View Full Version : How to move to Canada and become a Canadian citizen
If the race between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump has you feeling disillusioned with American democracy, you may find yourself imagining a move to Canada.
After all, it's a land where healthcare is free, people are friendly, and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau explains quantum computing just for laughs.
But actually becoming a citizen is tough: You need to live in Canada for at least six years, stay on your best behavior, and know a thing or two about the country you'll soon call home.
For those who actually want to head up north, here's how you move to Canada.
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-move-canada-2016-11/#preface-make-sure-youre-not-already-a-canadian-citizen-1
;)
CosmicRunaway
11-09-16, 12:42 PM
That article promotes incorrect information. These are the actual requirements:
01. Know what a double double is.
02. Own a toque.
03. Have, on at least one occasion, attempted to take the centre out of a toonie.
04. Apologize all the time for no reason.
05. At least know how to mumble the French parts of Oh Canada.
06. Know how to build an igloo.
07. Must be able to come up with at least one dumb Newfie joke.
08. Know what the "All Dressed" flavour of chips tastes like.
Movie Max
11-09-16, 12:49 PM
Why do I get the impression that your best and most patriotic are staying put? Especially after yesterday's show of unity and strength. Just like they have stayed put through so many other presidents, who may not have been their favorites.
Sexy Celebrity
11-09-16, 12:50 PM
TONGO, will you also be moving to another forum?
Everywhere you go, there will be lots of people you disagree with. I'd rather live in a place with a long history of duking those differences out, that's literally based on diversity, than bounce from place to place trying to temporarily avoid those confrontations.
America will probably be fine, and if it isn't, it's for reasons that aren't going to be relegated to it, anyway.
Everywhere you go, there will be lots of people you disagree with. I'd rather live in a place with a long history of duking those differences out, that's literally based on diversity, than bounce from place to place trying to temporarily avoid those confrontations.
America will probably be fine, and if it isn't, it's for reasons that aren't going to be relegated to it, anyway.
Im a caretaker for my Mom, I cant leave her, but yeah this is on a level of disgust in my own countrymen to where I would seriously consider it if I could.
Nah. I sympathize with the desire but I actually don't feel it myself. On the contrary, I feel more compelled than ever to start being more informed and active about this country.
I'd love to live there for a while, I'm considering going to BC to study abroad for a semester. I speak a bit of French as well!! Not Quebecois French though :D
Nah. I sympathize with the desire but I actually don't feel it myself. On the contrary, I feel more compelled than ever to start being more informed and active about this country.
Good man. Yeah its too soon for me to honestly say Im over it, but I will be. Im not gonna go forward all bitter and upset like ...well, like I have been throughout this election. Sure I had damn good reason, but its done. Im letting it go now for my own well being. ;)
Captain Steel
11-09-16, 01:55 PM
I'm moving... back to the bedroom!
Citizen Rules
11-09-16, 02:03 PM
I like Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada myself.
Movie Max
11-16-16, 08:28 AM
First, get to know your vintage beer commercials...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMxGVfk09lU
I like Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada myself.
No way, I'm considering going to Victoria University for my second year!
earlsmoviepicks
11-16-16, 08:32 AM
I'd go if I could see Lena Dunham chopping down a tree
Guaporense
11-16-16, 07:43 PM
You can try moving to Mexico if you think Canadian citizenship is hard. ��
Derek Vinyard
11-16-16, 07:44 PM
I'd love to live there for a while, I'm considering going to BC to study abroad for a semester. I speak a bit of French as well!! Not Quebecois French though :D
Tabarnack! you should.
Guaporense
11-16-16, 07:50 PM
People are really overreacting with Trump. The US is a country with strong institutions so it's not like Trump will have dictatorial powers and if he starts doing a lot of stupid stuff he will be impeached. Anyway, the president will not be able to affect your daily life significantly: His powers are not unlimited.
Citizen Rules
11-16-16, 07:52 PM
I'd love to live there for a while, I'm considering going to BC to study abroad for a semester. I speak a bit of French as well!! Not Quebecois French though :D
No way, I'm considering going to Victoria University for my second year!
Victoria is an awesome city, I've visited several times, loved it and the surrounding area is very cool too. No French required in B.C.:p English helps though:)
People are really overreacting with Trump. The US is a country with strong institutions so it's not like Trump will have dictatorial powers and if he starts doing a lot of stupid stuff he will be impeached. Anyway, the president will not be able to affect your daily life significantly: His powers are not unlimited.
Sorry for the off-topic post but what is your avatar? haha
Guaporense
11-16-16, 08:29 PM
That's a typical American. So that they feel more at home when answering my posts.
Why do you even stick around when you clearly hate everyone here?
I like you man but you are clearly trying to bait people with that. Whatever.
cricket
11-16-16, 08:33 PM
That's a typical American. So that they feel more at home when answering my posts.
:walter::busey:
Guaporense
11-16-16, 08:40 PM
Everywhere you go, there will be lots of people you disagree with. I'd rather live in a place with a long history of duking those differences out, that's literally based on diversity, than bounce from place to place trying to temporarily avoid those confrontations.
Most countries are more open to foreign culture than the US which is extremely closed to foreign culture. And I wouldn't say the US is based on diversity either since it's essentially a Germanic culture (some people in Brazil even regard the US as a nordic country). It has a lot of foreigners because it's rich not because they migrate to the US seeking "diversity". And I also don't think the US is that accepting of imigrants, because imigrants still stay in their own guettos and become isolated cultural islands in the middle of a sea of Germanic culture, for instance how many Blacks and "hispanics" you have in thIs forum? Zero, every American here is white (from the profile pictures thread). Each ethnic group in the US creates it's own bubble, this forum is an example of American white culture which consists of obsession with anything made by white American movie directors and complete lack of interest in anything else.
While in Brazil the immigrants we got are almost completely assimilated into the country's culture (except the Japanese ones).
Brazil and Mexico are actually more diverse culturally but millions of Mexicans migrate to the US for one reason only: higher wages. In my case it's the same: academia pays more here than anywhere else.
So there are benefits from moving out of US.
Guaporense
11-16-16, 08:41 PM
Why do you even stick around when you clearly hate everyone here?
I like you man but you are clearly trying to bait people with that. Whatever.
Oh its because they ask me to stay here by baiting. And I don't hate anyone here. Why would you think that?
Citizen Rules
11-16-16, 08:44 PM
Most countries are more open to foreign culture than the US which is extremely closed to foreign culture... I thought you said Japan was the most xenophobic culture. And by 'xenophobic' do you because everyone in the world doesn't love magna school girl anime as much as you do?
Guaporense
11-16-16, 08:48 PM
See, I don't hate people here but for some reason they hate me. Look at this completely unprovoked personal attack above.
Citizen, hatred creates only hatred. Why are you being so immature?
And by the way I never said the US was the most closed culture, the most closed culture are some tribes in the Amazon without any contact with other tribes. The US, however, appears to be the most closed culture among industrialized cultures.
Japan is not actually closed from a cultural point of view, the Western world is much more closed than the Japanese world is. Japan is closed to immigrants though. There is also the physical difficulty in moving into that island via Europe and the US.
Finally, discrimination against erotiticism in comics and animation is also a form of xenophobia because it's not an element of white American culture. By the way, while I don't read nor watch pornographic comics and animation but still I find it disgusting when Americans make fun of people who do just because it's not part of white American culture.
See, I don't hate people here but for some reason they hate me. Look at this completely unprovoked personal attack above.
Citizen, hatred creates only hatred. Why are you being so immature?
And by the way I never said the US was the most closed culture, the most closed culture are some tribes in the Amazon without any contact with other tribes. The US, however, appears to be the most closed culture among industrialized cultures.
Japan is not actually closed from a cultural point of view, the Western world is much more closed than the Japanese world is. Japan is closed to immigrants though. There is also the physical difficulty in moving into that island via Europe and the US.
You love manga school girl anime?
On a serious note though, Id never consider going to Japan. It simply is too overpopulated, and because of that very expensive..
Guaporense
11-16-16, 09:08 PM
You love manga school girl anime?
What's that? I never heard of this particular title.
On a more serious note, the use of these words articulated in this way is also a form of xenophobia. It's like saying you are a Jew lover if you have Jewish friends.
Citizen Rules
11-16-16, 09:12 PM
... I find it disgusting when Americans make fun of people who do just because it's not part of white American culture. You missed my point, we are all entitled to watch/like/eat/think what we want. I'm not poking fun at what you like, I'm poking fun that you get sooooo upset that other people don't like magna anime that you start insulting entire cultures and countries.
Guaporense
11-16-16, 09:23 PM
I am not insulting "America" just because I am describing what it is. Yes the US is not a open culture, yes, the US is xenophobic. And Americans cannot even tolerate a little bit of honest appraisal of their country without attacking the person who apraised it.
And that has nothing to do with the lack of interest of people here with modern Japanese culture. Although it certainly is a reflection of xenophobia: I would think that movie nerds would be more familiar with the visual pop culture of the modern world. Instead we have people who watch 10 movies a day but cannot name a single character from One Piece just because its not "american".
I am not least bit upset that not all the people here do not share my interests. What upsets me is this arrogance that I find disgusting of for instance claiming that the US is perfect and celebrates diversity, that it is superior to anything else, when it's obviously not (look at just who you guys just have elected!).
And I am also upset that people here attack me on a personal level as well. Can you understand that or not?
hahaha damn. Sorry for causing this to go so far off-topic guys, that was honestly an innocent question i didn't even think about what it was.
I dont care if its off-topic. He doesnt live in the US and was born here, so actually, he is somewhat the spirit of the thread.
Not that I want to be bitter. ;)
Citizen Rules
11-16-16, 09:47 PM
What a minute, I though Guap did live in the U.S.?
He doesnt live in the US and was born here
Do you mean Guap? It's actually the other way round, he was born in Brazil and lives in the US i believe.
Guaporense
11-16-16, 09:50 PM
I have lived in the US for almost 4 years already.
I found out: It's not an open culture and it does not celebrate diversity. Although they like to think they do.
In fact, it's the closest culture among industrialized countries: Americans only watch American movies, read books written by English language writers, listen to Anglo-American music, etc. And they still claim that "they celebrate diversity and are the world's most diverse country". Well, diversity in guettoes: they have the chinese one, the korean one, the mexican ones, the costa rican ones, many black guettoes, immersed into a Germanic cultural ocean.
I went to a weeding party last week of an American friend of mine. In her weeding party there were 200 white people, 199 Americans and me, 0 non-white people. I don't have a problem with that per see, people are free to do what they want. But, they shouldn't claim to be "celebrating diversity".
Bit off topic, but the one thing I don't like about Britain is that we aren't multi lingual (except if you're from North Wales). I always feel so ignorant when people in, say, Switzerland, can speak up to 4 languages fluently, but I have to go out of my way to learn another language :sick:
Nope1172
11-16-16, 10:10 PM
I know that the whole moving to Canada thing is mostly a joke, but to people who actually do it, I think it is abandoning your country in a time of need. Instead of just complaining or leaving the country, people who are against Donald Trump should either volunteer or donate to different foundations and services. (Also Canada is not a perfect utopia either)
I have lived in the US for almost 4 years already.
I found out: It's not an open culture and it does not celebrate diversity. Although they like to think they do.
I had you completely wrong, thinking you a citizen.
I remember years ago when you first came here you got upset by peoples lack of anime interest, and made a goodbye thread. Here we are years later and youre still bitching the same tune with different lyrics. Whatever man, nobodys holding you anywhere. I have nothing personally against you, but ....really? Still?!
Evolve bro', evolve. :yup:
I know that the whole moving to Canada thing is mostly a joke, but to people who actually do it, I think it is abandoning your country in a time of need. Instead of just complaining or leaving the country, people who are against Donald Trump should either volunteer or donate to different foundations and services. (Also Canada is not a perfect utopia either)
If people want to leave they should. Its what brought us here in the first place. A disdain for where they were at. Its hard to be proud of my country right now.
UGH! I gotta get outta this thread.
http://i.imgur.com/MFDyS4o.gif
Guaporense
11-16-16, 10:22 PM
I remember years ago when you first came here you got upset by peoples lack of anime interest, and made a goodbye thread.
Not true. I was upset by the lack of RESPECT they had for modern Japanese culture. But of course, let idiots be idiots.
