President Trump

[cricket]

The U.S. of A.

Look, I love the US, I served in the army for 6 years, and I am glad I did. But it's like sick people like Trump and Kavanaugh, who disgrace our great country, just keep popping up, and it makes me sad, and angry. This isn't even a right/left sort of debate, it's just basic morality. Kavanaugh had three accusers. Where there's smoke there's fire. But whatever, hey, he's on "our" team, let's push him through. And yeah, the left would do the same thing. Trump. There's SO MUCH out there about how he's a criminal, a rapist, in with the russians...but hey, party over people, right? And again, the left would do the same thing. and this needs to STOP. This isn't the country I swore to defend, it's just...gross.

My god. This is exactly the kind of thinking that is sick and what is wrong with our country.

[Jase]

My god. This is exactly the kind of thinking that is sick and what is wrong with our country.

Why, though?

[cricket]

Why, though?

Guess, but I don't want to spend a lot of time in similar threads with the same lunacy.

[ynwtf]

Sick to acknowledge people on both sides put party first?

[cricket]

Seriously are you guys nuts?

[Yoda]

Gonna have to insist that people's replies in these controversial threads move the discussion along in some fashion, in addition to being civil. If you guys are just gonna volley disbelief, no reason to continue.

[cricket]

Sick to acknowledge people on both sides put party first?

So you're saying everything in that post is find and dandy, and the result of healthy thinking. Gotcha.

[Citizen Rules]

Thread Closed



I wish...politics just causes discord, I hate to see all the MoFo's fighting.:(

[cricket]

Thread Closed



I wish...politics just causes discord, I hate to see all the MoFo's fighting.:(


It's just the unfortunate world we live in where it's ok to label the president a rapist, a Supreme Court judge sick, and say where there's smoke there's guilt. Then you have the people who defend those sickening thoughts.

[Iroquois]

Thread Closed



I wish...politics just causes discord, I hate to see all the MoFo's fighting.:(


I don't. Air it out so I know who not to befriend.

[John McClane]

Put em up! Them fighting words!

https://www.phrases.org.uk/images/put-up-your-dukes.jpg

https://thesaurus.plus/img/synonyms/178/put_up_your_fists.png

[Sedai]

I don't. Air it out so I know who not to befriend.

This is a great point.

Relevant video concerning same concept:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLxm6LvRdfQ

[Mr Minio]

The rise of fascism all around the world is disquieting. Would you classify Trump as a fascist. Why, why not?

[Yoda]

No, because I think it's a serious word that requires a lot more than intimations and posturing, which is most of what he does.

I don't mind people being on guard for it and calling out nascent authoritarian leanings, because leaders need to be careful to not even incline in that direction rhetorically, but railing against bad media coverage and actually engaging in formal, fascistic practices to fight them are two very different things.

I also think failing to make these distinctions and treating every tweeted feint as an actual legislative threat is the thing most likely to get him reelected, if he is.

[Citizen Rules]

I don't. Air it out so I know who not to befriend.

Personally, I gauge people on a discussion board by how they interact and treat the other members...and by how they treat me. I don't reward or withhold friendship, based on political views.

[Sedai]

Personally, I gauge people on a discussion board by how they interact and treat the other members...and by how they treat me. I don't reward or withhold friendship, based on political views.


Depends on what you mean, and how they articulate their political views.

If someone says "Man, I hate that ni***r.", in regards to Obama, I tend to not want to associate with them, even though I dislike Obama as a politician quite a bit. In fact, that would inspire be to bring out the ol' ban hammer. No one on MoFo really does that, but there has to be a line somewhere, and sometimes that line intersects with politics.

[Citizen Rules]

Depends on what you mean, and how they articulate their political views.

If someone says "Man, I hate that ni***r.", in regards to Obama, I tend to not want to associate with them, even though I dislike Obama as a politician quite a bit. In fact, that would inspire be to bring out the ol' ban hammer. No one on MoFo really does that, but there has to be a line somewhere, and sometimes that line intersects with politics.I meant: within the realm of what is said and done on MoFo. Obviously someone who was an extreme hater is not someone I want to associate with.

[John McClane]

No, because I think it's a serious word that requires a lot more than intimations and posturing, which is most of what he does.

I don't mind people being on guard for it and calling out nascent authoritarian leanings, because leaders need to be careful to not even incline in that direction rhetorically, but railing against bad media coverage and actually engaging in formal, fascistic practices to fight them are two very different things.

I also think failing to make these distinctions and treating every tweeted feint as an actual legislative threat is the thing most likely to get him reelected, if he is.I agree with this that Trump is not a fascist, but I would argue that some of his tactics/behaviors might lay the groundwork/precedents for a true fascist to arise in America. This is what concerns me most about the current administration. If we can slide this far backwards in the matter of a few years than what's to say we can't slide further, especially given the rise of combative and anger fueled attacks (on both sides).

[Iroquois]

I meant: within the realm of what is said and done on MoFo. Obviously someone who was an extreme hater is not someone I want to associate with.

