun and shot her point blank in the stomach through the window of the police car.

No warning. No "stop where you are" or "freeze!" (because she most likely would have complied with such orders as she was a good and law-abiding person).

What on earth could his excuse have been?

In a sexual assault situation the victim is usually a woman - so the cops would have been expecting a woman seeking help. People who call the police from their homes are usually on the scene to greet them to provide a report of why they called (every time I've ever called the cops, I was there on the scene to greet them), or are seeking protection by the police from whatever the threat might be. Cops are used to the people who call them often being on the scene to greet them.


But no protests, no riots, no buildings burned, no assaults & murders of more innocent people committed as some kind of cry for "Justice for Justine!". The entire incident was quickly swept under the rug and virtually forgotten about by the media and the public.

[cricket]

It's just so sad that something as serious as racism is now used as a primary political tool.

[Captain Steel]

It's just so sad that something as serious as racism is now used as a primary political tool.

https://media.thedonald.win/thedonald/post/KmJO1Uwf.jpeg

[Citizen Rules]

This is kind of relevant as well. For some reason, this didn't cause multiple deaths and days of rioting worldwide.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investigations/2019/07/31/you-re-gonna-kill-me-dallas-police-body-cam-footage-reveals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/:(

This is the height of hypocrisy:
https://districtherald.com/rioters-call-for-somali-cop-who-killed-white-woman-to-be-freed-on-cnn/
https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/2020/06/rioters-call-freeing-somali-muslim-cop-who-killed-daniel-greenfield/

Protesters have been calling for justice and demonstrating against racial injustice & police brutality - but here it seems some protesters who are part of the same movement want a killer cop freed who killed a completely innocent person (the very person who called 911 for help) for absolutely no reason at all. And I can't seem to figure out any reason they'd want him freed except that the cop was black and the victim he murdered was white.

And ironically, this also occurred in Minneapolis!:(

After reading those news links I say: All Lives Matter (including white people), It's hypocrisy and self serving agenda to declare that only black lives matter, when it's clear that people of all races have died during arrest by police.

This whole thing makes me sick. I watched some TV news today at my parents house and I feel like America is heading backwards. Some black community leaders want the police forces to be disbanded. Disbanded? talk about all hell breaking loose if that happened. And the talk of Defunding is just plain ridiculous and yet it's going to happen to appease the protesters. Condemning the officers in the George Floyd case is one thing, but declaring the entire police force the enemy is quite another.

[MovieBuffering]

This whole thing makes me sick. I watched some TV news today at my parents house and I feel like America is heading backwards. Some black community leaders want the police forces to be disbanded. Disbanded? talk about all hell breaking loose if that happened. And the talk of Defunding is just plain ridiculous and yet it's going to happen to appease the protesters. Condemning the officers in the George Floyd case is one thing, but declaring the entire police force the enemy is quite another.

Lol I wonder which neighborhoods are going suffer without police? The rich ones who can hire their own security and have gates or the poor ones? Also if we disband police you better believe the 2A argument is over, I don't even like guns but I'd be getting one. I am all for police reform and law reform. I am white and feel paranoid rather then protected when I see a cop. Can't imagine what minorities feel like. But if you look at the numbers police killings are not a major issue.

This whole thing is being spun by the media as a race war/problem. I think if Trump wasn't in office there would be uproar but not as bad. I think the problem is a lot more nuanced. I think it's more about class then race and the lower class are more disproportionally black.

The Drew Brees thing is ridiculous. If you have to drag Drew Brees who is obviously not racist and probably has done more for the City Of New Orleans then almost anyone. (a predominantly black population). Drew Brees is not the problem and its painful obvious. You are allowed to dislike someone kneeing during the anthem just as they are allowed to knee. And for them to say it's not about the flag and anthem is seriously disingenuous to me. It's a free country, kneel, but there is a reason Kaep kneeled during the national anthem and not any other time during the game. The flag you dummies.

Anyways at this rate I expect Kaepernick to be Biden's running mate.

[Captain Steel]

The only thing about Drew Brees that bothered me was he felt compelled by Political Correctness & peer pressure to apologize when he'd said absolutely nothing wrong. I don't know much about him, but my respect for him dropped a notch.

I would have preferred if he'd said something like...

"I'm sorry if some people choose to be offended by what I said, but that is their choice. I expressed my honest opinion over a controversial issue that has caused a lot of pain to people who feel that disrespecting the flag & national anthem is disrespecting the freedoms those things represent and the many who gave their lives to ensure those freedoms, including the freedom to express one's feelings and to protest. If some people want to read things into what I said that were never spoken or inferred, that's their problem if they choose to engage in trying to slander my words. I said nothing intended to be offensive nor did I express any sentiments that would offend any rational person who was not looking for something to be offended by, thus I stand by what I said."

[cricket]

I did not have a problem with what Drew Brees said, or the fact that he turned around and apologized. His original statement was bad timing, something Trump would do. That was a clear mistake and not well thought out. He talked about when other people disrespect the flag and that's what got him in trouble. In the minds of the players who do it, they are not disrespecting the flag so it comes off as criticism when it's an important and emotional issue for them. It was unintentionally insensitive. Some of the backlash he received was uncalled for and over the top. The guy with what he's done off the field is practically a real life hero. Plus we want a country where people want to be able to voice their honest feelings. There needs to be more understanding on each side. But then you see how some current and former NFL players reacted, grown men who are tough as nails and they're in tears, so he apologized. Sometimes it's more important to be compassionate than right.

As far as the all lives matter thing, I've heard some black people say that they take that as minimizing what they're going through, and no lives matter unless black lives matter, etc. I don't think people who say all lives matter are looking at it in that way. There's a tricky line there because we all know that if there were a white lives matter group they would be looked at as skinheads. I think it's for the best to not make things about race, but when a black person sees another black person getting killed, they internalize it and see themselves or their son or father. Why wouldn't they when the media and many others are saying the reason it's happening is because they're black. Being black is part of the reason but who's fault is that? There are many people in the black community who blame their peers for the crime they commit. If you identify as part of a group, what someone else in that group does influences how you are looked at. There's no way around that and there's no easy answers. On the other hand when a white person sees anybody of any color get killed by police, they simply say that I'm not going to do what they did.

[Citizen Rules]

Minneapolis Votes To Disband Police Department (https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/06/07/minneapolis-votes-to-disband-police-department/)
news link

(https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/06/07/minneapolis-votes-to-disband-police-department/)As unbelievable as it might sound the Minneapolis city council voted 4 hours ago to disband the Minneapolis police. The council backed up by the mayor have a veto proof vote.

"City Council members have said they will invest in community-led safety initiatives instead of the police department."

No more police in Minneapolis, what's going to happen there now?


(https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/06/07/minneapolis-votes-to-disband-police-department/)

[cricket]

Wait a minute what does that actually mean? You can't not have police.