Here we are years later and youre still bitching the same tune with different lyrics. Whatever man, nobodys holding you anywhere. I have nothing personally against you, but ....really? Still?!
I am really obsessed by the people here. I think it's my obsession in trying to correct people. I have to just let ignorant people be ignorant and happy: thinking they live in the greatest open culture in the world and that they are liberal and open minded even though they only know the culture of one country.
And of course, nothing I said here was understood by anybody here. In your heads I am just "Immature anime guy who likes things immature people like and cannot understand the greatness of the infinitely superior open culture produced by the American master race so, in immature fashion, gets all upset when people are not as immature and narrow minded as he is." It's like talking to walls: you will not give an inch: "the US is perfect and Americans are perfect and cannot be criticized, they are the master race and they are fully justified in being ignorant xenophobes because the rest of the world is garbage."
By the way, thinking that people who "like anime" are "immature" is in itself deeply xenophobic as well as attacking me personally in the fashion Citizen did. But you would have understood that already so I am just wasting my time.
It's impossible for me to make any point here that people already attack me and attack me using my interest for non-American culture as a weapon. That's in itself shows how deeply xenophobic and ignorant muricans are.
Mr Minio
11-16-16, 10:30 PM
I always feel so ignorant when people in, say, Switzerland, can speak up to 4 languages fluently Well, Switzerland is divided into four main language zones (German, French, Italian and Romansh) and people mostly speak one or two (when living next to the intersection of these zones) languages plus English (that mostly holds for young people, though). It still makes two or three languages, which is a nice score. Also, there's a huge Serbo-Croatian minority there.
I speak Polish and English and would like to improve my basic level Russian, but since I can't find any need for Russian language in my life, it's pretty hard to get it done. I used to speak German on a pretty basic level, too, but I forgot most of it by now. I still remember some vocabulary and basics of basics. Ich mag Pizza essen und Cola trinken. Ja, ja, das ist gut! Das ist Grossartig, du schwanz.
@OP question in thread's title... Here's how to become a Canadian in 5 easy steps with Mr Minio:
1. Grow an impressive beard and chest hair.
2. Wear lumberjack shirt and carry an axe with yourself all the time.
3. Go to a Canadian forest and live there for a couple of months living solely on maple syrup.
4. Wrestle a bear with your bare hands towards the end of your journey.
5. If you're still alive, you're worthy of becoming a Canadian!
There's an easier option, though:
1. Go to Canada and pretend to be Derek Vinyard's bastard brother.
2. ???
3. PROFIT!
Wow, I'm so xenophobic and racist towards Canadians now! I mean, they don't even have cute Japanese anime girls there. What a lame country!
UGH! I gotta get outta this thread.
As long as you remember you're the booby that made it.
for instance how many Blacks and "hispanics" you have in thIs forum? Zero, every American here is white (from the profile pictures thread).
Er, not every American picture in there is white (I'm guessing you're just going off of memory, having half-skimmed it, right?). This isn't a good basis for such a sweeping statement.
I have lived in the US for almost 4 years already.
I found out: It's not an open culture and it does not celebrate diversity. Although they like to think they do.
In fact, it's the closest culture among industrialized countries: Americans only watch American movies, read books written by English language writers, listen to Anglo-American music, etc. And they still claim that "they celebrate diversity and are the world's most diverse country". Well, diversity in guettoes: they have the chinese one, the korean one, the mexican ones, the costa rican ones, many black guettoes, immersed into a Germanic cultural ocean.
I went to a weeding party last week of an American friend of mine. In her weeding party there were 200 white people, 199 Americans and me, 0 non-white people. I don't have a problem with that per see, people are free to do what they want. But, they shouldn't claim to be "celebrating diversity".
Are you basing this off of a few years living in one spot in the Midwest? Because this doesn't sound anything like my experience, and I don't think it sounds like the experience of many other Americans, either.
There are some other basic logic problems with the way you treat "American" culture like a monolith, and ignore that it's actually an amalgamation of many other cultures, but hey, one thing at a time. Best to start with all the small sample size issues.
And I am also upset that people here attack me on a personal level as well. Can you understand that or not?
I can understand why people get upset when they're personally attacked. What I don't get is why you classify so many straightforward comments or disagreements as "personal attacks" to begin with. Disagreements about taste are not attacks.
The definition also appears to shrink dramatically when the situation is reversed. That has left you in the odd, untenable position of suggesting "you like anime" is an attack on your soul, whereas "your entire culture is ignorant and xenophobic" is just a neutral fact.
Captain Steel
11-17-16, 01:59 PM
I know the Canadian national anthem by heart and enjoy singing it.
I just like the song.
I like the "we stand on guard for thee" line.
Wish the USA had more of that sentiment which would make us more dedicated to secure our borders; protect our citizens; reform & improve our immigration systems; reinforce our national security; and support, strengthen and enhance our military.
I know the Canadian national anthem by heart and enjoy singing it.
I just like the song.
I like the "we stand on guard for thee" line.
When I was a kid I thought they were saying "we stand on God for thee." I remember thinking this was a pretty weird, bold way to express their patriotism.
Citizen Rules
11-17-16, 02:11 PM
Guap you claimed I insulted you, I did nothing of the sort. You misunderstood my statement, which was factual, not a personal attack as you claim.
Originally Posted by Guaporense (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1607773#post1607773)
Most countries are more open to foreign culture than the US which is extremely closed to foreign culture...
I thought you said Japan was the most xenophobic culture. And by 'xenophobic' do you because everyone in the world doesn't love magna school girl anime as much as you do?
...By the way, thinking that people who "like anime" are "immature" is in itself deeply xenophobic as well as attacking me personally in the fashion Citizen did. But you would have understood that already so I am just wasting my time.
It's impossible for me to make any point here that people already attack me and attack me using my interest for non-American culture as a weapon. That's in itself shows how deeply xenophobic and ignorant muricans are.
Show me where I said you were immature for liking anime? You misinterpreted what I said. The style/genre of movies you like (and complain that others are 'ignorant xenophobes' because they don't enjoy them like you do) is the style: school girl themed, anime magna movies...I did NOT say the anime that you watch is for school girls, I did NOT say you have the maturity of a school girl.
I was stating the fact that you watch a style/genre of films that most people don't watch AND yet you claim Americans are xenophobes because they don't watch it.
Here I'll prove it, these are the posters from most of the movies you've entered into the HoFs. They are 'school girl themed, magna anime'...that's an apt description, not an insult.
https://myanimelist.cdn-dena.com/images/anime/12/72880.jpg
https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61AEMG0iULL._AC_UL320_SR276,320_.jpg
http://filmescult.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Nausica%C3%A4-Do-Vale-Do-Vento-1984.jpg
https://a.wattpad.com/cover/44723111-256-k877956.jpg
https://images.adrise.tv/TaKU9aStDw_99-U_EDJLvgMS4lY=/200x287/smart/img.adrise.tv/0ae6bb20-f51a-4604-bfe5-bea9d4af652a.png
http://korp.tv/uploads/posts/2016-01/thumbs/1452631577_1.jpg
Captain Steel
11-17-16, 02:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Kg2GPjN0SY
Guaporense
11-18-16, 12:12 AM
Er, not every American picture in there is white (I'm guessing you're just going off of memory, having half-skimmed it, right?). This isn't a good basis for such a sweeping statement.
Say one active user that is not white.
Are you basing this off of a few years living in one spot in the Midwest? Because this doesn't sound anything like my experience, and I don't think it sounds like the experience of many other Americans, either.
Its is a well established fact that Americans are arrogant and lack interest or information regarding the world as whole. For example, in a conference that I have been in my undergrad an American professor said that the US is a very "insular" country. While a American colleague of mine here in the US said to me: "yes, we hate foreign stuff", and he is a very well educated person as well. Niall Ferguson even said that one of the problems of the US as an world police is the lack of interest Americans have regarding global problems. So: it's a well known fact that Americans are closed to the world. I am surprised you are not familiar with this fact (perhaps you are and just disregard it as plain wrong?).
Or to put it bluntly, in Brazil this year we had a tremendous impeachment process combined with a massive economic depression. Nobidy here talked sbout it: you guys are only interested in things happening inside the borders of your little country.
Also, no American commented on Ashdoc's thread on Midi's currency reform. Americans don't find interesting anything that happens outside their little country.
Now for you to understand how an open culture is first you would need to live in other countries and then have a point of reference, since you only know the US you just cannot claim to know if the US is open or closed relative to other countries. To understand that in an open culture people consume foreign culture on a regular basis. For example, in a Brazilian political blog they made fun of Brazilian politicians by comparing them to some famous manga characters. Americans would never understand jokes like those because they are completely ignorant of anything that is not American. Only the small fraction Americans who happen to be into Japanese pop culture would understand that.
There are some other basic logic problems with the way you treat "American" culture like a monolith, and ignore that it's actually an amalgamation of many other cultures, but hey, one thing at a time. Best to start with all the small sample size issues.
A culture can be richly diverse and still be closed. American culture is pretty rich (it is lacking pretty much in comics and animation among the artistic mediums). Being so rich a culture it means that Americans don't easily feel the need to consume foreign culture. So in fact the richness and diversity of American culture contributes to the fact it's closed.
And yes the US is a tremendously closed. The fact that you are insisting in defending it as "open" without even understanding what open culture just simply shows how arrogant and uncompromising you are.
Say one active user that is not white.
Not read the rest of your post and i wont respond to it anyway because it will cause too much boring drama. To this though there is an American here who you regularly argue with who is not white; you may have even called this person a white hillbilly which is hilarious for several reasons, it's not really my place to point this person out but i think that alone shows how clueless you are.
..........
I would say something normally, but I gotta be zenlike in how I approach things now.
https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-02-2015/RXN4rc.gif
:yup: Next up is walking across rice paper.
Guaporense
11-18-16, 12:27 AM
I can understand why people get upset when they're personally attacked. What I don't get is why you classify so many straightforward comments or disagreements as "personal attacks" to begin with. Disagreements about taste are not attacks.
I never called a disagreement about taste an attack. Can you prove me wrong or not? I don't think so, using cheap internet debating tactics like that will not work.
For instance, Citizen's attack on my person here was:
I thought you said Japan was the most xenophobic culture. And by 'xenophobic' do you because everyone in the world doesn't love magna school girl anime as much as you do?
Notice how he arrogantly claims that he perfectly understands my motivations and then proceeds to claim my motivations are petty and he adds on top of that a bigoted perception of my tastes in Japanese pop culture. Obviously, that's a personal insult and also reveals a little bit of the dark side of Citizen as a person.
And why did he personally attack me? Because I was just giving a lesson of American culture and so said the US is a closed culture. He felt so offended by that that he had to attack me in such a way?
I can quote many more personal attacks on my person if you would like to. I can also quote many examples of bigoted behavior by Americans here. Japanese culture is a very good test to see if a person is a bigot actually: if he/she says something like "I don't like anime, because this stuff is ..." that person is a bigot because he/she is generalizing over an entire artistic medium of a country. It's like saying you dislike American visual culture because American movies feature men in tight costumes and have too many explosions.
The definition also appears to shrink dramatically when the situation is reversed. That has left you in the odd, untenable position of suggesting "you like anime" is an attack on your soul, whereas "your entire culture is ignorant and xenophobic" is just a neutral fact.
I did not said that "your entire culture is ignorant and xenophobic". Don't put words into my mouth. I said that the US is the most closed culture among industrialized countries. Which is a well established fact that any well cultured scholar knows.
And yes, the US is in general an a closed culture. This is a fact and I don't think it's an insult to Americans, it's like saying it's an insult to India to claim they are a poor country. No, it's a fact: India is a very poor country. Or to claim Brazil is violent and poor, yes, Brazil is violent and poor and I don't feel insulted if somebody claims that violent and poor.
Also, before I began interacting with Americans I had a much better image of Americans than I have now. Well, but the fact is that Americans are human and so their beliefs are shaped by geopolitical reality just like other people. Before, about 5-6 years ago I put Americans on a pedestal.
I understand that immature people are not able to differentiate themselves from their country and can easily feel offended, however, I did not expect a person that I regarded as mature, Citizen, to behave in such a manner. And I don't think I should restrict myself in expressing my knowledge just because some people might feel offended.
And by the way, I never felt insulted when somebody said that I "liked anime". In fact, I don't think anybody here ever said that to me. Can you find a post proving your claim? I don't think so. Although I certainly dislike to use the term "like anime" because anime is such a vast and diverse medium that it's impossible for a person to like all genres of anime.