Even within that realm, I think playing nice with other people on here only matters so much in the grand scheme of things - that's a pretty low bar to clear on here.

[Citizen Rules]

Even within that realm, I think playing nice with other people on here only matters so much in the grand scheme of things - that's a pretty low bar to clear on here.I'm not sure what you're saying exactly? I think you said being nice to other MoFos doesn't really matter? What do you mean by a low bar here? Are you saying most MoFos aren't nice? or that the expected level of posting behavior is too high? or too low?

[Iroquois]

I mean that being nice on here is so easy that I personally don't think it should be the sole measure of a user's worth nor do I think that trying to preserve a superficial sense of peace by simply not talking politics is an ideal solution.

[Sedai]

I agree with this that Trump is not a fascist, but I would argue that some of his tactics/behaviors might lay the groundwork/precedents for a true fascist to arise in America. This is what concerns me most about the current administration. If we can slide this far backwards in the matter of a few years than what's to say we can't slide further, especially given the rise of combative and anger fueled attacks (on both sides).

What groundwork? Rhetoric is just that - rhetoric. Can you list the policies he has instituted that have made our country more fascist since he took office?

Dang it. Here I am having to defend this guy (Trump) again, and I don't even like him!

[Yoda]

You could make an argument that the only way to make fascist policies plausible is to first persuade the population of their worth, which would necessarily mean a lot of rhetoric to that effect long before any formal steps are taken.

That said, the behavior of the people sounding these alarms is pretty hard to reconcile with their purported goals. If your goal is really to act as a bulwark against (very nascent at worst, right now) fascism, you'd have to have noticed by now that people tune the warnings out when they come so quickly and so furiously over things that ultimately just end up being empty bluster. If you keep responding that way anyway, knowing full well you're reducing the chance that people will listen if and when this progresses, then you have to dispense with the idea that you're really trying to stop it, because it's clearly taking a backseat to just venting frustration and/or pillorying people you don't agree with.

I can always tell who's just mad and wants to throw punches, and who's actually concerned and putting those concerns above themselves. The people in the latter group are a lot more nuanced and careful about how and when they object to this stuff. The former group, on the other hand, jumps on every little thing and seems to have no sense of scale.

[Yoda]

I mean that being nice on here is so easy that I personally don't think it should be the sole measure of a user's worth nor do I think that trying to preserve a superficial sense of peace by simply not talking politics is an ideal solution.
I agree it shouldn't be the sole measure of a user's worth. I'm kind of surprised at how often I ban someone and a dozen people don't get it or don't think it's warranted, ultimately just because "they were always nice to me."

That said, superficial peace is ultimately the only kind available if people have diametrically opposed views and strong beliefs that the other person is wrong (or even a bad person for thinking what they do). So the alternative to this "superficial peace" is not "real peace," but war. And I think you'll have to agree that doesn't seem to be a good solution, either.

[cat_sidhe]

I mean that being nice on here is so easy that I personally don't think it should be the sole measure of a user's worth nor do I think that trying to preserve a superficial sense of peace by simply not talking politics is an ideal solution.

If being nice was easy it wouldn't be in the guidelines of most religions.

[John McClane]

What groundwork? Rhetoric is just that - rhetoric. Can you list the policies he has instituted that have made our country more fascist since he took office?

Dang it. Here I am having to defend this guy (Trump) again, and I don't even like him!Policies, no, as executive orders have largely come to be the number one tool for our Presidents over the past decade. So what's done by one can be easily undone by another.

My concern is with the blatant disregard for decency, respect, and decorum. This is, IMO, the single most important roadblock to fascism: the idea that there are others below us who are the cause of our society's ills. Rhetoric is the means with which policies can be instituted; would you not agree? Thus seeing hatred and vilification coming from the highest office in our country brings with it new norms. And you know I'm all about those "normalizing judgments".

Oh yeah, and the gaslighting...yet a new norm I see brewing...and so I am of the general opinion that policies do not breed facisim.

[Citizen Rules]

I mean that being nice on here is so easy that I personally don't think it should be the sole measure of a user's worth nor do I think that trying to preserve a superficial sense of peace by simply not talking politics is an ideal solution. I don't think being nice on here is always easy, in fact personally sometimes it's a challenge to be civil.

Do MoFos have to have a user's worth? Aren't we all worthy and don't we all have worth?

[Sedai]

My concern is with the blatant disregard for decency, respect, and decorum. This is, IMO, the single most important roadblock to fascism:

I would counter with the statement that a population that maintains the proper restraints on government power, through whatever means are necessary, are what keep fascism in check. Our constitution is currently one of those means, a documents that is constantly under attack these days. I mostly see that from the left, along with anti-free speech rhetoric and the like, which is why I tip more to the right these days. I a also getting old, that tends to make a fellow more conservative, for some reason. ;)


The problems you mention seem more aptly described as problems that will tear us apart culturally, which in effect weakens the population against the institutions of power, so in a roundabout way, yes, it makes us more susceptible to that power being abused.

