Seatbelt Laws

[Henry The Kid]

This excerpt was taken from http://www.lp.org/lpnews/0308/libsolutions.html




Over the Memorial Day weekend (May 24-26, 2003), one of the largest law enforcement efforts in American history took place: In 29 states, 11,300 law enforcement agencies set up 18,000 random roadblocks.

What kind of dangerous criminals were they looking for? Terrorists? Child molesters? Serial killers?

Nope. People who weren't wearing seatbelts.

It was the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's "Click It or Ticket" project. Over the weekend, police issued 425,000 citations for seatbelt violations.

No longer just a matter of personal choice, not wearing a seatbelt is now against the law in 49 states. (Only New Hampshire is the exception.) In 18 states, you can be pulled over for not buckling up; in another 31 states, it's a "secondary" offense, and you can only be ticketed if you're pulled over for another infraction.

The problem with such laws, according to the Independence Institute (February 10, 1999), is that "no jurisdiction that has passed a seatbelt law has shown evidence of a reduction in road accident deaths" -- perhaps, in part, because belted drivers feel safer, and so they drive more recklessly.

Even worse, "making seat belt laws a primary offense gives unscrupulous police officers a pretext to pull over minorities, young people, people with pro-gun bumperstickers, or any other type of person the police officer may not like," noted the Independence Institute. "[It's] an invitation to selective enforcement and abuse."

Wearing seatbelts is good sense. But it should be your decision -- not the business of 11,300 law enforcement agencies.

[Naisy]

Its things like that, that make you scared.

I mean can you imagine the staff meeting that morning

Chief "all right guys we are setting up a sh!tload of road blocks today, so we better get started"

Officer "What are we looking for boss? drugs? weapons"

Chief "no i thought today we would focus on something more important, more dangerous....seatbelts"

Hello people, yes the law is the law, sure if your caught at a random as far as im concerned you can be charged, but wasting ALOT of valuble resources focused on a petty crime, is just folly ladies and gentlemen, FOLLY!

[Steve]

I think seatbelt laws are necessary, if only for the sake of children. If a parent wants to endanger his/her own life, that's fine by me. But what if they're not buckling up their kids? Sure, you can charge the parents as criminals if the child dies or is injured, but the problem is that the kid was put in danger in the first place. And if there's no constitutional way to check and make sure that everyone is wearing their seatbelt at all times, there's nothing we can do.

I'm a huge opponent of the police doing anything randomly and without pretext, so I honestly couldn't tell you how to enforce this law. If anyone knows, you should post. I'm clueless.

[Naisy]

I think start with the big crimes and then spread the resources evenly around the rest as best as possible.

[Steve]

What constitutes a 'big crime?'

I think deliberately putting a kid's life in danger is pretty big. But that's just me. :rolleyes:

[Henry The Kid]

I think seatbelt laws are necessary, if only for the sake of children. If a parent wants to endanger his/her own life, that's fine by me. But what if they're not buckling up their kids? Sure, you can charge the parents as criminals if the child dies or is injured, but the problem is that the kid was put in danger in the first place. And if there's no constitutional way to check and make sure that everyone is wearing their seatbelt at all times, there's nothing we can do.

I'm a huge opponent of the police doing anything randomly and without pretext, so I honestly couldn't tell you how to enforce this law. If anyone knows, you should post. I'm clueless.


I guess I could accept a law for all kids under a designated age should be required to wear one. I won't like it, but the lack of common sense among a lot of parents necesitates it. I don't see a reason for full-blown adults to be pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt.

[Henry The Kid]

I guess I could accept a law for all kids under a designated age should be required to wear one. I won't like it, but the lack of common sense among a lot of parents necesitates it. I don't see a reason for full-blown adults to be pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt.


Furthermore, it could be considered manslaughter. I don't see this as a reason to make seat belt laws mandatory.