The Gunslinger45
11-18-16, 12:42 AM
I could never leave America. That being said I would like to visit. I recently got into hockey, I would love to visit the Canadian wilderness, and I want to try authentic poutine.
Guap mate, this sites interests is definitely skewed towards American films of the last 20 years, you are not wrong, but i don't see why people like you and Zotis don't just discuss what you want to discuss with the members that are into what you are. I've said a million times despite not knowing as much as you guys i like checking out some Anime; i've even been receptive to the Magical Girl Anime that the rest of the forum seems to hate, then the live action films you like are pretty much The Canon of this site; Tarkovsky and Ozu are overtaking Kurosawa (another of your favourites) as the most talked about foreign directors.
The fact is a large portion of the members here aren't cinephiles or whatever horrendous name you want to give them, they are people with a passing interest in movies looking for a place to discuss a particular genre or even movie; Omni mentioned that he came here to discuss Force Awakens and he stuck here and actually became your closest Anime Dude. This is an English Language forum so you either have to accept that there's going to be a strong group of members here that are only here to watch and discuss American films, or you need to look elsewhere.
So yeah. I like you alot Guap and would like you to stick around i think when you want to you contribute a lot to the forum, but if you are just going to be super bitter and try to bait everybody then i'd say it would be best for you to leave.
Guap, if you leave I will find your anime butt and forcibly bring you back!
i'd say it would be best for you to leave.
After the 11th HOF reveal obviously :leo:
Also, I love that new avatar, especially now that I know the meaning behind it. :D
Also, I love that new avatar, especially now that I know the meaning behind it. :D
His profile banner is probably my favourite; meaning or no.
Say one active user that is not white.
First, this isn't how the burden of proof works: you made the initial claim, and I'm questioning not only that claim, but the means by which you've determined it. So I'd like to know what it's based in: is it, in fact, skimming the thread and just not remembering any exceptions offhand? That's how you've concluded this, right?
Second, if I can produce such a user, will you admit to being mistaken and reconsider, or will you just say "well, that's an exception" and not change your position (or approach the issue with added humility) at all?
Its is a well established fact that Americans are arrogant and lack interest or information regarding the world as whole.
That wasn't the question. This was the question:
Are you basing this off of a few years living in one spot in the Midwest?
For example, in a conference that I have been in my undergrad an American professor said that the US is a very "insular" country. While a American colleague of mine here in the US said to me: "yes, we hate foreign stuff", and he is a very well educated person as well. Niall Ferguson even said that one of the problems of the US as an world police is the lack of interest Americans have regarding global problems. So: it's a well known fact that Americans are closed to the world. I am surprised you are not familiar with this fact (perhaps you are and just disregard it as plain wrong?).
I regard it as simplistic and based on sloppy terminology. The fact that your response is mostly filled with anecdotal evidence is an example of this.
But more important is that you've already shifted the topic. I didn't dispute the idea that America is "insular." I responded to your claim that America is not really diverse because different races are all divided into their own ghettos. And I'm asking you if you're basing that off of living, for a few years, in one tiny part of the country, because it doesn't sound anything like the place where I live.
A culture can be richly diverse and still be closed. American culture is pretty rich (it is lacking pretty much in comics and animation among the artistic mediums). Being so rich a culture it means that Americans don't easily feel the need to consume foreign culture. So in fact the richness and diversity of American culture contributes to the fact it's closed.
See, now we're getting somewhere. I agree with this completely. I think American culture is both rich and insular, both closed and diverse. And my agreement should go to show just how ridiculous this next paragraph is...
And yes the US is a tremendously closed. The fact that you are insisting in defending it as "open" without even understanding what open culture just simply shows how arrogant and uncompromising you are.
Please, show me where I "insisted in defending it as 'open'"? You won't find it, because I didn't disagree with it. But you made other claims above and beyond this, and those are largely what I've disagreed with. And you've apparently decided to extrapolate that disagreement to everything, which actually makes your post the "arrogant and uncompromising" one--arrogant because it makes assumptions based on very little, and uncompromising because it assumes any disagreement should be treated as total disagreement.
I never called a disagreement about taste an attack. Can you prove me wrong or not?
Yes: just a few weeks ago, I told you that you were not being attacked, just your tastes were, and you suggested it was the same because (this is a direct quote) "you don't choose your tastes. Your tastes are part of you."
You also previously likened criticism of your favorite films as being similar to having your religion attacked. You've since admitted that was a substantial overreaction, but you were quite adamant about it at the time, so one wonders why we shouldn't conclude that all the things you're saying now won't also be admitted to be overreactions a couple of years hence.
For instance, Citizen's attack on my person here was: ... Notice how he arrogantly claims that he perfectly understands my motivations and then proceeds to claim my motivations are petty and he adds on top of that a bigoted perception of my tastes in Japanese pop culture. Obviously, that's a personal insult and also reveals a little bit of the dark side of Citizen as a person.
No, that isn't a personal insult. Notice all the extra insinuations you have to make in your summary of it: you change "claims" to "arrogantly claims" and instead of "understands" you say "perfectly understands." Where is "perfectly" coming from? And while his question was somewhat rhetorical, it was still a question.
Also, how do you reconcile this complaint with your own summary of Americans and American culture? If it's arrogant, and a personal insult, to make unflattering assumptions about other people's motives, then why do you do the same thing when discussing animation with people?
For example, there's a huge difference between saying "Americans in general are ignorant about most Japanese animation" and saying "you just don't like it because you're American." Even if the general conclusion is right, assuming it explains any specific person's thought process is the point at which it becomes insulting and prejudicial. Which you seem to understand quite well, but only when it's happening to you.
I can quote many more personal attacks on my person if you would like to.
You don't need to convince me you've been attacked. You certainly have. But most of those attacks came after you attacked someone else, and a lot of what you classify as "personal attacks" is relatively benign criticism.
I can also quote many examples of bigoted behavior by Americans here. Japanese culture is a very good test to see if a person is a bigot actually: if he/she says something like "I don't like anime, because this stuff is ..." that person is a bigot because he/she is generalizing over an entire artistic medium of a country. It's like saying you dislike American visual culture because American movies feature men in tight costumes and have too many explosions.
This is not what "bigotry" looks like, and I wouldn't call that example about American visual culture bigoted, either. Simplistic, wrong, perhaps ignorant. But "bigoted"? No.
I don't think you have a grasp on what the word "bigot" actually means, and certainly not the huge connotations it has in American culture. Nobody uses "bigoted" to describe relatively unimportant things. It is almost exclusively used to condemn people who are rejecting entire classes of people, or questioning their value as people. It is never used to describe what kind of animation they like.
Even accepting your overly sensitive definition, how would you reconcile it with your own behavior? How is it bigoted to generalize over an entire artistic medium, but not to generalize over an entire group of people?
I did not said that "your entire culture is ignorant and xenophobic". Don't put words into my mouth.
You've said the culture as a whole is, which is what I mean by "entire culture."
Also, you've only stopped just short of saying this literally, anyway. Direct quote: "Americans, are for their vast majority, xenophobic idiots. This applies certainly to the vast majority of this forum members."
I understand that immature people are not able to differentiate themselves from their country and can easily feel offended, however, I did not expect a person that I regarded as mature, Citizen, to behave in such a manner. And I don't think I should restrict myself in expressing my knowledge just because some people might feel offended.
You should probably be considerate no matter who you're expressing yourself to.
Some people are offended by criticism of the country they live in, and this can be understandable. But I don't think that's the problem here. I think the problem here is when you assume general things about America explain specific people's reactions. Being part of a generalized group isn't nice, but having that generalization used to dehumanize you as an individual is what's really bad.
Although I certainly dislike to use the term "like anime" because anime is such a vast and diverse medium that it's impossible for a person to like all genres of anime.
Yes, we've been over this before. It's a good term because it denotes several qualities that almost everyone recognizes, therefore it is a useful descriptor. That's the purpose of words: to convey ideas effectively.
I don't think there's anything special about this situation: fans of anything always have nuanced interests and always chafe at non-fans who lack that nuance. This is not unique to you, or anime. It's literally what happens any time someone very interested in something communicates with someone uninterested (or only slightly interested) in it. You're taking a normal, inevitable, relatively harmless discrepancy in interest and trying to turn it into some kind of cultural martyrdom.
Example: I like baseball. People who don't like baseball tell me it's boring. I don't find it boring at all, and my inclination is to tell them that they only find it boring because they don't understand it. But I resist this impulse, because it lacks basic human empathy, and because I am not obsessed with baseball to the point where I need to internalize their dismissal of it as a dismissal of me or my interest. This is, I think, the healthiest, most mature way to approach people with different tastes.
Guaporense
11-18-16, 11:37 PM
Guap mate, this sites interests is definitely skewed towards American films of the last 20 years, you are not wrong, but i don't see why people like you and Zotis don't just discuss what you want to discuss with the members that are into what you are. I've said a million times despite not knowing as much as you guys i like checking out some Anime; i've even been receptive to the Magical Girl Anime that the rest of the forum seems to hate,
Well now I know that nominating a magical girl film to a HoF is like brining a black person to have dinner as a guest in the house of a wizard of the KKK. :D
and the live action films you like are pretty much The Canon of this site; Tarkovsky and Ozu are overtaking Kurosawa (another of your favourites) as the most talked about foreign directors.
The fact is a large portion of the members here aren't cinephiles or whatever horrendous name you want to give them, they are people with a passing interest in movies looking for a place to discuss a particular genre or even movie; Omni mentioned that he came here to discuss Force Awakens and he stuck here and actually became your closest Anime Dude. This is an English Language forum so you either have to accept that there's going to be a strong group of members here that are only here to watch and discuss American films, or you need to look elsewhere.
So yeah. I like you alot Guap and would like you to stick around i think when you want to you contribute a lot to the forum, but if you are just going to be super bitter and try to bait everybody then i'd say it would be best for you to leave.
First, I am not being bitter, I am just articulating a fact that I know: the US is not an open culture. Now, there is nothing inherently wrong in being an open culture or not, it's just a fact: US people are not interested in the world outside of the US, that is a fact.
I was just replying to Yoda that his claim about the "US celebrates diversity" but that is just not true.
And no I don't have a problem with people here being interested in other things than I do. Although I have a problem with people that cannot tolerate different opinions and interests (and tastes) than their own.
Guaporense
11-19-16, 12:13 AM
Yes: just a few weeks ago, I told you that you were not being attacked, just your tastes were, and you suggested it was the same because (this is a direct quote) "you don't choose your tastes. Your tastes are part of you."
No I did not. You are again making stuff up. I was certainly attacked directly because people were blocking my from participation in forum activities. They were not criticizing the movies I nominated: they were abusing their power of being "moderators" and blocking me from nominating them. This is obvious and I don't understand how you cannot see it.
You also previously likened criticism of your favorite films as being similar to having your religion attacked. You've since admitted that was a substantial overreaction, but you were quite adamant about it at the time, so one wonders why we shouldn't conclude that all the things you're saying now won't also be admitted to be overreactions a couple of years hence.
I actually wasn't serious about it at the time. I was angry at that American aristocratic teenager because of his arrogant and bigoted attitude regarding Miyazaki's work.
No, that isn't a personal insult. Notice all the extra insinuations you have to make in your summary of it: you change "claims" to "arrogantly claims" and instead of "understands" you say "perfectly understands." Where is "perfectly" coming from? And while his question was somewhat rhetorical, it was still a question.
Well, the only thing left to us is to agree to disagree here.
Also, how do you reconcile this complaint with your own summary of Americans and American culture?
Because my perception of American culture was built over decades of intensive exposure to it plus years living and interacting with Americans. I think that I understand Americans really well specially because I know how the world outside is so that I can understand them in a way they can't.
If it's arrogant, and a personal insult, to make unflattering assumptions about other people's motives, then why do you do the same thing when discussing animation with people?
I don't think I do. Can you provide an example?
For example, there's a huge difference between saying "Americans in general are ignorant about most Japanese animation" and saying "you just don't like it because you're American." Even if the general conclusion is right, assuming it explains any specific person's thought process is the point at which it becomes insulting and prejudicial. Which you seem to understand quite well, but only when it's happening to you.
I never said "you just don't like it because you're American." you are putting words into my mouth again. I would never think that being American implies that one unable to like animation.