[John McClane]

The problems you mention seem more aptly described as problems that will tear us apart culturally, which in effect weakens the population against the institutions of power, so in a roundabout way, yes, it makes us more susceptible to that power being abused.Yeah, that was kinda my point, especially when we look at how politically engaged populations tend to outweigh those that are not engaged. The age ole young people don't vote...yada yada.

When a cultural split of the same caliber as the 1960s happens but in regards to how we engage in the political process...that's when I see the seeds of fascism take root. But dear Lord, I hope I am long dead before anything like that happens. ;D

[Iroquois]

I agree it shouldn't be the sole measure of a user's worth. I'm kind of surprised at how often I ban someone and a dozen people don't get it or don't think it's warranted, ultimately just because "they were always nice to me."

That said, superficial peace is ultimately the only kind available if people have diametrically opposed views and strong beliefs that the other person is wrong (or even a bad person for thinking what they do). So the alternative to this "superficial peace" is not "real peace," but war. And I think you'll have to agree that doesn't seem to be a good solution, either.

Yeah, I'll admit that I don't think there's any ideal solution, especially not one that would involve perpetual conflict. I just figure I prefer to know where people stand on things (or don't, as the case may be) and work from there.

If being nice was easy it wouldn't be in the guidelines of most religions.

I said being nice on here.

I don't think being nice on here is always easy, in fact personally sometimes it's a challenge to be civil.

Do MoFos have to have a user's worth? Aren't we all worthy and don't we all have worth?

I think the difference is that, when I say it's easy, I mean in the sense that it gets treated as a means of avoiding all conflict and keeping this site (which people obviously treat as a leisure activity) from getting too negative and unpleasant to actually enjoy regardless of whether or not that conflict/negativity is justified - in other words, the easy way out.

[cat_sidhe]

I said being nice on here.



Harder than you think.

[Iroquois]

As I noted already, it really depends on how you define being nice.

[ashdoc]

The rise of fascism all around the world is disquieting. Would you classify Trump as a fascist. Why, why not?

in which countries has it arisen ?

if trump is ready to give up power if he loses the next election then obviously he is not a fascist . real fascists have contempt for elections .

[Yoda]

As I noted already, it really depends on how you define being nice.
I think a good rubric is that it's not really "being nice" if it comes easy. To be nice is to treat someone with civility even when part of you doesn't want to, the same way being brave first requires that you be afraid.

[Sedai]

Yeah, that was kinda my point, especially when we look at how politically engaged populations tend to outweigh those that are not engaged. The age ole young people don't vote...yada yada.

When a cultural split of the same caliber as the 1960s happens but in regards to how we engage in the political process...that's when I see the seeds of fascism take root. But dear Lord, I hope I am long dead before anything like that happens. ;D


As I frequently discuss with my friend Gabe, who is a a really smart left-leaning guy I hang out with a lot: it's up to the more moderate people on both sides to try to keep the boat from rocking too far to either side, trying to maintain a civil dialogue between the two factions. You know, the old lead-by-example paradigm in action! Too bad no one pays attention to two old jack-asses like us hanging around at Gabe's house playing 9-ball while drinking whiskey and ginger ale. They really should, though! ;)


in which countries has it arisen ?


I'd like to know this, too...

[John McClane]

Sedai: Most days I just wonder why I took the red pill...

;)

[Mr Minio]

in which countries has it arisen ? Poland, Hungary, Turkey.

Contemporary China is more fascist than communist tbh.

Apparently India is ruled by a nationalist party now, but don't have much info about it.

[ash_is_the_gal]

being civil on here is actually pretty easy when you're less invested.

[Sedai]

Poland, Hungary, Turkey.

Contemporary China is more fascist than communist tbh.

Apparently India is ruled by a nationalist party now, but don't have much info about it.

I would think we would need to agree on the exact definition of fascism before discussing whether or not Poland is fascist, at this point. And remember, I know WAY more about Poland, just from taking a casual glance at google, than say, someone that lives in Poland.

:D

[ashdoc]

Poland, Hungary, Turkey.

Contemporary China is more fascist than communist tbh.

Apparently India is ruled by a nationalist party now, but don't have much info about it.

I think in Poland Hungary and India , the ruling party will give up power if it loses elections .

Turkey never was a full democracy anyway . The army used to intervene periodically .

China was dictatorial for a long time anyway under the communists . Now it has a dictatorship believing in free market reforms . Does not mean rise of a fascicm. In fact China is relatively open now compared to communist times when people were not allowed to go inside from outside China or Chinese were not allowed to go out .

