View Full Version : Forced diversity in Hollywood
Bunker Wise
02-11-18, 04:35 PM
Its unbelievable how in Hollywood people deliberately go out their way to force diversity into movies. I have no problem with diversity, but on the other hand forced diversity is unnecessary and it worries me that some directors and people in these industries look at life through such a distorted lens.
I Have a problem with anyone who thinks in those sort of terms. Decades ago white privilege used to be a thing, but then movements started to happen and through much struggle and time the world eventually achieved equality. Yes there will be always those fools who discriminate but now anyone can get a job no matter what race you are, and being the President doesn't matter on the colour of your skin or what sex you are. And I say it's unbelievable because diversity will never stay intacted for long if we allow Hollywood and corporations like Disney to look through a lens where race matters. Where white men are presented as evil buffoons.
And this is the reality we are dealing with, with people like Kathleen Kennedy making sure forced diversity is put into action. A role should never be given to someone on their race but on their acting abilities and whether they suit the character they're playing.
Not only is forced diversity a problem but also political correctness is going way too far as new rules are being made up constantly of what is socially correct and what is not.
This kind of politically fuelled propaganda can be seen in Spider-Man homecoming where apparently the word Indian describing Native Americans is a dirty word.
Is it any wonder in a world where people are constantly treading on egg shells around political correctness to the point where they feel sick. that eventually people voted for a man who speaks his mind, a man who is impervious to the prison of political correctness that society has created.
So let us rid the world of forced diversity political correctness and reverse sexism. Because it's our children who will suffer the most in this twisted world we are creating for them. Thank you for listening and good night
Bunker Wise
02-11-18, 04:41 PM
https://youtu.be/8NbZ3tagi54
Bunker Wise
02-11-18, 04:45 PM
https://goo.gl/images/muHu9g
Decades ago white privilege used to be a thing, but then movements started to happen and through much struggle and time the world eventually achieved equality.
Strongly considering making this my sig. This post is a sig goldmine actually.
What a finale.
Reminded me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOS_F3AGIvc
I'm sorry, but I think your argument is quite childish.
Where are you drawing the conclusions that diverse roles in Hollywood are forced? So anytime a lead is not a white male, we can automatically regard it as forced? You say you have no problem with diversity, yet you're accusing diversity of being forced, and there is no real evidence to back up this claim.
You said white males are presented as evil buffoons? Well, yeah odds are some will be, just as some movie have antagonists who are Black, Asian, Indian, Mexican. Maybe I'm missing your point, but I didn't find any of your arguments point towards legitimacy.
Could you give me some examples as forced diversity in film? The Spiderman one is honestly not strong enough. You know what I think the real problem is? We need to stop assuming that casting a black man in a role is a political move, or that casting a woman is feminist propaganda. What if.... just what if... they wanted to cast a woman. Is it too hard to believe?
Having white, male leads has become so normal that seeing anything other than a white male in a leading role leads people to assume it is forced diversity, that is the problem, and the very existence of your thread is living proof of the ignorance.
So should we start picketing Black Panther? I mean talk about "forcing diversity"...Whats wrong with all the good drug dealer and pimp roles?! Not good enough for those people?
I love diversity and multiculturalism. I dont have a problem with this at all, except in Blight and that's probably more because I have gone off Will Smith and his million dollar bedroom on wheels that he loves to brag about while crying about homeless black people.
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 06:40 PM
As much as I agree about the PC stuff - it's kind of an irony that I've brought up the issue of the term "Indian" on this site before (Dani will tell you.)
I don't object to it because it's politically incorrect, but because it's historically incorrect!
And I'm a stickler for history, so much so that it trumps (no pun intended) my anti-PC stance.
First, we have a country in Asia called India (ashdoc will tell you about it) - and people from there are "Indians" (we don't need mix ups over who's who, where people are from or to confuse children further about geography).
Second, Columbus's mistake about where he landed was figured out relatively quickly, so there was no need for a completely mistaken misnomer to stick and then hang on for centuries.
Now along the same lines, I don't like how the term "Asian" has replaced the now-taboo term of "Oriental." Asian includes many many races, ethnicities, nationalities and cultures - using as a descriptor says nothing of relevance.
As much as I agree about the PC stuff - it's kind of an irony that I've brought up the issue of the term "Indian" on this site before (Dani will tell you.)
I dont recall so I wont be telling Bunker. :shrug:Apologies.
Why are so many threads seemingly about the same thing? [No need to answer.]
Guaporense
02-11-18, 08:03 PM
As much as I agree about the PC stuff - it's kind of an irony that I've brought up the issue of the term "Indian" on this site before (Dani will tell you.)
I don't object to it because it's politically incorrect, but because it's historically incorrect!
And I'm a stickler for history, so much so that it trumps (no pun intended) my anti-PC stance.
First, we have a country in Asia called India (ashdoc will tell you about it) - and people from there are "Indians" (we don't need mix ups over who's who, where people are from or to confuse children further about geography).
Second, Columbus's mistake about where he landed was figured out relatively quickly, so there was no need for a completely mistaken misnomer to stick and then hang on for centuries.
Now along the same lines, I don't like how the term "Asian" has replaced the now-taboo term of "Oriental." Asian includes many many races, ethnicities, nationalities and cultures - using as a descriptor says nothing of relevance.
In Brazil we have the distinct terms Indios for native Brazilians and Indianos for the actual Indians from India.
Oriental is also very generalizing since it even included Egypt and Syria besides China and Japan. Asian at least means East Asian, that is Chinese, Korean or Japanese or the smaller countries around these.
As much as I agree about the PC stuff - it's kind of an irony that I've brought up the issue of the term "Indian" on this site before (Dani will tell you.)
Can you remind me, please? I seriously dont remember what you're talking about. Is this like the time you told me I said Trump was a neo nazi?
The word 'Indian' to me indicates a person with heritage from the sub continent. Is that what you mean? I'm sure there are plenty of mofos who think the same so I'm not sure why you chose my call name to say that. I'm most definitely confused this morning. Another thread in this sub forum vacuumed out my remaining brain cell.
In Brazil we have the distinct terms Indios for native Brazilians and Indianos for the actual Indians from India.
Oriental is also very generalizing since it even included Egypt and Syria besides China and Japan. Asian at least means East Asian, that is Chinese, Korean or Japanese or the smaller countries around these.
That reminds me, I watched bits of a documentary last night about a particular group in south america and the word 'Indian' was used for indigenous.
Guaporense
02-11-18, 08:16 PM
Its unbelievable how in Hollywood people deliberately go out their way to force diversity into movies. I have no problem with diversity, but on the other hand forced diversity is unnecessary and it worries me that some directors and people in these industries look at life through such a distorted lens.
I Have a problem with anyone who thinks in those sort of terms. Decades ago white privilege used to be a thing, but then movements started to happen and through much struggle and time the world eventually achieved equality. Yes there will be always those fools who discriminate but now anyone can get a job no matter what race you are, and being the President doesn't matter on the colour of your skin or what sex you are. And I say it's unbelievable because diversity will never stay intacted for long if we allow Hollywood and corporations like Disney to look through a lens where race matters. Where white men are presented as evil buffoons.
And this is the reality we are dealing with, with people like Kathleen Kennedy making sure forced diversity is put into action. A role should never be given to someone on their race but on their acting abilities and whether they suit the character they're playing.
Not only is forced diversity a problem but also political correctness is going way too far as new rules are being made up constantly of what is socially correct and what is not.
This kind of politically fuelled propaganda can be seen in Spider-Man homecoming where apparently the word Indian describing Native Americans is a dirty word.
Is it any wonder in a world where people are constantly treading on egg shells around political correctness to the point where they feel sick. that eventually people voted for a man who speaks his mind, a man who is impervious to the prison of political correctness that society has created.
So let us rid the world of forced diversity political correctness and reverse sexism. Because it's our children who will suffer the most in this twisted world we are creating for them. Thank you for listening and good night
Thing is that now I am beginning to understand US culture more and I think that the US has a certain characteristic that makes the idea of achieving forced "equality" important. The US is not a ehtnically homogeneous nation, instead it is a collection of different "nations" each has it's own values and culture, for example, Asian Americans, Hispanic (i.e. "Mexicans and Central" Americans) Americans and African Americans are distinct nations from Anglo Saxon Americans.
While other European Americans mostly integrated into the "mainstream" Anglo Saxon American culture the Asian, Hispanic and African Americans build up their own distinct "nations" inside the US (I am using the word nation in the way Brazilians often use to mean "ethnic groups" instead of "countries"). These distinct "nations" feel like they should be well represented into broad American culture, which includes Hollywood, being perhaps the most popular part of American culture in the wider world.