You don't need to convince me you've been attacked. You certainly have. But most of those attacks came after you attacked someone else, and a lot of what you classify as "personal attacks" is relatively benign criticism.
No they are not. They are attacks on my person because I don't share their bigoted beliefs. For example, Holden Pike in this case said the following "celebration of ethnic diversity by a glorious and open minded American":
The Aviator rules. Of course it's not a timeless masterpiece like Gunbuster or Taxi Driver but it's far above typical hollywood movies.
Gunbuster?!? Did you mean...I don't know, maybe GoodFellas? I am honestly stumped at what Gunbuster could be? You truly do have Anime on the brain. I think they have an operation to fix that, now.
That's a personal attack and also an attack on Japanese culture. It's bigoted agaist Japanese culture and against people who are interested in Japanese culture (which includes the Japanese people as well!) and completely unprovoked. And obviously I did not attack Holden Pike, yet he decided to attack me for no reason other than his bigotry.
I don't think you have a grasp on what the word "bigot" actually means and certainly not the huge connotations it has in American culture. Nobody uses "bigoted" to describe relatively unimportant things. It is almost exclusively used to condemn people who are rejecting entire classes of people, or questioning their value as people. It is never used to describe what kind of animation they like.
Again you are being arrogant. I understand the meaning perfectly and yes it perfectly describes, for example, Holden Pike's attack above.
Bigot means:
"The English noun bigot is a term used to describe a prejudiced or closed-minded person, especially one who is intolerant or hostile towards different social groups (e.g. racial or religious groups), and especially one whose own beliefs are perceived as unreasonable or excessively narrow-minded, superstitious, or hypocritical.[1]"
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry
The Japanese people, by the way, are an ethnic group and a culture:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_people
And the term "anime" means "animation made by the Japanese people".
When you say "I don't like anime" you are actually saying "I don't like animation made by the Japanese people". That is racist: it consists of stereotyping, discriminating and prejudice against animation that it's made by Japanese people. QED
So it's bigoted to make generations regarding anime. Also, part of definition of bigotry: "superstitious" beliefs regarding anime also arose here from that funny user 90's Ace's opinion regarding "anime" when he described it anime fans in similar ways that people described witches in the 16th and 17th century. I conclude that the term bigotry characterizes perfectly the American perception of the animation made by the Japanese people.
And no no no, "anime" is not "a kind" of animation the term anime means all animation made by the Japanese people! Saying anime is "a kind" of animation is like saying that Europeans are "a kind:" of people.
Therefore, saying you don't like "anime" is the same as saying you don't like "movies made by European (that is, white) people". This is as bigoted as saying that "I don't like talking to black people". So, no your are just plain wrong here, completely wrong.
Even accepting your overly sensitive definition, how would you reconcile it with your own behavior? How is it bigoted to generalize over an entire artistic medium, but not to generalize over an entire group of people?
I am not generalizing, I am describing a well established fact: it's not polemic to claim that the US has a very closed and provincial culture.
Also, you've only stopped just short of saying this literally, anyway. Direct quote: "Americans, are for their vast majority, xenophobic idiots. This applies certainly to the vast majority of this forum members."
This was my PM to you not anything I posted on the forum. And yes, it's true because the vast majority of the world's population are idiots and the vast majority of Americans are scared of foreign culture.
Yes, we've been over this before. It's a good term because it denotes several qualities that almost everyone recognizes, therefore it is a useful descriptor. That's the purpose of words: to convey ideas effectively.
So you just ignore me completely again and just repeat your bigoted perception again. No, "anime" is not a good term because it makes people think that "animation made by the Japanese" is a "kind of animation", when it refers to ANY animation made by the Japanese. So no, you are just plain wrong: "anime" is not a useful descriptor at all and you are being tremendously arrogant talking about a field you are completely ignorant about.
I don't think there's anything special about this situation: fans of anything always have nuanced interests and always chafe at non-fans who lack that nuance. This is not unique to you, or anime. It's literally what happens any time someone very interested in something communicates with someone uninterested (or only slightly interested) in it. You're taking a normal, inevitable, relatively harmless discrepancy in interest and trying to turn it into some kind of cultural martyrdom.
No because people who are not interested in American movies don't insult people who are interested in American movies just because they are. Like Holden Pike did in my direct quote.
Example: I like baseball. People who don't like baseball tell me it's boring. I don't find it boring at all, and my inclination is to tell them that they only find it boring because they don't understand it. But I resist this impulse, because it lacks basic human empathy, and because I am not obsessed with baseball to the point where I need to internalize their dismissal of it as a dismissal of me or my interest. This is, I think, the healthiest, most mature way to approach people with different tastes.
No. Your analogy is invalid because baseball has not ethnic element in it's name!
If you invented a name "Whiteball" for baseball played by white players, now that would be close to the meaning of the term "Anime". Then people could say "I don't like "whiteball" only normal baseball (that is, not played by white people)". Now what do you think about that?
If someone says "I don't like anime", that means "I don't like animation made by the Japanese people", and obviously that's bigotry. It's the same as saying "I don't like baseball played by white people". It's not about "baseball", it's about "white people", when people talk about liking or disliking "anime" they are not talking about "animation" they are talking about the fact it is freaking Japanese for gods sake!
The use of the term "anime" as it is used by Westerners is like calling all music made by white people "whitemu" and then saying that "I listen to 50 cent and that I don't like listening to Eminem" because I don't like "whitemu".
Well, now I should call all movies made by white people "cinehite" and then ask people if they wouldn't be interested in a "cinehite" but only "normal movies" directed by native americans, africans and asians.
So, in conclusion anime is obviously a bigoted term.
It's a term used in reference of an ethnic group and a civilization to refer to all animated works of art produced by that civilization and is taken by some Western people to mean "a kind of animation" as if the Japanese people were only capable of producing "a kind" of animation. That's insulting and arrogant to the core, specially in regards to a culture that completely dominates the art form in the world.
Guaporense
11-19-16, 12:15 AM
Please, show me where I "insisted in defending it as 'open'"? You won't find it, because I didn't disagree with it.
I see so "America celebrates diversity" but it is not open. :D I guess I mistook your use of "celebrate diversity" to also include the celebration of non-domestic cultural elements instead of your original intention of it meaning "A country that celebrates "diversity": the "diversity" of American culture". :D
Also, by diversity you obviously meant the diversity of genres of stuff produced by the American cultural industry not actual cultural diversity of different ethnic groups since the US is still essentially a Germanic country.
No I did not. You are again making stuff up.
I just gave you a direct quote. When I explained the difference between a person and their tastes, you argued there was no difference.
They were not criticizing the movies I nominated: they were abusing their power of being "moderators" and blocking me from nominating them. This is obvious and I don't understand how you cannot see it.
Simple: because they gave a perfectly reasonable explanation (you nominated a film in the middle of a series, and not something standalone). And if it was "obvious," why did jal90, who is not some "xenophobic redneck" ignorant of anime, agree with them (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1601279#post1601279)?
I actually wasn't serious about it at the time. I was angry at that American aristocratic teenager because of his arrogant and bigoted attitude regarding Miyazaki's work.
Except:
1) You said it to me, personally, and not to him.
2) When I mentioned this just a couple of weeks ago, you didn't say "that wasn't serious." You said (another direct quote): "I agree that was immature."
Because my perception of American culture was built over decades of intensive exposure to it plus years living and interacting with Americans. I think that I understand Americans really well specially because I know how the world outside is so that I can understand them in a way they can't.
Exactly! You think your bigotry doesn't count because you think it's correct. All bigots think this. If I ask someone why a minority race is inferior in some way, they'll always have reasons. They might even have anecdotal evidence (maybe even a lot of it). But that doesn't explain or justify their application of it to individuals.
Also, I'll ask for a third time: is this being based on a few years of living in one part of the country?
I don't think I do. Can you provide an example?
Wait, you're disputing the idea that, when people have criticized anime to you, you've ascribed it to their being American? :skeptical:
If so, I'll be happy to gather examples, but I want some kind of assurance you'll admit otherwise when I do. I'm not going to go off and do a bunch of work only to have you brush it off as irrelevant, or say "I actually was not serious about it at the time."
I never said "you just don't like it because you're American." you are putting words into my mouth again. I would never think that being American implies that one unable to like animation.
But you have implied it explains when someone doesn't like it. I see a lot of hedging in the language that you might use to disingenuously claim otherwise, like when someone says they don't like a narrative and you say "some people..." (emphasis added) "...might have difficulty digesting a narrative that's different and more complex than typical Hollywood movies I guess."
Bigot means:
"The English noun bigot is a term used to describe a prejudiced or closed-minded person, especially one who is intolerant or hostile towards different social groups (e.g. racial or religious groups), and especially one whose own beliefs are perceived as unreasonable or excessively narrow-minded, superstitious, or hypocritical.[1]"
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry
The Japanese people, by the way, are an ethnic group and a culture:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_people
And the term "anime" means "animation made by the Japanese people".
When you say "I don't like anime" you are actually saying "I don't like animation made by the Japanese people". That is racist: it consists of stereotyping, discriminating and prejudice against animation that it's made by Japanese people. QED
Notice the term you didn't link to (from the same source): Anime (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime). There, you'll find this:
"In English, anime (/ˈ鎛əˌmeɪ/) is more restrictively used to denote a "Japanese-style animated film or television entertainment" or as "a style of animation created in Japan".
In other words: not just a term for animation made by a group of people, but for a style common to that group of people. And there is nothing bigoted about not liking a style.
By the way, even if this definition were not listed, it should be obvious that this is how people talking to you were using it. You can tell quite easily from context that they don't care who made it, they just don't like the aesthetic tropes they tend to see in it. So even without being literally wrong, you'd still be calling people "bigots" for merely using a word incorrectly (or just loosely), which is absurd. That's what people do when they're going out of their way to take offense. Or when they're just really mad people don't have the same tastes and are trying to find ways to give their opinion more force.
This was my PM to you not anything I posted on the forum.
So? It describes your beliefs.
So you just ignore me completely again and just repeat your bigoted perception again. No, "anime" is not a good term because it makes people think that "animation made by the Japanese" is a "kind of animation", when it refers to ANY animation made by the Japanese. So no, you are just plain wrong: "anime" is not a useful descriptor at all and you are being tremendously arrogant talking about a field you are completely ignorant about.
I don't think you understand what we're talking about. Words are useful when they convey ideas. When people say "anime," almost everyone on this forum thinks of an aesthetic style. Therefore, it's a useful word for describing that style. That's it. The fact that you use the word differently is irrelevant for this particular point.
Also, notice that you've now extended this broken logic even further: apparently I'm "bigoted" for even thinking the word might mean different things to different people! That's a remarkable claim.
No. Your analogy is invalid because baseball has not ethnic element in it's name!
If you invented a name "Whiteball" for baseball played by white players, now that would be close to the meaning of the term "Anime". Then people could say "I don't like "whiteball" only normal baseball (that is, not played by white people)". Now what do you think about that?
That's a terrible example, for one very obvious reason: the "ethnic element" you mention is not in the name "anime." It's not "Japanimation." It's just a word in Japanese, so the equivalent for baseball would be "b閕sbol," which is baseball in Spanish. And if someone said they found "b閕sbol boring," I wouldn't be offended or upset at all, and I certainly wouldn't think they were bigots.
If someone says "I don't like anime", that means "I don't like animation made by the Japanese people", and obviously that's bigotry.
See above: in the context of the discussions you've had about anime, what indication other than the use of that word have they ever given you that they were criticizing the entire Japanese people? Virtually none, right? That's because they were using the word to describe an aesthetic.
You must know this. You must realize that's what they mean. Which means you're deliberately assuming they're using your definition (knowing they aren't), and then calling them bigoted for that definition (which they aren't using). That's nuts, even before we get to the part where the word has different connotations to English-speakers, as established above.
I see so "America celebrates diversity" but it is not open. :D I guess I mistook your use of "celebrate diversity" to also include the celebration of non-domestic cultural elements instead of your original intention of it meaning "A country that celebrates "diversity": the "diversity" of American culture". :D
1) Where did I say it celebrates diversity? Sounds like you're misremembering my initial post.
2) Being diverse and being closed are not mutually exclusive. You know how I know this? Because you said so yourself, literally two posts ago:
A culture can be richly diverse and still be closed. American culture is pretty rich (it is lacking pretty much in comics and animation among the artistic mediums). Being so rich a culture it means that Americans don't easily feel the need to consume foreign culture. So in fact the richness and diversity of American culture contributes to the fact it's closed.