[Mr Minio]

I would think we would need to agree on the exact definition of fascism before discussing whether or not Poland is fascist, at this point. And remember, I know WAY more about Poland, just from taking a casual glance at google, than say, someone that lives in Poland.:D I know calling somebody or something fascist is pretty edgy these days, but for a country to be fascist you don't need another Third Reich, Mussolini's Italy, or Franco's Spain. You can do it with much less. Let's take a look at Poland:

PiS (Law and Justice), the ultra-conservative, nationalist, populist party (I guess you'd call them far-right in the US) that rules Poland right now:
- used economic problems of the country to gain power (radicalized many people by whataboutism politics of condemning the previously ruling party - PO)
- informs about an "enemy" and influences of "foreign" people, makes up enemies that have to be fought (vilifying and/or making up/exaggerating the threat of EU, immigrants, Jews, Ukrainians, LGBTQ people, Russia...)
- pseudo social political programme that consolidates the electorate (the ideas are passable, but it's all done terribly)
- nationalism (Poland is the messiah of all nations, any critique of Poland or anything Polish makes you an enemy and not worthy of being Polish)
- cult of death, cult of questionable (or downright criminal) "patriotic" Polish "heroes"
- huge importance of the Church that controls people's minds (and unoficially supports PiS), the country is dependent on the Church
- shady businesses of PiS politicians (banks, scams, swindles)
- overt take-over of law enforcement services (the police licks government's shoes and serves PiS - you can see this during some protestations)
- the control of media - the public TV broadcaster Telewizja Polska is basically one giant propaganda tube trying to control public opinion. It promulgates propaganda on all stations it controls. Older people compare it to Communist television. Even PiS advocates admit it's all propaganda, but believe it's necessary evil. That's not all, because:
- attempts to nationalize private media in various ways (including penalties for broadcasting content the party doesn't like)
- lies and manipulations, sexism, bribery, the narration of punishment instead of rehabilitation, militarism
- it's basically an open secret that the chairman Jarosław Kaczyński is de facto the ruler of Poland right now

But above all:

The dismantling and subordination of institutions that provided protection of (oh irony) law and justice. Ignoring the decisions of and then taking over Constitutional Tribunal and Supreme Court, Filling them with PiS-chosen (and PiS serving) people. Full control over the judiciary, open and insolent repeated violation of constitution. All of this without any consequences. Opposition can't do anything. PiS has the majority in Sejm and Senat, any statute is unanimously forced.

I think in Poland Hungary and India , the ruling party will give up power if it loses elections PiS took over the organ that decides whether elections were lawful, so theoretically they can either pronounce them unlawful in case they don't win next elections, or (even worse) rig the votes.

China was dictatorial for a long time anyway under the communists . Now it has a dictatorship believing in free market reforms . Does not mean rise of a fascicm. In fact China is relatively open now compared to communist times when people were not allowed to go inside from outside China or Chinese were not allowed to go out . Let's see:

- corporatism, or the combination of a strong state that sets market standards with humongous business corporations that wield monopoly on the market
- one-party state
- no freedom of media
- no freedom of speech
- strong nationalism, fearmongering, traditionalism, ultra-militarism
- the ubiquity of the state in everyday life
- people are controled by the police state
- cult of strength
- cult of personality

All of these are features of fascism.

[ash_is_the_gal]

48845

[Monkeypunch]

It's just the unfortunate world we live in where it's ok to label the president a rapist, a Supreme Court judge sick, and say where there's smoke there's guilt. Then you have the people who defend those sickening thoughts.

I bet you had a lot to say about Bill Clinton though.:rolleyes:

[cricket]

48845

I agree, journalism has sunk to a new low. Do actors advocate murder if they murder in a movie? Idiots. Then of course the same buffoons bring up Trump and try to blame him for children being separated from their families lol. Don't they watch their senators and see how dumb they sound?

https://youtu.be/IZK1DJ11KO0

[cricket]

I bet you had a lot to say about Bill Clinton though.:rolleyes:

Well I voted for Clinton but I don't remember those days too well haha. While I didn't vote for Trump, it certainly wasn't because of the rumors or his reputation with women. If I had to guess, I'd say they're both dogs who have a weakness for women. I know Clinton lied about it right to the country's face, but I don't like to judge as long as they're not criminals. I think calling either one of them a rapist is pretty rotten and slanderous. From the outside, it looks like they've both been unfaithful to their wives, and that's as good as criminal in my book. Yet, with guys like that, you don't really know what the details are within their relationships, so it's a little unbecoming to judge. If I do judge anyone, it's people who support one and condemn the other for their relations with women. I simply judge those as hypocrites, although that's not the worst thing a person can be.

The funny thing about your post though is the conclusion you can come to just by guessing. I guess that was my point about your other post as well. I mean we all do it, but there should be limits.

[ashdoc]

India likely to be sanctioned by Trump for buying Russian long range surface to Air missiles---

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/india-will-soon-find-out-trump-on-us-sanctions-for-s-400-deal-with-russia/articleshow/66157531.cms

[Omnizoa]

I didn't "evade your rebuttals" You weren't making rebuttals.
This got 5 upvotes. I am disappointed in you, MoFo.

[Yoda]

I mean, it's pretty obvious in almost every debate that people reflexively rep people from their side.