It's like the Roman Empire, in the beginning of the Roman rule over the ancient world, only Italians (the "real Romans") were in the Roman Senate but after a couple of centuries the senate was made up by mostly provincials and even the emperor was born in Spain (Marcus Aurelius). Hollywood movies from 1950's mostly featured European Americans but as the society of the US consolidated and it's distinct nations got more integrated into the whole cultural "matrix" of the country we see progressively more and more actors from the "minority nations" that exist inside the US confederation.
Also, race does matter in the US and matters a lot: it is a signifies which American nation you belong to. For example, African Americans speak with a different dialect of English than European Americans to the point where I can tell if someone is an African American just through the telephone. Hence, since race does matter each race wants to be well represented in American mainstream culture which is in many ways what Hollywood embodies the most.
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 08:17 PM
In Brazil we have the distinct terms Indios for native Brazilians and Indianos for the actual Indians from India.
Oriental is also very generalizing since it even included Egypt and Syria besides China and Japan. Asian at least means East Asian, that is Chinese, Korean or Japanese or the smaller countries around these.
Still - it sounds like the Brazilian term is based on Columbus's mistake. The only reason any Native American has been called an Indian (or similar term) is because Columbus THOUGHT he was in Asia.
Yes, "Asian" in recent times has seemingly taken on the designator of people from the far east, yet Asia is the largest continent on earth and encompasses Middle Easterners: Arabs, Persians, Turks, Jews and ethnicities of every sorts as large portions of Russia are in Asia, along with the homes of the Finno-Ugric, Tungusic, Mongols, Slavs, Bengalis, Pakistanis, and Indians. Sounds like a better term is in order.
Guaporense
02-11-18, 08:19 PM
That reminds me, I watched bits of a documentary last night about a particular group in south america and the word 'Indian' was used for indigenous.
Indeed. The Brazilian government's organization that deals with native Brazilians is called "Fundacao Nacional do Indio" or "National Foundation of the Indian" in English:
http://www.funai.gov.br/
East Asians are Asian it's not an inaccurate term. Typically only mainland Europeans get called European, British people are usually exempted from that for whatever reason. People like to specify Middle Easterners or whatever and they don't for East Asians, they are Asians though so i don't see the problem with using that term.
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 08:30 PM
East Asians are Asian it's not an inaccurate term. Typically only mainland Europeans get called European, British people are usually exempted from that for whatever reason. People like to specify Middle Easterners or whatever and they don't for East Asians, they are Asians though so i don't see the problem with using that term.
It's not inaccurate - it's just very general.
Imagine if I robbed a bank and the description given on an APB was: Animal: Mammal: Primate - none are inaccurate, but not specific enough. And based on colloquial use, police would probably be looking for a gorilla based on the word "primate" instead of a homosapien (which itself would be far too general to be of any help as it wouldn't differentiate from over 7 billion others).
Or what if I were described as North American - it wouldn't be of much use is all I'm saying.
It's not inaccurate - it's just very general.
Imagine if I robbed a bank and the description given on an APB was: Animal: Mammal: Primate - none are inaccurate, but not specific enough. And based on colloquial use, police would probably be looking for a gorilla based on the word "primate" instead of a homosapien (which itself would be far too general to be of any help as it wouldn't differentiate from over 7 billion others).
Or what if I were described as North American - it wouldn't be of much use is all I'm saying.
But you know what people are referring to when they say Asian.
Now we've got that out of the way you should send me your top ten favourite foods for the Countdown i'm running - https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=53044
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 08:45 PM
But you know what people are referring to when they say Asian.
Now we've got that out of the way you should send me your top ten favourite foods for the Countdown i'm running - https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=53044
You've got it, my Indian friend!
African Americans speak with a different dialect of English than European Americans to the point where I can tell if someone is an African American just through the telephone.
This is largely a stereotype of course. You only assume all blacks talk the same because when you talk with blacks that dont sound that way on the phone you assume they are white. Believe me theres LOTS of blacks that dont sound ebonic in the least... And in America, they tend to pat them on the head and call them "well spoken" which is a euphemism for "he actually sounds intelligent!" This has faded some with the newest generation but I certainly saw this a lot growing up.
matt72582
02-11-18, 09:25 PM
I wish we had a meritocracy, in every industry.
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 09:40 PM
So should we start picketing Black Panther? I mean talk about "forcing diversity"...Whats wrong with all the good drug dealer and pimp roles?! Not good enough for those people?
"Forced" diversity would be placing a non-black actor in the role of a long established character who is a native of a central-eastern African land because someone feels there's not enough representation of other-than-black minorities. And yeah, it would be ridiculous to have a non-black actor playing the role of a character who's whole being is about his roots.
If Hollywood wants a character of a certain ethnicity, then use one already established or create a new one, rather than alter an existing & established character.
"Forced" diversity would be placing a non-black actor in the role of a long established character who is a native of a central-eastern African land because someone feels there's not enough representation of other-than-black minorities. And yeah, it would be ridiculous to have a non-black actor playing the role of a character who's whole being is about his roots.
Forced diversity can also mean, in the minds of many bigots, the very act of “liberal Hollywood” green lighting and special handling a movie like Black Panther and “forcing” us to swallow a black lead superhero character when every lead superhero character has always been white. They see it as a kind of movie affirmative action which they also view as fundamentally abhorrent and the fact that its getting great reviews as the industry "pandering" to minorities.
If Hollywood wants a character of a certain ethnicity, then use one already established or create a new one, rather than alter an existing & established character.
Depends on the character. Never really understood why people lost their minds about black Annie. Or why people get upset over all black casts of Shakespeare plays or the like (have you not seen Lion King??) And I don’t care what you say, The Wiz was awesome. But yeah I wouldn’t have a black Abraham Lincoln or anything. :D
d_chatterley
02-11-18, 11:42 PM
Decades ago white privilege used to be a thing, but then movements started to happen and through much struggle and time the world eventually achieved equality.
I see somebody got a hold of a time machine and managed to travel back in time and pay us a visit. I just hope you did not travel from too far in the future.
Now, can I please borrow your machine? I need to travel back in time and take care of...a few things. :D
Rather than bother about ethnic diversity in Hollywood and all that , why don't you white people produce more children? Your numbers are declining alarmingly. All that white folks have is pets . And pets aren't substitute for children.
Captain Steel
02-11-18, 11:58 PM
Rather than bother about ethnic diversity in Hollywood and all that , why don't you white people produce more children? Your numbers are declining alarmingly. All that white folks have is pets . And pets aren't substitute for children.
Yeah, but pets are a lot cheaper. ;)
(Hey, I don't have either!)
Yeah, but pets are a lot cheaper. ;)
(Hey, I don't have either!)
I don't have either too .
But Indians are not declining in numbers. So I don't feel any responsibility to increase numbers of my people.
Captain Steel
02-12-18, 12:06 AM
I don't have either too .
But Indians are not declining in numbers. So I don't feel any responsibility to increase numbers of my people.
Seems like they're certainly increasing in numbers in America! ;)
So, ash, how do you feel about the American misnomer of calling its native peoples by your country's people's name, all due to a mistake made over 500 years ago?
Can you remind me, please? I seriously dont remember what you're talking about. Is this like the time you told me I said Trump was a neo nazi?
Third time lucky, then I'm going off to watch all of those PoCs competing at the winter olympics.
Captain Steel
02-12-18, 12:13 AM
Third time lucky, then I'm going off to watch all of those PoCs competing at the winter olympics.
I thought I discussed this with you on a couple occassions - maybe it was someone else.
I thought I discussed this with you on a couple occassions - maybe it was someone else.
Hmmm. That's what you always say. Interesting.
OK so Bunker, have you actually given a reason why this pisses you off so much?
Seems like they're certainly increasing in numbers in America! ;)
So, ash, how do you feel about the American misnomer of calling its native peoples by your country's people's name, all due to a mistake made over 500 years ago?
The Indians from the subcontinent have high income and high standard of living--at least those who have migrated to America. So they are not a problem. They contribute in a positive way to America.
https://blogs.voanews.com/all-about-america/2015/05/08/this-us-ethnic-group-makes-the-most-money/
Nice to remember a time when India was so desirable that Columbus actually mounted an expedition to reach it .
Captain Steel
02-12-18, 12:19 AM
Hmmm. That's what you always say. Interesting.
OK so Bunker, have you actually given a reason why this pisses you off so much?
That's what I always say?
Captain Steel
02-12-18, 12:23 AM
The Indians from the subcontinent have high income and high standard of living--at least those who have migrated to America. So they are not a problem. They contribute in a positive way to America.
Nice to remember a time when India was so desirable that Columbus actually mounted an expedition to reach it .
Well said, ash. I have no problem with Indians coming to America or anyone who comes legally and doesn't seek to hurt anyone.
That's what I always say?
How you keep confusing me with someone else offends my sensitive white privileged snowflake feels.
Cynema De Bergerac
02-12-18, 02:56 AM
This thread is just http://awardswatch.com/forums/images/smilies/smileys/vomit.gif
Rather than bother about ethnic diversity in Hollywood and all that , why don't you white people produce more children? Your numbers are declining alarmingly. All that white folks have is pets . And pets aren't substitute for children.