Simple: because they gave a perfectly reasonable explanation (you nominated a film in the middle of a series, and not something standalone). And if it was "obvious," why did jal90, who is not some "xenophobic redneck" ignorant of anime, agree with them?
Just want to add that was after Guap had tried to nominate a tv show which made everybody believe he was trying to troll us, since in an earlier HOF he nominated a tv show and it caused loads of drama. He seemed desperate to make it as awkward as possible, no one else had any trouble nominating and he has probably seen more animated films than any of us.
Mr Minio
11-20-16, 01:29 PM
Say one active user that is not white. You all just don't get Guap's sense of humour! Yoda's green!
Also, Miss Vicky isn't white, off the top of my head. Mack isn't either, though she pops in and out. We'd find plenty more if we actually scoured the thread, but I'm not sure what the point would be, since the response would surely be to write them off as exceptions.
This is sad. If someone thinks MoFo is a place for racial tension, bigotry, and strife then Id LOVE to show someone from the NAACP this website and then them call that accuser ...what they really are.
Just sayen' :laugh:
Just want to throw out what Cricket said after seeing my avatar the other day :D
I knew you were a brother!
Mr Minio
11-20-16, 02:22 PM
Well, Guap, I think you're mixing up personal preferences with racism. If I say that (in my opinion) black people are better jazz players than white people, it doesn't mean I'm racist against white people. It only means that I enjoy jazz played by blacks more. If I say that I find Asian women way more attractive than black women, it doesn't mean I think black women are subhumans and only deserve a gas chamber. If somebody says he dislikes anime, it doesn't mean he he hates Japanese culture (or people as you're wrongly trying to prove). It simply means he doesn't like it.
The alleged 'personal' attacks you're so sensitive to are mainly opinions made on films you love. Only a couple of these were jokes, that you would've understood, if you weren't so touchy.
Yes, most Americans indeed are ignorant, but so are Japanese, Brazilians and Poles. The majority of world consists of ignorant and/or stupid people, but it doesn't mean that every one citizen of any of these countries is ignorant. Generalization can be pretty painful for people, who don't fit the "stereotype".
And by now I'm not really sure if you're serious or just trolling, because your posts in several threads would suggest it's the latter. But what do I know, I'm just a puny Hollywood drone.
Citizen Rules
11-20-16, 02:37 PM
Oh...you guys, give a guap a break:p You just don't understand...here this will explain Guap-ism...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0X3CLJVMJU
Captain Steel
11-20-16, 04:47 PM
Also, Miss Vicky isn't white, off the top of my head. Mack isn't either, though she pops in and out. We'd find plenty more if we actually scoured the thread, but I'm not sure what the point would be, since the response would surely be to write them off as exceptions.
I'm only part white... on the inside I'm red, white and blue! ;)
Mr Minio
11-20-16, 05:55 PM
on the inside I'm red That's enough for Mr. McCarthy. Mr. McCarthy!
Its funny, I made this thread as kneejerk reaction to the election, but for comedies sake I shouldve said Mexico instead. It would be much cheaper too. :yup:
Guaporense
11-21-16, 03:39 AM
I just gave you a direct quote. When I explained the difference between a person and their tastes, you argued there was no difference.
No I didn't say that: for the 100th time, STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH,
A persons tastes are a part of a person but not the whole of a person. They reflect a person's culture and personality. For instance, you can deduce that if a persons top 100 favorite movies only contains Hollywood movies that person is either:
1 - Not very knowledgeable about movies.
2 - American, Canadian or British.
Also, a person's taste in terms of genres reflect that person's personality. A person that likes crime movies a lot is usually very different from a person that likes science fiction movies. The first type tends to be more down to earth, more practical and be more close minded while the second tends to have more open ideas about the world.
Simple: because they gave a perfectly reasonable explanation (you nominated a film in the middle of a series, and not something standalone). And if it was "obvious," why did jal90, who is not some "xenophobic redneck" ignorant of anime, agree with them (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1601279#post1601279)?
Thing is: he ACCEPTED another sequel: Madagascar 2. So that excuse is completely invalid: if they rejected my nomination for "technical" grounds he would have rejected Madagascar 2. Therefore the "technical" argument is moot.
Also, Jal90 did not watch anything related to Nanoha so it's not like he knew what he was talking about. His justification was that he didn't want to watch a movie adaptation of a series he was planning to watch, which is as valid as claiming you cannot nominate The Godfather because you want to read the book.
And later I nominated a THIRD movie and he just discarded it. That's tremendously disrespectful.
Wait, you're disputing the idea that, when people have criticized anime to you, you've ascribed it to their being American? :skeptical:
Precisely, because Anglo-Americans are the ones who invented a term to describe Japanese animation. Other people just don't have such a term so they cannot "criticize anime" because "anime" does not exist for them. For me "anime" does not exist.
But you have implied it explains when someone doesn't like it. I see a lot of hedging in the language that you might use to disingenuously claim otherwise, like when someone says they don't like a narrative and you say "some people..." (emphasis added) "...might have difficulty digesting a narrative that's different and more complex than typical Hollywood movies I guess."
True that. Many people here have very narrow ideas of what a movie is supposed to be and then when the movie fails to satisfy they prejudiced notions of what a movie is supposed to be they don't like it.
Notice the term you didn't link to (from the same source): Anime (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime). There, you'll find this:
"In English, anime (/ˈ鎛əˌmeɪ/) is more restrictively used to denote a "Japanese-style animated film or television entertainment" or as "a style of animation created in Japan".
In other words: not just a term for animation made by a group of people, but for a style common to that group of people. And there is nothing bigoted about not liking a style.
Which "style" you speak about?
This is "anime"?
http://static.zerochan.net/Hidamari.Sketch.full.513329.jpg
Then, obviously, this is not:
http://moarpowah.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Ping-Pong-Smile-serves.jpg
Neither is this:
http://static.srcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/spirited-away-cover.jpg
Or this:
http://static.zerochan.net/Mugen.(Samurai.Champloo).full.631910.jpg
Or this:
http://www.japanupdate.com/img/2015/06/Sazae1.jpg
Or this:
http://pics.filmaffinity.com/Kaiba_TV_Series-242449809-large.jpg
Or this:
https://thenullset.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/doremi-hyouge-mono-28-ddf13bdf-mkv_snapshot_17-28_2013-05-01_19-41-15.jpg
Or this:
https://www.chewbox.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/ninja_scroll_review_04.jpg
Or this:
https://pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/ghost-in-the-shell.jpg
So, that's 9 styles. Which one of these 9 is your so called "anime"? If 1 is "anime" the other 8 are not "anime". Or maybe it refers to another style than these 9?
So clearly, 80-90% of Japan's animation is not "anime", given any style you might choose to call "anime". Neither is 90% of my favorite animation is "anime" according to any style that might fit that "definition".
Thing is, nobody who is serious about animation uses "anime" to mean a style because it's bigotry to think that Japan's animation is all the same anyway. There is no such thing "anime style" which comes as obvious to a person who is not ignorant about animation.
So tell me, please, which one of these 9 styles (or another style) is the style people here use to describe "anime"?
Because from people's reactions here they appear to use "anime" to mean "any style of drawing portraying females with exaggerated facial features." Sometimes they use the term "anime" to mean "animated TV show featuring fantasy and action".
By the way, even if this definition were not listed, it should be obvious that this is how people talking to you were using it.
How is that obvious? It's obvious to me that there is no such thing as "anime style" unless you pick one of the dozens of styles used in Japan (excluding all others). There isn't actually a typical or common style to Japanese animation.
You can tell quite easily from context that they don't care who made it, they just don't like the aesthetic tropes they tend to see in it. So even without being literally wrong, you'd still be calling people "bigots" for merely using a word incorrectly (or just loosely), which is absurd. That's what people do when they're going out of their way to take offense. Or when they're just really mad people don't have the same tastes and are trying to find ways to give their opinion more force.
I don't think you understand what we're talking about. Words are useful when they convey ideas. When people say "anime," almost everyone on this forum thinks of an aesthetic style. Therefore, it's a useful word for describing that style. That's it. The fact that you use the word differently is irrelevant for this particular point.
Not true. In this forum the term anime is used to means all animation made by the Japanese people. When people here say they dislike anime they are saying they dislike all animation made by the yellow Japanese and that they only like animation made by white people. Although I only remember 1 person here saying that he disliked anime and he made that in explicit reference to ALL Japanese animation.
Of course, since most people here are completely clueless about Japanese comics and animation they think everything these yellow people draw looks the same so they think that there is such an "anime style", which is, again, bigotry.
Thinking that all Japanese animation follows the same style is like thinking that all Jewish people think in the same way.
See above: in the context of the discussions you've had about anime, what indication other than the use of that word have they ever given you that they were criticizing the entire Japanese people? Virtually none, right? That's because they were using the word to describe an aesthetic.
An aesthetic that changes for every single case apparently. :D
You must know this. You must realize that's what they mean. Which means you're deliberately assuming they're using your definition (knowing they aren't), and then calling them bigoted for that definition (which they aren't using). That's nuts, even before we get to the part where the word has different connotations to English-speakers, as established above.
Of course, I know now that most people here think that all Japanese animation, that is, all animation not made by white people (since nobody here ever watches anything animated from Korea, China or other non-white countries anyway), looks exactly the same. They even claim that Miyazaki's work looks exactly the same as Satoshi Kon, since it's all "anime" and "anime" is a "style", right?
I can only conclude that everybody in this forum must be blind to not perceive the difference between the style used in Miyazaki's films and in Kon's films.
Or actually, understand that the fact that the concept of all Japanese comics and animation being ONE style is in itself deeply racist and ignorant.
Thing is, there is really no such thing as "anime" as an style (as I clearly demonstrated 9 different styles in the 15 minutes while writing this and I can demonstrate many more). The word's only actual effective use and meaning refers to the ethnic group: Japanese and that is the effective meaning they used. For example: Holden Pike never watched "Gunbuster" he only knew it was Japanese and was animated and he called it "anime". Also by associating "anime" with me and therefore my favorite works of animation, my favorite lists which contains many styles, he obviously was using the term in it's ethnic sense and not in it's "style sense" (WTF that might mean).
Or when Miss Vicky said back in 2012 that they should just block "Japanese animation" (not "anime") from being nominated in the HoF. That's ethnic discrimination in the face.
This discussion is a waste of my time: your objective is not understand anything, your objective is simple "refutation".
Also, can you ever find a single EXAMPLE of a person using ANIME to mean a style? I don't think there ever was a case in this forum when a person used "ANIME" to mean a "single style".
1) Gunslinger use of the term just now in the Ghost in the Shell thread: "Dragonball, Avatar and GitS" are "anime", which are 3 styles. He used the term to mean "animation that is not comedic".
2) Omnizoa use of the term "anime" is of ALL Japanese animation, given the high variety of styles in his thread.
3) Zotis use of the term "anime" if of ALL Japanese animation again.
4) When you talk to me about "anime" you are obviously talking about ALL Japanese animation.
5) When some user whose name I don't recall said back in 2012 he "dislikes anime" he was saying he dislikes "all Japanese animation".
Anyway, you are being silly here it's rather obvious that you are trying to defend the indefensible: you are defending ethnic discrimination by your fellow Anglo-Americans against other ethnic groups and you are sure that they are not discriminating anything.
Guaporense
11-21-16, 04:28 AM
Its funny, I made this thread as kneejerk reaction to the election, but for comedies sake I shouldve said Mexico instead. It would be much cheaper too. :yup:
Thing is, Trump is a proof of how deeply racism is America. You have clearly a man who says "he is going to deport millions of these Mexican rapists" out your "our country" and build a wall isolating the "white Germanic America" from the "barbarian half-white-half-aztec Mexico". He promised to cut imports and manufacturing things inside the US as well, which is also a form of "economic xenophobia".
So many of the people who voted for Trump want to see the US isolating itself from the world, they are deeply xenophobic and bigoted people who don't "like" people who speak a language different than they do and who don't "like" people who look different than they do and they don't "like" animation that is made in different "style" than the animation that the fellow Germanic white Americans make (since if one thing can be used to refer to "anime style" is the fact that none of the dozens of comic art styles used in Japan looks exactly the same as an American comic or cartoon art style).