[Omnizoa]

This got 5 upvotes. I am disappointed in you, MoFo.
Not just that, but I am disappointed in my state in general. Democrats have been at the wheel for years and homelessness has only grown, there are now literal colonies of poor homeless people where I live now and what have the Democrats done to solve the problem? They passed a $15 minimum wage hike of course, which is more money than most people I know make. They have literally made it more expensive to employ people like me, and they're the one's who claim to fight income inequality and put our poorest people first? Yesterday were our midterm elections and who did the people in their all encompassing wisdom vote for? Not the small government Republican who was totally transparent about wanting to cut taxes, abolish unelected government bodies, and eliminate costly regulatory programs, but the Democrat who, when put on the spot about how he would fund his multivarious promises including his belief that "healthcare is a human right", just filibustered and turned the question back on his opponent who would merely reiterate his platform.

My state didn't vote for a liberal, they voted for a Democrat. And it should come as no surprise, if Powdered Water can be consistently dishonest and ignore my numerous mile-long posts with point-by-point deconstructions of his various fallacious arguments and get more likes than me, why shouldn't the politician with blatantly inferior policies from the political party which has done the most harm to the state get the popular vote?

How is it that, in the most literal sense of the term, given a question between a Democracy or a Republic; I'm a Democrat, but given a choice between a "new deal liberal" or a fiscal conservative, I'd vote Republican? I don't want to vote Republican, I don't want to elect people into a seat of power who believe in a god, I don't want social conservatives in charge of anything to do with my life, I'm not a traditionalist, but I'd elect Yoda in a heartbeat over literally any Democrat I know of because at the very least he understands how the market economy is supposed to work and that government imposing costs on it is what makes people poorer and puts them out of work.

I've never heard of a small-government Democrat. If you can show me one I'll consider voting for them, but as far as I'm aware, actual liberals are either Republican or Libertarian. And pitifully few people vote Libertarian

[Captain Steel]

Not just that, but I am disappointed in my state in general.

Omni - you're disappointed in YOUR state?

My state astounds me.
Those on the left have (somewhat rightfully) been outraged over Trump's several-years-old bit of "locker room talk" that was spoken in private with another male, but caught on an open mic... then they flipped out over Trump's SC nominee, Kavanaugh, painting him as a serial rapist despite a handful of vague, uncorroborated or outright false claims orchestrated by the Democrats to destroy the man and taint him for life with a smear they will bring up at every election in the future.

And then those same people who tout themselves as the champions of women's rights, re-elect an indicted pedophile who trafficked in underage female prostitutes in other countries along with a laundry list of other crimes! They elected this man to the same Senate whose Democrat members tried to destroy Kavanaugh over sexual misconduct!!!


What gets me is the hypocrisy!

Not to mention that through the whole Kavanaugh fiasco, Dems literally ignored the claims of the woman who accused their Chairman Keith Ellisson of the DNC of abuse.

To add insult to injury, they had a Democrat committee investigate the accusations against Ellison (while demanding that the FBI investigate Kavanaugh and saying that if he didn't call for an FBI investigation of himself it PROVED he was guilty! Then saying the FBI investigation was inadequate after they interviewed 150 people over an incident that allegedly took place 36 years ago!)

Then they dismissed the accusations against Ellison saying his victim didn't provide enough evidence of abuse that occurred less than a year ago (despite Dr's reports and witnesses) - meanwhile they said the Kavanaugh accusers had a "right" to be believed despite absolutely no evidence, no corroboration and no facts - not even a date or place!

[7thson]

To me it is more than hypocrisy, it goes deeper than that, to the very core of some. The thing is they honestly do not think of themselves as liars, embellishers, hypocrates, hysterical (both men and women); these "means to an end" .groups are dangerous to the country, hell to the world. The pie in the sky attitude and behavior astonishes me and this really is not anything new, but it is definitely more intense than I have ever seen it. It can happen for either side (Dems or Reps, Libs or conservatives) and does, but lately the Liberals are in the lead. I am speaking of the politicians mostly and not the general public, but it definitely does have a lot of carryover.

It seems so many are willing to vote on party lines no matter who the candidate is. We need to stop following the media's lead and yes that includes Fox and do our own research and make up our own minds. Stop "overlooking" ones history while we condemn another for theirs.

[ashdoc]

There should be a law that people who deliberately take decision not to have children inspite of having no health problems should be barred from voting . Lazy and selfish people who contribute nothing to society should not have voting rights . That will effectively break the back of the democrats !!

[Omnizoa]

There should be a law that people who deliberately take decision not to have children inspite of having no health problems should be barred from voting . Lazy and selfish people who contribute nothing to society should not have voting rights . That will effectively break the back of the democrats !!
...le what.

I have no intention of having kids, so you must be including me under this banner, and to cast that as "lazy and selfish" and "contributing nothing to society" is just... baffling. In what way does having children contribute to society? I know many people who have kids specifically because they are lazy and selfish and use them to leech off of society. Society across the globe is not organized in a way which can accommodate unchecked population growth, and so I choose not to contribute to the problem out of moral principle.