Pets > children.
Bill Burr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wq_edHqpdA
cat_sidhe
02-12-18, 04:29 AM
I don't have either too .
But Indians are not declining in numbers. So I don't feel any responsibility to increase numbers of my people.
But if everyone bred at rate we all die. The planet can't support the numbers. So we'll have a GREAT PLAGUE which only the rich will probably survive.
I am not talking of overpopulating the planet . At least white people are not going to do that . But what about arresting decline of population ? Every couple having two kids to succeed them is not an environmental disaster.
I think most white people nowadays want to enjoy life and party and lie on the beach and relax . They feel kids are a burden to this lifestyle. That's the real reason you folks don't want to have kids . Please don't give excuses . I won't believe them .
To those poking fun at me : I am your well wisher . There are others who are happy that you are declining in numbers because they have anger about the colonialism exercised by the white people over the centuries. I am not one of them.
Anyway I won't argue further.
Pets > children.
Bill Burr
I only know this guy from Better Call Saul because I dont watch much stand up. That was great.
I am not talking of overpopulating the planet . At least white people are not going to do that . But what about arresting decline of population ? Every couple having two kids to succeed them is not an environmental disaster.
Yeah, except in reality it's Idiocracy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzbWXgM0ygU
I am not talking of overpopulating the planet . At least white people are not going to do that . But what about arresting decline of population ? Every couple having two kids to succeed them is not an environmental disaster.
I think most white people nowadays want to enjoy life and party and lie on the beach and relax . They feel kids are a burden to this lifestyle. That's the real reason you folks don't want to have kids . Please don't give excuses . I won't believe them .
To those poking fun at me : I am your well wisher . There are others who are happy that you are declining in numbers because they have anger about the colonialism exercised by the white people over the centuries. I am not one of them.
Anyway I won't argue further.
I have edited the post which I have quoted to make it longer . But it seems there will be a gang up against me so I will scram from this thread.
Its unbelievable how in Hollywood people deliberately go out their way to force diversity into movies. I have no problem with diversity, but on the other hand forced diversity is unnecessary and it worries me that some directors and people in these industries look at life through such a distorted lens.
Wait, are you telling me you do not like how Hollywood picks and chooses, how they manipulate particular cohorts (gender, ethnicity or race) into their films whilst neglecting others? I hate to tell you this, but this has always happened. What you are saying is not new at all. The decision to, as you say, enforce diversity fundamentally emanates from the same place to enforce a particular type of women in Hollywood films or a particular race and age group.
Commercial film, by its essence, is social engineering. It is all about propagating a narrative and ideal at the expense of another. You simply just do not like this narrative that is being propagated in Hollywood at the moment. But don't conceal it as 'diversity'. You are not upset about forced diversity from what I can tell. Rather, you are upset that Hollywood is emphasising another race, another sex, another ethos, another narrative, another ideology, another framework that you simply do not like and have obvious resentment towards.
Bunker Wise
02-12-18, 08:16 AM
This thread is just http://awardswatch.com/forums/images/smilies/smileys/vomit.gif
explain why you don't like this Thead :p Enlighten me and please use logic instead of emojis if that's not too much to ask.
No explanation that's what I thought :rolleyes:
Iroquois
02-12-18, 08:30 AM
Because it's more of the same complaining about diversity you posted at length about films like The Last Jedi. Matteo does a good job of summarising the flaws in your logic (such as it is).
Bunker Wise
02-12-18, 08:46 AM
Wait, are you telling me you do not like how Hollywood picks and chooses, how they manipulate particular cohorts (gender, ethnicity or race) into their films whilst neglecting others? I hate to tell you this, but this has always happened. What you are saying is not new at all. The decision to, as you say, enforce diversity fundamentally emanates from the same place to enforce a particular type of women in Hollywood films or a particular race and age group.
Commercial film, by its essence, is social engineering. It is all about propagating a narrative and ideal at the expense of another. You simply just do not like this narrative that is being propagated in Hollywood at the moment. But don't conceal it as 'diversity'. You are not upset about forced diversity from what I can tell. Rather, you are upset that Hollywood is emphasising another race, another sex, another ethos, another narrative, another ideology, another framework that you simply do not like and have obvious resentment towards.
If the framework changes it's better for that change to happen naturally rather than being forced To fit the narrative of a politically fuelled agenda. If I was chosen as an actor to play a role I would rather be chosen from my acting ability not because of my race. As that will create friction, if Lando Calrissian in Star Wars was played by a white male that would bother me especially if it was to suit a racially fuelled political agenda.
if we lived in a world of black apologises Lando would be cast as white, just right now we live in a world of white apologises, in other words social justice warriors Who will cast Mary Jane as black, again this bothers me, not to say forced diversity has never occurred before which it has but never before on this scale. if equality and diversity is to be achieved let it happen naturally because forcing it is the wrong way to go. The people who force it shouldn't be directing movies especially if they're looking at life in that kind of way.
And I have no resentment towards race if you think I do you haven't been listening to what I'm saying.
Bunker Wise
02-12-18, 08:57 AM
Because it's more of the same complaining about diversity you posted at length about films like The Last Jedi. Matteo does a good job of summarising the flaws in your logic (such as it is).
As always your comments are greatly appreciated :) But what are you doing here I thought you were supposed to be excelled.
https://youtu.be/mxbzhNqPre4
Iroquois
02-12-18, 09:18 AM
But then it becomes a question of what exactly you would consider a "natural" change, which just seems like you're shifting the goalposts and refusing to accept any changes that you don't consider "natural" for whatever reason. You also have to remember that, if change counts as a "politically-fueled agenda", then so does a lack of change - that's what Matteo is getting at when he talks about how Hollywood has always been like this and that their underlying political agenda (which has always been there) is changing from one you passively agreed with to one with which you actively disagree. You go on about your problems with "forced diversity", but have you ever stopped to consider how and why other people have a problem with Hollywood's forced lack of diversity? Solving that problem requires a direct approach to changing the situation, not sitting around waiting for the change to "happen naturally".
Besides, I've said it before and I'll say it again, but your insistence that you have no inherent problem with diversity despite continuing to make multiple lengthy posts and threads complaining about it make it extremely difficult to think that you don't have a problem with it.
Bunker Wise
02-12-18, 10:24 AM
But then it becomes a question of what exactly you would consider a "natural" change, which just seems like you're shifting the goalposts and refusing to accept any changes that you don't consider "natural" for whatever reason. You also have to remember that, if change counts as a "politically-fueled agenda", then so does a lack of change - that's what Matteo is getting at when he talks about how Hollywood has always been like this and that their underlying political agenda (which has always been there) is changing from one you passively agreed with to one with which you actively disagree. You go on about your problems with "forced diversity", but have you ever stopped to consider how and why other people have a problem with Hollywood's forced lack of diversity? Solving that problem requires a direct approach to changing the situation, not sitting around waiting for the change to "happen naturally".
Besides, I've said it before and I'll say it again, but your insistence that you have no inherent problem with diversity despite continuing to make multiple lengthy posts and threads complaining about it make it extremely difficult to think that you don't have a problem with it.
You're talking like there is a barrier stopping anyone of a ethnic background from getting a role in a film. You say "don't sit around and wait for change to happen, But diversity has been already achieved not saying discrimination will ever die. But in the history of America this is the first time jobs education and many things are welcomed to all no matter what race. Staring the pot by hiring actors based on their race seems completely unnecessary. And not only that but in Disney Star Wars every white male character is presented as stroppy evil and buffoonish. Equality is not achieved bye tilting the scales in the opposite direction in order to defend an already excepted minority. And if you think i'm a racist for talking lengthy on this subject maybe you should consider that I'm trying to point out something that needs to be seen, and its name is propaganda
Just FYI, there's already a lengthy discussion about the possibility of a black Bond (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=32614). If you want to continue, no worries, but I'll move any future posts there (and might go back and move the earlier ones).
(I just went ahead and moved them all. Carry on.)
Just FYI, there's already a lengthy discussion about the possibility of a black Bond (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=32614). If you want to continue, no worries, but I'll move any future posts there (and might go back and move the earlier ones).
how about a black superman lol
captain steel will have to change his avtar :D
Captain Steel
02-12-18, 02:32 PM
how about a black superman lol
captain steel will have to change his avtar :D
I'm changing my name to Captain Steel Dossier.
anybody for a black pope ? only theists allowed to discuss :p
Captain Steel
02-12-18, 02:50 PM
anybody for a black pope ? only theists allowed to discuss :p
That's certainly possible, isn't it? I don't really know how popes are elected.