Actually, it's pretty easy to guess that people who "dislike anime" tend to be conservative and vote Republican while the animation fans would tend to vote democrat or libertarian.
Are you even aware that the Godfather of Manga and Anime, Tezuka, was greatly influenced by Walt Disney and Max Fleischer? Since they are both American animators, does that make Tezuka a racist? Because by your ignorant definitions of racist on this board, it sure sounds like it would.
Maybe I'm around a bunch of racists in the tournament thread I'm playing in. They voted out my SHINee nomination in one turn. My daughter loves those guys, so a young girl from our street called her a racist. She was called a racist, because she has a crush on a few Korean boys. I said yeah, cause you hate all us whities. It's completely ignorant, just like this. Some people simply don't like it. It doesn't get any deeper than that. Yeah, there are SOME racists in life, but you are way out of line, calling tons of people racist, simply because they don't care for this. When was the last time you studied a subject that didn't interest you? I would assume you were in school, the last time that happened. See, we are out of school, and no longer forced to study topics that don't interest us. That doesn't have anything to do with racism, and you seriously need to stop insulting our entire Country.
Guaporense
11-21-16, 04:33 AM
I am white by the way.
You clearly did not understand my point above: "disliking animation because it is made in Japan" is clearly racism against the Japanese people. It's the same as saying that you "dislike a movie that was directed by a white person because that person is white".
This is obvious and there is no way to negotiate that besides admitting that it IS racism!
And if you like for me to stop "insulting" your country you need to ask for Yoda to ban me. I don't think, however, that I am insulting the US by just explaining that indeed, racism is a deep problem in the US: the word "racism" was invented in the US by the way.
Racism in Anglo-Saxon America comes from the British who were much more discriminating than the Portuguese and Spanish, the latter did not care about the color of the skin of the colonists (and they had kids with everybody, that's why most Latin Americans are mixed while most Anglo Saxon Americans are white) while the British managed to maintain a clear white lineage through centuries. :eek: I am white due to accident actually because most of my cousins are not white.
For example: Holden Pike never watched "Gunbuster" he only knew it was Japanese and was animated and he called it "anime". Also by associating "anime" with me and therefore my favorite works of animation, my favorite lists which contains many styles, he obviously was using the term in it's ethnic sense and not in it's "style sense" (WTF that might mean).
Actually, it's pretty easy to guess that people who "dislike anime" tend to be conservative and vote Republican while the animation fans would tend to vote democrat or libertarian.
Holden's a Democrat.
Guaporense
11-21-16, 04:39 AM
Holden's a Democrat.
I said "tend" not "always", read more carefully. Also, I am not sure Holden actually thinks he "dislikes anime" because he had Akira in his top 25 animations for the HoF.
I just noticed that you've added a bunch to your old posts.
I am white by the way.
:eek: I am white due to accident actually because most of my cousins are not white.
OK, I will add this in. What do you mean that you are white by accident? Also, yes, I've seen your picture. Don't you remember that? I complemented you. You seemed so damn sweet. Now you act like you hate this entire board and all of America.
You clearly did not understand my point above: "disliking animation because it is made in Japan" is clearly racism against the Japanese people. This is obvious and there is no way to negotiate that.
I get your point. You aren't getting my point. I said they simply don't like it. You are the one saying that they don't like it, because it's from Japan. Make me a list of member's names, with their quotes, on every member here that has said they hate Anime, simply because it is made in Japan. Don't talk around this. Just go get the quotes. That's what you keep saying. This board is racist. Prove it by showing me that they said they hate Anime, because it's from Japan.
You also added in about the word racism, and where it originated from. I read that the English word originated from the French word racisme in 1865 -1870. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/racism
I'm not really sure what you are trying to say, but it feels like you are trying to say that racism itself started in America.
I said "tend" not "always", read more carefully. Also, I am not sure Holden actually thinks he "dislikes anime" because he had Akira in his top 25 animations for the HoF.
I'm not going to worry about this, because who are we kidding . . . You seem to hate every Rep and Demo on this board. What's it matter!?!
Mr Minio
11-21-16, 08:54 AM
Following your mindset, since you dislike the "americanized" tastes of most MoFos. you're a racist.
No I didn't say that: for the 100th time, STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH
You mentioned "tastes are a part of who we are" in response to what I said about personal attacks. Why do that, if you actually agreed? The only reason to say that is if you're disagreeing. Any other interpretation involves assuming you were mentioning it for no real reason.
Thing is: he ACCEPTED another sequel: Madagascar 2. So that excuse is completely invalid: if they rejected my nomination for "technical" grounds he would have rejected Madagascar 2. Therefore the "technical" argument is moot.
...or he agrees that one is contingent on viewing the other films in the series and one isn't. Either way, it shatters the idea that this is all based on ignorance or xenophobia. Which you appear to assume almost immediately when there's a conflict, which is a lazy response that dilutes the seriousness of the charge.
True that. Many people here have very narrow ideas of what a movie is supposed to be and then when the movie fails to satisfy they prejudiced notions of what a movie is supposed to be they don't like it.
The point is, this is how you talk to people when they don't like what you do, and the fact that you don't literally say you're talking about them is not much of a defense. The fact that you say, right to their faces, "someone" instead of "you," but then describe what you think they're doing, isn't much of a smokescreen. Which means you've frequently ascribed people's disagreements to their being American, which meets your own definition of bigotry.
So, that's 9 styles. Which one of these 9 is your so called "anime"? If 1 is "anime" the other 8 are not "anime". Or maybe it refers to another style than these 9?
This doesn't matter at all. What matters is that this explains that other people are using the word differently than you, and therefore are not using it in the way that would suggest bigotry. This, again, according to a source of your own choosing.
Thing is, nobody who is serious about animation uses "anime" to mean a style because it's bigotry to think that Japan's animation is all the same anyway. There is no such thing "anime style" which comes as obvious to a person who is not ignorant about animation.
...and if you were just calling people ignorant, that might mean something. But you're not. You're calling them bigots. And that position is not defended in any way by explaining that there are different aesthetic styles or that people don't know much about them. In fact, that's more an argument the other way (see below).
Because from people's reactions here they appear to use "anime" to mean "any style of drawing portraying females with exaggerated facial features." Sometimes they use the term "anime" to mean "animated TV show featuring fantasy and action".
I'd say broader than that, but yes, something starting there is probably how most people here are using it. The important point being that they're not using it to encompass anything made by a Japanese animator.
Not true. In this forum the term anime is used to means all animation made by the Japanese people.
What on earth is this based on? Your entire argument hinges on this, yet you provide no evidence to support it.
Also, you just said, in the quote above: "...from people's reactions here they appear to use 'anime' to mean 'any style of drawing portraying females with exaggerated facial features.'" So which is it? Are the people here using it to mean all animation made by Japanese people, or the style you just described?
Notice what you're trying to do here: you're trying to claim two mutually exclusive things, so you can criticize people in mutually exclusive ways. You are simultaneously saying that people are bigoted because when they say "anime" they're talking about any Japanese animation, but they're also ignorant because when they talk about "anime" they just mean "females with exaggerated facial features." It can't be both.
Of course, since most people here are completely clueless about Japanese comics and animation they think everything these yellow people draw looks the same so they think that there is such an "anime style", which is, again, bigotry.
Thinking that all Japanese animation follows the same style is like thinking that all Jewish people think in the same way.
This is nonsense. Different cultures have different aesthetic tastes, and they are often identifiable as such. Thinking there's a "style" of anime may be incorrect (or, less incendiary, just a little simplistic), but it's not bigoted.
There's a clear difference between thinking everything from a culture is identical (which is a straw man), and thinking much art from a culture shares some aesthetic similarities. For example, despite the wide range of styles in the screenshots you posted, most people, whether fans of anime or not, would be able to identify most of them as Japanese in origin, yes? That would only be possible if they had a handle on some kind of similarity in style between them.
http://i.imgur.com/0vCPud0.jpg
Please note the very Anglo-Saxon author name. Of course he probably has white cousins and that is what has made him such a bigot.
Thing is, Trump is a proof of how deeply racism is America. You have clearly a man who says "he is going to deport millions of these Mexican rapists" out your "our country" and build a wall isolating the "white Germanic America" from the "barbarian half-white-half-aztec Mexico". He promised to cut imports and manufacturing things inside the US as well, which is also a form of "economic xenophobia".
So many of the people who voted for Trump want to see the US isolating itself from the world, they are deeply xenophobic and bigoted people who don't "like" people who speak a language different than they do and who don't "like" people who look different than they do and they don't "like" animation that is made in different "style" than the animation that the fellow Germanic white Americans make (since if one thing can be used to refer to "anime style" is the fact that none of the dozens of comic art styles used in Japan looks exactly the same as an American comic or cartoon art style).
Actually, it's pretty easy to guess that people who "dislike anime" tend to be conservative and vote Republican while the animation fans would tend to vote democrat or libertarian.
Well if you follow the election threads youd know I am not a Trump supporter. I abhor what he fuels, and that is division.
You are causing division. You are making the same mistake as the Clinton campaign and fighting it by going negative. Exposing all possible flaws, over and over again. I know, I did, I couldnt NOT find an article that showed Trump was a phony. I had to pick and choose which to post. In the end her tactics, and mine didnt help. Its not the truth which inspires people, but people, she simply wasnt approachable. Bernie would have beat him because hes more likable. What we like, our sentimentality, is what guides us.
Movie Forums is not a prejudiced website, you do not know what youre talking about. Youve been here nearly 4 years and by now absolutely should. People uninterested in animation are not bigots or prejudiced. People that like animation but are ignorant of the genres are not prejudiced. People that hate people for being different are prejudiced.
I am not trying to be funny or glib Guap, but you are coming off as more prejudiced than anyone here. To an irrational degree. Its soiling all interactions you have because "Its not what you say, but how you say it." You pointing out our lack of interest in animation is fueling that disinterest. Best to just enjoy it, and say why you do. You cant tell people to do or think anything, just tell your own thoughts, why you liked the particular film, genre. Then they will hear you. Its alot harder because it requires true patience, but its really what inspires people here.
The Gunslinger45
11-21-16, 04:43 PM
Back on topic! Here is a friendly Canadian giving you the inside scoop on moving to Canada.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIH-J3uLN3E&list=PL2HWRRSziC_EC78epg_wUCtI2ijN2yC-K&index=11
Miss Vicky
11-21-16, 05:53 PM
Say one active user that is not white.
Me (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1606759#post1606759).
Or when Miss Vicky said back in 2012 that they should just block "Japanese animation" (not "anime") from being nominated in the HoF. That's ethnic discrimination in the face.
Show me the direct quote for this.
ETA: I tried searching using a few different parameters and found nothing. I didn't even start participating in the Hall of Fame until 2014 (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1172779#post1172779), so I think you may be mistaking me for someone else.
Miss Vicky
11-21-16, 05:56 PM
Also Funny Face is not white, though I don't know if she would fit your definition of "active" since she's not online that much.
Gatsby isn't white either.
Guaporense
11-22-16, 07:19 PM
OK, I will add this in. What do you mean that you are white by accident?
In Brazil most people are mixed, it's rare for people to be white.
Also, yes, I've seen your picture. Don't you remember that? I complemented you. You seemed so damn sweet. Now you act like you hate this entire board and all of America.
I don't "hate this board" I don't "hate America", but you guys are surely trying hard to be hated.
I get your point. You aren't getting my point. I said they simply don't like it. You are the one saying that they don't like it, because it's from Japan.
Bod never had any black friends, Bob never talks to blacks, Bob never listens to any music by black musicians or read any book by a black author.
But, Bob is not racist he just doesn't like them, these black people.
Just conceiving that someone might "dislike anime" is already racist. It's ANIMATION, if you don't like ANIMATION you don't like Japanese animation if you like Japanese animation you like animation. That's it.
You are conceiving in the possibility that a person might dislike an animation just because it's Japanese. It's like saying someone dislikes Jews or dislikes blacks because they are Jews or blacks.
You already said here that you dislike anime and thinks people who like anime are immature.
It's like saying "I don't like these white-people's movies and people who like them are immature".
So you already proved you are racist and you also insulted people who like animation.
[quote]That's what you keep saying. This board is racist. Prove it by showing me that they said they hate Anime, because it's from Japan.
I never claimed this board is racist. However, some people here indeed are.
Now, I think a person has the right to be racist. That's part of a person's freedom of though. I don't think that's nice or correct, though.