The only way I can conceive of this making any sort of sense is by suggesting that if you intend to spread your political ideals, an effective way to do so is to procreate and indoctrinate your children into the voting bloc, which is a strategy employed by political Islam.

The thought that good ideas can only hope to survive by outbreeding their political opponents is quite frankly disgusting to me and accusing others of being "selfish" for resisting a natural temptation out of consideration for society is bass-ackwards.

I'd hate to think that this is a popular sphere of thought in India.

[Powdered Water]

This got 5 upvotes. I am disappointed in you, MoFo.




I'm sure you could get more people to agree with you if you'd be willing to be a little less of a d*ck. You talk down to everyone here from what I've seen. How's that workin out for ya? That's another reason why I won't respond to any more of your "posts" by the way.

[Omnizoa]

Not to mention that through the whole Kavanaugh fiasco,
I don't bother with drama. The Kavanaugh thing is just one more needle in a metal haystack of "scandals" partisans of all stripes have seen fit to build up over the years and point to at any time they want to slime the competition. I'm sick of hearing conservatives bring up Hillary Clinton and her emails like they're still relevant. Even when they were relevant, their contents were unilaterally secondary to her platform.

A platform which, by the way, I heard virtually no criticism of (and to this day still know nothing about). If there was anything wrong with Hillary Clinton it was always something to do with her emails or Benghazi (which was bad, admittedly, but still wildly blown out of proportion). The media will shriek it's mouth off accusing the other side of lying, or being psychopathic, or just straight up evil, but relatively few words are spoken about their platform. It's always spoken in ways that suggest the policy is implicitly wrong, but rarely are the details of why a particular idea is objectively bad come up except in interviews with politicians, both the left and right-wing do this.

It's the sorry state of politics that more words are spoken about Hillary Clinton's blackberry and the size of Trump's hands than of actual policy.

[ashdoc]

...le what.

I have no intention of having kids, so you must be including me under this banner, and to cast that as "lazy and selfish" and "contributing nothing to society" is just... baffling. In what way does having children contribute to society? I know many people who have kids specifically because they are lazy and selfish and use them to leech off of society. Society across the globe is not organized in a way which can accommodate unchecked population growth, and so I choose not to contribute to the problem out of moral principle.

The only way I can conceive of this making any sort of sense is by suggesting that if you intend to spread your political ideals, an effective way to do so is to procreate and indoctrinate your children into the voting bloc, which is a strategy employed by political Islam.

The thought that good ideas can only hope to survive by outbreeding their political opponents is quite frankly disgusting to me and accusing others of being "selfish" for resisting a natural temptation out of consideration for society is bass-ackwards.

I'd hate to think that this is a popular sphere of thought in India.

I don't know why I am accused of promoting 'outbreeding' . I never promoted breeding in excessive numbers . But consider the state of the white people . They are dwindling to the point of being reduced to minority in 15-20 years . They need to produce 2 children per couple just to maintain numbers not outbreed .

To survive you will have to produce some children in order to counter those who believe in procreating and indoctrinating children into a voting bloc . This is especially relevant in Europe where political islam will make powerful impact in some years .

[Omnizoa]

I'm sure you could get more people to agree with you if you'd be willing to be a little less of a d*ck.
I refuse.

You talk down to everyone here from what I've seen.
That's because you only pretend to read the posts responding to you.

How's that workin out for ya? That's another reason why I won't respond to any more of your "posts" by the way.
I won't lose any sleep over it. Fewer posts from Powdered Water is more time I can spend doing something productive.

But fear not, that won't stop me from pointing out your bull****, like how your framing of "posts" in quotations is just another uncharitable escalation of your denial that I've made "rebuttals".

Cover your eyes, stick your head in the dirt, and throw shade, I'd expect nothing less.

[Omnizoa]

I don't know why I am accused of promoting 'outbreeding' . I never promoted breeding in excessive numbers .
"Outbreeding" does not mean breeding in excessive numbers, it means breeding one breed greater than another breed.

This also just invites the question of what you think constitutes "excessive numbers", because I think we're well past that, India especially.

But consider the state of the white people .
Must we?

They are dwindling to the point of being reduced to minority in 15-20 years .
I... don't care.

To survive you will have to produce some children in order to counter those who believe in procreating and indoctrinating children into a voting bloc .
That again presupposes that that is a winning strategy. It also presupposes a conflation of "white people" and certain beliefs.

This is especially relevant in Europe where political islam will make powerful impact in some years .
It's already made quite an impact. What can be said other than that Europe has consistently failed to maintain it's borders and stand by secularism?

[ScarletLion]

This is a shameful period in history.

I would like to think that at some point in the distant future Sarah Sanders will look back and regret defending this pig of an excuse for a human being, and that she will realise it is just a job, and her actions, lies and misrepresentation did so much damage to those watching on.

Shame on anybody that doesn't chastise Trump, his administration and his reprehensible, moronic words. Shame on you.