On topic: if people look on YouTube for Marvel Comics and Diversity there are some interesting videos on what's happened to the company - almost all of its characters in the books have undergone gender changes, sexual orientation changes, nationality & legal status changes, religion changes, race & ethnic changes all to appeal to political correctness and spread SJW propaganda instead of focusing on action & drama-driven stories about great characters. Consequently, they've alienated longtime fans while newer ones see right through the ploy - the pandering, poor writing and high prices have resulted in plummeting sales.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsUGm1ATJB4&t=1650s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSs42Bv-mcU&t=187s
That's certainly possible, isn't it? I don't really know how popes are elected.
popes normally are italian . only one pope ( pope benedict ) has been german . the current pope ( pope francis ) is an argentine citizen , but of italian descent .
ash_is_the_gal
02-12-18, 03:39 PM
I think most white people nowadays want to enjoy life and party and lie on the beach and relax . They feel kids are a burden to this lifestyle. That's the real reason you folks don't want to have kids . Please don't give excuses . I won't believe them good, cause i aint wasting breath explaining, for the MILLIONTH TIME, to some random a-hole why i don't have kids yet. and i really couldn't care less if white people are a dying breed. good. we're awful anyway.
popes normally are italian . only one pope ( pope benedict ) has been german . the current pope ( pope francis ) is an argentine citizen , but of italian descent .
Actually the last popes going back to the 70's have been Argentinian, German and Polish. The last Italian pope died in 1978. And as for a black pope, I think its inevitable considering Africa is number one with a bullet as far as growth of Catholicism AND the African Catholics tend to be some of the most conservative. So the church will probably want to bring one in just to ride that wave.
If the framework changes it's better for that change to happen naturally rather than being forced To fit the narrative of a politically fuelled agenda. If I was chosen as an actor to play a role I would rather be chosen from my acting ability not because of my race. As that will create friction, if Lando Calrissian in Star Wars was played by a white male that would bother me especially if it was to suit a racially fuelled political agenda.
if we lived in a world of black apologises Lando would be cast as white, just right now we live in a world of white apologises, in other words social justice warriors Who will cast Mary Jane as black, again this bothers me, not to say forced diversity has never occurred before which it has but never before on this scale. if equality and diversity is to be achieved let it happen naturally because forcing it is the wrong way to go. The people who force it shouldn't be directing movies especially if they're looking at life in that kind of way.
And I have no resentment towards race if you think I do you haven't been listening to what I'm saying.
The thing is, Hollywood - or film for that matter - never allows things to just change 'naturally'. In every Hollywood film, there are thousands of calculated, detailed and deliberate decisions, from the race of the cast to the sexuality of the cast to even the age of the cast.
You are presupposing that Hollywood has - before this ostensible change in its attitudes about diversity - embraced the idea of letting things flow 'naturally'. It has always been a manipulation of reality and it has always, in your words, had a 'distorted lens'. The only difference here is the current lens they are looking through is one you disapprove of.
Right now, Hollywood does not care about diversity and social justice enough on a purely ideological level to place it in their films. That is fear-mongering, and something Alex Jones, Ben Shapiro or Richard Spencer might say. If anyone knows anything about the current Hollywood model, it is about making money at the lowest possible risk. And I sincerely doubt Hollywood right now is merely an instrument designed to advance political ideals. Yes, they are primarily left-wing, but is that because Hollywood consists of a bunch of radical activists using the medium of film for their social justice, or is it because they are vein, cupid businessmen who understands that the social justice narrative, at the moment, is prevalent and 'trendy'?
At the moment, Hollywood has realised that social justice narratives are largely resonating with the American public. And they have tapped into that. They want to have a reputation of being an industry that is progressive because more people will buy tickets and watch their content, sometimes on that basis alone. Sure, there is much dissent, but overall, a film starts, primarily, with a good and safe (sort of the opposite of 'risk') reputation if it elects or at least makes the impression it has elected to cast non-white actors, or if it is a film about racism, female empowerment, and so on.
And, yes, I did not mean you have resentment towards race. I meant you have a resentment towards this narrative that is being propagated, which you do.
matt72582
02-12-18, 04:47 PM
The thing is, Hollywood - or film for that matter - never allows things to just change 'naturally'. In every Hollywood film, there are thousands of calculated, detailed and deliberate decisions, from the race of the cast to the sexuality of the cast to even the age of the cast.
You are presupposing that Hollywood has - before this ostensible change in its attitudes about diversity - embraced the idea of letting things flow 'naturally'. It has always been a manipulation of reality and it has always, in your words, had a 'distorted lens'. The only difference here is the current lens they are looking through is one you disapprove of.
Right now, Hollywood does not care about diversity and social justice enough on a purely ideological level to place it in their films. That is fear-mongering, and something Alex Jones, Ben Shapiro or Richard Spencer might say. If anyone knows anything about the current Hollywood model, it is about making money at the lowest possible risk. And I sincerely doubt Hollywood right now is merely an instrument designed to advance political ideals. Yes, they are primarily left-wing, but is that because Hollywood consists of a bunch of radical activists using the medium of film for their social justice, or is it because they are vein, cupid businessmen who understands that the social justice narrative, at the moment, is prevalent and 'trendy'?
At the moment, Hollywood has realised that social justice narratives are largely resonating with the American public. And they have tapped into that. They want to have a reputation of being an industry that is progressive because more people will buy tickets and watch their content, sometimes on that basis alone. Sure, there is much dissent, but overall, a film starts, primarily, with a good and safe (sort of the opposite of 'risk') reputation if it elects or at least makes the impression it has elected to cast non-white actors, or if it is a film about racism, female empowerment, and so on.
And, yes, I did not mean you have resentment towards race. I meant you have a resentment towards this narrative that is being propagated, which you do.
"trendy justice warriors"
"trendy justice warriors"
I think a lot of social justice fundamentally emanates from a good spot, even if it does have some deleterious implications from time-to-time, In fact, despite what individuals like Jordan Peterson may claim, the movement is just as much modern - than it is postmodern - in its philosophical and ideological orientation. The idea of emancipating individuals from systematic and overt oppression? Sounds rather modern to me.
Now, yes, I would also agree there is a 'trendy' element to it. This refers to the people who spout lot's of reductionist and inflammatory things all just to appear radical, edgy and subversive. The idea that all white men are oppressors is very appealing to individuals, and it is an ideology that one can easily be drawn to, especially if you are from a marginalised position yourself. I personally find such an assertion exaggerated and highly dogmatic, even if I agree with some of its more sensible principles (such as one's race and sexuality can hinder or benefit your position in a collective group).
The problem with the whole SJW movement is that we are only hearing the extremities from both sides. It is fear-mongering trite most of it all, and completely antithetical to proper discourse. And I think it also reveals a lot of ontological insecurities from both sexes.
There is nothing wrong with Hollywood electing to show diversity, just like they elected to show a particular type of women or man in most of their films for most of their history.
Of course, we are free to critique what they do and do not do, but the OP is a perfect example of how the tiresome, fear-mongering BS of the SJW dilemma has infiltrated into one's worldview. We ought to be more critical and nuanced about this and less dogmatic.
matt72582
02-12-18, 07:59 PM
I think a lot of social justice fundamentally emanates from a good spot, even if it does have some deleterious implications from time-to-time, In fact, despite what individuals like Jordan Peterson may claim, the movement is just as much modern - than it is postmodern - in its philosophical and ideological orientation. The idea of emancipating individuals from systematic and overt oppression? Sounds rather modern to me.
Now, yes, I would also agree there is a 'trendy' element to it. This refers to the people who spout lot's of reductionist and inflammatory things all just to appear radical, edgy and subversive. The idea that all white men are oppressors is very appealing to individuals, and it is an ideology that one can easily be drawn to, especially if you are from a marginalised position yourself. I personally find such an assertion exaggerated and highly dogmatic, even if I agree with some of its more sensible principles (such as one's race and sexuality can hinder or benefit your position in a collective group).
The problem with the whole SJW movement is that we are only hearing the extremities from both sides. It is fear-mongering trite most of it all, and completely antithetical to proper discourse. And I think it also reveals a lot of ontological insecurities from both sexes.
There is nothing wrong with Hollywood electing to show diversity, just like they elected to show a particular type of women or man in most of their films for most of their history.
Of course, we are free to critique what they do and do not do, but the OP is a perfect example of how the tiresome, fear-mongering BS of the SJW dilemma has infiltrated into one's worldview. We ought to be more critical and nuanced about this and less dogmatic.
I love going back to public figures to see their "values" change when it's convenient. Simply going to YouTube (for example) and seeing one person describe a single event in history, but also how it changes for their convenience and opportunity.
I also agree there aren't just two sides; there could be 7 sides. It's easier for the media to simplify it for their bias (financial), just like a sports match.
I think it's cathartic for some people, while others are trying to cash in on the chaos. Conservatives going to liberal causes back in the day because of their supposed sexual liberation. Now if a not-so-rich guy wants sex, use an app, or cover every message with a bunch of #metoo phrases.
What's new in this era, is this new online persona, which seems to be more important, since most communication isn't face to face. That's another problem -- using old methods for a new way of life.
