View Full Version : Alabama abortion law
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/14/abortion-bill-alabama-passes-ban-six-weeks-us-no-exemptions-vote-latest
Normally I would welcome any measure that increases declining population of westerners , but the law does not allow even rape and incest victims to abort.
Stirchley
05-15-19, 12:59 PM
Normally I would welcome any measure that increases declining population of westerners
What’s that supposed to mean? Racist much?
One of his pet issues is wanting western societies to have more children because he thinks they're going to get out-populated by various eastern societies (no points for guessing which ones).
That's not a topic I want us to relitigate in this thread, though. It's been repeated over and over and already dragged into mostly unrelated topics.
ash_is_the_gal
05-15-19, 01:05 PM
What’s that supposed to mean? Racist much?
oh, it's his whole thing about white people not having enough kids and their race being compromised blah blah blah
but, yeah, this bill is beyond f**ked.
Anyway, most people believe (rightly, to my mind) that this is just to trigger a court challenge, and that there's no real intention of it actually becoming law in the interim.
Beyond the supreme court path, I'm kinda feeling it's a distraction for the evangelical right from the recent gas tax and run for a state lottery that will not fund education. But created a lot of uproar from all political spectrums. This will quiet most of the push back here taking front page appeasing a lot down here.
I fully believe this is legit. There has been a lot of applause this morning in FB. Even with the lack of rape or incest restrictions.
=/
What’s that supposed to mean? Racist much?
Anybody who gets westernised has low birth rate , regardless of race . Even in my country westernised people have low birth rate . This will give advantage to people who believe in rolling back westernization , as generally they have more population growth rate . Especially in democracies where one person one vote is the norm .
Anyway I have promised cat sidhe that I won't bring up the population issue . Forgot that promise while starting the thread . So lets discuss the abortion issue rather .
Citizen Rules
05-15-19, 02:18 PM
Anyway I have promised cat sidhe that I won't bring up the population issue . Forgot that promise while starting the thread . So lets discuss the abortion issue rather . Let's discuss movies instead:) Any good movies about the abortion issue? pro or con?
Let's discuss movies instead:) Any good movies about the abortion issue? pro or con?
read about six bollywood movies that mention abortion .
https://feminisminindia.com/2018/06/07/6-bollywood-films-mention-abortion/
Seeing quite a few conservatives denounce this, by the way, for the reason alluded to above: that it's disingenuous and deliberately blunt because it's specifically designed to create a court challenge. Which seems like a reasonable response. I'm not sure it's the kind of thing someone would try to pass if they were being both earnest and clear-headed in their desire to reduce abortions.
ash_is_the_gal
05-15-19, 02:55 PM
Seeing quite a few conservatives denounce this, by the way, for the reason alluded to above: that it's disingenuous and deliberately blunt because it's specifically designed to create a court challenge. Which seems like a reasonable response. I'm not sure it's the kind of thing someone would try to pass if they were being both earnest and clear-headed in their desire to reduce abortions.
what would be the point of that, though? you seem to be alluding to something else going on under the surface but i can't imagine what that would be in this scenario
what would be the point of that, though? you seem to be alluding to something else going on under the surface but i can't imagine what that would be in this scenario
The idea, as I understand it, is to deliberately craft an extreme law with none of the typical exceptions that courts have previously required of abortion laws, to ensure that someone will sue to prevent it, and that the case will eventually advance to the Supreme Court, where they hope various precedents will be overturned.
A lot of pro-lifers think this is a pretty dubious and cynical way of achieving pro-life goals (particularly in the long-term). It's very much a "just get it done however you need to" as opposed to "create a lasting consensus in the culture."
That said, even when abortion laws are well within the broad outlines of Roe v. Wade, they've still been struck down by the courts via definitions of health that effectively create no limiting principle at all. This is one of the things that's led a lot of activists to conclude that the higher courts aren't always ruling in good faith or within the bounds of Roe v. Wade as they were set at the time, which I imagine is why they're willing to resort to this.
Through my experience (what little there is down here in rural AL), I've never really put too much stock in our collective ability or desire to "create a lasting consensus in the culture." Here, Trump is a God-fearing, Christian man and Obama was an Islamic agent that wasn't even born in 'Merka. Everything seems to be either/or and navigating the gray area between is considered weak by some, treasonous by others.
I'm sorry for the hot button rhetoric. I do not mean to derail the topic. Instead, I only mean to show a level of perception that exists here. Few (here) are interested in what others think. Eager Cold dead hands attitude, I mean. And rare are those that are empathetic to counterpoints.
Are any of those conservative critics from the state?
:(
I hate that I've become so cynical.
matt72582
05-15-19, 04:43 PM
Let's discuss movies instead:) Any good movies about the abortion issue? pro or con?
The Godfather: Part II
Alabama Governor, Kay Ivey, is getting negative posts in FB; however, local news pages are full of support, praise and blessings. It's surreal.
JoaoRodrigues
05-16-19, 05:45 AM
People saying more people should born from a given race, I say less people should born from all races. Like Mr. Miyagi says: "Balance Daniel San...". The planet doesn't produces enough resources to feed the ones that are already here. High population levels raise problems, one of the major ones, I've said it, other's might be higher competition between us, and that compromises unity, without unity we descent to all the forms of aggression. We are advancing too fast, in my opinion, people are not seeing that if you get from point A to point B faster that makes the two points the exact same thing, we start to see that with tourism and globalization for example, everything starts to be the exact same thing. My point is, we shouldn't force anything, we shouldn't fight nature, and the highest forms of nature is the only trued I know: we born and we will die, everything must have a balance and happen when it should happen.
ash_is_the_gal
05-16-19, 10:10 AM
The idea, as I understand it, is to deliberately craft an extreme law with none of the typical exceptions that courts have previously required of abortion laws, to ensure that someone will sue to prevent it, and that the case will eventually advance to the Supreme Court, where they hope various precedents will be overturned.