[Mr Minio]

There should be a law that people who deliberately take decision not to have children inspite of having no health problems should be barred from voting .
Yep. I think only white heterosexual Christian males with at least 3 kids should be allowed to vote. /s

Seriously, though. This would be an attack on personal freedom. You can't impose your worldview on other people. You can't force a couple to have children under the threat of losing voting rights, and you can't punish a person for making a personal choice that doesn't hurt anybody.

But yeah, I'm interested in Asian women. I really don't want to have children, and chances this is going to change are very low. So, you see, even if I change my mind, I'll still be contributing to the extinction of the white race. Quick, take my voting rights away ASAP! :)

[matt72582]

Yep. I think only white heterosexual Christian males with at least 3 kids should be allowed to vote. /s

Seriously, though. This would be an attack on personal freedom. You can't impose your worldview on other people. You can't force a couple to have children under the threat of losing voting rights, and you can't punish a person for making a personal choice that doesn't hurt anybody.

But yeah, I'm interested in Asian women. I really don't want to have children, and chances this is going to change are very low. So, you see, even if I change my mind, I'll still be contributing to the extinction of the white race. Quick, take my voting rights away ASAP! :)


You need to adopt an Asian grandma.

[TheUsualSuspect]

There should be a law that people who deliberately take decision not to have children inspite of having no health problems should be barred from voting . Lazy and selfish people who contribute nothing to society should not have voting rights . That will effectively break the back of the democrats !!


I'm assuming this is sarcasm. I hope.


Anyways, look at this violent reporter touching a helpless intern.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYNM6UQVW04


Good on Trump for calling him after the mic is given away and good on him for telling the next guy he's not a great reporter either just because he stood up for Acosta. Trump is a diligent, humane and kind human being. :rolleyes:

This guy is a joke of a President. Sometimes I sit and have to remind myself that Donald Freaking Trump is your President. Wow.

[ash_is_the_gal]

There should be a law that people who deliberately take decision not to have children inspite of having no health problems should be barred from voting . Lazy and selfish people who contribute nothing to society should not have voting rights . That will effectively break the back of the democrats !!
oh stop spreading your hate.

[ash_is_the_gal]

I don't know why I am accused of promoting 'outbreeding' . I never promoted breeding in excessive numbers . But consider the state of the white people . They are dwindling to the point of being reduced to minority in 15-20 years . They need to produce 2 children per couple just to maintain numbers not outbreed so fkn what? is humanity going to curl up and die w/o white people?

[Yoda]

Yeah, you can't (and shouldn't) conflate race with ideology. And I'm not sure it makes sense even if you do; I'm pretty sure that white people that have fewer children are disproportionately likely to be liberal, anyway. I'm pretty sure, based on your other beliefs about culture and society, you should prefer a Mexican Catholic to your average NPR podcast listener.

I don't really care if 100% of Americans in a few centuries are brown and/or speak Spanish, so long as they're saying viva la constitución.

[cat_sidhe]

Not going to lie. Had a tenner on this topic leading to ashdoc mentioning white people breeding. :lol: Ta!!!

[Yoda]

I think a red flag needs to go off in your head if you find yourself citing the same thing, over and over, as the cause of lots of different problems. What's more likely: that you've cracked some cultural code, or that you're oversimplifying the world in a way that makes it easier to grapple with?

[ashdoc]

the white people thing came in an answer later . actually my original post was this---

There should be a law that people who deliberately take decision not to have children inspite of having no health problems should be barred from voting . Lazy and selfish people who contribute nothing to society should not have voting rights . That will effectively break the back of the democrats !!

i was thinking of ways the democrats could be beaten . because they represent liberal lobby and at least in my country the liberals are opposed to everything hindu ( my religion ) . they want to curtail hindu customs traditions festivals everything . i think hindus in my country are in the same position as whites in USA . i empathise with president Trump's supporters because they feel similarly under threat like hindus in india .

[ash_is_the_gal]

Not going to lie. Had a tenner on this topic leading to ashdoc mentioning white people breeding. :lol: Ta!!!
he's more interested in my sex life than i am these days

[Yoda]

I love children, I think having children is great and I'm certainly concerned (as any rational, informed person must be) about lowered birth rates. But the idea that having children is the only way to contribute to society is risible.

[ashdoc]

I love children, I think having children is great and I'm certainly concerned (as any rational, informed person must be) about lowered birth rates. But the idea that having children is the only way to contribute to society is risible.

it's obviously not the only way to contribute to society .but it is the only way in which your all too perfect western society is lacking . in europe this is going to lead to clear cut confrontation on violent scale with political islam as muslim population rises . i dont know what is going to happen in america .

[ash_is_the_gal]

as a woman, it's obviously highly offensive to be reduced to non-human status for the decision not to have kids. ash needs to get off his dumbass high horse and start realizing there are LOTS of ways to contribute to society that doesn't involve kids, as well as the idea of having to save white people from extinction is such a non-issue it's silly.

he won't, lol, but hey from one word vomitter to another. o/\o

[ashdoc]

Not going to lie. Had a tenner on this topic leading to ashdoc mentioning white people breeding. :lol: Ta!!!

that is the elephant in the room , but you want to close your eyes to it . my broaching of uncomfortable truths makes you uneasy . you would rather live in blissful ignorance .