If people feel guilty, maybe they have something to be guilty about... I also don't believe they (many) believe. I think both sides are controlled because of a mutuality of purpose (power/money), that there's a small spectrum of debate to say in essence "Ok, this is as far as you go" or planting a single example of an extremist outlier to disregard an argument that might carry some weight.
Even those who "believe" - most seem to believe only as far as the money goes. And if there's an unintended consequence where someone does go broke, and that becomes a story until there's a new story about a "comeback".
I think if the cause was humanity, there wouldn't be a necessity to marginalize people by groups that the establishment uses for their convenience. It's easier to control a divided population with no purpose other than competition. Personally, I think someone's favorite movies tells me more about a person as opposed to the location of where someone's parents had sex; the pigment of skin, etc. I don't think you can legislate kindness and understanding, but unfortunately the people seem to echo the media narrative, which is almost always gossip and at best, trivial.
Citizen Rules
02-12-18, 08:21 PM
I don't care if the next Bond is black, white, or etc...But give him a proper British accent, he's a British Secret Service agent after all.
I don't care if the next Bond is black, white, or etc...But give him a proper British accent, he's a British Secret Service agent after all.
Elba is English despite being known mostly for playing Americans. Well except Luther.
good, cause i aint wasting breath explaining, for the MILLIONTH TIME, to some random a-hole why i don't have kids yet. and i really couldn't care less if white people are a dying breed. good. we're awful anyway.
But you posted pictures in personal pictures thread just one or two years ago about your boyfriend proposing to you. Surely the pressure to have kids is not so much just so immediately. You are just creating drama .
And why this culture of self hate ? Is this what liberalism has come to ? Calling one's own race awful . Can understand the counter reaction to all this and the rise of trump more clearly now .
MovieGal
02-12-18, 11:59 PM
ashdoc
I know what you said about not caring why young adults dont want to have children..
My daughter has a atrophy of Muscular Dystrophy and she has to have genetic counseling when she decides to have children.. I think this has prolonger her decision to have children.. she's 24 years old and I dont see her having a child until she's closer to 30 years old..
There are reasons that young adults do wait...
Captain Steel
02-13-18, 12:14 AM
But you posted pictures in personal pictures thread just one or two years ago about your boyfriend proposing to you. Surely the pressure to have kids is not so much just so immediately. You are just creating drama .
And why this culture of self hate ? Is this what liberalism has come to ? Calling one's own race awful . Can understand the counter reaction to all this and the rise of trump more clearly now .
This reminds me of the latest Pelosi kerfuffle:
I believe it was during her many-hour-long filibuster and it raised some eyebrows - her grandson's birthday wish was to look Latino like his friend and it was so... "beautiful."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPwj31_C55c
Now if we reverse the roles and have a dark-skinned child wish, in front of his family, to look like his Nordic friend, and desire white skin, blond hair and blue eyes - it's certain that, at best, the child would get a lecture from family not to disparage how they were born and how God made them, nor wish they were different, and that they are beautiful & special just the way they are because they are different from everyone else, that they should take pride in their skin, hair and eyes because they are the same as his family and their forefathers, and they should never wish for an easier life from a different skin color, etc., etc. (and you can probably imagine some of the more negative things that might be said).
I am not talking about delaying children ( which I have no problem with ) but of not having them at all .
You see , democracy is a game of numbers with one person one vote system. With declining numbers the importance of whites is bound to decline and the importance of those races which are increasing in numbers will increase. So before complaining about forced diversity you people must ensure that you are represented in society in adequate numbers.
good, cause i aint wasting breath explaining, for the MILLIONTH TIME, to some random a-hole why i don't have kids yet. and i really couldn't care less if white people are a dying breed. good. we're awful anyway.
I couldnt agree more, ash. I dont know why on earth some people think another person's or couple's choices concerning their reproductive systems is any of their business.
Captain Steel
02-13-18, 12:35 AM
I am not talking about delaying children ( which I have no problem with ) but of not having them at all .
You see , democracy is a game of numbers with one person one vote system. With declining numbers the importance of whites is bound to decline and the importance of those races which are increasing in numbers will increase. So before complaining about forced diversity you people must ensure that you are represented in society in adequate numbers.
I know what you're referring to. But we have to speak in code...
weil, wie Sie wissen, bestimmte Themen, die als politisch inkorrekt oder "phobisch" betrachtet werden, hier von bestimmten Plakaten verboten sind.
Iroquois
02-13-18, 09:40 AM
You're talking like there is a barrier stopping anyone of a ethnic background from getting a role in a film. You say "don't sit around and wait for change to happen, But diversity has been already achieved not saying discrimination will ever die. But in the history of America this is the first time jobs education and many things are welcomed to all no matter what race. Staring the pot by hiring actors based on their race seems completely unnecessary. And not only that but in Disney Star Wars every white male character is presented as stroppy evil and buffoonish. Equality is not achieved bye tilting the scales in the opposite direction in order to defend an already excepted minority. And if you think i'm a racist for talking lengthy on this subject maybe you should consider that I'm trying to point out something that needs to be seen, and its name is propaganda
How exactly do you determine how much diversity is "too much"? The problem is thinking that there's a maximum level of diversity that has already been reached and that people who demand or implement anything more than that "acceptable" level are forcing the issue even though you yourself acknowledge that discrimination still happens anyway (before saying that people are welcomed regardless of race in the following sentence, so what is the truth?)
gandalf26
02-13-18, 10:16 AM
I couldnt agree more, ash. I dont know why on earth some people think another person's or couple's choices concerning their reproductive systems is any of their business.
I don't think ash was ever talking about anyone in particular, and I don't understand why people are taking such offence at something which is factually true. Western white people are having less children than before, we are delaying childbirth for a variety of reasons, many young women now choose career over children. In the UK 1/3 births are now non white British.
So why are some folk taking such offense and going on about their own personal situation?
Yeah, you can speak in aggregate about things without it being a condemnation of any specific person. In fact, that's exactly what's happening in the discussion about race and diversity, as well.
I don't think ash was ever talking about anyone in particular, and I don't understand why people are taking such offence at something which is factually true. Western white people are having less children than before, we are delaying childbirth for a variety of reasons, many young women now choose career over children. In the UK 1/3 births are now non white British.
So why are some folk taking such offense and going on about their own personal situation?
I didnt say anything in my reply to Ash about being offended not did I fo on about my own personal situation. :shrug:
gandalf26
02-13-18, 11:26 AM
I didnt say anything in my reply to Ash about being offended not did I fo on about my own personal situation. :shrug:
That's debatable. Not you but others have clearly taken personal offense.
That's debatable. Not you but others have clearly taken personal offense.
So there's nothing debatable.
good, cause i aint wasting breath explaining, for the MILLIONTH TIME, to some random a-hole why i don't have kids yet. and i really couldn't care less if white people are a dying breed. good. we're awful anyway.
Judging from the 8 positive reps that this post has got , I guess bunker wise's crusade against ethnic diversity in Hollywood is a lost cause.....
If many white people themselves ( I am assuming that the ones giving positive reps are white ) are approving of a post that says that it is good that white people are a dying breed and says that whites are an awful people , then all hope is lost of his crusade against forced diversity ever succeeding ..
Miss Vicky
02-13-18, 11:53 AM
( I am assuming that the ones giving positive reps are white ) are approving of a post that says that it is good that white people are a dying breed and says that whites are an awful people
Why are you assuming that and how are you defining "white"?
Why are you assuming that and how are you defining "white"?
I think I am right in that assumption.
I think I am right in that assumption.
Culture does not equal "race". And saying we need to breed to save the color of ones skin is laughable and completely meaningless biologically. Melanin prominence and absence have been fluctuating countlessly for the past half million years or so depending on the environment and the whims of human interaction. Why are we treating white Europeans as if they are a separate species endangered by this brown and black species? We are all the same. Race, biologically, is an illusion.
Miss Vicky
02-13-18, 12:15 PM
I think I am right in that assumption.
And that means what, exactly? Also why are you avoiding the question about defining "white"?
Everything being said about race right now is certainly true, but I'm a little curious why "white people are awful" didn't trigger it, but "white people probably repped that post" did.
And that means what, exactly? Also why are you avoiding the question about defining "white"?
I mean Caucasian.
Miss Vicky
02-13-18, 12:22 PM
I mean Caucasian.
And you assume it's only "Caucasian" people who repped ash's post, why? Please stop avoiding questions.
I repped her post. I'm not white. Well, not totally white. Like a lot of people, I'm not totally anything in regards to race. Which is why I asked you to define "white."
And you assume it's only "Caucasian" people who repped ash's post, why? Please stop avoiding questions.
I repped her post. I'm not white. Well, not totally white. Like a lot of people, I'm not totally anything in regards to race. Which is why I asked you to define "white."