[Beale the Rippe]

(Off topic a little)

My cousin died because he didn't wear a seatbelt.

Please wear your seatbelts. You can never be too safe.

I'd hate to find out we're short a MoFo because they weren't wearing a seatbelt.

[Naisy]

Are you guys saying seatbelts arent mandatory? :confused: thats insane surely i misunderstood

[Caitlyn]

Operation ABC Mobilization (America Buckles Up Children) was launched last year by the Transportation Department in an effort to increase the use of seat belts among younger drivers and children. What the article Henry posted failed to clarify is that Operation ABC was part of an on-going operation conducted on Memorial Day for years in various states by law enforcement to target drunk drivers and unlicensed drivers…not just drivers violating seat belt laws.

I don’t have all the stats here right now but the reason behind the drive for ABC was that in 2001, over 8,000 young drivers between the ages of 15 and 20 were killed in car crashes… and thousands more were injured. Over half of those killed or injured were not buckled up.


Originally posted by Henry the Kid

I guess I could accept a law for all kids under a designated age should be required to wear one. I won't like it, but the lack of common sense among a lot of parents necesitates it.

Have you ever witnessed a child being catapulted over the backseat through a windshield as the result of a collision at 30 miles an hour… if not, believe me, it is not a pretty sight…




Originally posted by Beale the Rippe

(Off topic a little)

My cousin died because he didn't wear a seatbelt.

Please wear your seatbelts. You can never be too safe.

I'd hate to find out we're short a MoFo because they weren't wearing a seatbelt.

Not off topic at all... I am very very sorry about you cousin…



Originally posted by Naisy

Are you guys saying seatbelts arent mandatory? :confused: thats insane surely i misunderstood


Yes, seat belts are mandatory... sadly a lot of people think they don’t need them which is fine with me if they’re old enough to play Russian roulette… they don’t have the right to play it with their kids though…


Steve... :up:

[Beale the Rippe]

Not off topic at all... I am very very sorry about you cousin… Thanks. (Smiles at the sweetness of Caitlyn yet maintains a somber tone in memory of his close cousin)

[Henry The Kid]

Have you ever witnessed a child being catapulted over the backseat through a windshield as the result of a collision at 30 miles an hour… if not, believe me, it is not a pretty sight…







What does this have to do with my initial argument? Furthermore, my offering of saying that they could be required of kids under a certain age? I compromised a solution, so I don't see why this was even necesary, other than to shock me or something.

[Caitlyn]

What does this have to do with my initial argument? Furthermore, my offering of saying that they could be required of kids under a certain age? I compromised a solution, so I don't see why this was even necesary, other than to shock me or something.


Did you not state that you could accept a law for children but that you would not like it… or did I misunderstand your meaning… if not, I was merely trying to point out that if you were to witness something like that, your opinion might change… I wasn’t going for shock value…

[Beale the Rippe]

What does this have to do with my initial argument? Furthermore, my offering of saying that they could be required of kids under a certain age? I compromised a solution, so I don't see why this was even necesary, other than to shock me or something.

It has everything to do with your initial arguement.

What happens to a baby is certainly relevant to why it should be mandatory. And it should be mandatory.

Why should that be considered "shock value"? Horrible things happen when people get into accidents without seatbelts Henry. It should bother you. It should bother you more that you'd prefer leaving safety optional.

Open your eyes Henry. You are talking about risking peoples lives for the sake of personal freedom.

[Henry The Kid]

It has everything to do with your initial arguement.

What happens to a baby is certainly relevant to why it should be mandatory. And it should be mandatory.

Why should that be considered "shock value"? Horrible things happen when people get into accidents without seatbelts Henry. It should bother you. It should bother you more that you'd prefer leaving safety optional.

Open your eyes Henry. You are talking about risking peoples lives for the sake of personal freedom.

I'm talking about giving people the most personal liberty possible. It was a long time ago that I decided I can not be the type of person who sacrifices liberty for safety. I ask no one to share my views, but to simply look at it from a different perspective.