[ashdoc]

President Trump greets Indians on occasion of diwali---the festival of lights .

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/donald-trump-says-diwali-special-opportunity-to-reflect-on-india-us-friendship-1944184

[Yoda]

that is the elephant in the room , but you want to close your eyes to it . my broaching of uncomfortable truths makes you uneasy . you would rather live in blissful ignorance .
Please note that I'm going to delete any future posts like this, where you simply make an insulting assertion.

[ashdoc]

Please note that I'm going to delete any future posts like this, where you simply make an insulting assertion.

Yeah I should quit the discussion itself . i am ruining my diwali ( festival of lights ) .

[cat_sidhe]

that is the elephant in the room , but you want to close your eyes to it . my broaching of uncomfortable truths makes you uneasy . you would rather live in blissful ignorance .

What you haven't grappled with is that white people are entirely comfortable with how we breed. You're the one freaking out, and you're doing it at every ridiculous moment. If someone complains about their cereal, somehow you'll turn it into white people not having enough kids.

Seriously. It isn't your fight. PLEASE stop trying to save people who aren't asking to be saved. It's annoying as ****. It's like getting the same unsolicited advice when you're straight up asking for it to please stop. It becomes like harrasssment after a while and the only effect it will have is people beligerently takig the opposite view because your not being able to let it go is so offputting people SCRAMBLE to distance themselves from it.

Give it a ****ing rest. Please!

[ynwtf]

Just had a few minutes to burn before moving to another project so I thought I'd offer an anecdote.

I always wanted two kids. A son and a daughter would have been ideal. I wanted to teach them to be good people, mindful of others, supportive, and empathetic of those from other ways of life or opinions. Also, I wanted them to be musical rock star ninjas that stick up for the little guys. As life continues to move on (without me, most times), I have come to the awareness that this little fantasy is most likely never going to play out for me. No teaching Jr. the guitar. No training [insert undecided name of daughter here] in the ways of Korean Haidong Gumdo (no, that is not a delicious stew, though it definitely sounds like it should be). No teaching my children of right and wrong or of morality and ethics. My last relationship was with an older partner. Had we married, we would not have been able to have children, but that was an unfortunate sacrifice that I was happy to make if it meant being with someone that I truly loved. I ask myself (as I do with most crossroads in life), "where are my lines, and for what ideals am I willing to cross them?"

I may never have children of my own, but that does not emphatically mean that I concede opportunity to teach lessons that others typically reserve for only their children. I'm not sure how race, nationality, religion, or any other assortment of labels restrict the ability to teach and learn. Yes, there is a weird play in which one generic political body may breed more or less than another. I can even see how, in a very limited view, that that dynamic can be used as some morbid social gerrymandering for political gain. Seems like an awful lot of work for little payoff, but sure. I get it. I'd recommend Idiocracy (2006) as a possible end-game from that approach.

[ashdoc]

What you haven't grappled with is that white people are entirely comfortable with how we breed. You're the one freaking out, and you're doing it at every ridiculous moment. IF someone complains about their cereal, somehow you'll turn it into white people not having enough kids.

Seriously. It isn't your fight. PLEASE stop trying to save people who aren't asking to be saved. It's annoying as ****. It's like getting the same unsolicited advice when you're striahgt up asking for it to please stop. It becomes like harrasssment after a while and the only effect it will have is people beigerently takig the opposite view because your not being able to letr it go is so offputting people SCRAMBLE to distance themseves from it.

Give it a ****ing rest. Please!

admittedly you are right . will try to shut up in future .

[matt72582]

Ash - it seems like 90% of your posts are hating on us for not having kids.. You seem to dislike the liberals in your country because they are tired of thousands of years of religious dogma interfering with humanity.



I don't want kids! Stop saying we're destroying civilization! (and even if it were, I'd STILL wouldn't have kids!)

[Citizen Rules]

...I don't want kids! Stop saying we're destroying civilization! (and even if it were, I'd STILL wouldn't have kids!) That goes for me too.

Ash I like you, but you really are a big ol' hypocrite telling us to have kids when you don't have any. Go make some of your own babies would ya....Or are you infertile or something like that? I'm thinking maybe all of this is a smoke screen to cover your own disappointment for not having any kids. Am I right?

[ashdoc]

Ash - it seems like 90% of your posts are hating on us for not having kids.. You seem to dislike the liberals in your country because they are tired of thousands of years of religious dogma interfering with humanity.


no , not true , admittedly many of my political posts are about not having kids . but you then obviously haven't read my movie reviews which are about movies---

https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=32604

https://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=35427

in my country liberals attack only hindu customs because of the alleged privileged position of hindus and do not attack customs of other religions , and that's where i have a problem .

[Yoda]

This thread seems to have become a non-specific catch-all for any political or cultural arguments, most of which become very quickly personalized. I'm not sure it's necessary any more. I'm closing it.