My guess is that only white people would dare to approve of a post that calls whites awful . Others positive reppng it would be racism.
matt72582
02-13-18, 12:31 PM
Ashdoc, instead of worrying about pigment, worry about character.
Miss Vicky
02-13-18, 12:32 PM
My guess is that only white people would dare to approve of a post that calls whites awful . Others positive reppng it would be racism.
Or maybe others positive repping it are also tired of people telling them they ought to have children. Which would be why I repped it.
cat_sidhe
02-13-18, 12:40 PM
Or maybe others positive repping it are also tired of people telling them they ought to have children. Which would be why I repped it.
Or they found humour in the comment.
Miss Vicky
02-13-18, 12:45 PM
Or they found humour in the comment.
That, too.
Ashdoc, instead of worrying about pigment, worry about character.
I am not worried. Why should I be ? I am Asian, not white . It is bunker wise who is worried really . I was advising him to maintain population of whites instead of complaining about forced diversity of other ethnicities. In democracy numbers matter and his concerns would become less if whites are in some numbers . If they dwindle in numbers then the ethnic diversity in Hollywood will increase not decrease.
Or they found humour in the comment.
It's a foreigner! Russian BOT RUSSIAN BOT...the site has been compromised evacuate.
j/k
ash_is_the_gal
02-13-18, 01:47 PM
anybody for a black pope ? only theists allowed to discuss :p
ok
and you're not white and you're not a woman, so stop dictating to me and others like me what i should do/shouldn't do with my body, stop assuming why i'm not and i won't discuss
^this^
nonsense
ash_is_the_gal
02-13-18, 01:52 PM
I don't think ash was ever talking about anyone in particular, and I don't understand why people are taking such offence at something which is factually true.
it might have been the 'white women not having kids just wanna party and lay on the beach all day' bit
addendum: i say white women, not white people, because women always get way more flack for being childless than men do.
Citizen Rules
02-13-18, 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by ash_is_the_gal (https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1866739#post1866739)
good, cause i aint wasting breath explaining, for the MILLIONTH TIME, to some random a-hole why i don't have kids yet. and i really couldn't care less if white people are a dying breed. good. we're awful anyway.
I like Ashdoc:), but I think his idea that whites need to start out breeding other races is bonkers:eek:
"we're awful anyway"...Speak for yourself, I'm white and I'm one hecka of a nice guy:p
ok
and you're not white and you're not a woman, so stop dictating to me and others like me what i should do/shouldn't do with my body, stop assuming why i'm not and i won't discuss
^this^
nonsense
I am not dictating . I am just opining.
I like Ashdoc:), but I think his idea that whites need to start out breeding other races is bonkers:eek:
"we're awful anyway"...Speak for yourself, I'm white and I'm one hecka of a nice guy:p
Outbreeding is out of question buddy. I am not asking for it . I am just asking worried people to match the birth rate of others instead of complaining here , not outmatching their birth rate .
Citizen Rules
02-13-18, 02:43 PM
Outbreeding is out of question buddy. I am not asking for it . I am just asking worried people to match the birth rate of others instead of complaining here , not outmatching their birth rate . Sorry Ashdoc, as much as I like you, I'm not having a baby for you:p
ash_is_the_gal
02-13-18, 03:03 PM
I am not dictating . I am just opining.
well you need not opine either ;)
Outbreeding is out of question buddy. I am not asking for it . I am just asking worried people to match the birth rate of others instead of complaining here , not outmatching their birth rate .
Oh poppycock. A couple of women on a movie forum are going to cave in to the demands made by a single male and make a difference to the percentages about the colour of different birth rates and...and...their religion which is where you want to go. Pull the other leg and it plays jingle bells.
Bunker Wise
02-13-18, 08:04 PM
I am not worried. Why should I be ? I am Asian, not white . It is bunker wise who is worried really . I was advising him to maintain population of whites instead of complaining about forced diversity of other ethnicities. In democracy numbers matter and his concerns would become less if whites are in some numbers . If they dwindle in numbers then the ethnic diversity in Hollywood will increase not decrease.
Anyone correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's Chinese women who are only allowed to have two children maximum. I don't think anyone needs to increase their numbers rather I would prefer if everyone follows The two kids maximum rule. In fact what ever the statistics are on how many people die every year should be equalised on the amount of kids being born but that's too idealistic.
What would be better is the two kids maximum rule, The world is becoming dangerously over populated as it is. The way I see it when you go to the zoo you're only see about seven lions in an enclosure any more than that will be unhealthy for the Lions. Just think about if World War I World War II Vietnam Pakistan and all wars never happened if the bubonic plague never happened too. The world would be so over populated that there would be no room for countrysides. But if we don't do the two kids rule now one day it will be too late and war or random selection might be are only options.
Or maybe others positive repping it are also tired of people telling them they ought to have children. Which would be why I repped it.
I repped it and it had nothing to do with the 'awful' comment. I am also not totally "Skippy"
This could go 50/50 for best and worst thread of the year.
Miss Vicky
02-13-18, 10:29 PM
I am also not totally "Skippy"
:confused:
I don't know what that means.
:confused:
I don't know what that means.
I have PoC heritage. skippy is a slur word by minority groups for whities here. Doesnt bother me. I've been called worse than after a kangaroo movie star.
Captain Steel
02-13-18, 11:05 PM
This could go 50/50 for best and worst thread of the year.
Saunch - reps for the Jack Elam avatar!
I wonder how many people here know who he was.
MovieGal
02-13-18, 11:07 PM
Saunch - reps for the Jack Elam avatar!
I wonder how many people here know who he was.
He's an actor that did westerns!
Captain Steel
02-13-18, 11:11 PM
He's an actor that did westerns!
I just read (in his trivia section IMDB) that he had a larger role in High Noon which was mostly cut, and the credits were already done, so he got no credit for his short appearance in the film.
Oh poppycock. A couple of women on a movie forum are going to cave in to the demands made by a single male and make a difference to the percentages about the colour of different birth rates and...and...their religion which is where you want to go. Pull the other leg and it plays jingle bells.
I was talking originally to 0P ( bunker wise ) , not to any females . Since he was so bothered about forced diversity in Hollywood. I certainly did not expect that any females would take it personally.
I feel I have made my point now and am not going to argue more about it.
MovieGal
02-13-18, 11:16 PM
I just read (in his trivia section IMDB) that he had a larger role in High Noon which was mostly cut, and the credits were already done, so he got no credit for his short appearance in the film.
I just remember him from westerns.. didnt he play on a western tv show?
MovieGal
02-13-18, 11:17 PM
Yeah .. He was on Gunsmoke!
Captain Steel
02-13-18, 11:19 PM
I just remember him from westerns.. didnt he play on a western tv show?
Looks like he appeared on almost all of them! ;)
Captain Steel
02-13-18, 11:51 PM
In honor of the 2nd post on this thread, I'm viewing Spider-Man Homecoming (2017).
A small review may follow upon completion.
Halfway-thru, there's things I like and those I don't (some of which refer to this thread's topic and some of which are due to being a long time comic geek).
What I will say - however this movie turns out, it seems saved by the performance of Michael Keaton giving real life to an old (both in real terms and those of comics) villain - totally making up for the surrealist art-nuevo claptrap that was Birdman (2014)! ;)
mattiasflgrtll6
02-14-18, 12:38 AM
Birdman is underrated.
Guaporense
02-14-18, 03:55 AM
This is largely a stereotype of course. You only assume all blacks talk the same because when you talk with blacks that dont sound that way on the phone you assume they are white. Believe me theres LOTS of blacks that dont sound ebonic in the least... And in America, they tend to pat them on the head and call them "well spoken" which is a euphemism for "he actually sounds intelligent!" This has faded some with the newest generation but I certainly saw this a lot growing up.
I never said that all blacks talk the same. But it's true that there exists a typical black English dialect:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_Vernacular_English
Of course there are lots of American blacks who don't speak that variety of English (such as the Somalians in Minnesota for instance). But it's interesting that it shows how strong are the cultural ties inside the black community in the US. Even in Canada this dialect is often used by blacks.
My overall point was just to explain that while it's true races don't exist in a biological sense ethnic groups exist in a social sense. European Americans, African Americans and Asian Americans as well as Hispanics and perhaps Jews exist as separate ethnic groups inside the US. This situation is different from many other countries which are traditionally composed of only one ethnic group with some small populations of foreigners. For instance, Japan, or Germany. Brazil is multi ethnic but it's ethnic groups have long fused together and so we lack a strong sense of ethnicity, with the possible exception of Japanese Brazilians who tend to be very proud of their heritage, the rest of the population just identifies themselves as Brazilians and they don't think in terms of ethnic groups.
Of course there are lots of American blacks who don't speak that variety of English (such as the Somalians in Minnesota for instance).
Or like hundreds of thousands of NORMAL BLACK AMERICANS! Which is entirely my point.
But it's interesting that it shows how strong are the cultural ties inside the black community in the US. Even in Canada this dialect is often used by blacks.