I am talking about risking people's lives, but in all honesty, it's pretty stupid not to wear a safety belt. But if you don't wish to wear one, that should be your choice.

My personal freedom, and the personal freedom of others is that important to me. If I had to go die to defend it tommorow, I would. I doubt the removal of the law will turn us all into chaos where everone in the world stops wearing seat belts and usher in the apocalypse.

I, quite clearly, am not a reactionary. I know what I am. I am a cynical and arrogant person. But I am not selfish nor ignorant.

[Henry The Kid]

Did you not state that you could accept a law for children but that you would not like it… or did I misunderstand your meaning… if not, I was merely trying to point out that if you were to witness something like that, your opinion might change… I wasn’t going for shock value…

Rereading my post reveals I worded it piss-poorly. I'm sorry for reacting to your post the way I did. Sorry about that one.

[Piddzilla]

Seat belts save lives. Wear it and stop your whining.

[Beale the Rippe]

Right on Pidd! :cool:

Alright Henry:

I too think that people should be free to choose, but I believe that this right should end where safety is involved and when it infringes upon someone else's rights. Why should it be up to a person if they are going to wear a seatbelt?

When John Doe wears a seatbelt, he isn't doing it just for himself. He is doing it for his family who depend on him to pay the bills. He is doing it for his parents who invested a large portion of their lives to raise him. Etc. It isn't fair to them.

The fact is that if we allow people to choose on seatbelts, (and thus allow them to get into accidents without seatbelts), the effects of the accident aren't limited to the person who makes the choice.

I guess what I'm trying to say is lets try for the most liberty possible whithout the risking of someone's life (which is really what this boils down to)

Is that reasonable? :D

[r3port3r66]

Seatbelts do save lives. Just like a helmet saves a child from head trauma if he should fall off a bycycle. But, what concerns me about seatbelts is that cops can now pull you over if they notice you're not wearing one, and while they're at your window asking, "Do you know why I pulled you over?', they scan your vehicle for "probable cause". That means, anything they deem suspicious in your car could be used against you. Ok that might make sense, but police officers are there to keep the peace, not try and find things on which to arrest you. Let's get real here, police officals are notorious for racial profiling, beating up minorites and beating the charges in court. It is the epidomy of the "Boys Club". But what the average citizen doesn't realize is that he does have rights. You have the right to say no when asked if your car can be searched. But it's assumed that if you say no, you have something to hide. Not true! It is your right to say no, guilty or not. But the police don't like to hear the word no, and they will surely "find" something in which to incriminate you. This has happened to me. I was pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt. Fine. But the officer also spied an empty pot pipe in the center console (seriously, it wasn't mine!). He asked me to exit the vehicle, and requested a search. I said fine. I only said yes because I know that in CA, it is legal to have an empty pot pipe in you car. He searched the car, found nothing except some prescribed valium in my bag in the trunk. An hour later he wrote me a citation for having drug peraphenalia and sent me on my way. The case was later thrown out in court. Argue if you want, but trust me it happens all the time! I fear that seatbelt laws are just another way for cops to harrass innocent people, well, at least here in Southern CA.

A note must be added here: I respect the police department. They have helped me many of times. I'm glad they are here, and they risk their lives everyday. But, I happen to live in a part of the US that is very conservative, and I have seen the police--and heard stories--where the police have pulled black men over for driving a Lexus. I swear it's true!

A note to Cait': These are just my experiences. My experiences with the police have always been traumatic to me even though I have been innocent every time. It was just a waste of my time and tax payers money. And yes I do wear my seatbelt now!

[Henry The Kid]

Right on Pidd! :cool:

Alright Henry:

I too think that people should be free to choose, but I believe that this right should end where safety is involved and when it infringes upon someone else's rights. Why should it be up to a person if they are going to wear a seatbelt?