I'm not really sure what you are trying to say, but it feels like you are trying to say that racism itself started in America.
Well, America is indeed one of the most racist societies in the planet.
So should we all just ignore the fact that most of the people you claim are racist are in the Animation HOF where 3 other Anime Films have been nominated and they've all had good receptions? The Anime Films that have got the harshest receptions here are ones you've nominated that have been either Magical Girl Anime or K-On which is about a teenage girl band i believe. Ghibli, Kon, Shinkai, Night On The Galactic Railroad, Wolf Children, etc, have had pretty good receptions here for the most part. I think it is more a problem with the specific type of Anime films you watch not being well recieved here, and i think it has led to some ignorant comments sometimes but mostly because you have a terrible way of getting a point across. It often sounds more like a lecture on why we should have liked it. Basically most of the hostility towards Anime here stems from you, must be a coincidence.
Miss Vicky
11-22-16, 07:33 PM
I'm still waiting on the direct quote from 2012 where I allegedly said that Japanese animation should be banned from the HOF, even though I didn't join my first HOF until 2014.
Miss Vicky
11-22-16, 10:17 PM
I've been informed by Guap that I'm on his Ignore list. How convenient that when I ask him to support his baseless accusations, he claims he "can't read" my post. :rolleyes:
Thats so messed up! Youre japanese ancestory, probably the most non-white person here, hes angry at whitey, and puts you on Ignore?! wtf!? :lol: I cant even think of an analogy for that.
Edit in - Oh yeah and ashdoc
but you guys are surely trying hard to be hated.
I've never had to try. It's just a gift.
I never said a single one of those statements up there that you are claiming I did. I simply asked you to prove your statement, which you can't. If you could, you wouldn't have put Miss Vicky on your blocked list. If you could, you wouldn't have done exactly what I asked you not to do. You wouldn't have blabbed on and on, while NOT posting those names and quotes I asked you for. Give it up kid. There's not a single prejudice bone in my body. Most of my friends are black. I've dated black men, and when they made me take an online test, I scored 100% black. Which is why my next question is . . . Who the **** is Bob?!?
Captain Steel
11-23-16, 11:13 PM
This turned out to be a very interesting thread (especially finding out Miss Vicky is a hot Asian chick! Does Mr. Minio know about this?) ;)
This turned out to be a very interesting thread (especially finding out Miss Vicky is a hot Asian chick! Does Mr. Minio know about this?) ;)
Of all the Asian races, Id say Phillipino girls are #1, then Japanese girls #2, and then the rest. Hawaiian girls though are probably the prettiest girls in the world. :yup: Gotta attribute the Japanese some towards that.
Captain Steel
11-23-16, 11:38 PM
Something Guap said (I think it was this...) "Racism in Anglo-Saxon America comes from the British who were much more discriminating than the Portuguese and Spanish, the latter did not care about the color of the skin of the colonists (and they had kids with everybody, that's why most Latin Americans are mixed while most Anglo Saxon Americans are white) while the British managed to maintain a clear white lineage through centuries."
...reminded me of a situation when I was out to lunch with some co-workers and the conversation turned racial. One guy there was a very young man from Nicaragua and I said something about Latinos being a "relatively young race" (relative compared to Africans, Asians or Caucasians).
My Nicaraguan friend asked what I meant by that. So I said, you know the Latino race is only about 500 years old - from when the Spaniards invaded Central & South America and intermingled with the Native Americans, creating the peoples we now call "Latinos"?
He got all offended and asked what the *bleep* I was talking about. And I said, you know - history. You know how Columbus landed in 1492? He was on a mission for Spain? Then the Spanish, the Conquistadors came? They invaded Central America? Brought disease, slaughtered natives, raped and pillaged? Forced their language and religion on the native peoples?
The guy just kept shaking his head and asked where I was getting all this from. So again I explained - history.
He was like, "We're Latino and speak Spanish because we are descended from the Spanish." And I said, "Right! The Spanish who came to America and intermingled with the natives, which gave Latinos a distinct look... a cross between the native Americans that were already living in Central America and the Spanish... because Spaniards from Europe are not all dark skinned, dark haired and swarthy, but are basically Caucasians."
Then he asked me why I was such a racist - because only a racist would make up these kinds of lies!
Guaporense
11-24-16, 01:19 PM
So, I have a question for the Americans here: is it considered racist to say you dislike American culture?
Citizen Rules
11-24-16, 01:21 PM
So, I have a question for the Americans here: is it considered racist to say you dislike American culture? I have a question for you, is all of your crappy behavior lately another attempt by you to 'burn the bridges' and leave MoFo? Like you attempted a year ago when you chastised everyone?
http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=38136
After I decided to leave the forum I wrote that ton of offensive comments in order to force me to not post anymore because I would be scared of people's reactions. :D To put into more clearly, I decided to rant over and make everybody hate me so that I wouldn't desire to post anymore... To me, your behavior in the last week looks like a repeat of this ^
So, I have a question for the Americans here: is it considered racist to say you dislike American culture?
No, in fact I would dare to say most of us aren't happy with a a lot of aspects of it.
So, I have a question for the Americans here: is it considered racist to say you dislike American culture?
No :rolleyes:, and I think Citizens right.
Captain Steel
11-24-16, 02:14 PM
So, I have a question for the Americans here: is it considered racist to say you dislike American culture?
American isn't a race, so it's not racist to dislike it's culture.
But I have to agree with Yoda here in that you seem to paint your opinion of America based on limited locations or experiences. But the country is huge and made up of people from everywhere - granted, people tend to stick with their own kind (and thus the ethnically isolated places you speak of), but, OTOH, there are many places that are very diverse and integrated.
I've traveled to places in this country that don't feel anything like where I come from (central NJ).
And the weird thing about where I come from is I can drive an hour in any direction and be in a wide variety of diverse places - I could be in New York City, or wide open farmland, or Camden (one of the most crime infested cities in the U.S.), I could cross the border into PA and be in Amish country, I could be on the boardwalk at the shore, or the gambling mecca of Atlantic City, I could go to the Pine Barrens (a whole different culture), I could go to the neighborhoods of the filthy rich, or I could head North East and find places that seem like they're right out of Deliverance. And that's just in one state and a couple of its neighbors.
If Guap was serious about what hes talking about he would have made a thread "How to move to Mexico and become a Mexican citizen". It is cheaper. ;)
So, I have a question for the Americans here: is it considered racist to say you dislike American culture?
No, of course not.
Guaporense
11-24-16, 06:18 PM
Captain Steel, I take from your answer that its considered ok if you are a foreigner and you say you dislike American culture as a whole.
Now I understand better how things work: globalization is not complete yet, there are cultural spheres and people from one don't "like" the culture from other spheres unless they have a specific interest.
In Brazil people who know about American movies like usually are nerds who like "foreign culture" so I always thought that people who are into American movies would be into other "nerdy" things but I understand now that since American movies are mainstream in America the people from the anglophone countries who have obsessive/serious interest with them might not be interested in other nerdy things like manga because the first is native while the other is foreign. While in Brazil both manga and Hollywood are equally foreign.
Captain Steel
11-24-16, 10:06 PM
Captain Steel, I take from your answer that its considered ok if you are a foreigner and you say you dislike American culture as a whole.
Now I understand better how things work: globalization is not complete yet, there are cultural spheres and people from one don't "like" the culture from other spheres unless they have a specific interest.
In Brazil people who know about American movies like usually are nerds who like "foreign culture" so I always thought that people who are into American movies would be into other "nerdy" things but I understand now that since American movies are mainstream in America the people from the anglophone countries who have obsessive/serious interest with them might not be interested in other nerdy things like manga because the first is native while the other is foreign. While in Brazil both manga and Hollywood are equally foreign.
The thing about America is you can say you like or dislike anything and you cannot be punished, imprisoned or silenced for it (legally speaking).
I can relate to some of the things you talk about. First, my cousin's wife is from Brazil and their kids are half American, half Brazilian. Years back I went with them to a park in their home state of Virginia for a celebration of Brazil's Independence Day (my cousin's wife had formed connections with other Brazilians in the area and this was their party). I was such an outsider as I don't speak Portuguese and most of the people there didn't speak English. Not even my little cousins wanted to hang with me as they were playing with the other Brazilian / American kids their age. (I just remember sitting alone all day, but enjoying the food!)
Secondly, I'm a long time Comic Geek (retired as I no longer buy new comics). It took a long time for comics to become "mainstream." When I was a young adult, people who read comics were looked down upon as some kinds of... well... "geeks" (weirdos who were too immature to read "real" literature and too socially inept to function with "normal" people their own age in the real world). In this sense I can relate to the way people feel who are interested in media or entertainment that is only "mainstream" within a sub-culture or which has some sort of stigma attached to it.
Guaporense
11-26-16, 02:44 PM
@CaptainSteel, one thing that's different from being into manga vis American comics is that comics are like super mainstream in Japan while comics are more of a niche thing in the US: The impact of manga/anime on Japanese culture has been as large as the impact of popular music (rock, pop, jazz, blues, rap, etc) on the Western hemisphere. So when a non-Japanese dismisses that world that is significantly different from an American dismissing a niche inside American culture.
No, of course not.
I personally consider it prejudiced to say you dislike the culture of a large country like Brazil, US or Japan.
Thats because the culture of large countries is huge and vaired so it satisfies a wide spectrum of tastes. American music ranges from symphonic metal like Kamelot to rap: one cannot just say everything is just "American culture" so I regard it as prejudiced to claim one dislikes "American culture" in same way one can claim they dislike "anime".
But I finally understand that's it's socially acceptable to be prejudiced in regards to other cultures even though it is not socially acceptable to be prejudiced in regard to people of different skin colors.
I personally consider it prejudiced to say you dislike the culture of a large country like Brazil, US or Japan. Thats because the culture of large countries is huge and vaired so it satisfies a wide spectrum of tastes.
...which means, when someone says "American culture," they either:
a) are generalizing unfairly about that culture
b) they are referring to the parts of the culture that are largely shared across those varied groups.
American states can be very different from one another (a fact that is highly relevant if your opinion of Americans is largely based only on living in a rural or urban area), but there are still things it is fair to call "American culture."
Anyway, I'm sure sometimes the explanation is a). But the important thing is that it's not always a), and it's not good to assume it is as a default position. It's better to use the more charitable, reasonable interpretation of what people say until they give you sufficient cause to think otherwise.
But I finally understand that's it's socially acceptable to be prejudiced in regards to other cultures even though it is not socially acceptable to be prejudiced in regard to people of different skin colors.
"Prejudice" literally means "pre-judge," (hence the linguistic similarity) so it's not just a synonym for disapproval. Disapproval based on skin color is automatically prejudice because someone's skin color is not indicative of their character. Disapproval of general cultural tendencies isn't inherently prejudiced because it's based on actual choices. And if you can't have negative opinions about people's choices, you really can't have negative opinions about anything.
Culture is, of course, complicated and not universal, so it's very easy to be insensitive or simplistic when talking about any culture. But being sensitive and easy to generalize about it is still different than being necessarily prejudiced, by its very nature.
Captain Steel
11-26-16, 03:24 PM
Guap - it's interesting you brought up rap because I was thinking about it also. I was thinking about it because it was a huge "niche" that literally swept through and overwhelmed popular culture (I knew that when I saw Fred and Barney rapping about "Fruity Pebbles") ;) and one I didn't like from the day I first heard it to today.
Rap is something that is as alien to my personal culture than anything from any aboriginal tribe on the other side of the world - and that is entirely by choice because I don't like Rap - I don't like the sound of it, I don't like most of its content, I don't like the ideas of the sub-culture it represents. I don't even consider it music because I define music as containing the elements of rhythm, melody and harmony. Rap certainly has rhythm but is virtually devoid of melody & harmony.
And yet, I can't deny that rap is part of American culture and has it's roots in American culture. Is this a racial thing? Not at all - I love various types of music including ragtime, jazz, blues, gospel, doo-wop, rock, soul, funk and the beautiful harmonies of native African choral music.
Yet, I'd throw Eminem in the same barrel with rappers of any other race. (Disliking rap does not equate to disliking all blacks. If that was the case then I wouldn't be listening to a zillion black singers & musicians. Just as disliking Anime does not equate to disliking all Japanese.)
My point is - disliking anything in the realm of media, arts or entertainment, doesn't mean you dislike an entire country's culture, nor an entire race's, ethnic group's, regional group's, religion's, or orientation's culture either.