I know a couple of black Canadians (like 2 of all 26 of them :p) and they all sound like CANADIANS. They even say "aboot" and "eh" and all the stereotypical stuff and they apologize constantly (soory!) like any other red blooded Canadian does. Further, I have LOTS of black friends and relatives in the south and if you closed your eyes and listened to them you would swear they were just some run of the mill good ol boy from Carolina. Yes shockingly its possible for black people to have SOUTHERN accents because, you know, they live in the SOUTH... They sound nothing like inner city blacks from Chicago or New York (who by the way have Queens accents if they come from Queens or Bronx accents if they come from the Bronx!)
ethnic groups exist in a social sense
This is certainly true but i dont think citing how people SOUND is necessary (or accurate) in demonstrating this point.
European Americans, African Americans and Asian Americans as well as Hispanics and perhaps Jews exist as separate ethnic groups inside the US.
While theres some truth to this I find that more and more of us are intermarrying and intermixing. The thing is when theres been mixing in the past its always resulted in the next generation being forced to identify with one group or the other and not being accepted for the mix or ethnicities they are (and that we all are technically). I think thats changing with this current generation. But we'll see...
Brazil is multi ethnic but it's ethnic groups have long fused together and so we lack a strong sense of ethnicity, with the possible exception of Japanese Brazilians who tend to be very proud of their heritage, the rest of the population just identifies themselves as Brazilians and they don't think in terms of ethnic groups.
From the outside Brazil still looks like a place that has lots of racial issues. Arent darker skinned Brazilians looked down on there by lighter skinned Brazilians and make up the most significant percentage of the extreme poor and the inhabitants of the favelas? Thats the impression we get from the media reports.
Doramius
02-15-18, 08:48 PM
I think there is forced diversity in Hollywood. However, I don't think it's entirely Hollywood's fault. AND, I don't think it's as bad as people think.
In the 80's there were TONS of films that came out that had few or no minorities in it. Many released movies inadvertently created stereotypes, when they weren't trying to stereotype. Media and public called foul, and the studios got slapped pretty hard with this. Better Off Dead has no black people in it, and has 2 Chinese brothers who drag race in a foreign car. The spoof at the time was that the type of foreign car was not what would be drag racing on the street. The stereotype didn't exist....until after the movie, and the studio was called out for this, and the fact that they didn't cast any black actors. Over the years it has slowly lessened.
Now this isn't entirely a bad thing. It did allow the writers, casting directors, and other departments to expand their views of lead actors. An old wizard doesn't have to be a man, or an evil witch doesn't have to be a woman. It can provide more creativity.
What bothers me is when a studio takes a story and uses the cast in a re-imagining, and people call it whitewashing. I have no issue with changing some of the cast around in Spider-Man. It was done well. I do feel that they departed the original feel of Spider-Man's origins, but they did it in a way that modernized it. I can't say I fully agree with all of their choices, but a few were actually believable. Ghost in the Shell, was accused of whitewashing, but the story was blended well for the fit of the character's storyline. I had other issues with the movie, but whitewashing was definitely not one of them. Foreign countries make American and European movies their own all the time. Many are blatant rip-offs. Bollywood is notorious for this. I can't remember the foreign title, (since it is in a foreign language I don't understand, and it's not a direct translation of the title) but there is an Indian movie that totally ripped off the story of Tom Sawyer. Injun Joe was some crazed China-man, and Huck was a Buddhist instead of Hindu which is why he was considered an outcast of his community.
The biggest reason why Hollywood is doing this is to meet the whining of the public and media. Maybe they are just trying to placate the masses. If they get the damn story right or believable, then I don't care. If it bombs, people are going to complain that it was because of the craptastic casting. If it becomes a smash hit, people will praise it for the re-imagining. Just enjoy it or dislike it on your own. It's not like you can trust many critics to give a fair review, anyway.
I enjoy any good movie,a good movie is a good movie
Ive seen plenty of genres of movies/tv shows
I've seen movies/shows
From all eras from the 1930s - 2017 I've seen plenty of good actors/actresses from all types of ethnicities if u can act then you can act if you can sing then you can sing, if you stink at something then you stink.. ethnicity generally has nothing to do with these things a good actor is a good actor
A good dancer is a good dancer money is money
Skill is skill beauty is beauty ugliness is ugliness
Though the media in the U.S. (tv,radio, commercials,movies,tv shows,store ads, newspapers etc) generally feature *white people
(Caucasian, European , Hispanic,Latino and sometimes black) it's rare to see middle eastern,Asian and native Americans "advertised" in these things the tv channels here are MOSTLY in English..I'd say about 80% Spanish is probably 12% and the rest is a mix of Vietnamese,Chinese,Korean,and Armenian etc so *white people have control over pretty much everything media related..
This is america..English is probably the biggest language spoken here..Spanish is probably number 2 I think..so I don't know why things would ever change here..no one watches these 8% channels except older people who know these languages.young people here watch English programming I've never heard a young person say theyre excited about a foreign tv show.. no one talks about them at school
So most non white people end up "whitewashed ".
Ive seen plenty of "white washed" people..they're really sad..I never befriended them..they embarrass themselves,their family,their hertiage/ancestors etc
They're totally fake
I've seen them get called out..lol it's funny
" Hey aren't you "blank"
Blank is their ethnicity
"Don't you know/speak "blank" ? And they totally can't/ don't say anything. It's awkward to see that..it's very uncomfortable for them
They are full of hate / self hate alot of times.. it's really sad
My neighbor is Asian.. Vietnamese..he's like 27
And about the 10 years I've known him IVE NEVER HEARD him say a word in Vietnamese..why..who knows..his mom and dad talk to him in Vietnamese ALL the time,yet he only replies in English.. ??
The dude pretends like he doesn't know Vietnamese..it's pretty dumb to watch
It's embarrassing to hear that an Asian newsporter(Chinese) had "surgery" to "make herself look less Asian" on her eyes
44264
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2418936/Julie-Chen-secret-eye-surgery-age-25-told-looked-Asian-TV-anchor.html
But then I also heard that there is a "white" guy who "loves/loved" Asian culture so much he had a surgery to " look Asian"
So dilemma dilemma
44265
It's embarrassing to hear that an Asian newsporter(Chinese) had "surgery" to "make herself look less Asian" on her eyes
44264
]
Any wonder when they are faced daily with such bigoted attitudes that wont allow them to assimilate, so they buy up all your important land plots and primary producers and priceless antiquities and rights to money making mooooovies instead and say a big, hearty eff you, smile resentfully, and walk away to sing all the way to their accountant. The last laugh is on people just like you. Enjoy that. Others commit suicide, I'm sure many just like yourself will be happy to find out. And then others shoot up schools or bomb hospitals, or run away to war, mate! enjoy that. I find it very sad. What are your feels telling you?
Please check your spelling/grammar for a better reply... I half understood what u said..
People like me..? I HAVE seen sucicidal people..on tv/the news and IN PERSON..
People commit suicide/homicide for many reasons..well just one really if you think about it..
so..what are you trying to say..?
Please check your spelling/grammar for a better reply... I half understood what u said..
People like me..? I HAVE seen sucicidal people..on tv/the news and IN PERSON..
People commit suicide/homicide for many reasons..well just one really if you think about it..
so..what are you trying to say..?
I'm surprised people even know what spelling/ and or grammar is these days.Take three gold stars to put on your forehead just after you put down your guns. If I've asked you once I've asked you a hundred times.. Well done and jolly good, young fella. You even know goodly vocabulary.
i thought you were done with me *curtsies
Tallyh. Aim orff to do things and smell the coffee:up:
Captain Steel
05-06-18, 08:28 PM
But then I also heard that there is a "white" guy who "loves/loved" Asian culture so much he had a surgery to " look Asian"
So dilemma dilemma
44265
The photo at the bottom looks like make-up from a horror movie (or one of those disturbing "creepy-pasta" YouTube videos)!
I forgot to post the link
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5447600
He's Brazilian
There are some REALLY sick people out there..
Captain Steel
05-06-18, 09:49 PM
I forgot to post the link
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5447600
He's Brazilian
There are some REALLY sick people out there..
It just amazes me when I realize there are people who have money to spend on this sort of thing (and there are millions of them because we see this egocentric type of self indulgence all the time). It just makes me wonder; knowing all the hungry, poor or just suffering people in the world, what someone (or many someones) with integrity could do with that same money.
Imagine if, instead of spending money on some form of self-promoting or indulgent plastic surgery, the same money was given to someone with a severe facial deformity (like say a cleft pallet) so they could have a surgery that would enable them to speak, eat and live a more normal life, but that they never otherwise could afford?
Hopefully some of you young folks out there will think about this the next time you go to get Botox, lip fillers, breast enlargements, another tattoo or a ridiculous bull-ring through your nose! ;)
...
Lol wow pretty much word for word what I say/think..