When John Doe wears a seatbelt, he isn't doing it just for himself. He is doing it for his family who depend on him to pay the bills. He is doing it for his parents who invested a large portion of their lives to raise him. Etc. It isn't fair to them.

The fact is that if we allow people to choose on seatbelts, (and thus allow them to get into accidents without seatbelts), the effects of the accident aren't limited to the person who makes the choice.

I guess what I'm trying to say is lets try for the most liberty possible whithout the risking of someone's life (which is really what this boils down to)

Is that reasonable? :D

It's reasonable, and I accept others feel that way. But I don't agree with it, nor will I ever.

[Henry The Kid]

Seat belts save lives. Wear it and stop your whining.


Christ.

I do wear my damn seatbelt. Every time I get in my car, I wear it. If the law was abolished, I would still wear my seat belt. You all have trivialized my reasons for thinking the way I do, in order to stereotype me better.

[Beale the Rippe]

It's reasonable, and I accept others feel that way. But I don't agree with it, nor will I ever.

I guess I'm not sure why you don't agree with it...but...Ok.

I guess I'll call it a night then....

[Sutter Kain]

I have mixed feelings on this subject on the one hand Seatbelts do save lives and wearing is just the smart think to do. However I agree with henry that the law should only be for Children don't get me wrong the paraents should wear them to but should only be a law for the children.

[Naisy]

I have mixed feelings on this subject on the one hand Seatbelts do save lives and wearing is just the smart think to do. However I agree with henry that the law should only be for Children don't get me wrong the paraents should wear them to but should only be a law for the children.

Why only children? Come on why should the law only exsist for children, I mean that’s like saying well children should have a law against committing murder but adults can. Laws do restrict free choice, that’s the whole idea of them. To restrict people from doing harm to others AND themselves. Take away laws and you have utter chaos, murders, drugs, everything, because they CAN not whether they should. There are laws against suicide, sure it’s a pointless law but its there to try and prevent people from harming themselves. So to say the law should only be for children is ridiculous an adult can get killed in a collision just as easily as a child. What your saying is stupid. Absolutely ludicrous, the law is there for a reason, its not a big deal, it takes less then a minute to put on and may prevent harm to yourself or even others who may be harmed by your body catapulting from the backseat. Geez what a big deal, pull and click in a socket. Oh the pain, the pain, the effort, I might save my life, oh it cant be worth putting this seat belt on. Im sorry but to say that seatbelt laws should change is just folly. Especially if it means getting rid of them for half the population. The law is not about taking away choice but rather trying to prevent harm, which we all agree on occasions seatbelts Do save lives.

[Naisy]

yeah thats right, when i have a rare long post, everyone runs for the hills, no one dares argue now, RRRROOOOOAAAAAARRRRR this is my mountain.

[Henry The Kid]

Why only children? Come on why should the law only exsist for children, I mean that’s like saying well children should have a law against committing murder but adults can. Laws do restrict free choice, that’s the whole idea of them. To restrict people from doing harm to others AND themselves. Take away laws and you have utter chaos, murders, drugs, everything, because they CAN not whether they should. There are laws against suicide, sure it’s a pointless law but its there to try and prevent people from harming themselves. So to say the law should only be for children is ridiculous an adult can get killed in a collision just as easily as a child. What your saying is stupid. Absolutely ludicrous, the law is there for a reason, its not a big deal, it takes less then a minute to put on and may prevent harm to yourself or even others who may be harmed by your body catapulting from the backseat. Geez what a big deal, pull and click in a socket. Oh the pain, the pain, the effort, I might save my life, oh it cant be worth putting this seat belt on. Im sorry but to say that seatbelt laws should change is just folly. Especially if it means getting rid of them for half the population. The law is not about taking away choice but rather trying to prevent harm, which we all agree on occasions seatbelts Do save lives.


*Bangs head against wall*


My point was missed with this thread. I'm sorry for trying.