Citizen Rules
11-26-16, 03:49 PM
Good post Capt...
I hate it:mad: when a person ask you "Do you like rap?" and if you say "No I don't"...then the first person spouts off, "Your a racist." I so hate that stupidity:rolleyes:, that I wish there was an invisible gas in the atmosphere that made a person poof in a cloud of smoke if they ever uttered that nonsense.
Captain Steel
11-26-16, 04:01 PM
Good post Capt...
I hate it:mad: when a person ask you "Do you like rap?" and if you say "No I don't"...then the first person spouts off, "Your a racist." I so hate that stupidity:rolleyes:, that I wish there was an invisible gas in the atmosphere that made a person poof in a cloud of smoke if they ever uttered that nonsense.
That actually happened to me at a gym I belonged to!
I complained about the radio selection - every time I went to work out it was tuned to rap, and I'm talking the hard stuff where every other word was f***. I very politely asked the manager on duty (who happened to be black) if it was possible to maybe alternate the stations once in a while. He immediately accused me of being a racist.
So I began going through the litany of black singers I liked such as Fats Domino, Jackie Wilson, Brooke Benton, Dinah Washington, Aretha Franklin, Ray Charles, the Temptations, the Supremes, Al Green, Stevie Wonder...
He stopped me and said, "What are those, your favorite cracker singers?"
I asked, "You don't know who they are? You're black and you don't know who Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder are? Come on! You're not too young to know who Stevie Wonder is!"
He said, "I don't listen to white music."
Then I told him that everyone I mentioned was black. Then he said, "I don't listen to old music - I listen to rap. So that's what we'll play here whether you racists like it or not."
I ended up quitting that gym - but not over the music disagreement - it was because the sauna broke and they said they would fix it, but never did! ;)
Citizen Rules
11-26-16, 05:35 PM
You have a lot of entertaining stories Captain:D
You have a lot of entertaining stories Captain:D
He does. :up:
Captain Steel reminds me of the movie Smoke, which was all storys being told. I liked it.
https://thisismattd.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/smoke-keitel.jpg
Captain Steel
11-26-16, 05:50 PM
You have a lot of entertaining stories Captain:D
It only means I've been alive too long. :(
Captain Steel
11-26-16, 05:55 PM
Sorry for that downer response.
I actually have entertaining stories because I look at life like a movie - and all the people characters in it, with all the drama, all the comedy, all the romance, all the excitement.
Well, not really all the excitement, I'm not that exciting or excited.
It's probably more like something between this post and my last one! ;)
Citizen Rules
11-26-16, 05:56 PM
Keep 'em coming, I enjoy reading them:p
Citizen Rules
11-26-16, 05:58 PM
Sorry for that downer response.
I actually have entertaining stories because I look at life like a movie - and all the people characters in it, with all the drama, all the comedy, all the romance, all the excitement.
Well, not really all the excitement, I'm not that exciting or excited.
It's probably more like something between this post and my last one! ;)
Seriously, I like your post:p You're an excellent writer and I know I've said that many times, cause it's true! Sometimes I'm not sure if you are writing parables or not? Especially as occasionally you stress the caveat, I swear this is true. Which then makes one wonder abut the caveat free stories:p
Seriously, I like your post:p You're an excellent writer and I know I've said that many times, cause it's true! Sometimes I'm not sure if you are writing parables or not? Especially as occasionally you stress the caveat, I swear this is true. Which then makes one wonder abut the caveat free stories:p
I agree with Rules, dont be ashamed of being able to spit out a story. Hell thats the whole point of this place. Its a gift to be able to actually, like being able to recall jokes (I never can).
We all age and die Steel, at least you paid attention. ;)
Captain Steel
11-27-16, 12:20 AM
Seriously, I like your post:p You're an excellent writer and I know I've said that many times, cause it's true! Sometimes I'm not sure if you are writing parables or not? Especially as occasionally you stress the caveat, I swear this is true. Which then makes one wonder abut the caveat free stories:p
I appreciate the kind words, Rules, from both you and Tongo.
Maybe I make the disclaimer because if you have too many good stories, people think you're like "Frizby" (Andy Devine's character on the Twilight Zone) - a tall tale teller who's stories were so outrageous and self-agrandizing that they couldn't be believed.
I don't want to say I "exaggerate" because that's too strong a word - I strive for accuracy, but I may "dramatize."
The stories are completely true, but maybe the emphasis on a certain word or phrase wasn't as perfectly timed as I make it sound. Stories don't flow in the retelling if you include how many times you stuttered, hesitated of said "uh" or "um" (know what I mean?)
I will admit that I've had the uncanny and often unwanted capacity to somehow attract the bizarre (both people & occurrences), weird, coincidental, synchronous, ironic, and strange to me. Synchronicity is one thing I desired to have - it's something I've long studied and found that the more you focus on it, the more you find it occurring - it's really a factor, I believe, that is based on observation and attention than on anything more paranormal.
And Lois? I never lie. ;)
Citizen Rules
11-27-16, 12:29 PM
I appreciate the kind words, Rules, from both you and Tongo...Captain, please don't lump me in with what Tongo said. My post were meant in a fun, good natured spirit, the type of post we usually make with each other.:p
Tongo usurped my post when he quoted me +said he agreed with me AND added a dig at you. I do NOT agree with what Tongo said...BUT unfortunately his agreeing with me and then ad libbing makes my post seem like I agreed with him, I do not.
You have a lot of entertaining stories Captain:D
Keep 'em coming, I enjoy reading them:p
Seriously, I like your post:p You're an excellent writer and I know I've said that many times, cause it's true! Sometimes I'm not sure if you are writing parables or not? Especially as occasionally you stress the caveat, I swear this is true. Which then makes one wonder abut the caveat free stories:p
_____________________________________________________
Tongo's post are of a quite different tone:
I agree with Rules, dont be ashamed of being able to spit out a story. Hell thats the whole point of this place. Its a gift to be able to actually, like being able to recall jokes (I never can).
We all age and die Steel, at least you paid attention. ;)
He does. :up:
Captain Steel reminds me of the movie Smoke, which was all storys being told. I liked it.
https://thisismattd.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/smoke-keitel.jpg
Captain, please don't lump me in with what Tongo said. My post were meant in a fun, good natured spirit, the type of post we usually make with each other.:p
Tongo usurped my post when he quoted me +said he agreed with me AND added a dig at you. I do NOT agree with what Tongo said...BUT unfortunately his agreeing with me and then ad libbing makes my post seem like I agreed with him, I do not.
_____________________________________________________
Tongo's post are of a quite different tone:
:rolleyes:
Are you kidding me?! I wasnt trying to make it look like ......I wasnt even breaking his balls!
Stop trying to stir it up CR.
Guaporense
11-28-16, 06:35 PM
"Prejudice" literally means "pre-judge," (hence the linguistic similarity) so it's not just a synonym for disapproval. Disapproval based on skin color is automatically prejudice because someone's skin color is not indicative of their character.
Thing is that statistically, a person's skin color is indeed indicative of a person's character. In the US, a black man has 8 times higher probability of being a criminal than a white man. And on average an Asian usually has 20 points of IQ more than a black. And as Captain Steel has shown, it's common for blacks to feel discriminated when someone doesn't like rap.
So ethnic groups differentiated by phenotype have certain characteristics that hold on average.
Disapproval of general cultural tendencies isn't inherently prejudiced because it's based on actual choices. And if you can't have negative opinions about people's choices, you really can't have negative opinions about anything.
So you wouldn't think that a person's opinion regarding "general cultural tendencies" of a culture he/she does not know anything about to not be prejudiced? :D
Also it's very, very hard to identify a "general cultural tendency" in a large country. When people think in terms of general cultural tendencies (such as "all Japanese comics look like "this") they are engaging in stereotyping and that's inherently prejudiced, it's the same as thinking that blacks are lazy.
Take the US, are there very clear "general cultural tendency" in the US's culture? Well I wouldn't think so. American music, for instance, contains pretty much any genre of music in existence in the whole world, if you dislike "American music" you dislike music, unless you redefine American music to mean something very restricted like "rap". Same with Japanese comics, well, even more considering Japan makes the vast majority of the comics in the world: if one dislikes "Japanese comics" one dislikes comics.
Unless you redefine manga to mean "action fantasy manga published in Shounen Jump magazine", which is most Anglophone people's idea of "anime" actually but that is as representative o "anime" as 50 Cent is representative of American music.
My point is - disliking anything in the realm of media, arts or entertainment, doesn't mean you dislike an entire country's culture, nor an entire race's, ethnic group's, regional group's, religion's, or orientation's culture either.
Of course, if you dislike a movie like Your Name (2016) that doesn't mean you hate Japan. Or even if someone says he/she is not going to watch Your Name because he/she did not like the art style used in that movie.
However, if one says he/she is not going to watch Your Name BECAUSE it's Japanese, then, I think that we have a problem: Modern Japanese visual culture is not like rap, rap is a genre, it's a clearly defined defined genre of American music with very clear characteristics (such as lack of melody and harmony you just mentioned). People here think of Japanese comics as if it were like rap but it's like American music, and it's impossible for me to conceive that someone might dislike all American music just as its absurd for me to think of someone who might dislike all Japanese comics. I don't think it's actually useful for people to use terms like "anime" and "manga" because they create artificial stereotypes that only exist in the heads of westerners.
Captain Steel
11-28-16, 10:45 PM
Guap - I thought of you last night.
Often, I'll listen to Coast to Coast on the radio while brushing my teeth before bed (probably the worst time to listen to THAT show, but that's the only time it's on). I don't know who last night's guest was or what he was talking about but at one point he said something about "American culture" and then he went on to say something like, '...if there is any such thing...' then I remember him saying verbatim... "...it's really more like an anti-culture."
When I heard that I though of your recent posts about American culture.
Unfortunately, I have no idea what the guy meant by that.
Thing is that statistically, a person's skin color is indeed indicative of a person's character. In the US, a black man has 8 times higher probability of being a criminal than a white man.
Controlling for things like income, this disparity is dramatically smaller, if not gone completely. It's primarily a function of poverty, rather than race.
And on average an Asian usually has 20 points of IQ more than a black. And as Captain Steel has shown, it's common for blacks to feel discriminated when someone doesn't like rap.
So ethnic groups differentiated by phenotype have certain characteristics that hold on average.
I chose the word "character" deliberately. It is technically true (though admittedly politically incorrect) to say that different racial groups have, in the aggregate, different physical or biological characteristics. But that's different than their character, and observation becomes prejudice at the moment you take a general tendency and presume it applies to an individual.
I find myself right in the middle of most of these discussions, because I don't think it should be at all taboo to observe and reference these tendencies, but I do think it crosses an important line to make assumptions about individuals based on them.
So you wouldn't think that a person's opinion regarding "general cultural tendencies" of a culture he/she does not know anything about to not be prejudiced? :D
If they knew literally nothing, sure, but that's almost never the case. Even someone who holds a broad, unfair generalization is tapping into some commonality. Stereotypes are often exaggerated, or unfairly applied, but they're not usually invented outright. As I pointed out earlier, even if you show me a wide variety of Japanese animation styles, nearly all of them are instantly identifiable as being Japanese, even by people who don't watch much Japanese animation. That alone proves that there's some sort of broad aesthetic through-line.
Also it's very, very hard to identify a "general cultural tendency" in a large country. When people think in terms of general cultural tendencies (such as "all Japanese comics look like "this") they are engaging in stereotyping and that's inherently prejudiced, it's the same as thinking that blacks are lazy.
Take the US, are there very clear "general cultural tendency" in the US's culture? Well I wouldn't think so. American music, for instance, contains pretty much any genre of music in existence in the whole world, if you dislike "American music" you dislike music, unless you redefine American music to mean something very restricted like "rap". Same with Japanese comics, well, even more considering Japan makes the vast majority of the comics in the world: if one dislikes "Japanese comics" one dislikes comics.
Unless you redefine manga to mean "action fantasy manga published in Shounen Jump magazine", which is most Anglophone people's idea of "anime" actually but that is as representative o "anime" as 50 Cent is representative of American music.
Aye, and I addressed this preemptively:
"Culture is, of course, complicated and not universal, so it's very easy to be insensitive or simplistic when talking about any culture. But being sensitive and easy to generalize about it is still different than being necessarily prejudiced, by its very nature."
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