Some people have too much money they don't even know what to do with it..ALL they probably have is money so.. they probably wipe their 8()t with it.. yes a smart,Good,decent person will put money to good use
Yes it's true what you said about people with deformities..I have high respect for people who VOLUNTEER their time/money to fix kids with cleft lips
Everyone has the RIGHT to spend their money ANY WAY they want no argument there but to spend tons of money on silly things REALLY says alot about you.. "yes well I visited new Zealand last year, I took a 7 day cruise with my wife and bought her a $50,000 USD necklace for our anniversary,and my 19 year old son who's home from college had a very special birthday..I got him the $500,000 USD Lamborghini he wanted..". REALLY.? wow..! You must totally have the PERFECT life..your wife MUST truly love you..your son must really be a true gentleman..hes probably hard working,patient,well mannered and respectful of women.. these kind of people tend to compensate/overcompensate it's funny "I need to buy these $5,000 pair of shoes and this $2,500 Gucci handbag..so people will like me" " if I buy them everyone will look at me..they make me look VERY confident, successful,totally happy with a very exciting life"
when I see these kind of people and they approach me
And talk to me and act/talk/behave etc like this I say nothing...listen to them and wait til they're
Finished and wait til they expect my response and say
"Dude..you have HPD.." and walk away...and they have a very confused look on their face..and say " WHAT..?" or
"What you do mean..?!" "HUH..?!" "..HPD..??"
LoL it's funny to watch..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder
I hate tattoos/piercings..just ink.. I laugh when I see people covered in them..I've heard of people literally covered by tattoos on their entire body..NOT SEXY for me AT ALL..if it's one or two in good taste then wutever..
But alot of tattoos are ugly..alot of people regret getting them.they end up with an ugly tattoo and have to pay to remove it, which I hear is expensive and painful. Google ugly tattoo pictures there are some really ugly/stupid ones
It's funny to see people with an old boy/girlfriends
Name who aren't together anymore I hate piercings too..not sexy for me as well
These two things just cover up your skin..which is sexy
Why would you cover up sexy..? I want to see skin..
That's what naked is right...? Seeing someone completely naked is sexy, beautiful,cute,attractive,natural,not dirty, artistic etc. I've never heard someone say "I can't wait to see "carrie" take her shirt off so I can see ink, piercings" I thought boys/men
Fantasied about women's body parts not ink...ink..?
What's so sexy about ink?
I met an old skinhead white guy who had a good amount of arm tats..he walked around pretty" tough looking ",very straight.. I found out he was terrified of " bugs" bugs..? I heard him say "I'm a woman when it comes to bugs.." to another guy after he saw a cockroach by a dumpster near where they were smoking..(he walked away from the cockroach)
I saw a " tough looking" gangster/cholo latino man
Post something like " I'm scared because I'm having leg surgery soon..someone cheer me up or something.."
On a local social media app about 4 years ago,he looked "tough" with a serious ripped body covered with upper body tats and had a serious ganster look/face/attitude on his profile pic...
I replied " proof that having tattoos doesn't make you a "badass" "
He didn't reply...he erased his post a few mins after..
LoL
I speak my mind when asked
I DONT walk up to someone and talk to them.. they generally approach me..
I heard of a " man " who had a "sex change" into a transwoman lived as a transwoman for a few years..regretted it and had a " sex change" to go back to a " man" ... I don't know how that works... surgically or legally..
People can regret everything
EVERYTHING..
I have nothing against LGTS OR TVs for the record..they are pretty chill most of the time.. or people with tats or piercings... Just speaking my preferences and writing my observations
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2921528/The-man-s-TWO-sex-changes-Incredible-story-Walt-Laura-REVERSED-operation-believes-surgeons-quick-operate.html
It just amazes me when I realize there are people who have money to spend on this sort of thing (and there are millions of them because we see this egocentric type of self indulgence all the time). It just makes me wonder; knowing all the hungry, poor or just suffering people in the world, what someone (or many someones) with integrity could do with that same money.
Imagine if, instead of spending money on some form of self-promoting or indulgent plastic surgery, the same money was given to someone with a severe facial deformity (like say a cleft pallet) so they could have a surgery that would enable them to speak, eat and live a more normal life, but that they never otherwise could afford?
Hopefully some of you young folks out there will think about this the next time you go to get Botox, lip fillers, breast enlargements, another tattoo or a ridiculous bull-ring through your nose! ;)
How do you know the kid paid for it?.Might have been his sugar daddy who had taken the kid off the street and an obscene amount ofmoney.. And hiring a team of doctors for that kid might mean that team of doctrs can perform FREE surgeries for children in need. How much moneyt hat you've spent on storing your hoarding treasures could have gone to the less fortunate? Paints a different picture that way, doesnt it.
For me,well I'd rather have a roll of bubble wrap toplay pop the bubble with the dogs than enable a kid to change her face but that's just me.
Captain Steel
05-07-18, 01:06 PM
How do you know the kid paid for it?.Might have been his sugar daddy who had taken the kid off the street and an obscene amount ofmoney.. And hiring a team of doctors for that kid might mean that team of doctrs can perform FREE surgeries for children in need. How much moneyt hat you've spent on storing your hoarding treasures could have gone to the less fortunate? Paints a different picture that way, doesnt it.
For me,well I'd rather have a roll of bubble wrap toplay pop the bubble with the dogs than enable a kid to change her face but that's just me.
Well, I don't know that he paid for it, but it does appear to be an indulgent and unnecessary surgery since the guy looked fine and did not have a deformity. I don't know of any doctors who perform vanity surgeries for free or as a public service (only groups like Doctors Without Borders who provide medical aid where it's needed). So, the point remains - whoever spent the money could have spent it on someone who needed plastic surgery (like the kids on Smile Train).
Well, I don't know that he paid for it, but it does appear to be an indulgent and unnecessary surgery since the guy looked fine and did not have a deformity. I don't know of any doctors who perform vanity surgeries for free or as a public service (only groups like Doctors Without Borders who provide medical aid where it's needed). So, the point remains - whoever spent the money could have spent it on someone who needed plastic surgery (like the kids on Smile Train).
So blame the greed of the person who took the money. Wouldnt that make more sense? None of us would know the wormtongue words being poured in that person's ears his entire life.
Captain Steel
05-07-18, 06:51 PM
So blame the greed of the person who took the money. Wouldnt that make more sense? None of us would know the wormtongue words being poured in that person's ears his entire life.
Are you suggesting Doctors who perform vanity surgeries for money should not do so?
I would agree that some Doctors need to be more discriminating in their cosmetic surgery cases - as sometimes people are suffering from some form of bio-dysmorphism (a mental disorder where they become irrationally obsessed with their looks or develop a hatred for various features or body parts) as opposed to having a problem that needs to be physically corrected.
All I'm saying about the case in question is: there's a lot better things to spend one's money on than plastic surgery to look like A.) a race which they are not and B.) different when there was absolutely nothing wrong with their face (functionally or aesthetically) to begin with.
Are you suggesting Doctors who perform vanity surgeries for money should not do so?
I would agree that some Doctors need to be more discriminating in their cosmetic surgery cases - as sometimes people are suffering from some form of bio-dysmorphism (a mental disorder where they become irrationally obsessed with their looks or develop a hatred for various features or body parts) as opposed to having a problem that needs to be physically corrected.
All I'm saying about the case in question is: there's a lot better things to spend one's money on than plastic surgery to look like A.) a race which they are not and B.) different when there was absolutely nothing wrong with their face (functionally or aesthetically) to begin with.
i havent suggested anything other than you take your angst out on those who do so. You know this, you just love to twist things for an argy bargy. I'm not interested in wasting energy on one. Infact, I leave you here. Enjoy this beautiful day.
Captain Steel
05-07-18, 07:38 PM
i havent suggested anything other than you take your angst out on those who do so. You know this, you just love to twist things for an argy bargy. I'm not interested in wasting energy on one. Infact, I leave you here. Enjoy this beautiful day.
Okay. I'm not even sure what your argument is. Take my angst out on "those who do so"?
Those who do what?
Are you basically saying you don't think certain people should have an opinion on an issue that someone else posted about? That's what it sounds like you're saying. But I'll take your advice and enjoy the day!
Omnizoa
05-07-18, 09:39 PM
So blame the greed of the person who took the money.
That would imply the surgeon could afford to be choosy, or should be obligated to jettison their business because they're not doing the most optimal job for society (which is most jobs).
None of us would know the wormtongue words being poured in that person's ears his entire life.
You could say the same of any thief, serial killer, or rapist. Does that absolve them of blame?
i havent suggested anything other than you take your angst out on those who do so.Where has Captain Steel taken his "angst" out on anybody? There's no evidence in this thread he's done any such thing. You're inferring an emotional tenor which more than likely doesn't exist.
you just love to twist things for an argy bargy.He was expressing an opinion on the practical expenditure of resources on frivolous surgeries. There's nothing to twist.
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