A lot of pro-lifers think this is a pretty dubious and cynical way of achieving pro-life goals (particularly in the long-term). It's very much a "just get it done however you need to" as opposed to "create a lasting consensus in the culture."
That said, even when abortion laws are well within the broad outlines of Roe v. Wade, they've still been struck down by the courts via definitions of health that effectively create no limiting principle at all. This is one of the things that's led a lot of activists to conclude that the higher courts aren't always ruling in good faith or within the bounds of Roe v. Wade as they were set at the time, which I imagine is why they're willing to resort to this.
:mad::mad::mad:
this is obviously enraging, but what's also equally enraging is Republicans constantly acting like they don't want government to have too much power and 'it should be up to each state'.... until it suits their purpose, then they find insidious ways to do basically the opposite of that to get what they want.
I'm not sure I follow how this is at odds with that particular belief ("it should be up to each state"). If the idea is to get Roe v. Wade overturned (or weakened, or broadened, or whatever), that's perfectly consistent with that belief. Since the Supreme Court imposed a nationwide standard to begin with, getting something like this sent to the Supreme Court is the only way to do away with that standard and allow states to make those kinds of decisions.
I have seen some conservatives basically "give up" on the ideology of states rights and start talking about federal policy the other way, in a "well we can't win this way so I guess we have to fight fire with fire" on some issues, which is questionable to say the least, but this isn't an example of that.
https://twitter.com/cjane87/status/1129049106960322566
(Jane is someone I consider to be a very thoughtful liberal. And if you're not following some thoughtful people you consistently disagree with, you really should.)
My favorite part of this story is some Alabama state senators trying to introduce, from what I can tell, good faith mitigating amendments to this bill that at least offered better/cheaper prenatal care options. Of course they were shot down by the rabble who wanted to push this stunt forward as quickly as possible. This may lead to a landmark supreme court abortion case within the next few years but my prediction is that one of Alito or Roberts will go against the party line and become an online leftwing meme hero and rightwing meme villain. It will all be really stupid
ashdoc, you're a white supermicist indian feller?
Hahaha, no shlt?
I believein rights for abortion, but a stipulation would be a stringent process and profiling, much, much more intensive then say filing for chapter 7.
Put some manpower behind gun ownership and abortions with some real detective work like passionate insurance PI's and then have all the rights you want. It's a spiritual war, but one can't discount circumstance..or an unfortunate one I should say..like the R word..or incurable disease...or chance of death by birth, etc.
I always like to go back to "flowers grow from shlt".
Let's say your life or health or finances didn't depend on it..but you just wanted to plaay and then pay for a quick hose job.
You're playing with fate, and the chance for a beautiful soul.
Some truly magnificent people have been the result of an unplanned pregnancy with sour parents and a horrible upbringing.
I guess this is my thought on the matter.
Captain Steel
05-17-19, 11:23 PM
Let's discuss movies instead:) Any good movies about the abortion issue? pro or con?
Didn't one big one just come out that got a lot of coverage in the news? I believe it was an anti-abortion movie. Don't remember what it was called, though.
chawhee
05-18-19, 12:00 AM
Well even Kavanaugh has shown some swing after the case regarding Apple and their app developers
ashdoc, you're a white supermicist indian feller?
Hahaha, no shlt?
No I am not . But I find myself opposing liberals who want to push outside minorities into my own country---like Rohingyas from Burma for example .
I do find myself in the same position in my country as whites in their countries . Grown up in privileged background because of my upper caste , but being abused regularly by media and Bollywood for the same reason .
This is one of those topics that really brings out the hypocrisy on both the left and the right. It is one thing I just cannot understand and one I usually refuse to debate unless it is with someone not immediately saying I have no right to an opinion because I am male or because I am a conservative (a very moderate one) . I am pro choice, but personally I do not think abortion is right in many cases. Thing is that is not my choice and I do not begrudge those that choose to have an abortion for whatever reason they want. BUT, I do have a right to an opinion on things as long as I do not shove that opinion down someone's throat. I have raised 3 daughters and they are all a blessing as are my sons. I care what they think and I have opinions and they have all come to me for advice about things that are certainly strictly a female concern. I cannot say I always gave the best advice and I cannot say they always listened, that is all fine, but they did have a father to talk too and to support them whatever they decided.
I guess I am saying men are not always the enemy and I am only saying that because there is so much male bashing going on recently. I understand why there is and I am not feeling sorry for myself and i am not even angry. I am just concerned that if we ignore the advice of someone based on gender alone we might miss out on something that could have helped us. I am not talking physical or medical things - I leave those to the specialists, I am talking sound advice, things that come from the heart and things that can reassure a friend or family member.
Now after saying all that I did want to talk about the bill mentioned here. It is obvious to me that it is just a stepping stone and a very slippery one at that in my mind. All it is doing is causing more of a divide in our country which is something we certainly do not need. I do see a case in the next 3 or 4 years making its way to the supreme court, I hope it is a balanced court at that time.
It just feels like scare tactics and I wish we could all use it as a catalyst to actually talk about it and search for some compromise instead of digging our heels in deeper where they are already sinking.
chawhee
05-18-19, 09:56 AM
The conversation in Missouri continues to devolve....
https://www.ajc.com/news/national/missouri-lawmaker-apologizes-for-using-term-consensual-rapes-abortion-bill-debate/YYPEvB11T22PPxoTyxh7MN/
I find it difficult to be firm-footed on either extreme side of this issue. I don't think you can defend being pro-choice under all circumstances or pro-life under all circumstances. Interesting to see how this will transpire.
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